Is The Future Of Catholicism Protestantism? I Hope So

The #protfuture conversation continues. First Things editor R.R. Reno has a reflection on it, as a Catholic and also one of the sponsors of the #protfuture event. He notes that while intra-Protestant discussions of the future of Protestantism inevitable involve some discussion of Catholicism, he doesn’t see intra-Catholic discussion about the future of Catholicism involving discussion of Protestantism.

To my dismay and sadness, a lot of Protestants on the internet see me as anti-Protestant, so I may surprise them by saying that if Reno is right, then I would view that as a disaster. The Spirit moves outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church, and we should and indeed must learn from our brothers and sisters in Christ who do not profess the Catholic faith. During the #protfuture event, one of the panelists said–in essence, I’m paraphrasing–that Protestants shouldn’t really bother with unity with the Catholic Church, because the Church is so big, “they don’t need us”, and they already have enough on their plate with their own Catholic issues to bother with us. I definitely think that’s a sense we see in a lot of the day-to-day life of the Church–but I would view that as a sin, the sin of self-regard and self-preoccupation. And so let me clearly affirm, discussions on the future of Catholicism must include discussion of Protestantism. (And not just to reject it out of hand, of course.)

With that in mind, let me offer up a couple more stray, inchoate thoughts.

Catholicism’s Protestant future is already in its past. I am referring, of course, to the Second Vatican Council. The Rad Trads have a point: consciously or not, Vatican II was a Protestantizing of Catholicism. Beyond the fact that Vatican II was the starting gun of the Church’s launching into the ecumenical endeavor, the doctrinal emphasis of Vatican II was, so to speak, a ressourcement of Catholicism drawing, among other sources, from the best of Protestantism. Worship in the vernacular. The re-emphasizing of the “meal” dimension of the Mass and, perhaps, a de-emphasis on the sacrificial dimension of the Mass. An affirmation of the centrality of Scripture in the life of the Church. A “re-kerygmatisation” of the theological life of the Church. An emphasis on the necessity of grace and Christ in the salvation story. A re-emphasizing on the dimension of the Church as the People of God, the people of the baptized.

The incipit of this section is obviously a bit trolly. Vatican II is in the Church’s past, but also, obviously, in the Church’s present and its future. Most debates within Catholicism today are really debates about the interpretation of Vatican II, and Vatican II was, very much, a Protestantization of Catholicism. This is something Catholics will never say in polite company because it sounds like they’re validating the anti-Vatican II story about the Council, but let me say as a “Vatican II Catholic”–it’s true! Vatican II made Catholicism more Protestant, and we can see that it is good. Maybe not an unalloyed good–I think that, quite involuntarily, many liturgical choices added up to a dramatic pastoral weakening of the doctrine of the Real Presence–but on the whole, a great and necessary good.

Let me say it: Protestant Catholicism is true Catholicism. It’s a common dig against Protestants to say that they define themselves as being “anti-” (my friend Sam Rocha‘s line: “Protestants protest at being called Protestants”), but in many ways so did Counter-Reformation Catholicism. Protestants think salvation is all about faith and not good works? Then it must be all about good works! Protestants think the Eucharist is a meal and not a sacrifice? Then it must be only a sacrifice! Protestants don’t like Mary-talk? Let’s never stop talking about Mary. This is a caricature, of course.

As I’ve written before, Catholics must affirm salvation by faith alone. Yes, it is a faith that is not mere doctrinal assent, it is a faith that is the indwelling of Jesus Christ by the Spirit which transforms us–the sanctifying grace that Trent so rightly talks about–and equips us for good works, but it is a salvation by sheer grace, through Christ alone.

Catholics cannot affirm Sola Scriptura as a doctrine, but we must also move beyond this sense we se often see of Catholic Tradition as this thing that just sits on top of the Bible. Instead, Scripture is the heart of Tradition, in the Biblical sense, the heart of Tradition which gives it life, a Tradition which itself is the “life of the Spirit within the Church”, which is the body of Christ.

Catholics must rediscover and continue to rediscover the wonderful doctrine of the priesthood of all believers. Adam was the first High Priest, tasked with liturgically divinizing the world, and we are in the priesthood of the New Adam, working in the vineyard of the Lord to usher in the New Creation that has broken through on Easter morning.

Vatican II isn’t dead. It isn’t even past. It’s the future–our Protestant future.

Catholicism’s Protestant future is visible in the Global South. Not to make a dig at Reno, but the idea that Protestantism doesn’t feature in discussions about the future of Catholicism is very West-centric. In the Global South, the reality of Catholicism is the astonishing growth of Protestant Pentecostalism (a challenge, I’m sure, also for traditional Reformational Protestants). As über-chronicler of Catholicism John L. Allen Jr notes, the future of Catholicism is the Global South. Already two thirds of Catholics live in the Global South and if current trends continue, this proportion will only increase. If you talk to bishops in the South about the future of Catholicism, Protestantism is quite on their minds. But it is not only an adversarial relationship (Allen tells the story of asking a bishop in Latin America about his relationship with Pentecostals, and the bishop says: “You want to know about my relationship with Pentecostals? Come.” and the bishop takes Allen outside his office and points to a very large billboard blaring: “Next Sunday’s Sermon: The Great Sins of the Catholic Church”. (Note: this is also a good idea for a theme for a Catholic homily. #ecumenism)), because a great many of the Global South’s great many Catholics are Charismatic Catholics, that is to say Catholics who have incorporated Pentecostal practices, and also a significant amount of theology, and the Charismatic Renewal is one of the fastest growing movements within the Church. You could be forgiven for thinking that, in that sense, and for good and for ill, the future of Catholicism is inevitably Protestant.

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  • http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/ Manny

    You say a lot of interesting things here, most of which I agree with, but I have to disagree that Vatican II is a “Protestantization of Catholicism.” It changed Catholicism, but I don’t think it was as a Prostantization. Vatican II made Catholicism more accessible to people, which perhaps runs parallel to some Protestant practices, but as far as I can see it’s still Catholicism and very definitely not Protestantism. It’s still liturgical and still sacrimental, and the Presence of Christ is still in the Eucharest. I don’t see how just saying mass in the vernacular, as was mass in ancient times, makes it Protestant.

    • http://pegobry.tumblr.com/ Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry

      The good things in Protestantism are also good things from within the life of the Church, but I think it’s a-historical to think that the example of Protestantism didn’t play a part in how Vatican II played out.

      • http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/ Manny

        I’m sure you know more on it than I do. I’m no expert. I agree the Church made changes that would attract Protestants. But those changes strike me as cosmetic. I’m still trying to come up with substantive changes that the Church made that would make it more Protestant. In addition to what I mentioned before, we still revere the saints and the Blessed Virgin, we are still structured in a hierarchal diocese, and we still adhere to the Magisterium. What am I missing that was substantively changed?

        • http://pegobry.tumblr.com/ Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry

          Well, you’re certainly right about the parts that haven’t changed.

    • http://platytera.blogspot.com Christian LeBlanc

      Yes. I lived a pre Vatican 2 childhood; boy was V2 a bunch of change! J23 didn’t decide the Church needed to be more Protestant. He intended for the Church to re-energize the good things within herself that had long lain fallow, because they were *seen* as “Protestant.”

    • AugustineThomas

      That’s the one thing he’s right about. Vatican II was fine in and of itself, but there were a lot of would-be-heretics waiting to pervert its meaning and they have succeeded in filling the Church with heresy, which is a very Protestant thing to do.

    • Episteme

      I think that another way to put what the author is saying, in a way that many of us with agree with more, is that Vatican II is a *Reformation* of the Church, not that same Reformation as five centuries ago that led to such schism, but one identifiable on some of the same original arguments of, for example, bringing the laity and the vernacular more into liturgical life.

      • http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/ Manny

        He specifically said “protestanization.”

        • Episteme

          I’m aware of that, but he also broached the historical issue of “Protestants protest at being called Protestants,” their acceptance of that term being a latter development historically. While we use the word in one way today, it was used in different ways (with different levels of acceptance even by those who now call themselves Protestants) in the first century or two following whatever official start one would give to the events known as the ‘Protestant Reformation.’

  • http://outsidetheautisticasylum.blogspot.com/ Theodore Seeber

    “Maybe not an unalloyed good–I think that, quite involuntarily, many liturgical choices added up to a dramatic pastoral weakening of the doctrine of the Real Presence–but on the whole, a great and necessary good.”

    The weakening of the doctrine of the Real Presence is not that big of an issue. Practice the movements enough, and the miracle will happen for you too.

    What I worry about is the weakening of the doctrine of Original Sin. I grew up in the Charismatic Renewal, and failed to learn this doctrine until late in life (I also failed to learn the rosary as well as I should have until late in life; for my first 25 years on the planet, I learned my theology from praise music, and I still think of many foundational dogmas as lyrics to songs; the tune tied forever to the dogma for me).

    Charismatics are pastorally inclined to the brink of heresy. Right and wrong, sin and forgiveness, are missing from their theology- as is confession, quite often. After all, if nobody can commit a mortal sin, of what use is the confessional?

    • http://pegobry.tumblr.com/ Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry

      I think if you think the weakening of the doctrine of the Real Presence is not that big of an issue there is something somewhere you have really missed. I recommend prayer and the sacraments.

      • http://outsidetheautisticasylum.blogspot.com/ Theodore Seeber

        Which is exactly my point. Prayer and frequent communion will teach the doctrine of the Real Presence eventually. Even in a charismatic parish, by the hundredth rendition of “One Bread One Body” as one goes up for communion, it will sink in.

        Original Sin, though, I don’t know any happy Charismatic songs that teach that. Or Forgiveness. It took a parody artist to finally give me a song about Confession:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sk_hbgm7Z1k

        • Joejoe

          I get what you’re saying but I think it is a major problem if the Real Presence is treated as an eventuality rather than a starting point.

          If we don’t emphasize the Real Presence and the fact that one must be properly disposed to receive the Lord, we tacitly approve the unworthy reception of Holy Communion and the sacrilege of the Body of Christ.

          I know that the strength that comes from the Eucharist is real and that on occasion I have stopped in my tracks on the way to sinning after realizing that I would have to deny myself Communion if I went forward. More people could certainly use such a wake-up call. Today the army of EMEs and reception in the hand have taken the awe out of the Most Holy Sacrament of the Altar and become far more meal than sacrifice.

          There are many places within Catholicism where I see that protestantization could be acceptable, if not desirable. Treatment of the Eucharist is certainly the direct opposite.

          • http://outsidetheautisticasylum.blogspot.com/ Theodore Seeber

            Without knowledge of the existence of sin, why would you deny yourself the Real Presence?

            After all, Nancy Pelosi doesn’t.

  • JoseProvi

    I have a real hard time with this. Especially because I’m from the so-called global south. It is definitely true that Vatican II protestansized the Church, to the point that in the mind of many Catholics we’re just another denomination and going to a Lutheran or Episcopal church is basically the same. Counter-Reformation Catholicism was too narrow sometimes but it saw the Church as pillar of truth and as the Church Christ founded. It was a no apology for who we are church. Today we’re constantly on the defensive trying to sound and be more like generic Protestantism. We are like a peasent embarrassed of our colorful dress and customs trying to blend in in the big city. In fact in the US that’s what we’ve done. Mary was hidden away, the blessed sacrament ignored and the saints forgotten. Now we see a resurgence among many young Catholics of a robust Catholic identity reminiscent of Tridentine piety with a mix of evangelical fervor common to many Evangelical protestant denominations. That to me would be good. A strong Catholic identity with a powerful evangelical fervor. But a lot of this is happening in spite of the disasters of Vatican II. To me the purpose of the council was to spread fervor and commission the laity in the task of evangelization, not abandon Catholic tradition and lower us to just another denomination. Unfortunately many council fathers wanted a weaker more doubtful church instead of the strong self confidence Church of Trent. The truth is somewhere in the middle. Neither excessive triumphalism nor fake meekness.

    • http://pegobry.tumblr.com/ Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry

      Amen to the Chruch is the pillar and foundation of Truth; amen to not hiding our light under a bushel basket; amen, certainly, to reading the Vatican II Council in the light of all the other councils and of all the Sacred Tradition of the Church, as Pope Benedict did; amen to great liturgy and evangelical fervor.

