A Reader Writes of his Experience Among the Dark Enlightenment Types

A Reader Writes of his Experience Among the Dark Enlightenment Types February 13, 2014

The Dark Enlightenment Exposed

I first heard about the Dark Enlightenment (aka “Neo-Reaction” or just “Reaction”) last year, the year after I graduated from college and was interning at a conservative think tank. I briefly become involved with the Dark Enlightenment and then left the movement in disgust. Here is what I learned:

– The Dark Enlightenment is controlled by what the media call “Sith Lords”. You have more public Lords like Mencius Moldbug and Nick Land, but there are even some Lords up higher whose names are not revealed. They say the Master Lord says ‘Et Ego in Arcadia’ which is an anagram for ‘Tego Arcana Dei’ (“I hide the secrets of God”).

– But only the media call them ‘Sith Lords’. In Inner Speak, they will often use phrases like the Men of Númenor or the Eldars.

– I never met any of the higher Eldars, but I did once meet an Eldar in Training. I don’t know his real name but people called him Legolas. He had long blond hair, was dressed like a 19th century count, and wore a pendant that had both a Christian Cross and Thor’s Hammer on it.

– The movement is a weird mixture of ethno-nationalists, futurists, monarchists, PUAs (“pick-up artists” like Chateau Heartiste), Trad Catholics, Trad Protestants, etc. They all believe in HBD (what they call “human biodiversity” i.e. racism) but disagree on some other minor points.

– The religious people in the movement (both Christians and pagans) practice what is called “identitarian religion” (religion that doesn’t deny ethnic identity).

– Some of the rising stars of the Dark Enlightenment on the internet seem to be Radish Magazine, Occam’s Razor Mag, and Theden TV.

– The Dark Enlightenment allegedly has millions of dollars of money to play with. They have a couple big donors. One is rumored to be a major tech tycoon in Silicon Valley. They actually had a private 3-day meeting on an island which was furnished with a French chef, etc. Different forms of formal attire were required for each day (tuxedos, 3-piece suits, etc), and some weird costumes were required too (capes, hoods, etc) — which sound like a pagan cult. (I wasn’t at this function but heard about it.)

– I was initiated into the first stages of the Dark Enlightenment, which involved me stripping down naked so people could “inspect my phenotype”. I was then given a series of very personal questions, often relating to sexual matters. I was then told to put on a black cape. (I really regret doing this but at the time I was younger, more impressionable and eager to please.)

– For the initial oath taking, everyone must swear on a copy of Darwin’s Origin of Species, just to show their fidelity to HBD. After that, for the later oaths, seculars will swear again on Darwin, while Christians will swear on the Bible, and pagans on the Prose Edda or Iliad.

– At one of the meetings I heard someone continuously chanting “gens alba conservanda est” (Latin for “the white race must be preserved”) and then others were chanting things in Anglo-Saxon, Old Norse and Old German, but I don’t know those languages so I can’t remember exactly what they were saying.

– They also have all their own secret handshakes, and their own terminology [like the Cathedral (“political correctness”), thedening (“re-establishing ethnic group identity”), genophilia (“love of one’s own race”), NRx (“neoreaction”), etc.].

– On the philosophical level, this movement is not entirely original. Much of it is borrowed from the Identitarian movement in Europe. They also all detest democracy. They are not trying to be a “populist movement” but are only trying to convert other elites to their way of thinking.

This whole movement is like a secret cult, which is why I left. Also, because of the valiant and brave efforts of people on the net exposing this movement, I saw this cult for the evil it truly is. Please stay away from it.

The thing about nascent movements like this is that it’s hard to know when to pay attention and when to ignore them. If you ignore them they can grow in the dark, like mushrooms on dung.  If you make too much fuss, you can attract idiots–particularly extremist idiots–who automatically assume that anything normal people find objectionable must be awesome, radical, and “not PC” and therefore good.  But of course, cannibalism is not PC either and embracing something simply and solely on the basis that it is a “reaction” is one of the stupidest things humans can do. You can’t build a life on protest and reaction.  You have to be for something, not merely against something.  And at the end of the day, the only real core of DE “thought” is to be for racialism.

Much of the stuff written above describes a sect that brings out belly laughs. Eldar? Men of Numenor?  Seriously? Tolkien would have these overgrown D and D players’ guts for garters if he heard they were exploiting his work for their deplorable cultus. Particularly since (which is my main concern about them) they are using his work as a grab bag of code words for their deep-rooted racialist heresy. Here’s what Tolkien actually thought of racialist bullshit:

When J.R.R. Tolkien published The Hobbit on September 21st, 1937, it was immediately met with critical acclaim and high levels of commercial demand.

Naturally, in the ensuing months, publishing houses around Europe contacted Tolkien to enquire about translating and publishing the acclaimed popular novel in their respective tongues. The Berlin publisher Rütten & Loening was on the verge of printing its own German-language version of The Hobbit, when suddenly they requested written documentation of Tolkien’s Aryan heritage. This request so infuriated Tolkien that he penned a letter to his publisher and friend Stanley Unwin. It read:

I must say the enclosed letter from Rütten & Loening is a bit stiff. Do I suffer this impertinence because of the possession of a German name, or do their lunatic laws require a certificate of arisch (aryan) origin from all persons of all countries?

Personally, I should be inclined to refuse to give any Bestätigung (although it happens that I can), and let a German translation go hang. In any case I should object strongly to any such declaration appearing in print… I have many Jewish friends, and should regret giving any colour to the notion that I subscribed to the wholly pernicious and unscientific race-doctrine.

You are primarily concerned, and I cannot jeopardize the chance of a German publication without your approval. So I submit two drafts of possible answers.

Of the two letters which Tolkien went on to draft for Rütten & Loening, one did not even acknowledge their request for racial documentation, and the other rebuked completely their racist ideology and historically baseless appropriation of the label “Aryan.” While we do not know which one Stanley Unwin eventually sent, the latter is reproduced below. It was dated July 25th, 1938.

Thank you for your letter. I regret that I am not clear as to what you intend by “arisch.” I am not of Aryan extraction: that is Indo-Iranian; as far as I am aware none of my ancestors spoke Hindustani, Persian, Gypsy, or any related dialects. But if I am to understand that you are enquiring whether I am of Jewish origin, I can only reply that I regret that I appear to have no ancestors of that gifted people. My great-great-grandfather came to England in the eighteenth century from Germany: the main part of my descent is therefore purely English, and I am an English subject – which should be sufficient. I have been accustomed, nonetheless, to regard my German name with pride, and continued to do so throughout the period of the late regrettable war, in which I served in the English army. I cannot, however, forbear to comment that if impertinent and irrelevant inquiries of this sort are to become the rule in matters of literature, then the time is not far distant when a German name will no longer be a source of pride.

Your enquiry is doubtless made in order to comply with the laws of your own country, but that this should be held to apply to the subjects of another state would be improper, even if it had (as it has not) any bearing whatsoever on the merits of my work or its sustainability for publication, of which you appear to have satisfied yourselves without reference to my Abstammung.

