“Does she have cooties?”: Catholic school forfeits baseball game over girl on opposing team


A fundamentalist Arizona Catholic high school is refusing to play in a baseball final as their opponent’s team includes a girl on second base.

Our Lady of Sorrows Catholic school, in Phoenix, will forfeit the final rather than play against Mesa Preparatory Academy because 15-year-old Paige Sultzbach is on their team.

The fundamentalist Catholic school is run by the U.S. branch of the Society of Saint Pius X. The group represents conservative, traditional priests who broke from the Catholic Church in the 1980s.

The school’s statement read, “Our school aims to instill in our boys a profound respect for women and girls. Teaching our boys to treat ladies with deference, we choose not to place them in an athletic competition where proper boundaries can only be respected with difficulty.”

Paige’s mother Pamela responded by saying, “This is not a contact sport, it shouldn’t be an issue. It wasn’t that they were afraid they were going to hurt or injure her, it’s that they believe that a girl’s place is not on a field.”

The athletic director at Mesa Preparatory Academy said, “I respect their views, but it’s a bit out of the 18th century.”

The Mesa team coach said she was angry. She said “What true athlete would want to win or lose a championship game by forfeit?”

Lisa Maatz, director of public policy at the American Association of University Women, told AP that this was an example of why laws which enforce gender equality in education programs, including sports, are necessary.

She said, “The very idea that such stereotypes are so strong, they’d actually forfeit a game simply because a girl was on the field. That’s ridiculous…Does she have cooties?”

Read more.


  1. Do they not realize it’s a gesture of respect?

  2. When I heard this story reported on NPR , I was disappointed that a Catholic bishop would encourage this type of sexism.

    So I read here that it is not truly a roman catholic organization, but rather a SSPX affiliated school.
    If and when the organization finally decides they want to rejoin the Church ( vs ordain Bishops outside the approval of the recent Popes as they have done over in recent decades) perhaps it would be appropriate to call them Catholic.

    Before anyone objects to that classifcation

  3. Richard M. Sawicki says:

    I wish I could get most media types to understand that terms like “fundamentalist”, “puritan” or “puritanical”, are, by definition, terms that refer to PROTESTANTS, not Catholics.

    That minor point aside, this incident exemplifies a major problem with the SSPX and ultra-Trads in general. (Full disclosure 1: I consider myself tradition-AL, without being traditional-IST. There is a big difference. Full disclosure 2: I fervently pray for reconciliation between Rome and the SSPX.)

    The outward worldview of much of the SSPX goes beyond reverence for Catholic tradition as it relates to faith, morals, and the proper interpretation of the Second Vatican Council. There is a palpable sense that many, or even most, SSPX-ers hold that a Western European Monarchical society is the only proper way for people to live.

    While I agree that young men should be raised to treat young ladies (and all women) with deference in ordinary social interaction, a sporting competition or athletic contest is not ordinary social interaction, and such notions of deference do not obtain.

    If one digs deeper, one will find similar situations where SSPX pronouncements go even further. I believe I read a story about where some SSPX-affiliated parents did not want their kids to participate in a particular school athletic program because the students’ coach was a woman, and they did not like the idea of placing their sons in a situation where “a woman would have authority over them”, or some such verbiage as that (really taking a Pauline injunction way out of context!).

    It is not a given that the only people who dislike the SSPX are “liberals” or “deconstructionists” or “modernists”. Sometimes the SSPX folks do things that are simply repulsive and not particularly conducive to gaining an audience sympathetic to their plight.

    Gaudete in Domino Semper!

  4. I read some articles about this yesterday; the headlines for this story all read something like “Catholic school forfeits baseball game over girl on opposing team”. Which is misleading from the get-go; the SSPX is a schismatic group not in communion with the Catholic Church. It’s bad enough for the Church to always be getting the negative press without getting blamed for stuff that the SSPX’ers did. Baseball isn’t even a contact sport, I don’t see what their problem is; don’t know how they can spin it as “respect”.

  5. Barbara P says:

    I read on an SSPX website that women are not even permitted to sing in Church choirs. I am also reading on the Internet that it is likely that the Vatican will announce by the end of May that it has accepted SSPX back into the Church. I am concerned as to the message this will send to Catholic women.

  6. I am not sure that our celibate priesthood and hierarchy focuses much on women’s opinions.

  7. Barbara P says:

    I am genuinely curious as to why people, including the Pope, feel such urgency in SSPX’ reconciliation with the Church. I have read a story online quoting the SSPX leader (sorry I don’t remember his name or title) as saying that the Pope wants this reconciliation to happen now. Given the group’s views, some of which you discussed in your comment, I don’t see why this is so important. The other issue of concern is that I have also read that those in SSPX who support reconciliation believe they will gradually influence the Church to incorporate their positions that include an objection to freedom of religion and ecumenicism.

  8. Barbara, then what about the men and women in this SSPX choir?


    Of course we can’t ignore sexist personal opinions of our neighbors, but we can’t dismiss entire groups based on the actions of some. The reality is always more complex.

  9. Richard M. Sawicki says:

    The comment about choirs refers to Papal legislation on Sacred Music from 1903 that subsequent popes (namely Pius XII and Paul VI) long ago overrode. But since the SSPX-ers think of both Pius XII and Paul VI as “modernists”, they choose to ignore that fact.

    Just an example of how Cafeteria Catholicism exists on the right as well as the left.

    Gaudete in Domino Semper!

  10. I am concerned as to what message that will send to all Catholics. There used to be the same Mass and the same rules for all Roman Catholics (not including Eastern Catholics that are in full communion with Rome). Now they have added different Masses and different groups (such as Anglican-Catholics). We are one, sort of.

  11. 1. Because this is a “Woman’s Rights” article and therefore “It is always important to remind people upfront that “Women’s Rights Issues” are always and in every instance…on the side of the angels”……the journalist must first start by opening the article using a media constructed “Red Flag” term………referencing the dreaded…”Teh Fundamentalists”…..oooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhh.
    2. Women, please understand something, it is not your “God-Given, Militant, Feminist-Jihadist Right” to penetrate every possible organization or institution that men historically get together to do male bonding or man things. Men & boys need their space just like Women & girls need their space. Men understand this about women…apparently women today do not at all understand this anymore about Men. It is not going to go well in the future if men cannot even engage in organized recreational activities without some kind of militant feminist or even “Feminine” invasion into their space. Is nothing sacred?
    3. Bottom Line: That girl does not need to be playing baseball with the boys, period. It is that simple….she can organize a girl’s baseball team or softball or whatever. Let men and boys bond and stop with this incessant political correctness.
    4. So yeah….Feminists, unclench your fist and let the boys of summer do their thing and go home…. and to those dad’s who are sports freaks and only had girls? Send them into girls sports organizations instead of trying to turn your little girl into the boy you never had. Sheeesh….Unbelievable.

  12. Barbara…

    Christianity is not about making sure that women are well represented in the choir loft. Nor is it about advancing the utopian interests of a Feminist-Inspired Gender Neutral Future Society. Nor is it about ignoring the strengths, weaknesses & differences inherent in the genders. Nor is it about 24X7 “Social Justice” as defined by “Secular Humanist Dogma” spilling into the church. Honestly Barbara it would be very difficult to attend a parish with a person like you that is literally “Counting the number of women represented” in the Parish Choir to ensure the “Dogma of Affirmitive Action” is in full-effect”.

  13. Peter,

    If, as the liberals say, there are no differences in the genders than what specifically in a woman’s opinion requires, “Special & Elevated Consideration” above men’s exactly….if it is equal….it is merely just an opinion and opinions are weighed and considered…adopted and/or thrown away….regardless of the kind of genitals one wears correct?

  14. Richard M. Sawicki says:

    Reconciliation is important for several reasons:

    1. The SSPX is a legitimate Religious Order founded in 1969 with all proper approval by the local Swiss bishop in whose Diocese it originated, and later extended by Pope Paul VI. As such the unfortunate situation of canonical irregularity must be resolved for the spiritual good of all involved. The longer these situations go on, the greater the danger that the separation will evolve into a full schism, such as what happened with the Mariavites in Poland in the early 20th Century.

    2. The “views” held by individual members of the SSPX, are separate from the issue of the deposit of Faith. If an SSPX member holds to the fullness of the Catholic faith, while at the same time holding a perhaps socially or politically repulsive personal opinion, that does not make them any less Catholic (witness the unfortunate opposite situation where clergy and prelates and prominent layfolk who are openly heretical are treated as “fully Catholic”).

    3. The issue of Freedom of Religion really is not an issue, because the objections are really about Dignitate’s phraseology, not content or intent (which could be called an issue of “religious psychology”, perhaps? Sort of, not what it says, but HOW it says it.)

    4. Ecumenism is a word that is badly misunderstood. It refers to efforts to reunify all baptized Christians into the one fold. It does not mean, as many contemporary folks think, efforts to promote indifferentism (the idea that one religion is as good as another) and religious syncretism. Sadly the SSPX are correct in accusing many Catholics of following the latter, erroneous interpretation.

    In the final analysis, the Holy father is doing his best, with the time on earth that he has been given to occupy the Chair of Peter, to do what he can that we may all be one again, as Our Lord prayed the night of his betrayal.

    Gaudete in Domino Semper!

  15. Joe,

    Sexism? Really? Giving boys a chance to male bond in an organized recreational activity such as baseball is Sexism?

    Get a grip pal.

  16. Sorry, but girls do not have cooties. There have been some bad changes in the last 50 or 60 years. This is not one of them.

  17. Sorry Will,

    This is not about “Cooties” it is about Men and boys having their own space in society. Unless you think that is incredibly wrong. Baseball does not need to be invaded by feminist ideology.

    You couldn’t be more wrong.

  18. IntoTheWest says:

    It’s not respectful to think women are something less than men.

  19. IntoTheWest says:

    Oh please. They can still “male bond” even if one of their teammates is a girl. Sports isn’t about male bonding. It’s about personal excellence and/or team work (depending on the sport).

  20. Conchúr says:

    I would be stunned if any SSPxers thought of Pius XII as Modernist!

  21. So boys & men can’t play baseball together without including girls or women because that tells society that Quote, “By not including girls or women into sports with men we are saying that they are less than men………P.S. It is than implied than same sex genders bonding with each other to the exclusion of the opposite gender is the “Base-Master Evil of all Evils and must be militantly stamped out so much so that…..your son’s Pee Wee Baseball Game now has to 33% of its roster filled out by girls”?

    This world is insane

  22. IntoTheWest says:

    I agree. I often hear ultra-trads go on about the bajillion splits among the protestant coummunity, but the reality is those same factions and subfactions and subsubfactions exist among Catholics, too.

