From 95% To 5% Church Attendance: Clergy Overreach Or Evil Feminists?

From 95% To 5% Church Attendance: Clergy Overreach Or Evil Feminists? July 30, 2018

Depending on your perspective, the demise of the Roman Catholic Church in Quebec is due either to the evil force of longstanding clergy overreach or the evil force of the feminist movement that began in the 1960’s.

evil clergy overreach or evil feminist movement

The statistic shocks: in the city of Quebec, Canada, 95 % of the entire population attended weekly Mass in the 1950’s. Now, 5% do. Since the ’50’s, 547 churches have been closed, sold or transformed.

New owners range from theatrical companies to dance venues to cheese factories. A former monastery is now a university dormitory, with the floor of the basement standing over multiple graves that could not be moved because of fear of typhoid. Another church saw some if its pews turned into bars for what the article called “alcohol-fueled banquets.”

What happened? Why the big surge away from the dominant cultural glue that had held the community together from the beginning of its founding?

Well, depending on your perspective, it’s either the evil force of longstanding clergy overreach or the evil force of the feminist movement that began in the 1960’s.

And what, exactly, DID the church do that might be considered clergy overreach? Keeping in mind that the church, having extreme societal control because of their sheer numbers, also opposed divorce and insisted that women reproduce without restraint.

For this article, the New York Times reporter interviewed Gérald St-Georges, a non-observant Roman Catholic. He is also the driving force behind the remodeling of the beautiful and long-standing church, Notre-Dame-du-Perpétuel-Secours, into the current Théâtre Paradoxe.

St-Georges had this to say: “The clergy crossed the line into people’s private lives, so people rebelled.”

His particular story? His mother had already born nine children. She was ill, worn-down. Her priest insisted that she have a 10th. She did, and she died shortly after. The child born just before her death was St-Georges himself.

Now some might say St-Georges’ life made up for his mother’s death. But that is not how he sees it. He strongly affirms the feminist sentiment that now quite fully informs the culture of Quebec. He also believes the church did indeed mistreat the area’s mothers and grandmothers. The community now says a strong “NO MORE” to such treatment and have nearly completely abandoned the church and its teachings.

Remember, Ireland has just now said a firm “NO” to the Roman Catholic Church there. Centuries of church/state rule included sanctioning such horrors as the infamous Magdalen Laundries. There, young women who become pregnant out of wedlock saw their babies taken and were themselves enslaved as ever-laboring laundresses under the watchful and cruel eyes of Roman Catholic clerics and nuns.

Now, the Irish have said NO MORE. In May, citizens overwhelmingly voted to remove all restrictions on abortion up until 20 weeks gestation. Until this vote, abortion was completely illegal, even as mothers died preventable deaths. Clerical overreach perhaps?

But again, such societal decisions can also be laid at the feet of that evil force called feminism, which is doing a decent job transforming much of the Western world and is beginning to extend its powerful influence into third world countries.

So, what hath the feminist movement of the last 50 or 60 years wrought? Women already had the vote in the US, thanks to pioneering and courageous women of our grandmother’s and great-grandmother’s generations.

Now, women can now own property; women can have credit in their own names; women can find success in previously male-only dominions and professions; women can and do choose when to reproduce and when not to reproduce; women can initiate divorce when being mistreated by their husbands rather than hoping that their abusive spouses commit adultery and get caught at this so the church will give its OK to leave beatings behind.

These sound like basic human rights to me–but then, what I do know? I’m just a woman who has chosen to devote herself to the love of God and neighbor. Worse, I’m part of the rebellion that began in the late ’60’s against overwhelming male hegemony in every area of life.

My goal was and remains simple: to recognize myself and all others as fully human, fully in the image of God, not in any sense “lesser than” by virtue of anatomy, color, gender identification, left-handedness or any other thing that has been used from the beginning of time to categorize some as “acceptable” and some as “unacceptable.”

