Stop Slogan-Voting. Stop Hate-Voting. Stop Being Manipulated. Part 7. Democracy = We Are Responsible

Democracy is not a lazy person’s form of government.

If your idea of good citizenship is watching the dissolution of our society from the sidelines like an insomniac staring at a late-night movie, you need to move to a dictatorship. Democracy is too much work for you.

“The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.” Contrary to popular attribution, neither Thomas Jefferson nor Patrick Henry said this first. The truth appears to be less glamorous.

John Philpot Curran first said, “The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and punishment of his guilt.”

Personally, I like Curran’s original wording better. It’s not as pithy as the more popular version. It won’t fit as well in a speech or the lead of a news story, but it says what needs saying.

Liberty is our natural state under God. If you doubt this, all you have to do is consider the extreme and absolute freedom He bestows on each of us. God does not force us to follow Him. In His own words, He sets before us life and death; right and wrong. But he lets us chose. He allows us to live our lives exactly as we decide to live them, even if that means committing grievous sin and turning our backs on Him.

Liberty is our natural state under God. But we live in a devil-besotted world that is stained and weakened by original sin. Thus, liberty, which comes from God, comes also with the requirement that we must guard it well or we will lose it.

No one wants to be a slave, but it seems that there are a lot of people who want to own slaves. Curran rightly says that if we stop tending our liberties, we will lose them and we will end in servitude.

In our generation we acknowledge that members of our military pay with their life’s blood for our freedom. What we don’t acknowledge is that the real threat to our freedom is not military invasion. No foreign power I know of is hankering to land on our shores with troops and armaments, and as Lincoln said, “by force take a drink from the Ohio River.”

This generation’s challenges to liberty come from our two political parties, our own government, our corporations and from our lazy refusal to fight for the democracy which is our inheritance. It feels good to blame the propagandists on our televisions, the amoral political parties and the equally amoral corporations who own them. Disrespecting politicians is an American birthright, a natural outgrowth of freedom of religion and speech. If we ever see the day when we can not make fun of our elected officials, we are doomed. But, worthless as they are, puppet people politicians are not ultimately to blame for this mess.

We may have, as Will Rogers said, the best government that money can buy, but the ones wearing the biggest price tag on them are not the politicians. The many millions that are lavished on political campaigns in this country are spent for one purpose: To buy us. By the time the campaigning starts, the puppet people politicians are already bought. They’ve been recruited, programmed and polished to a marketable level. Now they’re set before us for our inspection like new cars on a lot.

As I said earlier, the object of all this sloganeering, hate-campaigning, and propaganda is the manipulation of us, of we the people. Or, to put it more bluntly, the object of all this expenditure of capital and slime is our vote.

The one thing that those who want to control our government for their own ends fear is an informed and aroused citizenry. That’s why they spend huge amounts of money to feed us a steady diet of propaganda and lies. We have brains. We’ve got to think something with them. So, they spend enormous sums to fill our otherwise very good minds with half-truths and lies.

We are the products of an educational system that no longer teaches young people our American story. We’ve been taught to take multiple choice tests and not a lot else. Our educational system produces wave after wave of people who’ve never read an original source. We have large numbers of people with higher-level degrees whose entire education is the product of the digested and massaged bits and scraps of thought found in incredibly over-priced textbooks.

We have actually been taught to take other people’s pre-digested opinions about great thinkers as the works of the thinkers themselves. And we don’t have to understand these thoughts. All we have to do is exercise the totally-useless-in-life skill of getting a high score on a multiple choice test.

This is our educational system from early childhood through university level. It is nothing more than a trade school, or what we used to call vocational-technical education, on steroids.

That makes us prey for the propagandists and manipulators who want to confuse us into believing whatever sheep dip they’re dumping on us. Coming as we do from churches who preach politics rather than Christ, who sometimes preach politics as Christ, we are shorn of the moral underpinnings that would keep us from jumping headlong into abusive language, vicious slander and hate-voting.

We are, in short, easy pickings.