  23. The ignorance on this thread is stunning, not to say depressing.

    The sspx and its adherents are Catholics, not a breakaway church.

    In no sense can they be characterized as fundamentalist.

    Championship baseball can certainly be a contact sport.

    The sspx school is entirely within its rights to point out the truth that the sexes (not “genders”), especially beginning in late adolescence, are distinctive and complementary — not equivalent.

  24. OH HECK NO!!! NOT AGAIN!!! It’s the bloddy ignorant 2008 St. Mary’s Kansas event all over again when they went all sexist crazy cause the referee was female so they wouldn’t play. These guys must learn if they are to become canonically valid and licit under Rome to pipe up and tolerate this, cause Rome won’t! They won’t be allowed to be misogynist under Rome’s command!

    And you wonder why I am somewhat suspicious of the SSPX psychologically/socially.

  25. Really, its “Not about Male Bonding”? Are you serious? Amazing…utterly amazing. I can only presume IntotheWest that you see no part of life or society where males and females have a need to congregate and fratenize with each other minus the other gender.

    Amazing….this would seem to go against the observations of human history

  26. IntoTheWest says:

    Yes, but then when women fought for equal financial and administrative support for creating their own teams, the same people who tend to fret over this girl being on a mostly male team got all upset about that, saying mioney and support given to the girls was money and support being taken away from the boys So it’s not all about boys having their own space. It’s about only allowing boys to occupy that particular space.

  27. Young Canadian RC Male,

    Do you think there is a place in society where boys can congregate together, engage in any activity such as, I don’t know, recreational organized sports, and do so without having to include the other gender if they do want to? Or is that “Inherently Sexist” and must be mercilessly stamped out at all costs?

  28. IntoTheWest

    I’m gonna say it again. Do you think its okay for boys to engage and play on sports teams in the public square and not have to include girls if they don’t want too? Or is that a “Base Evil” that must be stamped out at all costs?

  29. “the SSPX is a schismatic group not in communion with the Catholic Church.”

    False, on both counts.

  30. Tyler, I’m all about having boys having their own space and all of that. I carry around Christina Hoff Sommers ‘War Against Boys’ like a 19-year-old romantic would carry around Rilke or Blake. But as an athlete and a baseball player for many years, I can’t really see what’s so damaging about a girl playing on a baseball team, as long as she knows what’s she getting into. If she can cut it, then she can cut it. I understand the points about comradery, I agree that a girl in a mix messes this up. But I just don’t think all of these valid points apply to a baseball team.
    Different story for a contact sport. When that evangelical wrestler forfeited instead of wrestling a girl, I found the decision by the kid not just wise, but necessary.

    Man, this is too bad. I dig SSPX in a lot of ways, their weird quirks (and people) aside. Too bad about this. I think the mainline church and this group could do each other some good. I don’t think their decision to forfeit is crazy. I don’t think it’s the right decision, either.

  31. Will,

    I would be concerned too. This message, that boys and girls are different. And its “Ugly” symbolic and offensive example of baseball teams filled with boys who want to play other teams of baseball playing boys, is, as we already know, only one wiggle away from a militant form of oppression that likes the world has never seen.

    Notify the Bishops…Boys wanting to play other Boys in Baseball? Something evil is afoot and we must stop it now! :Cue Superhero Music:

  32. IntoTheWest says:

    Sports are not about male bonding. Sports are about athletic excellence. We have seen the worst of what comes out of these all-boys having a high old “male bonding” time all too often via fraternity incidents, football team incidents, etc. “Male bonding” seems to involve drinking like morons and being pigs towards women. Maybe it’s a good thing there’s a girl on the team to remind them that the primary purpose is athletic excellence, not locker room idiocy.

  33. IntoTheWest says:

    They can. And teams that wish to include girls and women can do that also. This team chose to include this young woman. Yet now you are telling them they should not have that option. How about we let each team decide instead of outsiders tell them what they must and must not do?

    It’s disrespectful of the OTHER team to make a big show of forfeiting because she’s on this team. It says that they think less of her, that this team is now beneath them because of her presence.

    Frankly, sounds like they knew they were going to get their butts whipped and took the easy way out rather than man up and take the loss.

  34. Nope. Scratch that. I’ve changed my mind. I think the decision made by this school is a good one.
    Take out slides.
    Hard tags.
    Collisions at home plate.
    Intentional bean balls.

    These are all required and virtuous parts of the game (yes: sometimes virtue requires you to bean someone. If you don’t know that, you don’t play baseball.).

    Not a good idea to mix in the gals, and entirely honorable for a bunch of boys to not want to engage in these activities with a gal.

  35. Nate,

    Than you didn’t really understand Christian Hoff Sommers book did you? The girl can play sports with other girls. I appreciate your effort to make a nuanced point but its not called, “Boys of Summer” for no reason. The exception is not the rule. Let boys have their space so they understand what it means to grow up to be a responsible man…like it or not Nate…yes even something as harmless as “Baseball” aids in that. Girls have plenty of spaces carved out by society for them. I would also add that of all the sports, Baseball is uniquely one that has the most promise to groom and represent positive masculine values.

  36. IntoTheWest says:

    If _they_ choose not to include girls, that’s fine. But if they do choose to include girls, that’s fine, too. This particular team chose to include a girl. The namby-pamby losers on the other team had a fit of vapors over it and wimped out. Win-win for everyone.

  37. ” If she can cut it, then she can cut it.”

    It’s un-Catholic to reduce the human person to mere functionality. A Church with a sacramental economy understands that each of us is far more that just what he or she can “do”.

  38. Mercedes says:

    I see Title 9 as a wonderful by-product of the Civil Rights movement. Catholic priests and sisters were active in that movement. It appears from reading the news that there are still some who recognize injustice when they see it.

  39. IntoTheWest,

    You are an ignorant fool if you believe that. And the only possible tangential relevance to your point may be that since 1960 sports has been detached from its Christian Influences as part of the character building that was done to help guide a boy into a man. Nonetheless, it still does occur.

    It is and always has been part of the male bonding experience throughout human history.

  40. Yes IntotheWest.

    They are choosing not to play a team which succumbs that symbolically represents something they do not believe in. They believe baseball is for boys and is a ritual exercise in comradery and sportsmanship uniquely part of growing into a man…. and if girls want to play it…play amongst themselves. I believe they are right.

    Where they are being disrespectful of is not coming out and saying it more directly. It would be hard but I would try to craft a statement expressing my full belief that playing baseball is part of a unique experience in a boys life and is one of those parts of society where it is okay to give boys their space….I would not apologize for it by try to defend it with dignity.

  41. This is not about “Choosing” this is about establishing rules in civil society where the genders can work & socialize amongst themselves without wondering if the “Thought Police” will hunt them down for failure of being “Inclusive”.

    I would put money on it that a majority of dads on the “Co-Ed” Baseball team if were allowed to openly express their opinions would not approve of it. But are most likely terrified that the thought police would come to make an example out of them. I would also posit that Daddy of the girl is one of those idiots who didn’t have a son and is projecting his wishes onto his girl.

  42. Nate: while you’re at it, add wild pitches and the disincentives of throwing an intimidating fast ball against a female opponent.

  43. IntotheWest,

    Also in “Fighting for Financial & Administrative Support” means “Title 9″. The hard truth is that nobody wants to watch women’s sports the way they want to want men’s sports. This includes women wanting to watch men’s sports more than women’s sports. Title 9 is when looked at objectively a waste of money and utopian. BTW: My wife played College Basketball and she agrees.

    P.S I know this is going to hurt real bad for some….but the reason for all this……Shhhhhh keep it quiet. Boys & Men are more athletic and stronger than women…and therefore can play sports more spectacularly. Offensive to be sure…I get it….but I’m thinking any scienctist worth his merit and sports statistician would be willing to testify with objective material evidence both in DNA and stats and ticket sales.

    I now await crucifixion

  44. “Sports are about athletic excellence.”

    Only if you have a disordered, non-Christian view of the world. This too is a reductionist view of the human person. Sports are a moral school (and theatre) at least as much as they’re a physiological exercise.

  45. Barbara P says:

    Tyler you seem to be very angry at women and have forgotten that in Jesus there is neither male or female. I am not counting how many women are represented in a choir but find it disturbing that some people may think that women cannot use their gifts to praise God as part of a choir during the liturgy just because they are women. I disagree with everything you have posted here. However since Christ prayed that we would all be one I would worship God at a Mass with you. May the Peace of the Lord be with you.

  46. Barbara P says:

    Boys have plenty of opportunities to congregate and bond. I dont see any girls trying to join the Boy Scouts. The rules of this school league permitted girls to play on the teams. The SSPX school should have respected the rules and this girl or they should have chosen not to play in the league.

  47. http://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/blog.cfm?id=87&repos=6&subrepos=2&searchid=395463
    According to this, schismatic would be the correct description of its situation right now.

  48. deacon john m. bresnahan says:

    One thing that bothers me is how, a few–maybe many– , girls are being pushed into some sports when it really isn’t their choice.
    What I mean is, at least in our area, in all the fields , playground areas–even parking lots where boys are putting together sandlot, or “pick-up” baseball, basketball, or touch football games– you NEVER see girls organizing their own games of ‘pick-up’ because they love playing sports so much that they do it on their own as so very many boys do.
    About the only time I see a lot of girls playing sports together is in organized sports with mom and dad egging them on. Are the girls genuinely in love with participating in sports?? Or are those egging them on (and their egged on daughters) just being obedient servants to our “equality” at any cost culture????
    And then, according to some activists, if someone doesn’t like how private citizens are behaving, the government cavalry must therefore insert itself as “equality” enforcers .
    A number of years ago the public high school my daughter attended went from uni-sex gym classes to sexually integrated gym classes. Most of the girls hated the change and some found ways of dropping the gym class after the instructors said “get over it’ when the girls complained about boys constantly squeezing and pinching them. Needless to say the boys were all in favor of the new way of doing things and were always comparing notes on who was able to “grab off” which girl.

  49. Barbara P says:

    As long as the issue doesn’t get resolved in such a way as to cause spiritual harm to others

  50. Melody, thanks for your reference to a six year old article presenting a private opinion. Please be informed that the Holy See has declared that the sspx is NOT in schism, notwithstanding the schismatic act of ordaining illicit bishops. For this act the bishops only were excommunicated (more recently reconciled), but never declared to be in schism. The sspx is correctly described as being canonically irregular, though even that seems likely to be righted within a few weeks.

