The Infallible Faithful Conservative Catholic Anti-Charism of Discernment Marches On!

From the subculture that learned nothing from Maciel, circled the wagons for Euteneuer, backed unjust war and torture more ardently than the average American, defended Ayn Rand as Aristotle Redivivus, seriously believed that Romney was a Changed Man about abortion and somebody who cared about the HHS Mandate, attacked the bishop who investigated Corapi as a “satanic” member of a shadowy gay cabal out to wantonly destroy a Living Saint, moves in thundering herds to follow the demagogue who made that accusation, and manages to consistently believe the obviously incredible and false again and again, I give you Shoutin’ Bill Donohue of the Catholic League, managing to once again manifest the Anti-Charism of Discernment by defending a grotesque child abuser and pervert and learn (or at least admit nothing) from the whole thing.

Seriously, why does any conservative Catholic take this guy seriously?  He is the Pat Robertson of Catholicism.

  • Fiestamom

    What does being politically conservative have to do with it? I am a political conservative, but I never attacked the bishop who investigated Corapi. And I think Ratigan didn’t get enough punishment! I am not being a smart aleck, but I feel like you stopped treating Trads badly, and are now treating conservatives poorly.

    Political conservatives circled the wagons around Maciel? I just don’t see what the connection is. I do get your problem with McCain and Romney, I still voted for them, but I get where you are coming from. I am not a fan of Ayn Rand, but I understand why you are making that connection.

    Maybe I don’t know a bit of history about the examples you give, but this seems a reach. I read National Review and the Weekly Conservarive quite a bit, and don’t remember seeing any of the examples you are equating to conservatives. (As far as Euteneuer, Corapi, and Ratigan.)

    • Michelle

      Sigh. Not *politically* conservative; *religiously* conservative. Although lots of people who are religiously conservative are also politically conservative, there is a distinction to be made between the two.

      • chezami

        Just so.

      • Fiestamom

        Thanks for the ‘sigh’. It was a fair question since he’s the one who brought up McCain and Romney, and Rand. If he would have left it at Corapi, Euteneur, and Donahue, I would have gotten it. But thanks for the condescending sigh.

        • Newp Ort

          The butthurt is strong with this one.

          • Fiestamom

            Why say that?

            What is wrong with asking what supporters of McCain, Romney and Ayn Rand have to so with this topic.

            I thought it was a fair question, asked in a nice way. I still don’t have an answer, other than ‘just so’, and I have no idea what that means. Clearly,I am not as enlightened as Madame Sighs Alot, and you, Sir Butthurt.

            • Andy

              “conservative Catholic” does not mean political conservative. Our host is pointing out that Mr. Donohue seems to not always think through carefully what the church teaches when he opens his mouth.

              • AugustineThomas

                Just like every heretic, Nancy Pelosi catholic right?

                • Andy

                  AT – I don’t know what your issue is, however, I will say that you need to think about what the church teaches before launching your diatribes.

            • Newp Ort

              “Sir.” LOL. Thanks for the honorific but you don’t have to stand on ceremony with me, Partymama, Mr. Butthurt is fine.

              def : Butthurt is an online slang term used to describe a strongly negative or overemotional response. It is used to draw attention to a person who shows signs of being irritated due to a perceived insult, an unfavorable situation, or a lack of decent communication.

              as in “Thanks for the condescending sigh.”

              First of all click the tag THE FAITHFUL CONSERVATIVE[TM] CATHOLIC ANTI-CHARISM OF DISCERNMENT at the bottom of Mark’s post, you’ll see all his related posts and I’m sure he’ll get the point across better than I could.

              The problematic political conservative/ catholic conservative overlap is where conservative catholics falsely align politically conservative views and people with catholic theology and ethics.

              An example: saying catholics can only vote for Romney because he is pro-life, which then made it necessary to whitewash/ignore Romney’s (and Ryan’s) non-pro-life stances. In fact Romney version of ’12 election was not pro life, just MUCH closer to it than Obama.

              So Mark took issue with that point making a fine but important distinction: If you want to make a prudential decision to vote for Romney as a “damage control candidate” that’s fine, but don’t tell others they HAVE to vote for him or you are going against the faith.

              I get the impression you are not the discernment-free conservative he is criticizing.

              The Maciel/Corapi thing is somewhat in the same vein that there is knee-jerk rush by conservative catholics to defend anybody viewed as orthodox or conservative against any criticism, often before the facts are in, and often by demonizing the accusers.

              So come on, Fiestamom! Don’t be so butthurt next time! remember: INTERNET! (might help you to google “INTERNET IS SERIOUS BUSINESS”, or “lol, internet”. This can also be done analog by not taking yourself too seriously.)

          • AugustineThomas

            Satan is strong with this one..

