Believe it or not…

Believe it or not… September 14, 2012

…this was not written by me:

When Michael Voris is good, he’s very good.

Get it: Just as you do not serve the state, so you do not serve the party. Party and state exist to serve you the citizen, and the common good and when they try to turn you into a tool your human dignity requires you to fight back and assert the common good and the will of We the People. That, or your liberty is toast and your faith will be, sooner or later, lined up against the wall and shot by a Caesar who is a jealous god. Stop getting played. Put your faith first and tell your party, Dem or GOP, to knuckle under or it can go to hell for all you care.

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  • Marthe Lépine

    And I notice that they have changed their name… Mark, you are right: this was a very good talk.

  • You know it’s going to be good when Michael Voris and Mark Shea agree on something.

    I’m still waffling about voting for the Sucks Less party, mostly in the hope that it buys us some time before active persecution (the kind involving guns) is upon us and gives my sons a chance to get a bit older.

    Working hard to not wallow in despair but some days it’s tough.

  • Michael F.

    Interesting video. I think he has some reasonable and valid points. But I’m not convinced that his argument is the best and most compelling one — at least *yet*.

    A few thoughts off the top of my head.

    1) Romney doesn’t support “gay marriage”. He’s actually showed a fair amount of spine on that one, even when dealing face to face with individuals who support it.

    I think this is very important in regard to holding the line on this battle.

    2) I don’t think I would agree that the difference (Dem vs. Repub) is merely between the speed at which we’re going to hell in a hand-basket. In fact, we’re winning the pro-life battle (particularly on the issue of abortion). More and more people are openly identifying themselves as “pro-life” to the point where for the first time we are in the majority according to polls. Is it perfect? No, but by fits and starts we are increasingly winning this 40 year old war.

    3) By executive order Obama has done great harm in the area of abortion – such as rescinding the Mexico City policy which stopped us from funding and promoting abortion world-wide. Romney has already indicated that he would restore the Mexico City Policy. This is no small thing. Romney has also repeatedly stated that he would end the federal funding of Planned Parenthood – the nation’s largest abortion provider.

    4) Voris doesn’t interact with the importance of the appointment of judges – especially in this upcoming term (there are likely multiple justices who may retire). IMO, Republican appointments have generally been considerably more favorable to laws protecting unborn children than Democrat appointments (yes, there have been significant failings in this area, but I think the point stands generally). But considering how far “left” Obama’s appointments have been, it will be relatively easy for Romney to make a considerable improvement in this area over-all.

    5) Voris doesn’t interact with the impact of the “presidential pulpit”. Having a man who publicly defends the right of unborn children to live (Romney) instead of one who has even publicly defended the right to kill unborn children simply because they are a girl (Obama), should not be underestimated in the battle for hearts and minds. As Voris rightly points out, this is a long term war.

    6) Voris didn’t interact with the HHS debacle – how Obama is now directly attacking the Church. The significant difference between Obama and Romney on this issue is something that you have pointed out, Mark.

    7) Just as with slavery and even the “Cold War”, epic moral battles like this take time. We can forget the decades before Lincoln that were necessary to set the stage for the end of slavery. Sometimes we may forget the presidents who maintained our defenses and continued to put pressure on the Soviet Union. The Berlin wall didn’t fall overnight. It fell over decades. We can forget that some presidents endangered that important goal by giving too much of an ear to those who said that we should stop trying to defeat the Soviet Union because it was impossible and instead try to be friends with them.

    The battle to defend our brothers and sisters in the womb is a long battle that has been waged by more than one president. Some presidents have carried the ball in the wrong direction (Obama/Clinton) and others have (or will) carry it in the right direction (Reagan/Bush/Romney).

    Slavery was the most compelling issue in the 1800’s. Segregation in the first half or so of the 1900’s. And then, as of 1973, abortion became the pre-eminent moral issue of our day. IMO, the question before us is simply – will we carry on the battle to save the millions of “the least of these” who are murdered every year or not? Will we keep our eyes on the goal line and move the team toward it, or will we punt when it’s our turn to carry the ball?

    Is it perhaps time to start forming another party? I think it makes sense to seriously investigate that. See what can be accomplished before the next presidential election. See what kind of support there is, what potential candidates there are. Perhaps if we can get enough support, then we can change the dynamic in the Republican party and move it in a more vigorously and consistently Catholic direction.

    But I think it’s a mistake to vote 3rd party this year or simply not to vote at all – UNLESS you live in a state that is bluer than blue or a state that is redder than red. In any “battleground” state, I believe the best decision for a Catholic is still to vote for Romney. But I do “get” the problem Voris addresses here. Some years ago, I wrote an article saying very similar things.