These words and the surrounding commentary are sourced and adapted from The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien as well as Humphrey Carpenter’s fantastic book, J.R.R. Tolkien: A Biography.

It’s funny: Tolkien and his work were extremely popular among Nazi elites who were fixated on his academic writings about Germanic history and the Old Norse dialect. The sentiment, however, was hardly reciprocated, as the comments above evince. In a letter to his son Michael, which he penned on June 9th, 1941, Tolkien wrote,

I have in this War a burning private grudge—which would probably make me a better soldier at 49 than I was at 22: against that ruddy little ignoramus Adolf Hitler … Ruining, perverting, misapplying, and making for ever accursed, that noble northern spirit, a supreme contribution to Europe, which I have ever loved, and tried to present in its true light.

My sympathies are entirely with Tolkien, and the DE’s sympathies are entirely with Hitler’s in continuing to ruin, pervert, misapply and make still more accursed the noble northern spirit Tolkien loved.

My reader’s experience points out what is the real focal point of DE crap amidst whatever boutique monarchist fantasies and silly rites and esoterica may occupy the elitists, fringe nuts, Reactionary Catholics and cocky college sophomores in the Vanguard of History attracted to this BS: the heresy of racialism and the grave sin of pride.  It also shows why the movement is gaining ground among the young: because it appeals to pride and uses the grievances of conservatives against “the Cathedral” (a bogeyman compact of PC lefties,  holders of ordinary Christian morality, minorities imagined to threaten “the Real America”, and most normal decent people) to tell post-Christian conservatives that they are Special and the herd (most of the human race) are to be dismissed with Nietschzean hubris by the Ubermenschen.

Some will, with some legitimacy, point out that the kindest word you can use to describe the antics and ideas my reader describes is “whackadoodle.”  True.  So, for that matter, were the antics and ideas of the sundry racist sects, movements, crack-brained secret societies and kooks who constituted the ridiculous esoterica that fascinated Himmler.  Had National Socialism never gained the force of arms it would have been–from a sociological and political perspective–absolutely hilarious.  From a spiritual perspective, however, it would have remained as spiritually deadly as ever because it was rooted–as DE is rooted–in the sin of pride and racism.

So do I think DE will become a national movement of serious power?  I’m skeptical of this. Indeed, I’m skeptical that this particular report describes anything beyond a local manifestation of one particular little group that takes itself seriously. But so what?  I do think that it is already making inroads among young people like my reader and that those under its sway are in grave spiritual danger.  There are lots of trendy ideas about that don’t have to lead to mass murder in order to kill the soul.

Catholics should not touch this absurd filth with a barge pole.  That it is absurd does not make it one whit less filthy.

Oh. And “Hey girl! I want to inspect your phenotype” has to be biggest Loser Nerd Living in the Basement Endlessly Watching “Triumph of the Will” Warning to Women in Human History. The people most obsessed with passing on their Master Race genes always seem to be the ones who can’t get a date. As ever, the first line of defense against such people is laughter.  “The devil, the proud spirit, cannot endure to be mocked.” – St. Thomas More

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  • LorenzoCanuck

    Mark, before you dismiss HBD outright, you should probably consider this post by Rod Dreher: http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/evolution-the-culture-war/

    From a Catholic perspective, there really is no reason why any actual racial differences should have any moral significance. We are different: let us celebrate!

    The problem is that modern society has become unmoored from a Christian ethos and therefore has no idea how to handle such information, which is why ‘progressives’ tend to hand-wring about such matters while the ultra-right DE types jump headlong into what is essentially materialist insanity. If the immanent God is written out, then there is only raw nature.

    • jroberts548

      If the proponents if “hbd” didn’t also believe that their race happened to be superior, maybe I’d be more inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.

      • Ben

        This. Nobody endorses “HBD” and says “well my race is inferior I just have to accept it!” No, they always happen to be a member of the master race. Just like you will never meet a Calvinist who counts himself among the predestined to be eternally damned. Racialism is biological Calvinism and just as inhumanly insane, right down to its Internet cult folllwing and prerecorded 10 paragraph Internet rants.

        • AntiGnostic

          All the Anglo HBD realists I know acknowledge that their group’s median IQ is lower than the median IQ’s of Ashkenazim and Koreans.
          BTW, if you think white guys on the internet are racial supremacists, wait until the upper caste Hindus and Han Chinese start hitting their stride.
          The “superiority” thing is a bit of a canard actually. Most people would be happy just to be allowed an all-white school district. But if we’re going to get into metrics, 98% of the artifacts and processes of the civilized world came from within the Hajnal lines.

          • Ben

            Yes, I realize they say that, and it’s always shortly folllwed by something along the lines of “but whites have more geniuses, bigger standard deviation!” or “whites are the most creative!” or some other self serving statement.

            • AntiGnostic

              People vote with their feet and their mortgages for majority-white areas. But the other commenter is right: each group brings something to the table. Only Anglo’s and Europeans are not allowed to take pride in their group per se.

              • Ben

                European groups aren’t allowed to take pride in their Heritage? Uh, funny, my Parish is getting ready to hold the annual neighborhood Irish Festival. I must be imagining things. I also must have hallucinated when I visited the German-American Museum in DC last year.

                Italians, Poles, German Americans etc constant celebrate their heritage and I don’t see anyone getting arrested.

                • AntiGnostic

                  So which is it: people belong to diverse ancestral groups with their own cultural expressions, or we’re all just these generic “humans” who can be changed out depending on the needs of commerce?

                  And if the former, is it entirely unthinkable that some of those groups might be incompatible with each other?

                  In the name of this generic, transnational “humanity” that everybody seems to forget the day of their own ethnic festival, we are taking equatorial peoples and settling them in places like Sweden and the upper Midwest. Where they have vitamin D deficiencies and soaring rates of autism among their first-generation children.

          • Ben

            “Han Chinese” is a bogus group btw. Northern and Southern ” Han” are very different and often despise each other.

            All national and and ethnic groups are to some extent artificial and often recent inventions. Language is no guarantee either. Even in France not every region spoke French until the advent of public schools in the 1800s. What we think of as the Italian language today is really the dialect of Florence and so on.

            Or heck, let’s ask the Flemish what they think of the Walloons . Two white northern European groups that can’t stand each other, and it’s even been shown that the Flemish have higher IQs. Once you give into the satanic impulse to divide people up it won’t ever stop.

            • wlinden

              jehu’nai “Christian” is a bogus group. Catholic and Protestant “Christians” are very different and often despise each other.

              (*jehu’nai* is a Lojban attitudinal I am trying to popularize to compensate for the lack of a “sarcasm” font.)

              • Ben

                Comparing ethnicity to religion? Talk about apples and oranges…

                • wlinden

                  What a crushing refutation! It would slay them in Bosnia!

      • garwalf

        It sounds like white supremacy is more your obsession. I don’t recall any mention of “superior” in the serious HBD discussions I’ve observed. HBD is about evolved differences among human populations, not “superiority” of any group. On average, different groups excel at different sorts of challenges.