      But Catholicism is not an identity. It is an encounter with the Living God, who reveals us to ourselves as sinners in need of grace even as this grace sanctifies us. The Church is not a party or a nation. And it is not relativism to acknowledge that there are elements of truth and sanctification to be found outside the visible boundaries of the Church.

      • James Stagg

        May I disagree, heartily. Catholicism is an identity, one that supersedes any other (race, nationality, “party”). Once that is understood, whatever is outside the Church is irrelevant to the task and destination of the Catholic person and his community.

        You fudge when you say “elements” of this and that can be found outside the Church. Elements can be found in rocks, as well; that make them neither prophetic nor good examples for Catholics to follow.

        R.R. Reno was completely correct in his critique. If Protestants want to move forward, let them swim the Tiber……just as Hahn and so many others have demonstrated to good effect….and good example.

        Peace be with you.

        • http://pegobry.tumblr.com/ Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry

          Taken too far, the construal of Catholicism as an identity is idolatry. Our fundamental identity must be about Jesus Christ and His saving work on the Cross, not about smells and bells (important though they are!). The Church’s own forgetting of this is what led to the disaster of the Protestant Reformation.

          I would encourage you to meditate on the sins of pride and idolatry, to meditate on the New Testaments, and to pray before the Blessed Sacrament.

          • James Stagg

            No, I still disagree. Catholic identity is so strong it caused the martyrs of the Church. You divert attention from the fact that the Sacraments, especially the Eucharist, are the center of Catholicism.

            And please do not propose treatments for me to arrive at your misguided opinion. Instead you might investigate the meaning of “scandal”, “arrogance”, “perfidy” and “calumniation”. In addition to obviously knowing little about the Catholic Church, you actually know nothing about me.

          • http://pegobry.tumblr.com/ Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry

            I missed the part of Ignatius of Antioch’s letter where he talks about Catholic identity. Probably means he was a bad Catholic.

            I will pray for you.

          • AugustineThomas

            God save your soul from heresy! (It always leads to apostasy.)

    • AugustineThomas

      The Church of the Counter-Reformation was flourishing. The more Protestant we’ve become, the more the pews have emptied out. When you start acting like a warring heretical church, people start treating you like a warring heretical church. People want a connection to the truth, which can only be found in the One True Church. There are plenty of Protestant social clubs to choose from if that’s what they want.

  • Charles

    I believe the misconception that underlies and eventually
    betrays the thrust of your article is that so-called “fruits of Vatican
    II” that eventuated were precisely planted, cultivated and harvested by
    1970 and forty years hence. That has certainly not been the case.

    Though I concur that the
    elemental/skeletal foundation for our liturgical and theological remains in
    tact under the OF, I would have to say that the lineage from Pius X to Pius
    XII, as regards liturgical reformation envisioned in Tra le sollecitudini to
    Mediator Dei might have sewn seeds in the Constitution and Musicam Sacram, but
    were deliberately (some like Dobszay, RIP, would say intentionally) that were
    grown in other religious denomination traditions. That is not to say that even
    under the Roman umbrella of pre-conciliar practice, indults were granted to
    Germanic sees for the Singmesse and other counter-reformation cultural
    accretions. And of course, what Pio X was trying to mitigate was the particularly
    Italian performance Mass, held hostage by prevalence of opera.

    All that allowed, had
    continuity ensued after the CSL/MS legislation, the EF might have seen a
    reorganization of the calendars with adjustments to the Propers accordingly, an
    increased emphasis upon preaching and homiletics, and the cultivation of
    congregation singing of the Ordinary chants already extant.

    I do not point a bony
    finger of indignation at Bugnini, Missal publishers in the US, or other hidden
    hands that had content and product to offer into the liturgical scene and
    marketplace. But the chaos, and that it was, that resulted from 65-70 could not
    help but result in some sort of indiscriminate pastische-liturgicale around the
    catholic globe, some of which we gleefully borrowed from European Protestant traditions.

  • http://mschaut.wordpress.com/ MSchaut

    This means, then, that the martyrs died for NOTHING. Either it was true from the beginning because it was from God, or it was NEVER true and was never from God to start with. Protestantization of the church continues and is driving more and more catholics OUT. We don’t need the buildings or any of the trappings, what we need is the Faith. If we can’t have that with the traditional cathedrals, relics, and etc, then it must occur elsewhere, like catacombs for example.

    • http://pegobry.tumblr.com/ Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry

      I recommend extended bouts of prayer before the Blessed Sacrament.

  • Jz Jz

    What a silly article. “Vatican II was a Protestantizing of Catholicism”. This statement is the most bizarre and historically ignorant thing i’ve read in a very long time. I would suggest that the author do a little study of the Protestant Reformation – The very essence of the Protestant Reformation was to be non-Catholic…to break the God given authority of the Chruch and replace it with man made authority. The Reformation had every bit as much to do with politics as it did with Christianity. For the Catholic Church to “Protestanize” would be to repudiate its very essence.

    Yes their are superficial similarities between Vatican II reforms and Protestantism, but the source of these reforms had nothing whatsoever to do with Protestantism itself. It had to do with ressourcement (the rediscovery of the thought and practices of the early Church Fathers…centuries before anybody thought shattering Christian unity might be a good idea) and a modification of small t tradition to better evangelize the world. When we adopt practices common to Protestant Christians it is because they are good Christian ideas, not Protestant ideas.

    None of this is meant as a shot at our Protestant Christian brethren. Conversations about the future of the Church should include them because they are our brothers and sisters in Christ. But this article lays a false, and frankly bizarre, intellectual foundation for those discussions.

    • BTP

      I’m afraid I’m in substantial agreement with you, here. Most of this sounds like borrowing our own old ideas back; not sure that makes them Protestant ideas. And, like Reno was saying, the Protestant program is all about how it relates to Catholicism — in positive or negative ways — while the Catholic program is all about finding itself in reference to itself.

  • Dan13

    I don’t know. There are many positive things we can take from Protestantism, and Pentecostalism does have an emphasis on the Holy Spirit we can agree with. But there’s also the danger of the Prosperity Gospel message and in some churches a cult of personality.

    • http://pegobry.tumblr.com/ Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry

      Yep. We need to be discerning. Not accepting anything, but also having an evangelical openness.

  • mochalite

    I read this article once, thought it was wonderful, and set it aside to think about it before commenting. I came back a day later, and wow! Okay, I’m Protestant, so I can’t feel with commenters here who see this as undermining the Catholic Church. But that’s just not what I heard in the post.

    I heard what I think Christian unity ultimately demands … that we see things as God sees them, however partially we reach that goal. We have to pray, search the Scriptures, talk with each other, and think about the Church Universal, the call on all believers to be the body of Christ in the world.

    That means that I need to become more Catholic, which I do in part by reading excellent Catholic writers. I see aspects of what you do as filling some voids in my Christian practice (Protestants having thrown the baby out with the bath water, as it were). I would hope, as PEG suggests, that Catholics would see some of what we do as filling some voids in their practice … maybe not “Sola Scriptura,” but “A Whole Lot More Scriptura,” for example.

    There’s a sad tendency, in the U.S. at least, to think that if Jesus were here today, He’d definitely be one of my tribe (though if He’s gonna be a Protestant, it’ll take Him awhile to decide which of the 10,000 denominations is His peeps … so He’d probably pick Catholic just because it’s easiest). How ridiculous that sounds! Jesus would look at us all with pity and say, “Come unto Me,” as He always did. Do we have the courage to think that maybe, just maybe, our earthly constructs are not, in fact, Jesus?

    • mochalite

      Another wow! Went from this to an article on what is apparently a big difference among Reformed peeps on the issue of sanctification … more split-ups over it. The line that popped for me was, “I’d be happy for anyone willing to hash through these questions, ready
      to quote Bible verses and bring to bear the wisdom of our confessional
      tradition.” Tradition? Tradition? Why, that’s awfully Catholic of you!

    • AugustineThomas

      Christian unity demands one Church, like Christ commanded. How you think that 40,000 warring Protestant churches can help Christian unity is beyond me.

      • mochalite

        My point exactly. We need to become one, which ultimately requires dissolving all our tribes and reuniting (easy to type, perhaps impossible to do before Jesus comes again). But to say that the reunified church will look just like today’s Catholic Church makes no more sense to me than to say that it will look like the latest iteration of Presbyterians.

  • http://ephesians4-15.blogspot.ca/ Randy Gritter

    The truth is that the very best of Protestantism is already in Catholicism. Converts, including myself, have been frequently shocked at how much of their protestant spirituality is not only accepted but valued as something Catholics need to learn from. Still, what is Protestantism? What do all those movements have in common? At its heart it is based on my ability to change some aspect of the faith based on my interpretation of scripture. If that is the heart of Protestantism then affirming something else under the label Protestantism is going to get very confusing. Every protestant idea needs to be evaluated and the good parts embraced and the bad parts rejected. Still the central idea of Protestantism needs to be rejected. We cannot reject the church and start a new church based on our own reading of the bible.

    • BTP

      Ha. Parts of it are good, except for the core conceit. When you put it like that…

    • http://pegobry.tumblr.com/ Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry

      “Every protestant idea needs to be evaluated and the good parts embraced and the bad parts rejected. […] [But] We cannot reject the church and start a new church based on our own reading of the bible.”

      Well put! Can’t agree more.

    • Episteme

      I may be a younger, post-Vatican II Catholic at 34, but as a historian I’m also partial to looking at the Church through the eyes of the Scholastics who informed and crafted her knowledge for centuries before the Reformation and long through the Counter-Reformation. If at heart of Catholic pedagogy (from Duns Scotus to Aquinas to Suarez) is the idea of taking two disparate sources and working at them bit by bit to find their commonalities, even if alternate meanings of words need to be employed, I don’t see why my fellow Catholics need to harden their hearts and shout “heretic!” over our prodigal Brothers and Sisters in Christ. I’ve pointed to Vatican II as a different sort of Reformation in itself, answering some of the very questions debated five centuries ago about bringing the laity back into the liturgy (I say as a lay minister in various roles depending on the week). We merely need a Scholastic Ecumenicalism over the Protestant Question, examining where we all fit together in the Vatican II era and working at it to figure how to bring you all home so we can be One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church again.

  • http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/ CT Catholic Corner

    Now I feel sick.

    There is NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING that Jesus Christ’s Holy Catholic Church can learn from heresy -and to be clear protestantism (not protestants themselves) IS heresy.

    See Catholic Answers on this: http://www.catholic.com/tracts/the-great-heresies

    Doesn’t get clearer than that!

    God save us from heretical groups and division who look to deceive ignorant Catholics.

  • SoDakCatholic

    No, if protestants want Catholicism, they have to come our way. We are fighting against the effect that Vatican II had on this Church. It once was a beautiful reverent faith and it has turned into a fellowship before Mass, a mass exit from the faith, unbelief in the real presence etc. They can NOT become a catholic until they can affirm with an AMEN, the teachings of the Church – ALL OF THEM. If not, then don’t join. They know where the Church is. This is a heresy.

    • Mike Feehan

      No, heresy is relying on ANYTHING else but the Word of God. I am a former Catholic and your church does NOT teach the true Gospel. Most Catholics are biblically illiterate….I got out of that church and will NEVER go back. I have gotten saved and want nothing to do with a lukewarm church. Plus, WHO CARES about the teachings of your church????? I care about obeying the WORD OF GOD….Take that damn Catechism of yours and get rid of it..

      • SoDakCatholic

        Oh spare me. You are just one more disgruntled Catholic who blames all of his problems on the Church. If you didn’t think you were saved as a Catholic, you can’t possibly be saved as a whatever you claim to be now. If you knew Catholicism, really knew it, you wouldn’t have left. And leaving the Church is disobeying the Word of God when He tells us to “LISTEN TO THE CHURCh” and tells us that the Church is the house of the living God and He wasn’t talking about your body. BUT hey, if you hate it so much, then you fit right in with the devil, who hates it, too. Have fun. :)

        • Mike Feehan

          Saved as a Catholic??? How, by being dunked in a bucket of water as a baby, IS THAT IT??? Come on, your Pope says that atheists can go to heaven…Your Pope is a walking JOKE. I AM SAVED, GENIUS….Do you ever read the Bible??? Read 1 John 5:13….Read Romans 10:9….What a moron you must be….Leaving the Church is disobeying the Word of God???? How stupid can one get…..Stay in your false religion…I could care less…

          • David & Melissa Aguilar

            If you are saved, why then are you so filled with anger, hatred, and half truths?
            It is a matter of historical fact that:
            Jesus founded the Catholic Church.
            The Catholic Church assembled the bible in the 4th century.
            Martin Luther and other prots altered the bible to suit their needs.
            Hence, you are living a lie.
            God Bless you and keep you and shine his light on you. Come back home to the Faith of Christ. You are currently most likely serving the evil one at the moment.
            Pax.