  51. Hi Barbara,
    It is true that the rules state that girls can play. I’m not sure, however, if simply refusing to play in the league *at all* because of this rule would be a reasonable response. Perhaps it would be reasonable if numerous teams in their schedule–or perhaps even more than a few–had girls on them. But a coach can do a simple three-minute web search to see if there are any girls on any of the teams in their conference, to see whether their playing in the league would necessitate multiple forfeits. I agree that had they joined the league and then forfeited a few games, that would be poor use of foresight. These circumstances, I think, are different, given that this was a team that they could not have reasonably foreseen of playing.

  52. From earlier:

    “”If she can cut it, then she can cut it.”

    It’s un-Catholic to reduce the human person to mere functionality. A Church with a sacramental economy understands that each of us is far more that just what he or she can “do”.”

    Good points, Romulus.

  53. I think it is a little silly not to play because there is a girl on the opponent’s team. However, it is their choice as a school, and if that is what their values tell them they should do then so be it. In this case, groups who normally are advocating for tolerance are being given a chance to show some tolerance of another viewpoint themselves. Let’s see how they do.

  54. Thank you, Nate. I should add that a Catholic view would be that in sports it’s the whole person playing, not just the physiological organism. It’s this that endows sports with a true human dignity and makes them worth playing and following. The sexual revolution aims to reduce sex to gender, making it optional or a footnote. Christians know that it has an ontological dimension and thus resides at the core of our being, signifying eternally.

  55. pagansister says:

    Wonder what other indoctrination regarding girls/women and equality the boys at Our Lady of Sorrows are getting?

  56. friscoeddie says:

    The Catholic Trads and hierarchy are not having a war on women. They just want it like in the ‘good ole days’ when the women would stay behind the fence they put them in. Just like they had for the Colored people. It’s 2012 Creeps

  57. Barbara P says:

    Aren’t they in the same league? It seems as if the SSPX school team has certain views of women and girls that are not compatible with the rules of this league. They caused public embarrassment to this young girl when they used her presence as the reason for not playing in a championship game that I am sure all the players on both teams were looking forward to. That sure taught the boys respect for women.

  58. Regarding your first point, I am curious what girls in your area do since they are not engaged in “pick-up” sports.

  59. Barbara P says:

    “Needless to say…” Are you saying that we need to keep boys and girls separated because boys cant learn to treat girls as something other than sex objects? Are you saying boys will be boys so lets keep girls sequestered? I ant believer are back to debating these attitudes.

  60. Barbara P says:

    If there is no war on women than what are those battle cries I am hearing?

  61. Barbara P, the lesson learned by the Catholic boys was most likely that the world is full of hypocrisy and injustice, and that the Cross is the instrument not of defeat but of our victory. I don’t doubt their disappointment, but they will gain much in wisdom for this sacrifice.

  62. vox borealis says:

    Who friggin’ cares? Really. It’s a private school that plays (I assume) in a private school league. Presumably the league or conference knew about this particular private, religious school’s views on this matter and the league apparently allowed them to play. I am sure the school was warned that they would have to forfeit games should this situation arise, it did, and they forfeited. Big whoop.

    If the winning-by-forfeit team is so aggrieved, the perhaps the league or conference can come up with an alternate opponent (i.e., the team that the SSPX school defeated to get to the next round).

  63. vox borealis says:

    Then there is this quote: “I respect their views, but it’s a bit out of the 18th century.” No, the dismissive insulting tone proves that you do NOT respect their views. You may respect that have views (i.e., you are not yet in favor of forcing them to play), but you certainly do not respect their views.

  64. vox borealis says:

    As I pointed out below:

    Then there is this quote: “I respect their views, but it’s a bit out of the 18th century.” No, the dismissive insulting tone proves that you do NOT respect their views.

    At best they literally tolerate the other view, i.e., they will not force the school to play or presumably throw them out of the conference.

  65. pagansister says:

    Or Romulus, they may be continuing to learn that women are for marriage and making babies, and staying home to raise them, so the MAN can go out and earn the living. And if a woman plays sports, it is only on an all female team.

  66. joe mc faul says:

    But there’s no requirement whatsoever to respect their misogynist, despicable and unorthodox views. The athletic director was was just being polite.

  67. vox borealis says:

    I didn’t say their was a requirement. But don’t BS. It was not polite, it was condescending.

    BTW, what precisely do you mean by “unorthodox views”? Are you really suggesting that we have no obligation to respect someone else’s views simply because they are non-conventional, like if they are vegetarians or don’t own a TV or some other unorthodox position. What a scary mindset.

  68. Barbara P says:

    And it is okay to embarrass and humiliate girls who are not good enough to play with the boys because God made them different

  69. SSPX is to be commended on one matter: They have clarified the exact point where ultra-conservative Catholicism and Salafist Islam intersect.

  70. We needn’t wonder too much on that point. Translate the curriculum of any average madrassa in tribal Waziristan, salt it with some crabbed interpretations of Catholic catechism, and you’ll have the essense, if not exact wording, of what’s going on at this SSPX school.

  71. Romulus:

    I agree BXIV has offered a glide path for the SSPX to “return to the fold” and that included lifting the most proper excommunication by the Holy father of those who became ‘bishops’ in full disobedience to the instruction of the Roman pontiff. It is my understanding that at the current time they are considered Bishops in the RC church by the vatican, even with the excommunication lifted.
    If, as some including I think the leadership of the SSPX believed a few years ago , the current Pope secretly agreed with the SSPX on those issues that caused ‘canonical irregularity’, this puppy would have been a done deal a long time ago. Clearly BXIV was offering union, but not at the cost of truth.

    Those drawn to a more traditionalist practice and a sincere union and real acceptance of Rome and all of the councils including VCII will take advantage of that glide path and land back in the fold.

    Others, who insist VCII was just a bunch of bishops in Rome for talking and good dinner, and for example continue to cling to the anti jewish filth the official SSPX website published for years because some papal bull said it 150 years ago and that somehow trumps the Holy Spirit and the Bishop of Rome and the Bishops of world in ecumenical council, will miss the landing zone and be in clear schism.

  72. Pagansister, men also are for marriage and making babies — only in a different, complementary way. Isn’t it lovely?

  73. sorry they are NOT considered bishops within the RC church…

  74. Well Kenneth, Vatican 2 does remind us that elements of truth are to be found in other religions. Why not some in traditional Islam? I hope you’re not one of those throwbacks that rejects Vatican 2.

  75. High School varsity sports are a meritocracy in IMO. If a girl outplay you because she hits better, runs faster, throws more accurately or works harder– the answer is work harder son.

    In this case, i just wish the reports made clear it was a SSPX school.- not a Catholic school.

  76. Oh, yes they are. They confer valid sacraments, including confirmation ans holy orders. Not licitly, but no one disputes the genuineness of their orders, any more than those of the Orthodox.

  77. “Until the doctrinal questions are clarified, the Society has no canonical status in the Church, and its ministers – even though they have been freed of the ecclesiastical penalty – do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church.”

    “Letter of His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI to the Bishops of the Catholic Church Concerning the Remission of the Excommunication of the Four Bishops Consecrated by Archbishop Lefebvre”. Letter of 10 March 2009

    Has this been modified by BXVI over the last three years?

  78. Joe,

    This is not the evidence and in normal human biological observance usually men are stronger, faster, & more balanced than women.

  79. Barbara,

    “You seem” to be falling back on a response that is indicative of anybody who questions “Feminism” or so called “Woman’s Rights”. Any anger you may be picking up is probably due to the ridiculous world we live in where boys cannot play a simple game of baseball without gender politics playing a part.

    Of course you would disagree it is supremely politically incorrect to question any kind of stance taken by women through gender politics. Barbara you should be aware. “Woman’s Rights” does not mean “Right” nor “Objective” nor as I mentioned earlier, “Automatic Side of the Angels”. In fact, there are movements that are politically fueled by women that are completely utterly wrong & evil.

    Criticism of feminist or women’s right political movements….if you really want equality are fair game and do not automatically denote, “Must be angry at women”.

    P.S Barbara…lets get real here….you ARE counting.

  80. Mercedes accept that it is a waste of money and nobody really patronizes woman’s sports. BTW: That is not an intrinsic evil it just is reality.

  81. Joe, you can’t make this say what it doesn’t say. The sspx bishops are real bishops. The priests they ordain are real priests, ans the Masses they celebrate are real Masses. You clearly do not comprehend the issues. Do some homework.

  82. All boys and all girls schools work great because the distractions are not there and the curriculum and culture can be focused on teaching and learning in the styles and manners that exploit the inherent differences in the genders. It has nothing to do with “Boys will be Boys” Barbara.

  83. Obviously everything would be great if there were no female lectors/EMHC, no altar girls, and nuns were all in habits again. The parish would look like it used to so all the problems would go away. Those mentioned above, along with the mothers in the CCD program, have gotten us in the state we are in.

    It would be fine with me if a young woman were skilled enough to make the boys varsity team. I am really glad though that young women in our community and across the U.S. can play a variety of team sports at a high level and earn college scholarships for continuing to play their sport in college. I am thrilled for them.

  84. What Century did Jesus come out of again? That Old-Fashioned Curmudgeon that he was..

  85. Probably the “Orthodox-Kind” Pagan instead of the secular-Culture-of-Death stuff regularly shoved down their throats

  86. “Not a contact sport”????

    Ever try to steal second?

  87. Yup….being realistic about gender differences and roles is only one step AWAY from…….”TEEEHHH RACISSSS”. The intellects of leftists are similar to the “Infinite Loop” problems in software bugs. When in doubt….always, always…reference and compare anything and everything to……”RACISM”.

    After you learn that lesson kids…we will teach “Potty-Training” next.!

  88. And of all centuries, to place them in the 18th, with Voltaire, Diderot, Frederick II, and all that gang? Oh, my aching sides. Be serious, please.

  89. Pagan,

    Do you deny that men and women need time to bond and identify with their own gender? If not, explain to me how the human biological need to do this is wrong? After that, reconcile it with some theology please.

    Thank you

  90. and Joe McFault resorts to ‘name-calling’ because a school wants to have boy teams play other boy teams. Genius Joe…Genius

  91. Barbara what you are hearing is a cynical ploy by political elites who are preying on the emotions of women, (Who Vote Democrat In Wide Swaths) to ensure President Obama gets re-elected by ginning up an issue that does not exist.

    I have know doubt many mindless lemmings will nod their heads rigorously, drooling, wide-eyed, mindless…..but entirely ready to suspend all reason to ensure the Catholic Church surgically attaches condom dispensing machines to every one of their institutional employee’s bodies before its done.

    “Teh WAR on WOMYN!”

