So, remember that time I invited David Crowder to become Catholic?

Yeah, that might have been redundant.

I’m happy as can be, and praying for Mr. Crowder, hoping he comes into full communion soon, though it seems his heart is already there.

  • Jgehret

    Did David Crowder, the renowned Protestant musician, just use the words “Liturgy” “Latin” “Mass” and “Eucharist” in that video??! I’m failing to see how this could lead anywhere other than into the welcoming arms of Holy Mother Church.

    • Rpaw

      Umm Jgehret…he’s already in the Catholic Church :)

      • http://devinrose.heroicvirtuecreations.com/blog/ Devin Rose

        Where’s the news/blog/whatever story on this? I have read nothing and it is big news if true.

      • Franziskushaus

        Where did you hear this? That’s wicked awesome to hear if it’s true! (and not that I doubt you of course, good sir)

      • http://cuppboard.blogspot.com Elizabeth Erazo

        Yes, I’d like to see confirmation of that as well! It seems to me that he’s very “into” the Catholic Church (from what I’ve seen & read) but I haven’t found anything that has said he IN the Catholic Church.

        • Soxkoyanks

          No pun intended. I would like to see proof of his confirmation :)

      • Marc Barnes

        not yet folks

      • http://www.facebook.com/kickintheface Jacob Timothy Michael Hughes

        Well, I’m guessing that he is Baptized, so yes, yes he is.

        • Mr. Sem.

          This.

    • BV

      really? I’m a protestant (Anglican) and I use the word “Eucharist” all the time. Talk about stereotyping us protestants. Good job there chief.

    • Angela P.

      Yes, and he even said the Eucharist was the most beautiful part!!!!

  • Joy

    Ok, this makes a lot more sense. To be honest, the invitation post didn’t really make sense to me because, given that the title of the latest album is “A Requiem Mass,” I didn’t understand how he couldn’t already be Catholic…

    • Dtthom2

      He isn’t Catholic, seems like he interested though

  • Tan-da-he-tse

    Wow. He’s closer than Lewis got already!

  • Jeniecebuczek

    So could it be true that people were thinking he might be an undercover Catholic 2 years ago? Notice the wolf in sheeps clothing at the top of this blog!!

    http://defendingcontending.com/2010/02/28/david-crowders-crowded-theology/

  • Stringbeanjeanoo

    I googled David Crowder Catholic and would have laughed out loud at this page I found if it was not so sad: http://defendingcontending.com/2010/02/28/david-crowders-crowded-theology/

    I want to respond but I am NOT feeling well. Maybe someone else should try to lovingly make a comment? So sad to see how some people so misunderstood the RC Church.

    • Tony

      Ughhh… I did comment and now I’m asking myself “what have I done?” Generally speaking, arguing with people like that bears no fruit. Ah well! Hopefully God will use it to his glory

      • Tony

        Apparently they censored my comment. It wasn’t even uncivil! They are so close-minded…

    • Annony11

      Pearls to swine.. that’s how I see talking to people like that. They have already decided what is true so don’t bother them with the facts. Of course, it’s easier to claim that Catholics worship Mary and believe we are saved through works than to actually look into what the Church DOES teach.

      • crowderfan

        praying to mary is not considered worship? going to mass x times a week, confession, saying specific prayers, etc. is not considered works? and what is the having bottles of holy water in your homes and in churches about? please do enlighten me!

        • Annony11

          Corrie, I’m happy to answer your questions but I have one of my own first, only because tone is hard to “hear” over the internet. Are you asking sincerely or sarcastically? Meaning, are you open to listening to what I have to say knowing that there is a possibility that I might have an actual answer for your questions or are you just trying to “save me” from the Catholic Church? If the first, as I said, I’d be happy to explain. If the second, then you have, unfortunately, proven the point in my previous post.

          • Corrie

            no no, sincerity only! i am just getting mixed messages from catholics i’ve met and catholics on this blog. i am truly confused and want to hear your view on those topics!

          • Annony11

            Great! Sorry to have to ask but sometimes people really aren’t interested in hearing what and why we believe things and just looking to pick a fight. Glad to know you’re not one of them! :) Anyway…

            Mary: We don’t pray TO Mary as much as we pray THROUGH her. It’s not very different from asking one of your friends to pray for you when you have a problem. We ask her to ask her Son for our needs. The reason behind this is her state as Queen of Heaven and Mother of the Church.