            • http://a-star-of-hope.blogspot.com/ JoAnna Wahlund

              You have the power to determine the state of another’s soul? Funny, I thought only God could do that. Do you think you are like God?

  • bear

    By your reference to a demagogue, I assume the phone conversation you mentioned last week did not go so well? Unless you are referring to a different demagogue.

    • chezami

      It didn’t happen. Voris had to go out of town. We’ll talk today.

      • bear

        Good luck. I’ll pray for you.

  • John Barnes

    Except that Pat Robertson doesn’t have a penchant for shouting. The few times I listened to Donohue, he reminded me of an old man who can’t hear well and therefore doesn’t realize he’s yelling.

  • Doug

    BD lost me when he called abuse victims “gold-diggers.” When orthodox Catholic media refused to even acknowledge that, they lost me too.

    • James Scott

      He has never done that. He has called the oppotunistic jerks at SNAP “gold-diggers” & people who have “recovored memories” of being abused 30 years ago by a Priest who is conviently dead & can’t defend themselves. He has railed against laws that revoke the statue of limitation for abuse in regards to religious & private institutions but exampt public schools. Like it or not a whole cottage industry is springing up to use these scandels to make a buck.

      This is like calling somebody a racist for calling Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson race huckters.

      Not acknowledging that is lost on me as well.

  • Robert Harris

    “He is the Pat Robertson of Catholicism.”

    Oh my gosh. You’re a genius (well, that was obvious, but it bore re-emphasizing upon seeing that).

  • Dave G.

    “why does any conservative Catholic take this guy seriously”

    Probably for the same reason people take anyone seriously: they agree with him more often than they disagree. Or they may not like his style, but they dislike what he is against more. Or they like his style. Or they excuse his style because they think he is accomplishing something more important. Or they think he is right. Why, the reasons are legion, or they are many. Just like why people like anyone or take anyone seriously, when those standing outside of a particular circle can only shake their heads and wonder. Fact is, for anyone out there (well, almost anyone), there is someone wondering why anyone would take him or her seriously.

    FWIW, I was unable to find the link to his quotes. The article kept linking to other articles by the same blogger saying what he said. I doubt it was too far off the mark, but still. Before I say too much I like to pause and do some digging myself. Just didn’t have time today.

  • robw

    Stop putting people in boxes Mark. You can write about radical “faithful conservatives” all you want…no clear thinking person changes their view because of what some divisive blogger writes. Why not do a column on why only 30 percent of Catholics believe in the real presence. Thats 70 percent who don’t…a MUCH bigger number than the “holocaust denying” trads. And you attacking Donohue doesn’t negate the interview with Fr. Apostoli…it was a good one and a lot of people seen it and liked it…and no matter what you write you’re not changing anybody’s mind. Fr. Apostoli likes Bill as well…ill trust him a better judge of character than you…sorry :)

    • robw

      Are you mad because EWTN didnt interview you on Sunday Night Prime?? Maybe if you didn’t put people in little neat boxes and be so mean spirited sometimes they would. BTW…have you prayed for Fr. Corapi and Fr. Euteneuer?? And why do you delete comments and prevent people who disagree with you from commenting? I thought you were all about democracy and the American way?

      • chezami

        EWTN has interviewed me many times. I write for EWTN. Don’t be dumb.

        • AugustineThomas

          I’ve heard EWTN is in danger of being taken over by heretics since Mother Angelica hasn’t been leading the show.

          • chezami

            Why do you believe such silly rumors?

  • Fallen Catholic

    Here’s a wakeup call. The world is dull of miserable failing human beings, the sign of the fall. You are supposed to pray for them. Pray for me, I’m a fallen away Catholic having a hard time keeping my faith. Although baptized, the woundedness of a divorce between my parents, and the onset of ills and abuses from them, which I’m partly culpable for, has been strenouos for me in my faith through its’ ups and downs. Each soul bares a cross, and each person suffers in some way. When you see the woundedness there, immediately pray for that person, that soul. Have mercy. There’s no way we can complain about fallen individuals, and the scandals they cause, when the first and foremost of our gestures, our actions forfeit and neglect mercy for a sinner. Our job isn’t to confirm these people in their sins by the absence of mercy. If we participate in any further scandal than that of the particular person who has committed any sin, and particularly a grave one, we are only a participant in that person’s sins, and their plight in continuing to do so, by hardening thier hearts, and sealing sin into their convictions by our faith and witness absent of God’s mercy, love, and charity. It is done through the merits of mercy and love that justice is done through a truly repentant sinner. That’s our duty and love as Catholic fairhful men.

    • AugustineThomas

      You don’t seem fallen.

      You seem to be doubting, like St. Thomas the Apostle.

  • jeff

    Siiigh… come on. As soon as +Finn realised Ratigan had child porn HE contacted the police.

  • AugustineThomas

    Mark Shea is a Nancy Pelosi Catholic.

