Moscow Patriarchate Also Notices…

Moscow Patriarchate Also Notices… August 29, 2013

that the one single solitary sure fire result of our Mideast policy is the destruction of the Church.

Our friendship with and enmity toward Saddam and bin Laden and Al Quaida and Khaddafy and Egypt may wax and wane over the years, but our tendency to create death and exile for Christians is as constant as the Northern Star.

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  • WorldWatchMonitor

    @KinoNuri receives a worried call from Syria and wonders: Is @StateDept John Kerry thinking about the Christians?

  • Elmwood

    they estimate at least over 109,000 total Iraqi deaths with 66,000 civilian casualties from GWB Iraq invasion. How can we not say modern war is also part of the culture of death in our society? Why would any catholic volunteer to directly participate in these wars? At this point, why would anyone take seriously the pro-life movement of the GOP when they turn a blind eye to our military industrial death machine?

    • George Lower

      For the same reason that I don’t take the Democrats seriously when they pretend to care about the less fortunate, under-priviledged or the uninsured.

    • kenofken

      Nobody takes seriously the pro-life movement of the GOP because they are not in any way shape or form pro-life. They are pro righteous outrage when it comes to fetal life and the sexual revolution in general. They have no particular respect for life as a general matter, and in fact have worked to reduce human life to commodity in every venue of domestic, foreign, economic and cultural policy they have developed. Killing, outside of abortion, is not merely tolerated, but celebrated by the GOP, and quite frankly the majority of establishment Democrats as well. All of these posts about the poor Christians in the Middle East posit that Obama or someone is taking special care to bring them harm. In fact they are just some of the millions of victims of a foreign policy which places a value of absolute zero on human life in other countries.

      • +1000

        Although, it’s not so much that killing is celebrated as the exercise of our fantastic, awe-inspiring power. And if a few luckless natives get in the way of that power, well … kinda their own fault. It does indicate a chilling complacency towards human life on all sides, but it’s not the killing per se that’s celebrated, I think.

  • vox borealis

    Mark, I get what you’re saying and kind of agree, but isn’t this a little bit of an over-simplification, or a shifting of blame, or something. I mean, the reality is that Christians in the middle East have been under intense pressure for a long time. It too waxes and wanes, sometimes more violent, sometimes less. But it’s pressure nonetheless. In many cases, the Muslim majority, or at least a significant and violent subsection of it, threaten to drive out the Christian minority through violence, intimidation, dhimmitude, etc. Heartless semi-secular tyrants are able to check the violent Muslim groups, barely, but meanwhile the tyrant himself causes significant hardship, etc. on the populace as a whole. Then the tyrant is removed and the violent Muslim population attacks the Christians. Or the tyrant decides he needs to get Muslim cfed, so he drops his secular veneer and lets the violent Muslim population attack Christians. Either way, isn’t the group that is *really* to blame the ones actually committing the violence?

    • Elmwood

      It’s the devil who is to blame for all this ultimately. Does that mean we are free to drop bombs because it’s not our fault? Bottom line is modern warfare has great destructive effect on the civilian sector which must be weighed heavily when deciding to go to war. Currently, it is not by either GOP or Obama.

      • vox borealis

        I never said that, which seems to be a willful misreading of my comment. My point is that more proximate blame has to lie with the savages violently destroying the church, and will likely do so no matter what our foreign policy is. Which does not exonerate US foreign policy, either. But when the savages burn churches, I’m not sure it’s productive or helpful to point the finger of blame at the US as the “real” culprit.

        I’m also somewhat uncomfortable with Mark’s apparent position, which seems to boil down to: it’s ok to have repressive regimes so long as the Christian minority there is sort of protected. I’m sure that’s not what he means, but that’s what his highly tribal and focused analysis of US foreign policy in the Middle East sounds like. But that’s another discussion.

        • Elmwood

          In the case of Iraq, it was the US who is to blame for causing the destruction of the christian churches there. GWB should be in jail for war crimes. But he won’t, and neither will Obama. If you kill 1,000’s of people or steal 1,000,000’s of dollars, you are much less likely to get jail time.

          • Imp the Vladaler

            No. The people who blame for the destruction of the Christian churches there are the people who destroyed the Christian churches there.

            There’s enough legitimate blame to be placed on Bush. Don’t remove moral agency from the Noble Muslim Savages.

            • Elmwood

              This is like blaming the failures of prohibition on organized crime rather than the conditions which allowed organized crime to flourish–namely prohibition. Another stupid fundamentalist idea like “American Exceptionalism”.

  • Nick Ruedig

    While I agree with the sentiment (US Mideast Policy is terrible for Christians in the area) I really don’t think the Moscow Patriarchate is a reliable choice. It’s pretty clear over the past few decades that they’ve been co-opted into being a moral propaganda branch of the Russian government, especially under Putin’s lengthy rule.
    We not only have to be wary of adverse consequences for Christians in the middle east under US intervention, we also have to worry about persecution of Catholics in Russia under the state-sponsored Orthodox church.

    • Mariana Baca

      Metropolitan Hilarion is in general pretty ecumenical, all things considered, and probably the most pro-Catholic voice among Russian Archbishops. I don’t see him as the unofficial voice of the Russian Gov’t propaganda machine.

  • Mike the Geek

    Is it sinful to wish that, for the sake of Christian unity, the Holy Father would replace the American Latin-Rite Episcopate with the Orthodox hierarchy? In return, just to keep things even, the American Latin-Rite Bishops could take over the sees in Siberia.

    • Elmwood

      Whatever works, I’m all for it. Even if the pope moves to Constantinople.

      • tz1

        If it is still valid when “Rome has spoken”… from Avignon.
        Note the Pope doesn’t have to REPLACE the latin rite hierarchy, but having boots – or are they slippers – on the ground in the dioceses in the middle east, you know the area that is occupied by “islamofacists” as many of the “faithful” would describe them, and have them evangelize. I live in the building with (orthodox) Bishop Nicholas – He’s a nice guy, and the idea of replacing the USCCB with the local Orthodox ordinary is probably something I will need to confess, but would probably improve both the US and Mid East.