            In Biblical days, most kings (like Solomon, for example) had multiple, if not many, wives. Because of this, it would be hard to pick one of them to be the queen and cause terrible competition between them. To avoid this, the king’s mother was designated as the queen. A man may have many wives, but never more than one physical mother. The queen had great influence over the king because she was his mother: especially because of the 4th (5th for Protestants) commandment to honor your father and mother. An example of this is found in 1 Kings 2. Adonijah approaches Queen Bathsheeba with a request rather than going to King Solomon himself. When Bathsheeba goes to Solomon, he tells her that he will give her whatever she requests. (Reading further, it becomes clear that, after hearing the request, he does not follow through with it but not because it was asked through her). In the same way, Mary approached Jesus at the Wedding at Cana when the wine ran out. In John 2, Jesus does not seem to want to perform the miracle saying that “His hour has not yet come” but still does what she asks. As Christ is the Lord of Heaven, it follows that Mary, His mother, is Queen of Heaven and, as queen, her requests carry great weight.

            We consider Mary to be the Mother of the Church for two reasons. The first is that, as sons and daughters of God, we are brothers and sisters of Jesus. That implies that we share common parents. Calling God our father is something that unites Christians. If Jesus’ shares His father with us, it is logical that he would share His mother as well. The second reasons, which follows from the first, is the scene at the foot of the cross where Jesus gives His mother to John. In John 19, Jesus says that Mary is John’s mother and John is Mary’s son. Since that was not literally the case, this shows Jesus offering the Church to mother and also that they will honor her as their own.

            Of course, there is nothing wrong with going directly to Jesus (or God the Father or the Holy Spirit) with requests. Catholics do that as well. And praying to Mary believing that she has the power to fulfill any request would be idolatry. She has no power of her own, only the position as human being who was closest and most influential to Jesus to intercede for us.

          • Corrie

            thank you, this was very informative. i appreciate you being so kind and explaining your beliefs to me!

          • Annony11

            You’re welcome! The sad fact is that many Catholics don’t understand the faith themselves which makes it hard for them to explain to anyone else. Any other questions? (I know you had more but Adriel covered some of it)

          • Marshall

            So Mary is the Queen of Heaven? What passage of scripture did you find this? Matthew 12 seems to indicate otherwise.

            46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”

            48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

          • annony11

            1 Kings 2 and John 2 illustrate the Biblical tradition that the MOTHER of the king was considered the queen as opposed to one of the possibly many wives of the king. I went into much more detail in my comment above. Without this tradition how do you account for Jesus’ reluctance but ultimate acquiescence to Mary’s request at Cana?

            Matthew 12 shows that when we follow the will of the Father we are family of Jesus. To think that Jesus was disrespecting his mother through this directly contradicts the commandment to honor thy father and mother. Does this passage speak literally or figuratively? As a 24 year old woman in 2012, it is hard to imagine that He actually meant I am his literal mother.

          • MAM

            Marshall – Jesus says “whoever does the will of my Father”…etc….it is hard to find ANYONE (besides Jesus) who kept the will of God better than Mary :) He was praising her, not dissing her. :)

            Additionally, it would seem that many people also never went straight to Jesus, contact the disciples first, and then the disciples would go to Jesus. Praying with the saints is similar in concept.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andrew-Patton/592034163 Andrew Patton

            What Scripture you ask? Psalm 45:10. Psalm 45:7-8 refers to Jesus as the King, so if the Queen is the King’s mother in Jewish reckoning, that would make Mary the Queen described in Psalm 45:10.

        • Adriel

          I wish I could take the time to respond to everything thoroughly, but hopefully annony11 will do that for you but quickly:

          Mass is the supreme act of worship, centered around the life-giving real presence of Christ, and we’d be stupid not to take advantage of that as many times a week as possible.

          Confession is a sacrament based in John 20:23 and again we’d do well to partake as often as we can.

          Even Jesus said “specific prayers” and as long as they’re said earnestly, they’re not “vain” but rather spiritually important.