          • Mike Feehan

            No thanks…I’d rather STICK with hearing the true Gospel…Not with hearing some Church of nice crap priest get up there…Couldn’t pay me enough to go back to that weak church….And, quit your lying…I have checked out the whole Bible thing…That is a LIE on your part…And your Pope is a joke as well…

          • David & Melissa Aguilar

            I am sorry you are so blinded by rage. I will grant you that the church of nice crowd is very destructive to Christ’s church, but leaving it to serve the evil one is not really an improvement.
            You are going to have to point out exactly which of my three statements are lies in your eyes. Be specific please as you are entering into a civilized and respectful discussion with a historian and not a bar room buddy.

          • Mike Feehan

            Not blinded by rage here….Serving the evil one??? Last I checked, the priests that were abusing boys and the overall corruption that has been going on for YEARS is in the Catholic Church…Your lie is that the Bible was written by the Catholic Church…An ABSOLUTE LIE…Your church is full of them, you know like Mary being without sin, like there is a Purgatory, like praying to Mary…..THOSE KINDS OF LIES…

          • BTP

            Oh my. Well, not even P.E.G. wants us to be like every Protestant, I guess!

            I kid, I kid. I kid because I care. You know this.

          • David & Melissa Aguilar

            Anathema.

      • John Flaherty

        I believe you have contradicted yourself. If you toss the Catechism, you’ve abandoned the Word of God summarily.

        • Mike Feehan

          Really?? Is the same Catechsim that tells me that I must be a Catholic in order to go to heaven??? Or that I must have good works ACCOMPLISHED with grace in order to get to heaven when the Bible tells me that it is all by grace?? Give me a break….Your religion is NOT the true Gospel and most of the members of the Catholic Church are deceived by a false religion…

      • squishee

        It is the Catholic Church that told you what scripture is. To be protestant is to be illogical. And by the way, your not saved until you are safely within the Gates of Heaven.

        • Mike Feehan

          A bunch of crap…..OBVIOUSLY, YOU do NOT know Scripture like MOST CATHOLICS….Read 1 John 5:13, genius…..Read Romans 10:9, genius. I know you folks and your church….You are biblically illiterate….Next thing you will tell me is that there is a Purgatory or something like that…..Or that I have to go before a priest for confession, right??? Show me where those are in the Bible…Come on, show me….THE CATHOLIC CHURCH DID NOT CREATE THE BIBLE….So glad I left that false religion, SO GLAD.

          • ME

            The attitude you demonstrate here is so Christlike… Or not. We will pray for you so that you can fully understand what it is you are actually reading in your bible. The gifts of wisdom and understanding are really wonderful gifts, but unfortunately we cannot unwrap them until we can get rid of the pride. Good luck to you in finding Christ. May God grant you the graces to become more Christlike and understand why he set up the sacraments in the church to help us on our journeys.

          • Mike Feehan

            I do not need the sacraments in the Church….Man, you people are DELUSIONAL, YOU REALLY ARE….Next time, you geniuses are going to tell me is that UNLESS ONE IS A CATHOLIC, they cannot get into heaven as your RIDICULOUS CATECHISM states…..Go deal with another moron that you trick into getting into your weak Church….Been going to Bible Studies for ten years with REAL BIBLE believing folks that really, really know their Bible unlike most Catholics that I know….Seriously, take this crap somewhere else…

          • http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/ CT Catholic Corner

            Mike, anyone who is a baptized Christian belongs to the Catholic Church through their baptism- it is an imperfect union, but a union just the same. :)

            In Christ,

            Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

          • Kasoy

            BTW, the Catholic Church recognizes the baptism of some Christian churches so if one converts to Catholicism, he need not be baptized again.

            Also, there are other forms of baptism: baptism by blood (martyrdom – dying for the sake of Christ), baptism by desire (those who fervently desire to join Christ’s Church but was not given a chance to do so before they died).

            All forms of baptism enable a man to become a member of Christ’s Church.

          • http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/ CT Catholic Corner

            Why don’t you answer what YOU believe about the Bible?

            1) Who is it you believe created the Bible?

            2) By what authority did they decide what verses, chapters and books belonged in the Bible?

            3) When did this all happen?

            I’m looking forward to your responses. :)

            In Christ,

            Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

      • AugustineThomas

        It sounds like you’re the one who’s chosen to remain ignorant. Especially if you’re too foolish to realize that the greatest philosophers and theologians since Christ came have been orthodox “Catholic” Christians, that is members of the One True Church.
        You also must be crazy if you haven’t noticed that there are at least as many lukewarm Christians in heretical churches. If you’re honest with yourself, you’re around at least as many lukewarm Christians, and now you’ve compounded your sin by indulging in heresy.
        It’s breathtaking to me that you can think a Protestant social club has a better grasp of theology than the Church (the one that Augustine, Origen, Aquinas, Duns Scotus, Galileo, Erasmus, Lemaitre, etc. were a part of).
        Protestants have done some good because they have retained some of the beliefs of the One True Church.

        • Mike Feehan

          No, I know the Word of God better than most Catholics, I can assure you…Yeah, I know, the ONE TRUE CHURCH garbage again….Heard that tons of times before, haven’t I?? Is this the One True Church whose priests are mostly corrupt and abuse little boys??? Or, is this the ONE TRUE CHURCH whose Pope says that we are NOT to judge people such as homosexuals living in serious sin or is the ONE TRUE CHURCH whose Pope says that ATHEISTS, YES ATHEISTS, can go to heaven?? Beliefs of the one true Church??? Do you mean like “working your way” into heaven when the Bible clearly states that it is by grace? Or do you mean Purgatory which is NOWHERE in the Bible?? Or do you mean by praying to saints and Mary when the Bible instructs us to pray to God and God only??? No, genius, the evangelical church that I attend and the Bible Studies that I attend pretty much rip away from the fabric of the Catholic Church….I will never have anything to do with that false religion ever again.

          • http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/ CT Catholic Corner

            If you knew the word of God you’d be Catholic. :)

          • Mike Feehan

            I DO know the Word of God…In Jeremiah, it states that CURSED is the man that trusts in man…NO mention of Purgatory…No mention of Mary being sinless…There is MENTION of NOT CALLING anyone Father except for God…There IS mention of the fact that I do NOT need to go before a priest for confession…Yeah, genius, I KNOW the WORD of God better than 99% of weak church going only Catholics…Been going to Bible Study for ten years…Trust me, I know the Bible better than most of you weak folks….And I KNOW that I am going to heaven….You folks think that getting to heaven is by works….HOW MANY is it going to take??? So glad I got out of that weak church…

          • http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/ CT Catholic Corner

            I have studied the bible for more than 30 years and I teach the Catholic Faith, so I am guessing I know a bit more than you do about Catholicism.

            I have already given you the scriptures on purgatory and confession in another reply so I won’t repeat myself.

            The angel of God declared Mary sinless when he declared her “full of grace” – to be full of the grace of God is to be sinless, a person with even a drop of sin cannot be ‘full of grace’. Remember Adam and Eve were both created without sin, Mary was immaculately conceived (sinless) because she was to have God in her womb.

            Saint Paul himself in the Bible TEACHES that he (Paul) has become a Father in the Church because of the Gospel. Read 1 Cor. 3:15-16 “Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many FATHERS, for in Christ Jesus I BECAME YOUR FATHER THROUGH THE GOSPEL. There for I urge you imitate me.”

            That is where Catholics get FATHERS, Saint Paul himself teaches this. If you care to learn more on this I’ve got much more to share.

          • Mike Feehan

            OOOOHHHH, you have been a teacher of the faith for thirty years…BIG DEAL….And you still believe in some fairytale called Purgatory…Explain to me Purgatory in lieu of the fact that Jesus told the thief on the cross that TODAY, TODAY, not six months or six years from now, but TODAY, you will be with me in paradise?? Also, please explain purgatory in lieu of the Bible verse which states that to be ABSENT from the Body is to be present with the Lord…Mary was NOT sinless either….She had a savior, didn’t she??? Your Pope is a biblically illiterate man….The NUMBER of years that you have taught the faith DOES NOT impress me…Most Catholics, if you ask them how you get to heaven, spew off some CRAP like, well, be a good person, do enough good things….iT IS GARBAGE and not even Biblical…You folks ever read Ephesians 2:8 and 2:9 or Titus 3:5??? Don’t kid yourself. I meet folks ALL THE TIME who got the heck out of your Church that is a false religion….Most Catholics are CLUELESS as it relates to the Bible.

          • http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/ CT Catholic Corner

            Sweetheart, that IS purgatory and I am more than happy to explain it to you or anyone else who wants to understand it. The ‘today you will be with me in paradise’ Jesus and the thief went to was NOT Heaven, but rather Paradise AKA PURGATORY. You pointed out the perfect reference FOR purgatory and you didn’t even know it!
            They did NOT go to Heaven according to the bible. Jesus did NOT go to Heaven for another 40 DAYS according to scripture. Jesus went to “the place of the Righteous” (paradise/purgatory) to release the righteous people waiting for Heaven from before his time.
            No one entered Heaven before Christ ascended on the 40th day after he left the tomb (John 3:13).

            Need more proof?

            What is the FIRST thing Jesus says when he comes out of the tomb and meets Mary Magdalene in John 20:17? He says “Do not hold on to me because I HAVE NOT YET RETURNED TO THE FATHER.”

            He comes out of the tomb after going to “paradise”
            with the thief and says he hasn’t gone to Heaven yet. Paradise is NOT heaven, paradise is PURGATORY- the place where the righteous are being cleansed before entering Heaven. There are other names as well
            like “Abraham’s side” (Luke 16:19-31) and “the third heaven” (2 Cor. 12:2) and “The Sign of Jonah” (Matthew 12:40).

            Want more proof?

            Jesus ascends to Heaven AFTER 40 days on earth,
            NOT when he is in the tomb: Acts 1:3 “After his suffering he presented himself alive to them by many convincing proofs, appearing to them during forty days and
            speaking about the kingdom of God.” And… Acts 1:9 “When he had said this, as they were watching, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight.”

            That is when Jesus went to Heaven not before. How do we know this, because the Bible tells us so.

            Ephesians 4: 9 (When it says, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is the same one who ascended far above all the heavens, so that he might fill all things.)”

            Where did he DESCEND TO? Paradise/Purgatory/Abraham’s Side is where the righteous await Heaven. How do we know? The Bible tells us so…

            2 Cor. 12:2 – “I know a person in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know; God knows. 3 And I know that such a person—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know; God knows— 4 was caught up into Paradise and heard things that are not to be told, that no mortal is permitted to repeat.”

            Do you understand this? Because purgatory is where a soul is cleansed on its way to Heaven it is a ‘paradise’ (not a hell or a heaven, but a paradise) the righteous know they are headed to Heaven where God is. The “third heaven” is yet another term for ‘paradise/purgatory’ as it is shown right there in those verses.

            The “Sign of Jonah” (Matthew 12) tells you that Jesus is NOT going to be in Heaven while his body is in the tomb.

            Matthew 12:40 – “For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so for three days and three nights the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth.”

            Those three days Jesus and the thief spent in
            PURGATORY/PARADISE/ABRAHAM’S SIDE etc…it was NOT heaven. Do you see that now?

            And for the record, I did not say I have been teaching for 30 years, I said I have studied the Bible for 30 years (I have been teaching less than a decade).

