Chick-fil-A Flustercluck: The Day After

“Had there been a Fox News back in 1960, I’m sure there would have been a Woolworth’s Lunch-counter Appreciation Day, too.”

“The people who organized boycotts of these bigots and the places they represented back then were similarly accused of ‘intolerance’ at the time.”

If Mike Huckabee had declared yesterday ‘Homeless Appreciation Day,’ would the response have been even half as large and loud?”

“It’s a systemic pattern of discrimination for a certain way of being a ‘family.'”

“Please stop redefining Christianity as a superficial cultural tribe that self-identifies through its particular tastes in facial hair, ‘relevant’ fashion, political stances, and the culture war loyalty test of the week.”

Bullying low-wage workers is never cool.

“‘I call it hater appreciation day,’ said Andrew, who asked that his last name be withheld out of fear he’d be fired. ‘It’s very, very depressing.'”

“Realize that behind this debate are real people — kids like the girl in Kentucky who fear for their safety, women like Sally Ride’s widow who are denied their spouse’s Social Security benefits.”

“Yes, Jane would know what you thought of her, and Jane would be right.”

To fear the anger and resentment of your neighbors for being who you are is not the freedom that the American dream promises.”

“Supporting the treatment of gays and lesbians as criminals is not compatible with being a free country with protection of freedom of speech, any more than slavery or segregation were.”

“One of the cases involved Aziz Latif, a former Chick-fil-A restaurant manager in Houston, who sued the company in 2002 because he was fired a day after refusing to participate in a group prayer to Jesus Christ at a company training program. Latif is a Muslim.”

A dog whistle-y way to say ‘God Hates Fags,’ topped with two pickles and served on a bun.”

Wayne Self: This isn’t about mutual tolerance because there’s nothing mutual about it.”

If we agree to disagree on this issue, you walk away a full member of this society and I don’t. There is no “live and let live” on this issue because Dan Cathy is spending millions to very specifically not let me live. I’m not trying to do that to him.

Asking for “mutual tolerance” on this like running up to a bully beating a kid to death on the playground and scolding them both for not getting along. I’m not trying to dissolve Mr. Cathy’s marriage or make his sex illegal. I’m not trying to make him a second-class citizen, or get him killed. He’s doing that to me, folks; I’m just fighting back.

All your life, you’re told to stand up to bullies, but when we do it, we’re told we are the ones being intolerant? Well, okay. Yes. I refuse to tolerate getting my ass kicked. “Guilty as charged.”

But what are you guilty of? When you see a bully beating up a smaller kid and you don’t take a side, then you are taking a side. You’re siding with the bully. And when you cheer him on, you’re revealing something about your own character that really is a shame.

Dallas Stevens: I was undone

As I spoke, I became overwhelmed and started to cry.

To my surprise, a woman who wore a “gay” American flag came to me and hugged me as to comfort me.

I was undone.

Here I was trying to show kindness, and it was being shown to me.

Although she had no idea that I am not a big hugger unless I know you and we are very close…

Either way, it set my heart on fire.

I still do not know how to process this.

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  • Jamoche

    I liked the first of Nolan’s Batman series but kind of bounced off the second. I’ve seen some reviews say that the third depends heavily on having detailed knowledge of both previous ones – how true is that? Will I like it despite not having seen all the second?

  • Jon Maki

    I can’t say whether or not you’ll like it, but I believe there’s enough exposition that you won’t be completely lost.

  • ako

     You need to know the main plot to both films to fully understand the third one, although you don’t necessarily have to have paid attention to every single scene in detail.  Depending on how you feel about the second one, I’d suggest either giving it another try or reading a fairly spoilery summary of what happened.

    (Interestingly enough, your reaction was very different from mine.  I liked the first one okay, but it didn’t wow me, while the second one, I loved to pieces.)

  • Jon Maki

    I’m kind of the same way.  I mean, I really enjoyed Begins, but not so much that I was prepared for how much I loved, loved, LOVED The Dark Knight.

    I think I need to see TDKR again to decide where I’d rank it.  Above Begins, certainly, but most likely below the second film. 

    I may actually like it more, though.  I suspect that’s because I’m being charitable, in that I knew going in that it wouldn’t have anything like Heath Ledger’s amazing performance, so I granted it some preemptive good will to offset that, but also because it tells exactly the kind of Batman story I love.  (Which is to say, without being spoilery, I think, given the movie’s title, it features Batman being utterly defeated and then coming back stronger than before.)