But let me return to this original article for a moment. After reading it, being shocked and concerned about what has happened to the hope of Christian presence and of the Gospel in Quebec, I read the comments that various people made concerning the situation. Almost to a person, they cheered on the nearly complete secularization and disappearance of the church.

Why? Because they’ve had enough. They’ve had enough of the church continuing to demean and demonize those marked with the “not-good-enough” symbol.

For a long time, it has been women so marked. As we women made strides, the church almost uniformly turned against the gay and lesbian community. They broadened the unacceptable label to include anyone who does not fit into unbreachable “male” or “female” categories.

The church has drawn its line. Yet once more, the church stands firmly on the losing side of justice, mercy, loving-kindness and the all-encompassing movement of grace that characterizes the Holy Lover, the Creator of all.

As has gone most of Europe, as goes Quebec and the larger nation of Canada, so will also go the US. We, the people of faith, determined to make sure that we must condemn some to face eternity in the everlasting torment of fire and agony, have condemned ourselves to extinction.

May God have mercy upon us all.

Photo Credit: Gratisography Retro Virtual Reality; Free Photo —By Ryan McGuire

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  • Ivan T. Errible

    Church is boring. It should lose its tax privileges.

    • Linda Coleman Allen

      Church is indeed boring as it is now. It could be better in many ways. Since churches are businesses they should lose the tax privilege.

    • Adrian

      Let’s hope they don’t, as that would be a violation of the separation of church and state.

      Not sure why the degree of boringness should be a gauge of whether it should have to pay taxes.

  • Tom Hope

    The first Christians loved one another and shared all things. But, since then, organised Christianity has totally screwed up the Gospel, and the churches deserve to fail. Particularly the modern conservative evangelical movement, a monstrous heresy.

    • Widuran

      What on Earth are you talking about?

    • The Antagonizer

      You mean ZIONIST Christians.

    • Mr. James Parson

      They did?

      • Tom Hope

        Acts 2:43-46

        • Mr. James Parson

          Thank you for your reply.

  • Widuran

    That is a massive drop.

    The Catholic Church is not the real Church of Christ. It has many false doctrines.

    As a whole the Church has become feminine and weak (due to female leaders which is unbliblical and going away from Gods word)

    A true Christ centred church will never be boring as God will engage people and lead people onto adventures in this sinful fallen world.

    • Brianna LaPoint

      The catholics will tell you youre the liars and the pretenders. You know what? this is why i left christianity because youre all a bunch of self serving, ignorant troglodytes that think that youre going to heaven. This is why christianity is dropping. the real reason, is because christians are selfish, greedy and ignorant and it shows in how they attack each other. Im a Buddhist and since god is the final judge according to EVERY christian, youd best shut your mouth before i shut it.

      • Widuran

        I come from a Buddhist country and in Sri Lanka they are the most violent people burning churches and killing non believers. In fact they believe that if they own Buddhas tooth they can run the country. So you are part of a group who lie and pretend and are hypocrites.

        How on Gods green Earth will you shut me up?

        • Brianna LaPoint

          Oh i wonder why theyre so violent. It wasnt like you did anything wrong now was it? Innocent christian missionaries being all peaceful like. Cut the crap, I read a history book, and there are two sides to every story, I somehow doubt the christians are innocent here.

          • Widuran

            I know Sri Lanka and it is you who talks crap through your prejudice and ignorance

        • Barros Serrano

          Oh Sri Lanka! Are you Sinhalese?

          In the U$A when you say you’re “Asian” we think of East Asia, while in the UK they think of South Asia.

          Due to your extreme fascism, I just assumed you were one of Pol Pot’s lieutenants…

          • Widuran

            I would answer but as you continue with your cowardly attacks I will treat you as the bigot you are

        • Barros Serrano

          Really… take a look at history, and we find that the Buddhists are likely the most peaceful of all the major religions, with Hindus 2nd.

          Christianity is also 2nd, in violence, surpassed only by Islam.