        Pretty much everyone I’ve seen around the DE corners of the web readily admits that whites are pretty much middle of the pack with regard to intellectual ability. Nobody claims to be the “master race.” Not much white supremacy going on there. But I think you already knew that and are just trolling.

        • Ben

          They never out and say whites are superior, they just constant imply it.

          Master race was tongue in cheek btw. Nobody actuallly talks like that after 1945.

        • jroberts548

          If I didn’t always see HBD promoted together with rejecting the claim that all people are created equal, I might believe you. I guess if you believed in HBD and equality, you might not be a white supremacist.

  • HornOrSilk

    Sadly, I think the DE is spreading, and spreading fast, not just with the youth, but indeed, within conservative circles. Of course, many are being led to the ideology without affiliation, which is exactly what the leaders of the DE want. And, I think, Obama is a reason for this: while not all, indeed, most conservatives are not racists, Obama’s presidency has allowed for a racist underbelly to show itself in conservative circles, allowing for the slow progression of the ideology of the DE. You can see this in the commentary on popular conservative sites like WND, Breitbart, and the like. Moreover, this underbelly existed in the libertarian movements, as can be seen in the newsletters of Ron Paul. The popularity of conspiracy theories (birtherism, 9-11 trutherism) also connects to these sites, and thus allows for the attack on “The Cathedral.” If you ever read conspiracy theory websites, the racist undercurrent of the movement often is front and center (see godlikeproductions ). Moreover, the way many “conservatives” who talk on Fox end up also talking elsewhere for “coups” (see Paul Vallely) indicate how easy it is to lead these conservatives to override the Republic itself.

    • RagnarDanneskjold

      This is the result of reaching the end of the ideological line and asking questions like: why does every Republican president move the country further to the left? The most oft cited text is: Liberty or Equality by Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn, which is a criticism of democracy by an Austrian Catholic. Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg is not as strong a book, but in the same vein.

      It is very funny to watch progressives try and figure out what it is. Sort of like cave men trying to understand how a TV works and thinking the images that come through are the important part, not the electronics inside the box.

      • HornOrSilk

        Well the whole libertarian anti-state movement is liberalism to the extreme. The right, the classical right, promotes a strong state. There is nothing wrong with a strong state, and indeed, criticism of democracy — however, it should be along the lines of Catholic Social Doctrine, which many Republicans say is “of the left.” Which shows how little they know of political theory. It’s funny when I see some of them get all caught up in the US’s “conservative” debate, promoting the GOP, then acting all supportive of monarchy and de Maistre: never the twain shall meet. They only take the dark underbelly of de Maistre. I myself actually respect de Maistre, and I’m a monarchist, but like de Maistre, a realist which understands there is no “perfect state” and no universal “best political system” — each state has its particular form and proper system. You can prefer one to another, in theory, but you have to accept the world as it is, and stop forming revolutionary mindsets — for that, as de Maistre came to realize, is what really destroys all freedom and liberty.

        • AntiGnostic

          A monarch is the head of an ancestral family in its geographic redoubt. You take care of family. Transnational loyalties damage social cohesion, which is why the Jewish patriarchs warned against kings taking on foreign wives.
          Monarchy is a blatantly racially-conscious governing structure. You may have noticed that Europe with its Catholic monarchies filled up with distinctive nations instead of being one generic, multi-cult blob like the US.

          • HornOrSilk

            Not all monarchs were the heads of ancestral families. There were many forms of monarchy — and btw, the empire was created with distinctive nations, and run by a monarch. Sorry, you have no knowledge of history, race, or the like. If you are Catholic, I hope you listen to the Church:







            • AntiGnostic

              The history of empires, from Rome to Austro-Hungary, has been their devolution into their constituent nations. The USSR, a secular empire, is the most recent and spectacular example. The next will be the US. Multicultural polities are not sustainable.
              I doubt you’ve ever thought about race much beyond the phrase, “racism = bad.”

              • HornOrSilk

                And one can say the history of “nations” is the evolution into an empire. So what, things change, back and forth. You made a historical claim about monarchies which proved false. You follow the Protestant Reformation’s error in trying to divide humanity, which of course, brought the rampant nationalism of modernity which did not exist previously and was denied by the Church.

                All societies have always been multicultural. ALL. Languages demonstrate this by the words which are borrowed from other languages. There is no “pure race.” Never has been. Never will be. What I see is someone who denies the unity of the human race under Christ, where there is no male nor female, Jew or Gentile – this is the Christian spirit. Nationalism, which is been routinely rejected by the Church, is Satanic, divisive, a thing of hate.

                The fact that you keep with simplistic platitudes and simplistic history says enough.

                • AntiGnostic

                  One wonders, therefore, why the Lord smashed the unity of the human race at Babel.
                  Nobody says sexual differences don’t exist–it’s actually blasphemous to deny they do. And up to very recent times, no one, not even Church hierarchs, would deny that people were strikingly different by race and ethnicity as well. That phrase by St. Paul doesn’t prove what you think it does.
                  Multicultural polities require a strong central state with punitive laws to keep people from doing what they do wherever and whenever they are allowed: segregate along ethno-cultural lines.
                  The current conflicts in the Middle East and Africa are testament to British and European imperialists who believed wogs were just wogs and it didn’t matter where the borders were drawn.

                  • HornOrSilk

                    Seems you forgot Pentecost, where the unity of humanity is re-established, and Babel overcome. Seems you also miss the point of the story of Babel, where the diversity itself was seen, not as something good, but as a punishment for sin. Christ came to overcome all such divides. This is the Christian message — you ignore the unity of humanity in Christ, who is the Second Adam, that unites us all so as to save us in his Body. You look, not to Christ, but to sinful man.

                    But even then, all throughout history, multiculturalism has existed. Indeed, it was a major multicultural event (Alexander the Great) which highlights the center of a major stage of human development preparing for Christ.

                    The current conflicts in the Middle East come, in part, from nationalists like you, who confuse nation with state.

                    I will stick with Christ, not the Satanic thrust for division.

                    • AntiGnostic

                      Nation is “natus,” people. Also the root for nativity, birth. A nation is a matter of ancestry. One nice thing about nationality is it’s not something for the state to give and it’s not something that the state can take away, unlike citizenship.
                      I am well aware of the nation-state distinction. Most states are enemies of their people. The American state, for example, has decided that fair-skinned people–at least, the gun-toting, Bible-carrying, low-tax kind–are the enemy. So the state is importing new people.
                      The Church did very well under Empire so it’s not surprising that Catholics have been pining for its return ever since. But the fact that empires end in blood and tears every single time bespeaks how much it violates Man’s nature for such diverse peoples to be forced into the same polity. Getting back to your conflation with St. Paul’s epistle, we are repulsed (absent massive, cradle-to-grave State propaganda) by men pretending to be women, but seem to think it’s perfectly natural for wildly divergent peoples to live in the same polity. The fact that it all ends in tears every single time never seems to give anyone pause. In fact, it’s further proof of the rightness of our cause! Double down on diversity, our strength! The notion that maybe it’s all an obscene attempt to immanentize the eschaton will not be entertained.