  • Wingedwyrm

    My own ranking.

    Batman Begins was a good movie and it was a different kind of Batman movie, because it made the superhero a character study.  That stuff about his training, what he went through as someone operating with no money and no Wayne family name to protect him before he got his training, it made the superhero a person doing a superhero job.  Good movie, I’d say necessary movie that deepens my appreciation for other good batman movies (including the ones with Michael Keaten).

    The Dark Knight.  The best movie of the trilogy.  Thanks in majority part to the characters of The Joker, Harvey Dent, and Commisioner Gordon.  The only problem I have is that it didn’t make the best use of Two Face.  TwoFace, I believe, is the badguy that should have been the badguy of this final of the trilogy.  That would have required a different story.

    The Dark Knight Rises.  Better Bane than I’ve seen.  Based on Ann Hathaway’s physical appearance, I had assumed at first that she’d be Poison Ivey (but superpowers don’t really work in this Batman iteration).  She made a much better Catwoman than I thought she would.  Particularly the turning on and off of “helpless woman mode”.  In general, this is somewhere between TDK and BB, but closer to BB.

    On another note, next summer we will be seeing a movie entitled “The Man of Steel”.  Based on the trailer I saw in TDKR, it’s going to be going into a character study of the making of Batman, which Smallville showed there is a real audience for.  I hope they give it the same… organic feel that Batman Begins did.

    And, in general, I’m hoping that one of the female members of the Justice League gets this kind of viewing.  Wonder Woman, Hawkwoman, even Batgirl would be a good idea.

  • Formerconservative

    I would have loved to see Mr. Freeze in the Nolan-verse played by Anthony Hopkins.   Hopkins as Victor Fries.  Tilda Swinton as Nora Fries.   It would be amazing!

    Also Patrick Stewart would make an excellent Hugo Strange and Robin Williams would make a damn good Mad Hatter.

  • Wingedwyrm

    The only, and this really the only problem I can imagine with your idea, is that this would take so many movies to do right and the audience for those movies can lose attention span.

    Beyond that, you had me at Anthony Hopkins.  Victor Fries needs to be both creepy and heartbreakingly tragic to be done well (as he was in Batman: The Animated Series.)

  • Matri

    Victor Fries needs to be both creepy and heartbreakingly tragic to be done well (as he was in Batman: The Animated Series.)

    Did you watch the Batman Beyond episode “Meltdown”? You won’t be disappointed. Fries’ tragedy is absolutely heartbreaking.

  • Rowen

    The people at Pajiba are really angry no one picked up Kristen Bell to do Harley Quinn.

  • Formerconservative

    I think that the Nolan/Ledger Joker’s Harley Quinn would be more suited to be played by Helena Bonham Carter.

  • Rowen

     Eh, I’m kinda tired of Helena Bonham Carter, even though I do like her. Her older stuff shows much more subtlety that she’s lacked since she became apart of the DeppBurtonCarter beast.

    Plus, you need a . . . broad to play Harley. I can’t see Helena Bonham Carter delivering this line with the same type of. . . something.

  • Kubricks_Rube

    In light of the Sherry’s claims, this seems a good time to post Rob Tsiani’s video, “Protect the Children (and mean it)”. Money quote:

    The vast majority of men who abuse boys either aren’t attracted to adults of either gender, or are straight men with an emotional disturbance that sends them regressing back to kids. In study after study, only the tiniest fraction of these abusers show interest in adult men, a percentage well below the fraction of openly gay men in society.  That’s why the American Psychological Association testified to the US Senate: “There is no evidence that homosexuals are more likely than heterosexuals to molest children.”

    Some of our opponents don’t care about this distinction. Peter LaBarbera says, “Who cares if a guy is married? If he’s into molesting boys, that’s homosexual behavior.”

    Who cares? Really?

    First off, when we’re talking about marriage equality, gay adoption, Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, we’re talking about openly gay men. So it doesn’t make any sense fight us with stats about abusers who are married to women. But here’s the big point. When our opponents demonize openly gay men and dishonestly put the spotlight on us, they’re letting the real abusers to hide in the darkness. And continue their abuse. This shows their real agenda. They feel a greater need to demonize gays than to protect kids from the real danger. They’re literally sacrificing children to their own homophobia.