            In Christ,

            Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

          • Mike Feehan

            You Catholics just LOVE to talk about your Church….I CANNOT, but then again, I can believe that you are so, SO delusional to think that there is a Purgatory….Genius, I have ran this by solid evangelical pastors who do this for a living, I have watched folks on TV, SOLID BIBLICAL folks who do this for a living and the first thing they say that if, IF there is a Purgatory AND THERE IS NOT, then WHAT was the P0INT OF THE CROSS??? By the way, since you Catholics believe that GOOD WORKS equate to salvation, HOW MANY good works is it going to take for you to get into heaven?? 500, 600, 1000?? You are lost and you don’t even know it….Purgatory=Crap….Works based salvation=CRAP and not biblical…

          • http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/ CT Catholic Corner

            Why didn’t you address all the scripture I gave you?
            I am unimpressed with tv evangelicals who personally interpret the scriptures to suit themselves- they will be judged quite severely one day for leading people away from Christ’s Church.
            Jesus died on the cross to REDEEM us, hence he is The Redeemer. People continue to sin and because of that must continue to repent and confess those sins. Jesus redeemed us ONCE, we repent over and over and over again in our life. Sin dirties the soul and the soul must be pure to enter Heaven. Purgatory purges the filth from our souls and makes us pure to enter Heaven. No impure thing can enter heaven. God set this up, not the Catholic Church. Now go back and read all the scriptures I gave you.

          • Mike Feehan

            I already have read the Scriptures that you have provided to me….You are delusional thinking that there is a Purgatory….Please explain to me the verse in the Bible where Jesus says to be absent from the body is to be PRESENT, PRESENT, PRESENT with the Lord….Come on, genius, explain that one to me…You and 99% of other Catholics are delusional as it relates to purgatory, one true Church GARBAGE, the fact that Mary was sinless, etc, etc, etc….So glad that I got out of that false RELIGION, RELIGION, RELIGION, that hardly saves anyone….Are you saved and if so, how do you know??? I AM saved, done deal….What was the POINT of the Cross genius.??? Did Jesus take care of it all at the Cross OR NOT??? Being saved does NOT give one license to sin either. I have a new heart and do not have the same desires that I used to have…I left the weak Catholic Church that does NOT teach the Gospel years ago along with TONS of Ex-Catholics that I know….Your church is a weak Church and Your Pope, YOUR HOLY FATHER, is pretty much a JOKE as well..

          • http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/ CT Catholic Corner

            “to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord” means at the moment of your death you are judged. This is called “Particular Judgement”.

            Catholic Catechism note the “good thief” explained in #1031 and particular judgement of other individuals in #1022 –

            I. The Particular
            Judgment

            1021 Death puts an end to human life as the time open to
            either accepting or rejecting the divine grace manifested in Christ.590 The New Testament speaks of judgment primarily in its aspect of the final encounter with
            Christ in his second coming, but also repeatedly affirms that each will be rewarded immediately after death in accordance with his works and faith. the parable of the poor man Lazarus and the words of Christ on the cross to the good thief, as well as other New Testament texts speak of a final destiny of the soul -a destiny which can be different for some and for others.591

            1022 Each man receives his eternal retribution in his
            immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven-through a purification592 or immediately,593-or immediate and everlasting damnation.594
            At the evening of life, we shall be judged on our love.595

            Any other questions?

            By the way, you talk about having a ‘new heart’ and being a changed person…from what you write here and how you show yourself I’d say your ‘new heart’ isn’t a very good one. The fruit of your leaving Christ’s Holy Catholic Church is rotten. Come back home and be renewed in the graces and Sacraments Christ has for you.

            In Christ,

            Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

          • Mike Feehan

            I don’t give a DAMN what some Catechism or some Pope says….I PAY ATTENTION TO THE HOLY WORD OF GOD, THE BIBLE, which most of you Catholics have little to no clue of….You use something OUTSIDE of scripture to TRY and prove your point….THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS PURGATORY MORON…..JESUS SAID, IT IS FINISHED….WHAT PART OF THAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND???? I am NOT ever going back to a church that teaches a false religion based on works….WHY WOULD I??? I HAVE THE REAL THING WHERE I AM AT NOW….I DO NOT NEED ANY WEAK AND MOSTLY GAY PRIEST TO DO MY CONFESSIONS BEFORE, I DON’T NEED TO PRAY TO MARY, I DON’T NEED TO CALL ANYONE ELSE FATHER EXCEPT FOR GOD…..GET A CLUE…Go back to your false religion church….NO WAY IN HELL WILL YOU OR ANYONE EVER SEE ME THERE…

          • http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/ CT Catholic Corner

            Settle down Mike, you are beginning to foam at the mouth.

            Umm…don’t you know what a catechism is? Even some protestant churches have them (Lutheran’s have 2 catechisms, Episcopalians have them etc). They are a reference source that lists what a church believes and where those beliefs come from. The catechism gives the scripture source for each belief, hence the reason I gave it to you. Did you not see it quoted scripture?

            You can call me any names you want, it doesn’t bother me at all, but it does make you look pretty bad as a protestant who claims to be better off for having left Christ’s Holy Catholic Church and your claim to a ‘new heart’ is at this point impossible to believe, my friend.

            “By their fruits you will know them.” Rotten fruit isn’t from God.

            Pray for wisdom and open your heart to hear the Truth from God. If you do that, I have no doubt you will come home to Christ’s Holy Catholic Church.

            In Christ,

            Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

          • Mike Feehan

            Yes, I know what a Catechism is…The problem that I have with yours is that you use it to ADD ON to God’s Word and that is NOT COOL or appropriate at all….In that Catechsim, you have CRAP that says things like salvation is attained by good works ACCOMPLISHED with grace which TOTALLY TOTALLY contradicts Ephesians 2:8 and 2:9 as well as Titus 3:5. Trust me, I know all about this false religion that prays to Mary, requires one to go before some most likely homo priest for confession, believes that Mary was born sinless, calls a totally joke Pope Holy Father….JESUS CHRIST, YES JESUS CHRIST is my Holy Father, PERIOD…I don’t care what you think…Unlike most of your “nice and weak” priests, I am not here looking to gain the approval of man or woman. I have NO DOUBT that I will ever step feet in that weak Church ever again….Don’t waste your time with me…I know my stuff as it relates to salvation…Go try and attempt to fool some clueless individual out there…Barking up the WRONG tree here…

          • http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/ CT Catholic Corner

            You have no idea what the Catholic Church teaches because in your rants you say things that simply are NOT true of the Catholic Church.

            The Church does NOT teach we are saved by working our way to Heaven. I know you don’t like the catechism, but it is the place where all the official beliefs of the Church are held and if you bothered to look you would SEE that the Church says we are saved by THE GRACE OF GOD and that no man works his way to Heaven.

            You are confused by what ‘works’ means, ‘works’ is just another word for ‘fruits’. You know those “By their fruits you will know them” that Jesus spoke of?

            If a person is in Christ and grace is working in them, the ‘fruits/works’ of that grace will be shown (Matthew 25 the Sheep and the Goats). In the story of the sheep and the goats BOTH knew Jesus. The difference was the goats did no works- that is the produced no good fruit with the grace they had. The sheep on the other hand DID produce good fruit. The Sheep gained salvation because they produced good fruit, while the goats went to hell because they did not. Their fruits/works are how Jesus judged them. Again, ‘by their fruits you will know them”.

            Read Matthew 25:31-46 and pay close attention to those final verses. That is what the Church teaches about ‘works’.

            If you want more on it, read Saint Paul who said…
            (Philippians 2:12-13)
            12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in
            my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.”

            That is the “work” the Catholic Church teaches. No man works his way into Heaven, he puts the grace God gives him to work and produces good fruit. That good fruit is judged by Jesus (Matthew 25 The Sheep and the Goats) who will send you to Heaven. If you produce bad fruit or have done nothing with the grace given you (no works) you go to Hell. That my friend, is what the Bible teaches and that is what the Catholic Church teaches.

            As far as Confession goes, you will find that in several places in the Bible…start with John 20:22-23 “And with that he[Jesus] breathed on them and said, ‘If you forgive anyone their sins, they are forgiven. If you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

            That is just one place in the Bible where Confession is seen. When Jesus breathed on them, he gave them the authority to forgive the sins of the people. This is not so different as in the Old Testament when the priests forgave the sins of people when they brought them sin offerings. Since Jesus IS the sin offering under the New Covenant, we don’t need a new sacrifice, we merely need to confess the sin to a priest who has the authority given to them from Jesus to forgive. That IS Biblical Mike, it is right there to all to see if they would simply open their eyes to the Truth of God.

            And sharing the Catholic faith with you and others is NEVER a waste of time.

            In Christ,

            Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

          • Mike Feehan

            Sharing it with me IS a waste of time….I KNOW the Truth and it is NOT in the Catholic Church where your church prays to Mary, where you tell your flock that they have to go before a priest (ANOTHER SINNER) for confession where the BIBLE, THE BIBLE, tells me that there is one mediator between GOD AND MAN and that is Jesus Christ, NOT some weak priest…You people are going to manipulate and twist the Bible, the Cathecism to suit your needs and so I am wasting my time…I have been there, done that, with you folks…I just met with a Catholic Couple two weeks ago, a couple HEAVILY involved in their church, and they told me all kinds of stuff that was proven to be untrue when I ran it by some SOLID BIBLE STUDY friends of mine. Maybe, JUST MAYBE, you are one of the few Catholics that are saved and somewhat gets it, but trust me, I see tons of you folks racing to daily Mass because you think that somehow, somehow, by doing that, God is going to give you brownie points….Most of your Church must NOT have read Titus 3:5 which states that it is NOT by works of righteousness which we have done and/or Isiah 64:6 which states thal all of of our good works are worth filthy rags. ****Your Catechism teaches that one must be a member of the Catholic Church in order to be saved and if he or she leaves, they put their salvation in jeopardy….PLEASE SHOW WHERE THAT IS MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE, THE BIBLE, NOT SOME CATECHSIM……Also, your Catechsim states that one must have good works accomplished with grace….It is GRACE alone via Ephesians 2:8 and 9. Works are a RESULT of being saved, NOT some endeavor that is worked out to get saved…****One last thing….I can convey to you that I am saved via 1 John 5:13 and Ephesians 2:8 and 9 and Titus 3:5….Why does your Church refuse to allow anyone to convey that they are saved??

          • http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/ CT Catholic Corner

            Mike I have already answered many of these questions, so please refer to my previous replies. As far as people running to Mass for “brownie points” you are gravely mistaken.
            We attend Mass to worship and have Jesus in the Eucharist (John 6:55-56) “For my flesh is REAL food and my blood is REAL drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood and remains in me, and I in him.” THAT my friend is why Catholics run to Mass.

            The reason a person jeopardizes their salvation by leaving the faith is because they are rejected what Christ gives them. Its like sticking your nose up at God and saying “Thanks but no thanks, I can do it on my own without you.” That is the man-made/working your own way to heaven that you say we Catholics do. Its not us doing it, it’s ex-Catholics and protestants who reject Christ’s teaching and his Church.

            In Christ,

            Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

          • Mike Feehan

            Yeah, Yeah, I know…I am DOOMED because I don’t belong to a weak Church that prays to Mary, right?? So Billy Graham, AW TOZIER, BIlly Graham, EVENTUALLY, Dietrich Bonnhoffer, DL Moody, etc, etc, etc, are ALL going to end up in HELL, right??? Come on, take your CRAP somewhere else, please. I took the Eucharist for ALL OF THOSE YEARS and it did not do a DARN THING for me….Didn’t change my heart, NOTHING…It was NOT until I got born again/saved (OUT OF THE WEAK CATHOLIC CHURCH) that I got stronger and had different desires. You are TOTALLY disregarding Romans 10:9 and 1 John 5:13 which is QUITE ARROGANT on your part to say the least. By the way, you claim that yours is the ONE TRUE CHURCH…Pretty DARN HYSTERICAL that that ONE TRUE CHURCH is so clueless that it voted in the MOST PRO-ABORTION/MURDER PRESIDENT IN THIS COUNTRY’S HISTORY TWICE, NOT JUST ONCE, BUT TWICE!!!!!…Come on, how can that many Catholics vote for that atheist???? He is an atheist, don’t come on here and tell me that he is some Christian either. I know TONS of Christians, solid men and women of god and he is NO CHRISTIAN…Seriously, whoever wins the Catholic vote wins the election….Your church put in the most PRO-MURDER PRESIDENT in this country’s history TWICE…Do you think that that just by eating the Eucharist that you are going to heaven??? Do you REALLY THINK THAT???

