The Lord thy God King is a Jealous God

The Lord thy God King is a Jealous God January 20, 2012

He will not tolerate Catholic religious liberty!

The question is not whether the Church will survive the growing hostility directed at it by the United States. The question is whether the United States will survive. To hate Christ is to love the spirit of suicide.

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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • Tim

    I heard that religious institutions will be given extra time to comply with the rulings.

    So don’t it let it be said that Obama doesn’t have compassion: he gives you moment to say goodbye to your Rights.

  • Peggy R

    This delay takes off the heat until after the election. I hope the USCCB appeals. It will be no less just a year later.

    Do not be fooled into re-electing this man. This was too hot of an issue to press in an election year. It ain’t over yet.

    • Peggy R

      Er, how about “no less unjust” or “no more just”. Sorry about that…

  • Rachel

    I think that the solution, albeit could be difficult, is obvious–civilly disobey. Honestly, that is the best thing to do. Just don’t do it. Tell the HHS to bleep off. Honestly, they have no business deciding what Catholic agencies cover and what not to cover. That is what we should be doing. Just continue what we have been doing and if they make a bigger hissy fit about it, have the cameras rolling and take it to the public, especially on youtube and any other internet outlet. Even demand to be heard on the idiot news media. Its time we are actually aggressive about this instead of just laying down and taking it which is what we have been doing too much :(.

    • Oregon Catholic

      Unfortunately, there is that pesky issue of Catholic healthcare organizations accepting state and federal monies. I think we will be forced to divest ourselves of any gov’t support or cave to the demands. Or we’ll probably see more Catholic organizations become secular, like the IL Catholic Charities adoption agency.

      • Margaret

        It might be time to let the s*** hit the fan, though. I can’t imagine how it will play out, but we collectively cannot just sigh and “compromise” on this one.

        • Oregon Catholic

          Sometimes I wonder if we have become so inextricably tangled with evil as a nation that God has no choice but to let it all come tumbling down so we can start again. I really feel like the mess is so big there is no getting out of it. We’re just marking time waiting for the final backbreaking economic straw to be placed.

          • Yeah, I’m with you there, OC. I think it will take a miracle at this point.

          • Jared

            I hope not, but…hey, what great world power lasts forever?

          • Fr. Frank

            I agree, OC. It’s too late.

            • Jared

              After seeing people make comments like “Oh, the CC is just closed minded and woman hating” and “Employers shouldn’t be thinking of just themselves,” I think y’all are right. It’s over. It would take nothing short of Divine Intervention to remove the roots of relativism and build up a foundation of morals.

    • Kevin J

      Not sure how civil disobedience would work. How are you supposed to get a health care plan without contraceptives when every health plan has to cover it now?

      I suppose a Catholic school, for example, could refuse to inform its students about the contraception coverage, but then they’d just get fined in ever-increasing amounts. And they’d get bad press if it ever became a major issue.

      Civil disobedience only works when the media is sympathetic to begin with.

  • The Deuce

    It’s almost infuriating enough to provoke me into telling Obama and his cronies to go to hell… but then I realize that it would be redundant to demand someone do something that they’re already well on their way to doing.

  • caroline

    How about if you work for a Catholic institution you have to buy your own health care. Some extra pay provided.

    The irony is that so many Catholics use contraceptives anyway. In practice this is a bishops’ issue because they have to defend the rules even if the sheep disobey them and don’t feel guilty about it either.

  • Phil

    Several thigns could be said.
    A. It is more important than ever to vote Obama out of office. For all the flaws the republican candidate will have, whoever he is will at least respect religious liberty.

    B. If this does go into effect, the only legal “protest” option-in addition to the court challenges which will be made, but may not succeed-will be for religious organizatiosn to jsut dumb their insurnave all together and pay the fine for not offering it.

    C. Perhaps things like this should make America reconsider it’s historical link between employers and insurance. Just let individuals get insurance that they pay for and follows them from job to job, and doesn’t go away if they lose their job.. But unfortunately this system would be hard to change.

