Worth a thousand words

Vice President Joseph Biden blesses himself after receiving communion at the memorial Mass for Archbishop Pietro Sambi on 14 September 2011.

Photo: by CNS/Leslie E. Kossoff

[Okay.  This has gone far enough.  Comments now closed. -- Ed.]

Comments

  1. ron chandonia says:

    I suspect that if anyone posts just a few of those “thousand words,” Deacon Greg will have to suspend comments again.

  2. God is the judge in the end of who commits sacrilege or scandal if receiving the Sacrament unworthily. It is very hard for a minister (priest, deacon, extraordinary minister) to deny communion to anyone in the communion line (OK travesty transsexuals like in another case might be obvious). So if the VP gets communion, it is in the end between him, his confessor and God who is not mocked or deceived, He knows.

  3. Rudy – So what you are saying then is the leadership in the Church has no authority to publicly admonish a person who publicly recieves communion while publicly making statements against the beliefs of the Church? If a businessman has an employee who is working against his business, can he admonish him?

  4. God will judge each of us in the end. I am glad Biden continues to participate in the sacraments.

  5. deaconnecessary says:

    Several years ago hen I proposed the question of denying Communion, I was told that the matter of receiving worthily or unworthily, is a matter between the communicant and God.
    God alone is judge, not the minister distributing.

  6. @Tom:

    No, am not saying that. I am saying that for the ministry distributing communion at a certain place at a certain time (like in the picture above), that is not his call. The bishop (who I think is in the pic too) must be the one to indicate to a public person like VP Biden if he can or not approach communion. There are countless people approaching the communion minister that are in a state of mortal sin, but who knows? In the case of Biden by his bishop or other competent ecclesiastical authority should be told not to approach the Sacrament if his views on abortion are against what the Church teaches.

  7. A picture of VP Biden receiving communion at Archbishop Sambi’s Memorial Mass – worth a thousand words. I have only one, Why?

    Well, I suppose it just might stimulate 999 words of civil discussion. …

    Thought that just came to my mind:
    When the family of the archbishop decided to have his funeral in his hometown in Italy the White House arranged for a U.S. government plane to fly the late archbishop’s body and his family back to Italy. – I would not surprise me if that had been Biden’s doing.

  8. Barbara Peters says:

    This is a private moment between Jesus and the Vice President. At the moment this photo was taken Jesus is sharing His Body with Mr Biden. Who are we to stand in the background and pass judgments? I am reminded of sitting in Mass one Sunday morning in a little country Church is Southern Italy about 30 years ago. The person I was sitting next to caught sight of a neighbor going up for Communion and turned to me and whispered “Look she thinks she is without sin! How dare she receive.” Is this what we have come back to? We all pray that He makes us worthy to receive Him even though none of us can ever really be worthy to receive Our Lord’s Body. What a wonderful God we have that looks past our imperfections and calls us to Him.

  9. Between the comments posted here and the photo, I am very disappointed in our clergy.

  10. Excellent thoughts Barbara. It seems to me that there is only one person that each of us needs to worry about when it comes to worthiness in receiving communion and that is oneself. And when it comes to that one person, we should take it with great seriousness.

  11. So if a person is known to be in a second, invalid marriage we are not supposed to judge the objective wrong of that person’s reception of the Eucharist? If a person openly is pro-abortion? I thought the Gospel two weeks ago was about “fraternal correction”?

  12. The Church teaches that if you are in mortal sin you should go to confession with a true contrite heart and after absolution go to communion.

    For venial sin the absolution given by the priest at Mass after is enough. Nowhere does the Church teaches that sinners cannot approach, otherwise no one would.

    According to the Church some “imperfections” that is mortal sin is enough to distance us from God.

  13. We are constantly reminded that we must look out for the physical welfare of others — food, shelter, medical treatments, etc — and do whatever we can to ensure that these needs are met. We are strongly encouraged to donate (time, talent and treasure) and to call on elected officials to change policy/law.

    It seems that when it comes to the spiritual welfare of others, which can impact not only a specific person but may others, it is none of my business.

  14. I think RomCath makes an excellent point. Yes we are all unworthy, but when do we step up and say something?

  15. ron chandonia says:

    It’s tempting to see the Eucharist as a “me and God” moment, which is how many Catholics regarded it in the pre-Vatican2 era. But we have since been reminded that our bonding with Jesus sacramentally present in the Eucharist also reinforces our communion with the Body of Christ which is the Church. Because the Eucharist is a “sacrament of unity,” even faithful Christians who are not in full communion with the Catholic Church are asked to refrain from receiving the sacrament at mass. It may not be our policy at the moment, but it certainly does not seem unreasonable to ask baptized Catholics who deny key moral teachings of the Church to likewise refrain.