  92. IntoTheWest says:

    Fine. Good for them. Maybe they ought to remove themselves from the league and play with like-minded teams then. This school has no issue with this. All the other teams they’ve played so far have no issue with this. This SSPX school does. They forfieted. Fine. Like I said, win-win. They don’t have to sully their special selves playing a team with a strong female athlete on it, and the other teams don’t have to put up with their Pharisitical take on the matter, either. Matter’s resolved.

  93. friscoeddie says:

    ‘ultra-conservative Catholicism and Salafist Islam intersect.’ Right… it used to be fascism that intersected with the Ultra-conservative Catholicism ..but the salutes and uniforms became non-pc.

  94. Isabel,

    The issue is not about “Skilled Enough”. The issue is about “Spaces for the Genders to organize & identify with” in the public square where it is not considered a base-level evil heresy of the greatest kind. Let boys play baseball with boys…why must girls insert themselves? Whats the point?

  95. This in contrast to the more enlightened garbage they get right now in high doses-spoon fed from the public schools and many Catholic Ones….Blessed be Sts. Marx, Sanger, Sartre, Darwin…

  96. IntoTheWest says:

    I’m an athlete, have been my entire adult life. I’m speaking from the perspective of a competitive athlete.

    Yes, Christian morality comes into play. I respect my fellow competitors. I respect the rules of the game. I respect my body and the bodies of my fellow athletes.

    However, I do not treat those who’ve chosen to enter the same competition I have differently based on their gender, their ethnicity, their skin color, or their sexual orientation. I see them all as equally deserving of respect, as individuals who’ve disciplined themselves, trained hard and have determined they are up to the challenge.

    Christian influence, my foot. The Olympics don’t come from a Christian tradition. American football, even, doesn’t come from a Christian tradition. Nor does LAX, or a variety of other less universal sports. Many of them come from non-Christian cultures.

    Christian morality has it’s place in the way we treat our fellow athletes, in the honor and integrity with which we approach our races, our meets, or our games. There is no Christian moral code that excludes females from participating in athletic competition, whether that means playing on an all-female team or playing on a mixed gender team.


    What’s your competitive sport, what’s your status as an athlete?

    What’ve you won lately…?

  97. Where are the big stories about boys who want to play on girls teams and are discriminated against? Feminist hypocrisy.

    Girls can play on boys teams but boys can’t play on girls teams.

    1) Boys Swimming on Girls Teams Find Success, Then Draw Jeers

    2) Boy banned as ‘too good’ for girls’ field hockey team

  98. This isn’t about baseball.

  99. IntoTheWest says:

    Oh…so this isn’t about Christian morality after all. It’s about advertising dollars and the amount of income a school can rake in through it’s athletic programs.

    Why didn’t you just say that from the get-go, Tyler?

    Title 9 isn’t about TV time or advertising dollars or school revenue. It’s about providing young women with the same athletic opportunities young men have available to them.

    Women want to compete. Whether someone else wants to watch them or not has no bearing on their desire to compete and their right to have their tuition dollars allocated to their efforts in the same way male students’ tuition dollars are allocated.

    Also, we’re talking about trained competitive athletes, not the average man or woman. I’m stronger and faster than a male couch potato half my age. And women make better endurance athletes than men. You may be bigger, you may be faster, and you may have greater upper body strength, but females will still fare much better during an ultra than men will. We run longer far more efficiently than men do, and recover much more quickly. And we do it for ourselves, not for spectators or adulation or bragging rights in the locker room.

    And if these oh-so-holy, upstanding Christian dads on this baseball team truly feel it’s wrong their sons have to play with a girl, then they should grow some honor and integrity and pull their boys from the team.

    At least the SSPX team stood by their beliefs, regardless how sexist those beliefs are. I can respect that, although if they were truly honorable they should remove themselves from the league rather than wait until they got this far along to make a big showy point of not playing the girl.

  100. IntoTheWest says:

    So sports are just about money?

    Sports are about physical fitness, health, discipline, teamwork, learning to set goals, etc.

    They’re not about the false god of money.

  101. Tell me about it.

  102. IntoTheWest says:

    Apparently, Barbara, this is called “male bonding”.

  103. deacon john m. bresnahan says:

    Will, I have no idea what girls do if they’re not playing sports on their own after school hours. I do see a few on tennis courts. Maybe it’s just our area. Look at places in your area where kids can set up their own “pick-up” games and see if it is the same as in my area. Once I noticed this, as I traveled around beyond our city, I noticed the same general phenomenon. Boys out there eager to play on their own. Girls rare to be seen. And Barbara, there is a big difference between the concept of keeping girls “sequestered” and the concept of a rational separation of the sexes at an age where raging young hormones can be an overpowering incentive to immoral behaviour.
    And there has never been a real debate on this issue because those who support radical mixing of the sexes usually argue by throwing vituperation around by brushing off thoughtful critiques as 18th century ignorance .
    And why is it Moslem customs and attitudes toward women even here in the U.S.are treated as beyond criticism in the media and their demands respected while those Christians–who see the same problems coming from the radical mixing of the sexes and try take those into consideration when setting policy– are insulted and derided.

  104. Isabel, there’s nothing at all wrong with mothers teaching CCD, so long as they know their stuff. As for the rest, well, that’s another thread.

  105. Joe Cleary says:

    I may not be a cannon lawyer Rommulus but I do not think I am quoting this out of context. I never said they were not real priests. Even a defrocked priest can validly but illicitly consecrate communion .

    I you want to hair split on the indelibly priestly character of Holy Orders and the Holy Father’s explicit and clear statement that ‘they (SSPX ministers including Bishops) do not legitimately exercise any ( BXVI would not have have used ANY this if this was not his meaning) ministry in the Church’ direction – fine but spare me the I don’t comprehend the issues put down.

  106. IntoTheWest says:

    So girls aren’t allowed to play baseball…? Seriously? What else aren’t they allowed to do?

    Track & Field?

    Frankly, Tyler, you’re so bitter over this I can only assume you can’t play anything. Seriously. No genuine athlete who understands the discipline and dedication it takes to perform competitively would be so demeaning to any athlete.

    What have you trained for and what have you won? What’s your marathon pace? What’s your ultra pace? When was your last tri? Which black diamond did you ski last? What championship teams have you been on?

  107. Hi Barbara,
    I guess I was under the assumption that these two schools didn’t regularly play each other and therefore weren’t in the same conference, and that they only met because of their respective advancement in the playoffs. I agree that if these two schools met three or four times every spring, that this would pose a real scheduling problem for their conference!

    As to their causing the girl embarrassment, that is of course terrible. However, whether or not this proved that the boys were disrespecting her is contingent on what it truly meant to disrespect her. Certainly, the boys on the team (at least according to the statement) considered forfeiting the game to be the only respectful thing to do. I would argue that, while reasonable people can disagree, they did the right thing, for many of the reasons that have been advanced on this thread, and–more relevantly–for the precise reasons they gave in their statement.



  108. Barbara B. says:

    Sheesh! Didn’t any of you boys play sand-lot? I did, and I wasn’t a tom-boy either. If the girl is good enough to be on the team, so what? It is interesting that any time that you don’t like what a woman writes, you call her a “feminist.” You don’t know anything of the sort. And then you proceed to bring religion into it. Seems as if sports is your true religion. Boys have plenty of opportunity for male-bonding. How about instead of a bunch of old guys reliving their “glory” days, they just took their sons out and spent some real male-bonding time? From what I’ve seen of a lot of male athletes, I wouldn’t want my son to engage in *that* sort of male-bonding.

  109. Barbara P says:

    You seem to be hardened by your anger so there is point in providing you a reasoned response. Again, I wish you peace.

  110. Joe Mc. Faul says:

    I have no obligation to respect someone’s views. Yes, the views expessesed are misogynist and fundamentalist. Someone objected above that”fundamentalist” only applies to Protestants. That works for me. The SSPX are protesting the authority of the Pope and the teachings of the Church. They have been invited to rejoin the Church and accept the same standing invitation extended to other protestants including Lutherans and Baptists.

    I hope they accept.

    Tennis? I presume they reject mixed doubles on religious grounds.

  111. Joe Mc. Faul says:

    Aren’t you the Tyler that chucked out an “ignorant fool” at someone you disagreed with above?

  112. Barbara P says:

    IntoTheWest – I thought we were done with that type of male bonding in this country but apparently not. I am in total agreement with everything you said. Thank you for your comments today. You helped me keep my blood pressure under control!

  113. Barbara P says:

    It seems that this blog post is becoming a contact sport :)

  114. IntoTheWest says:

    And the girls are whuppin’ the boys’ butts! ;)

  115. Ahhhh intothewedt,

    It has nothing to do with being bitter nor does it have to do with your canard of what “true athletes relish boy or girl” it has to do with the fact that nothing is sacred anymore. And that politics and feminism has to inuse everything including boys baseball.

    Sad really….

    Anyways go ahead continue arguing on your off point…point. I am not sure where you are going with your peaceful warrior true athlete but it’s entertaining.

  116. Barbara P says:

    Female bonding!

  117. Barbara please don’t tell men where, what or the how’s and appropriate quantities are allowed to relate to ones gender. Baseball has always been a sport of boys and men. It doesn’t need equal rights rhetoric it and boys need their space.

  118. Right isabel it’s not baseball….. it is about whether feminism and liberal egalitarianism must dogmatically infuse all aspects of life even the national pastime…..give it a rest

  119. Yes…ignorance of an issue is observable…….name calling Is a debate technique….it’s alo called jamming. When in doubt shout racist, sexist or omething similar

  120. Barbara,

    We should be clear about this…feminism does not have a ” say” or is the judge or referee on the appropriateness of the comradely and bonding rituals boys engage in towards manhood….in actuality the governor an guide should be Christian values and ethics foundations…

    I have a feeling your blood pressure would be better served if you were to take the fair game criticism of feminism and 24x7x365 woman’s issues….rather than manifest the cliche of the angry reactionary woman because men are openly criticizing these destructive ideologies and thir massive over reach

  121. I work in a high school and I have observed that the boys attend the girls’ games and that they are really happy to see the their teams do well. That is especially true of male athletes. Perhaps as someone commented, they respect other athletes. When students comment on a college sporting event, it is often on the outstanding women’s basketball team near us instead of the average (or worse) men’s team. As I am older, my first reaction is usually to think that they are asking me if I watched the men’s game. It will take time, but I think things are changing.