    • Phil

      >just dump their insurance

    • Al

      Phil
      Your voting advice Is to practical or “linear” for us deep catholic thinkers. Nuance and over-discernment allow us to flash the appropriate badge and catholic intellectual bona fides….when in doubt ask…what would kmeic do?

      • Sal

        I’m sorry- kmeic is who?

        • Ellen

          Doug Kmeic is a prominent Catholic scholar who supported Barack Obama because he “….was sounding more Catholic than most Catholics I know.”

          Kmiec in his starry eyed worship of the Won thought that Obama’s social programs would relieve the suffering of The Poor so that the abortion rate would decline.

          Evidently Kmiec overlooked Obama’s record. The man has never seen an abortion law that he didn’t support. For his loyalty, he was named Ambassador to Malta, where he was criticized by some administration officials for spending too much time with religious duties. He resigned, but despite it all, is still a supporter of Obama.

          I wonder if this will make Kmiec wake up and take notice.

          • Oregon Catholic

            I hope so, but once you dance with the devil it’s hard to break free.

  • randy

    Was not north america made by god for the native peoples? Unless it was god,s will that they would be here for thousands of years,developing the different cultures, just to have that wiped out in a few hundred years, by god fearing people. Maybe god left north america a long time ago.

    • Jared

      Those are the only options you see? Either the Native Americans were abandoned (unloved by Love Himself) or it was His will that they were slaughtered?

    • Hezekiah Garrett

      Ugh!!!

      (Apparently it requires more characters than that to register disgust.)

      • Rosemarie

        +J.M.J+

        Randy asked similar questions on another thread (where they weren’t any more on-topic) but refused to engage in the conversation afterward. Don’t feed the troll.

  • Renny

    Before everyone gets completely crazy about seceding from the union, be aware that “Only houses of worship and other religious nonprofits that primarily employ and serve people of the same faith will be exempt. Religiously-affiliated employers who do not qualify for the exemption and are not currently offering contraceptive coverage may apply for transitional relief for a one-year period to give them time to determine how to comply with the rule.
    Twenty-eight states already require employers, including most religiously affiliated institutions, to cover contraception in their health plans. The only change is that now they must cover the full cost.” A list of which states cover what is here: http://www.guttmacher.org/statecenter/spibs/spib_ICC.pdf

    • Mark Shea

      In other words, Catholics have one year to figure out how to violate their consciences.

      Catholics: RESIST!

      • ds

        Has stuff like this happened in other countries, are you aware Mark?

        • Mark Shea

          Dunno.

    • Jared

      Primarily of the same faith? What about Catholic pregnancy resource centers???

    • Oregon Catholic

      It’s not just about paying full cost. The federal mandate significantly reduces the religious exemptions in place in some of those states.

  • Sharon

    Reny, I see that New York is on the list of states that require employers to provide contraception and some other drugs/services. In other words, do the institutions in Archbishop Dolan’s diocese already have to comply with laws similar to the HHS directives? Have they been in compliance? How are Catholic institutions in California dealing with that state’s laws?

    PS – I love the Guttmacher Institute’s motto: “Advancing sexual and reproductive health worldwide through research, policy analysis and public education.”

    They are doing a stellar job. From the Centers for Disease Control: “STDs are one of the most critical health challenges facing the nation today. CDC estimates that there are 19 million new infections every year in the United States.” Of course, the Guttmacher Institute is not promoting sexual health, it is promoting Planned Parenthood’s business model – get kids sexually active earlier and earlier, to provide PP with an ever-growing customer base for abortion and STD treatment. Sorry to get sort-of off topic.

  • freddy

    It’s time for parishes who have had to close schools due to declining enrollment and parishes without schools to look into the possibility of opening parish doctors’ offices.

    A couple of G.P.’s here, a couple of specialists there, and Catholics paying affordable monthly fees could give access to healthcare *without* insurance for Catholics and for the poor.

    • Rosemarie

      +J.M.J+

      What does it involve to open up a “free clinic”?

      • freddy

        Honestly, I have no idea.

        I just look at the success of Catholic schools and think, why can’t we have parish doctors’ offices? Eliminate the need for all but catastrophic health care insurance, and the government meddling is cut way down.

