Who Killed Jesus?

Who Killed Jesus? October 23, 2017

Who was it that killed Jesus? Was it the Jews who delivered Him, the Romans who crucified Him, Pilate who ordered it, or was it us who have sinned?

The Jews

Most people might think that it was the Jews who killed Jesus. For example, they were constantly trying to trip Jesus up by asking Him difficult questions, but Jesus always turned the table on them, and they were the ones left speechless, and we know the Jews hated Jesus and sought to kill Him (Matt 12:14; John 5:18, 8:58-59, 10:30-33), so when the Jews brought Jesus before a mock trial and made false accusations against Him by people who were false witnesses, (Mark 14:55-59), Pilate must have known Jesus was innocent. Pilate knew that it was out of envy or jealously that the Jews had delivered Jesus (Mark 15:10) and not a criminal act. Jesus was gaining more popularity and a greater following than the Jewish leaders had, and Jesus exposed their hypocrisy for everyone to see, so the Jews conspired to kill Jesus, but did the Jews really kill Jesus? Who was responsible? Was it the Jews or the Romans?

The Romans

When the Jews brought Jesus to Pontius Pilate, Pilate examined Him, and saw that He was innocent, so “Pilate said to the chief priests and the crowds, “I find no guilt in this man” (Luke 23:4), but it didn’t matter to the Jews. They still cried out, “Crucify him” (Luke 19:15), but before Jesus was crucified, the Romans scourged Him. Perhaps Pilate thought that would be enough to satiate the Jew’s thirst for Jesus’ blood, but it only managed to make it worse. Jesus had just told Pilate of the One Who had given him his authority, obviously meaning God, so “when Pilate heard these words, he brought Jesus out and sat down on the judgment seat at a place called The Stone Pavement, and in Aramaic Gabbatha” (John 19:14), and sought to have Him freed. Again, there was no chance because the Jews were still crying out, “Crucify him” (Mark 15:13), so Pilate washed his hands of it, knowing Jesus was innocent, but Pilate could not cleanse his conscience I am sure. Even though Pilate sought to have Jesus released, Pilate reluctantly sentenced Jesus to be crucified. Remember, the Jews had essentially threatened Pilate, by saying, “If you release this man, you are not Caesar’s friend. Everyone who makes himself a king opposes Caesar” (John 19:12). That may have been enough to persuade Pilate to have Jesus crucified, so was it the Romans who crucified Jesus, who were only doing their duty; was it Pilate, who could have let Jesus go; or was it the Jews, who pressured Pilate into having Jesus crucified. They were the ones who brought the false accusations against him in the first place. It sounds more and more like the Jews, and not the Romans who killed Jesus, but let’s wait to decide on that yet.

Crucifixion

Image: Marco Palmezzano. 1490.

Humanity

The first person I really see as killing Jesus, or at least having His life given as a ransom for many (Mark 10:45), is me. I feel like I was driving those nails into the cross, even 2,000 years before I was born. It was sin that caused Christ to go to the cross where my sins and yours He bore. If there were no sin, no sacrifice would have been needed, but since I have sinned, as all have, I needed a Savior. That’s why I have trusted in Jesus Christ. The Bible teaches that He purchased me with His own blood (Acts 20:28). It’s so easy to read the accounts of the Old Testament and think, “Wow, how can they be like that,” but it is better for me to read it and think, “How am I like they are?” Very much, I am afraid. God knew Adam and Eve would sin. He knew I would sin and He knew you would sin. He knew a Savior would be needed. And that was why Jesus had to come and live a life of perfection, dying, having never sinned, and being raised again and is now seated at the right hand of the Father. My sin and yours made Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection necessary. Who killed Jesus? Was it us? Wait before you answer that, because the Bible actually tells us who killed Jesus.