  122. pagansister says:

    Tyler, what has the fact that an all boys Catholic school team refusing to play another team in baseball because there is ONE girl on the team have anything to do with male or female bonding? I never played sports, and I had no problem with that bonding situation. I knew I was a girl and was raised to believe that my gender didn’t limit anything I wanted to do—even in the dark ages of the last century! Do I think men and women need to bond and identify with their own gender? Never thought about it really. Theology to reconcile what? A quick question: Does all that “need to bond with ones same gender” lead to the huge sin (in some eyes ) to a sexual relationship? Theology please. :o)

  123. People spend their money to patronize things they want to watch or see in the case of organized sports….you re not asking the right question…..the question is why does it take subsidization (your money point) to support these programs?

    The answer is not p.c. But we all know it nonetheless

  124. pagansister says:

    One more thing, Tyler. The habit in England and I guess some other countries, of sending their male (perhaps female) children off at the age of 6 or so, to all male (or female) schools have anything to do with same gender bonding? I think that was/is probably done by those with a bit of money, not the “common folks”. Does that mean the children of the common folks aren’t getting that bonding that is needed?

  125. pagansister says:

    Romulus: Some men are also for marriage and making babies—not all. When it works, yes, it is lovely. However it is not a requirement for either men or women to do that.

  126. pagansister says:

    “Boys need their space” Tyler
    OMG, I can’t believe you actually said that! :o)

  127. IntoTheWest,

    I don’t know if your aware of this…but probably 99% of baseball leagues across america probably agree with the SSPX, than the Mesa Athletic Director and the Utopian Lisa Maatz, Director of the world needs to be reordered in my feminist ideology referenced in the story….and I guess, apparently yourself. We also don’t know if the girl in question is an experiment in “Affirmitive Action in Action” or legitimately won her spot. I would put money on the former.

  128. Momof5girlsand2boys says:

    Tyler – well said!

    If adults want to engage in co-ed sports, more power to them. School-aged kids don’t need to and it isn’t appropriate. And before anyone asks, yeah, all my kids are competitive athletes.

  129. IntoTheWest

    1. I treat competitors differently based a number of characteristics based on reality. If one of the goals is to compete and win then I size up all my competitors, even using some of the “Differentiation” you mentioned. It is of special interest to note that you apparently equate “Competition & Athleticism” with a fairly standard liberal chinese menu of the usual “Approved Categories”…..Non-Discrimination etc.
    2. Funny when it comes to competition and athelitics…the rhetoric of “Non-Discrimination & Egalatarian principles” is about the farthest thing from my mind. I would posit that is also the farthest thing from most peoples minds that comopete….. In your mind, IntotheWest….it apparently is THE MOST IMPORTANT element of your competition. Do you actually take an inventory of the types of people you are competing against….Sexual Orientation etc? You said it not me. Strange.
    3. Question for you, I don’t understand anything about your “Respecting Bodies” comment? What does “Respecting Bodies or thinking about Respecting Bodies” have to do with organized competition or sport? Question: Do you think when Tim Lincecum sets up for his pitch that he thinks to himself….”Tim…however this pitch ends crossing the plate against my opponent…..he should know…and I should know…that together….. we really respect each others bodies”. I don’t know anybody who thinks this way and I wouldn’t want that rhetoric on any team I played on beyond…Rather, something like, “Okay guys…lets try not to hurt each other….break!” if this is what you mean even, and I doubt it, is about as far as I would want to go….
    4. Side Point: Are you aware that “Sexual Orientation” and “Skin Color” are not in any way equivalent. One has “Gene” associate with it that can be produced by Science….the other does not currently have a material origin…this as you know has lead to great arguments as to nature or nurture and but nonetheless whose practice is explicitly forbid by the Catholic Church. You will also note that the Church does not officially recognize a sexual compulsion as a legitimate definition for a person’s human identity. It only recognizes it as a test that some people have to go through in this life.
    5. IntotheWest….I did not say “Christians” originated “Organized Sports”. I meant that “Organized Sports” have been tempered & guided by the “Christian Tradition” in the past (What didn’t you watch Chariots of Fire?)…in which both competition and the values created use too use to be instrumental in a boys upbringing. Since society has gone Pagan….not so much anymore. Thats why you get athletes like, “Metta World Peace” or “Bling Bling Ocho Cinco”. Don’t straw man me.
    6. A. I did not say No to “All Female Teams”. You said that. However, I would argue they are not as popular. The reasons why are many and politically incorrect and discussion for a later time.
    6.B Apparently the SSPX, which will most likely reunite with Rome, believes otherwise on the issue of “Mixed Gender” in the proper context and setting I’m sure..so I’m not so sure of your theology there per se.
    7. IntotheWest….create for me the logic between being an active practicing “Athlete” whatever that quantitatively means in your mind, vs using reason and opinions to comment on this article…and then provide for me the reasoning on your implied disqualification or qualified credentials to speak once your done with the former.

  130. Barbara,

    Meditate on what “Reasoning” actually means in theory and practice. Then, get back to me. Peace be with you as well

  131. pagansister says:

    Tyler, ” secular-Culture -of-Death stuff” ? Who is spouting that these days? Guess the Church no longer believes in hell? Just wondered.

  132. I am absolutely in favor of same-sex sports teams. Same-sex activities certainly are about same-sex bonding, and both boys and girls need and ought to have such activities available to them. Nevertheless, if it is the desire of a league to be exclusively same-sex, that needs to be made clear up front. If it’s not the desire of the league to be same-sex, that needs to be made clear up front. In today’s world, the default position is not same-sex. So, since it was never communicated that the league was exclusive to boys, then the girls should be able to play, and the team that doesn’t want to play unless it’s all boys should have thought about that waaaaay before they got to this point. You don’t change the rules in the middle of the game, or in the middle of the tournament.

  133. Joe, men who are not real bishops — as you claim of the sspx bishops — cannot ordain real priests –which you somehow accept the sspx priests nevertheless are. Joe, you make no sense. It really is not worth debating people as confused as you.

  134. IntoTheWest

    1. People spending money typically denotes that are purchasing something they want to see and is a typical indicator of denoting human wants and needs.
    2. I am not talking about “Mammon” & “Profits” here I am talking about Economics.
    3. Straw Man & Red Herring Much?
    4. I concede its not politically correct, but Title 9 is about using tax payer dollars to subsidize something that nobody wants to see. If you want IntotheWest, we could head over to the Economics Department at your local University which has implemented Title 9 and they could teach you about the laws of supply and demand. You will find I think that these laws are “Real” and are not some “Teh Evul” conspiracy.
    5. Women who want to compete can organize and compete themselves. You know in the Great Depression IntoTheWest…poor kids use to somehow organize and play “Stickball” in the streets. Thats the great thing about sports…a round hunk of animal flesh and a hole to put it through is realitively cheap.
    6. Actually INTOTHEWEST…people want to pay to see the men’s sports. Thats just a fact. Women watch more men’s sports than women’s sports…thats a fact. I may want to see pigs fly….I could use public tax dollars to create a customized rocket uniquely set up to hold a pig…and make my dream come true for real…however it would be cheaper to acknowledge “Pigs were not Meant to Fly”. If people do not want to go see Big Time Women’s College Sporting Events…its not my problem…its reality.
    7. IntotheWest….if women make better endurance atheletes why do they not come close to men’s times in Marathons or Triatholons? Explain?
    8. Who you do it for is not my point. You will not drag me to your point. My point, which has not changed, is that feminism and political ideology has not place in boys baseball and that also that society needs to make room for organizations or institutions in which males and females can bond with each other in the absence of the opposite sex.
    9. They should grow some honor and integrity….but as you know, IntotheWest we currently live in a society in which you are crucified for holding these positions. Its not honor or integrity per se…but rather courage. Yes they are wussies
    10. Their beliefs are NOT SEXIST INTOTHEWEST…thats your ridiculous post-modern philosophy. I’m going to say it again…you don’t have to have a brain anymore in society to win arguments….just scream “Racisss…Sexisss and Homophobe….or HITLER” and you win.

    I concede none of your points. God Bless Though

  135. I do not see much in the way of “pick up” anything where I live. (Okay, the 8-year old neighbor boy shoots a lot of hoops in the driveway.) Mitch Albom is a sports writer for the Detroit Free Press. He has also written some best selling books. He wote a column once a while ago about what things were like when he was young compared to what things are now. He said when he was growing up, somewhere out east, all of the kids would be playing ball or at someone’s house and every mom in the neighborhood knew where they were. Today, few kids are out in the neighborhood and the kids are all in organized sports. The bottom line, for me, is that girls are no more forced to be in organized sports than boys. Our girls are both well out of high school and they had friends that were in sports and others that were not.

  136. Sorry Pagan…I’m a little slow. What is it that is wrong about that? Is it, you don’t think boys and men need places to bond or have fellowship with one another sans girls and women? Did I spell something wrong? Is their a double entendre I am missing or something?

  137. Pagan,

    1. I’m sorry, your equating male fellowship with implied underlying homosexual wants and needs? That is interesting
    2. You quote, “Have never thought about” or observed women or men engaging in same gender bonding, comrardery or fellowship activities. And if you haven’t what planet have you been on. If you have, which lets face it you have, you have never asked…”Why” You are an interesting specimen Pagan. Have you ever been observed in an vaccum? What were the results?
    3. Sports is only one way for males to engage in fellowship there are others, hunting…card games, going out with the boys…..but if feminism has its way they will all be infiltrated. For example, in a couple of weekend I will be going to a francisican monastery where there will be….”SHOCK!” ONLY MEN! NO WOMEN ALLOWED! FOR A RETREAT! A PRIEST FRIEND OF MINE WILL RUN IT! I know its wrong, what can we do about it.
    4. Pagan to my knowledge when both the private and public school system started….non of them were Co-Ed for most of their history. There are plenty of studies out there that show girls and boys do better in their studies when apart. Facts though are irrelevant to liberals with utopian ideas..

  138. Anne,

    On one hand I think that is great on the other hand I still think the observable fact is that most people are interested in watching men compete than woman. My question to you is “Why isn’t that good enough?” Why does that need to “Take time so it can be changed”?

    For what purpose?

  139. Pagan,
    1. Most of public education system is
    2. Georgetown University is (See Kathleen Sebelius Commencement News Recently)
    3. A large probably majority of Catholic Higher Ed

  140. pagansister says:

    Tyler, the saying is so “cliche” I just couldn’t believe you actually said it, that’s all. Nothing else meant. As for that bonding thing? Whatever gets it for some folks. However, in the case of the forfeiting of the game because of a single female on a baseball team—has nothing to do with “bonding” IMO. It is sending a message of inequality to those in the all male school.