  • Lliira

    Content note: rape, pedophilia, rape culture

    In all this talk about pedophilia and molesting boys, people forget how many girls are victims of rape. One in four girls is sexually abused before she reaches the age of 14. And frankly, that statistic looks low to me.

    38% of girls are sexually abused before the age of 18. (Again, WAY low. I think it’s more like 70-80%. It’s hardly ever reported. None of my friends reported their assaults to their parents or anyone else in authority — except for the one who was 3 when it happened. Her parents believed her, but they didn’t care.)  16% of boys are abused before the age of 18. Now, I think that statistic is also unrealistically low, but I’ve had as many close male as female friends and none of them has ever told me he was sexually abused, so I won’t hazard a guess as to how low it is.

    Here’s a quote from that link: “Three out of four children who were victimized were female.”

    Sexual abuse against girls and women is so incredibly common that people just skip over it. Besides the obvious problems with that, doing that gives frothing homophobes like our recent troll something to latch onto, associating “pedophilia” with “raping boys” rather than “raping children, no matter their gender, and more often girls than boys.”

    Oh and also: “Those inmates who were convicted of committing violent acts against children were more like to have been white, a percentage of nearly 70%, than any other race.” 

  • Patrick McGraw

    Yeah, the Return of the Joker Director’s Cut is much, much better. 

    Out of Batmans: TAS, the Mr. Freeze arc was fantastic, but I also really love Clayface’s introductory episodes. The animation by TMS in Part 2 is some of the greatest TV animation I’ve ever seen.

    I quite liked The Dark Knight Rises, but I’ll need to see it a second time to get a more developed opinion of it. I appreciated the themes that it dealt with, but there were still some major problems for me.

    One that simply snapped my disbelief suspenders was that for a series that keeps pretending to be more “realistic” than most superhero stories, Batman was just as much a Doc Savage “non-powered superhuman” as in any Justice League story where he survives a punch from Darkseid. Especially when a big deal is made over injuries that disappear three scenes later and then have no more effect on the film.

    The other was that at the beginning of the film, we learn that Bruce quit being Batman at the end of The Dark Knight, and became a complete shut-in to the point that he was unaware of the Wayne Foundation’s funding problems. While this is in-character for Batman as he’s been developed in this series – whose motivations are primarily about his own pain – it’s not the Batman a like to watch or read about.

    My favorite Batman scene ever, the one that really encapsulates Batman for me, is from the Justice League Unlimited episode “Epilogue:”

    (for context, 50 years in the future government agent Amanda Waller is explaining to Batman’s successor Terry McGinnis how she came around in her view of Batman. Ace is a metahuman who Waller’s secret agency kidnapped and experimented on as a child.)

  • Matri

    Ace is a metahuman who Waller’s secret agency kidnapped and experimented on as a child.

    Well, Project Cadmus has always had a, uhm… “slight” ethical issues.

  • Wingedwyrm

    I loved that part of the epilog.  One of the details that also stands out for me is where we get bits from Batman Beyond and we find that Bruce Wayne has given so much of himself to his (to use a phrase coined in a article) batmanishinanigans that he’s left a bitter old man with no joys left in life.  He’d let so much else fall away, including a strong romantic subplot between himself and Wonder Woman, that he’s nothing but batman anymore.

    I liked that they did both, showing that Batman was someone who ould empathize so with those that have lost, but couldn’t quite ever stop being anything other than someone defined by his loss.

    Gave the guy depth.

  • Jon Maki

    The scene from “Epilogue” is excellent.

    “Return of the Joker” is also excellent.

    Of the non-comics Batman stories…hm.  I love “Mask of the Phantasm” a whole hell of a lot, so that’s a pretty strong contender. 

    In particular, this scene stands out.

    And, of course…

    Bruce:  You think you know everything about me, don’t you?
    Alfred:  I diapered your bottom; I bloody well ought to…sir.

    In the comics, I think Year One is my all-time favorite story, but I have a certain fondness for “To Kill A Legend” from Detective Comics #500.  From the description I wrote up for my blog a while ago:

    As the anniversary of his parents’ death approaches, Batman receives a visit from the mysterious Phantom Stranger who informs him that, just as history repeated itself on Earth 1 decades after the murder of Thomas and Martha Wayne on Earth 2, so too is the young Bruce Wayne of yet another Earth about to lose the two most important people in his life.  The Stranger offers Batman the opportunity to travel to that world and break the cycle.  On a world without heroes, will Batman choose to spare this younger version of himself the pain he knows all too well, even if it means robbing that world of its own Batman?