We can blame the manipulators, both secular and clerical, for misusing their enormous talents to do such harm. They are certainly responsible for what they do.

But ultimately, no matter how much money is spent manipulating us, it’s up to us whether or not we will allow ourselves to be manipulated.

We are Americans. We are a free people. That makes us responsible. We are responsible for what we chose to believe, how we chose to behave and whether or not we value our liberty enough to do the work and exercise the vigilance to keep it.

Liberty is our God-given right. The God of all the universe, the creator of creation from bottom to top, set us free from our beginning. He gave us such absolute freedom that we can accept or reject Him. We can do anything we want. We can create or destroy, think or blindly follow, live free or become slaves.

The equation is, again, a simple one:

Democracy = We Are Responsible

  • http://nebraskaenergyobserver.wordpress.com neenergyobserver

    Yes, Maam. Completely and indisputedly correct. Leaving the question, have we become too lazy to be real Americans? That question is up to us to answer. I often fear I know the answer.

    • http://publiccatholic.wordpress.com Rebecca Hamilton

      I know. Me too.

      • http://nebraskaenergyobserver.wordpress.com neenergyobserver

        Well, we will do our part to educate and encourage our people, it is the least we can do, and it is the most we can do.

        I just this morning started a short series that filled many holes for me in our early history. You might enjoy it as well.

        http://nebraskaenergyobserver.wordpress.com/2012/07/30/go-ye-patriarchs-and-pioneers-part-1/

        I think it speaks loudly of the traditional American character, which we often seem to have lost.

        • http://publiccatholic.wordpress.com Rebecca Hamilton

          As usual, you da man!!

          • http://nebraskaenergyobserver.wordpress.com neenergyobserver

            With the help of my friends!!

  • http://jessicahof.wordpress.com JessicaHof

    Whilst there are Americans like you and NEO, there is always hope. America remains our last best hope. God bless America!

    • http://publiccatholic.wordpress.com Rebecca Hamilton

      I’ve learned this in a way I never knew it before from people like you Jessica.

      “America remains our last best hope.”

      • http://jessicahof.wordpress.com JessicaHof

        It remains so for many of us – and you and other patriots will redeem the times.

  • http://servusfidelis.wordpress.com servusfidelis

    You have hit on several problems that need solving in a hurry. First the problem of the propagandist news organizations that no longer serve as a buffer between the people and the government: they have become cheerleaders and no longer have that adversarial relationship with our politicians that hold them accountable. Number two, our education system is in shambles. I think it was Dinesh D’Souza that uncovered some amazing statistics that pointed out that those who graduate from school are likely to get an education that is equivalent to 1 grade level lower than those 5 years before (I may have the number of years wrong – going by memory). However, it is amazing that our new ranks of voters have been dumbed down to the level of many who in the past never got out of grade school. Education today is something that each person has to take control of themselves: reading everything they can get their hands on to make up for the seemingly calculated cuts in classic studies. No classic literature, no philosophy, no religion, no classes in basic logic or government. The internet that has been the bane of society for all the trash has now become the best source for news stories and for educating our youth on the issues they never get taught in school. It didn’t take us long to get here but I’ll bet it’s going to take a much longer time to get out of it. Thanks for the articles.

    • http://publiccatholic.wordpress.com Rebecca Hamilton

      I think you’re right. We are going to have to take responsibility for our education ourselves. Abraham Lincoln is a fine example that this can work.

      “Education today is something that each person has to take control of themselves: reading everything they can get their hands on to make up for the seemingly calculated cuts in classic studies. No classic literature, no philosophy, no religion, no classes in basic logic or government.”

  • http://neoprimitive.wordpress.com jmar198013

    “If your idea of good citizenship is watching the dissolution of our society from the sidelines like an insomniac staring at a late-night movie, you need to move to a dictatorship. Democracy is too much work for you.” Yes! Thank you!

    • http://publiccatholic.wordpress.com Rebecca Hamilton

      de nada!

  • http://lbkennett.wordpress.com lbkennett

    Educate yourself and vote.