  141. I love it when liberals utopian programs and political nonsense are used against them. LOL both stories are highly amusing

  142. pagansister says:

    Tyler, have a great time bonding in the monastery. Yes, I totally understand that no females are allowed. Dudes “need their space”. Seriously, it sounds like a great place time to get away from it all.
    No, I’m not equating “male bonding” with homosexuality—which would I suspect, be the ultimate in bonding, huh?
    So far as I know, I’ve always been on this planet—have you?
    No, no vacuum involved in my life–sorry to disappoint.
    Don’t worry—you guys can keep your sports.
    Good Evening.

  143. Or not: http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/mershon/070410

    And it would seem the Holy Father believes…not. We should find out for certain by the end of the month.

  144. Holy smoke, 143 comments on this subject! I think everyone – both sides – are making a mountain out of a molehill.

    I don’t have a strong opinion on this. Yes, I do think sports as a general rule should be played within genders. But sometimes you have limited number of players on a particular school team and if in this case they added a girl I can understand. There may not have been enough girls interested to form a girls team.

    Given the girl on the opposing team, I would never have forfeited. That’s really wussy.

  145. John Patterson says:

    That is just wrong. Another case of liberalism at its finest.

    Lord have mercy.

  146. Is the presence of one girl on one team that you might play once or twice in a season really that big of a threat to male bonding? If it is, these guys have zero chance of sustaining any sort of dating relationship or marriage, at least any of the hetero variety. The guys at this school that forfeit already have more “male time” than most men in the depths of seminary formation or in boot camp. If they’re really that rattled by the “intrusion” of one girl into their lives for (at most) nine innings, God help any wife, daughter or female co-worker they encounter in future years.

  147. LoneThinker says:

    The school has no more right to be identified as Catholic than a High Church Episcopal school. The managers have broken communion with the pope, whose Eucharist they claim is heretical and the Bishopric of Rome is Sede Vacante. There are 146 comments so far but as usual wonder why references to celibate bishops and clergy has to do with this topic. Discuss it on its merits as the action of a school toward this female playing on a dominantly boys’ baseball team. This issue has come up many times already in US schools. The US Government had to pass a law to give equal funding and time and space to female athletics at the college level. It is a gender equaloity issue, not necessarily a faith-religious issue as such.

  148. Barbara P says:

    Deacon are you advocating putting girls in burquas? Males need to learn to control their “raging hormones” no matter what age they are. As an aside are you the same commentator who posted a comment some months ago indicating that some men thought of women lectors and EMHC as “the priest’s harem”?

  149. Barbara P says:

    To clarify my comment was in response to Deacon Bresnahan

  150. IntoTheWest says:

    Then why don’t you make a few investigative phone calls and find out, Tyler. Easy enough to do. Sounds like you’d rather just assume and slander. You’re clearly full of hatred towards women, and I feel sorry for you for that.

  151. IntoTheWest says:

    You’re not making sense, especially when your rambling, garbled blather is compared to what I actually wrote.

    When I compete, I first and primarily attend to my own training. I strive to do the best I can be. I don’t size up my competitors and try to figure out the least amount of work I have to do to beat them. I want to do my best, I want to push myself, I want to challenge myself, and then I want to test myself through competition.

    I have a tremendous amount of respect for all my fellow competitors. Tremendous. Whether I win or lose, I respect them and admire them and enjoy their company. I love what I do, and I love doing it with other people who love doing it.

    It really is that simple.

    Yes, as I said twice now, Christian morality tempers my attitudes towards my fellow competitors. It does not dictate who I must exclude based on some bigoted or sexist notion that has nothing to do with Christ.

    That I am a competitive athlete means I know what’s going through the mind of other competitive athletes. People who are serious about their sport are not given to whinging and whining about how it’s not fair there’s a girl on the team, or a black person on the team, or a gay person on the team, or a bigger person on the team, wahwahwah. They’re focused on the competition, not some stupid notion of what girls, et al., can and cannot do.

  152. IntoTheWest says:

    So investing in sports for women isn’t worth it because it doesn’t generate money and large viewership? And then you say it’s not about money…

    You brought up viewership/money, so you can hardly accuse me of creating a strawman here. That’s your deal, not mine.

    Investing in sports for women is good for women. Young women involved in sports do better academically, are less likely to drop out, or get pregnant out of wedlock or get involved in drugs. Women who remain athletic through their lives are healthier and less likely to get certain cancers. That’s not worth anything to you? Of course not. They’re just women, just things to be used by men for breeding purposes.

    Women who want to compete do organize and arrange competitive events. And when women want to compete at university, they have every right to expect THEIR tuition dollars to be allocated in the same way men’s tuition dollars are allocated. Period.

    What you want is for men to be subsidized by tuition dollars but not to allow the same for women. That’s bigotry and sexism. Frankly, it’s hate.

    When I say women make better endurance athletes, I mean that their bodies respond to endurance tests more efficiently and suffer less breakdown. Yes, men have larger muscles and will run faster. But their bodies respond differently and recover differently. Also, not all men run faster than all women. I beat roughly more than 3/4 of the men running in any race I’m in – many of them less than half my age.

    You really, deeply, truly hate women, and that comes through every post — that you just hate women, you want them locked up for you to use only as you see fit and nothing else. That’s very, very troubling. Very.

  153. IntoTheWest says:

    So the only things worth doing are things other people want to pay to see?

    Boys’ sports take subsidization, too. You’re not making any sense. Title 9 only says that schools have to support girls’ teams as well as boys’ teams.

    But if boys want to go have their teams and pay out of their own pockets, fine. Let’s see how far that gets them…they’d have to build their own stadiums, pay their own insurance, buy their own equipment, etc.

    Are you saying they do that now? That no boys’ sports programs are subsidized by community or school money and it’s only the girls’ teams that are subsidized?

    What planet are you living on?

  154. IntoTheWest says:

    Wow. What did some woman do to you, Tyler, that you’re so full of hate towards all women? What girl beat you in what race that you can’t handle the fact that girls play sports and do it pretty darned well — better than you, I guess.

    All I can do now is laugh. You’re a broken record, spewing the usual misogynistic nonsense. Whatever.

  155. Manny thats just common sense which is beyond some on this blog. Girls play sports with girls and boys with boys. What is next, women on the Yankees?

  156. Bill Kelly says:

    I don’t agree with the school, but, I do support any organization that wants to set it’s own rules of conduce as long as they are not immoral or illegal. We don’t need “laws” to be passed so girls can play in this type of game. They are children and the lesson is, some people have a different way of looking at things. Grow up people, it is a “game”, not a life changing event.

  157. IntotheWest

    1. On the contrary I am addressing every point you bring up. Granted its a little slipshot but I have things to do.
    2. You continue to attack points I have never made. You do that well…in addition to the sports you say you practice which you have not been overly specific about…do you also engage in fencing and defeating invisible men?
    3. Sizing up competitors has nothing to do with performing “The Least Amount Of Work”. Like Chess, sizing up competitors has to do with planning and preparation in order to defeat your opponent in friendly competition. You know that. :)
    4. I’m glad you love what you do. What is your point or purpose to this statement because it has nothing to do with any of my points I have made at all. Is it a qualifying statement that because you “Love” what you do then it must be reasonable to the audience that the following points you make about what “You Think” Competition “REALLY MEANS” gives you more credentials?
    5. There it is again…”Bigoted” & “Sexist”. Honestly IntotheWest….there are other prisms in which to view the world, even when engaging in sports. (I wonder if Peyton Manning worries about Bigots, Racists & Homophobes as much as you do when he plays?….According to your Rhetoric, it should utterly infuse his spirit of competition. Interesting)

    Male fellowship and comradery has nothing to do with “Bigoted” & “Sexist”. In your bizarro world, those issues are obviously number 1, (Again I can picture a scenario in which you are competing…its not the race, its not the sport…its the large and diverse grouping of peoples that counts!……strange) that is obvious. Most conservative pundit commentators have noted that in a liberal’s world…the only thing that matters is “Race & Sex”. Everything else…is secondary. I wonder if Jesus would approve of such ridiculous one-track mind tunnel vision.
    6. Again, “Fairness”…if people “Aren’t” thinking about these things than why is there a girl playing in a sport for boys? Obviously some people are thinking about it. correct? They apparently think girls should be able to play team sports with boys and that if they don’t its not, “Fair”. Nevermind, there are other venues and ways to organize sports amongst the genders…everybody knows this…everybody can agree on this…its not hard to organize a league as such…why do it than? Because there ARE people who insert gender politics into every sphere of life. Your one of them. It is tiresome and it does not go unnoticed.

    Your Canard of whining, fairness, etc…..your words contradict your own points at every turn. There is more to sports than “Competition”. There is character, ethics, values…and yes… comradery & fellowship amongst men.

    Again, I reject all your points. Your top-down approach to try to control the “Appropriate” way to think about competition is interesting to watch. Newsflash though what “YOU” think entails “Competitive Competition” is not “The Standard” nor is it even close to what other….”GOOOD” people think. Granted there are elements of agreement. However what I think really fuels your ideology is not “Competitive Sports…but rather…Politics & Gender War nonsense that must be infused into everything in life….you cleverly mask this agenda with some pseudo-ethical high-road grandstanding about “What is the True Meaning of Sports…..however upon more careful observation what really fuels your reasoning is not “Competition” but rather some Egalatarian Liberal Political Doctrine…….it is all over your statements.

    Your view is not “The Gold Standard”. It is liberal pious talking points to make other like-minded people’s hearts a flutter.

  158. IntotheWest

    1. The purpose of investing money IntoTheWest is to make more money so the system of enterprise can sustain itself. If rational human beings were to believe otherwise the entire system we base our lives on would fail.
    2. It makes no sense to subsidize something nobody wants to purchase, especially if what that thing is, is not a critical need of human life.
    3. What I brought up IntoTheWest, is that the market does not appreciate women’s sports because they very obviously choose not to patronize it. I know this fact makes a lot of people angry…but so do a lot of natural phenomenon out of our control.
    4. Profits have little to do with my points and the “Almighty Dollar”. Again, I am talking about “Economics” you know…Supply & Demand.
    5. Lets get this nice and sparkling clear right now INTOTHEWEST…because I am critical of the agenda of Women’s Rights does NOT make me an implied mysognist got it? I know that is the typical obvious point of retreat, or favorite go to weapon for dim-witted people when being challenged on these topics. That offensive debate tactic may work on children but not on me……women can go play sports all they want. The general public does not appear to want to subsidize it by mere factual observation. The only reason they do is because militants like you are too quick to scream “Sexist, Racist, Homophobe” if somebody questions the wisdom of it….lets make that clear why it exists…that is the only reason…..politics.
    6. Its not just THEIR TUITION DOLLARS…its the PUBLICS TAX DOLLARS AS WELL. Don’t forget that…if public universities were self-sustaining there would be no money allocations from the states.
    7.No what I want is to keep gender politics out of every aspect of life….I see it getting way out of hand when it has invaded something as beloved to this country as baseball. It is getting WAY OUT OF HAND when boys who want to play baseball with only boys are not criticized in newspapers and called, “Backwards, 18th century thinkers…Racist, Sexist and Homophobe” by militants such as yourself. So THATS WHAT I WANT…got it?…good
    8. Okay IntotheWest…now that we have identified you as a woman. Great I’m glad you beat them. So when you run into men who take their marathon running seriously and train like you do….why do the best of men consistently beat the best of women….and by a lot… despite your biological observations? Do you refuse to admit that there are differences in the genders including biological? Everybody throughout human history has known this…is there some reason you choose to avoid & demure on this point?