          • Widuran

            Not in Sri Lanka

            The Christians you quote as violent do not follow the Bible not New Testament

          • Barros Serrano

            I am aware of certain things about Sri Lanka. One is that the Sinhalese govt committed extreme brutality in the war against the Tamil Eelam. This was in fact surprising to us in the West who see Buddhism as peaceful, which it usually is. But in that case, the Buddhists were not peaceful, you are right about that. Another sad example is from Myanmar.

            But altogether through history NO religion can come close to the misery and suffering caused by Islam and Christianity. Hindus had wars in and around India but never behaved as brutally as the Moslems and Christians. Buddhists have been historically even less brutal. There are always exceptions. The Khmer, for example, when Hindu, slaughtered the Indian traders in the country. And the Thai have committed assorted outrages against the Khmer, both Buddhist.

            It is sad that the persistence of the hopeless violent uprising by the Tamil Eelam was in part due to the influence of a radical British woman who was married to one of the group’s leaders. I generally support such movements, but when they are simply inciting violent govt reprisals and getting people killed, their radicalism may seem noble but it is pointless. The same situation I saw in Guatemala, where the guerrillas continued a hopeless uprising when the govt was responding by massacring large numbers of people.

            I understand why you are hot about the violence committed by Buddhists if you are from Sri Lanka, I get that. Since I follow Dharma in a Western amalgamated syncretic sort of way, I do maintain some awareness of the S Indian countries.

            So, I am interested to know… are you Tamil? Your family in Sri Lanka, they have been Christian for a long time? I’ve known Christians from Chennai with the surname Thomas, after the Apostle who preached in India.

          • Widuran

            Christianity is not the cause of these atrocities it is western “values” using bad theology as an excuse

    • guadalupelavaca

      The problem with this article is that it focuses on just one area of the world where Catholicism is declining. World wide the Catholic church is growing and in fact has never had as many members as it does today. There are 1.2 BILLION Catholics world wide. In California where I live we are more than 25% of the population and GROWING. About one third of LA county is Catholic. My neighboring county to the south, Orange County, recently purchased Robert Schuler’s defunct Chrystal Cathedral. Orange County went from Protestant to Catholic. The cathedral is being remodeled to make it Catholic, and has been renamed the Christ Cathedral. It will have one of the largest organs in the world.

      • Widuran

        Interesting it is growing in some areas and the Pope is one of the better popes. But I disagree with some of the Roman Catholic doctrines.

        • guadalupelavaca

          And there are many Catholics who disagree with the Church on one matter or another. Now, if you dont believe in the Nicene Creed, well then we have a problem.

          • Widuran

            I believe it

          • Barros Serrano

            The Nicaean Creed is a creation of Constantine and his convocation of Bishops, and was designed for social control. Constantine himself was not a Christian… does that not bother any of you?

    • Mr. James Parson

      Has anyone ever declared your Church to be false? How did you react to it?

      • Widuran

        Yes but my church is not false and certainly does not follow heresies like the roman catholics

        • guadalupelavaca

          What church is your church?

          • Widuran

            I am a new frontiers man

          • guadalupelavaca

            Never heard of that religion/church.

          • Widuran

            It is a Christian denomination

          • guadalupelavaca

            You are a victim of false information.
            1.We do NOT pray to Mary. That is a common lie spread amongst protestants. She is venerated, but not prayed to.

            2. As for the cup of his blood just let me refer you to John 6:53.

            3. Never heard that the Pope is related to the apostles. Another lie, probably perpetrated by your church leaders.

          • Widuran

            So why do Catholics pray to Mary?

            The cup is true

            What is the popes relationship to Paul the apostle?

          • guadalupelavaca

            They dont pray to Mary. False information that you got from somebody. Even your own church doesnt say that.

            The Cup is Jesus’ blood. See john 6:53

            The Pope has no relationship with Paul or any of the apostles. They lived a long time ago. Not sure who is feeding you these lies but you’re falling for them hook line and sinker. The Pope is called the Vicar of Christ, not Vicar of Paul or Peter.

          • Widuran

            The cup is not his literal blood

            Who is the pope and why is he chosen and the pope

          • guadalupelavaca

            The Pope’s official title is the Bishop of Rome. He is the leader of the church. Just as a congregation has a pastor to lead them, so too does the Catholic church.