          The “works” that James and Paul warned against were works of the law ie Jewish cleanliness law, etc. Good works are how we cooperate with the free gift of faith that saves us.

          Holy water as a substance and its use as a practice are ancient and have their basis in the Old Testament.

          Mary can be prayed to like all the angels and saints. We use both logic and Biblical evidence to determine that she is Queen of Heaven and Mother of us all. We can never love or adore her more than Jesus does, and being wholly devoted to God she never keeps any of our praise to herself, but rather passes it to God, and that’s the point of it all anyway.

          When divorced from interior and exterior mortification and a deep love of Christ and his Bride, any of these practices can be rendered void and dead, and indeed veer into superstition/paganism/idolatry. Otherwise they’re vital to fighting the good fight and finishing the race.

          Hope some of that helps. Otherwise take a look at http://www.fisheaters.com. There’s a lot of good stuff there.

          • Corrie

            thank you for sharing, this was very informative!

          • MAM

            Adriel, Well put. Good job!

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andrew-Patton/592034163 Andrew Patton

          Jesus Himself referred to faith as “The work God requires.” If Jesus called faith a work, what is your problem with works? And if the Scriptures say that “faith without works is dead,” how can you object to works that testify to living faith? What Paul was condemning was the heresy of Judaizing, which held that salvation came from strict observance of Torah, rather than the Cross and Resurrection of Christ.

    • Terpsichore

      Did that guy really just compare Catholicism to drugs, adultery, homosexuality, pornography, divorce, and occult imagery?

  • JimJamCereal

    He’s Catholic? No way.

  • Marie_ross1

    Oh My gosh!! I wish I would have knonn he was Catholic all these years. I would have shared that fact with all those who love his music.. Or would he be as popular if he was up front with his Catholicism? I find it very interesting that he is finally coming forward with his Catholicism right when the band is no more. I dont get it? Now will all is Non-Catholic or Catholic-hating Christians abandon his music? Maybe He thought they would and thats why he planned this ahead of time.

    • Marc Barnes

      he’s not Catholic yet folks

  • Jay E.

    *low chuckle*

  • Virginia

    “Here’s the question from the interviewer Matt Smith:

    You are not Catholic, but on your Illuminate album, you sing a prayer of St. Francis of Assisi. What’s your connection?

    Here’s the evangelical “worship leader’s” answer:

    Much of the Catholic traditions and writings have been influential in my formation of faith and to be quite contradictory of what was stated earlier, I’ve found much inspiration there. St. Francis is a figure I’m equally attracted to and repelled by. I long for his powers of disassociation from the trappings of “stuff.” I’m beset with consumption and materialism, and he is a compelling symbol of contentment. His contentment and way of suffering terrify me.” – from Defending Contending

    That’s supposed to be bad? Lulz.

  • SL

    In response to all the comments below he isn’t Catholic but appreciates the tradition that that the Catholic church brings to the table… can’t someone do that and not embrace everything the Catholic church teaches AND still be a devout follower of Jesus?? I am a protestant married to a roman catholic … I have been going to mass regularly for about two years now. I enjoy worshiping at mass… I enjoy the tradition and feeling contacted to Christians throughout the ages… but I just don’t feel that I can accept everything the church teaches … so that is why I am not Catholic. I attend church, bible studies, adoration, mission trips with my husband and have NEVER been asked to become Catholic. I feel that I have found a great community of Christians within the church we attend and have never felt like I had to become Catholic to be apart of it… they just accept me as I am: a follow of Christ. I guess I don’t understand why some people put such an emphasis on officially joining a church when (in my view) what is important is loving and following Jesus.

    • Mdea29

      Why not love and follow Jesus . . . into the church he started? He didn’t leave a book, he left a Church, with leadership and authority. This leadership and authority,y and the teachings of faith and morals from it, have remained unbroken since the time of Christ because that is exactly what Christ promised.
      And as for that inability to accept everything the Church teaches? Here’s the best part – it’s not about being able to accept anything – it’s about obedience first. Can you trust Jesus to do what he said he would, even if you don’t fully understand, agree, or it isn’t how you would have ordered the universe?
      So here’s your formal invite: please consider becoming Catholic. There’s so much more going on from the inside than from without. st.