          • http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/ CT Catholic Corner

            Mike no one on earth knows who is going to Hell. I certainly hope NO ONE goes to Hell.

            I think it is an absolute tragedy that you can speak that way about our Lord -that you ‘took’ the Eucharist (Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ) and He did “nothing” for you. You have NO understanding of Holy Communion or the Sacraments- that is clear in your replies.

            The grace was there, it was your failure to recognize Him in the Eucharist. You story is a tragic one, but you are not alone in it. Sadly, there are far, far too many uneducated Catholics who do not understand or see Christ in the Eucharist.

            Do you not know that when you look upon the Eucharist you are seeing Christ on the cross in His Passion? He is giving himself to YOU, he died for you and is offering His Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity for you, and all you can say back to him is “I got nothing”?? That is one of the most horrible things I have ever heard.

            About elections…the Church does not vote in elections, people do. And as we see with you Mike, there are far too many uneducated Catholics out there- even voting ones.

            In Christ,

            Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

          • Mike Feehan

            Noone knows who is going to Hell??? Really??? Pretty simple….If you trust in ANYTHING else except Jesus Christ alone, one is going to Hell. So, if you trust in your works, your Church, the Pope (God only knows why anyone would do that), I am NOT a Catholic so please do not call me one….Your Church put this total atheist into office, YOUR CHURCH, NOT MINE…Your church has a ton of weak cowards that don’t have the darn GUTS to get up there and talk about things like same sex marriage, birth control, and abortion…Your own governor is a FAKE CATHOLIC and yet I am guessing that your bishop has not EXCOMMUNICATED him, HAS HE??? Pretty much absolute cowards in your church leadership, don’t kid yourself….A bunch of cowards…As it relates to the Eucharist, I know what I know about that…I think that it is an absolute tragedy for your Church to pray to Mary, to honor saints, and to say that Mary was sinless…Don’t kid yourself, most people in the Catholic Church are NOT hearing the REAL GOSPEL…

          • http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/ CT Catholic Corner

            You are confusing two different things here. Again, NO ONE knows WHO is going to Hell. We know what THINGS can send a person to Hell, but we do NOT know WHO is going to Hell because right up until a persons last breath they can repent and be saved.

            We don’t judge who is in Hell, that is God’s job.

            You keep saying my Church is ‘weak’ because it won’t talk about same sex marriage, birth control or abortion and yet my Church is the ONLY Church in the WORLD that has said those things are WRONG for over 2,000 years now!

            Protestant denominations VOTE on these things and change their opinions and doctrines CONSTANTLY on these issues. Christ’s Holy Catholic Church will NEVER change these beliefs because the Holy Spirit guides the Catholic Church in all Moral and Faith matters.
            All the things you complain about are actually Protestant problems, NOT Catholic ones.

            In Christ,

            Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

          • Mike Feehan

            If you DO NOT trust in Jesus Christ and JESUS CHRIST alone, you are in Hell. The Bible makes that pretty darn clear. It is not because of the Catholic Church that one is going to heaven…Come on, get real….Your church has had some REAL DOOZIES such as Teddy Kennedy, Biden, Pelosi, etc. Are you delusional enough to think that they are getting into heaven because they are “Catholic?””” The church that I attend and have always attended goes by what the Bible, THE BIBLE, teaches….

          • http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/ CT Catholic Corner

            I repeat NO ONE knows WHO is going to Hell. We know what THINGS can send a person to Hell, but we do NOT know WHO is going to Hell because right up until a persons last breath they can repent and be saved.

            We don’t judge who is in Hell, that is God’s job.

            In Christ,

            Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

          • Mike Feehan

            Well, I hope that you are not naïve enough to believe that a priest giving last rites to a person does anything, do you?? A person has to trust JESUS CHRIST, AND JESUS CHRIST alone for their salvation…Not the Catholic Church, NOT the Pope, Not the Catechsim, Not their works…JESUS CHRIST AND JESUS CHRIST ALONE….Hardly ever heard of the true salvation message at the Catholic Church…One other thing…There was a priest this weekend who exposed himself at a gas station to some folks about a half an hour away from here….So, let me get this straight, in your world, I am supposed to go confess my sins to someone who may be a bigger sinner than me, is that it??? No, I prefer to obey what the Word of God says…THERE IS ONE MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MAN AND THAT IS JESUS CHRIST…

          • http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/ CT Catholic Corner

            Of course it does something, they are confessing their sins before death (repenting is needed for salvation) and then receiving the grace of “last rites” (we don’t use that term much anymore).

            John 20:22-23 “And with the he [Jesus] breathed on them and said, ‘If YOU forgive anyone their sins, they ARE forgiven; if YOU do not forgive them their sins, they are NOT forgiven.”
            Jesus gave the authority to forgive sins to his priests. Its all right there in that Bible you cling to.

            Question: Why do you think Jesus didn’t hand out Bibles to people?

            In Christ,

            Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

          • http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/ CT Catholic Corner

            We do trust in Jesus Christ- he’s the one who gave us His Holy Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is a gift from Jesus to believers who follow him. As far as people in the Church who have failed our first example was Saint Peter our first Pope who denied knowing Jesus. Moses was a murderer who was used by God. Saint Paul was a miserable hate filled man until Jesus changed him. That’s the wonderful part of being Catholic, our sins can be forgiven and we can start over.

            In Christ,

            Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

          • Kasoy

            As I explained in one of my (long) comments here:

            There is confusion even among Catholics on this matter: salvation by grace or works.

            1- Before Christ died on the cross, NO MAN could enter heaven (even Abraham, Moses, Noah, David, etc).

            2- After Christ died and resurrected, all those who died doing good (ie, follow God’s laws), were taken by Jesus to heaven (including Abraham, Moses, even the good thief).

            3- After Christ died and resurrected, God opened the doors of heaven to ALL – ALL are invited to enter the “Wedding Feast”. God gives grace to ALL to do good works (follow God’s laws – do corporal and spiritual works of mercy). NOTE: Man CANNOT do any good works without God’s grace. Grace is God’s gift – freely given to both good and bad.

            4- Man, however, using his free will, can accept God’s grace to do good OR reject it.

            5- When man accepts grace to do good, he accepts God’s invitation to enter heaven,ie to be saved. When he rejects God’s grace, he cannot do any good only evil, thus he refuses to enter heaven,ie he refuses to be saved.

            Man is saved by both accepting grace AND doing good works. Good Works means following God’s laws – doing good to others and avoiding sins. These are the “fruits” of grace.

          • ME

            So you believe the fallible teachings of the evangelical pastors that you trust so well, that know better than the entire 2000 year history of the Catholic church? There is no chance in your mind that these people could be wrong? Yet you cannot believe in the power of the Holy Spirit to protect the Catholic church from teaching error? If the church was that wrong and that evil, how could it have survived as an institution on earth for 2000 years with the faults of all the men and women that have come and gone during this time? God has protected his church all this time. And that is what we must remember, the Catholic Church is Jesus’ church. We are just privileged to have a share in his glory, and the way he has asked us to share in his glory is through his church and the graces he provides through the church and the sacraments.

          • Mike Feehan

            I believe what the Bible says…The Bible tells me that I need not do rosaries. The Bible tells me that I do not need to go before a weak priest to confess my sins….Why should I as he is just another weak sinner as I am?? The Bible tells me that I do not need to pray to Mary….The Bible tells me that if I follow a man-made religion, I am CURSED….The Bible tells me that I am saved by grace, NOT WORKS as your weak Church teaches…..Please, take your Church and show it to someone else that is a moron. I wasted too many darn years in that weak church hearing mostly weak homilies from mostly weak men of God….Been there, done that..

          • ME

            It sounds like your personally made religion is working quite well for you. I wish you could be a little happier of a Christian following what you know so well to be true. May God bless you and guide you on the path that will get you to heaven. I love the path I’m on and will pray for you to find joy in your life, becUse it sure doesn’t sound like you have it now.

          • Mike Feehan

            I don’t do religion….That is for weak Catholic Church folks…BEEN THERE, DONE THAT….I do Christianity which is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, something the Catholic WEAK Church does not teach….Your weak Church does not teach people about the Bible either. Wonder why your weak Church does NOT have Bibles in the Pews???? Seriously, MOST Cathollcs have NO CLUE on what it takes to get saved….I am THRILLED AS I am saved and am going to heaven regardless of what you or your man made religion church thinks….It is a done deal, PERIOD…Of course, in your Church, your mistakenly teach you that you have to work for your salvation….Again, been there, done that….Will NEVER go back….Good luck to you…

          • http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/ CT Catholic Corner

            We don’t have Bibles in the pews because we are not there to read books we are there to worship God. How do you think the first Christians worshiped before any Bibles existed? Saints Peter, Paul and John were not in churches telling people to flip to this or that chapter in the Bible.
            The Catholic Mass is about WORSHIP. Period.
            There are several Bible readings done at each Mass, probably more scriptures are read at a Catholic Mass than at any protestant service. But the focus is NEVER about reading verses, it is about WORSHIP.

          • Mike Feehan

            Yes, you do some readings and then the priest gets up there and gives a weak fifteen minute homily and then you are onto the Apostles Creed. The Catholic Church is about worshipping graven images (idolatry, about worshipping Mary (sorry, I pray to God), That is what your worship is about, don’t kid yourself….Really interesting that your church honors so-called Saints when in the Book of Hebrews, if I am a born again believer which I am, I am a SAINT as well..

          • http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/ CT Catholic Corner

            What graven images and idolatry are you speaking of?
            We do NOT worship Mary, never have and never will. The Church teaches that Worship is for God alone.

            There are all sorts of different ways to honor people Mike. Schools honor students for good grades or good attendance, police and firemen are honored for saving lives, soldiers are honored for being heroes etc.

            Have you ever heard the terms “dulia”, “hyperdulia” and “latria”? We honor Saints like St. Francis or St. Patrick with ‘dulia’. Because Mary is and was the best saint we honor her with ‘hyperdulia’. For God and God alone, we honor and worship Him- this is latria (worship). Latria is for God alone and is not shared with ANY saint.

            Please take the time to look up “latria”, “dulia” and “hyperdulia” in the dictionary. This explains the differences in how Catholics honor saints, Mary and God.

            In Christ,

            Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

          • Mike Feehan

            Why does your church pray to St. Michael the Archangel at the end of Masses that I have attended in the past?? Seriously WHY?? Last I checked, saints are SINNERS just like you and I, why would I feel the need to pray to them?? Secondly, why did your church honor two supposed saints last week in the Vatican?? I tell my friends, WHY DIDN’T THEY HONOR ME AS I AM A BORN AGAIN BELIEVER??? Heck, Pope John Paul II honored a priest that from the Legionnaires of Christ who was charged with child abuse and the Pope KNEW about it and yet honored him anyway….He is a SAINT, ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? Again, he is a SINNER just like you and I, what makes him so special????? You have idolatry all over your church with symbols of Mary, the saints, etc, etc, etc…Don’t kid yourself, your church does NOT worship only God…You think I am stupid or something??? I have been around your church long enough to call it like I see it….Your church spits in God’s face by praying to saints and by praying to Mary…

          • http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/ CT Catholic Corner

            Pray tell Mike, how exactly is praying to a Saint worship? :)

            The St.Michael prayer at the end of Mass was done away with after Vatican II, though a few parishes have brought it back. You need to read the story of Pope Leo Xiii’s vision of the war between Satan and the Catholic Church to understand why that prayer was put at the end of Mass so long ago. Personally, I wish they would bring it back in all parishes, but they have not.

            The Catholic Church does not “make” saints, it merely recognizes those who are Saints. Again, you are confusing people already in Heaven (Saints) with people on earth journeying to their own sainthood.

            There are no sinners in Heaven Mike, not one. All in Heaven are Saints and the Saints in Heaven are taking our prayers and presenting them to God on our behalf. Have you never prayed on behalf of a family member or friend? They can certainly pray for themselves, but it doesn’t hurt to ask others to pray with you and for you. That is what the Saints in heaven are doing, they too are praying for us here on earth. (Rev.5:8)

            In Christ,

            Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

          • Mike Feehan

            Please tell me you don’t believe in praying for the dead, DO YOU??? I mean, seriously, how much time can one waste???

