Dating in a #MeToo World

Dating in a #MeToo World March 13, 2018

Dating in a #MeToo World

“Hey, beautiful.”

I scowled at my phone.

Another day, another cut and paste come on.

I picked up my phone and wrote back:

“Ah!  The common effluvia of the disinterested salutation.”

A few minutes passed.

From the stranger: “So, what u up to?”

I didn’t respond.

The Problem of Dating in a World of Disconnect

As far too many before me have lamented (seriously, check out Verily’s whole dating section), trying to make a meaningful connection in a world of dating apps is difficult.  On Bumble I found more men just looking for a hook-up, despite the app touting itself as the feminist option.  Coffee Meets Bagel actually managed to land a single phone date, and a few not-hideous conversations, while giving me a feeling of safety from the real creeps out there.  Even Tinder has switched from being the skeevy no-man’s land to a way to message prospective beaus…or rather, swipe right, and then mutually ghost.

The problem, of course, is that we cannot encounter the full person through an app.  Whether dating, or just stalking your on-line hero (Hiya, Rebecca Bratten Weiss!), we know that the carefully curated snippet of photos, quotes, and curios barely indicate at the person within.

Having worked with teenagers for ten years, mentoring and teaching, I know that I’ve purposely curated a more transparent view of my personhood on-line.  (Because teens can smell hypocrisy a mile away.)  However, the deepest parts of me are not on display.  As is true for any person.  And the fun of getting to know another person via app is in many ways taken out, categorized, and boxed in this iLife.

What Big Eyes You Have

So what’s so “wrong” about telling a girl she’s pretty?  I mean, what else should you say when you’re trying to approach a woman?  Well, as with all words,  it depends on context.  Two men can compliment my looks, and in one it’s sexual harassment, and in another – as you’ll read later – it’s romantic.

What’s a guy to do?  Let me break it down for you.

If you know me, and have verbally admired more than just my looks, then by all means add to the list of compliments about my beauty.  Do you know me, and know that I’m having a rotten self-esteem day, or I’m trying on a new eye shadow regime, or I’m struggling to regrow my hair?  Then, if you know me, by all means compliment my clothes, my make-up, my hair, myself.

But in all these contexts: you know me.

With dating apps, although several attempt to give deeper conversational spring boards, so many men begin with “Hey, beautiful.” Which, given the nature of the go-fish set-up of the app, is a signal that the fellow on the other end has copied and pasted that exact sentiment to every single match.  Which means that he can’t be bothered to see what your name is and use it.  By using “Hey, beautiful,” the most fundamental acknowledgement of the other person – that is, the woman’s name – is dismissed.

What is lacking in dating apps, if I may modify Lewis’ Till We Have Faces:

“When the time comes to you at which you will be forced at last to utter the speech which has lain at the center of your soul for years, which you have, all that time, idiot-like, been saying over and over, you’ll not talk about the joy of words. I saw well why the women on dating apps do not speak to us openly, nor let us answer. Till that word can be dug out of us, why should they hear the babble that we think we mean? How can they meet us face to face till we have faces?”

Coming off the heels of #MeToo, such lingual objectification is disheartening to say the least.  And the desire to opt out of the “idiot-like babble” is strong.  But there’s another form of objectification on the other side of the Tiber, too.

More Than Just a Check-Mark

Last year, while lamenting via Facebook about the state of dating, a household brother from Steubenville chided me to stop dating secular men and to only pursue Catholic men.  (More on this in a moment.)  A few months later, while writing about toxic vs.  positive masculinity, I received several unsolicited notes from my Catholic male readership – all strangers – telling me in various ways that I had a duty as a Catholic women to let Catholic men pursue me, whether I was interested or no, and that I would be happier if only I would shut up, return to my (theoretical) babies, and get in the kitchen (actual quote).

My experience on Catholic Match, there’s an expectation that a “virtuous wife” is one who will want to stay at home, raise and homeschool a passel of kids, move to wherever her man is, and probably wear a mantilla.  Now, half my household sisters were called to just such a vocation.  This is their theodrama.  But it does not necessarily follow that this is the only theodrama.  It is an ideation; not an actuality.

At the time, I hadn’t the language to explain why this attitude of advertising for meek and Marian (and fertile) wives, as though this were settling the wild west times, which I have found prevalent among many Catholic single acquaintances is just as rapey, just as domineering as the leering guy on Bumble who’s hoping I want to hook up with him.

To both groups of men, I – as a single woman – am a commodity.  Not a person. 

I am a series of check marks.  To the man looking for a hook-up, I am a pair of breasts, a rump, a piece of meat.  The Catholic man does looks inside, but no further than my uterus.  Neither group sees me.