                    • HornOrSilk

                      The fact that the racism you keep espousing begets abuse of the stranger, and all kinds of bloodshed, is ignored. And not all multicultural examples have led to bloodshed, but when it does, it is often because of theories which you are promote which seek the scapegoat in the stranger, not because of multiculturalism itself.

                      You really have a shallow understanding of history. I just wonder what makes you an “anti-Gnostic.”

                      And, as for St Paul, it’s not just Paul. It’s the Christian tradition. Here is St Maximus:

                      With us and through us he encompasses the whole creation through its intermediaries and the extremities through their own parts. He binds about himself each with the other, tightly and indissolubly, paradise and the inhabited world, heaven and earth, things sensible and things intelligible, since he possess like us sense and soul and mind, by which, as parts, he assimilates himself by each of the extremities to what is universally akin to each in the previously mentioned manner. Thus he divinely recapitulates the universe in himself, showing that the whole creation exists as one, like another human being, completed by gathering together of its parts one with another in itself, and inclined towards itself by the whole of its existence, in accordance with the one, simple, undifferentiated and indifferent idea of production from nothing, in accordance with which the whole of creation admits of one and the same undiscriminated logos, as having not been before it is.

                    • AntiGnostic

                      Nothing in that airy quote from St. Maximus of course addresses the fact that devout Christian Greeks, Poles, Serbians, Spaniards, Croats, Lebanese, etc., have stubbornly kept on being Greek, Polish, Serbian, Spanish, Croatian, Lebanese, etc.

                      Kindness toward strangers sojourning in your land (a concept itself requiring a sense of Otherness and in-group loyalty) is of course a Christian mandate. When a whole bunch of strangers do it at once and subvert your institutions, it goes by that old-fashioned name of conquest.

                      Currently, the head of the Catholic Church seems more concerned that Muslims feel welcome to practice their faith in what used to be Christendom than that Christendom be reclaimed in Europe. That’s where kind-hearted, muddle-headed thinking on issues like race and nationhood lead. The Vatican, in its efforts to be welcoming uber alles, will end up a ghetto surrounded by Muslims, like that one over in Istanbul.

                    • Robin-Frans Winkel

                      If the UN pressurizes the Pope to allow abortion, the Pope should say that the Catholic Church will to longer prevent Atheists from imposing abortion on Muslims

                    • LostSailorNY

                      If the UN pressurizes the Pope, he’ll explode.

                      Or maybe implode depending on how they do it…

                    • wlinden

                      By putting him in a pressure cooker?

                    • HornOrSilk

                      Nothing from the “airy quote” of a saint impresses you. Yes, I get it. I don’t really think you are Christian, from the way you keep talking. Oh, and Christians groups intermingled always throughout history — again, your knowledge of history is quite poor indeed.

                      The current head follows what the Church has said for a long time — Vatican II also said it (Nostra Aetate). However, you rejected Christendom yourself, by ridiculing its universality. Which is it? You can’t have it both ways. And, you clearly ARE a Gnostic.

                    • AntiGnostic

                      Ah yes, hoary old Vatican II.

                      Oh, and Christians groups intermingled always throughout history — again, your knowledge of history is quite poor indeed.

                      Okay, then tell me why when I look at a map of Europe and read European history they seem quite devoted to the idea that the French get France, the Germans get Germany, the Croats get Croatia, the Poles get Poland, the Serbs get Serbia, and on and on. All parts of Christendom, by the way.

                      This is not peculiar to Europe. The Pueblos dug into rock cliffs hundreds of feet high to keep away from their neighbors.

                      You are the one hanging on to ethereal idealism rather than the facts on the ground.

                    • HornOrSilk

                      “hoard old Vatican II” Yes, we get it, you reject the Catholic faith. I done with you. You show no understanding of history, you show know understanding of the issues being addressed, all you show is venom and outright nonsense.

                    • wlinden

                      I am a card-carrying Gnostic, and I resent that.

                    • CJ

                      Empires and multi-ethnic polities aren’t the only ones that end in tears. How many republics have the French had, again? Greeks, Germans, Italians, and Japanese have all warred against their own kind over the last couple millenia. Before Islam, Arabs were never a threat to Byzantium or Persia because they were too busy fighting amongst themselves. In the Byzantine Empire, the prevailing wisdom on fighting Arabs was to hire other Arabs to fight them.
                      HoS also makes a good point that ethnic nation states rarely keep to themselves. Within living memory, we’ve had Japanese ruling Chinese and Koreans, Englishmen ruling Indians, and Russians over Tajiks, Azeris, etc. Ethnic states are no barrier against state-level violence. At most, they simply direct the violence outward rather than inward.

                    • AntiGnostic

                      Nothing is a barrier against human violence. But if I’m Han Chinese, I sure as hell don’t want Japanese in Manchuria. And if I’m Tibetan, I’d really prefer the socialistic Chinese rule the Chinese and stay away from my strict Buddhist, feudal mountain kingdom. Good fences make good neighbors.

                    • CJ

                      But the fences are never good enough to keep the Japanese out of Manchuria. And the reason is that the Japanese (or whoever) always WANT to go into Manchuria (or wherever). If the neo-reactionary view of history was correct, the Japanese would’ve been perfectly happy in their mono-ethnic islands and would never have troubled those folks in Nanking or Korea. They were living the dream! And yet they went and screwed it up by creating an empire, just like the Brits, Russians, Spanish, Turks, Arabs, and others did.
                      To sum up, my point is that 1) ethnic nation-states have plenty of internal strife, and 2) if they do get their act together and pull in the same direction, they will leave their ethnic isolation and go conquer a bunch of foreigners. So what problem does ethno-nationalism actually solve?

                    • AntiGnostic

                      The one where the imperialist central state expands continuously to keep its Ponzi-scheme transfer payments going until it collapses in bloodshed and economic destitution.
                      Look, it’s not a perfect world, but Swedes and Norwegians seem perfectly sensible and peaceable going their separate ways, as do the Czechs and Slovaks. The Catalonians are set to do the same thing. The United Kingdom is negotiating exit rights. (This will accelerate with that looming Muslim disaster in London.)
                      The Kurds insist on their separate nationhood despite the fact that the British and French didn’t seem to think they existed. Now, as the artificial, multicultural states of the Middle East begin their collapse, the Kurds have a nation to fall back on. Everybody else is crammed into a refugee camp to slowly starve and sicken.
                      I think lots of good things result from the division of mankind into nations. Chesterton agreed with me. Where do you think ‘diversity’ comes from?