The Father

Isaiah the Prophet wrote a prophecy about the coming suffering servant, Who would take upon Himself the sins of the world, but Jesus said, concerning His own life, “No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father” (John 10:18), so the Jews didn’t take Jesus’ life from Him. Neither did the Romans or Pontius Pilate. Jesus laid down His life of His own accord, for those who trust in Him. Since “no one” took it from Him, this must include both the Jews and the Romans, and really, us! Isaiah tells us that “it was the will of the Lord to crush him; he has put him to grief” (Isaiah 53:10a), and “he bore the sin of many, and makes intercession for the transgressor” (Isaiah 53:12c). When Jesus was about to go to the cross, and take upon Himself the sins of the world, Jesus prayed three times to have that cup removed, but He knew it was the will of the Father, so He prayed, “My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will” (Matt 26:39). This means it was the Father’s will to have Jesus die. Of course it was also the Jews will to kill Jesus, but the Jews didn’t kill Jesus. The Romans could have freed Jesus, but Pilate caved into political pressure, but the Romans or Pilate didn’t actually kill Jesus. If the Father had willed that Jesus not die, then Jesus would not have died. There was no way that Jesus was not going to die on the cross.  When the Apostle Peter tried to stop Jesus’ arrest by cutting off the servant of the high priest’s ear (John 18:10),  “So Jesus said to Peter, “Put your sword into its sheath; shall I not drink the cup that the Father has given me” (John 18:11), so it was the Father’s will that Jesus died, even though we were responsible for Jesus having to go to the cross, but even that is placed within the sovereign will of God.  His will is going to be done, no matter what. God’s will is done, through good and bad (Rom 8:28), but it was not the Jews, not the Romans, and not even Pilate or we that killed Jesus. It was the Father that killed Jesus, but that was the only way we could be saved.

Conclusion

If this seems amazing, it is. God’s love is infinite and beyond comprehension. His love is more than feelings or words…it is action (John 3:16). It is a love that dies for those who are ungodly, wicked sinners, and natural enemies of God (Rom 5:6-10). That’s why grace is so amazing. We get what we don’t deserve because Jesus got what He didn’t deserve. If only through history had they understood that it was not the Jews who killed Jesus, nor the Romans, and not even we, but it was the Father that killed Jesus. This is why Jesus can say, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this” (John 11:25-26)? Well? Do you believe this?

Article by Jack Wellman

Jack Wellman is Pastor of the Mulvane Brethren Church in Mulvane Kansas. Jack is a writer at Christian Quotes and also the Senior Writer at What Christians Want To Know whose mission is to equip, encourage, and energize Christians and to address questions about the believer’s daily walk with God and the Bible. You can follow Jack on Google Plus or check out his book Teaching Children the Gospel available on Amazon.

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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • pud

    Answer? NO ONE!

    1. There is NO evidence that any “jesus” ever existed

    2. Your story book “jesus” is your story book “god” who your story book claims is immortal

    3. You lunatics squeal “jesus lives” and “the living god” so therefore “he” isn’t dead. He can’t be dead and eager to mess up you filthy sinners at the same time.

    4. The idea of “vicarious redemption” is perverted

    Since you love death so much…how did “judas” die? Your stupid buybull has 2 contradictory tales…how can this be given it’s the “perfect word” of a deity?

    You are ill. You need to seek proper mental health counseling asap

    • Tee Eef

      I will see the day you met Jesus, In your spirit you know the truth Saul was asked “why do you persecute me”. The day is not very far watch your steps.

      • pud

        OH NO!! The christian threats begin! Believe nonsense or else!

      • Jack Wellman

        Amen my friend. Poor Pud doesn’t really want answers (Matt 7:6). Praying for this poor, lost soul of hers.

        • pud

          Sure I do! Provide some! Demonstrate that ANYTHING you babble is actually true! Show just one thing being actually TRUE! You can’t, you won’t…you’re delusional and irrational and too cowardly to exercise a critical mind

          Quotes from a man made STORY BOOK are NOT facts!

        • Ivlia Vespasia

          Very true, especially as there is evidence from historians alive at the SAME TIME as Jesu to testify that he did actually exist (outside of anything Biblical). Not hard to find them, even mentioned in a number of novels. But if someone really doesn’t want to believe then you will never convince them that others are right or that others have as much right to believe what they would like as the detractor. Sad but true.ps to Pud, my image tells my allegiances.

      • NathansFather

        Absolutely in this. Time is short people. Atheists, agnostics, minimal/nominal “christians”, and the false prophets and their followers must awaken. Today is the time. The hour is NOW.

        This means those who are compelled by lucifer PUD and those harassing believes to attempt to kill Jesus now inside those who follow The Way, Truth, and Life and have been born from above and imbued with the exegesis of The Holy Spirit. Lucifer, the fallen angels, and demons failed to kill Jesus Iesous Y’shua as He rose from the dead and now sits upon The Mercy Throne for followers and The Throne of Judgment (punishment) for the persecutors of His children. Also false prophets will hear, “depart from me I never knew you.”

        We cannot be defeated as Jesus Iesous Y’shua assured us of the Victory. To us is The Kingdom of GOD and we will be with the other followers of the Old Testament (saints who believed GOD such as Abraham and King David. Justification was granted to them) and the New Testament saints translated to Saints.

        • pud

          BS..You are so clearly psychotic

        • “..compelled by Lucifer can”

          How can anyone be compelled by a non existent being, a being for which you can give no more empirical evidence than you can for the existence of fairies.