    What really makes the story phenomenal is that Robin, who accompanies Batman, discovers that Krypton never existed in this reality, there is no Paradise Island, no Barry Allen, no Hal Jordan, no Oliver Queen, etc.  In fact, this Earth doesn’t have any sort of heroic tradition at all.  No myths about ancient heroes, no tales of Robin Hood, or Zorro.  Unless Thomas and Marth Wayne die, the world may never know what it’s like to have heroes.

    I also can’t see Helena Bonham Carter as Harley.  More to the point, I wouldn’t want to. 

  • Patrick McGraw


    I also can’t see Helena Bonham Carter as Harley.  More to the point, I wouldn’t want to.

    Same here. I’d love to see Fairuza Balk in the role.

  • Wingedwyrm

    Oh, sorry, the cracked article actually said “shinanibatmanigans”.  Every so often, I repeat that word to myself ’cause… funny!

  • W33B33 weebee

     Yeah, some made up words are just fun. My favorite so far would have to be from a group that makes fun of the Twilight novels, where they describe werewolf transformations as “Fursploding.”

    For an example that I’m not quoting, “So then, Jacub gets really mad and Fursplodes.”

    Just watched the animated “Red Hood” thing. Also, am being reminded of a lot of great moments I’ve forgotten about. Even if this was an anti-troll conversation change on a serious topic, I quite enjoyed it anyways.

  • Patrick McGraw


    Just watched the animated “Red Hood” thing.

    I really like Batman: Under The Red Hood. It’s probably my favorite of the DC Originals. My only real problem with it is that Bruce Greenwood’s Batman just sounds like a Kevin Conroy impression, which makes me wish Conroy had done the film instead. John DiMaggio’s Joker was a total surprise, and very effective. Jensen Ackles also showed a great deal of skill as a voice actor – something that many screen actors have a lot of trouble with.

    The best thing about the film, to me, was how it took a flawed comic story and fixed the flaws, dropping the crossover tie-ins and replacing them with established elements of Batman’s history. And for being easily the darkest DC Original film, it’s remarkably funny.

  • W33B33 weebee

     I’ll agree with you for the most part, but I was so used to Mark Hammel as the Joker that I kept catching myself thinking “Who the heck is this guy?” a lot.

  • Jon Maki

    I thought Greenwood did fine, though I am of the opinion that Conroy should always do the voice of Batman anyway.

    Certainly better than whatever Baldwin it ws that did his voice in Crisis on Two Earths.

    I also think that Bruce Greenwood has sort of grown into the role a bit more as he continues to provide the voice on Young Justice.  In fact, his is pretty much the only voice work I have no complaints about on YJ.

    Unrelated question:  Has anyone else noticed that there’s a considerable lag between typing and letters in the commen field when you reply to a comment?  I also see it completely ignore keystrokes.  (I just had to hit “r” four times to get it to stop saying “ignoe,” for example.)

  • Formerconservative

    When I read Batman comics, I hear Conroy and Mark Hamill in my head.

    Also I never really liked the Penguin as a villain that much, but everything about the Arkham City version of the Penguin is awesome and scary: 

    I like that he has a beer bottle stuck in his eye instead of a monocle.

  • Patrick McGraw


    I thought Greenwood did fine, though I am of the opinion that Conroy should always do the voice of Batman anyway.

    It’s probably a sign of my generation that most DC characters sound like their DCAU voice actors in my head. (Especially Kevin Conroy’s Batman, Mark Hamill’s Joker, Dana Delaney’s Lois Lane, and Clancy Brown’s Lex Luthor.)

    I know I’m far from the only one – Gail Simone has stated that Black Canary sounds like Morena Baccarin in her head because of JLU.

  • Sgt. Pepper’s Bleeding Heart

    You guys, I’m looking for a computer programmer to work with me on a business venture.