                    • CJ

                      You’re right, of course, that there are separatist trends in evidence now. But the pendulum swings both ways. Empire is just as “natural” as nationalism. Nations create empires and then nations break away from empires. Wash, rinse, repeat. Reactionaries act as if nationalism is THE natural state of mankind and seem to ignore that every empire starts with a nation that somehow decides to give up the ethnic isolation that’s supposedly their reason for being.
                      To answer where I think diversity comes from, it comes from the human heart. The reason there were anti-miscegenation laws is because people were micegenatin’. Strom Thurmond had a black kid for crying out loud. Did her mom get bussed to his bedroom?

                    • AntiGnostic

                      So now we do grant legal recognition to inter-racial marriages and what do we see? Assortative mating, with rates of outmarriage diminishing with genetic and cultural distance. The fact that Strom Thurmond had sex with his maid doesn’t prove much.

                      “Diversity comes from the human heart.” What a load of sugary sentiment. Diversity comes from in-group marriage.

                      Empire comes from a sense of racial superiority coupled with greed for more tribute from subordinate peoples. Again, not sure why Catholics are so enamored of it.

                    • CJ

                      Perhaps I misunderstood your diversity question. I thought you were asking why races mix. And my answer is that it’s a part of humanity. People, of their own free will, do mix with other races. Whether through sex, immigration, or conquest it has gone on since the dawn of humanity and doesn’t require a nanny state or propaganda. In fact, it often happens in spite of those factors pushing in the opposite direction.
                      If that isn’t what you were asking, I’d be happy to answer your questions if you can clarify.

                    • AntiGnostic

                      I am asking you where you think diverse peoples with their distinct languages, cultures and phenotypes come from if you really believe out-marriage is more than a marginal phenomenon. We should be all one cappuccino-colored, Esperanto-speaking blob after millennia of co-existence.

                      If anything, I’d bet racial phenotypes are becoming more pronounced as individuals hunker down in safe harbors in an atomized, globalist world.

                    • CJ

                      Ah, I see. Diverse peoples come from historical patterns of migration and settlement along with geographic isolation. Now that global travel is easier than ever, the reason we haven’t all blended together is that . . . wait for it . . .people generally marry within their own racial or ethnic group, (myself included).

                    • Ben

                      To say that “outmarriage” is a fringe phenomenon betrays a gross parochialism on your part. You might try visiting our sister republics just south of here sometime. Or Central Asia. Or the Middle East. Or the Philippines to name just, oh, 1 billion or so examples of extremely racially mixed peoples. That two of these are examples are mostly Catholics will be an exercise left to the reader.

                      Nationalism as a phenomenon is less than 200 years old, and ironically a product of the French Revolution which you claim to detest. The idiotic idea that each ‘nation’ should have its own geographically contiguous state is even newer, mostly the brainchild of Woodrow Wilson. It’s led to nothing but bloodshed and ethnic cleansing.

                      The ideal “Catholic monarchy” was the House of Hapsburg and if anything was a multinational blob it was the Austrian Empire.

                      You’re not a very good reactionary. You are parroting quite new and yes liberal ideas.

                    • Ben

                      Also, it is not true that your option is either empire or nation state. Before the 19th Century and the invention of nationalism it was empire, colony, kingdom/principlality. Just look at map of Italy or Germany from the 17th Century.

                    • AntiGnostic

                      Right. The empire that shattered and took out all of Western civilization with it.

                      I bet the Palestinians wish they had a geographically contiguous state. The Kurds invest a lot of time and energy in keeping their nation geographically contiguous.

                      The former Spanish imperial colonies are highly racially stratified, by the way.

                    • Ben

                      Your claim was that “outmarriage” (so-called, real outmarriage is marrying the unbaptized but whatever) is fringe and ever widespread. The very existence of Mexico and Peru disproves this assertion, among many other examples.

                      Kurdish nationalism is, at most, a century old. It did not exist before then. The Kurds were quite content under the Ottoman Sultans and we’re left well enough alone. Only with the infection of liberal, European nationalist ideas did this change. Ditto the situation in Palestine.

                    • AntiGnostic

                      Mexico and Peru are what’s left after Catholic conquistadors swoop in and rape and pillage the place. Mexican-Iberian elites are dumping their excess indio- and mestizo peasantry on the US, by the way.

                      Peru is a complete disaster. The indigenous Peruvians were unable to secure their borders.

                    • Ben

                      And this, ladies and gentlemen, is how one knows that America is truly still a child of Britain: because the Black Legend lives. Even among the Catholics. SMH…

                    • Robin-Frans Winkel

                      It is indeed true that Muslims direct the violence outward. Muslims castrated Christian boys, but Christians castrated Christian boys as well.

                      Maybe we need an European Mohammed, who unifies us and imposes a law on the Arabs stating that European men can have Arab wives, but not the other way around.

                    • HornOrSilk

                      Not just don’t keep to themselves, it’s how new blood comes in to make it strong, without it, we would all be inbred too much.

  • kirthigdon

    Mark, I think this guy was having a little fun with you. HoS talks of the danger of conspiracy theories, but this supposed DE conspiracy with its naked inspections, gourmet French dinners, oaths on Darwin, anonymous Sith lords and equally anonymous nerd financiers from Silicon Valley is a conspiracy theory silly enough to put the Elders of Zion to shame. I’m not one myself to dismiss alleged conspiracies out of hand, but I think this one can be safely dismissed. This guy knew what buttons to push with you and pushed them all.
    Kirt Higdon

    • HornOrSilk

      It’s not just the danger of conspiracy theories, it is the fact that those who engage them become that which they project. They are the ones who dictate to everyone else, complain about censorship but censor everyone else, etc. Look to Alex Jones as another example of this.

      • kirthigdon

        Alex Jones is another example of what, exactly? Whom does he censor and whom does he dictate to? From my marginal familiarity with his program, I’d just call him the Art Bell of conspiracy theories. He presents a lot of material from a whole range of theorists, some of it garbage, some of it maybe not. He’s definitely outside the mainstream and to me that’s a point in his favor. We need to expand our information sources outside the narrow spectrum limited by Fox and NBC.
        Kirt Higdon

        • HornOrSilk

          He censors a lot of people on his forums (as do most conspiracy theorist forums). And he is all about himself, famous for making events all about himself.

    • AntiGnostic

      Mark fell for it because his fantasy is to be stripped naked and have his phenotype inspected by tall, good-looking men with exquisite tastes.

    • nobody now

      This sounds kinda fun. We could make it happen. Anybody know a french chef, or at least a decent cook who can fake an accent?

  • HornOrSilk

    Whether or not the reader “tricked” Mark or not, you can tell, something of the truth is mixed in it, with the people already parading in this thread indicative of the DE’s ideology.

    • HornOrSilk

      And that, btw, is how the DE works. It plays games like that, putting a bit of their ideology in the things they write to play on others. Then they find out who they can attract with their play, and get the real ideology going.

      • HornOrSilk

        And with all the downvotes, I hit it out of the ballpark

        • Andy, Bad Person

          I’d say it looks like this got posted on a DE forum somewhere, judging from all the “Guest” votes AntiGnostic is getting.