          • Widuran

            I will look into this when time permits

          • Barros Serrano

            Check out the Catholic rap on the form of the mass. They claim it is based on a description in Revelation, that the entire mass is in fact in accord with the instructions given in the NT.

            They do have good historical bases for their doctrine and practices. I’m not saying I believe all of it, but it is not spuriously conceived.

          • Widuran

            This claim is wrong and unscriptural

          • Widuran

            My church does not talk about Catholics by the way

          • Barros Serrano

            Catholics DO pray to the Saints, whether that is in accord with Church doctrine or not.

            A similar misunderstanding exists among Christians regarding Hinduism. They think that Hindus worship statues and idols. But they are simply there to concentrate the attention on the deities, not unlike the depictions of Saints in the Catholic Church.

    • guadalupelavaca

      How is it not the real church. It was the first Christian church. What, are going to say that some church founded in the 16th century is real one?

      • Widuran

        We pray to God not to Mary.

        The cup during communion is not Christs blood.

        The Pope is not a relative of Paul the apostle.

        • Barros Serrano

          You pray to a God who is modeled on European aristocracy.

          God the Father, our Lord and Master, etc. Sounds like your talking to the Duke.

          • Widuran

            No I pray to God based on the scriptures

        • Adrian

          “The Pope is not a relative of Paul the apostle.”

          Did somebody give you the impression that he’s supposed to be?

          • Widuran

            Catholic’s say this

          • Adrian

            I don’t know what Catholics you’ve spoken to, but I was born and raised in the Catholic church. The idea that the pope is related to Paul is found nowhere in Catholic teaching.

          • Widuran

            Interesting there is a teaching that the Pope is a decedent of Paul or is it Peter? What is the Catholic teaching

          • Iron Mike

            Short version: Catholic teaching is that Peter was ordained by Christ as the rock upon which the church was built. Peter is the father of the church–Pope means father. Every Pope is part of that unbroken line of Popes that began with Peter.

          • Widuran

            I see so it means according to Catholics God chooses the father of the church the pope each time and there is no physical relation between the popes.

          • Iron Mike

            You got it! The College of Cardinals chooses the next Pope after much prayer and discernment. It is a process guided by the Holy Spirit. So yes–God chooses the next Pope and has done so in unbroken lineage since Peter.

          • Widuran

            i suspect this is wrong though but that is my opinion

          • Iron Mike

            If you want to double check, there are plenty of authoritative sources:



            Again, your original question asked about Catholic teaching on the papacy. This IS what the Catholic Church teaches, so there is no doubt what is taught—-whether you choose to believe it or not is up to you. After all, you belong to a denominational church—I belong to the original from which your church is derived. We compiled your bible and you’re welcome. 🙂

          • Widuran

            No I believe you but what I am saying is the Catholic doctrine is wrong

      • Barros Serrano

        Who is to say that the Church created at Nicaea is the true Church?

        There were many, and in my opinion preferable, versions of Christianity afoot before the fascist Roman Christians eliminated most of them. And by Roman Christians I include the Eastern ones who had not yet split from Rome.

    • Barros Serrano

      Your hysterical and perverse fear and hatred of women is noted.

      • Widuran

        More lies by you the bigot

  • Shirley Blake

    Individuals connect with god not organizations. Organizations are essentially businesses and ultimately interfere with the relationship one has with god. I sincerely hope that in the us corporate religion will be reduced in influence. It certainly does not appear at all to be the case currently. At present the church does more to separate people than many secular organizations.

  • wit brown

    It was a goal of the feminist movement of the 60s to dethrone God and the bible as an authority over the female.
    Now it seems they have succeeded in many ways.
    For she is now led by the sisterhood, her feelings and a fallacy call ” equal rights”.
    Now we have a gender confuse culture, high divorce rates , SSM, more common law marriages free sex , stress out women and suicidal kids and a daycare industry that indoctrinates our babies in feminist thought ad the norm.
    Was it worth destroying the traditional family and the authority of God via His Word?
    The cultural mess will get worse because we have entered the slippery slope and will accept any and every behavior base on ” rights” to do as on feels and please.
    Next , i hope to see beastiality accepted in this culture…its the next stop on the slope.
    When we forget God satan will rule…this is it.