          Who is harassing “believers”? Have you a persecution complex?

          What evidence is there for the existence of any Holy Spirit? Do you mean a feeling you have on the inside? What evidence is there that Christians live any differently from the average non Christian.

          How do you distinguish between an inner certitude that you have the indwelling Holy Spirit and objective evidence? How do you know that what you “feel” is actually external to you or something that is only going on inside your heart and mind?

          Do you know that Buddhists and Muslims that feel the leading of a presence or of a god claim subjective certainty for their experiences just like you do? How can you substantiate that your views are right and theirs are wrong? It is only your belief (not proof) that the bible is the Word of God that drives you to propagandise others. A contradictory bible with multiple viewpoints on many topics cannot be the Word of any God. The barbaric views it contains on some topics shows that it is just the words of ancient bronze and iron age humans, but you think that some Holy Spirit inspired it. Wow! some Holy Spirit! One who inspires contradictions and barbarism.

          • pud

            Oh oh…you asked rational questions again. Expect silence

          • NathansFather

            There is no use our dialoging further, sorry John.
            You have been fooled by lucifer that he does not exist.

          • pud

            Seek medical help now.

          • pud
        • Robert Demler

          The “time” has been short for over two thousand years. Don’t hold your breath, dear ‘Research Berean.’

          • NathansFather

            We see a growing number of Biblical prophesies fulfilled.
            We are called to be Watchmen on the Wall.
            The best I know personally are here:
            Kjos Ministries
            Crossroad To
            http://www.crossroad.to

            One never knows the time and hour.
            This is up to God the Father.

      • What day?

        • Tee Eef

          https://youtu.be/xXURddvco8w

          Following Jesus is the only way and there is no other religion which is above Christianity. One can only repent when he or she is still alive, after death no one can repent “no chance”

          • Don’t be fooled by this so-called prophet of god! He’s ripping you off financially. He is a believer in a god of fear and you are deceived by him. Love casts out fear.

          • Tee Eef

            Mr. Arthur its not about money but believing in God not everyone can be a preacher let other be preachers and spread the word of God, No one is intimidated or coerced Following Jesus is a matter of individual choice. Jesus is the light and the only way to reach to God. One needs to be born again to be able to receive the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit which is the good spirit of will then comfort you, and will also also teach you every and help you to understand. There is basically nothing we can do on this earth without the assistance of the Holy Spirit.

            As long as you intend to stay in the Kingdom of darkness there is no way you would understand what has been said by the article (Who killed Jesus) http://www.patheos.com/blogs/christiancrier/2017/10/23/who-killed-jesus/ or everything being said here. If for sure you are following Lucifer (Satan) or atheism then something must be very wrong with your brain and yourself. For every which is not of God is devilish is Satanism and arguing with people from the dark world will really not help us in any way because in terms of the kingdom of God the Kingdom of Light you may not have any space there.

            The Devil is a deceiver and liar and will are not doing yourself good by worshiping Satan there is certainly nothing good there. Your don’t have to defend Satan like that.

          • What evidence can you present that Satan and demons exist? You know that you cannot present any more evidence than you can for the existence of fairies. You believe, by Faith, in an ancient book written by bronze and iron age savages that Satan and demons exist. This is ancient world mythology. But hey, you are free to believe this nonsense.

            What Holy Spirit? You mean the so-called spirit that inspired contradictions in the bible. This is just a feeling you have and Buddhists and some Muslims claim to sense a presence of love or a god and have the same kind of feeling. Yet you say that they are Satanists because you believe that Jesus is the only way to God

            The barbaric god who commanded the murder of little children and babies is of the kingdom of darkness ( read the book of Joshua and 1 Samuel ch.15). You need to see that only compassion, tender mercy and loving kindness can make a person whole. Violence never makes a person whole. So if the Holy Spirit inspired the book of Joshua and 1 Samuel 15 then such a holy spirit is barbaric. That subset of atheists who are compassionate, merciful and kind are of the kingdom of light, not darkness.

          • Tee Eef

            Here is some of the evidence that Satan really exits. The Devil is equally a created being (a cherubim) and was given a responsibility to go to and from the earth over seeing the matters of the earth.

            https://www.biblesprout.com/articles/hell/satan-devil/

            http://www.faithgateway.com/bible-verses-about-satan-is-real/#.WfR8K7idcdU

            This argument brings us back to the book of Enoch (a man loved by God and also walked with God.) It tells how the real Demons originated ” God called the spirits that originated after the death of the giants, as the DEMONS.