          • HornOrSilk

            Well, http://voxday.blogspot.com/ is one source of it, with ridicule. Yet, as I have said, there is more than a “punking” which is going on, and that is shown in the desperation. You know how it is, got to mix truth with falsehood to do a good punking — the problem is — it’s the truth, not the joke, which is really the whole point.

  • wlinden

    If you believe all that, I have a nice cathedral under construction I can sell you.

    Or, for those who have taken the time to read FOUCAULT’S PENDULUM, “Ma gave la nata!”

    • Rosemarie


      I thought it seemed a bit farfetched when I read it.

  • Shibes Meadow


    Mr. Shea, you have been had by a master. Your frantic response, complete with quotations from JRR Tolkien, shows how desperate you are for your Enlightenment dogma of Liberty, Equality, and Fraternity to be true — and how heartfelt your dedication to the Enlightenment-inspired conciliar “church”is.

    But your conciliar church is doomed, Mr. Shea, as are its antichristian ideals. Every day, more and more Catholics open their eyes and realize the truth: that human liberty is not the greatest good; that human equality is a risible fantasy; and that the only real fraternity is the fraternity that exists between those of the same blood and culture.

    Men are free only in one sense: they are free to choose between the Truth and lies. They are equal only in the sense that all men are equal in God’s eyes, equally sinful and equally salvageable by Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. And they are brothers only within the walls of the Church. Any other definition of these terms is a lie — a lie fewer and fewer of us believe any more.

    Don’t call us conservatives. We see little in our country, our culture, or the conciliar church worth conserving. Don’t call us right-wingers. We reject the false left-right spectrum established by your beloved Revolution. Don’t call us fascists. Nazis, or pagans. We are none of us members of a state-worshiping political cult, an esoteric blood-and-soil movement, or worshippers of Thor and Odin. We are Catholics who believe in the Spirit of Vatican I. We are Europeans and descendants of same who are proud of what we are.

    And we are coming to cast down this false, Enlightenment civilization and all its works and pomps.

    Deus vult!

    • Matt

      I think you mean he was had by an amateur.

    • Andy, Bad Person

      So what message board did this get posted to.

      “I lied to Shea, and he believed me. Aren’t I brilliant?”

      Men are free only in one sense: they are free to choose between the Truth and lies.


  • ivan_the_mad

    Oh dear, Mark, you dared connect this DE drivel to Hitler and the Nazis. You know how unpalatable that comparison is to some of your readership. There’s absolutely nothing in common with these groups, least of all a pernicious racist ideology. Clearly that’s just an ad hominem, you big meanie.

    The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien is, by the by, a delightful read of the thoughts of a brilliant mind on a variety of matters. But I was not pleasantly surprised to learn that Tolkien does not share an appreciation for and admiration of GKC’s writings (one day Saint!!! GKC, Deo volente). Oh well, de gustibus etc.

    • AntiGnostic

      Shea thinks he’s being clever quoting Tolkein but he’s not reading it too carefully. Tolkein clearly believed in a distinctive and noble Germanic spirit of which he considered the Austrian corporal a rude, ignorant perversion. Tolkein devoted his professional life to crafting a pre-Christian mythos for the English people, after all.

  • RobRoySimmons

    Basically put the ruling taboos of the these days are going away, and none of your conspiracy theories about secret groups will save them. One of those taboos is the one about questioning the fraud known as the “Blank Slate Theory”, good riddance to such leftist trash.
    Anyway Vox is having fun at your expense.

  • Scharlach

    Successful troll is successful. Shea, you’re a weeny and an affront to God.

  • Scharlach

    And, yes, we do have millions of dollars to play with, but most of us prefer playing with our Thor’s hammers. Although I personally like to play with my phenotype.

  • Scharlach

    If your spy had REALLY been on the island, he would have remembered the nubile young women we tied up and left to drown in the surf.

    • kenofken

      I didn’t see much, if any mention of women of any kind in this account. I don’t know, man. Strong Aryan men on a private island. “inspections”…this has a Brokeback Mountain/leathermen vibe about it with some notes of D&D fantasy and DaVinci Code conspiracy.

  • DE Sith Lord: Demosthenes

    Scharlach, you are henceforth demoted to the rank of Sith Dwarf. You know the rules, never detail what happens during a conclave. Never.

    • Scharlach

      A thousand apologies offered in your honor, Demosthones. I shall begin the ritual self-flagellation immediately.

  • Scharlach

    Shea must know that his book “This is My Body” actually shows a secret image of Christ preparing to check St. Paul’s phenotype.

    • Andy, Bad Person

      Racism? Check.
      Lies? Check.
      Blasphemy? Check.

      You’ve pretty much hit the dick trifecta today.

  • Fr. Denis Lemieux

    And… it is now officially impossible to distinguish the trolls from the parodists from the fantasists from the legitimate commentors, the actual DE people (whoever they are – never heard of this malarkey until a couple days ago), from people pretending to be DE people, from actual DE people making impossibly obscure in-jokes about what it means to be a DE person….
    Mark, I suggest you might want to give this subject a wide berth – the rabbit hole, it is strong with this one. Stick to safe, sane topics like whether women should wear pants (and just what are these ‘pants’ of which you speak, anyhow, I ask you) and what the hell IS wrong with Michael Voris, anyhoo, etc. Stuff that nobody will get upset with you over, y’know?

    • wlinden

      Dear Sir: I want to complain about people who keep writing to complain about Dark Reactionaries pretending to be trolls pretending to be Dark Reactionaries trolling. This is a serious problem, and something needs to be done right away!

      • Fr. Denis Lemieux

        Well, I complain about your complaint, so there! On a related point, I understand that rabbit holes, dug deep enough, will eventually reach China. Take that, DE type-people!

        • Paul Fallavollita

          China is actually the fail-safe…should the West not be saved by DE and fail, then it’s the Chinese that will inherit the earth (and they’ll likely exterminate their competitors, something that the white man quite never could bring himself to do). The Chinese also have a eugenics program that they’re working on, you may have seen some news reports to that effect, so the Life Force will continue to advance (just a little more slowly and in a little different direction than if it had been the West doing this).

          • Ben

            The Chinese are not an expansionist people. They’ve been conquered far more often than they’ve conquered, though they’re very adept at assimilating their conquerors.

      • Aaron

        I see many things! I see trolls within trolls!

  • LostSailorNY

    Not fair! I only got a Roissy decoder ring at my initiation! And they just kinda patted me down, no strip search. My coven chapter sucks. I’m going to have a firm talk with my Sith Lord, Darth Diculous…

  • Outis Nusquam

    The punishment for attacking things you don’t understand is looking like a fool when someone trolls you. Neoreaction/Dark Enlightenment is a loose network of thinkers on the internet who reject most of the principles of the French Revolution/Enlightenment for one reason or another. That’s it. There’s no secret island fortress, anyone can adopt the label, and he speaks for himself alone. You owe us all a big apology for this nonsense. Have the humility to do some research and use some critical thinking before passing yourself off as a “Catholic” “intellectual”.

    • Oh my gosh this is so *childish.*

      • Andy, Bad Person

        Lying is okay if you call it “trolling,” apparently.