    Honestly, I sometimes wish that the Church would stop being concerned so much with our 501(c)3 status – concerns about violating the law seem to be unduly muting the prophetic voice of the Church.

    • Ted Seeber

      On the judges issue: The majority of judges in Casey V. Planned Parenthood *were Republican Appointees*. You can’t trust judges.

      If Pro-Life People are truly the majority- then it is time to send both parties and the fringe parties a message.

      Voris is right- it’s time to start a new Party.

      • So are you still owning that political arsonist label? Still quibbling that it should be called scorched earth instead?

        Own it.

        • Andy, Bad Person

          Really? This particular post is political arson?

          • When somebody says they’re ok with the term political arsonist but prefer the term scorched earth, that’s something that is applicable to all their political posts. And yes, in the US political system, the result would burn the system down and would have a good chance of not even saving one net life. We are not a conception to natural death majority among the electorate in the US right now. We’re a country that doesn’t want to think much on it and is uncomfortable where current policy is. If you force a stark choice, the side forcing that choice in this real world electorate is likely going to get no for an answer.
            Currently, we’re at the phase where the pro-death side is putting infanticide on the table for consideration. We must be wise or they’re going to win that one too.

      • Michael F.

        As I said, there have been significant failings. But as a whole, I still maintain that there is a significant different between judges appointed by Republican presidents and those appointed by Dems.

        Part of the problem is also that there are enough so-called “moderate” Republicans in tandem with Democrats that it has been very difficult to get through the most conservative justices at times. So the answer is to elect more conservative reps and senators. If you don’t have enough of them who can actually win, starting a new party isn’t going to help much.

      • Michael F.

        And by the way – I have no problem with starting a new party. But the problem is that we have an election before us *right now*. There are two viable choices – Obama or Romney. I don’t think it makes the best sense to cast a protest vote right now – again – unless you live in blue-blue state or a red-red state. In those cases, I think it would be fine because it won’t actually help Obama.

        • ” But the problem is that we have an election before us *right now*.”

          I’ve noticed that we always have an election before us *right now*.

  • Michael F.

    Note – most of what I said above in regard to abortion could also be said about Romney vs. Obama on “gay marriage” – another of the key battle lines today in the culture war.

  • The solution is to run for committeeman in your local party. Half the spots are often empty and there’s room for thousands. If you get over half the committee, you control the municipality and can heavily influence nominations on that level. If you get enough municipalities, you control the county, etc. The people who control the committees set the rules and they can be set to favor or impede pro-life candidates. Guess how they are set now?

    • Tim Jones

      The system corrupts. The higher people rise in the party system – even the best-intentioned people – the more they will be forced to compromise their principles in order to “get things done”. They end up deeply beholden to those already entrenched in positions of power and influence, OR they get booted to the curb. Even if, by some rare miracle, they can hold on to both their position and their conscience, they will be marginalized and neutered by the Big Players. The party system is a cesspool.

      • If your abiding concern is that the system corrupts, you’re not going to be a political actor ever. All human systems of government corrupt.

  • Bear in mind that every campaign finance reform law has been enacted to protect entrenched interests, though you could probably say that about every bill with the word “reform” in the title.

  • Loud

    I agree, and I am glad I’m not quite old enough to vote this year,
    but it just means I can throw myself into the movement that much more whole-heartedly when it starts up next year! I think my task (and yours too) is to write letters, ( or emails if you have no time) to the morally conservative politicians on both sides of the spectrum who hold office in our respective areas, letting them know we want them to ditch their parties, and that we are ready to support them when they do. We have till the end of this election to convince friends and neighbors to get involved in writing, too, and to come up with a name; movement’s with names are more convincing, I think.

  • Tim Brandenburg

    I had a thought this morning (yes, yes… unusual for me to have a thought *grin*). Most states are certain to vote one way or the other in the presidential election, with only a few swing states. For these non-swing states (whether Red or Blue), Catholic voters could write in Pope Benedict XVI (I realize the Supreme Pontiff isn’t eligible… it is a political statement). If enough Catholics did this, it would make the national media and make a statement that the Catholic vote isn’t for sale to either party and perhaps make a difference in the way we are treated in future elections.

    I’m in Texas, and it is firmly Republican, so my vote doesn’t make a difference anyway, and I had already made the decision to write in the Pope. Maybe a national movement to do this would show we are here and won’t be silent!

    Swing states… probably not, although if enough votes for the Pope made the difference to swing toward Obama it would REALLY make the Republican party listen to us next time. No more taking us for granted.

    It is probably too late to organize such a concerted effort, but I think it could really make a difference.

    Thoughts? Comments? Abuse?