    • Mr. James Parson

      What if I don’t believe in Satan either?

      • wit brown

        Means nothing…What if I don’t believe in the wind?

        • kyuss

          that’s stupid. you can detect and measure “the wind”. how do you detect and measure “satan”?

    • Barros Serrano

      This is BS. The feminist movement sought to end male supremacy. It has nothing to do with religion except to note that the Churches buttress and bolster male supremacy!

      The Church needs reform to purge its misogyny. If it will not do so, then rightly it will be abandoned.

      • wit brown

        And you with your feeble brain is going to reform Christ’s ⛪ Church?
        Really? Good luck…
        For more than 2000 years many have tried to reform thr Christian Faith and many are dead and gone, yet the Bible and the Faith remains.
        ” but earnestly content for the Faith that was once given to the Saints.” Jude 3.
        Feminism is antithetical to the Christian Faith.

        • Barros Serrano

          You’re a significantly vile individual. Women’s rights are anathema to the Church? That is further proof that the Church is sick and dysfunctional. Your “Church” is some sort of fascist rightwing bastion, and has little to do with Jesus, who would revile your ignorance and bigotry.

          Feeble-minded? Tell me that to my face, little sputtering incel coward. I know you’re an incel… anyone so vehemently anti-feminist usually is. More than 2000 years? LOL… there was no institutional church until Constantine. More like 1700 years. You don’t even know the history of your own cult. The Church in Jerusalem, the Church of James was NOT like the modern Church, and yet that original one was full of people who’d known Jesus personally!

          You’re confused, not very bright, a dangerous fascist, and entirely wrong.

          • wit brown

            You are quite emotional. Sorry to have offended your petty feelings….

          • Barros Serrano

            Your comment indicates:

            1. you have nothing of substance to say, but really love internet flame wars, which indicates an emotional age of about 13 and male.
            2. you cannot sustain the weak and twisted arguments you make, hence the flame warring
            3. you are a cowardly little twerp who smartasses on line but in peson would stutter and look at your shoes

            Clearly I am correct, as I am a very astute judge of character, and I evaluate you as a schmuck.

          • wit brown

            Not only are you emotional but arrogant as well. That is a problem…but i will let you have the final word.

          • Barros Serrano

            Not only are you always wrong, but you throw petulant hissy fits.

            Get your nose out of the air. You lost. You can refute nothing I’ve said. Just back away gracefully.

  • The Antagonizer

    TRIGGER WARNING for those who hate free speech, or only believe speech left of center is okay:

    Real Christianity has lost its racial element. Thank God Christian nationalism is making a comeback.
    You see, as diversity increases, the government will bring in more authoritarian laws (ex. anti-hate laws) banning any religion proselytizing or espousing itself as the only right one, all to avoid offending others and to reduce conflict.
    White guilt, misdirected compassion, and pretending diversity is a strength to avoid being called a racist wis destroying Christianity.
    Even most churches are segregated. Why? Race matters. God knows this. Look at the bible. Most conflict was ethnic based.
    Upshot? Take the message to the world. Don’t bring the world to the message.
    Women? Sexes are equal, but not interchangeable. Encouraging women to get jobs (Communist ideology) was one reason families became less stable. Women should be taught they evolved to rear children at home and see it as a privilege. Instead, they believe (((MSM))) lies, designed to undermine traditional Western values, because a certain group of tribal and hostile elite see Christianity and Western values as a threat to their survival due to historical reasons. This group is the master of divide and conquer, and empowering women with the belief sexes are interchangeable (and roles) is one way to divide families, especially Christian ones.

    • LastManOnEarth

      Well, aren’t you precious!