          • http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/ CT Catholic Corner

            Ahhh…Mike, the soul is immortal it is not dead. Only the body is dead. Praying for the dead is completely biblical and yes, like the Jews of the Old Testament and New, I do pray for the dead.
            Since you think you dislike all things Catholic, ask a Jewish Rabbi what KADDISH is.
            :)

            In Christ,

            Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

          • Mike Feehan

            No, praying for the Dead is a WASTE of time….Only you delusional Catholics believe in this crap….One is either in HEAVEN OR HELL, period. What is the point of praying at that point?? Seriously, they are in heaven or hell…If you want to pray, go ahead and pray, but once a soul leaves this earth, they are in heaven or hell. By the way, most Catholics are NOT saved either….They mistakenly think that by going to Church once a week and being a “good person”, WHATEVER THE HELL THAT IS, CERTAINLY NOT BIBLICAL, that they are going to heaven….WRONG, WRONG, on all counts. Again, MOST CATHOLICS are NOT born again and will not make heaven…Your church teaches a religion, NOT TRUE CHRISTIANITY, DON’T KID YOURSELF…

          • http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/ CT Catholic Corner

            Again, we pray FOR people in PURGATORY. If you don’t accept Catholic teaching on praying for the dead, check out Jewish teaching- research “KADDISH” and perhaps then you will understand.
            I have no idea what Catholics you are speaking for who think being a ‘good’ person gains them salvation, that is NOT a Catholic teaching and I don’t know anyone who believes that. Perhaps you have surrounded yourself with uneducated people and need a new circle of friends? 😉

            In Christ,

            Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

          • Mike Feehan

            There are TONS of folks out there who believe that by attending daily mass, doing good things, that they are SOMEHOW earning brownie points with God….Don’t kid yourself….You think most people go to daily Mass because of the Eucharist or because they “really” love Jesus??? Come on, that is a bunch of crap….They go because they think that somehow that is going to make them right with God and that is a lie sending tons of people to hell….It is only by trust in CHRIST and CHRIST ALONE that someone makes it there…Not your Church, Not your Pope, Not your good works….Trusting in Christ and Christ alone…***How many Catholics would know what Ephesians 2:8 and 9 say as well as Titus 3:5? Not many..

          • http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/ CT Catholic Corner

            If what you claim is true Mike (though I do not believe you) then they must all have been educated by the same person who educated you in the Catholic Faith because you are all confused and wrong about what it means to be Catholic.

            In Christ,

            Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

          • Mike Feehan

            Even your POPE has stated that it is about doing good, good deeds, etc, etc. If I were to ask most Catholics to tell me what Ephesians 2:8 and 2:9 say as well as Titus 3:5, they would have NO CLUE what they say…How do I know this??? I met with two LONGTIME Catholics about three weeks ago and they could NOT tell me what those had meant…It is as if they had never seen or heard of those verses. These folks ALSO told me that it was by works…I asked them HOW MANY is it going to take and they said that they NEVER had thought of it like that.. Don’t be so naïve…Most Catholics have little to no clue what those two verses have to say…Most born again Christians DO. You can figured THAT ONE out for yourself…

          • http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/ CT Catholic Corner

            Again, they must have been educated by the same person who educated you about the Catholic Faith because you are ALL wrong.
            Tell me Mike, how did Christians exist before there were Bibles?

            In Christ,

            Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

          • Mike Feehan

            One more thing. I heard a sermon on same sex marriage a couple of week ago and it was about 45 minutes long….NOT ONCE, ONCE, did I ever hear a priest get up there and talk about same sex marriage even though 54% of Catholics in the latest survey approve of HOMO marriage…Why is that?? Could it be because most of your priests are homos?? Seriously, get real. Your church is mostly made up of weak, weak folks in the pews and weak, weak, gutless church leaders…..Why they call it the Church of Nice…..Church of Nice that is sending quite a bit of folks to HELL because they hear NOTHING about being saved….You or anyone else will NEVER, EVER get me back to that weak church…I wasted enough time there..

          • http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/ CT Catholic Corner

            I have no idea why you don’t hear certain things in homilies, but why does that matter when the Catholic Church is VERY clear on the issue of gay ‘marriage’- it REJECTS it completely. It is protestant denominations that support gay ‘marriage’ NOT the Catholic Church.
            I don’t know what ‘weak’ people you see in the Church but I see a Church full of Saints and Martyrs who died for their Catholic Faith – nothing weak about that.

            In Christ,

            Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

          • Mike Feehan

            WHY DOES IT MATTER??? WHY DOES IT MATTER??? Because 54% of Catholics in a survey that I saw APPROVED of it, THAT IS WHY IT MATTERS…Plus, it matters because your priests overall are COWARDS and rarely ever speak on things like abortion and HOMO marriage….I spoke with two EX-Catholics today at my church and we each agreed that your church does NOT teach the true Gospel. You see a church full of saints??? Come on, I see a dead church full of dead folks that are NOT saved….Not saved, don’t kid yoursrelf. I and SO MANY others that I know are saved and KNOW it….Most Catholics are LOST…

          • http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/ CT Catholic Corner

            Well, if you and a whole two other people each agreed then it simply must be true! LOL So much for 2,000+ years of Christian history and theology. :)

            I’ll pray for you and your two friends.

            In Christ,

            Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

          • Mike Feehan

            NO NEED to pray for us….WE are each SAVED and heading for heaven…DONE DEAL….Why would you pray for two folks that are saved??? If you are going to pray, pray for all of the lost Catholics sitting in your pews who mistakenly think that by giving God a WHOLE HOUR per week, that somehow, that makes them right with God…You want to talk about hiliarious…Seriously, pray for your Pope…You want to talk about a LOST soul, saying that atheists can get into heaven…CLUELESS, ABSOLUTELY CLUELESS…AND YET YOUR CHURCH CALLS THIS JOKESTER HOLY FATHER???

          • http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/ CT Catholic Corner

            How do you KNOW you are saved?

            Careful, I am admittedly setting you up here. 😉

            In Christ,

            Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

          • Mike Feehan

            Because I have trusted Jesus Christ as my savior, admitted that I am a sinner, and my past, present, and future sins have been washed away…It is Romans 10:9. In conjunction with that, I have been born again…Jesus was referring to Nicodemus’s religiosity when he told him that he had to get born again…I KNOW that runs contradictory to the false Catholic way that says that one cannot presume, but oh well….Just going by what the Bible has to say…

          • http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/ CT Catholic Corner

            So you have TWO qualifications for being saved 1) trust Jesus is the Savior and 2) admit you are sinner, right?

            Well good news Mike! Catholics are all SAVED! You have just declared it so! Thank you!

            Apostles Creed: I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and earth;
            and in Jesus Christ, His only Son Our Lord,
            Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.
            He descended into Hell; the third day He rose again from the dead;
            He ascended into Heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of God, the Father almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
            I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body and life everlasting.
            Amen.

            I told you it was a trick question. :)

            In Christ,

            Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

            P.S. Another question (be careful it’s another trick one)…
            Can a person lose their salvation? That is, do you believe in “once saved always saved”?

          • Mike Feehan

            Wrong. Nice try, though. You conveniently forgot the “born again” part. One must be born again to enter heaven which most Catholics do not know anything about. Do you think Teddy Kennedy is in heaven??? Come on, most Catholics are NOT born again because that is not taught in your church. Because salvation is a gift from God, no one can lose their salvation and that is evidenced via Romans 11:29.

          • http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/ CT Catholic Corner

            I didn’t forget anything, the Catholic Church certainly does believe in people being ‘born again’ though we call it the ‘new birth’ which is what the original Scripture text translated it to.

            Catholic Catechism: 720
            Finally, with John the Baptist, the Holy Spirit begins the restoration to man of “the divine likeness,” prefiguring what he would achieve with and in Christ.
            John’s baptism was for repentance; baptism in water and the Spirit will be a new birth.

            All Catholics are ‘born again’ as are all Christians of any denomination if they have been baptized properly(Father, Son and Holy Spirit).

            Now you claim no one can lose their salvation, but Jesus says they can (John 15:5-7).

            Do you honestly think that EVERYONE who once believed and followed Jesus and then left are still saved? Not so.

            The BTK serial killer is a ‘once saved always saved’ believer too (deacon in his church), but I wonder if you think he will be in Heaven one day?

            As I said before, I have no idea who is damned, I hope no one.

            In Christ,

            Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

          • Mike Feehan

            All Catholics are NOT born again…Come on, you cannot honestly believe that, can you?? Plus, please do not refer to the Catechism….That is NOT part of the Bible. Dunking someone in a bucket of water as a baby does NOTHING to one’s heart…Becoming born again has to do with having one’s heart changed and having different desires as I do. Again, most Catholics are UNSAVED…In regards to your second question, It is a gift and so it cannot be given back. Thirdly, there are folks that are damned….The verse in Matthew spells this out clearly when it states that narrow is the way, few are chosen..

          • http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/ CT Catholic Corner

            I gave you the catechism to PROVE the Church believes in being born anew (or your ‘born again’ term). You said the Church doesn’t believe it and I proved you wrong with a Church document SHOWING we DO believe it.

            Do not make a false claim against my Church and then tell me I can’t provide the documents to show you are wrong. I don’t care if you don’t like the catechism, it is only a book that contains all the official beliefs of the Catholic Church and where those beliefs come from. Anytime you tell me “your Church doesn’t believe so-and-so” I am going to prove you wrong with the appropriate documents. If you don’t like the facts, stop talking for a Church you know nothing about and I won’t have to keep correcting you about it.

            As far as ‘dunking’ goes, the only place I have seen that (and done that) is in Baptist churches.

            You play God when you declare “most Catholics are UNSAVED” – you have no idea who will be and who won’t be saved at the end of their life. THAT is when we know IF we are saved or not. Until then we HOPE we will be saved and we live our life TO be saved (if we are practicing our Christian faith by following Christ). We are not judged until we are dead. Until then we are ‘working out our salvation” as Saint Paul says in Philippians 2:12.

            You completely ignored the scriptures I gave you proving that Jesus tells us people CAN and DO lose their salvation (John 15:5-7) so I will give you TWO MORE proofs.

            John 6:66 – disciples walking away and leaving Jesus because they refused to accept his teaching on the Eucharist.
            Rev.3:5 – the Book of Life records the same names will be BLOTTED OUT of the book. That means they were written in it, then lost their salvation. Hence proving John 15 about some of the branches [believers] being cut off the Vine [Jesus] and tossed into the fire [Hell].

            Don’t be fooled by a johnny come lately theology Mike, salvation CAN be lost according to the Bible. The only way to KEEP your salvation is to do what Saint Paul said in Philippians 2:12 – “work out your salvation in fear and trembling”.

            IF you persevere to the moment of your death, THEN you will know you ARE saved. Until then you don’t know, you have HOPE in your salvation.

            In Christ,

            Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

          • Michael Kocian

            Mike Feehan, please do take me up on the offer I made to give you $10,000 if you can prove the Catholic Church is false.

          • http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/ CT Catholic Corner

            No one has to pray the rosary. The rosary merely meditates on the Scriptures (Glorious Mysteries, Sorrowful etc)- that is the point of that prayer. If you don’t want to pray it, don’t.

            Again, Confession is in the Bible: John 20:22-23, Matthew 16:19.

            It is Protestant denominations that are ‘man-made’- that is what Jesus warned you about. The Catholic Church was created BY Jesus Christ over 2,000 years ago. The protestant reformation came about over 1,500 years later and was created by MEN: Luther, Wesley, Zwingli, Knox, Calvin etc. These are the people Jesus warned you about who would start MAN MADE religions.

            In Christ,

            Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

          • Michael Kocian

            Mike Feehan, correction. You don’t believe what the Bible says…, you believe what you (mis)interpret the Bible to say. The Bible doesn’t “say” anything, as it can’t teach it’s own truths. It requires an infallible teacher. That infallible teacher is the same one who authored the New Testament, The Holy Spirit and select Catholic men (today, the ordained Magisterium).