    • http://publiccatholic.wordpress.com Rebecca Hamilton

      :-)

  • Garrick D. Conner

    Powerful post, Rebecca. These are true words that should be required reading for every American. I have a love-hate relationship with with my gift of discernment. I pray that God will give me boldness, courage, and opportunity to do something with it in these troublesome times. As I’ve always told my counseling clients, “Insight for the sake of insight is altogether unhelpful. It’s what we do with those insights that makes all the difference.” Thank you for sharing a very thoughtful and poignant perspective. Keep fighting the good fight!

    • http://publiccatholic.wordpress.com Rebecca Hamilton

      Continue praying Garrick. Give yourself to God so that you can obey whatever He asks of you. Then get ready for Him to tell you to do something you don’t expect.That’s been my experience.

      “I have a love-hate relationship with with my gift of discernment. I pray that God will give me boldness, courage, and opportunity to do something with it in these troublesome times.”

  • http://ackans.wordpress.com Mr. V.

    Thanks for posting this. Every American should read it.

    It is depressing and scary the manner in which all too many people vote today. Take the last election for example. All too many younger people voted for President Obama, not because they had examined his political goals and his record as a state politician in Illinois and agreed with his principles and political goals, but rather because they were impressed by his winning smile and the way he carried himself.

    There were those with whom I discussed the last election who did in fact favor Obama because they had researched him and thought that he was the candidate who most closely matched what they looked for in a president. My beliefs differed from theirs, but I respected their opinion. I do not respect the opinions of those who voted for frivolous reasons as I detailed above. Hopefully the next generation will be better educated, and will learn to cast their vote responsibly.

    • http://publiccatholic.wordpress.com Rebecca Hamilton

      Good points. Thank you!

    • http://www.rosariesforlife.com Dave

      Sadly, Mr. V, I think this is the case, at least subconsciously, in every election in at least the last 50 years. You can find exceptions if you look hard enough, but it’s almost a rule that the best looking candidate will win if the race is contestable (i.e. Nancy Pelosi would not lose to a Republican version of Anne Hathaway, but I’m guessing the GOP Anne would gain an extra 10% of the vote)

      It’s scientifically proven, and we all know it if we are honest with ourselves, that we are more inclined to view favorably and to listen to, those who are more physically attractive. Hopefully we have learned to compensate for that, or we have overcome that with the help of grace, but it’s there.

      So, that’s where we sit in America. You have roughly 80% of people voting reflexively for one party or the other, another 10% succumbing to vote for whoever is the most attractive in their eyes, and maybe only 10% who actually educate themselves and try to do something about it.

      All we can do is pray, and try to spread the message. Thanks for this series, Rebecca. I have passed it on to many people in my small circle of influence.

      • Rebecca Hamilton

        Thank you Dave!

        Just an aside: I think Sarah Palin was BY FAR the best-looking candidate 4 years ago. :-)

        • http://www.rosariesforlife.com Dave

          Yes, but she wasn’t running for President, and also had the entire media dogging her at every step. I’m not a big Palin fan myself and wouldn’t particularly like seeing her in the White House (although compared to the alternative being offered….), but she was really treated unfairly. I don’t think that media treatment would have happened to anyone but a conservative woman.

          • Rebecca Hamilton

            The one place where I disagree is that you don’t feel it would have happened to anyone but a CONSERVATIVE woman. Hillary Clinton was treated very badly, too. By that I mean the sexist attacks she got. It’s one of my complaints against President Obama. He was elected on a misogynist campaign.

  • http://godhappenings.wordpress.com reiddiane

    This is a very thought provoking post and very needful. I was appalled at the last presidential election, not because I was pro Obama or against Obama, but because of the seemingly blind devotion and almost worship that was bestowed upon him. Freedom is so hard earned so easily tossed aside and we do it everytime we voted emotionally instead of intelligently. But in our defense, most of us are products of an education that systematically taught us that the right answer is more important than right thinking, certainly more important than independent thinking. I will keep you in my prayers that God uses you mightly to turn the tide.