  16. Personally I see nothing wrong with fraternal correction, as long as we remember that it begins first with correcting our own faults. And as long as when we engage in it we follow Christ’s instructions which is to approach the person first one on one, then with a few, then with the whole Church, and only after several attempts to correct do we treat them as if they are not in communion. That being said, we also have to take into account the teachings of last week’s readings that call for forgiving generously.

    It seems to me that if we took the Eucharist more seriously there would be either much fewer people receiving communion each week or many more receiving the sacrament of reconciliation.

  17. Deacon Greg Kandra says:

    Well, in all my years as an extraordinary minister of holy communion, and then as a member of the clergy, I’ve never seen communion denied to anyone at the altar rail.

    I suppose the only time I might refuse someone the sacrament myself is if I knew with 100% certainty that someone was, at that very instant, in a state of grave sin.

    But how would I know? And that leads to a whole host of other questions.

    How do I know the last time that person went to confession? How do I know what issues that individual is wrestling with? How do I know where he or she might be on their spiritual journey? How can I discern the state of a soul? And if I thought that I was absolutely certain, what if it turned out that I was wrong? What impact would my decision to deny communion at the moment of reception have on that person, his family, others in church who witnessed it? Could this lead to further scandal, involving gossip or detraction?

    I’m reminded of the story about Douglas Kmiec, who was publicly denied communion in 2008 because he supported Obama. Where do we draw the line?

  18. Joan Chakonas says:

    Biden has to answer to God. His day will come.

  19. This very issue was a long-standing squabble in the 2004 presidential election as well. Massachusetts Senator John Kerry took a lot of heat about going to communion from a lot of disgruntled Roman Catholic Laity.

    Deacon Greg’s blog comment here is absolutely right on!

  20. I remember that noisy mess in 2004. Without a doubt, it was the religiously-ugliest presidential election in our recent history (and 2012 is on track to be even uglier).

    The instructions my pastor and I gave to the Eucharistic Ministers’ Re-certification program in Spring of 2004 (those approvals expire on Corpus Christi Sunday) were very explicit:

    NO LAITY had the right to refuse communion to anyone who comes forward in line to receive EVER. If they did not like that decision, maybe they should re-consider this ministry

    We had already cleared that statement with our chancery.

  21. The Holy See issued a directive on when people like Biden and Pelosi can be denied communion. I believe it was authored by then Cardinal Ratzinger. Cardinal Arinze also made it very clear that politicians who support the so-called “right to choose” should not present themselves for communion.

  22. Re: Kevin #21

    Do provide a URL or similar citation so we can see it for ourselves.

    That would REALLY be helpful.

  23. Barbara Peters says:

    I cannot believe that anyone would feel worthy enough to deny another human being the Body of Christ. Deacon Greg your humility before the Eucharist is inspiring.

  24. Having a political/law opinion that some of you don’t agree with is a moral sin? we are all doomed.

  25. I wonder if the “right to choose” is to be used also as the criteria for those who enjoy, defend and push for the death penalty?

  26. Joan Chakonas your day will come also, as well as mine.

    You do not speak for God nor have you been given permission to do so.

  27. Kevin #21 — ” … Cardinal Arinze also made it very clear that politicians who support the so-called ‘right to choose’ should not present themselves for communion.”

    To say that they should not present themselves for communion is far from saying that the minister of the sacrament may refuse it to them if they do present themselves. I don’t have the document in front of me, but as I recall, it requires that the politician must be personally warned of the gravity of his/her support of abortion and persist in it (consistent with the word “obstinately” in Canon 915) before a pastor or bishop can decide to refuse the sacrament.

    No minister of Communion can decide for him/herself that someone who presents him/herself should be denied the sacrament. It’s on the conscience of the communicant unless and until the bishop or pastor makes a public declaration after meeting privately with the person.

  28. François-Robert Fournier says:

    Late Bishop Langevin who ordain me as a deacon in 1983 told us at the time;” You hve not the right to deny any sacrements to a catholic who demands it”
    Who are we to judge the conciense of anyone? Talk of a mortel sin for others is not right.