          • Mike Feehan

            No, the Bible WAS NOT, NOT WRITTEN BY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH….OUTRIGHT CRAP SO DROP IT…

          • Jim Boyd

            LOOK WHAT BEADS DID FOR THE INDIANS

          • Kasoy

            Here is an explanation to answer your questions:

            When Adam sinned and lost grace, the “doors” of heaven closed. Even the holy patriarchs (Abraham, Noah, Moses, etc.) could not enter heaven before Christ died on the cross. The malice of sin is infinite as it is done against an infinite Being. Its penalty needs to be infinite. So no matter how much good one did or how faithfully one followed God’s laws (before Christ’s death), man could not enter heaven.

            To pay for the penalty of sin either:
            1- man needs to be punished either with infinite intensity (impossible for man) or with infinite duration (ie, hell); OR
            2- (the option chosen by God since He wants man to be saved) Christ, an infinite Being Himself being the 2nd Person of the Trinity, suffered on behalf of man. Since Christ is God in nature (infinite nature), His suffering is sufficient to pay for the infinite malice of sin.

            After Christ died on the cross, the “doors” of heaven are opened – God is now inviting all men to enter. But man continues to have his free will – he may or may not accept God’s invitation. The only way man can show God that he has accepted His invitation is to follow God’s laws and to do good works. (Parable of the Wedding Feast – all are invited, but few accept and go)

            There is another point. Man cannot by his own power be able to do good and follow God’s laws. He needs grace from God. Grace is an inspiration and power from God that enables man to do the good he ought to do EVERY MOMENT of his life. Grace is always God’s gift. It is given to all (good and bad) – as the rains fall on both the good and bad. Man only needs to accept God’s grace to do good. He can, however, freely refuse His grace, and do what is evil. This is what is meant by being saved by grace. Good works result from God’s grace (a free gift). This is where the confusion happens. Are we saved by grace or by good works? We cannot do any good work without grace. So it is correct to say we are saved by grace, but only IF we accept grace to do good works. So it is also correct to say that we need to do good works to be saved.

            The thief on the cross had what we call “perfect contrition” which allowed him to enter heaven as soon as he died. Without perfect contrition, man either goes to hell (with unrepented mortal sin) or purgatory (imperfect contrition for sins).

            Perfect contrition is being sorry for sins because we offended a loving God – it is borne out of shame for our ingratitude. (go to heaven immediately)

            Imperfect contrition is being sorry for sins because we fear hell and/or fear the loss of heaven. (passes through purgatory) Note: there is still that tinge of self-love here

            Unrepentance is not being sorry for our sins. (go to hell)

            Yes, man is saved by Christ’s death, but man needs accept God’s grace to do good in order to show God that he accepts His invitation to enter His “wedding feast”.

          • ME

            What you think you know, does not hold up to the truth. You haven’t read what the Pope says in context and are apparently getting a lot more of your information from questionable sources. If you’re going to study what the church teaches, are you actually reading the Catechism and the official teachings of the church, or are you reading the Protestant versions of such which are biased for their own sake.

          • Mike Feehan

            Why would I give a DARN about what some Pope says??? The same Pope that said that atheists can go to heaven??? No, genius, I take it DIRECTLY from the Word of God….Throw the darn Catechsim out…I just study from the Holy Word of God, THE BIBLE…..Something that most Catholics have NO CLUE about…I don’t GIVE A DARN about the official teachings of your weak Church….Why should I??? I give a darn about what the Bible says…What a Catholic freak you are….Get lost with that weak church….Been there, done that….NEVER AGAIN…

          • SoDakCatholic

            you don’t even know the Word of God better than you. I think you need to take a tranquilizer before you explode off this page.

          • Darren Szwajkowski

            Mike,

            It is sad what some priests have done. I would like to point out the fact that there is a higher percentage of abuse by other religious leaders than priests? Why is this never discussed? The devil knows which faith is true and he will attack that as much as he can? So, which faith had been attacked so much? Food for thought.

            Purgatory. You will not find it in the Bible that you read. It was taken out because it was an inconvenience. Here’s a fact for you. When King James was alive, the “King James Bible” had all 73 books. Yes, all of them. It was only after King James died that the Bible was remade by getting rid of books that some people personally did not like.

            I would like to point out from 2 Peter 20 – “Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation.”

            Both Calvin and Luther did what the Bible said not to do. They privately interpreted the Bible.

            And no, it is not by works, that one is saved. It is neither just by faith. They work together through the Grace of God. None of us are worthy. It is through the Mercy of God that we are saved.

          • Michael Kocian

            Mike Feehan, if you did actually know what Scriptures teach and if you love God above yourself, you would want to be Catholic. Please review my offer to give you $10,000 if you can prove Catholicism false.

          • Mike Feehan

            I DO KNOW Scripture and I DO KNOW that my Holy Father is JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF, NOT SOME JOKE POPE. I also know that I DO NOT pray to saints and I also do know that I DO NOT pray vain repititions like your Rosary…I GOT THE HELL OUT OF THAT FALSE RELIGION CRAP YEARS AGO AND YOU COULD NOT PAY ME ENOUGH TO GO BACK…Now, go back to your false religion which states that one has to WORK AND WORK AND WORK to get to heaven and one that states that ONE CANNOT know that they have eternal life….Your Pope is a JOKE….Did you know that outside of the Catholic Church, everyone GOES TO HELL…..WHAT A BUNCH OF ABSOLUTE GARBAGE…

          • Jim Boyd

            MICKY…YOU NEVER SENT ME YOUR FINANCIAL STATEMENT….AND YOU OFFERED ME $100,000.

          • Jim Boyd

            SOME LIKE LITTLE GIRLS….MIKE ARE YOU BORN AGAIN?
            KEEP DOING IT…TILL YOU GET IT RIGHT!

          • Mike Feehan

            Born again follower of Jesus Christ here…Actually know the Gospel unlike 99% of Catholics….Most Catholics that I know are weak, biblically illiterate and NOT SAVED…They go to church once per week and hear some weak priest get up there and give a fifteen minute homily about a whole bunch of nothing and think that because they live a “good life”, whatever the hell that is, that they will make it into heaven….Where is that in the Bible??? Just like with the Rosary, Purgatory, Mary, they make this shit up as they go. I am a born again follower of Jesus Christ….You are a typical weak unsaved Catholic…Deal with it…

      • Darren Szwajkowski

        Mike,

        We are all fallen. All Christians. I am greatful that the Holy Spirit has kept you believing in Jesus Christ as our Savior. There is a reason that the Holy Spirit has allowed Protestantism. If it were not for my neighbor Baptists, I would not have delved into my Catholic faith as I have.

        Yes, I would agree that a lot of Catholics do not know the Bible. I would, on the other hand, say my fellow Protestant brothers and sisters do not interpret the Bible correctly. Did not Christ give authority to His Apostles to forgive sins? Did not Christ build His Church on Peter? Did God leave us orphans? Of course not. He gave us successors to Peter in all the popes that followed Him

        Did Christ not say “this is My Body and Blood? Is this really His Body and Blood or a symbol? How do you know for sure? Whose interpretation is truth? Do you know there is a host that is from the 7th or 8th century in Italy that turned from bread to physically heart tissue? The wine turned into actual blood? There are many miracles such as these and one that I learned was investigated by the Holy Father, Pope Francis, when he was Archbishop in Argentina.

        The Catechism helps one to understand the Bible and how it pertains to our current lives. The Bible is written by another culture and thousands. How are you sure on its interpretation?

        Please read “By What Authority” by Mark Shea. Read G. K. Chesterton’s “Orthodoxy” or any of his writings. My favorite is “Manalive”.

        Catholicism holds the “Fullness” of the Christian faith. God does not change. When a faith’s doctrine has changed, it has changed God and is not therefore completely true.

        Please visit http://www.catholicscomehome.com

        “The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried” – G.K. Chesterton

        Our Lady of Snows, pray for us.

      • Michael Kocian

        Mike Feehan, I’ll give you $10,000 if you can prove the Catholic Church is false, by proving just one dogma or sacrament is false. To keep you honest, or at least make false attempts a little more painful, you will have to agree to pay $100 to God’s Catholic Church for each and every failed attempt you make.

        See, I want you to dig a little deeper to examine the things you claim…

        Next, since the Catholic Church authored the New Testament from her oral teachings, I’m going with the rationale that we Catholics who are faithful to the Magisterium and Tradition of interpretation do know what it means, and what it does not mean.

        • Mike Feehan

          First, Purgatory is bullshit. Praying to saints is bullshit. Going before a priest is bullshit. Is that enough for you GENUS??? SO GLAD I GOT THE HELL OUT OF THAT CHURCH…MOST FOLKS IN THAT CHURCH ARE NOT BORN AGAIN AND NOT SAVED, DO NOT KID YOURSELF….I HAVE FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE OF MANY CLUELESS CATHOLICS….

          • Jim Boyd

            BORN AGAIN…NEXT TIME MAKE IT A STILL BIRTH

          • Mike Feehan

            If you were REALLY HEARING the gospel as I do, you would know that one has to be born again as I am to make it into heaven….Going to church once a week and most likely hearing a weak priest give a fifteen minute homily and then considering yourself a good person, WHATEVER THE HELL THAT IS, CERTAINLY NOT BIBLICAL, is not going to cut it. Most Catholics are biblically illiterate, think that they have to work their way into heaven, and are UNSAVED….I have been on both sides of the fence, Catholicism and the Protestant side, and there is no comparision, NONE, concerning the knowledge or LACK THEREOF of Catholics versus Protestants. It is like night and day.

          • Jim Boyd

            GET A NEW HEARING AID…THE ONE YOU HAVE IS PICKING UP WEIRED SIGNALS

          • Mike Feehan

            Learn how to spell..

          • Jim Boyd

            GEEESUS LOVEES YOUS

          • Jim Boyd

            SHEES REALLLLY DOEES

          • Mike Feehan

            I know he does. I am one of his children, UNLIKE you. I am born again, UNLIKE you..

          • Jim Boyd

            MICKY….PUT ON YOUR BIG EARS….READ THE GOOD BOOK….MOTHER GOOSE…..

      • Michael Kocian

        Mike Feehan, no one ever left Catholicism because they actually did know what the Scriptures mean. Normally, those who do find out what Scriptures teach tend to then leave Protestantism.

        • Mike Feehan

          NOONE is ever taught the Scriptures in the Catholic Church…..People LEAVE the Catholic Church cult because they are NOT taught the true Gospel of Jesus Christ….They want CHRISTIANITY, NOT RELIGION…

  • John Flaherty

    For me, this article makes not a lick of sense.
    So, for the Global South, Protestantism is very much on the mind. OK. So, …you mean to say that Protestant attitudes are NOT on the mind in the North? I wish the US, Europe, and Southeast Asia were as distinctively Catholic as that implies.

    So, Vatican II made the Church more Protestant, or so you say.
    I can’t agree. I thought I grew up Catholic. Then, around my mid-20’s, I began re-learning what I thought I had learned as a teen. I wound up being shocked many times by what all I DIDN’T learn about Catholic faith. Trouble is, most of what I learned of faith comes from some ill-defined “Spirit of Vatican II”, not Vatican II itself.

    I wish the faithful, bishops included, would be bothered to follow Vatican II. I don’t see the Church becoming more Protestant in time and becoming a greater voice in the world as a result. No, if anything, I see Catholics and Protestants slowly coming to embrace more of the Church’s actual teaching and practice as time goes on.

    Protestantism is based on fundamentally flawed ideas that can’t be reconciled with the Bible in the manner that Catholic faith can. This makes sense. Catholics compiled the Bible in the first place,
    If more traditional presentations of Catholic faith have been struggling these past few decades, well, what’s new? Holy, Mother Church has been through this before.

    One other thing: Emphasizing a community meal for the Eucharist won’t bring people back over the long term. If I’m simply going to a social club to hear a few nice words and a paltry meal, I’ll be gone in weeks.
    But if I’m going to meet with God, my Father, I’ll be there regardless of the scandals that I or others may inflict. We’re not there for a town hall meeting or a pot luck dinner. We’re there to meet with our Creator.

    HUGE difference!