    • Damien Priestly

      Too late for your racist, Nazi approach…In a century, Christianity will be mostly African and Latino. The demographics are baked in, white, European Christianity is doomed.

      Trigger Warning for you: A century from now, people of European descent will be barely eight percent of global population — and even that will include mixed race whites.

      • The Antagonizer

        Your anti-White, Communist, White genocidal approach won’t work. Populism and racial awareness is growing in a response to dangerous people like you. Whites are starting to realize race matters, after tiring of listening to lies from people like you.
        Re-read my post. Everything I said is correct. You can’t defeat my arguments because history and science agree with me.

    • Al Cruise Don’t worry to much. You probably can keep your views and move onto small colonies , the Amish are doing it . There are also white supremacists holed up in the bush off the grid, you could probably join a group. Don’t break the law and you will be left alone.

    • Barros Serrano

      You’re a Nazi, and therefore your words are garbage. I don’t respond to your spew.

      I respond to your ilk only with the abject and total violence you deserve. Come to Cville, boy! Bring your Tiki torch. This time we’re ready for you.

  • Brianna LaPoint

    Grew up and out of christianity. thing is, the idea that youre a worthless sinner that needs saving is repulsive. Over time, people begin to see christianity for what it is, a poor attempt at explaining the spiritual world, and some people, like ,myself, have spiritual experiences that make one conclude, without a shadow of a doubt, that christianity is not and cannot be for them.

    • Nimblewill

      So weren’t the spiritual experience that you’ve had in any way “salvatorial?” (probably not a word) If not what good were they?

    • Barros Serrano

      I have a more serious objection to Nicaean Christianity… not only is it a poor attempt at explaining the universe, but it is designed to serve as a means of social control. Nicaean Trinitarian Christianity after all was designed by Constantine to be the Roman Imperial Cult. It is the cult of Roman Imperialism, and as such fits perfectly Marx’s description of religion as an “opiate of the people”.

      Islam similarly was designed to be the Cult of Arab Supremacy, and it also has worked very well.

  • Shaun G. Lynch

    There’s hugely more to the story of the decline of Catholic practice in the province of Québec than “clerical overreach” or feminism (and the NY Times article does reference the PROVINCE of Québec, not just Québec City; in fact, most of the examples of church building repurposing mentioned in the article are located in Montréal).

    I’m an active, practicing Catholic who lives in the Montréal region, and I have direct experience with a couple of the religious facilities mentioned in this post and the Times article to which it refers. I personally know Gérald St-Georges, who established Théâtre Paradoxe in what had previously been Notre-Dame-du-Perpétuel-Secours church. I’ve been involved with organizing a couple of fundraising events in his venue, for a charity associated with the United Church of Canada. In fact, the development of Théâtre Paradoxe was a direct outgrowth of the social ministry of that organization, Saint Columba House, a community centre in the working class Montréal district of Pointe-Saint-Charles.

    The Times article does make reference to the single most important factor in the secularization of Québec: the “Quiet Revolution” of the 1960s. Until the end of the 1950s, the Catholic Church had a stranglehold on social and political life throughout Québec. Healthcare, education and social services were all directly controlled by religious authorities, whether by the Church directly or by religious congregations. When I was growing up, public schools were designated either Catholic or Protestant, with “Protestant” referring to anyone who wasn’t Catholic. Within Catholic schools, catechism was a required subject, and all aspects of faith formation were coordinated within the educational system. Similarly, most hospitals were were established under the auspices of the Catholic Church or its affiliated congregations; this association can be seen to this day in the names still used by many of those institutions: Hôtel-Dieu, Sacré-Coeur (Sacred Heart), St. Mary’s, Saint-Sacrement (Holy Sacrament)…

    Because of the intertwined nature of the relationship between the Church and the provincial government, the widespread corruption that characterized Québec politics through the first half of the 20th Century was inevitably seen as being associated with the Church as well (and often with good reason!). As a result, when the population rebelled at the ballot box in the early 1960s and began electing progressive and secularly-oriented governments, the Church was thrown off along with the kleptocracy that had held political power. Responsibility for healthcare, education and social services moved definitively from the clerical to the political sphere. At the same time, at the international level, the Catholic Church itself was going through the sea change of the Second Vatican Council. The combination led a generation of Quebeckers to feel the shackles of religious dominance fall off, and the drift away from the institutional church began in earnest.