            I have to refer you again to at least read the so called the book of Enoch as it also referred to in the book of Jude

          • “If a man meets a virgin who is not engaged and seizes her and lies with her, and they are caught in the act, the man who lay with her shall give 50 shekels of silver to the young woman’s father, and she shall become his wife. Because he violated her, he shall not be permitted to divorce her as long as he lives” (Deut.22:28-29). Is this the Word of God?

            Do you mean to tell me that the Holy Spirit inspired this scripture which has a man rape a woman, then force this woman to marry her rapist for the rest of his life? How is this compatible with Jesus’ command to love others? Isn’t this the kind of act that is inspired by ‘Satan’? This portion of scripture is plainly immoral. Doesn’t this make Moses a false prophet?

          • Read ch. 31 of Numbers which describes the war against Midian.

            “… Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones and kill every women who has known a man by sleeping with him. But all the young girls who have not known a man by sleeping with him, keep alive for yourselves.’ (Numbers:31:17-18).

            Is this passage inspired by the Holy Spirit? This seems like a command to rape the virgins taken in battle. This may be through marriage and some may have voluntarily entered into a marriage relation, but some would have been forced against their will to have sex in an unwanted marriage?

            Does the Holy Spirit inspire rape? Isn’t this something your ‘Satan’ would do?

    • Iain Lovejoy

      I am curious as to when you think Jesus was invented, and by whom?

      • pud

        Mythical “jesus” is a compilation of numerous dying and rising gods going back to the pagans. He is a marriage of Helenistic and Pagan mythologies combining the traits of numerous previous “divine” characters. I don’t think that you can pinpoint an exact date as mythologies evolve over time and generations but clearly there was mention of the “jesus” cult by actual historians in the 1st century…but NOTHING of any actual “jesus”

        • Iain Lovejoy

          OK, so you think he was made up in the 1st Century. Who by?

          • pud

            There is no one person who sat down to create the “jesus” myth…the entirety of your cults evolution took place over hundreds of years. At the time attributed to “jesus” there were many many deluded rabbis roaming around preaching the end of days..obviously none caught on. Interestingly your early cult were the original “atheists” called such by the Romans who worshiped other “gods” You were a very marginalized cult up until the time of Constantine when he converted (via mysterious visions) and the counsel of Nicea was convened to determine by vote of priests the exact nature of the “jesus” character….by a vote! Not by self evidence, by vote!

            But you really have to go back further to the origins of Yahweh the jew god of war mobilized to rally the people to stand up to the Romans. This “god” was entirely manufactured as well as the concept of a messiah who all the deluded souls of the time kept looking for.

            I would suggest you google the documentary “A history of god” and “A history of the devil” You’ll quickly see without question that it’s all man made fiction…all of it

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJkNs512Lsk

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIN6NnxPsuQ&t=6s

          • Iain Lovejoy

            “the entirety of your cults evolution took place over hundreds of years”
            This “hundreds of years” all took place during the first century, right? You have said that Christianity existed in the first century, so the existence of Jesus must have been invented by then.
            You have said that anyone who thinks there was in fact a historical Jesus must be mentally ill. If he didn’t exist, and no-one invented him, how do you say there came in to existence a group of people claiming him as their founder? Do you believe that the idea of the existence of a person called Jesus spontaneously popped into a whole bunch of people’s brain simultaneously?

          • pud

            I don’t mind engaging you…but I insist that you watch the two docs I gave you links for…then get back to me. Both of them CLEARLY document and articulate how all manner of “god” “demons” etc come into being through long periods of cultural mythology…NO actual original entity required

          • pud

            How did the hundreds of Hindu “gods” come into being? Or the hundreds of Greek and Roman “gods” Or the thousands of other “gods” across the planet? Did they all require actual historical figures? Was there a real Mythra? A real Hercules? A real Gannesh? I think not. There were countless religious cults at the time…apocalyptic cults with all manner of magician cult leaders peddling their crap. It’s not surprising that out of this cult happy culture that certain stories arose that were more accepted than others. The early christian cults numbered in the dozens at least all with different versions, stories and myths. Tall tales and oral tradition doesn’t need a real seed only a good story and a hook to reel in the credulous.

          • Iain Lovejoy

            Basically, you can’t answer my question because you don’t know. You don’t actually have a viewpoint or any clear ideas of your own, and certainly don’t have any clue about the subjects you talk about. You just recycle things you have heard from other people in a random order, plus insults.

          • pud

            The last man I know of that had a truly original idea was Einstein. Tell me of your truly original ideas that you didn’t learn from others.

          • pud

            Also…that’s not an argument. Try listing what I don’t know and why it’s wrong. Show where anything I’ve ever written here is incorrect. Waiting….