      • MAM

        Hi Mdea29 – there is also Eastern Orthodoxy which is the original church along with Roman Catholicism. It does not hold that the bishop of Rome is in authority over all bishops though. Eastern Orthodox have synods o bishops which make joint decisions.

    • chiphopr

      Because the Sacraments. Especially the Eucharist. Oh, the Eucharist. What a joy!

    • Adriel

      To answer your first question. yes. You can disagree with Church teaching (depending) or not be Catholic and still be a disciple of Christ.

      Have you sought answers or explanations regarding the Church teaching you disagree with? Does a part of you want to understand the teachings better or come to grip with them?

      I’m going to make a statement of fact, not to diss anyone or start a sectarian battle, but hopefully out of love and humility: There exists on Earth no surer, purer, deeper, or more authentic way to “love and follow,” and become a disciple of, Jesus Christ, than to live a genuine Catholic faith, with all the “bells and whistles.”

      Every tenet, doctrine, tradition and devotion points back to our beautiful Savior. It’s very hard not to get excited over that, so forgive us who champion the Church so much.

      At the very least, if you haven’t already, ask Jesus what he would have you do regarding this.

      • SL

        in response… I have been researching different teachings since I agreed to get married in a catholic church (almost three years ago). Though I knew I didn’t need to accept them, I wanted to at the least be educated about basic catholic doctrine. I have prayed, read the Bible, read different books, and heard many of the arguments. I am still not convinced on a lot of issues but am also not closed to more information. I consider myself a seeker of truth so I love to research, read, and ask questions to better understand where other people are coming from.

    • Not (Yet?) Catholic

      I’m in the same(ish) boat. I grew up in the Anglican Communion (which is Catholic-lite anyway, hence parts of it are becoming Catholic) but I’m dating and probably going to marry a Catholic and have been attending mass for almost two years. There are parts of Catholic teaching that I too, have trouble accepting or just dont agree with, but I am considering becoming Catholic anyway, especially if my current relationship does lead to marriage and a family.

      In the mean time, it thrills me to see things like this (David Crowder’s new album I mean) and other signs that the Protestant side of the Church is, little by little, overcoming its strange Catholic-phobia. I pray that a unified church is not just an idealistic dream but something that we can move towards in my lifetime. I don’t know what it will look like (and all the Catholics say “Catholic” and they may very well be right) but I know it starts with stuff like this, an “Evangelical” looking at a Catholic mass and saying “Wow, this is beautiful and holy and I want it to be part of my life and I want to share it with other believers”

      And I am listening to the album right now and it’s beautiful :)

      Who knows, perhaps Mr. Crowder and I will both end up swimming the Tiber

      • Anonymous

        Don’t become a Catholic for your future husband or your marriage or your future family. Become a Catholic for Jesus. Physical communion with our Lord? Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity. The breathtaking mystery of it all. Inexplicable.

        Read John 6 – it’s flat-out Awesome.

      • http://profiles.google.com/vladhed Dominic Richens

        I hear and read a lot about Protestants that won’t become Catholic because they have one or more problems with the church and it’s teachings, yet none of them seem completely happy with their current church! How many thousand Protestant denominations are there? Don’t wait for the Catholic Church to be perfect – it’s a human institution and won’t ever happen…or at least not until Jesus comes again :-)

        • SL

          That is a good point! I def have problems with a lot of protestant denominations (which is why I attend church with my husband) however NONE of those churches claim to the one true church instituted by Christ and have the fullness of truth. So if I became catholic .. I would be saying that the Catholic church is the one true church .. and that is hard to do if you find major doctrinal barriers.

          • Soxkoyanks

            Dominic, I invite you to take a leap of faith and explore the Catholic Church formally through RCIA.

            I think you will learn that the Church’s claims to being the Church initiated by Christ doesn’t come from a sense of ego, but from our episcopal lineage that can be traced back to the apostles.

            To echo some other comments, the Catholic Church is not perfect.. but those imperfect areas are all the more reason to pray for conversion and unity :) God Bless!