  29. Deacon John M. Bresnahan says:

    The problem with situations like Biden’s or Kerry’s is that they are not just “anyone.” Their words and actions are heard and witnessed by millions. We do not know the state of their souls, but we do know they have each supported virtually every pro-abortion bill and action that has come down the pike–while on the other hand they have each fought just about every pro-life action attempted in the political arena.( Even in their own political party they have been part of the liberal wing that is most pro-abortion, unlike the conservative pro-life wing associated with, for example, the late. Gov. Casey of Penn.)
    The idea of refusing them communion or even excommunicating them is so that noone will think the Church approves of their seeming contempt for the value of human life. (Only God knows how morally deep that contempt or culpability may be. At their judgement all will be known))
    But the Catholic Church is not just a collection of individuals. It is also a public community. And being a member of that community entails great benefits, but also great responsibility.
    As members of the Catholic community they have apparently been asked to refrain from receiving communion because of the wrong witness it gives to the Catholic community and to others based on the public anti-life reputation they have cultivated for political reasons over the years. Thus to many Catholics their contempt for that request is not the sign of a good conscience, but a sign of public contempt.

  30. Re#29 Deacon John

    “As members of the Catholic community they have apparently been asked to refrain from receiving communion because of the wrong witness it gives to the Catholic community and to others based on the public anti-life reputation they have cultivated for political reasons over the years. Thus to many Catholics their contempt for that request is not the sign of a good conscience, but a sign of public contempt.”

    Couple of things:

    –Who actually was the bishop in the diocese where Senator Ketty has his official home address? (seems to me there are four in Massachusetts ?)

    –Do you know definitively whether Senator Kerry met with or received an official communication from his RESIDENT bishop about this whole issue? (If you do know that — you may have privileged information none of the rest of us know).

    –NOW, all the noise in the world from any other bishop doesn’t mean anything. Senator Kerry is under the pastoral responsibility of his own ordinary; not the Archbishop of some isolated — but publicity hungry — location thousands of miles away.

    –The same thing is true of Vice President Biden. His salvation is the responsibility of the bishop/archbishop of his HOME diocese — no where else. His ability to receive or not received Eucharist is not yours or mine or any other living person to decide EXCEPT his home bishop.

  31. @naturgesetz. Cardinal Arinze does not agree with the distinction you make. Google ‘cardinal arinze swiss guards’ and you can watch him address the issue. It is worth the 10 minute clip.

  32. awashingtondccatholic says:

    For one of the few times in my life I am almost speechless in what I am reading here.

    If I go into a restaurant, which states that I must wear a jacket and tie to be seated and served dinner, and I show up in a speedo and swim fins (which is a horrible thought), should I demand that I be served. The answer is that I should not expect to be served and would not be suprised if I was thrown out on my butt.

    We have very well known politician, who has not said that he supports a terrible act of violence against a child, a woman and against God, but is part of an administration that does whatever it can to increase this devestation.

    This is not some guy, who is unknown, except by a handful of people in some small parish halfway across the country. This is the number #2 man in the US Federal Government. His position is very well known.

    Yet no one here, no one, is willing to stand up and say “Mr. Biden, you need to change your ways before you can receive the Body of Christ.”

    This sows confusion among many faithful. It also gives ammo and sustinence to those who wish to destroy the Church by showing that we are not willing to stand up for her principles even within our own membership.

    For many, the pedophile clergy was the thing that made many question the integrity of their priests and religious. It made them question their faith in God and the teachings of the Church. I knew that those who did such horrible things did not reflect the majority. And I stood up in public forums, and said such, and took some heat for it.

    For me, the one thing that makes me so sad and leads me to question the integrity of our many of our clergy and even at times my faith, is when there is someone is so public in their violations of our teachings, that no member of the clergy is willing to say publicly to him/her that they are wrong and cannot recieve.

    I may be banned from here for what I have said and if that is the case, I understand and accept it. I am a guest here.

    I will probably be condemned by many for questioning their integrety. (And condemned for my poor spelling).

    As I travel a long distance tonight, I will pray the Rosary as I drive. I will not only pray that he keeps me safe, but will pray for each of us, especially that He gives me the strength to remain faithful to the Church.

  33. Barbara Peters says:

    Deacon Bresnahan, with all respect, I think your position makes taking the Eucharist sound a bit like a club membership. Jesus asked that we take His Body in memory of Him – and He asked us to do this on the night before He died when He knew He was going to die a horrible death. How can any human being really understand the extent to which we join with Him and His Sacrifice when we take the Eucharist? Yes we take the Eucharist in communion with fellow Catholics, but it is also a personal union between each individual and Jesus. If Jesus did not want that individual to receive Him, certainly He would intervene? Do we know that He doesn’t? I think we need to let God be God and keep all paths open to Him. I apologize for repeated posts, but I am taken aback that anyone would really deny the Body of Christ to someone else or even feel justified in doing that.