    • AugustineThomas

      Go to a Latin Mass. The heretics of the Church go to Novus Ordo. (There are some reverent Novus Ordo Masses, but it’s only about 1-5% of them. Almost 100% of Latin Masses are reverent and show what the faith actually means–which is a lot more than a Protestant social club.)

      • John Flaherty

        For my understanding, my current pastor will soon be coming up on 12 years at this parish, thus “needing” to be reassigned. Beings that my parish seems to me one of those 1-5% of reverent Novus Ordo parishes, I may ultimately be required to switch to the FSSP parish farther south.
        I haven’t done so already mostly because I detest “parish-shopping” and had discovered my current parish about 6 months before Summorum Pontificum came about.

        • http://www.latinmasser.blogspot.com/ Nate C

          I spend a lot of time encouraging people to embrace the Latin Mass because of the deep spiritual impact it had in my life. I encourage you to make the switch as soon as you can. I recently had a brief discussion with a Catholic gentleman at my parish who prefers the Novus Ordo, but only because he was familiar with it and comfortable. When I presented what I considered deficiencies not found in the TLM his facial expression said it all; big frown. Just think if he was willing to dedicate even 1 month to the TLM, to actually assist in praying the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass in union with the priest and laity, actually using a missal to follow a long and assist his prayer effort?

    • tom bordeau

      The heart of this article is about the protestant-izing of the church. At least he hopes! Who was most happiest to see the council turn out the way that it did? Communists, freemasons, protestants, jews etc.
      What has been and still the goal of these org.? I’ll hazard a guess – the destruction of Christ’s Bride.
      The council has obviously has been used as a major stepping stone to the next level– an ecumenically accepted world-wide church to embrace all peoples. The masons understood they could not place a true mason in the chair of peter so went about it another way- a council. Read Alta Vendita.

  • John Flaherty

    BTW, I followed one of your links to your article from April.
    If people need to hear about God’s insanely incredible love for them, they also need to hear about how they’re ability to respond to that love is inherently undermined by sin.
    If they need to hear about God’s love, they also need to hear about repentance.
    Nobody needs to become a Protestant of any stripe, they need to learn to follow Catholic faith more fully.

  • AugustineThomas

    Your heretical churches are always divided, not only against the Church, but also against each other and they don’t preserve the sacramental nature of the True Faith. You continually break Christ’s commandment for unity. He never spoke of his 40,000 warring Protestant churches, he spoke of his one Universal, and Apostolic Church.
    You can keep dreaming, but Protestantism will always be the easy “church”, that is more a social club to get you ready for Jesus. When people want the real faith, they become orthodox Christians (“Catholics”) and take the sacraments.
    God bless you though! I pray you guys rejoin the Church and stop with your heresy!

    • http://pegobry.tumblr.com/ Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry

      Thanks! For the record, I am indeed a member of the one true Church.

  • Falcon 78

    Mr Gobry writes, “As I’ve written before, Catholics must affirm salvation by faith alone. Yes, it is a faith that is not mere doctrinal assent, it is a faith that is the indwelling of Jesus Christ by the Spirit which transforms us–the sanctifying grace that Trent so rightly talks about–and equips us for good works, but it is a salvation by sheer grace, through Christ alone.”
    Mr Gobry needs to attend our current class at our Parish being given on Saint Thomas Aquinas’ Summa, in the discussion of Part II of the Summa, and each individual’s responsibility for their actions. Oh, yes, grace is surely given to assist us, but we each are ultimately responsible for our actions and our choices. It is a choice to choose the path revealed to us by God, and further given to us by Jesus, to lead us back to God. It is the reason we will stand in judgment before God to account for our actions and choices. The 13th century Dominican has it right. Mr Gobry, the 21st century blogger needs to listen.

    • Dan13

      How is PEG wrong? We aren’t Pelagians, after all.

    • http://pegobry.tumblr.com/ Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry

      I don’t disagree with that at all. Neither does the Vatican’s JDDJ; neither did Pope Benedict XVI when he said Catholics can affirm salvation by faith as long as the virtue of faith is not put in opposition with the virtue of love.

  • catholicguy

    There is no such thing as a protestant “church.” Christ founded one visible Church. You reject His Church, therefore reject Christ Himself.

    Luke 10:16
    “He that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me”

    May God convert you before you die outside the Ark of salvation.

  • DOTCOM_MOM

    Protestantism was created by a human being. HE, Martin Luther, a catholic monk, PROTESTED against the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church was founded by Christ Himself. Regardless of how similar Catholic Churches are looking & sounding these days to Protestant Churches, Our Blessed Lord could not have been clearer when He said in Matthew 16:18: “And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.”

    • Metal

      Christ founded Christianity, Rome invented Catholicism and Germany invented Protestantism, Orthodoxy keeps with Jesus and god itself. As a baptised catholic I dare say Orthodoxy united Rus, Serbia and Greece in bad times while the Vatican stabbed Ireland in the back during its bad times. Only Spain tried to help at no avail but the Catholic Church was not united since it’s conception and probably never will be until Christ straightens up the church. As for Protestantism it needs to let go of its Germanic pagan heresy and return back to Christian Orthodoxy.

      • http://pegobry.tumblr.com/ Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry

        LOL

      • radiofreerome

        Christ founded Christianity, but he neglected to trademark the term “Christian.” Late 20th century American evangelicals corrected that mistake. They insist that the term belongs solely to them.

        • MainlineP

          Yes, to the chagrin of both you RC and we mainstream Protestants. I’ve noticed the secular media has also adopted that viewpoint as well, though probably more in ignorance than mendacity.

      • Michael Kocian

        Metal, a correction if you’re up for it… Christ founded a Church which He endowed with authority and protection from teaching error (gates of Hell will not prevail) to continue His rescue mission for mankind, teaching the word without error and administering the Sacraments, faithfully bringing Him to successive generations. In about 100 AD, this one Church started calling herself “Catholic”.

        Along the way, Satan has worked desperately to undo this rescue mission, and has made headway in some areas, such as reintroducing the fall of mankind (Pride to decide for yourself what God says rather than listen to Him), and one of these we call Protestantism. Satan is pleased to keep enough truth going in order to seduce simple minds leading them away from Christ with endorsing Contraception, same sex “marriage”, rejection of the Eucharist, etc.

        Sadly, Protestantism exists among many who call their selves Catholic, whom we refer to as “Cafeteria Catholics”.

    • http://pegobry.tumblr.com/ Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry

      I fully agree with this.

  • http://www.latinmasser.blogspot.com/ Nate C

    Much of V2 was corrupted by modernism and we see the bad fruit of mass apostasy from the One True Faith and the protestantization of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. The author rightly points how how V2 turned the focus away from God and more towards man just like protestantism. I agree, much of the Catholic Church is dying like protestantism for all the same reasons, but traditional Catholic parishes are full of large families who’s children are not being corrupted by compromise and relativism. The road to heaven is narrow and the path to perdition wide.. we need all the help we can get, thank God for the Catholic Church and for the 7 Sacraments instituted by Christ as a sign of His supreme majesty and mercy!

    • http://pegobry.tumblr.com/ Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry

      Glad to see the house of the Father has lots of older brothers faithfully hewing to the Law!

      • BotGregory

        The sun will shine brightly the day the last NuCatholic boomer shuffles off the mortal coil. I expect they will have a lot to answer for come judgment day.

  • Frank McManus

    PEG, I’d be very interested to hear you engage with the intense hostility you sometimes arouse. I don’t mean you should sink into the pit of mud-slinging that so often goes on in these comments. My question is: what do you think of this stuff? It seems so common here, and on Catholic blogs at Patheos generally. And it comes from a vision of Catholicism that I would suggest is fundamentally and seriously defective — it reduces the faith essentially to another ideology; it blindly embraces some of the worst aspects of modern rationalism while believing it consists of nothing but what Christ and the Church teach. And it is this sort of Catholicism that most people who reject Catholicism believe to be “the real thing” — just as most people who reject “Christianity” think that fundamentalist Protestantism is simply what “Christianity” is. And just like real fundamentalists, these right-wing Catholics are entirely convinced their religion is the only true religion; any way of seeing the faith that doesn’t immediately slot itself into certain pre-defined positions is “heresy.”

    Many people I’d call, tentatively and not without respect, moderate conservative Catholics, such as yourself, Robert Barron, and Elizabeth Scalia, don’t address this deeply ugly pseudo-Catholicism in the forthright way it deserves. That often seems to be because the primary dangers are often understood to be secular liberalism and/or liberal Catholicism. (Well, maybe this isn’t as true for you as it is for the others.) My view, as you can guess, is that it should be named explicitly as a false form of Catholicism and a betrayal of Jesus; I think it has great theological significance. But I’d like to know how you understand this phenomenon, if indeed you regard it as a distinct phenomenon at all.

    • Kasoy

      […just like real fundamentalists, these right-wing Catholics are entirely convinced their religion is the only true religion; any way of seeing the faith that doesn’t immediately slot itself into certain pre-defined positions is “heresy.”]

      Fundamentalists are wrong. They need to study the Church doctrines more carefully. The Catholic Church does not teach that only good Catholics can be saved. (CCC 847: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience – those too may achieve eternal salvation.)

      God is infinitely powerful and creative. He can and He will device infinitely numerous ways for man to be saved. As God allows the rains to fall on both the good and the bad, so will salvation be open to ALL – Catholic or not.

      Here is what Jesus revealed to Sis Josefa about those who do not belong to His Church:
      http://www.ecatholic2000.com/way/untitled.shtml

      [For each of these Jesus Christ has a word of love:
      I will speak in the first place to those who do not know Me:
      My sons, who from infancy have lived apart from your Father, come, I will tell you why you do not know Me . . . for once you realize the affection I bear you, you will not resist My love. It is often the case that those brought up far from their parents have little affection for them; but when by chance the sweet love of father or mother is manifested to them, there awakens a keener appreciation of this warm devotion than is found in those who have never left home.]

      This is what Paul called as the law of grace. Everyone (good and bad) is given grace – an inspiration, an invitation to do good which when accepted gives power and strength to do the good God wants.

      Grace is never merited by man – it is always a gift from God.

    • http://pegobry.tumblr.com/ Pascal-Emmanuel Gobry

      You’re absolutely right and I would agree with your comment 100%. You hit the nail on the head when you talk about viewing Catholicism as an ideology; this is, of course, on any orthodox reading, a form of idolatry, i.e. a major sin and a falling away from the faith.

      With regard to my addressing it, well, I do address it plenty when it comes up in the comments. (Sometimes I would rather just delete those comments.) And, indirectly, in my writing. Who else was I addressing when I wrote posts like these, for example? http://www.patheos.com/blogs/inebriateme/2014/04/zosima-zosima-zosima/ http://www.patheos.com/blogs/inebriateme/2014/04/homophobia-catholic-church/

      It is a major preoccupation of mine and I view it as a cancer of the Church and I feel like I write about it very often. But I also think that conversion is a gift of the Holy Spirit. Ultimately, what those people need is confession and prayer before the Blessed Sacrament (indeed, so do I).

      Thank you for your comment.

  • Andy
  • Agni Ashwin

    “Instead, Scripture is the heart of Tradition”.

    You might want to unpack this a bit. One can have Tradition without Scripture, but you can’t have Scripture without Tradition.

  • MainlineP

    Late to the comment box, as I don’t generally read Patheos, much less RC blogs. That said Mr. Gobry, I thank you for a substantially fair reading of Protestant Christianity and the impact we’ve had on your church. One slight disagreement, or perhaps qualification.

    I’m sure as a well read blogger you realize the breadth of Protestantism is far beyond, say, the differences in your camp between the RC Roman rite and the Melkites, in terms of diversity of worship and dogma. Some of the qualities you assign to Protestantism such as sola scriptura, and a low memorialist or receptionist view of the Eucharist are true for many evangelicals and Pentecostals but not for those of us in “high” church denominations. We do see sacraments as the outward signs of an inward and real life giving grace to enrich the soul. We do name our churches after saints, and memorialize their lives on feast days. We don’t look with disdain on ritual as long as it doesn’t suffocate. We do think that the writings of the early Fathers should be read and not just scripture. I’m sure you know this, but not all RC do.

    • BotGregory

      I still do not know why we are paying any attention to the devil’s bagpipes.

  • BotGregory

    Traitor.


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