          • djframerguy

            What are the doctrinal barriers?
            I must admit, that as a convert my only problem was that going from Evangelical to Catholic is kinda like going from Kindergarten to Grad School (O:

          • Nebolg

            “if you find major doctrinal barriers.”

            like what?

          • MAM

            Hi SL – you might want to check out the Orthodox Cburch. It was with the Catholics until 1054. They claim to be the one true church. Their teachings/doctrine are not as troublesome as the Roman Catholics do. Of course they’re not a perfect church either. It’s worth considering.

        • BG

          Most people have a problem with every church they go to in time. Don’t matter what denomination. It is the human way. People often look for a Burger King church, where they can ” have it their way”. If if isn’t their way, then they move on.
          I know quite a few people that are Catholic and none of them go to church. and I do mean none. Why is that>?

    • Anonymous

      Way to go, keep searching!

  • Mrs. K.

    Marc, I bought the Crowder Band’s CD – it’s in the car so I listen to it when I’m driving (I do a lot of driving!). I’ve been a Catholic all my life; there is still so much I do not know about my faith. I’m listening intently to “Give Us Rest” – and, I don’t understand it… but now I want to read and learn all about the Requiem Mass. Seems odd that it’s the Crowder Band’s music that has drawn me in rather than that of Mozart. Nonetheless, thank you, David Crowder (and Marc) for introducing me to more of the beauty, love & mercy that is at the heart of my Catholic faith… not to mention “the happiest of all keys”.

  • Justin Stroh

    All Christian hearts are looking for the safey o the Bride of Christ. She, like no other can mother them into full communion with Jesus Christ, the eternal Son of God.

    I am so heartened to see he desire of so many Catholics crying out, ” come home” to the Church.

    Let us not be afraid to proclaim the truth about Christ and his Church.

  • cculbreth

    Being old, infirm, a four plus decades long choir and music director in cathedrals and parishes, I haven’t quite caught onto Mr. Crowder as of yet. But due to the prodigal brilliance of our bloghost I’ll upload David’s setting of REQUIEM forthwith today.
    But I’d like to comment upon a comment: “Don’t be dissin’ my man Amadeus’ REQUIEM by comparison as insufficient to attract souls to the mystery of faith!”
    I had the pleasure of conducting (and therefore doing all the prep research about Mozart’s intent and motives) this masterwork last May in our parish, and it stands among the paramount settings in aeternum. Insofar as Crowder’s work, I look forward to whether it captures the “ethos” of a true REQUIEM; I certainly hope so. OTOH, after I’ve left the building, our little garage schola will be chanting the Gregorian version as any gathered will be praying the Mass for my soul! (Hopefully I’ll be in purgatory, untangling microphone cords while listening to Pachelbel’s Kanon played on an accordian.)

  • Catherine

    David Crowder wrote a book called “Praise Habit,” it’s one of my favorites. It’s hilarious – he has a wonderful sense of humor – yet also profound. There are nods to Catholicism in there. I recommend it.

  • Corrie

    “Hoping he comes into full communion soon, though it seems his heart is already there.” Though I do not know Dave personally, it is clear through all the interviews I’ve read and listened to that David Crowder’s heart is rooted in Christ. David has long been intrigued with history, particularly the history of the church; and Dave has long since talked about the impact the original Catholic church has had in church history. Indeed, many Evangelicals have. But, the modern Catholic church has added a lot to the faith that Evangelical Christians do not agree with. It seems to me that first and foremost David & Band desire to have a relationship God, not follow a religion. I simply do not understand how you can say to any Christian, let alone a theologian like David Crowder, “come into full communion.” JESUS is the way to Salvation! JESUS brings full communion! There is nothing we can do and no group we can join to be worthy of or to bring about God’s salvation; He alone bestows it upon us freely. For Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life – not the church. The moral of this comment: Crowder’s career has been about making “church music”, and that ought to include a mass considering the history of the Church. I believe you should leave it at that, and not try to read into this album more than is there. Grace and peace.

    • http://www.facebook.com/kickintheface Jacob Timothy Michael Hughes

      Corrie, you are right, but is the Church NOT the body of Christ? Unless you come to his Church, you cannot come to him, for it is in his Church that he reveals himself to the world.