        • Peggy R

          My research of the insurance industry in the run up to the O-care law indicated that states (and now O-care) do not allow insurers to offer catastrophic a la carte, which would really resolve many economic concerns and minimize what we call market failures.

        • Hezekiah Garrett

          Somebody, somewhere, had to have already tried it, but I honestly don’t know who.

          But in both nursing school and in studying emergency medicine, textbooks ALL THE TIME refer to ‘parish nursing’ and ‘parish healthcare’ or ‘parish healthcare settings’. I assume from the context that its a more holistic approach with an emphasis on promoting good health and preventing bad. But none of my texts ever fleshed the concept out beyond these basic terms.

          Absent all kinds of red tape, I can’t imagine there’s not the manpower already sitting in the pews to readily run such an endeavor in just about any suburban parish. And surely it could be tweaked for our own needs.

  • To be honest, I can’t wrap my head around the idea that any employer is federally required to cover the full cost of a specific type of medication with no deductible or co-pay. Are any other classes of medication federally required to be covered at full cost? If so, what types? What is the logic here? I’m completely in the dark about this, as I’m still covered by my father’s insurance and haven’t had to read the fine print on this type of plan before. Could anyone explain the legal basis for such a requirement (from the perspective that the HHS believes contraception to be a common, beneficial medication)? Obviously, I have a huge problem with the religious freedom issue involved, but I feel a little lost on why such a regulation would exist in the first place.

    • There is no scientific or moral basis for the regulation. Its purely political; Planned Parenthood is one of the Obama administration’s largest backers and Obama has to deliver to his special-interest groups before the 2012 election in order to ensure their continued support. Plus this ideologically consistent for him and his administration – he’s vehemently pro-abortion and pro-central planning.

    • Oregon Catholic

      Vaccines are usually covered 100%. Many insurance co., especially HMO types, will 100% cover a lot of the recommendations for preventive screenings and care that are made by the US Preventive Services Task Force. These are research based recommendations that have a low cost/high benefit ratio for prevention of serious disease.

      I thought I had seen this agency mentioned yesterday in Sebelius’ comment but when I checked the current list of USPST recommendations there is nothing concerning contraception.

      • Oregon Catholic

        What was mentioned was the Institute of Medicine’s recommended preventive services – specifically “Clinical Preventive Services for Women: Closing the Gap”
        http://iom.edu/Reports/2011/Clinical-Preventive-Services-for-Women-Closing-the-Gaps.aspx

      • Andy, Bad Person

        Vaccines are usually covered 100%. Many insurance co., especially HMO types, will 100% cover a lot of the recommendations for preventive screenings and care that are made by the US Preventive Services Task Force.

        It’s very telling, actually, that the state wants to lump birth control in with vaccines and preventative screenings.

        It just goes further to show that these people truly do see pregnancy as a disease.

      • Thanks, Oregon Catholic. From an amoral (immoral, really), point of view, paying for birth control is certainly cheaper than paying for either abortion or a child being added to the healthcare plan. From that rather sickening perspective, I can see where the same logic that covers preventative services at 100% would seek the same for contraceptives. Still awful, of course…

  • Regarding the question of ‘has this happened anywhere else’ – the answer as far as I know is ‘no’, for the simple reason that only in America is health insurance linked to your employer. Not saying whether that’s a good or bad thing, but it is unique to America, AFAIK.

    • Sharon

      Father, changing that standard would have been a GREAT objective of health care reform. If people bought their own health insurance, we would not have the problem of people staying in jobs that are suffocating them, just so their or their child’s illness would continue to be covered by the employer’s insurance plan. Changing jobs would mean changing insurance coverage, and the new plan would most likely refuse to cover the pre-existing condition. There are also households where both parents have to work so that at least one of them gets decent insurance coverage. If coverage were not linked to employment, the couple could choose a policy and pay for it on one income. I don’t understand why the bishops didn’t push for this kind of change in health insurance coverage.

      • Sharon

        Sorry to be so unclear. I meant that, as it is now, changing jobs DOES mean changing insurance coverage, and there is a great risk that the insurance through the new job would refuse to cover the pre-existing condition. The system now does not work as well as it could, but a takeover by the government is most certainly not the answer!