And it’s more difficult to explain to my fellow Catholic why his virtue-signalling is so demeaning.  Because, after all, marriage is a beautiful vocation, and children are a blessing.  But go back to your Love and Responsibility: love is only love in the particular.  Love of the other as other.  Not in the checkmark idealization, the fetishization of the sacrament as salvation in itself.

The Emotional Chastity Belt

In regards to my well-meaning but misinformed household brother, nearly all the men I’ve dated I met in real life and were Catholic.

Among those Catholic beaus, though, there was a mildness which went far beyond gentility and round the corner to the same juvenile underpinnings of the selfishness of the hook-up, and the selfishness of wanting any virtuous womb with a view.  (Check out Eye of the Tiber for spot-on hilarity about this.)

In this childish manifestation, common among good, Catholic men, there’s such a timidity born, I think, from being too sheltered as so many of us were.  In this iteration, dates are asked for, accepted, and then downgraded to an endless round of “hanging out.”  Embraces are initiated, and then fumbled: never to be repeated or perfected.  There is no confidence…

…except when it comes to matters of specific knowledge.  The enthusiasm others might reserve for video games, programming, sports, or whatever one’s passion might be, is manifested in chapter and verse of Belloc.  Which is all very well in theory, but the relationship then remains in theory.  So many Catholic gentlemen (and women – probably myself included) are so respectful, they remain as much a cipher in real life as they may do on-screen.

At a Love and Responsibility lecture I attended a few years ago here in New York City, we were enjoined to remain “emotionally chaste” – which I think may be one of the most damaging sentiments I have ever heard. And in direct contradiction to our dear old Lewis, who described love this way:

“To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything and your heart will be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact you must give it to no one, not even an animal. Wrap it carefully round with hobbies and little luxuries; avoid all entanglements. Lock it up safe in the casket or coffin of your selfishness. But in that casket, safe, dark, motionless, airless, it will change. It will not be broken; it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable. To love is to be vulnerable.”

So how do we do that?  How do we escape the app, the hook-ups, the hang-outs, the fantasies, the timidity?

The answer: we need to really see each other.  And let ourselves be seen.

The Language of Love

The most beautiful love letter I ever received, the most significant romantic relationship I’ve had to date, was with a man who would call himself an ex-Catholic, a liberal, an extreme feminist…a lot of things I’m not.  (There are also significant reasons why we’re not together.)  He was also mind-blowingly generous, and kind, and curious, and supportive, and inventive, (and sexy) – and most of all, he took the time to see.

This is what he wrote, after a year of knowing each other:

Hey, dear,

I just wanted to say thank you. For coming over yesterday and sharing more of yourself than you usually do. I hope you know, in your heart of hearts, how much I truly value you and your friendship; exactly as delightfully strange and boisterous and beautiful and gracious and graceful and insightful and supportive and courageous and omni-talented and black-vortexy and vulnerable as you – uniquely you – always are.

What makes me lose my breath, even years later, even after the heartbreak and the distance and the indifference that naturally grows when you grow apart, is the specificity.  Strangeness is delightful.  Boisterousness enhances beauty.  Here is not one impersonal compliment, one single hollow “hey beautiful” (this was actually the first time he used that word; we were both poets: words were important).  Here is not one dictation of what my future will be, whether I want the same future or not.  Here is no timidity: he felt it, the words were true, he told me.  And he knew me well enough by then to know that, in all my brokenness, I was in a place to receive them.

I wish for everyone that people in their lives know them well enough to conclude every sentiment with “you – uniquely you.”

Out of the App Trap

I don’t think we’re doomed – no matter whether we’re Catholic or secular or whatnot – to remain solitary and on-line presentative forever.  Great friendships, great mentorships, great partnerships develop along similar lines of “getting to know you – uniquely you.”  So can our romances mirror the Romance.

The challenge is how to do we open up?  How do we see each other face to face?  How do we gain faces?

______

Photo courtesy of Pixabay.

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  • Ancalagon

    “So what’s so “wrong” about telling a girl she’s pretty? I mean, what else should you say when you’re trying to approach a woman? Well, as with all words, it depends on context. Two men can compliment my looks, and in one it’s sexual harassment, and in another – as you’ll read later – it’s romantic.”

    The same words can be romantic and a crime based on my own subjective feelings about the person who says them.

    Ah, the feminine enigma!

    In reality, “You’re pretty,” is harassment if you aren’t attracted to the man who says it. The whole “If you know me” thing is just a proxy for how comfortable you are around the man; if he’s attractive to you, though, the compliment *will* make you comfortable, or thrilled, regardless of how well the guy knows you. And presto! No longer sexual harassment.