    • http://publiccatholic.wordpress.com Rebecca Hamilton

      Very true.

      “Freedom is so hard earned so easily tossed aside”

    • Rebecca Hamilton

      Thank you very much. Good point, and sadly, too true.
      “in our defense, most of us are products of an education that systematically taught us that the right answer is more important than right thinking, certainly more important than independent thinking.”

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  • Arkenaten

    And may I ask what happens to us poor atheists (and all non Christians) who do not follow ‘him’?
    According to the Bible we go to Hell, am I right?
    I am afraid this isn’t really much of a choice, Rebecca.
    This is like insisting a child tells you it loves you and if it refuses you smack it.
    This isn’t really freedom either, if you think about it.

    • http://www.rosariesforlife.com Dave

      Atheists don’t necessarily go to Hell. God sees the heart. We don’t.

      What I will say is that those who DO go to Hell, send themselves there. It’s like a family. As a parent, I love all my children, and want to have a close relationship with all of them. However, if one of them decides to cut off all contact with us, I have to respect that choice and let them live their lives according to their choice. It’s the same with God. He wants all His children following the path of love to Heaven with Him, but if some choose to go their own path, He will respect that choice. Being apart from God, who is the Author and source of all beauty, truth, and goodness is the definition of Hell.

      • Arkenaten

        “Being apart from God, who is the Author and source of all beauty, truth, and goodness is the definition of Hell.”

        Pope John Paul II
        “To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called “hell.”[5

        Any god who behaves like this towards its own creation is not worth a second thought. Even your average tyrant would offer another chance.
        I’ll take my chances, thank you very much :)

        • Rebecca Hamilton

          Douglas, you need to read the Catechism. It’s much more nuanced that you want to make it. FWIW, your opinion of God doesn’t matter so very much. It’s rather His opinion of you that determines your eternal future.

          • Arkenaten

            But how can you even begin to guess at what His opinion is of me? Or anyone for that matter?

          • Arkenaten

            Don’t know why this Rule slipped my mind…but then , there are so many of them.
            Kid’s eh? Got to love ‘em, right? Apparently, only to a point….
            We can share this with Dave.
            Deuteronomy 21:18-21
            New International Version (NIV)

            Have to follow the ‘Rules’

            Wink…

      • Arkenaten

        “However, if one of them decides to cut off all contact with us, I have to respect that choice and let them live their lives according to their choice.”
        If one of my kids did this I would immediately ask myself what the heck had I done to alienate them? I’d be horrified.
        You obviously believe it must be your kids problem. Bit like your god then, I guess.

        • http://www.rosariesforlife.com Dave

          Of course, I would ask the same question as you. But of course, it is also possible for our kids to become alienated for reasons of their own. For God, there is no such possibility on His part, although our misperceptions of Him can convince us otherwise.

          What Pope John Paul II said is essentially what I said. Mortal sin is basically deliberately committing an act in a serious matter that we know God forbids (or omitting an act that he commands.) Think about a son who physically attacks his mother. This could end up with him being thrown out of the home, unless and until he has shown true evidence of sorrow. If he is never sorry, then the relationship will never be repaired.

          So, you blame God for not forcing one to be with Him against their will? I am not sure what your complaint is here.

          • Arkenaten

            Why would a child launch an unprovoked attack on its parent?
            What sort of family would this be? Not mine, this I can tell you!
            I am an atheist, which means I do not believe in gods, yours or any other, so how can I blame a god for anything?
            I don’t really have a complaint, I think it’s odd that’s all. The choice religious people are offered is quite narrow. Worship or else….

            • http://www.rosariesforlife.com Dave

              I guess your experience and mine are quite different. In my world, I find it quite believable and lamentably common that a child would launch an unprovoked assault on a parent. We are asked to worship God for our own good, not His, just as we should be grateful to our parents for our own good, not our parents good. Why? In a nutshell, because it puts our life in configuration with the truth.

              • Arkenaten

                “I guess your experience and mine are quite different. In my world, I find it quite believable and lamentably common that a child would launch an unprovoked assault on a parent.”

