It’s somehow consoling to know that Jews can be as nuts as Catholics

It’s somehow consoling to know that Jews can be as nuts as Catholics August 8, 2015

So here’s a story about some Jews who have voted themselves into being the new Sanhedrin of Israel and have announced that they plan to try Pope Francis.

No word yet on whether Pope Michael, the *true* reigning pope, plans to try the Sanhedrin.

"You mean like trump, Maduro, Putin, Assad, Kim Jung, Chavez, Castro, etc, etc, etc,...... I ..."

Where Peter Is has a nice ..."
"People aren't born evil, but some (just binge watched Ted Bundy on Netflix) have something ..."

Where Peter Is has a nice ..."
"Needless hostility. Goodness, you don't even know me.I have never called the Pope a heretic. ..."

Where Peter Is has a nice ..."
"Sorry. I can't hear you over the screams of thousands of the Greatest Catholics of ..."

Where Peter Is has a nice ..."

Browse Our Archives

Follow Us!


TRENDING AT PATHEOS Catholic
What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • Marthe Lépine

    Here is something that I have been considering for some time: To those among North Americans who are so keen on supporting Israel because they claim that the land belongs to the Jews even though Palestinians have been living on it for some 1500 years, I would like to remind them that Europeans and their descendants have lived in North America for about a mere 500 years. Therefore, if you are serious about the Jews’ claims, why are you still living in North (and South) America? The land belongs to the Aboriginals, so please pack up and go back to wherever your ancestors came from, or Shut Up!

    • Rachel

      Very good point 🙂

    • HornOrSilk

      “It’s different. Indians are not in the Bible” said many a Zionist

      • Steve

        “Oh yeah?” said many a Mormon. 😉

    • Guest

      That’s fine, but technically those tribes would have to then give the land back to whatever unknown tribes they trampled to get it. “Native Americans” are not a homogenous group.

      Or we could just acknowledge that every bit of desirable land on this planet has been aggressively conquered multiple times and deal with things as they are now rather than how they should have been generations ago. There’s a certain amount of injustice in uprooting people who were born in a certain place to people who were born in that place, even if your goal is to return the land to the people who should have been born in that place.

      I guess what I’m trying to say is that people shouldn’t ever steal and that stolen property should generally be returned, but when it comes to territory there simply isn’t any territory with a truly clean title – so where does it stop?

      • Dave G.

        “Native Americans” are not a homogenous group.

        That’s an obvious statement, and yet the modern popular narrative seems to miss that point.

        • Hezekiah Garrett

          Yet, homogeneous or not, every inch of your nation lies on land stolen by force or fraud, from people who actually knew how to tend and care for it.

          I know, I know, you have high ideals which offset your genocidal violence.

          • Pete the Greek

            “from people who actually knew how to tend and care for it.”
            – The ‘Noble Savage’ is a bullsh*t myth that has no business existing outside of an Enya album cover. They were also quite brutal against each other and engaged in ethnic cleansing as well. They could be just a virtuous as great westerners. They could also be as brutal, vile and evil as some of the worst westerners.

            So, they were human.

            • Hezekiah Garrett

              Of course they were.

              But that hasn’t anything to do with my assertion that we were far better stewards of this Continent than the purveyors of strip malls and strip mines who currently occupy it.

              So, non sequitur.

              • Pete the Greek

                You’re right. Casinos are much better.

                You missed the point. Quite a few of the lands that various native people claim are their ‘ancestral homes’ were actually the native lands of OTHER people, until they showed up, murdered a ton of them and ethnically cleansed them from the region. So, it’s really not theirs either.

                • Marthe Lépine

                  Maybe not casinos, but trying to live in harmony with our common home is not a bad idea…

                  • Pete the Greek

                    No argument from me there. I simply get very annoyed when people who ought to know better peddle the bullsh*t idea that Indians were all ‘Peace, Love and Recycle hippies who only differed from modern Progressives in that they lived in tents.’ It’s the view of idiots who get their history from watching Avatar or Pocahontas (actually the same movie).

                    Did the US government, particularly that sainted, Mother-Teresa-in-a-stovepipe-hat George Bush prequel that Republicans bend the knee to, Abraham Lincoln, screw the Indians over every chance they got? Oh, you bet they did. There’s no denying that.

                    But lying in the other direction is just as bad. One of the interesting things about the historical research that has been ongoing in the US is leaning about the number of wars and ethnic cleansing that the Indians did against each other.

                    • Hezekiah Garrett

                      I didn’t peddle any such claptrap. What annoys me are semi-literate slumlords who make unfounded inferences.

                      Our land management techniques 500yrs ago far surpass even your culture’s current methods and techniques. We neither weaponize all technology to rape the earth, nor fetishize wilderness until it chokes in random infernos. We controlled and directed a forest that stretched over 1/3 of a continent, making it productive for our needs, by a multitude of techniques.

                      Oh, and unlike your hippies ( really, all your ancestors) we bathed frequently.