    IntoThe West. I really really hate women? Is that it? Let’s get this straight what I “Dislike” is people like you who cannot take ANY criticism when it comes to “Gender Politics”. And indeed when that moment becomes neccessary from time to time….when this Criticism is given….you scream, “WOMAN HATER…WOMAN HATER!”. Because you can’t deal with the positions and ideals. This is why the Abortion industry is booming….any criticism of it by men is met with “Woman Hater, Woman Hater”!. Therefore men retreat. PURE EVIL.

    You are the reactionary….you are the troubled person. Lets get this very clear. If anybody hates a gender…I have to question your views on men because it appears you despise it when men even open their lips a centimeter to even criticize anything that has to do with a feminist agenda.

    Yet at the same time its okay for feminists to criticize men…interesting.

    INTOTHEWEST….leave the boys baseball teams alone it is one of the only remaining parts of society your side hasn’t totally corrupted.

    Good Luck

  159. Hey did you hear that guys…we get to keep Sports! Somebody phone the very important person quoted in the article known as Lisa Maatz, director of public policy at the American Association of University Women,

  160. So Lone Thinker does “Gender Equality” mean that boys who want to play boys baseball must accept girls on their teams? What a beautiful egalatarian world we live in!

  161. Thats not the point Kenneth and you know it. Men and Boys just like Women and Girls need their own spaces, institutions and rights of passage…especially boys. I know you live in an “exception IS THE RULE” universe but many of us do not.

    Leave baseball alone libs…give it a rest.

  162. I said it because its a cliche everybody understand Pagan. I could quote from Joseph Campbell’s Studious Sociological Book entitled, “Hero with a Thousand Faces”, about the Right of Male Passage taught in many university courses and was the book cited by George Lucas which inspired him to write “Star Wars” as well as George Tiller to write and direct “The Road Warrior” with Mel Gibson……

    In the piece Campbell goes through great pains to detail the historical observation of the rites of male passage and bonding from boyhood to malehooad…that he has identified in practices over all cultures at all times through recorded human history…and that it is universal trait among the human species. But why do this?

    I know now..to avoiding the sneering of liberal minded folks who believe they have a monopoly and thought and reason.

    Thanks Pagan.

  163. IntoTheWest,

    I don’t have to make investigative phone calls. I can just “Observe” those leagues and do short calculations in my head. Those thoughts may include..”Hmmm once again no women in this baseball league…strange…this league too…whats going on?”

    I reject your attempt to categorize me Intothewest. Lets call it what it is…everybody knows this trick by now. When arguing with a liberal their fall back position is to “Call people names” in order to “Shut them Up”. If I am getting too uppity for you IntoTheWest just say so.

    Lord knows that “Feminism” and the “Militant Women’s Rights Movements” are so noble, have created no evil, are so holy and righteous that anybody….AND ESPECIALLY MEN RIGHT INTOTHEWEST question it…..just ONE TINY BIT….JUST ONE INKLING than they are WOMAN HATERS..RACISTS…AND NAZIS.

    And that goes Double for anybody criticizing abortion…WOMAN HATERS!

    Get over yourself and leave boys baseball alone and quit judging and putting yourself in a position to allocate what men need and want by destroying their institutions that they use to develop fellowship and comradery amongst themselves.

    Just stop it..

  164. Bill,

    Your right in that its a game, your wrong in that its not a “Life Changing Event”. The issue at hand is do you think we can leave “Baseball Alone?” or does even that institution require feminist gender politics. See when something as trivial…yet paradoxically precious as baseball is infilitrated by this relentless nonsense…then you can see that this kind of militant philosophy has over-reached and one can make an argument if it has over-reached here…where-else has it over-reached.

    The abortion industry for example is all gender politics…against abortion “Woman Hater..Racist..Sexist…Homophobe”.

    So though I agree with some of your statements I disagree in your approach that because its a game its not a big deal….your wrong here.

  165. My point Intothewest…is that conventional wisdom is that most people…this includes women…will patronize organize men’s sports before women’s sports. That is my point.

    I live on earth

  166. IntotheWest,

    One more point that I think is worth noting. Now that you have identified as a “Woman” I wasn’t sure before I think its worth noting pointing out comments you made that I can guarantee no man thinks about when he engages in competitive sport. For example, you made the comment that when you engage in competition that its important for competitors to “Respect their Bodies”.

    This is my point exactly no man or boy I know that I grew up with talks this way in organized sports or in fellowship among men and boys. Women do….and thats okay but not men. THIS IS MY POINT EXACTLY. It should be OKAY that men do not think or act the same way as women and that men and boys have their own institutions, rituals and organizations that celebrate those differences.

    The invasion of feminism or feminine values into those institutions are confusing and out of context. Your point about “Respecting Bodies” is why I so disagree with all your points. Boys want to play baseball, they want fellowship among boys and men….they do not want an inter-inning motivational speech that includes….”Now respect your bodies and your competitors bodies or any metaphor, variant, or thought that eminates from the same source”. WHY? BECAUSE….MEN….AND…WOMEN…ARE…DIFFERENT…AND..THAT…SHOULD..BE…ENCOURAGED….AND…CELEBRATED.

  167. IntoTheWest says:

    Sure. You can just “observe” and come to your own conclusions about other people’s motivations all you like. And God can judge that behavior all He likes, too. Good luck with that.

    You’re accusing _me_ of categorizing _you_? You have got to be kidding. Hear that sound? That’s universal laughter raining down from the stars, boy.

    Wha…?? How did abortion come into this?

    Me get over myself? LOL! Me quit telling boys what to do? ~snort~

  168. IntoTheWest says:

    So you take a utilitarian view of the human person. We only invest in athletics in order to make money. Good to know where you stand. That position, however, is not in keeping with Catholic teaching, so your views don’t align with the Church’s views of the human person. We Catholics see human beings as more than their material contributions to the State.

    My “side”? What side is that?

    Don’t bother to answer. I’m not reading your hate-filled, crazy, lunatic rambling any more.

  169. Richard M says:

    The SSPX is not sedevacantist. You may be thinking of the Society of St Pius V, which was ejected from the SSPX over just this issue.

  170. IntoTheWest says:

    So what? What kind of materialistic, utilitarian attitude is that?

    Hey, people patronize porn and the sex trade plenty — men, AAMOF — does that make it appropriate — I mean, economics is on their side — the porn/sex industry generates billions of dollars, therefore it must be good.

    How about drugs? Billions of dollars. Billions. Therefore drugs are good.

    Who thinks like this? What’s wrong with you?

  171. I don’t need scientific empirical analysis done to try my conclusions. If I did I would not be able perform simple every day tasks…like trusting the mail carrier…wondering whether the door will open…or trusting everyone will follow the traffic laws so I can get to work. I hope God doesn’t judge me for these apparent heresy of “Educated Guesses” if so…I’m in deep..deeep trouble.

    No I don’t hear that sound….I heard the sound of somebody who cannot stand it when somebody challenges her feminist ideology especially if that somebody is a man.


  172. Hey IntoTheWest,

    First its “Racist, Sexist, Homophobe” and now its “Illeterate, Mentally Ill, Whacked, Nuts & Bonkers”…

    1. The first thing I can observe from these attempts to try and label me and dismiss me is that given all your deep philosophical preachiness/philosophical rhetoric on “The True Meaning of Sportsmanship”…is that given these tactics your are engaging in………All I can say is……..How very “Unsporting” of you.
    2. I also know that others in society are getting very tired of being called these names by people like you when they disagree with your ideology.

    Good Luck IntoTheWest…May your Egalitarian Militancy penetrate every possible serious and even remotely small and harmless institution on planet earth from Fishing Clubs…to TreeHouses…to MilkandCookie Time…to Major League Baseball. Leave no stone unturned!

  173. IntoTheWest says:

    Yeah, but did you and your boyfriends compete nationally? When I say respect our bodies, it means we train hard, we fuel our bodies appropriately, we don’t trash our bodies with garbage food and cigarettes and drugs. Are you saying male athletes don’t do this — the ones who aren’t taking steroids, anyway?

    The male athletes I know (and I’m married to an ex-football player) absolutely respect their bodies.

    So, again, since you know all this stuff about competitive athletics, what do you play? What team are you on? What sport are you involved in? How do you train before competition?

    Riiiiigggghhht….so long, cupcake…

  174. pagansister says:

    Bit sarcastic there, Tyler. You seem to find that necessary in your posts. Bye.

  175. IntoTheWest…

    My point still stands…nothing changed….men don’t congregate together and talk about “Respecting One Another’s Bodies”…they say things like “Lets Pound it Out and Work Hard”. They shouldn’t have to absorb your rhetoric into their own cultural lexicon. Because they should have their own space and traditions to do so that doesn’t have to include women. Just like women can and VERY MUCH DO have theirs.

    Its a cultural gender IntoTheWest….I know you don’t understand this because you believe there is no room in society for places where men can be allowed to have fellowship and rituals among men exclusively.

    Once again, I wish you well on your militant agenda to penetrate all and every institution with some kind of Feminist Egalitarian Dogma. May the 6th Grade All-Boys Kick Ball team beware…..IntoTheWest is coming to break up your little game and “Learn you Good” about the facts of life.

  176. IntoTheWest…

    My point still stands…nothing has changed….men don’t congregate together and talk about “Respecting One Another’s Bodies”…they say things like “Lets Pound it Out and Work Hard”. They shouldn’t have to absorb your rhetoric into their own cultural lexicon. Because they should have their own space and traditions to do so that doesn’t have to include women. Just like women can and VERY MUCH DO have theirs.

    Its a cultural gender IntoTheWest….I know you don’t understand this because you believe there is no room in society for places where men can be allowed to have fellowship and rituals among men exclusively.