  34. Barbara Peters says:

    I am sorry for another post but I have to add that Jesus asked us to take His Body in memory of Him knowing that He was going to die a horrible death for sinners. He did not say “Do this in memory of Me” if you are without sin. I love the Sacrament of Reconciliation and have experienced great healing there, but I think that Jesus just wants us to receive Him as we are because He loves and accepts us as we are – unconditionally. He loves us simply because He does. Perhaps we have put a condition on receiving Jesus because we think as man does and not as God does and our brains just cannot truly understand a God who loves us so much that He gives Himself to us even when we are not worthy to receive Him.

  35. This may be a rare occurence, but I’m actually in agreement with Barbara Peters on this. Who are we to know what that person’s relationship to Christ is or the state of his soul?

  36. Barbara Peters says:

    Manny I am happy to have found unity with you in the Body of Christ. Nothing is impossible with God!!

  37. I’m astonished by most of these comments. Hasn’t anyone here ever even heard of (much less read) Canon 915?

    The Church has the duty to deny Communion to those Catholics who obstinately persevere in manifest (public) grave sin. If you want to argue that a lifetime of material support for abortion that has made possible the deaths of countless unborn children is not really manifest grave sin, fine, but don’t argue that the Church doesn’t ever have the right to tell a Catholic that he or she may not present himself or herself for Communion. The Church has the right and the duty, and if some of her leaders are shirking that duty that impacts the whole Body of Christ.

  38. Erin,

    I mentioned Canon 915 in my comment, #27. Didn’t you read it? The word “obstinately” is important. The fact that the Church has a right to tell individuals not to present themselves for Communion does not make every minister judge, jury, and executioner in the absence of a declaration from one who has authority, such as the diocesan bishop, that a certain individual is to be refused Communion if s/he presents her/himself.

  39. kevin # 31

    I watched the video and listened very carefully. Cardinal Arinze did not say anything that contradicts my distinction. He did not say that an individual minister of Communion should or even may deny Communion to a pro-abortion politician. What he said was that the politician should not receive Communion, which places the burden squarely on the politician. And then he very firmly refused to answer a question about enforcement.

    He also made reference to a letter from the CDF to the American bishops. I think that is what I had in mind with respect to the requirement that the bishop meet with the politician before refusing Communion. I’ll try to find it for you.

  40. It was taught to me as a convert in rcia class that to take the Eucharist while knowingly under grave sin is the greatest of sacrileges and in no way should ever be done. Simply sit in the aisle until you can find time to go to confession. Sine Joe openly and publicly advocates for abortion he is committing a grave sin. In my discussion with parish priests he would clearly be denied.

    The only time I was told you may be able to take the Eucharist under grave sin is when you are dealing with a vice or addiction, you go to confession regularly and strive to overcome it.

    Unless abortion advocation is an addiction I don’t see how Joe can do this and get away with it

  41. This may be it, but I seem to recall an actual text.
    http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0403722.htm

    Here’s a significant quote from it.
    On the question of Communion for Catholic politicians, Cardinal Ratzinger outlined a process of pastoral guidance and correction for politicians who consistently promote legal abortion and euthanasia. That process could extend to a warning against taking Communion, and in the case of “obstinate persistence” by the politician, the minister “must refuse to distribute” Communion, he said.

    So Cardinal Ratzinger did not see refusal to distribute Communion as legitimate until after the individual had been privately warned. So an individual minister who is not the pastor has to be told that the meeting has happened and has to know that the politician has obstinately persisted even after the warning.

    Communion ministers aren’t freelancers who may take it on themselves to decide who is fit to receive and who isn’t.

  42. it is scandalous for a catholic public figure to openly flout indeed attack the church and then partake in the Eucharist as if he/she was in good standing.

    it is ridiculous to say “How can we know what’s in Biden’s heart?”. We do know…he defends murdering children and has a record of it his whole career…what do you need from him a smoking gun? does common sense no longer apply anymore? Simone please it is time to advocate for g.k. Chesterton”s sainthood…we need to pray to a saint who advocates the enlightenment of common sense to us.

    Deacon in respect it is very clear where you draw the line in denying communion..when there is no public factual record of someone engaging in open manifest grave sin (public record=knowledge no public record = no knowledge) unlike Joe Biden”s record. by the way he choose to be a public figure he
    can subject himself to the demands and suffering required of it.