    I have an idea for an app that will be able to be applied to any and all blogs on the internet. When a troll trudges in, the app will generate a bunch of reply posts engaging said troll in what we shall loosely call their “argument”. It will do so under a bunch of different names so troll will think it has successfully baited people. Reply posts will contain direct quotations from troll posts followed by a couple of lines of refutation, so troll will reply to these as the fight heats up. The app will generate reply posts at a sufficient rate to keep troll stuck to the computer and away from the rest of society, but not so fast as to overwhelm troll into giving up. The app will also make both troll posts and reply posts invisible so the rest of the forum won’t have to jump over the crap.

    I am confident that the roll-out of this software will net me the Nobel Prize for Peace.

  • Wingedwyrm

    You just know that someone will just come up with auto-trolling software.

  • Dave

     Could we implement kill files first?

  • Sgt. Pepper’s Bleeding Heart

    Well, sure, if you’re aiming low. The genius of my plan is that it would keep the trolls occupied fighting imaginary people on the internet, thus saving actual human beings from having to interact with them. This is where it becomes a benefit to society as a whole, not just those of us in the blogosphere.

  • Dave

    (nods) Clever.

    Admittedly, it’s clever like a gadget to automatically reward my dog for chewing on table legs is. 

  • Lori


    Admittedly, it’s clever like a gadget to automatically reward my dog for chewing on table legs is.  

    Isn’t it more clever like a gadget to make your dog think he’s being rewarded for chewing on table legs, which he loves but you hate because it wrecks your table, when he’s actually just messing with that chunk of old rawhide that you’re fine with him chewing to bits because giving the dog something to chew is its purpose?

  • Dave

    Isn’t it more clever like a gadget to make your dog think he’s being rewarded for chewing on table legs

    I can see where it might be, if I valued watching trolls argue.

    But I don’t.

    So without some way of protecting myself from it (e.g., comment filtering), it would make the space more unpleasant for me. And insofar as trolls find argument rewarding, it would encourage still more of the behavior I find unpleasant.

    Of course, I understand that some people do value that sort of thing. Which I’m not in any way objecting to, I’m just saying it’s just not my cup of tea personally.

    But for them, sure, using such an automated argument-with-troll generator might be analogous to training my dog (who is, incidentally, female) to chew on innocuous rawhide rather than damaging a table I value.

  • Lori


    I can see where it might be, if I valued watching trolls argue.  

    But one of the features was that the rest of us wouldn’t have to see the posts because they’d be filtered out of the main thread. I think that was one of the major points of the idea. The ap keeps the troll busy and away from the rest of us so that we can continue to have conversation that doesn’t include trolls.

    The closest real world equivalent is a the block that Disqus refuses to implement as an option, but even that only keeps you from seeing the posts of the user you’ve blocked. It doesn’t keep you from seeing all the responses to those posts and it doesn’t do much to stop thread derails. Having an ap to basically keep the troll over in the corner so that the grown-ups can talk would actually be quite nice.

  • Dave


    one of the features was that the rest of us wouldn’t have to see the posts because they’d be filtered out of the main thread

    Ah! I guess I missed that part. In that case, sure… I’m all for it. Protects us, and presumably Fred gains from the increased traffic. Win-win.

  • Jamoche

    I miss Usenet clients – get one sophisticated enough and not only could you plonk someone, you could filter out any replies to them. And your client could keep track of read and unread posts, deeply nested replies never ended up 1 character wide because the programmer set a maximum screen width…

  • Jessica_R

    Coming in late to the fantasy casting party with I think Eva Green would’ve made a fantastic Harley Quinn. And Dark Knight Rises has grown on me such to be my surprise favorite of the three. I never thought I’d say Anne Hathaway stole a movie but she totally did. 

  • The Guest That Posts

    You know, Sherry Levine doesn’t believe anything s/he says about gay and bisexual people.

    I realise this is quite a claim, and not one I would make lightly; I tend to assume that people are honest in their convictions, even those convictions I don’t agree with. But from the way Sherry keeps moving the goalposts, posting made-up claims about the crime rate in the QUILTBAG community, and flat out failing to understand the responses of other posters, my only conclusion is this: Sherry’s only purpose in this conversation is to rile us up. S/he couldn’t care less about QUILTBAG people, abusing them is just a convenient stick to poke us with.


  • Patrick McGraw

     Indeed, especially given that the majority of her responses are nothing but “I know you are, but what am I?”

    Which indicates to me that she is either a troll or a second-grader.

  • PJ Evans

     Hse must have mirrors on all hir walls with window frames around them, so hse never sees reality.

  • Dave

    Yeah, I’m never sure about this.