                I guess our experiences must be.
                Maybe it’s time you asked yourself why? And I sincerely hope you are not talking about your own children?

                “We are asked to worship God for our own good,”
                Really? This is not how it reads in the bible and certainly not from the tone of Commandments 1 ^2. Maybe it’s a Christian thing”

                I am grateful to my parents as my kids are to theirs. They say so and I have no reason to doubt what they say. They’re honest kids. But I would never demand worship. Why should an omnipotent deity require such a base act of acknowlegment? Maybe this is a Christian thing also?

                “Configuration with the truth”
                Who’s truth?

                • http://www.rosariesforlife.com Dave

                  Nah…it’s mostly because of drugs that I hear of children doing all sorts of horrible things to their parents, but that is by no means the only reason.

                  If God, as we Christians understand Him, does exist, then I regard it as a tautology that it is only justice that we worship Him.

                  Well, the idea that there is objective truth is a leap between our worldviews. However, since I am sure you regard mathematical laws and some laws of physics, etc. as objectively true, you can at least admit the possibility that similar laws may exist in other spheres of life.

              • Arkenaten

                I would imagine that providing you behave yourself and you are happy that should be worship enough, surely?
                A parent secure in the knowledge that their offspring have turned out okay?

                Much if not all of your idea of truth is largely based on the Bible, yes? There isnt enóugh space Rebecca’s blog to discuss this and it would be rude to do so, weve already’ overstayed our welcome, I fear.
                We can all have our own opinion. We can’t have our own facts.

        • http://www.rosariesforlife.com Dave

          One misperception you appear to have of God is that He makes up what you consider arbitrary rules and then demands obedience to them. That would indeed be tyrannical.

          However, God’s laws are always and only for our own good. Consider it an owners manual. If you decide to put molasses into the gas tank instead of gas, despite all known laws of car operation, don’t complain that Ford is a tyrannical corporation when your engine gets destroyed.

          • Arkenaten

            Yes, but the trouble here is, if I want to buy a Porsche then your god will have a tantrum and still damn me to hell merely because he believes a Ford is better car, petrol or molasses not withstanding.

            • http://www.rosariesforlife.com Dave

              Well, again, that is your assumption that His laws are arbitrary and tyrannical. If, in fact, His laws are based on the truth of how we were created, then your Porsche/Ford analogy does not hold.

              • Arkenaten

                Sigh…okay, if it makes your god happy then I’ll drive a Ford and I promise not to fill the tank with molasses. Do I get to choose the make and colour? If so, can it be a black Mustang with cream leather trim?
                How’s that?

                • http://www.rosariesforlife.com Dave

                  No, it was only an example….but please do not feel constrained to buy a Ford! I haven’t had the best of luck with them… ;-)

                  Thanks for ending on a humorous note!

              • Arkenaten

                At least I’m not like Janis Joplin hey?
                Remember, she asked your god to buy her a Mercedes Benz ‘cos all her friends drove Porsches.
                Is your god a petrol head do you think? :)

    • Indy

      If you don’t want to be near God in this life then He isn’t going to force you to be with him after you pass. He loves you – He wants you to be near him but he’s not a dictator who is going to force you into a relationship that you do not want. Peace to you.

      • Arkenaten

        Ah, I see. So what have Chrisitans have been going on about for millenia regardng burning in eternal Hell really is a load of hogwash and is mere analogy?
        Great, so it doesn’t really matter whether I worship your god or not then, does it.

        • http://www.rosariesforlife.com Dave

          Well, it isn’t much fun to be apart from God for all eternity. The theologians and the Church have always taught that separation from God’s presence is the worst suffering of Hell. As to whether the sufferings of Hell include actual fire, the jury is out. If there is literal fire, it certainly isn’t the fire that we know.

          • Arkenaten

            So Dante is a big fat liar,liar, pants on fire then,is he?

            Always thought so. Can’t trust these Florentine Eye-Talian poets, eh?
            So purgatory is not really a Way-Station either then I guess?
            I think I’ll opt for the Norse version when it’s time for me to pop off. You know, Rollicking, quaffing, feasting and big bosomed maidens and stuff.