    Also i believe if he by chance he had a public change of heart on his abortion position at that time before he took the Eucharist I believe the new York times and CNN would know before his bishop found out!

    St Thomas Beckett Help us find our spines and common sense! pray for us!

    when there

  43. What if someone comes up to receive the Eucharist and takes it in hand and throws it to the ground and stomps on it screaming out his political hate for the Catholic Church and then comes back each week to do the same thing? Should they be refused the sacrament? Do we know if each week they go to the sacrament of reconcilliation and thus come up free of sin if they have been forgiven? If this is well known to the bishop and he is there when the person comes up, should he give him the Eucharist over and over?

    I am a very old Catholic who thus lived in the Church before and after Vatican II. I have read all the documents many times to try to understand the Church and the changes. I have yet to see anything in them that calls for a massive change in how we give out the sacrament and who may receive it. However, I will tell you something changed in a massive way because prior to Vatican II and even for some years after Vatican II, many would not go up to recieve the sacrament because they felt they were not in the state of grace with “well formed” consicence. Now, in every mass, we see the vast majority go running up the aisle as if being in the state of grace no longer matters. Reading the comments here, I understand why. We lost the understanding of sin and our need to be in the state of grace to receive him thinking that simply saying “Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I am healed” will take away grave sin by magic. Maybe that is why the Church is changing some of the wrong words now being used and correcting them with the new liturgical being released. I see in many polls of Catholics that growing numbers no longer believe the Eucharist IS the body and blood of our Lord and Savior. It is no wonder why when so many do not believe that the Bishop should step up and remind all of us, not just Joe Biden, that coming up to the altar of God to receive HIS BODY, BLOOD, SOUL, AND DIVINITY requires us to be in the state of grace and the word we need to hear is a sincere act of repentence and the words of Christ in the sacrament of reconcilliation from his representative on earth, the priest. And at least from what I hear each week in that sacrament, the priest abvoles my sin and I am advised to go forth and sin no more. That resolve to sin no more is part of what is required of me for the sins to be forgiven. We all seem to remember Jesus stopping those who wanted to stone the woman found in the act of adultery and thus clearly guilty, but to forget Jesus telling her to sin no more.

    By not being very public and very strong in teaching what the Catholic Church teaches us about sin and the sacraments, we are being given a lie that there is cheap grace without pain or taking up our cross available. It is like giving the drug addict money for drugs and calling it charity and love. Of course we all sin and of course we need to remove the log from our own eye before we talk about the splinter in the other person. No one who is calling for the Church to be firm in her teaching to protect the Body and Blood of Christ and the drug addicted sinner is doing so out of anything other than real love. A mother who does not tell their child about running into busy streets because they might have done so as a child is not a loving mother. There are things very dangerous to us and defiling the Body and Blood of our Lord has to be right up there with something to be concerned about as Catholics.

    Sorry this is long, but if we do not cry out when so many are in error and risking their very soul, even the stones would cry out. I have not been able to find tolerance of sin anywhere in the virtues. The reason many of us talk about what the Church actually teaches is that many Bishops seem to be more interested in being popular or modern looking rather than teaching what we need to hear to save our souls. Their silence seems to demand that those who still care speak out and take the arrows and stones thrown at us by those addicted to the sacrament of tolerance. My grandaughter will recieve her first communion this year. We will all celebrate that event. However, prior to receiving that sacrament, she will recieve the sacrament of reconcilliation which seems to pass as some kind of lesser event. That is a shame for it is the sacrament that gives us the privledge of receiving Christ Body and Blood. It is the word we need to hear.

    So finally, I ask again if we have someone who recieves and throws down the Eucharist and stomps on it screaming about the Catholic Church, should they be denied the Eucharist? Being a person who has personnally fought to keep the legalization of babies being murdered legal as Joe Biden was in the Senate as head of the Judiciary and as his party does as their public policy has to be equal to the person who defames the Eucharist. Each day 4000 babies have to die and Joe Biden played a major part in this in his public life. Catholics who supported his election and that of his party also have a role in those deaths that they cannot deny for if they withheld their votes from that party until they changed that public policy, it would soon stop the slaughter as a legal policy of this country. What would Christ care about the most, the person who threw down his body and blood or the one who is a major part of the killing of 4000 of his innocent children?