    As religious influence in the educational system declined, parishes failed to pick up the slack. For a few decades, religion continued to be taught in what were still nominally “Catholic” schools, but no longer with the direct control of the parishes. By the beginning of the current century, the designation of schools by religious affiliation had been eliminated in favour of a system based solely on language of instruction. Parents who no longer felt the obligation to attend church themselves tended to see little reason to invest time or effort into forming their children’s faith.

    Ironically, by and large, the Catholic Church in Québec today is probably the most progressive constituency of that faith in North America. My own bishop, Noël Simard of the Diocese of Valleyfield, was among the voices calling for greater openness at a major synod in Rome a couple of years ago, and this reflects what I’ve seen as a general attitude among the clergy (especially French-language clergy) in the province. But I suspect that it’s too little, too late. Those who no longer believe that they will be eternally punished for failing to adhere to all of the rules of the Church (in particular with regard to attendance at mass) will not be coming back, and especially not in the context of archaic liturgical practices that have no inherent meaning to modern congregations. I’m expecting that we’ll be closing and deconsecrating several churches in my diocese in the next few years, as the expense of maintaining them becomes irrational in light of the small numbers using them.

  • guadalupelavaca

    I’m curious. Why do you call the Catholic Church the ROMAN Catholic Church? I’ve been Catholic all my life and we just call it the Catholic Church. It seems only protestants and atheists call it Roman. In the Nicene Creed, it says we believe in one holy Catholic and apostolic Church. There’s no Roman in the Nicene Creed. Just wondering…

    • Tom Hope

      In the Nicene creed, the word catholic should not be capitalized, because it has the original meaning of universal. The term “THE Church” means all Christians, of all denominations. The Roman Catholic Church is A church, among many others.

    • Mr. James Parson

      You may have missed the point of the article

      • guadalupelavaca

        It was an off point question. I wasnt asking about anything in the article. I’m curious as to why non Catholics call it the ROMAN Catholic Chrch, rather just the Catholic Church. Do you have any ideas?

        • Mr. James Parson

          Three idea in no particular order

          1. It is a lot easier to say Roman Catholic rather than to say Catholic Church based in Rome [sic]

          2. May Christian denominations have a geographic part of their name. I am thinking Southern Baptist, Missouri Synod of the Lutheran Church

          3. There is more than one group that call themselves Catholic. There are the Old Catholics and the Anglican Catholics which come to mind.

          • guadalupelavaca

            Catholics dont say Roman. Only non Catholics. The Eastern Orthodox church members use their country as part of the name, such as Greek Orthodox. But they dont have a pope. In the orthodox church each country has it’s own pope. If you’re Catholic then you are in communion with the pope. There is no reason to include roman.

          • Barros Serrano

            You miss the point that Roman Catholics are not the only Catholics! YOU may see it as the “one true church” but others do not. Myself I do not even see Trinitarian Christianity as representing all of Christianity. So I refer to Christianity as “Nicaean Christianity”.

            Are you Opus Dei?

          • guadalupelavaca

            No. I am not opus dei. Just a Mexican Catholic.

          • Adrian

            I assume you realize there are also 23 Eastern Catholic churches that are in communion with Rome. The church that practices the Latin Rite, what people call the Roman Catholic church, is one of only several Catholic rites. It’s the largest by far, but it’s not the only one.

            The term “Roman Catholic” began in England as a way of implying that Catholics served Rome rather than their own king. But then Catholics started using it to self-identify, sort of the same way the term “Quaker” was a pejorative aimed at the Religious Society of Friends, but then the Friends adopted the name for themselves.