                    • Marthe Lépine

                      As far as I know, I tend to agree about aboriginal land management techniques. A contemporary parallel could be the agricultural techniques of small family farms in many developing countries to-day, that begin to be recognized as actual organic farming- let us just hope that the likes of Monsanto don’t succeed in replacing such techniques by so-called more “efficient” ones. As well, I don’t think that the argument that maybe in a distant past there were “wars and ethnic cleansing that the Indians did against each other” is good enough to justify later invasions by Europeans. Of course, even if I can talk (or write) the talk, I might find it quite difficult to go back to where my own ancestors came from, although my brother seems to have done it quite successfully, even if it was not for the reasons discussed here…

                    • Michael Lynch

                      The sustainability of Native American land management depends on which group in which place and time you’re talking about. In New England ca. 1650, Indian land use was much less invasive and destructive than that of contemporary Euroamerican settlers. On the other hand, there’s quite a bit of evidence that deforestation due to slash-and-burn agriculture and building techniques contributed to the collapse of the Maya; the big Mesoamerican societies were much more rapacious consumers of resources than Eastern Woodland groups. Environmental degradation exacerbated by land use practices might have led to the abandonment of the big complexes in the American Southwest, too.

                      Environmental history is really fascinating stuff, lots of neat cross-disciplinary work out there. It’s neat to read scholarship on early land use techniques because you get a mix of documentary research, archaeology, climatology, etc.

                    • falstaff77

                      “big Mesoamerican societies were much more rapacious consumers of resources than Eastern Woodland groups.”

                      Don’t underestimate the Northern neighbors; they likely exterminated the N. American megafauna. So there is that to factor into their “land management techniques”.

                    • Pete the Greek

                      “wars and ethnic cleansing that the Indians did against each other” is good enough to justify later invasions by Europeans
                      – They aren’t and I’m not implying that they ever were. I was simply dispelling the ever present, maddening BS myth of the peaceful, child-like native who was, like, just totally just sitting here eating sustainable, organic hummus until the evil white man showed up and destroyed everything.

                    • Dave G.

                      Hey, that’s how my boys learned it in school. And PBS even had a special about that very same thing. So don’t knock it.

                    • Pete the Greek

                      Yeah, when I was in school they served us up the same antifreeze to drink. Oh, along with that were the classics such as “The Civil War was all about slavery and how everybody in the south hated black people and all the northern people just LOVED them sooooo much”, “Galileo proved with his telescope that the Earth was round, but the priests wouldn’t look into his telescope because they thought it was bewitched” and OOOOOh so many more.

                    • Dave G.

                      You heard the old ‘the Pope wouldn’t look through the telescope because he knew he was wrong’ story? I thought that was regional. But my favorite was last year at Thanksgiving. PBS had a special about the pilgrims. My boys and I watched it. It was a hoot. My boys noticed some of the subtleties in the production. They said the actors playing the pilgrims must have been told to be on a three month long Big Mac diet, followed by not showering or brushing their teeth for two weeks before shooting began. The Native American actors, on the other hand, must have been given daily access to a fitness gym, followed by hourly make up sessions by Hollywood glamour professionals. That was just one case in the production. The content went beyond that. It reminded me of the two part special on Islam that PBS ran shortly after 9/11. I almost converted. And why not? Was there ever a more perfect, beautiful and peace loving religion than Islam? That is, of course, until the genocidal racist Catholics showed up and ruined everything. I guess the lesson is, why learn from history when we can repeat it instead.

                    • Pete the Greek

                      “followed by not showering or brushing their teeth for two weeks before shooting began.”
                      – I’ve noticed similar things with medieval flicks too. Always reminds me of this part:

                      https://youtu.be/6FvX_Suj11s?t=1m39s

                    • Hezekiah Garrett

                      Except, no one but you introduced such a thing into this discussion, as I’ve repeatedly pointed out to you.

                    • Pete the Greek

                      No, your response of a day ago to Dave G reeked of it. That’s why I responded in the first place.

                      Hey Indians did some good stuff, so did the Scythians, Dacians and other nomadic/tribal/barbarian people Western Civilization encountered/absorbed.

                      Difference is you don’t usually find people romanticizing the Scythians and saying about how they were all tuned in to the mother earth spirit and cried every time a Roman soldier threw away some trash.

                    • Dave G.

                      Your passionate love for and celebration of your ancestors is admirable. Please understand many others are equally proud of their ancestors, as I am (and that includes my Native American ancestors as well as my European ancestors).

                    • Pete the Greek

                      Well, if we’re playing civilization one-upsmanship…

                      We put men on the moon, cured polio, built cathedrals and universities, raised life expectancy by 40 some odd years and wrote Hamlet.

                      Native American tribes put bones in their noses and never discovered the wheel.

                      So… how about instead of strutting like silly peacocks about things than neither you nor I have directly accomplished, we just meander back on to the original subject?