            You have NO interest in learning anything. You are wed to your delusional cult and there’s nothing that will alter that. You will cover your eyes and stick your fingers in your ears doing whatever it takes to keep from having your delusion shattered. This is indeed a mental illness

    • -MARK-

      Faith is not considered a mental illness

      • pud

        Yes it is. “Faith” is THE most dishonest position one can hold. “Faith” is “belief” without evidence which by definition is delusional. Every “faith” claim is as good as the next…”faith” in angels is the same as “faith” in Bigfoot or alien abductions as all “faith” claims require only gullibility and the the willful omission of actual evidence

        • -MARK-

          Since faith is something the majority of humans have

          It’s by definition normal human behavior

          • pud

            LOL! Everyone once thought the earth was flat too.

            “Normal” doesn’t mean it isn’t irrational, dysfunctional or stupid does it?

          • -MARK-

            You called it a mental illness

            Called the delusional.

            Can it be irrational or stupid, yes I suppose one could think that.

            Dysfunctional is another specific word. Being unable to function. There are so many different types of faith. Some may be dysfunctional, others are not.

          • pud

            No. There are NOT different “kinds” of “faith” You can use the word “faith” when you mean justifiable trust but that’s just lazy when you should use the proper word trust.
            “Faith” is always unjustifiable “belief”…all religions rely on “faith” as they cannot and never will be able to justify their “beliefs” rationally

            Dysfunctional doesn’t mean non-functional as much as it means ill functioning or functioning in a delusional irrational way

          • -MARK-

            Faith is not justifiable

            To you

            To you

            Sure don’t have faith

            Faith means different things to different people

            Faith can be absolute

            Or it can be weak

          • pud

            NO. “Faith” by DEFINITION is unjustifiable “belief” It is not subjective it is objective. If you can “justify” “faith” then it’s no longer “faith” it is knowledge! hello?

            NO. “Faith” cannot by definition be absolute! lol FACTS are absolute but “belief” and “faith” are NOT!

            Only idiots, fools and the stupid have “faith” or “belief”…rational people have degrees of conviction based upon evidence…they do not “believe” anything! They accept certain propositions to degrees of certainty based upon the strength of evidence

            This is why ALL religious people are gullible morons…they care nothing for truth, nothing for evidence and willfully delude themselves by believing what they want to believe despite and in the face of all contradictory facts, reason and evidence

          • -MARK-

            There are religious people that do believe in science

            It’s only defined that way by you.

            You don’t get to define what is justifiable or not.

            That’s obnoxious

            You can say it seems absurd to me.

            Then you can talk to various people of faith to get their ideas.

            But with your attitude why would anyone want to talk to you

            You are not interested in talking to anyone.

            People can and do speculate. If you don’t want to speculate then you don’t have to.

            I don’t know why people of faith or no faith want everyone else to think like they do.

            And what is your purpose being on a Christian board.

            You are not changing anyone’s mind, except to make atheist appear to be obnoxious a*.

            Meanwhile in the real world people can and do get along regardless of their theistic beliefs.

            Just because some theatrics are intolerant does not make atheist who are intolerable right.

          • pud

            Religious people who believe in science is “cognitive dissonance” look it up…also, you do not “believe” in science…Science is NOT faith based!

            You clearly don’t even know what you’re babbling about

            Don’t talk to me then…I don’t give a shit. It is your loss as I clearly have a better grasp on reality than you do and you could learn a thing or two if you weren’t so religiously arrogant

            I’m here because I seek to destroy religious cults through reason…you are my enemies. If I wanted to help drunks would I go to a church or a bar? duh

            I care about the truth…you do not…we can never get along unless and until you embrace truth above all else

          • -MARK-

            In order to analyze people you need to be objective

            Clearly you are not.

            Saying cognitive dissonance means nothing unless you analyze the person

            Cognitive dissonance has a very specific meaning.

            At this point you don’t know what I believe, do you?

            I could be anything. I could be atheist or evangelical.

            But you are my enemy

            The rights for freedom of religion is the most important part of democracy

            The right to be religious or not be religious to practice your fundamental beliefs are considered a fundamental right by the United Nations.

            Scorning people are wrong.

            You are clearly not objective.

            Are your are actually working against your stated goals.

          • pud

            Cognitive dissonance means holding two contradictory thoughts at the same time….in your example “faith” and “science” Science IS NOT “faith” based. You cannot hold to “faith” and “science” without being messed up in the head

            I don’t “believe” anything! I accept certain propositions to degrees of certainty based upon the strength of evidence…already told you this

            I’m not arguing anyones “right” to be stupid or deluded…you certainly are within your rights to be either or both

            Ridiculous ideas deserve ridicule

            Be an adult….I don’t treat people like tender snowflake children…grow a pair

          • -MARK-

            Yep

            You are obnoxious

            But think you are not.