  • Kate Cousino

    As my husband tells my kids, “CONTEXT!” Context matters. Context always matters. This can be terrifying if, like me, you are not naturally attuned to all of the context other people are. But what makes something harassment is always context–the context of relationship–or lack thereof–the context of power imbalances, the context of social expectations, the context of risks and costs, the context of other-knowledge, the context of all of the other interactions between two people. The context of attraction is actually pretty far down the list for many women–among other things, the arrogance of presumption can render a symmetrical face and pleasing physique really, REALLY unattractive. (Attractiveness, you see, is also contextual.)

  • Kate Cousino

    “You’re pretty” is basically never harassment on its own. It is harassment in particular contexts: a man shouts it at a woman walking down the street, to the jeers and laughs of his buddies, while thrusting his pelvis in her direction; someone says it to a female coworker in the midst of a planning meeting; a mentor says it after you’ve asked for a letter of reference…and so on.

  • Ancalagon

    Of course context matters. What I’m saying is that the context is largely dettermined by the woman’s subjective appraisal of the situation and the man. The arrogance of presumption can also make a pudgy physique and non-symmetrical face the height of attraction, depending on the context. Familiarity is only one of many potential qualifiers, and not even the most important. How many times has a woman heard “You’re beautiful” from the man she loves, and shrugs it off (she hears it all the time from him after all) only to blush and smile when a tall stranger tells her the same thing?

  • Ancalagon

    Sorry to double post, but I’ve been digging through marriage stats lately due to a conversation on another blog, and there’s something you might want to consider when judging dating app messages.

    The majority of never been married men ages 25+ have only a high school degree or less. Just going off of general estimates, that puts them around IQ 100, maybe even lower. Now, I don’t know if the services you’re using are specialized in any way, but with a minimal filter you’re going to be getting attention predominately from that demographic (I’m really guessing about that, but it makes sense to me). If it is the 25+ high school or less group that dominates the dating app, there may be a significant IQ/education gap that explains your reaction to the seemingly poor communications skills these guys have; if your own intelligence matches the average for your education level (postgraduate?) Then there’s likely to be communication problems. Remember, the guys are likely to be of average intelligence (not to sound harsh, but its reality), high school only, etc. So maybe “Hey, beautiful” really strikes them as a good line, they don’t know better.

    Just something to consider.

  • Kate Cousino

    You do realize that a blush is frequently a sign of discomfort, right?

  • Kate Cousino

    Yes, there’s a lot of subjective judgment that goes into how anyone responds to any comment from anybody. In most situations, we expect people to be able to figure out some of the more obvious contextual cues, though. You don’t walk into a job interview and say, “Wassuuuuuuuuuuuup?” Yes, it is the interviewer’s subjective judgment that your behaviour marks you as an idiot, but it’s a judgment you’re in a good position to anticipate based on the context of the situation and social mores.

  • Kate Cousino

    Also, irritated/unimpressed is not the same as sexually harassed. The observation that context can render a compliment sexual harassment should not be assumed to mean that all unwelcome overtures are de facto sexual harassment. Yes, whether or not an overture (like the “hello beautiful” on a dating app) is unwelcome can be entirely subjective. But the context that makes it cross the line into harassment is only partially subjective, and can be effectively broken down into a number of different outwardly observable and anticipatable factors.

  • Ancalagon

    You know what I meant by blush.

  • Kate Cousino

    You’re talking about externals. So no, I don’t know whether I can trust your perception of the internal motivations for a blush, averted glance, smile, etc.

    One thing that has become evident in the wake of Me Too is how poorly we understand each other’s signals, how frequently women use pro-social behaviours to cover the paralysis of discomfort when boundaries are crossed, and how foreign that paralysis is for those who haven’t experienced it (or been trained by life/relationships/expectations to placate rather than protest when boundaries are crossed).

  • Ancalagon

    Most reasonably well adjuted men and women know when they’ve evoked positive interest from the opposite sex. Boys learn that making girls laugh is one major way to get their interest, and, especially when younger, often overplay the method in an obnoxious way. But unless we’re talking about autists, men and women can pick up on these cues readily, they do it all the time on the street, in the club, at work, etc. Yes there’s always room for misinterpretation, but thats hardly limited to low key sexual interactions.

    Part of the trouble is that most of the time men are the ones who need to take the initiative if they want a shot with a woman (women mostly wait for men to make the advance), so if there is some misunderstanding, the man is typically the one who looks the worse for it. But that’s just the way things are.

  • The high, extremely high, cost of the sexual revolution is the death of anything resembling honor or morality among men.

    For that, you need to find a man who actually still respects women for being women, instead of for being replacement men.