    You’re not half the man Donahue is. You’re too cowardly to defend the faith like him. You seem to be yet another closet leftist infiltrating the Church to “save it” from orthodoxy.

    • chezami

      I believe all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims is revealed by God.

      You should repent the false witness you have borne. Will you, or will you just go on spreading this absolutely baseless lie?

      • AugustineThomas

        Hypocrite.

        I ask for forgiveness several times a day.

        Lord please forgive me if I’ve judged Mark Shea.. I know that only you can judge him and forgive me if, while trying to show Mark his own hypocrisy, I’ve slipped into any type of hatred!

        O my God,
        I am heartily sorry for
        having offended Thee,
        and I detest all my sins,
        because I dread the loss of heaven,
        and the pains of hell;
        but most of all because
        they offend Thee, my God,
        Who are all good and
        deserving of all my love.
        I firmly resolve,
        with the help of Thy grace,
        to confess my sins,
        to do penance,
        and to amend my life.

        Amen.

      • AugustineThomas

        Now will you say the Act of Contrition? Or will you continue to pretend that you haven’t done at least the equivalent to calling men heretics unjustly?
        Is it less a sin if you just don’t say the word heretic?

        By the way, in my defense, I’m almost positive you really were being a heretic. I was not doing that over these last few days. I said that it’s ridiculous to suggest that people who attend the Latin Mass somehow aren’t as Catholic as you Novus Ordo folk–who often tend to be proud of showing off your diverse heresies.

        I don’t think you guys are used to people who attend the Latin Mass standing up to you, which is why it ruffles your feathers so severely.

        I think you’re like leftists with Christians–and since they don’t speak up enough, you start to believe you’re right about everything.

        Mark Shea talks a lot more about himself being right than about Jesus Christ our Lord being right.. Forgive me if I lack sufficient intellect or wisdom to convince him to recognize his heresies. I’m not afraid to admit that I’ve been a heretic at many points in my life–I just don’t get my feelings hurt over it and I don’t pretend that someone pointing out my heresy is a worse sin than baby murder.

    • http://a-star-of-hope.blogspot.com/ JoAnna Wahlund

      Bearing false witness against your neighbor is a sin, AugustineThomas. You’d think someone who claims to be a faithful Catholic would know that.

      • AugustineThomas

        Did you tell Mark Shea about bearing false witness against our brother Bill Donahue?
        You guys are ashamed of true Catholicism, which is why you are ashamed when Bill Donahue “gets all loud mouth” about it.. Many of the saints may have “gotten too loud mouth” about Catholicism for your tastes as well.

        • wineinthewater

          I’m ashamed of Bill Donahue because he rants about gays and Jews and sees everything as an attack on the Church. I’m ashamed of him because his antics make it much more difficult to spread the Gospel to people who think that his brand of crazy represents the Church.

          The Church is surely being attacked every day, but his cry wolf approach makes it all the more difficult to get people to take the real attacks seriously.

  • Kirt Higdon

    The lead-in remarks strike me as putting a lot of people in the same bag because they may disagree with the author on some and in a few cases all of a range of issues. Criticize a bishop and you’re anti-discernment, defend one and you’re also anti-discernment. Same with politicians. I also tend to think that people who disagree with me lack discernment, but then again maybe I’m the one who is lacking.

    Kirt Higdon

  • Eve Fisher

    What we desperately need is a way to find out the background of the priests in our parishes. Out here in the hinterlands, i.e., the rural Midwest, priests come and go on a rotating basis – and the current priest, who arrived a few months ago, is raising suspicions that he was sent here because he “did something” somewhere else. And yet there’s no way for us to find out. This is what makes people crazy…
    Is there such a thing as a sex-offender registry for priests?

    • Dale

      I am not sure if there is a sex offender registry for priests, but there is a national sex offender registry for the general public. And it is searchable online.
      http://www.nsopr.gov/en-US/Home/About

      The limitation, of course, is that he would have to be convicted as a sex offender and, as part of his sentence, be required to register as one.

  • DMReed

    Shea,
    your Strawman argument is beneath you.
    Create the Strawman-
    “From the subculture that learned nothing from Maciel, circled the wagons for Euteneuer, backed unjust war and torture more ardently than the average American, defended Ayn Rand as Aristotle Redivivus, seriously believed that Romney was a Changed Man about abortion and somebody who cared about the HHS Mandate, attacked the bishop who investigated Corapi as a “satanic” member of a shadowy gay cabal out to wantonly destroy a Living Saint, moves in thundering herds to follow the demagogue who made that accusation, and manages to consistently believe the obviously incredible and false again and again…”
    Then pat yourself on the back for your reasonableness and send a prayer to the Almighty thanking Him for having not made you a hysterical nut like the Strawmen you built.
    Nice…


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