            Let’s try this.

            A person can understand and accept science

            And have faith based on speculation

            See

            Easy peasy

            People can and do speculate regardless if YOU think it’s childish.

          • pud

            LOL

            If you accept evidence and fact based science AND you speculate on nothing but blind faith….you are deranged! Easy peasy!

            You clearly don’t even know the meaning of “speculate”….You can hypothesize on something but that IS NOT “faith” “Faith” is claiming to KNOW something without any evidence to support it. Speculating is merely thinking about a possibility which doesn’t imply “believing” in it.

          • -MARK-

            The world does not revolve around your opinions

            And people who have different ideas than you are not deranged or stupid.

            Those are subjective opinions.

            You are truly an obnoxious individual.

            I much prefer the to each their own,

            And to live and let live.

            But you are the perfect example of the obnoxious anti-thesist antidote to the obnoxious thesist

            Thankfully most atheist are decent people who just want the ability to live and believe what they want to, they don’t pass judgements, certainly not sweeping condemnations against groups of people.

            As of now, you have no idea what I think. It’s actually irrelevant.

            But just like atheist are different

            Do are thesist

          • pud

            What I write is NOT opinion it is fact, reason, logic and definition of terms

            If their ideas do not comport with reality then they are stupid…more so if they willfully cling to them despite being corrected

          • -MARK-

            Your idea that if people don’t think like you

            They are stupid

            Is your subjective opinion.

            I have already explained people who believe in science and have faith in God.

            Sure you can Think anything

            It’s not fact.

          • pud

            No. It is NOT a question of thinking “like” me it is about thinking rationally and critically.

            If you do not think rationally and critically then you by definition think irrationally and non-critically and are therefore either stupid or willfully delusional

            I know that there are people who accept science and have “faith” in an invisible undetectable “god”…they are idiots and stupid and suffer cognitive dissonance…I’ll explain it to you one more time….SCIENCE IS NOT A BELIEF! Science is evidence based….if you on the one hand accept things because of evidence and on the other accept things without evidence you are screwed up in the head…hello?

            You either are or are not an evidence led person…you CANNOT be both led by evidence and “faith”

          • Wcdancer41

            “we can never get along unless and until you embrace truth above all else”

            Looks like I stumbled in to the wrong service So “Truth” is the God of your cult? It is exhaulted above all else. You will not associate with those who dont believe in your “Truth”. Any other “Truth” is false because there is only one “Truth”. Yours. All acceptable members must worship at the alter of truth, without question…

            Sounds familiar.

          • pud

            You couldn’t be more wrong about everything…

            I have no invisible undetectable “gods” and I have no “cult”

            You do not “believe” in what is true. You “believe” in what you cannot show to be true…that is if you’re irrational or gullible and uninterested in the nature of reality

            Truth is objective…it is that which comports with reality….it’s not mine it simply is

            Rational people do not “worship” anything

          • Wcdancer41

            Your use of hyperbole, condesention &
            inaccurate “if/then statements are oppositional to your credibility as someone who claims to value provable “truth”.

            In your very first statement you begin your descent into hylerbole. Of course I could be more wrong & I often have been.

            You claim that I do not believe in what is true. Since you don’t know me & have no idea what I believe in, this is clearly an unprovable “belief” on your part, and by your own admition, you dont believe in what you cannot prove.

            You say that IF I believe in what I cannot show, THEN I am irrational, gullible & uninterested in the nature of reality. Neither part of that hypothesis & conclusion proves the other- And yet you believe it.

            When I drive my car at 60mph down a dark familiar highway & am only able to see as far as my headlights illuminate the road I am exercising faith that the road will continue to be there. That faith grew from the knowledge that the road has been there for me in the past & I have no reason to believe it won’t be there in the future.

            I can’t show you gravity, but I see it’s effects every day. I can’t prove that love exists but I can show you what it can produce. If it weren’t for our beliefs there would be no motivation to persue science.

            As for your desire to destroy religion through reason, you will never make a persuasive argument by bullying and insulting those whom you hope to enlighten. If your desire is to strip people of an unfounded sense of hope in something greater than themselves, I hope you have something more to offer in it’s place than a future of feeling as hurt and angry as you feel.

          • pud

            If you drive down dark roads by “faith” why not do it blindfolded?

            We can measure gravity, have defined its characteristics mathematically, we can test it and build predictive models around it

            Not so much “jesus” eh?

