Join me for a fascinating conversation with Arthur Brooks, where we talk about two of his 12 books, Love Your Enemies: How Decent People Can Save America From the Culture of Contempt and From Strength to Strength: Finding Success, Happiness, and Deep Purpose in the Second Half of Life , his new book just released this week. Because we talk about both books, it is a wide-ranging conversation, but I think I can summarize it by using Arthur's words from this episode. He talks about how we see ourselves and others as objects when he said, "When you can't humanize yourself, good luck humanizing anyone else." I invited Arthur to this podcast after reading his book, Love Your Enemies , where I heard a strong and rare voice in our current climate of divisiveness, urging us to look past the illusion of our separateness. A Buddhist theme, for sure. Or as Arthur said, "The sound of one hand clapping is an illusion, just like the illusion of the separateness of different people." Go to for more about his books, podcast, and speaking engagements. Become a patron to support this podcast and get special member benefits!