  • randy

    Why would catholics claim to protect life from conception to natural death? Is this something new since the scandal? How many bishops or cardinals were fired or thrown in jail?

  • Matthew

    I know that what I am about to suggest is probably contrary to a number of other moral laws but what I would LIKE to do is: I think the Catholic Church should physically shut down every single hospital, health care clinic or other social service that She runs. Ship every patient to the local public hospital. When their system crashes in a week offer to negotiate. They need us more than we need them.
    Matthew

    • Matthew, that’s what I would like to see happen, too–not out of unconcern for those who’d be negatively affected, but to demonstrate that freedom of religion doesn’t just cover your activities in church.

      I’d say: start with the schools, so as not to disrupt hospital patient care. Close every single parochial school in America, and declare to the administration: “You have ruled that we are not a “religious employer” in our efforts to educate children. Since we see religious instruction as our primary reason to educate children, we are in conflict with this ruling. Therefore, we are shutting our schools, and will confine our religious instruction of children to classes hosted in our church building on weekends by volunteers who share our faith.”

      Just imagine the impact of every parochial school child in America showing up to register at the nearest public school…

  • caroline

    In California when the issue came up a few years ago the Church made a lot of protest and the issue was all over the Catholic press. And then it just faded away and out of our Catholic press when it became clear we lost in our appeals. So we have caved in. Our Catholic institutions continue to provide health insurance as social justice requires even though our social justice violates our sexual morality of no contraceptives. The other alternative, to conform to the ministerial exception laws, would also violate social justice. So there we are and there we will stay unless there is a mass movement of voting Catholics against artificial contraception.

    If anyone in California knows differently, please enlighten me. I have sought to get information from Catholic institutions on this and they don’t answer.

    • Mary Russell

      This is a key precedent for what’s going on now. As an NFP-only family doctor, I’ve been following this issue for years, and am puzzled about what happened in California. What reasoning did the courts use to deny the appeals? How are/were things different in California?
      What happens now? What steps will the bishops take to fight this decision?

  • caroline

    Forgot to add that , and again correct me if I’m wrong, in California employers are not required to give health insurance at all; you might have a hard time attracting employees and you might have trouble with the social justice issue but a Catholic institution does not need to offer health insurance, but then if they do, it has to conform.

    • Sharon

      Caroline, thanks for the information on the California law. I was under the impression that the bishops decided to cave on the fight, because it is a complicated matter as far as justice for employees. Again, this would be taken care of if employers were not the ones providing insurance.

      Come to think of it, it could be that all of this is a way to reach the goal of having the government provide all health insurance. When the Catholic institutions get the chance, they can stop providing health insurance and their employees will have to purchase a government plan. And we will all be contributing to others’ contraception, and sterilization, and abortion, and the government will encourage all three because, as Nancy Pelosi has admitted, they are cost saving procedures, as they leave us with fewer people left to have to provide health care for. It’s very, very sad.

  • Paul

    With the abortion debate almost won, the powers that control this country need a new issue to bifurcate the electorate. Welcome to the healthcare/contraception debate. With this new issue in play, we can safely keep folks on the reservation.

    (Am I the only one who finds a one year delay to be a bit odd.)

    The only purpose of the one year delay to ensure that this will be a major issue during the November election. It is an attempt to re-engage the conservative block that is quickly fading from civic participation. Our right to not pay for this crap is unalienable and cannot be based upon the outcome of some election every 4 years.

    Nice try, but the fire for revolution has already been lit.

  • randy

    Because of all the harm done to to the native canadians by Catholic and Christian clergy in the residential schools, Canada would be much better off to ban these so called religions.

    • Marion (Mael Muire)

      The Soviets tried to ban Christianity. The Chinese Communists did, too. They had excuses for doing so similar to yours. The banning attempts never worked out very well, though: all of their gulags, “reeducation” torture chambers, and machine guns could not suppress the faith. If you support the idea of a Canada full of gulags, torture chambers, and machine guns, but with Christianity still thriving underground, then I say, knock yourself out.

      • Dan F.

        don’t feed the troll