            You confuse “faith” with rational empirical “trust”

            “Faith” is unjustifiable “belief”

            “Trust” is justifiable confidence

            I rest my case

            PS..I am neither hurt or angry and you can’t have any knowledge of what I “feel” about anything

            Do you still “hope” Santa Claus brings you a red bike?

        • -MARK-

          All faiths are not equal

        • -MARK-

          Holding a view point without evidence is not dishonest in of itself.

          If I say this is what I believe, this is my faith

          But I cannot prove it, that is honest not dishonest

          Try to use more exact discriminations.

          Just because you don’t believe in God or Jesus.

          Doesn’t mean any analysis of other people is correct

  • pud

    The power of pretend…why you want to believe

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z50lYQsABjs

  • NathansFather

    >> Father that killed Jesus << Correct in this Jack.
    And Jesus also placed Himself on The Cross to die for the just penalty for our sins.
    Jesus Iesous Y'shua as God the SON (fully GOD) said He could have called down legions of Holy Angels to rescue Him from the Cross.
    He dutifully did the bidding of GOD the Father.
    Of this GOD the Father was well pleased and said so.
    O'Reilly in his book _Killing Jesus_ should have concluded in this.

    • pud

      Nonsense..total BS

    • So was the Father a cosmic child abuser?

      • NathansFather

        There you go again.
        Your tired argument that you are god and GOD is love and all knowledge and wisdom.
        You sir are the child abuser trying to convince innocent children you are the god of all “humanity.”
        You are trying to consign children to a place of tears and misery.
        WOW!
        You really should be ashamed of yourself but of course you are not as you believe you are god.

        • I have never argued that I am God. You write utter nonsense! You believe that the textual god is the real god, but this textual god is a god of violence that you believe in. You believe that God ordered the murder of little children and babies. I don’t know if you have any children, but just imagine your children were killed by a god commanding it. How would you feel? Do you lack any sense of compassion?

          I believe that, if God exists, he is compassionate as the textual Jesus teaches in the Sermon on the Mount and the Sermon on the Plain. “Let the little children come unto me, for of such is the kingdom of heaven”. The Jesus of the Gospels didn’t say, kill the little children because their parents were wicked, did he?

          Perhaps you need to go to Gregory Boyd’s blog and read his arguments re the crucifixion of the warrior god. He sees the crucifixion of Jesus as the crucifixion of the violent god presented in the OT, so that the compassionate God can shine forth. Boyd is a believer in the inerrancy of the bible in the original manuscripts.

          Boyd is a Creative Love Theist and takes an Anabaptist view of Jesus as non violent. A growing, but by no means universal, consensus of NT scholars see Jesus as non violent but you choose to believe that he is violent. Shame on you! But hey, you are doing a great job turning Christians into atheists.

        • “You sir are the child abuser”

          Really!

          So tell me, is it child abuse to tell children to love each other? Is it child abuse to try and set an example to children through love for one’s spouse? Is it child abuse when children see you trying to be considerate to others?

          You want to scare children with threats of hell if they do not accept your wrathful god, don’t you? You want to give them nightmares, do you? Isn’t this a form on mental child abuse?

          It is you who ought to be ashamed of herself.

    • pud

      That is so fucking sick

    • Robert Demler

      God the Father did not say anything; it was some hack who wrote the scripture and another number of hacks revised that statement.

      • Good point!

      • NathansFather

        And you know this because? Source? Manuscript altered?

  • Evermyrtle

    JESUS gave up HIS life for all who chose to beleive on HIM, as the only begotten “SON OF GOD”and allowed HIS life to be taken, therefore each of us surely had a part in HIS death!! With each of our sins, we place another nail into HIS HEART!

    • pud

      Demonstrate that a single word you babble is actually true….waiting…waiting…

    • This is just one Christian interpretation of the meaning of the death of Jesus and is really a different question from who actually killed the first century Jew called Jesus from Nazareth in Galilee.

      We did not exist during the days of Jesus, so we didn’t put him to death.

    • pud

      Tell me you simpleton hayseed…What does it say about your invisible imaginary “god” that he would require a human sacrifice? Explain exactly how your imaginary invisible “god” sent himself as a sacrifice to himself as a loophole for rules he himself made up.

      Waiting for your brilliant logical rational explanation….

  • Miranda

    Truly, every time we are silent in the face of injustice we become like Pilate, when we focus on the letter of the law, on practicing our own righteousness, in rejecting those who call us to repent and critically reflect on our own actions we are like the Jews, every time we abandon those in need, or refuse to stand beside the poor and oppressed because we don’t want to be associated with ‘those kind of people’ we are like Peter turning from Jesus. All these things we do this very day, all sent Jesus to the cross, only God’s mercy and love turned our sentencing of Jesus into glory for God and redemption for us. Keep up the good work Pastor!