    Deacon, I hope you let this pass through in total because Catholics need to hear this in forming their conscience and in actual Catholic teaching. If it is in error, plese make sure to post where Catholic teaching says it is in error so I can be informed as well. I would be eager to read that to become a better Catholic and in no way saying that I am without sin and judging others based on my policies or beliefs but as I understand to be the teaching of the Catholic Church. I fully understand that the refusal to give someone like Biden the sacrament publically if he decides to come up on his own would bring a cross to the bishop and he would face great agony even from those in the Church, but is what he is doing in looking the other way sending the right or wrong message to those in the pews? Is he helping God’s children get to heaven which to me is his main job? I think of the saints that have faced even the giving of their lives to protect the Church, and see bishops today who love to be popular and loved rather than to take up the cross that comes with the turf. Jesus said that those who follow Him will be persecuted. He did not tell them to look the other way. When those who said His teaching’s were to hard and walked away, he did not run after then and change the teaching to keep them in the pews. As I remember, the teaching in question was about eating His Body and Blood as being to harsh, to hard to accept. If the Bishops took a strong stand demanding that Catholic politicians stop supporting abortion because it is a grave sin that demands public repentence or leaves them in grave sin unable to receive Jesus Body and Blood, I suspect the rafters would come in upon them, but they would be doing God’s work in helping those who need to hear this message loud and clear get on the narrow path to life eternal with God. This is not a matter of politics, but of faith and morals and doing the job they have accepted as apostles of Christ. Judas and Peter both failed our Lord, but Peter repented and found peace with God and was willing to be crucified to not fail him again. We all need to see our Bishops out front teching what the Catholic Church believes even at the price of the cross they will certainly take up with stating truth we need to hear and to see.

  44. This surely indicates Mr. Biden and the like have no clue of what irt means to be Roman Catholic.

  45. naturgesetz. Arinze does say somewhere else that if “they should not present themselves, it should not be given to them.” I’ll try to find it. But I think that video of him is just so instructive. With great humor (“I do have some ideas, yes!”) he makes it very clear that people like Biden and Pelosi have no business going to communion given their voting records. A seven year old would understand it. Brilliant.

    Maybe they have recently confessed, sure, but given their manifest public support for legalized killing of unborn children for so many years, you’d think that they should make some public statement if they have had a change of heart. Biden just expressed understanding for China’s infanticide policy.

    So by all means, Bishops, please warn and counsel these people. It makes a mockery of Christian charity when they communicate given their public behavior on this issue.

  46. Ok. Found it. From Cardinal Ratzinger’s 2004 letter…. he makes it clear that in denying communion to those who should not receive it (as defined in the letter) the minister is not passing any judgment on the person’s subjective guilt, but is rather “reacting to the person’s public unworthiness”:

    6. When “these precautionary measures have not had their effect or in which they were not possible,” and the person in question, with obstinate persistence, still presents himself to receive the Holy Eucharist, “the minister of Holy Communion must refuse to distribute it” (cf. Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts Declaration “Holy Communion and Divorced, Civilly Remarried Catholics” [2002], nos. 3-4). This decision, properly speaking, is not a sanction or a penalty. Nor is the minister of Holy Communion passing judgment on the person’s subjective guilt, but rather is reacting to the person’s public unworthiness to receive Holy Communion due to an objective situation of sin.

  47. Apparently, in the past, the Church used to publicly reprimand “Public Figures & Leaders” who had openly committed and would continue to commit grave sin and had not or would not repent. The comments on this forum seem to imply that the saints and ordained clergy of the past may have been wrong to do so. This kind of questionable reasoning may be summed up best in this way: “But how do we REALLLY know what’s in Joe’s heart?”…Common Sense Answer: Look at his past and continued active record. A record which is supported by his own “Free Will & Choices” in both voting record and as well in his to pursue a position of “Public Leadership” in the first place.

    The Evidence:

    1. Gay Marriage is inevitable and I follow Obama in that my position is “Evolving”. http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-12-25/news/26286144_1_gay-marriage-defense-of-marriage-act-military-service-chiefs
    2. Joe Biden’s Record of Abortion: http://www.lifenews.com/2008/08/23/nat-4187/

    Again their is some convoluted reasoning in this forum. So by their acts, “You will NOT?!? and never REALLY know or understand them?” Interesting…

    From Becket: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRt2cKvJLlE

    Father we are a politically correct society so brow beaten and afraid of those who demand politically correct orthodoxy that indeed we may even be unaware that we are making “Any” sense at all…open our eyes, awaken our minds, strengthen our wills and bring us leaders with spines. Amen.

  48. Barbara Peters says:

    It is nice to see that we have so many sinless Catholics who are happy to throw stones at others.


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