                    • jaybird1951

                      I recommend a book titled “The Great Plains” written by an Englishman who spent three years touring and studying the region from the Texas panhandle to the headwaters of the Missouri. His stories of the various Plains tribes are illuminating, including the tribes that were hated by their neighbors for their garbage habits. No ecologists there.

                  • Funny about that, the US apparently has more trees now than when the europeans arrived. If that’s your metric, we’re doing better than the previous inhabitants.

                    It’s not self-evident without actual metrics and measurements who wins any civilizational comparison and this one is no different. One civilization can’t break the back of child mortality and its low population figures don’t, in total, press on the environment as badly as another civilization that has figured out how to keep its people alive much better. Is that low environmental impact admirable or not?

                • Hezekiah Garrett

                  Yeah, Indians invented casinos! Pull the other leg, it plays ‘Jingle Bells’.

                  As to this point you think I missed, you mean something like the conquest of Canaan?

                  • Pete the Greek

                    I’m not sure what Canaan has to do with the noble savage myth.

                    • Hezekiah Garrett

                      “You missed the point. Quite a few of the lands that various native people claim are their ‘ancestral homes’ were actually the native lands of OTHER people, until they showed up, murdered a ton of them and ethnically cleansed them from the region. So, it’s really not theirs either.”

                      What was that you were saying, Pete?

                    • Pete the Greek

                      ???? I didn’t use any big words that might have confused you. I think my point was fairly obvious.

              • Marthe Lépine

                And not to forget open pit mines, and digging for oil contained in sand, and tailing ponds or other that kill hundreds of wild birds (see today’s news in Canada) and oil spills, and…

              • Incompetence at population growth does not equal being good stewards.

              • Sue Korlan

                On the other hand, the fires they normally burned to keep the land in control went wild, as a result of which Boston was deserted when the Puritans arrived there.

                • Hezekiah Garrett

                  Um, try smallpox. But nice try.

                  • Sue Korlan

                    No, smallpox was relevant in other areas, for instance where the Pilgrims settled, but not in Boston. That place was burned out.

              • jaybird1951

                Wasn’t the horse virtually wiped out on the North American continent by native Americans before some managed to make it to northern Asia and keep the species alive? The mass killings of buffalo did not match what the white men later did but they were mass killings anyway. Then there were the occasional slaughters of neighboring tribes. We don’t have to go south of the border and discuss what the Aztecs did to their enemies on those temple altars.

          • Dave G.

            That’s true in probably every inch of the planet after the first people who ever lived.

          • So, no indians ever sold land to europeans. There never was a case where a voluntary exchange took place. Or are you one of those people that consider Indians of that era to be child like beings incapable of handling their economic affairs?

            • Pete the Greek

              Well, in the Indian’s defense, in a few of those buy/sell transactions, when asked if they would be paying with cash, check or charge, the US Government opted instead for the “haha f**k you” payment arrangement.

              • It is the “every inch” aspect I am disagreeing with. I fully recognize that sometimes the Indians were treated unjustly.

          • Sue Korlan

            No, Kentucky was a no man’s land between native nations in the days when the whites began to settle there.

            • Hezekiah Garrett

              Kantuckee was disputed territory claimed and partly occupied by multiple tribes for centuries before Adgakala sold the Cherokee interest to Boone. It was, to put it in modern terms, a hunting preserve, very intensively managed for thousands of years. You should really read what your own people wrote about the land they found.

          • Pete the Greek

            Don’t get mad because some of your ancestors preferred a bunch of glass beads and kitchen utensils to owning the eastern US.

            • Sue Korlan

              That’s unfair given that many nations sold the land of other peoples to the whites, who weren’t overly concerned about who really owned it provided they have a bill of sale.

    • The original and continuous occupation argument doesn’t work for you. I get that. I don’t lend it much weight either.

      Usually if there are two reasons, one legally valid, the other invalid, for someone to win a legal question, the existence of an invalid reason doesn’t trump the valid one.

      The UK had the mandate to settle the affairs of the Ottomans in that particular area and gave land to the jews as well as creating a hashemite kingdom (Jordan) and proposing an arab entity that was rejected. The jews then went on to win a few defensive wars and settled the borders somewhere vaguely acceptable from a military point of view.

    • Rebecca Fuentes

      How long back are we going? I’m descended from the last of the Brandenburgs, and I hear the estates are pretty cool.

      • Pete the Greek

        Were they white and European? If so, I think that probably disqualifies you from getting anything.

        • Rebecca Fuentes

          How does this work for my kids, too? I might be white, European, and almost as evil as a white, European male, but my husband is Mexican. So, where do they get “sent back” to?

  • Pete the Greek

    This has the makings for an awesome Epic Rap Battle.

  • bob

    The Secretariat of the Court of Mount Zion”
    Wow. Please note, ain’t nobody saying *elders* of Zion! What a hoot.

  • orual’s kindred

    I’m pretty late to this discussion, but if anyone would be so kind to instruct me as to why some Christians/conservatives seem particularly adamant about championing the political interests of Israel, I would greatly appreciate it.