    • Jack Wellman

      Thank you for the encouragement Miranda.

      • pud

        You should not be encouraged…lying to children should be a crime. You are a delusional old man peddling fiction, guilt, shame, lies and worse…you don’t care one bit! You are oblivious to truth, evidence, reason, facts, history….you care about nothing except perpetuation of your wicked death cult

        • Miranda

          Good to see you’re still spreading the Gospel of Pud across the Pastors blog. You should collect all your Epistles together and make your own bible…”Thus Spoke Pud”!

    • Fall Colors

      In the whole New Testament, there appears but a solitary figure worthy of honor. Pilate, the Roman viceroy.

      To regard a Jewish imbroglio seriously; that was quite beyond him. One Jew more or less, what did it matter?

      • Jack Wellman

        Really!? “One more Jew more or less, what did it matter?” Wow. All lives matter my friend, including yours and mine!

  • pud

    “If only through history had they understood that it was not the Jews who killed Jesus, nor the Romans, and not even we, but it was the Father that killed Jesus.”

    Read this over and over and explain exactly how you’re not a sick sick man.

    Bonus points for demonstrating any of the following as actually TRUE! A “god” past or present. Any historical evidence for any of this. Any actual historical evidence for the “jesus” character. Explaining the biology and physics of a “god” killing himself as a sacrifice to himself. How killing someone else absolves you of anything.

    You are a deranged man jack…a sick, delusional, warped pitiful man

    You peddle tripe…horseshit…nonsense…infantile idiocy and worst of all you do this to children. For shame jack, for shame

  • Robert Demler

    Blaming the death of Jesus on God the Father was written into the scriptures for the purpose of tying Jesus the man to the divine. It is a repeat of the Abraham – Isaac storg but with a different ending. The strongest case is against the Jewish religious leaders.

    • Yes! It’s barbaric. God is alleged to have commanded Abraham to barbeque his son Isaac. It’s a command for child sacrifice.

  • westcj

    “I feel like I was driving those nails into the cross, even 2,000 years before I was born.” This statement would take a psychiatrist months to make sense of.

  • Fredrick Lembo

    Our sins killed Jesus Christ

  • Ivlia Vespasia

    I have always pitied Pontius Pilate, damned if he did and damned if he didn’t.

  • How distressing that folks who attack those with whom they disagree rather than addressing a logical argument–it is called a logical fallacy and makes me lose all interest in what the person says.
    I like the words of the recent song, “How great the Father’s Love for us” especially where he says, “It was my sins that held Him there until it was accomplished; His dying breath has brought me life; I know that is is finished”.

  • NathansFather

    PUDinskys’ drumbeats answered. (sigh – which they never will read being so twisted 🙁

    When in effect it is the PUDs in the world who seek to pollute and kill children spiritually by their lies of their father. This is for all eternity the gambit they are playing! What nerve to put themselves over the Great GOD Almighty I AM maker of Heaven and Earth. Who indeed are they? Dross in comparison to GOD.

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=God+command+the+extermination+of+the+Canaanites&t=hf&ia=web

    Why did God command the extermination / genocide of the Canaanites, women and children included?
    https://www.gotquestions.org/Canaanites-extermination.html

    The Extermination of the Canaanites
    https://www.knowingthebible.net/the-extermination-of-the-canaanites

    God’s Just Destruction of the Canaanites
    http://www.apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=12&article=1630

    • “God’s Just Destruction of the Canaanites”.

      Maybe the destruction of adults was justified because these people practised child sacrifice, which is abominable. However, putting little children and babies to the sword, then burning the cities to the ground is just barbaric and cannot be justified on any morality telling us to love others as ourselves. The barbaric murder of these little ones stands in sharp contrast to Jesus’ attitude to children and to his command to love our enemies.

  • JRene

    According to Christian doctrine, there is only one answer to the simple question of who killed Jesus: God himself.

    Christian dogma states that God is all-powerful, the author of the universe. He created a universe that requires a blood sacrifice (a living creature!) as atonement for sin. Being all-powerful, he had the option not to create this system, or to offer simple forgiveness (as we’re expected to do).

    We have our culprit.

  • Roland Leblanc

    I wonder, I just wonder if we could take a glance at this question of : “Who killed Jesus?”
    Like in Ho’Opono’pono, everyone is responsible for his life… 100 % responsability !
    Can We Say That Jesus accomplished what he had to do in his life time? And was 100 % responsible for it …
    Just a thought I wanted to share …
    Roland ♀