    Maybe they really do believe that those of us who aren’t heterosexual are differentially evil. I mean, it’s clear that they’ve declared us their enemy, and believing our enemies evil is easy. Lots of people do that.

    Maybe they do believe that blogs like this one, which promote the idea that sexuality is orthogonal to sin, are therefore evil in turn. “The friend of my enemy is my enemy” is pretty standard thinking; hell, even non-human animals are capable of it.

    And maybe they believe that their task is to oppose the enemy, rather than to understand us or engage with us as people. To confound our strategems and poison our wells, to make us spend our energy on battling them rather than pursuing our own agendas, to make our experience so unpleasant that we lose our will. Again, that’s pretty common; I have plenty of allies who have basically this attitude.

    I dunno.

    And ultimately it doesn’t really matter to me.

    I don’t need to know what’s in their hearts to make decisions about what effects they’re having. I judge their net effect negative: their own comments are at best unhelpful and more often hurtful, and the combative tone they inspire in others is not something I value.

    Ultimately, what actually matters to me is they make this space worse by their presence. Whether they do so out of a sincere belief that I and those like me are an enemy who deserves such treatment, or simply out of the same urge that causes cruel children to toss rocks at leashed dogs, I don’t really know… but I’m not sure it matters.

  • Formerconservative

    Sherry needs to get a few hobbies.   We should take up a collection and buy her an Xbox.

  • ako

    44!  Sherry is really raising funds for marriage equality today!

  • ConservativeWhitebread

    Are we puppets, or is SherryLevine?  META.

  • PJ Evans

    I guess troll has gone back under hir bridge for a nap.

  • ako

    And that puts us at an even 50.

  • ako

    Once again, a post snuck in under the wire. 51.

  • Rhubarbarian82

    Once again, a post snuck in under the wire. 51.

    I’m gonna call mine at 55, then. Congratulations, Sherry, I hope you’re proud of your donations.

  • SherryLevine

     :-) Did you hear that several politicians who respect civil rights went to CFA and sent Rahm their receipts?

  • Jared Bascomb

    ETA in response to Sherry’s comment: 
    Lying about what other people think is not particularly a sign of intelligence.

  • Jared Bascomb

    Our Sherry seems to have a connection between widespread violence and the LGBT community and/or liberals in general, and that those crimes are essentially covered up. I offer this as a (possibly anecdotal) response:

    Two weeks ago, my city held its Pride Parade and Festival. By most accounts, nearly 200,000 people attended. Many of them were LGBT, many were not. It was held in the part of the city that has the highest LGBT population density.

    By Sherry’s reasoning – that there are millions of LGBT people committing violent crimes – the event took place in the most violence-ridden part of our city. We should have been overrun with violence.

    But guess what? There were *no* arrests for violent crime that weekend in the immediate vicinity of the events and that were related to that event.

    Two explanations:

    1) The weekend’s LGBT Pride events were peaceful, and no arrests occurred
    2) There were murders, robberies, rapes (both same- and opposite-sex), child molesations, and other horrible crimes galore but the Police and ~200K witnesses, including the media, saw and ignored these criminal activities and actively covered them up and let the perps go free.

    If our Sherry chooses the latter, she’s clearly delusional and I think she needs professional help, the sooner the better. 

    What’s the dollar amount up to? I’m willing to prolong this thread to maximize my contribution . . . And GLSEN is also a really good place to donate.

  • SherryLevine

     There you go. You are completely ignorant about stats on all crimes, but don’t let that stop you calling me crazy. You’re too clever to do anything else.

  • No-one

    Can you show us these stats please?

    Because so far, after half a hundred posts calling us haters, you have yet to even provide a made-up number.

  • SherryLevine

    You know, I have research data that shows that people who are too stupid to look up a stat on their own can’t understand them.
    You can always prove me wrong, if you’d like. But so far, after years of research, I have been proven right so far every single time.
    Empirically tested, never fails, like the force of gravity. I think this blog will provide yet more data confirming my previous findings.

  • PJ Evans

     Based on your previous posts, you don’t understand it.
    Dunnin-Kruger FTW!

  • ConservativeWhitebread

    Now now, let’s not try to push facts on SherryLevine.  Clearly they’re all false and based on bahahahahahahaaa

    oh man.