            As for hell being apart from your god? Well now, let me think. Beer, Bosoms, and general Roistering or living on a cloud listening to stupid harp music all ‘day’.
            Er…… you have to be kidding, right?

            • http://www.rosariesforlife.com Dave

              Well, Dante IS a poet. Poets have been known to take “poetic license.” ;-) That is not to say that Dante is wrong. Anyway, the Church teaching has not changed over the years on this point.

              I think that you are mistaken on your simplistic notions of the after-life. Basically, there will be infinite love, communion, community on one side and debased selfishness, isolation and despair on the other side. Certainly, it’s much more than we can even imagine, but those are the basic parameters.

  • Virginia

    What discourages me, Rebecca, is when both choices seem to be “puppet politicians,” bought and paid for by well-heeled corporations and other entities interested only in furthering their own goals or lining their own pockets. I’m not a fan of everything Ron Paul says, though his financial and large-government warnings are certainly more plausible than anyone else’s this year, but he has been trying to organize a grass-roots movement for years with little to show for it so far. Though he ran as a Republican in an effort to get his message to a wider audience, his views are really Libertarian. Unfortunately, our two-party system is so strong that voting for a third-party candidate you believe to be sincere often ends up helping the major-party candidate you wouldn’t have voted for in a million years. I know who I will vote for, but I always wish there were more choices (or better choices). I look forward to your future posts on this subject, because you have said you plan to address solutions.

    • Rebecca Hamilton

      I feel the same.
      “What discourages me, Rebecca, is when both choices seem to be “puppet politicians,” bought and paid for by well-heeled corporations and other entities interested only in furthering their own goals or lining their own pockets.”

      I am going to get to solutions. However they are more the blood, sweat and tears type of solution than the sit back with the remote and put your feet up type. Stay tuned, Virginia, and thanks for your input.

  • Arkenaten

    The equation is, again, a simple one:
    Democracy = We Are Responsible”"

    Hit the nail on the head, Rebecca. A country gets the government it deserves.

    • Rebecca Hamilton

      Thanks Douglas.

  • Dr. Peter John Resweber

    “We are Americans. We are a free people. That makes us responsible. We are responsible for what we chose to believe, how we chose to behave and whether or not we value our liberty enough to do the work and exercise the vigilance to keep it.”

    Now you’re talking, sister! :)

    It ain’t about “them”. It’s about “us”.

    This post reminds me of ‘someone’ ;) who recently wrote:

    “This country is STILL an experiment in moral self-rule. If we don’t yield to the forces of death and despair we can prevail. Pray. Seek God’s will. Vote accordingly. Convince others to do the same. With God all things ARE possible. This nation CAN be redeemed and place[d] back upon a righteous path. We can see to it “that this nation under God shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.”

    But, what if the good people surrender to cynicism and despair? Then (and only then) it is truly over.”

    • Arkenaten

      @ Dr Peter.
      Let’s hope the cyncism runs out before the oil then? Otherwise the divine help you so blithely assume is on your side may well have to double as a diviner.

      • Dr. Peter John Resweber

        “Faith is not belief without proof, but trust without reservations.” – Elton Trueblood

        • Arkenaten

          Never been a big fan of blind faith, to be honest. Must be a religious thing I guess.

          • Dr. Peter John Resweber

            Everybody felt it: a moment of eerie silence, a low rumble and then the ground began to shake. Buildings swayed and buckled, and then collapsed like houses of cards. Less than four minutes later, over thirty thousand were dead from a magnitude 8.2 earthquake that rocked and nearly flattened Armenia in 1989.

            In the muddled chaos, a distressed father bolted through the winding streets leading to the school where his son had gone earlier that morning. The man couldn’t stop thinking about the promise he’d given his son many times: “No matter what happens, Armand, I’ll always be there.”

            He reached the site where the school had been, but saw only a pile of rubble. He just stood there at first, fighting back tears, and then took off, stumbling over debris, toward the east corner where he knew his son’s classroom had been.