  • Sarah Marie Dillard

    I’m disappointed in this post. I was initially encouraged by the title because I thought we were finally going to talk about #MeToo within the church, and then all I found was an article on how much it sucks to be judged by your cover. Yes, that is a shame, and both men and women could stand to adjust their courting expectations and habits…but no, that’s not what #MeToo is uncovering. Being called “beautiful” on a dating site for which you willingly signed up certainly reflects a need for individuals to see each other for more than sexual appeal, but it does not constitute sexual harassment. Now, receiving unwanted and uninvited sexually explicit messages and pictures, that has everything to do with the #MeToo movement. Being romanced into an idea of a potential partner and then being sexually violated upon face-to-face interaction with that person…that has everything to do with the #MeToo movement. It appears to be a habit of this site to choose intriguing titles that imply progressive understanding, only to lure the reader into a shallow discussion of a topic that so obviously has not been grasped. Please consider additional education on sexual harassment and violation. No victim or survivor should find hope in a title that will only lead them to feeling even more isolated and less understood. Thank you for considering this feedback.

    To victims and survivors reading this comment, please consider purchasing a copy of Wendy Maltz’s “The Sexual Healing Journey.” I am not in the habit of making plugs, but I know how difficult it is to find helpful (and not harmful) material on the subject of sexual abuse and recovery. The author is a patchwork survivor of multiple sexual assaults as well as an expert on sexual abuse and recovery, so she writes with great understanding and compassion. She compiles information based on surveys from actual victims and survivors, so everything in the book comes from a source that has personally experienced sexual abuse. Anyone else interested in learning more about the effects of sexual abuse would also greatly benefit from the reading of this book.

  • David M Pelly

    Emily Snyder,

    Your post is sickening.

    You are intellectually and perceptually dishonest.

    You are shallow, short sighted and narcissistic of the highest order.

    You are evidently a feminist and a liberated woman.

    Feminism is the stupid, insane idea that women can be men.

    No man in his right mind wants to marry another man.

    Gender equality is equal to a dead battery.

    Think honestly!

    Feminism, women’s liberation, gender equality are unsustainable practices or ideologies, and will sooner or later lead to the destruction of the human race or even the world, the actual planet itself.
    It is Satanic!

    A woman who does anything else, than look after home, husband and children (the next generation) is not only a prostitute, and a narcissist, but a criminal, guilty of crimes against humanity.

    Modern women, feminists, liberated women, the #metoo women have made the relationship arena so toxic, so dangerous, that it is better for a man to live under a bridge, than with those kind of women.

    The modern woman, the feminist, the liberated woman, the #metoo woman, will increasingly go lonely, mad, and insane/demented in her old age.

    Everything in this universe, is governed by universal law.

    Failure is feedback from the universe that something was not in alignment with universal law.

    When women abandon the home and care of the next generation, it is only a matter of time, before people will go crazier and crazier, madder and madder, crime will increase, and finally mass murders will increase until civilization is destroyed, or even someone goes so mad, he or she blows the planet up.

    This deterioration of society has been occurring since women got the right to vote and feminism began to really get traction by insane women like Gloria Steinem.
    It is clearly and increasingly happening all around us now.

    Can there be a greater crime than destroying all of civilization or the planet?!

  • Nica

    Sarah, what is being said here is indeed relevant to the #metoo movement: They underlying fact that when we truly see the other, we can’t objectify them. We can’t rape them, judge them, sexualize them, trivialize them, we can’t treat them carelessly. And a “Stop/Look/Listen” warning against treating others carelessly is what lies at the rebellious heart of #metoo.

  • Sarah Marie Dillard

    I see how you’re drawing the connection, and I agree that truly seeing each other is relevant to the cause of the #MeToo movement, but I do not think it’s ok to use a title to imply that you are discussing sexual harassment and abuse when you’re simply venting about the struggles of dating through an electronic devise. Anytime you choose to date through a phone instead of face to face, you are litterally inviting your potential partners to assess you by your cover. Want to change the game? Try dating a person and not an app! Just do us a favor and don’t lump yourself in with victims and survivors because you’re tired of being thought of as a pretty face. It reveals a major lack of understanding, and it’s harmful and unacceptable.

  • Laura Pittenger

    You seem upset

  • David M Pelly

    No. I am deeply concerned.

    Because I see the human race slowly being destroyed (the ultimate mass murder), as a result of feminism, and women’s liberation, right before my eyes and the activity is speeding up.

    I can’t see the pattern as reversible.

    We have passed the point of no return.

    The end of civilization, the end of the world, is near.

    It is only a matter of time.

    The mass and power of stupidity, craziness, perversion, madness and insanity has become greater than the mass and power of intelligence, sensibility, sober thinking and sanity, has to keep the former in check.

    Can there be a greater crime than destroying the entire human race?

    Give me one good reason, why all the crazies, perverts, lunatics, feminists and liberated women should not be locked up asap, to prevent the destruction (murdering) of all the humans on earth?