    • BG

      “By George, you got it. Some may say there is only salvation through Jesus Christ, but deep down they think that a “religion” is what saves them. Sad, but true. Basically, what I have read from some posters is when David comes to full communion…then is will be saved. Don’t understand that because church shouldn’t be a competition.

  • sma9231961

    Someone else here said it, “There is NO perfect church.”

    But we have a perfect Lord. I am not one of those Protestants who says Catholics are not Christians. They most certainly are. I grew up a Catholic. My wife was a Lutheran and I became a Lutheran after not attending church for many years.

    Anyway. Good discussion here.

    Thanks.

  • BV

    Wow, talk about arrogance on your part. You can’t imagine a world where a protestant can talk about the faith and the continuity thereof in history, and therefore when we say words like “Eucharist” and “liturgy” and speaking about being connected to something bigger than the local church you automatically think we’re interested in the Roman Church. Interesting.

    Will Crowder move to the Roman Church? Maybe, who knows. But to float this video as a victory lap is arrogant on your part.

    • djframerguy

      um, I would call it less a victory lap for us, but a feeling of joy and hope for him. I believe with every fiber of my being, through faith and reason, that this world’s only hope is one unified Christendom.

      • Marshall081282

        And yet you are the one drawing the lines. Someone earlier went as far as calling Catholicism the grad school of Christian denominations. Talk about boasting in yourselves. “We are the best followers of Christ…look at us and our tradition!!” The structure in your church is not Biblical. If confessions to a “father” are required, tell me what Christ died for? Why was the vail torn? Was it not to give man access himself to God through Christ? Is Christ truly Lord of all, or did he officially declare all of these saints to be worshiped. Much of Catholicism today is tradition based. Not saying there is anything wrong with tradition, but you can get to a point where you rely on those traditions as your source of salvation, much like the pharasees. Don’t lose sight of Christ and his sacrifice. Grace saves, not a half-hearted hail Mary.

        • annony11

          If confession is not encouraged (if not required) why did Jesus say “If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven” after breathing on the apostles in John 20:22-23? Surely He was not advocating that as humans we be unforgiving!

          Indeed we do have access to God through Christ! And, you are correct, the saints are not to be worshiped. That would be idolatry. Catholics do not worship saints (well, individual, uninformed Catholics might but that is not the official Catholic teaching). Rather we pray through them for our needs much as we would ask a friend to intercede for us. Although these saints are no longer on earth, Mark 12:27, Matthew 22:32, and Luke 20:38 all remind us that, to God, all are alive for He is the God of the living not of the dead.

        • Roscoe

          I look at myself as a cradle, yet “reforming” Catholic. As a strict adherent to the Bible, I find much of the Catholic teaching not just extra-Biblical, which I guess is sort of harmless unto itself; but even anti-Biblical [please don't make me cite examples because that will take the focus off this general discussion] at times, which I find rather scary. But, I am still first in line to repudiate misguided statements, like Catholics worship Saints. Granted this is extra-Biblical, but not really different than praying through an intercessory prayer group. The theory is that by praying to Saints as intercessors we are supplicating those close to God to help us with our concerns for ourselves as others. I realize this is an unnecessary step when we all have the ability to pray directly to God ourselves; but if you can get others on your “team”, what’s wrong with that? There is absolutely no worship of Saints going on [nor Mary either for that matter] at any Catholic Church I know of.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Andrew-Patton/592034163 Andrew Patton

          What did Christ die for? The forgiveness of sins, and His death and resurrection is the only thing that gives the sacraments power. That said, what do the Scriptures say? “Confess your sins to one another, that you may pray for one another,” and “If we say, ‘We have no sin,’ we deceive ourselves, but if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us.” It also says, “There is such a thing as deadly sin,” and “There is sin that is not deadly.” Why confess to a priest? Because Jesus said to the Apostles, “Whoever’s sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.” What the Apostles were given by Christ, they have also transmitted to their successors, inasmuch as Matthias was also an Apostle, though not one of the original Twelve. If then, the bishops are Apostles because they succeed the Apostles, they too have the authority to forgive sins, just as the Eleven received it from Christ. And since there are not enough bishops for them to serve all of the flock personally, they have appointed presbyters to act in their stead, to consecrate the Eucharist, to forgive sins, and to anoint the sick.