            With nothing but his bare hands, he started to dig. He was desperately pulling up bricks and pieces of wall plaster, while others stood by watching in forlorn disbelief. He heard someone growl, “Forget it, mister. They’re all dead.”

            He looked up, flustered, and replied, “You can grumble, or you can help me lift these bricks.” Only a few pitched in, and most of them gave up once their muscles began to ache. But the man couldn’t stop thinking about his son.

            He kept digging and digging – for hours…twelve hours…eighteen hours…twenty-four hours…thirty-six hours…. Finally, into the thirty-eighth hour, he heard a muffled groan from under a piece of wallboard.

            He seized the board, pulled it back, and cried, “ARMAND!” From the darkness came a slight shaking voice, “Papa…!?”

            Other weak voices began calling out, as the young survivors stirred beneath the still uncleared rubble. Gasps and shouts of bewildered relief came from the few onlookers and parents who remained. They found fourteen of the thirty-three students still alive.

            When Armand finally emerged, he tried to help dig, until all his surviving classmates were out. Everybody standing there heard him as he turned to his friends and said, “See, I told you my father wouldn’t forget us.”

            That’s the kind of faith we need, because that’s the kind of Father we have.

            (Opening paragraphs of ” A Father Who Keeps His Promises: God’s Covenant Love in Scripture” by Scott Hahn)

            • Arkenaten

              So it’s obvious that an atheist would not have even bothered digging, is this what you are trying to suggest?

              • Dr. Peter John Resweber

                Not at all.

                (I almost have to wonder if you are purposefully missing the point.)

                In any case, I am “trying to suggest” is that you ARE completely missing the point,

                You talk of faith as if it were about simple minded credulity.

                That is not what faith is about.

                Faith is about trusting in that which has been proven to be trustworthy.

                • Arkenaten

                  “Faith is about trusting in that which has been proven to be trustworthy.”

                  Ah, fair enough, Ted. Sorry about that. I misunderstood your interpretation which, incidently, doesn’t feature in any of the several dictionaries I have, but we’ll go with it if you like.
                  So, it’s a sort of ‘trust your gut’ type of thing? This i will agree with wholeheartedly and if this is what faith and trust is then we can quite happily disregard anything religieous as very little if any has ever proven trustworthy.

                • Arkenaten

                  Apologies, Peter. Wonder why I called you Ted? You’re the psychologist, I’m sure you could tell me.

                • Dr. Peter John Resweber

                  Re: “Faith is about trusting in that which has been proven to be trustworthy.”

                  Yup.

                  Re: “Ah, fair enough, Ted. Sorry about that. I misunderstood your interpretation which, incidently, doesn’t feature in any of the several dictionaries I have, but we’ll go with it if you like.”

                  I wonder if any of them have an adequate definition of love either?

                  Re: “So, it’s a sort of ‘trust your gut’ type of thing?”

                  Where did I say that? Trust what has proven trustworthy often goes against ‘your gut’. Consider the child in a burning building who trusts his father when he says, “Jump! I’ll catch you! You’ll be safe!” He has to disregard the temporary feeling of safety he has while hanging on to the ledge. He has to go contrary to instinct. But he does so because of his trust, his faith, in his father. In like manner and in the vignette, Armand, had every logical, gut instinct reason to despair. But, instead his experience had taught him to have faith that his father would come for him.

                  Re: “This i will agree with wholeheartedly and if this is what faith and trust is then we can quite happily disregard anything religieous as very little if any has ever proven trustworthy.”

                  …and with that statement you once again reveal that you’re really just a jerk and a bully whose goal is simply to antagonize (whose ego is more important to him than the truth). It seems this conversation is just about over and that it’s time to get out the troll spray again.

                  Re: “Apologies, Peter. Wonder why I called you Ted? You’re the psychologist, I’m sure you could tell me.”

                  Reference my previous response.

                  PSSSSSSSSSSSST!

                  Toodles.