  • Laura Pittenger

    Because while the men of this world are locked in a frenzy of unwarranted online hysteria about women’s brains, somebody will have to take up the slack for the void of male leadership left by all the angry internet men

  • David M Pelly

    Men all come from women. Men are only as good as their mothers made them and brought them up. Women (mothers) have the most influence over their children, and how they turn out as adults.

    There never was born a bad man. There are only bad mothers.

    All of men’s problems are caused by their mothers.

    If you have a problem with the product, you have to check with the factory for the cause of the problem.

    If you have a problem with a man, you have to check with his mother for the cause of the problem.

    Never blame the man.

    Therefore all of the problems in the world, are caused by women.

  • Laura Pittenger

    I’m not going to insult your mother, David, no matter what a strong argument you’ve made above for doing so.

  • David M Pelly

    Laura,

    You are very intellectually shallow, intellectually dishonest, narrow and short sighted.

    You are part of the problem.

  • Laura Pittenger

    You seem very trustworthy and I am but a woman, what should I do differently

  • David M Pelly

    You need to undergo extensive education and training on how to be a good woman, wife and mother.

  • Laura Pittenger

    Ok is there a deprogramming center you recommend

  • David M Pelly

    Well said, Theodore.

  • David M Pelly

    I am in the planning stages of setting one up.

  • BernardBrandt

    Dear Emily,

    I left a comment on FB which referenced this page, and since I can not find that FB posting, I must write here, to apologize for my flippant response, and to ask your forgiveness for its impertinence.

    My response on FB was something to the effect that I was one with Alan Quartermain from League of Extraordinary Men, and I quoted his line, “I have buried two wives, and many lovers, and am in no mood for either.”

    While my response was, alas, accurate insofar as it went, it also fell into the Douglas Adams’ category: this is true, but unhelpful.

    I found your essay to be very thoughtful, the simile to C.S. Lewis’ (and Joy Davidman’s) Til We Have Faces which you drew to be quite compelling, and its penultimate and ultimate questions which were borne of that simile (“How do we see each other face to face? How do we gain faces?”) deserving of answers.

    And, so, I’d like to try answering those questions, and the broader question of the relations of men and women in a post #metoo age.
    My experience as a man is that sexual passion is, in the words of the chap from Plato’s Symposium, “rather like a madness, and I’m just as happy now to be rid of it”. I suspect that much of the nonsense, and the plain evil, which have occurred in Hollywood and elsewhere have been borne out of that passion, and that madness. I do not condone, excuse, justify, or even seek to mitigate the recent crimes that have been done as a result. I simply point out the probable causes of the crimes committed in its name.

    That said, we also live in a world which has turned sexual intercourse into a competitive spectator sport. While the Wonderful World of Pornography is the main exemplar of this unfortunate tendency, Hollywood, the Academy Awards, and all of the fashion plates created in their names, all bear testimony to this unfortunate fact.

    I realize that the foregoing does not answer your questions. It does, however, put into stark contrast the world in which most people live, and the world in which Christian and Catholic men and women still seek to inhabit, or for that matter, any man or woman who has grown tired of the evils of the present world.

    I will now attempt to answer your questions, through the lens of my experience, and as simply as possible.

    My point of departure begins with the comedian, Chris Rock’s observation: “Men, if you are not interested in marrying the woman, you are just wasting her time.” Perhaps a bit crass, but I think it serves as a corrective to the tendency of this modern world to consider sexual desire as a commodity, to be bought and sold, rather than as a gift to be given and received, and within the context of a fruitful marriage.

    I note also the late Peter O’Toole’s remark on his relations with women: “In love, it all depends on the woman. If she is uninterested, then it will not happen.” I think this is a corrective to all would-be pick up artists and other con men, or any who try ‘pick up lines’. The love of a woman for a man can not be defrauded or manipulated into being, or not for long. Those who try usually find their punishment for it, if only in the scorn of the women upon whom it is attempted.

    But I think that the answer to your last question can be found in the question itself. Its complete expression, in Lewis’ and Davidman’s tale, was ‘How can we see the gods face to face ’til we have faces?’ And the answer to your question, “How do we gain faces?”, I have managed to find by my own poor experience: when we become the man or woman we were meant to be.

    Hoping that you will forgive me for my original, impertinent answer, and that this silly epistle might in fact answer your questions, I am

    Very truly yours,

    Bernard Brandt

  • BernardBrandt

    Truly, Laura, you must live on a high irony diet.

  • Laura Pittenger

    I was in fact turned down from giving blood once for having too little iron, if you can believe it

  • fractal

    Girl,

    You have evolved out of Catholicism.
    Go find a nice Buddhist man and start meditating.
    It will get you a lot farther spiritually and romantically.