  • CCulbreth

    Dear Marc,
    As promised, this old music director purchased and listened to Mr. Crowder’s “Requiem” yesterday.
    Could and would you, or anyone else here, please explain to me a number of things I don’t understand:
    *How can this “opus magnum” be in any way associated with the term “Requiem” in a basic sense? Sure, from Brahms to Britten, and Faure’s adaptation to Rutter’s, the sequential ordering of texts that ponder the disposition of departed souls and which offer prayers for both the living and the dead have commonality. But, this effort, intense and heartfelt it may prove, can at best be only “catholic” in that DNA, but in no way does it adhere to any minimal discipline to pass through the crucible of the scriptural and allusionary texts of the real McCoy. What does this work bring to the equation other than the composer’s self-designation that qualifies it to bear the title?
    *Outside of the earnest demeanor and evidence of the piety and spirituality of the performers and performance, what is it about young “emo” musicians who have access to all the digital bells, whistles, samples, and recording techniques that seem, to these ears, obscure the access to the sung Word. Layers upon layers of aural wash with a primitive banjo canon, or out of tune upright piano occasionally thrown into the mix is a been there, done that, got the T shirt paradigm that predates even Sgt. Pepper’s. Add to that the musica concrete of recorded street noise etc., what I hear is a wash. And a high and lonesome tenor (bluegrass sense of the term “high”) who’d be right at home in a lowlands Mississippi shape note choir.
    *Why add the faux “Carmina Burana” mega choral piece that also doesn’t have any coherence and just wanders through some fairly pro forma chordal progressions that come off as contrivance?

    My daughters have gotten me to listen and appreciate young people like “Grizzly Bear,” “Mumford and Sons,” and “Beirut” et al, but many other musicians of this era appear to have style. Sonority. But no substance. Can you help an old composer to hear what ya’ll seem to get and extol?

    • Marc Barnes

      Well I would say that there one needs to listen this with the understanding that it is not strictly a requiem Mass, in the sense of a liturgical Mass, but a “take” on it, each song inspired by each Mass part.

      • CCulbreth

        Thanks for the courteous reply to the old coot, Marc. I got that aspect already, hence the mention of other “semi-Requiems.”
        But at what part should someone aspiring to dock with the Mother ship, the Holy RCC, pay attention to the disciplines that have kept the faith alive for two millenia? Thirty some odd years ago another young bearded guitar lion sprang onto the scene with the heavily overdubbed “The Lord’s Supper” which was at once revolutionary in its concept and execution, AND faithful to the texts of the Church which are primarily psalter-based among other scriptural sources. Talbot was his name, I recall.
        I’m all for synthesis, as long as there’s still at the least one pure DNA strand that adheres to “lex orandi, lex credendi.” Heck, no one thought this was about liturgy. But as a “take” on the tremendous burden of a REQUIEM, Mr. Crowder has a ways to go theologically, if not musically.
        Blessings from the loyal Torry Geezer opppostion.
        And would someone please tell me why the engineer of these kids’ albums cannot make the lead vocals intelligble?

        • http://indefinitecrisis.wordpress.com/ Michael H

          Crowder wasn’t trying to “dock with the mothership.” He’s not Catholic.

    • Ann

      Sometimes I wonder about it too! I’m a classically trained flutist, and I like a lot of comtemporary Christian music and the message it sends, but the music itself is “ear candy” to me.

      I dig into the classics when I need something “meaty” to listen to. Dvorak No. is my current aural choice :)

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/TKOQAKZHEUNR76GL3VID5LTFGY Linda

    To go deep into the history of Christianity generally leads a soul to become a Catholic because the sacramental life was a part of the Church from the time of the Apostles and the Church Fathers make that quite clear. The sacramental life was put aside by the many protesting revisionists and now there are thousands and thousands of differing manmade ideas of Christianity.

    One might say ‘eucharist’ in a Protestant church but it does not denote the physical Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ which is the Catholic belief. And it is the greatest possible Gift in the world.

    The Catholic faith is not only worth living but even dying for as the early Catholic Christians did.