                  ;)

                • Arkenaten

                  I did not say you said, trust your gut. I said it.

                  “I wonder if any of them have an adequate definition of love either?”
                  I have no doubt there are a couple you would disagree with.

                  Re: Your child jumping out of a burning building. If the kid’s dad had repeatedly dropped him on numerous occasions in the past the child would have every reason NOT to trust.

                  “…and with that statement you once again reveal that you’re really just a jerk and a bully whose goal is simply to antagonize (whose ego is more important to him than the truth). It seems this conversation is just about over and that it’s time to get out the troll spray again.”

                  Oh, dear, oh dear, Peter, did you have a bad day?
                  I doubt you would recognise truth if it sat up and bit you on the ankle.

                  Bully? LOL Oh you are a silly person You belong to a religion that had first dibs on bullying since Theodosius first came on the scene.

                  The converstion does seem over…again, yet you feel compelled to respond in your loquacious but often asinine fashion.

                • Dr. Peter John Resweber
            • Rebecca Hamilton

              This is great. Thank you Peter.

              • Dr. Peter John Resweber

                :)

    • Dr. Peter John Resweber

      Arkenaten,

      It seems that you’re getting progressively more frustrated with your inability to get under my skin.

      Maybe it’s time to give up the trolling?

      • Dr. Peter John Resweber

        PSSSSSSSSSSSSSSST!

      • Arkenaten

        RFLOL! You think so, Pete?

  • http://paulinesthoughts.com Pauline

    Rebecca,
    I received the below in an e-mail today. Have you heard of this? Is this just one of those things being passed around, or is it valid? I know that the UN gets into places I feel it has no business, and already one law from the Supreme Court cited laws outside of our nation as a reason something should happen. Any info. would be appreciated as I am highly concerned about this since I study the Bible with people through an encrypted Web site with people in countries their governments do not allow Bible study. (I posted this under this section since you mention that we need to be diligent to protect our freedoms.)
    ==
    A treaty signing ceremony has been scheduled in Dubai in December of 2012. I don’t have to elaborate on what this would mean to our efforts to spread the gospel, not to mention our personal freedom! Write and call your senators and congressmen. As you know, evil is victorious when we remain silent, so if we are not part of the solution, we are part of the problem.

    The world learned of these negotiations only because Jerry Brito and Eli Dourado, George Mason University researchers, set up a web site called WCITLeaks and encouraged anyone with knowledge of the negotiations to make an anonymous posting detailing their progress. Someone responded on June 12th of this year posting a 250 page synopsis of the proposed treaty and the talks surrounding it.

    The Treaty would provide:
    • The UN would distribute and assign all e-names.

    • Each country would be notified of the IP addresses of each email user within their borders (allowing China and Russia to track down dissidents).

    • The UN could regulate Internet content.

    • Every nation would have the right to censor web sites that originate in their country.

    • And every country could charge a surcharge for access to any web sites that originate beyond their borders.

    Vinton Cerf, one of the founders of the Internet and currently vice president of Google, has correctly warned that the “open Internet has never been at higher risk than it is now.” He notes that “if all of us don’t pay attention to what’s going on, users worldwide will be at risk of losing the open and free Internet that has brought so much to so many.”

    Meet Hamadoun Toure, the new wanna be boss of the Internet. Educated at the Leningrad Institute and at Moscow Technical University — both during the 80s — he is now the head of the International Telecommunications Union (ITU) of the United Nations. And he’s Vladimir Putin’s choice to run the Internet.

    Currently the ITU is a little known arm of the UN in charge of long distance phone calls and satellite orbits. But the negotiations now under way would vest it with enormous powers over the Internet.

    And yet, there is almost no coverage of this outrageous proposal and possible treaty in the media in the United States. The Wall Street Journal has warned that the proposal treaty could “use the International Telecommunications Regulations to take control of the Internet.”

    If we don’t rally to protect the Internet and stop this outrageous invasion of our liberties, we may lose it forever.

    • Rebecca Hamilton

      Pauline I don’t know. I’ll try to find out