    Sincerely,
    One who has been there…

    P.S.
    If you need any more impetus, just read the comment below by David M Pelly.
    THAT should make you think twice about your present path.

  • fractal

    Hmmmm,

    The men rape and murder and start wars—and you STILL blame women!
    Better start burning those Jezebels before they do something crazy, like cure cancer…

  • fractal

    Gosh David,

    ANOTHER solution might be for women to just phase out men, and clone—a whole world of fat, happy women!

  • fractal

    MORE women-blaming.
    Now we are in charge of men’s morality!!!
    I guess every little bitty thing wrong with the planet is the fault of Eve—excuse me, women.

    If men are such widdle boys that they cannot master their donkey—they have no place in decision making or leadership positions.
    Time for women to take charge and clean up the widdle boys mess.

  • fractal

    Perhaps you should ASK women and LISTEN to the answer, instead of mansplaining to us what harassment of women, by men, is all about.
    Unless of course, you think that you, as a man, already know it all.

  • fractal

    Frankly,

    I don’t think YOU KNOW.

  • fractal

    Will it take teen girls that aren’t sufficiently “feminine enough” for their parents?

  • Ancalagon

    I don’t think I know it all. I KNOW I know it all!

  • David M Pelly

    Fractal,

    You are also very shallow and short sighted and intellectually challenged.

    Did you know that:

    Men all come from women.?

    The men are only as good as their mother’s made them.

    If you have a problem with a man, you have to check with his mother for the cause of the problem.

    As well as the other significant women.

    Re: wars:

    The reason men strat wars is because women drive them so crazy and mad!

    The problem is not what the man did,

    the problem is what was done to the man by his mother and other women in his life.

  • David M Pelly

    For iron deficiency, take a tablespoon of good quality blackstrap molasses every day.

  • David M Pelly

    The #metoo movement, feminism and women’s liberation, will soon destroy (kill/murder) all life on the planet.

    And there be a bigger crime against humanity?

  • David M Pelly

    fractal:

    Wise men and women realized a long, long time ago, that women should never be a allowed to think, because they will eventually screw everything up.

    That has now come to pass.

    Just look at the effing mess we have.

    Everything is going to hell in a hand basket.

    People are getting crazier and crazier and madder and madder by the day.

    It is not safe to be anywhere.

    The guy who took a rental van and drove down the side walk in Toronto, last week and killed 10 people and injured 15 others,
    is a perfect example.

    His mother is mostly to blame for that.

    But probably his father, is partly to blame for that too.

  • If we religious conservatives spin #metoo right, we can end the madness- since the obvious answer to #metoo is husbands, fathers, and brothers with guns removing the scum from the planet.

  • David M Pelly

    Yes, the school will accept anyone.

  • David M Pelly

    Ancalagon,

    We are on the same track.

    🙂

  • David M Pelly

    I know what you mean, Theo.

    It is sad to admit, that there is some truth to what you say.

    The leaders of the feminist movement are amongst the worst.

    There are no bigger criminals in the world.

    The most said thing is that they have infiltrated and infested the media, and are now in control of the media, I especially mean CNN and CBC. They are the worst. But FOX news, and other mainstream media are almost as bad.

    A great philospher said this over 70 yrs ago:

    The whole future of the race depends upon its attitude toward
    children; and a race which specializes in women for menial
    purposes, or which believes that the contest of the sexes in
    the spheres of business and politics is a worthier endeavour
    than the creation of tomorrow’s generation, is a race which is
    dying.

    We have, in the woman who is an ambitious rival of the man in his own
    activities, a woman who is neglecting the most important mission she has.

    A society which looks down upon this mission, and in which women are
    taught anything but the management of a family, the care of men, and the
    creation of the future generation, is a society which is on its way out.

    The historian can peg the point where a society begins its sharpest
    decline at the instant when women begin to take part, on an equal footing with
    men, in political and business affairs; since this means that the men are
    decadent and the women are no longer women.

    This is not misogyny. This is not a sermon on the role or position of women:
    it is the statement of a bald and basic fact.

    When marriage home and children become unimportant to a society, that society
    has forfeited its future.

    Even beyond the fathering and bearing of children, a human being does not seem to be complete
    without a relationship with a member of the opposite sex.

    This relationship is the vessel where in is nurtured the life force of
    both individuals, whereby they create the future of the race in body
    and thought. If man is to rise to greater heights, then women must
    rise with him, or even before him. But she must rise as woman and not
    as today, she is being misled into rising — as a man.

    It is the hideous joke of frustrated, unvirile men to make women over into
    the travesty of men which men themselves have become.