    • kenofken

      You should have gone with the island fortress story. That’s scary cool and sinister. “…Loose network of thinkers on the internet who reject most of the principles of the French Revolution/Enlightenment…” – that leans more toward sad and creepy. It offers a picture of middle aged white guys cruising the net in their bedrooms in mom’s basement on a Saturday night because the Big Bang Theory guys stole their girlfriends and the local role-playing club finds them a little too weird to game with.

      • Outis Nusquam

        Hundreds of very sharp, accomplished young guys on five continents spend some free time networking on the internet to discuss how Western conservative movements have become a joke, and try to sketch out some better intellectual foundations for the cultural and political Right. Super sad and nerdy, bro. DYEL?

        • Ben

          For being so sharp your members can’t seem to grasp that nationalism and racialism are not in the least bit reactionary. They’re 19th Century ideas which, in the long view of things, means they’re new, radical, and innovative. Not reactionary.

          • Outis Nusquam

            We are not 19th century racial reductionists. Stop indulging in this vulgar American habit of giving your important, expert opinion on a subject before you have a grasp of the basic facts.

            • HornOrSilk

              No, you are 21st century racial reductionists, which is worse than the 19th century, just as post-Christian denial of Christ is worse than pre-Christian paganism.

          • Most of us – or at least myself – are trying to nip the nascent race war that’s brewing in the bud.

            You’re providing a false dichotomy; either A) all races & cultures are equal, identical, and interchangeable, or B) races must be in perpetual warfare, despising any and all differences.

            I’d argue that you’re not being a good Catholic.

            Catholicism understands what it means to handle serpents – that is, to adopt Pagan symbols and celebrations without becoming infected by the venom. Christmas in Europe – the Day of the Dead in Mexico. Both have been tamed by the Word.

            Catholicism is universal, *because* it’s not a one-size-fits-all ideology. It acknowledges differences in character and culture. It has something to say to the theologian, and something to say to the day labourer. It doesn’t press its Unviersalist stamp onto everyone, it offers a catholic path.

            You have to have blinders on not to notice that races and cultures are different, and that freedom is found through nationalism, rather than worshipping the United Nations. Comparing us to Hitler is ridiculous; Tolkien recognized different races (taking pride in his German heritage), while holding Hitler’s pseudo-scientific/mystical theory in contempt.

            He’s closer to our side; not yours.

            • CJ

              The problem with this is that racial separatism DOESN”T prevent wars because 1) people of the same race war amongst themselves and 2) ethnic nations will leave their enclaves to war against other peoples. Separatism is neither necessary nor sufficient for the purpose you claim it serves.

  • Lynn Grace Corbin-Loehmann

    Only a Prog Catholic could be this susceptible….and utterly stupid.

  • CJ

    I feel embarrassed FOR Mark, but every now and then he needs to take it on the chin to get his bearings. I’m sure he’ll come back the better for it. And I was enjoying my discussion with Anti-Gnostic, so the thread isn’t a complete loss.

  • Paul Fallavollita

    Mark, there’s definitely truth mixed in there, especially where the claim is made that “They say the Master Lord says ‘Et Ego in Arcadia’ which is an anagram for ‘Tego Arcana Dei’ (“I hide the secrets of God”). I’d refer you to the curriculum of the Guild of the Grail, which in retrospect is/was a proto-DE esoteric organization: https://web.archive.org/web/20040225125742/http://members.cox.net/guildofthegrail/lac.html

  • Wilshire

    poor Mr. Shea staggering around in the dark playing pin the tail on the donkey

  • Wilshire

    “you’ll get ’em next time there, sport!”

  • LostSailorNY

    And the DE are reading this and chanting et nos a vobis, et illusisti

    My personal chant is Ego sum, ego ludus

  • Perfection

    This is almost as hilarious as when Obama got trolled by that fake signer at the Mandela funeral, except we’re talking mid double-digit IQ baffoon-trolling, vs, well… art.

  • Gunnar Thalweg

    I don’t remotely believe one word of the pagan and ceremonial weirdness described by that reader — it sounds like something out of Jack Chick.

    I do believe this: As far as the “Dark Enlightenment,” it appears that we have an authentic social movement. Mark is correct to see them as dangerous. The devil plays both sides of the fence. Just as he has corrupted our elites into imposing abortion-on-demand, racial preferences, and same-sex “marriage” on the country, he now seeks an extremist counter-movement. Weimar followed by Nazis; Tsarist autocracy followed by Soviet totalitarianism; Peronistas followed by military juntas.

    Let’s make some distinctions: In DE, there is a serious and legitimate criticism of western culture, and a crucial one is the sexual revolution doesn’t work. It fills in a lot of gaps that the Catholic Church never effectively explained, namely, why you shouldn’t sleep around, and why our culture is destroying itself believing lies about the sexual revolution. The DE types explained it quite clearly and quite well (it boils down to polygamous and hypergamous impulses run riot). You ignore that explanation at your peril, or you can simply obey the Church. But it’s a lot easier to obey when you know why.

    However, DE types go other other direction on the sexual revolution, and say, OK, let’s exploit this to the fullest extent, to gratify our needs at others’ expense. This is where they get sociopathic and evil.

    Next up is race. I have watched over the past six years as this movement went from pointing out hypocrisy to discussing what boils down to white separatism. There is enormous hypocrisy on race in this country, from the flagrant and unbridled racism of minority groups to attempting to shut down any discussion on race other than the party line. DE is reacting to that, and watch out where that goes. I believe in taking everyone as an individual, and I have no use for racists on any side. The DE here is authentically dangerous.

    DE is supposedly materialistic, but no one ever remains there, at least not in one generation.

    Overall, stick to Church teaching. But with the right set of eyes, you can see through the DE what the Church was trying to warn you against, if that makes any sense.

  • GregHood

    Successful troll is successful.

    • Jeroniomus

      Haha, that’s what I thought too! I posted about this at my blog and said that the “young reader” is probably trolling Mark Shea.

  • stevesailer

    No, the money comes from their 2009 discovery of the secret tomb of Genghis Khan.

  • Ben

    Sure a Truly Traditional Catholic would never dilute his pure blood by mixing with the brown mud peo-oh wait:


    But hey everyone knows the Spanish of that era were a bunch of wussy beta multi cultis. Just ask the Moors!

    • joo spotted. tell me, what species did your people mix with to develop fish-lips and tiny horns on your heads?

      • Ben

        I’m a Catholic convert, baptized and raised in the Episcopal Church (AKA America’s Whitest Church ™ ) I’m afraid I’m as WASP er, WASC as they come.

        • CJ

          Don’t feed ’em, Ben.

  • ivan_the_mad

    Oh my. It is clear that many have come here to argue strenuously that they’re of a juvenile cast of mind, and to beg not to be taken seriously given their adolescent mischief. This of course does not detract from the pernicious nature of such noxious convictions, it merely adduces once again that sin makes one very stupid indeed.