    And, my friends, as Christians, one in baptism in Christ—we may be facing such challenges again. As someone active in the pro-life field I can tell you that only a few of the Protestant churches will stand for life: one Evangelical and three independants here in our large town are truly pro-life. Some churches are pro-abortion, some indifferent and some afraid. The Catholic church must be pro-life and it is a part of Church teaching.

    The Truth subsists in the Catholic Church. One might need to dig to find the explanations for their questions but the answers ARE there. One may have to look past the sinners in the Church but the depths of faith that can be lived as a Catholic can not be found anywhere else. Read the saints! Their examples of coming to supernatural union with God will make your heart yearn for it as well. We need the sacramental life to come to such a place.

    Swimming lessons for crossing the Tiber are ‘free’ but that does not mean there will not be a cost. And the enemy of souls will not wish it and will put up roadblocks that must be expected. But the Prize!

    • MAM

      Hi Linda,
      The Eastern Orthodox churches also have the eucharist and “sacraments” only they don’t use those terms. They have very sound doctrine. They continue to have many modern day saints and martyrs and miracle workers. They were the church from the very beginning of Christianity along with Roman Catholicism until the churches split in 1054. Something you may want to consider.

      Kind Regards,
      M

  • The Inquisitor

    I love the discussion this post engendered, but I have to side with those who think this is premature. Many times in my life I have met others who appear a short distance from Rome, but they never bridge the gap. This is particularly true of Ango-Catholics and Orthodox. Unfortunately, public presumption can set them back. I respect Mr. Crowder’s faith, will pray for him, and leave the rest to God.

  • CM

    This is a great viewpoint, ya’ll should read this
    http://reluctantbaptist.com/2012/01/11/give-us-rest/#more-1257

  • Dannymac86

    He’s a Baptist, part of University Baptist Church in Waco, TX. He is a Christian, you don’t have to be Catholic to go to Heaven.

  • Themtcross

    I was recently at a meet and greet with David Crowded, and I was engaging in shallow banter as it was he had others to meet, Andre we don’t know each other. I was at a “renewed Baptist” church where the meet and greet was. I was probably the only Catholic in the entire place, and I had worn my “I like Catholics” sweatshirt. As our banter finished, he walked away almost unnoticeably tapping my shoulder and saying, “I agree with your shirt.” It was definitely a cool moment.

  • Benjamintriplett

    It’s funny to hear Catholics talk about joining the Communion when their arm was the first to break away from the true Communion around the turn of the 1st millenium.

    I have struggled over this concept…am I in the “true” communion? May I post some of my thoughts?

    First, as a baptized Protestant, I have utter respect for the Catholic Church’s finer points. I have contemplated (and still contemplate) making the journey to join, by reading Papal literature, some of the turn of the century Neo-Thomists, Thomas himself, and even a good bit of the Catechism. I appreciate that the Catholic Church demands submission to authority, which I find to be the greatest fault in the Protestant church. Protestants denominations, almost across the board, continue to multiply because they refuse to submit to authority. Pascal felt that because Protestants refused to submit to the authority of the Church, their God became “reason”, and I agree with that to some extent. Submission is a need of the soul, like the body needs food, writes Simone Weil, and I agree.

    Yet, the Catholic Church did the same thing 1000 years ago in breaking with the communion of the other Mother Churches. They took certain rights into their own hands, “interpreting” Scripture in ways that benefited them, and allowed nominalist and political influence to canonize unholy practices (or as someone alluded to earlier, they have added things that Protestants…and Eastern Orthodox…don’t feel comfortable with).

    Of course, the Orthodox also have had their share of problems in wedding the Church to the State. But Catholics ought to acknowledge their own troubled history in breaking with God’s Church. I believe that some of the seeds of evil planted in those prideful decisions still remain, as we see coverups of corruption in Catholic Churches across the globe (similar to what was happening when the first big internal and external reformations of the Catholic Church began).

    The only conclusions I have come to are that God has a history of letting outsiders into the Communion. Heck, that’s how the Christian Church began! Don’t forget that we are all outsiders to His first covenant with His people from Israel! I will still seek whether to be Protestant, Catholic or Orthodox with an open heart, and my model is the Publican from Luke 18. Just make sure you check for logs before check for splinters, everyone!

  • Dave

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