    Men are often said to difficult and troublesome creatures. But they are still valuable.
    The complainers about men have to realize that men come from women. They are all only as good as they have been bred and bought up.

    The creative care and handling of men is an artful and a beautiful task.

    Those who would cheat women of their rightful place by making them into men
    should at last realize that by this action they are destroying not
    only the women, but the men and the children of the future as well.

    This is too great a price to pay for being “modern” or for someone’s
    petty anger or spite or joke, against the female sex.

    The arts and skills of woman, the creation and inspiration of which she
    is capable and which, here and there in isolated places in our
    culture, she still manages to effect in spite of the ruin and decay
    of man’s world which spreads around her, must be brought newly and
    fully into life.

    These arts and skills and creation and inspiration are her beauty, just as
    she is the beauty of mankind.

    On one hand some men
    are difficult and troublesome creatures — but valuable. On
    the other hand, we are all only as good as we have been bred and
    brought up. We all come from women. If you have a problem with the
    product, you have to check with the factory for the cause of the
    problem. When you have a problem with a man, you have to check with
    all the significant women in his life.

    Some women complain that men are difficult and troublesome creatures. But the
    reverse is also true, even more so. Women naturally respond to and
    function best under the control of alpha males. But very few males
    are alpha. And this frustrates women. Because as the late Dr. R.G.
    Hamer (founder of German New Medicine) has discovered, the male and
    female brains are naturally biologically programmed (hardwired)
    differently. Man is biologically programmed to be territorial. And
    women are biologically programmed to only be naturally able to have a
    territory within a man’s territory.

    And they function best in such situations because that is the law of nature, which is part of
    universal law. Certainly, women can learn to function on their own, and
    develop their own territory, but it is not naturally fulfilling. It is artificial.
    Nothing will fulfill a woman’s heart and soul better than obeying
    natural law and order. In order to get the full understanding of
    this subject, you have to take all the courses offered by Caroline
    Markolin at http://www.learninggnm.com.

    Louis Farrakhan said the same thing:

    About: Happiness in the Home’

    Mr. Farrakhan urged the women to embrace his formula for a
    successful family. He encouraged them to put husbands and children
    ahead of their careers, shun tight, short skirts, stay off welfare
    and reject abortion. He also stressed the importance of cooking and
    cleaning and urged women not to abandon homemaking for careers.

    “You’re just not going to be happy unless there is happiness
    in the home,” Mr. Farrakhan said at the Mason Cathedral Church
    of God in Christ in the Dorchester section, not far from the Roxbury
    neighbourhood where he was reared by a single mother. “Your
    professional lives can’t satisfy your soul like a good, loving man.”

    It is not misogyny. It is the truth. It is a bold and basic fact. That is
    the way we were created, it is natural law or biological law, and all
    the argument, law suits and demonstrations in the world will not
    change that, any more than arguments, lawsuits, and demonstrations
    can change the law of gravity.

    Modern thinking, highly influenced by insane, humanistic, narcissistic, hedonistic academic thinking and
    propaganda, cannot change the laws of nature, any more than they can change the law of gravity.

    The world is becoming an increasingly insane place, where right is wrong and wrong is right
    and people do not respond to reason and truth.

    In vain we build a world, in which women are taught anything but the management of a family,
    the care of men, and the creation of the future generation.

    In vain we build a world, when women abandon post on the homefront, and
    compete with men on an equal basis in their world of business and politics.

    War is caused by insanity.

    The war front is caused by failure on the home front.

    Love, truth, sanity, peace and safety in the home, love, truth, sanity, peace and safety in the world.

  • fractal

    How about a five year old girl that likes to wear cowboy boots?

  • fractal

    The movement is not JUST about sexual abuse/harassment.
    It is about the climate and mindset that spawns such.

  • fractal

    Keep it up, RIGHTY!!!
    Women vote, and they are listening…
    I couldn’t do a better job of turning them off to misogyny, than you have.

  • fractal

    Mommy Complex.
    You cannot marry her, dear.
    You cannot screw her and you cannot murder her.
    But you CAN take your angst out on other women…

    Tell me, do you have a whipping girl yet?

  • fractal

    I bet you got a stiffy writing that…

  • David M Pelly

    fractal:

    Read the words of an intelligent and sane woman:

    By Madeline Dahlgren, 1871

    http://sceti.library.upenn.edu/sceti/printedbooksNew/index.cfm?TextID=19950_O_16&PagePosition=1

    We acknowledge no inferiority to men.

    We claim to have no less ability to perform the duty God has imposed upon
    us, than they have to perform those imposed upon them.

    We believe that God has wisely and well adapted each sex to the proper performance of the duties of each.

    We believe our trusts to be as important and sacred as any that exist.