    Once again, I wish you well on your militant agenda to penetrate all and every institution with some kind of Feminist Egalitarian Dogma. May the 6th Grade All-Boys Kick Ball team beware…..IntoTheWest is coming to break up your little game and “Learn you Good” about the facts of life.

    Leave no stone unturned to support the great cause!

  177. Richard M says:

    But this story will raise none of the same hackles, apparently.

  178. Richard M says:

    I was also frustrated by the “fundamentalist” label. But too often it’s the only adjective in the toolbox for many reporters when confronted with a very conservative or traditional religious group.

  179. I find this funny – my daughter started playing first base on an almost all catholic school eight grade boys team (Ginny was the one exception). She also hit ninth, not because she couldn’t hit, but because she had a great eye and walked a lot. The only comment I heard form another coach was why can’t we have her. She didn’t pal;y softball because she liked baseball better. There is no invasion of feminism or any ism in this story, unless it is “bacwardism”. Sports is about competing with the best you can compete with. To turn this story into anything other than a commentary on a s et of people who seem to not have a grasp of sports and children playing is absurd.

  180. Richard M says:

    Hello Melody,

    The Vatican – or the Pope and the relevant Curial bodies (such as the CDF) by all accounts do not consider the SSPX to be in schism.

    The confusion happens because Pope John Paul II called it a “schismatic act” when he issued excommunications when Archbishop Lefebvre consecrated the four current bishops of the Society without papal authorization. Generally, the Vatican has been content to differentiate from the act and the state of the Society itself, which is canonically irregular. The SSPX bishops and priests are completely valid bishops and priests of the Catholic Church; but they have no faculties to exercise the ministries associated with those offices.

    So what label should we use? It’s not accurate to say they are not Catholic. But it’s also true that they have a problematic status within the Church. If I were the reporter I might have gone with “irregular Catholic.” But I can at least understand the confusion.

  181. friscoeddie says:

    180 comments and the bishops think the ‘war on women’ is a winner.????? Their whine about ‘Religious liberty’ is another ‘going no where’ initiative.
    USCCB needs new help…..

  182. Tyler — Your last three sentences sum it all up rather well. I heartily agree. It indeed is “backwardism” (I love that word to describe this whole issue!).

  183. Sorry — not Tyler — meant Andy — my apologies to both.

  184. Frisco,

    Your not saying it right…its pronounced “The HWAAARRR! on WOMYNNN!”. Can’t you hear the ominous music being played in the background?

    Watch the lemmings come to the sound of the cannons! Forward!

  185. Andy does this also include the following people being absurd.

    1. The originating “Journalist” that started the he/she wrote with……”A fundamentalist Arizona Catholic high school…”
    2. The athletic director at Mesa Preparatory Academy who said…, “I respect their views, but it’s a bit out of the 18th century.” In other words….”I don’t respect their views because their backwards, sexist, racist” insert some other labeling gimmick of the left.
    3. And Finally…the all important final person quoted on whether boys can play a harmless game of baseball with other boys without being persecuted in the mainstream media by being called backward fundamentalists and other name-calling……”Lisa Maatz, director of public policy at the American Association of University Women, told AP that this was an example of why laws which enforce gender equality in education programs, including sports, are necessary”………
    Hmmmmmmmm boys plaing baseball with other boys requires a statement from somebody who has organized an association in education along gender lines…even though they want in this instance basedball to be co-ed…..has suggested that the great injustice of allowing boys to play baseball exclusively with other boys makes it quote, “NECESSARY” to pass laws and send people to re-education Ohhh I’m sorry “EDUCATION PROGRAMS” her quote to enfore…QUOTE “GENDER EQUALITY”.

    Hopefully Andy you including them.

  186. Actually IntoTheWest,

    I’m much more of a Deontologist than a Utilitarian. No what I am talking about is simple observance for what people want. In the area of “Competitive Sports” for the most part it is not a “Primary Need of Life” however in reading the history of sports it has always been utilized to create a friendly for men and boys to get rid of their natural aggression in a positive way. Indeed organized competitive sports is simulated warefare…..not my words.

    Your Side,…you know the Liberal Egalitarian Side? The one in which you think its find to bring gender politics into “Baseball” and think thats normal?

    I answered…..I’m picking up your incredible “Sportsmanship Again”….”Hate-Filled, Crazy….Lunatic…Rambling”. By now I am sure we can all take your moving personal philosophy about what Competitors and Atheletes “Really Do” to heart.

  187. IntoTheWest

    All True…people do patronize things that are not good for them. We even subsidize things like “Abortion” that has a particularly large feminist lobby to ensure it maintains itself.

    Once again you straw man me….I didn’t say necessarily that it was a “Good” but an “Observable Fact”.

    Unlike you, IntoTheWest, I do not equate the subsidization of woman’s sports as the “Greatest & Possibly Highest Good There Is In The World” and that of things that do need to be subsidized….this one could probably be subjected to the law of economics without the world coming to an end. Because the fact that the greater public….and I will stress this includes WOMEN….do not patronize women’s sports the way they do men’s sports…..I do not think the world will come to an end.

    It is possible you do though. That being said…..in regards to who thinks like this…the question is better suited for yourself.

    No stone unturned INtoTheWest….Nothing is sacred! :)

  188. IntoTheWest,

    Where are you going with this absurd freudian analysis. Did you not read the article. Boys baseball team refuses to play a team with a girl on it and they get called,
    1. “Fundamentalist”
    2. “18th Century Backwards”
    3. And a woman from some “University Organization of Women” calls for passing more “Gender Equality Laws”

    My point is that there needs to be space in the public square for boys to bond and have fellowship with boys without being castigated as “Little Hitlers” by the Mainstream Media…and apparently people like you.

    And for that you think I’m out of line? That I am “Misogynistic”?

    Hey…secret for you IntotheWest…..It should be okay in society to criticize “Feminism” and Over-Reaching Women’s Rights Organizations…..EVEN IF….your a man without being called the names and accusations your throwing at me.

    Try engaging the points instead of calling names IntoTheWest…..that way, you will be taken a little more seriously.

    K….Good. Thanks. :)

  189. Sorry :)

  190. Midwestlady says:

    190 comments? For real? I don’t have a problem with this. Playing baseball with girls on the team sets a precedent. This same school refused to play touch football with girls on another team just months ago. Sorry, but teenaged boys shouldn’t be tackling teenaged girls. As I said, I have no problems with this ruling of theirs.

    [And I need to tell you, I'm a scientist and I DO have problems with the treatment of women in science on general principle. But I don't have problems with this refusal to play sports with girls.]

  191. pagansister says:

    Tyler, the public school system is spouting the culture of death? They don’t do religion in PUBLIC schools, so that is a off key statement. I also see no reason for Ms. Sebelius not to speak at Georgetown University’s commencement. Her speech is going to do no harm. Oh, and if any of the graduates are pregnant? I doubt they will run out and have an abortion! And as for the possibility that Catholic higher education is getting with the real world? Good.

  192. pagansister says:

    Women on the Yankee team? Sounds like a plan. :o)

  193. pagansister says:

    Andy—-great story about your daughter. Talent is talent. Thanks for sharing it.

  194. Tyler
    To respond to your rather snarky question – I include everyone who has made an issue out of this – including the vast majority of commenters. By the way I don’t respect the views of the team refusing to play. Not that it is anti-feminist or anything, but that it does reflect a rather puritanical viewpoint that I would have hoped we moved beyond., and it does deprive the boys of the opportunity to win a state championship, something that happens rarely. I also see it as a group of people making a statement that was designed to call attention to their beliefs. As far as persecution goes, how does the girl and her team feel. I see in your comments that it is the boys only team that was discriminated against – but actually it was both teams. I think that Lisa Maltz is wrong, I don;t see this as a title what ever issue. Expressing an opinion that you don’t like – the AD of Mesa Prepatory does not make it a gimmick of the left.

  195. Pagan,

    Uhhh o.k. Than.

  196. This rule is probably in place because of sports like football and wrestling. Let me just say that young women have made enormous strides, they are great athletes and competitors. My neighbors grand daughter could out swim me any day of the week. Speaking for myself, I was a wrestler, and I would not have wanted to wrestle a girl. The positions one gets into, the places you have to grab. I have watched young boys on youtube, try to do it, and they are almost always very uncomfortable about it. One one hand you teach young boys, not to be violent and agressive towards young women, and then you say, go wrestle her. No. Its sending a conflicting message. And by the way, I just heard a young boy was banned from his New Jersey field hockey team, because he was so dominant playing against the girls. I for one enjoyed sports as a time to get together and hang out with the guys. We could be as crude and wild as we wanted, and get it out of our systems. Let the guys have some space for themselves for crying out loud. Girls have plenty of options if they want to play sports. I admire the school for standing its ground.

  197. I’ve been trawling through these comments and by now I am just laughing.

  198. IntoTheWest says:

    Dude, you’ve created the strawman. You. And then when you get called on it, you claim I created it. Scroll up. Read. You are the one who has repeatedly claimed that girls’ sports shouldn’t be subsidized by tuition or tax dollars because they’re less economically rewarding than boys’ sports. You said that. Many times.

    And now you’re saying it’s my strawman. There are two obvious conclusions here — no, three — you’re insane, you’re on drugs, or both.

    Yes. I agree. Women’s sports don’t draw the same crowds men’s sports do, although they’re drawing more viewership at all levels than they used to. And I repeat — the value in subsidizing women’s sports isn’t only economic. But then I see the human person as something more than a things that generates cash. You don’t.

    But then, I’m Catholic and you’re clearly not. So it’s obviously a theological/philosophical difference.

  199. IntoTheWest says:

    Wrong yet again, Tyler. I’m not a Liberal Egalitarian anything.

    You are a deeply, deeply mentally ill person, and that you represent this ultra traditional Catholicism is pretty telling. I think we all see the sort of males who go to these schools now. We see what you are. Thank you for showing us.

  200. Richard M. Sawicki says:

    Oh but many of them do!

    Just look up what they think of Pius XII’s liturgical reforms in the mid-1950′s, specifically the restoration of the Easter Vigil, the permission for evening Mass, and the lessening of the Eucharistic fast.

    Gaudete in Domino Semper!

  201. I will make this simple.

    Scene: Six tiny children are eating lunch together in a schoolyard. A seventh child walks up and asks if they can join. The six children say No.

    All human beings have a right to be included. By saying no, the seventh child is being neglected, rejected, and hurt. There is no excuse for this.

    There is -no excuse for this-.

    There will -never be an excuse for this-.

    End of story, goodbye.

Leave a Comment