    • Ben


      Remember: Wilson in nationalism is “reactionary”! They hate the French Revolution but love nationalism! Also people never race mix, ever, especially not Catholics – please ignore Latin America and the Phillipines because SHUT UP THATS WHY.

      L.. O… L. I want to hit some of these people over the head with a European history textbook. God have mercy…

    • It is clear that you are on that phaggy time, lol

    • HornOrSilk

      Which is quite common with other radical groups that have brought destruction to the world. They have to have a bit of a sadistic juvenile streak to work.

  • stevesailer

    The intern obviously didn’t reach the level where they get taken to the headquarters inside the Hollow Earth.

  • I spent my initiation greasing up Mark Shea’s tight little cornhole and pumping it full of my Muslim man-cream.

  • Legolas

    Some peasant has revealed our secrets, and for that he shall be flogged by our most vicious enforcer… Faramir.

  • roo_ster

    Please tell me this Shea character was in on the joke? Because it is really sad otherwise.

  • Chance Boudreaux

    The Trolling is strong with this One. Science is racism now, eh?

  • Jeroniomus

    What part of “Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery” don’t you understand, Mark Shea? That is the commandment against race mixing. Racism is not a sin, it’s a Commandment! You, sir, are the heretic.

  • Stu


    • HornOrSilk

      Clearly, something more than a “punking” has gone on, which is why the reactionaries are here with full venom.

      • Stu

        There are doing a victory lap. Tasteless at times, but a victory lap nonetheless.

        • HornOrSilk

          It’s something else — again, the venom shows this

        • chad

          Their lap is providing more insight than the initial punk. The sinister has a habit of overplaying their hand.

          • HornOrSilk


          • Stu

            So does youth.

        • chezami

          Let them have their fun.

          • Stu

            I do like it when we agree. It’s not worth getting down in the mud with them.

            But I do think you give them way too much attention.

  • The Wild Goose

    I, too, worry about certain questionable premises behind Neoreaction, but Shea’s gullibility here fills me with what the Dutch call “plaatsvervangende schaamte”. Watching mainstream thinkers try to argue against the Dark Enlightenment is like watching the French defending themselves against the Manstein Plan, except hilariously funny rather than terrifying and sad. Conventional political thought is a Maginot Line built on the bedrock of democratic egalitarianism; by completely rejecting democracy and egalitarianism, the Neoreactionaries are doing an end-run through Belgium, and nobody seems to know what to do about it, other than squwaking about eeeevil they are for not fighting fair. That’s too bad, because the DE types need more intelligent, focused criticism than they’ve been getting. From the look of postings like this, they’ll continue to clobber all opponents in debate until their heads are too swollen from victory to ever be properly deflated.

    • Porter

      About which questionable premise are you most worried?

    • yurtfeelings

      “That’s too bad, because the DE types need more intelligent, focused criticism than they’ve been getting.”



    • Cimon Alexander

      If they understood the dark enlightenment, they would be corrupted. So they must write about it without understanding. Histrionics and hilarity ensue.

  • This Rough Beast

    Does Shea know that the New Right and Identitarians which the DE is *to an extent* inspired by take their German heritage from the Conservative Revolution, not Hitler? One of the more illustrious of that number was a certain Col. von Stauffenberg, who attempted the assassination of Hitler depicted in the movie Operation Valkyrie. Good lord, at least try to pretend some research was done here.

    Funny though, I actually agree with Tolkein on his sentiments about the northern tradition. You’d think they would have found that one out sometime between when I made sacrifice to Darwin on the Galapagos Islands and when we burned Rousseau in effigy on our island gathering.

  • Porter

    The obnoxious racial advocacy displayed by some is definitely something we will discuss tonight at the AJC meeting.

  • anna lisa

    Nerds! Gotta love ’em!

  • Holy crap, Mark. Whatever else this is, it’s a radioactive tar-baby of evil.

    • Porter

      “Radioactive tar-baby of evil.”

      Hoary racist tropes never seem to die.

  • Ariston

    Anyone buying this needs to go back and take Internet 101.

  • You got masterfully trolled though to be honest I wish some of the ceremonial parts were this was true. It sounds a lot more fun than the real DE or Freemasonry for that matter s.

    Also Norse Pagans would probably just make an oath and keep it but if they did use a book likely they’d swear on the Havamal not the Prose Edda

  • chad

    The jeers, the snickers, the pride, oh my. These are not an attractive bunch of ladies. Barge pole being extended…nnnnow.

  • yurtfeelings

    “- The Dark Enlightenment allegedly has millions of dollars of money to play with. They have a couple big donors. One is rumored to be a major tech tycoon in Silicon Valley. They actually had a private 3-day meeting on an island which was furnished with a French chef, etc. Different forms of formal attire were required for each day (tuxedos, 3-piece suits, etc), and some weird costumes were required too (capes, hoods, etc) — which sound like a pagan cult. (I wasn’t at this function but heard about it.)”

    That’s just normal social life in the Bay Area. Really.

  • yurtfeelings

    I mean wow, millions of dollars huh. Maybe they can buy…. a whole apartment!

  • Rachel

    Granted there are exaggerations in this post but I’ve come across this BS before. My husband and I were once friend with a couple (they were even going to be in our wedding) but things fell apart when their true colors were revealed. They espoused this racialist BS. It is truly nasty. People for centuries have migrated to many different places, intermingled and married, creating new groups and fusing cultures. There is nothing wrong with this. Race is an artificial construct anyway. We are all part of the human race. Are there certain types of diseases that show up in other ethnic groups, etc? Sure but that doesn’t mean we can’t get together. There is no pure race. That is impossible. The color of skin and region where they came from should not matter. What does matter is one’s character, beliefs, etc. I welcome diversity and I’m happy that the Church welcomes it too. Again, we are all part of the human race and historically, we have fused together in many ways. I think that the world is better for it.

  • Elmwood

    I never met any of the higher Eldars, but I did once meet an Eldar in Training. I don’t know his real name but people called him Legolas. He had long blond hair, was dressed like a 19th century count, and wore a pendant that had both a Christian Cross and Thor’s Hammer on it.

    What a dork, where was Stan Gable when you needed him. the worst part is they don’t even know they are such gaywads. and they and the angry atheists wonder why they can’t meet women.

  • Paradox

    Dude… some of us in DE are so radically traditional we are know as Athenians. We believe in an ancient political craft, thousands of years old, practiced as far back as 550 BC. The craft goes by the name of Athenian democracy. See… we believe that direct democracy is the only form of government that can protect liberty. In contrast to Athenianism, a republican form of government is anti-liberty. The US (a republic) is controlled by a tyrannical oligarchy called the Supreme Court. The members are NOT elected and are appointed for LIFE. The tyrannical Supreme Court has taken away all kinds of liberty away from US citizens and allowed mothers to kill their own babies.

    Now, Athenianism does have one element of republicanism i.e. limited political franchise. Only people who have earned the right to vote should be allowed to. Like the Terrian Federation in Robert A. Heinlein’s Starship Troopers.