    We feel that our present duties fill up the whole measure of our time and
    abilities, and they are such as none but us can perform.

    Their importance requires us to protest against all efforts to compel us to
    assume those obligations which cannot be separated from suffrage; but
    which cannot be performed by us, without the sacrifice of the highest
    interests of our families and society.

    It is our fathers, brothers, husbands and sons who represent us at the ballot-box.

    Our fathers and husbands love us. Our husbands are our choice, and one with us.

    Our sons are what we make them.

    We are content that they represent us in the corn-field, the battle-field
    and the ballot-box, and we them in the school-room, at the fireside, at
    the cradle, and at believing our representation, even at the ballot-box,
    to be thus more full and impartial than it could possibly be were all
    women allowed to vote.

    We do therefore respectfully protest against any legislation to establish women suffrage in our land or in any part of it.

    We hold that the new status will prove to be the worst kind of communism, the worst force to destroy civilization.

    The relations between the sexes, so carefully guarded by religion and by
    parents, by law and by society, will become perverted and therefore
    corrupt. The family, the foundation of the State, (the building blocks
    of civil society) civilization will disappear.

    The (great) mothers, sisters and daughters of our glorious past will
    exist no more and the female gender will vanish into epicene.

    Epicene:

    having characteristics of both sexes or no characteristics of either sex; of indeterminate sex.

    Epicene: having characteristics of both sexes or no characteristics of
    either sex; of indeterminate sex. “the sort of epicene beauty peculiar
    to boys of a certain age”

    effeminate; effete.

    “the actor infused the role with an epicene languor”

    We hold that the new status will prove to be the worst kind of communism.

    The relations between the sexes, so carefully guarded by religion and by parents, by
    law and by society, will become common and therefore corrupt. The
    family, the foundation of the State, (the building blocks of civil
    society) civilization will disappear. The (great) mothers, sisters and
    daughters of our glorious past will exist no more and the female gender
    will vanish into epicene.

    And then it is only a matter of time, until all hell breaks lose and the apocalypse will
    occur, and civilization will be no more. Man -woman equality is not a
    sustainable practice.

    Man -woman equality is equal to a dead battery.
    Man -woman equality will cause the destruction of civilization.

    Every wrong doer is at least responsible for all the consequences that occur or might
    reasonably be be expected under the circumstances to result from his or
    her conduct.

    Can there be a greater crime than murdering all of civilization?

  • David M Pelly

    That means that that five yr old has an insane mother.

  • David M Pelly

    You are a very mentally sick, perverted woman!

  • David M Pelly

    You are toxic to men and society as a whole!

  • fractal

    Still stuck in the 19th century—you misogynists are such reactionaries!
    I guess your mommy didn’t bake you cookies often enough.
    BTW,
    You can take your violent, war-mongering, woman-hating, minor deity mountain “god”—and shove it.

  • fractal

    Dear Bernard,

    I don’t think “passion” has anything to do with it—entitlement does.

    Men don’t abuse women who have power over them—they pick a woman quite selectively to abuse. A stranger, a “on the edge” woman who won’t be taken seriously when she complains, a much younger, naive woman etc…

    Men go to great lengths to lie to women about their intent, string her along, overwhelm her with aggressive passion and try to rush her into sex, try to humiliate her into thinking she must be paranoid and unfair to the poor man who “just wants to watch a movie and drink a little wine” etc…

    Men are quite capable of mastering their Donkeys when it suits them.
    But when it comes to “getting some”, they compartmentalize and become sociopathic.
    Here is a song that illustrates such, written by the great Nick Lowe, son-in-law of Johnny Cash.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6hzkBihaew

  • David M Pelly

    fractal,

    you are really seriously deranged.

    You need to find a good man, an up right man, a man with a noble character,a man who has his head screwed on straight, a man who had a good mother, and ask him to fuck some sense into you.

    A woman’s disposition and intelligence is determined by the quantity and quality of the semen in her bloodstream.

    And be always obedient to him!

    A good man’s motto.

    I am easy to keep.
    If I am not horny,
    make me something to eat,
    look after the home and children,
    and I will lay the moon and stars at your feet.

    But most unfortunately, and generally speaking,
    it is better for a man to live under a bridge, than with a modern woman today.

  • fractal

    Triggered by COWBOY BOOTS!

    Darling,
    You are on the wrong meds.
    Go see a different doctor.

  • fractal

    Answer the question.
    Have you found your Whipping Girl, or not?

    Found a reservoir for your overflowing “intelligence bestowing semen” yet?

  • David M Pelly

    You got it all wrong, sour puss!

    I am not that kind of man!

  • fractal

    STILL
    Haven’t answered the question…

  • fractal

    OOGA BOOGA!!!

    Better burn me at the stake, big boy.