            Also, people use the term Roman Catholic to make a distinction between the Latin Rite church and the “one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church” mentioned in the Nicene Creed. Many liturgical Protestant churches say the Creed, and so does the Orthodox church — and to them, “catholic” is simply a reference to the universal church, not to one denomination headquartered in Rome.

            Hope that’s helpful.

    • Barros Serrano

      It is Roman because Christian orthodoxy was codified at Nicaea, by a Roman Emperor. It is the Church of Rome. Trinitarianism is Nicaean.

      Christianity could have other forms, and in fact does. The Jehovah’s Witnesses are not Trinitarian and perhaps you’ve heard of Arians, Nestorians, Monophysites, etc.

      And does not the Pope sit in Rome? The Cahtolic Church is called Roman because other denominations are seated elsewhere. Orthodox, Protestant, they are not in Rome.

      In the Methodist Church we said the Nicaean Creed and were told that the “catholic” in the Creed did not refer to the Roman Church but meant “universal”… so we were saying, I believe in the universal Christian Church.

      Are you one of those right-wing Catholics who wishes to return to Medieval ways?

  • The church is a product of evil people and the Dunning-Kruger effect.

    I’m Jesus – no matter what Abrahamic religion is sanctioned for destruction because the Pentateuch is not, was never, and will never be the word of God.

  • Mr. James Parson

    I wish more people would have stayed on topic with the decline of the Catholic Church in Quebec. Here is my take. It can happen in the United States.

    Roe v Wade will be overturned and in many states abortion will be illegal.

    And we are going to see thousands of women per year going jail, thousands of women injuring themselves to get an abortion, thousands of women going on “vacation” to a place where it is evil. We are going to see women go to jail for miscarriages after all that was a child that died.

    And after these thousand and thousand of women go through this each and every year, they are going to blame Christianity, because Christianity put them through this. They are not going be praying, they are not going to be donating money, they are not going to be participating.

  • Brianna LaPoint

    People leave christianity for many reasons, blame females if you like because Eve gave the apple to Adam, right? but the bottom line is, sometimes people leave because of many reasons, and blaming other people wont change the tides. Will the return? some will, and some will not, also about shifting of the tides, but whatever happens, sometimes christianity brings it on itself with how they treat their loyal members.

  • Ivlia Blackburn

    Yet all those I know who truly practice treating others as they want to be treated including giving the shirt off their backs if necessary are Christian, including monks. Those who say much yet expect others to do the giving while they do the ordering and blaming (you’re homeless, must be your fault, don’t have a job you must be lazy) are all atheist or just non practicing Christians. Having suffered both of the above due to health problems the only ones to help, with practical assistance plus just listening over a cup of tea, have been 2 monasteries and an African Evangelical Church. A damming indictment of nonbelievers,/nonpracticers.

  • Robert Landbeck

    I would suggest that the demise of the catholic church in Quebec as by various degrees elsewhere, may have something to do with the message. Certainly it did for me. Speaking as an ex catholic, I came to view the ‘church’ as no more than a theological counterfeit. And among the many intellectual self deceptions I hold against this ancient institution, without questioning the idea or potential of God, one idea stands out: ‘fully in the image of God’. However nice and comforting this idea may be, it is now more implausible then ever before and may have cultivated a dishonesty with ‘self’ preventing the harder questioning of human nature necessary for our species to progress. The growing collection of unpresidented man made threats to both ourselves and the earth itself, reflecting both humanities intellectual, moral and spiritual limitations, are now so self evident and overwhelming as to see the ‘idea’ as little more then the emporers new clothes. How does such an unsustainable species fit the description? Our destructive stewardship of the planet speaks for itself. So I must ask, Is the all too human theological interpretation of the gospel good news of fake news, a revelation from God of the illusions of men? And only God can sort that question out. The sooner the better!

  • Reese

    You don’t suppose that headlines like this from USA TODAY:
    “Men of God hid it all’: Church protected more than 300 ‘predator priests’ in Pa…” Maybe the Catholic church is suffering from the “sins of their Fathers”? I really don’t think we can extrapolate a lesson here for the UMC.