  • Jared Bascomb

    >>You know, I have research data that shows that people who are too stupid to look up a stat on their own can’t understand them. 
    You can always prove me wrong, if you’d like. But so far, after years of research, I have been proven right so far every single time.<>Empirically tested, never fails, like the force of gravity. I think this blog will provide yet more data confirming my previous findings.<<Confirmation bias, much?

  • Jared Bascomb

    Re-editing because cut&paste doesn’t seem to work right now:
    SHERRY: You know, I have research data that shows that people who are too stupid to look up a stat on their own can’t understand them. 
    You can always prove me wrong, if you’d like. But so far, after years of research, I have been proven right so far every single time.
    RESPONSE: But you haven’t proven yourself right, despite numerous opportunities to do so.SHERRY: Empirically tested, never fails, like the force of gravity. I think this blog will provide yet more data confirming my previous findings.RESPONSE: Confirmation bias, much? 

  • Jared Bascomb

    >>There you go. You are completely ignorant about stats on all crimes, but don’t let that stop you calling me crazy. You’re too clever to do anything else.<<
    Sherry, I pointed out a REAL situation in YOUR violence-ridden world, where NO violence – even of the mildest kind – occurred, and you're calling me out on how *clever* I am on crime statistics?
    There were ~200,000 violent-crime inclined people (according to you) in attendance in an area that you claim should be violent-crime infested, and NO arrests for violent crime during the Pride Parade and Festival, occurred.Are you asserting that there were all sorts of violent crimes committed that weekend and *everyone* – all ~200K people present – ignored them? A huge conspiracy among ~200K people AND the Police AND the local media (including FoxNews) to cover up a massive outbreak of violent crimes committed by LGBT people? If so, Sherry, you need help. You really do. I don't know where you live, or what your upbringing has been, but it's apparent that you fear a boogeyman behind every door, under every bed, and that that boogey(wo)man is  a queerperson.

    Really – get help. Or you're going to wind up as That Crazy Lady Down the Street.

    BTW, I never called you crazy, but thanks for calling me "clever". I take that as a compliment – I can solve some pretty complicated crossword puzzles in under 20 mintes. You, on the other hand, are an ignoramus.  

  • ako

    52 as of the time you asked, 61 as of now.  (If the number gets high enough, I’m also bowing out, but I’m actually finding this kind of an interesting personal challenge in trying to determine how high I can go and have it be an affordable donation, as opposed to a “Not even causing myself minor financial inconvenience” donation.

    Obviously, this is a different line for everyone, and we appear to have  persistent troll, so anyone else joining feel free to bow out wherever your personal line is.)

  • Jared Bascomb

    I may go so far as to match the contributions in response to Sherry. 

  • Invisible Neutrino

    ako: Where are you donating, again?

  • ako


  • SherryLevine

    Where is Fearlesson? I was waiting for him to come back and lecture me on how HORRIBLE my views on rights were… I guess he’s busy – I’m sure he won’t disappoint later though… 

  • FearlessSon

    Where is Fearlesson? I was waiting for him to come back and lecture me on how HORRIBLE my views on rights were… I guess he’s busy – I’m sure he won’t disappoint later though… 

    I am flattered that you thought of me in my absence.  You are also correct in your speculation that I was busy.  Per your expectation, I will try not to disappoint, though I think your assumption of what I would say is a bit off.  

    Actually, I am pleased that you brought up the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.  It is actually what I was thinking of when I was asking you what human rights are earlier, but I did not want to lead the question too obviously.  While there is room for some disagreements on the fine details of what constitutes a human right, the UDHR seems like a good guideline in this case, insofar as it is generally agreed on by a wide diversity of nations and cultures.  

    I feel that this is important because debate is impossible unless all sides of the issue have some central agreed upon ideas around which to argue.  Otherwise, you just have two sides talking past each other rather than to each other.  I am glad that you were the one to bring up the UDHR, as it shows that we have more in common than might be assumed.  

    By way of example, you have expressed disgust and horror at the prospect of things like rape and pedophilia.  On this, I do not think you will find much disagreement from the people here.  I would even be willing to wager that virtually all the people in this blog community hate those things as much as you do.  I for one support the strictest of penalties for such heinous crimes.  I would certainly not condemn your values for opposing anyone who would violate another person’s informed consent.  In this, I believe that we have shared values.  

    However, where I think that we differ is in set logic.  There are pedophiles and rapists in society, we agree on that fact.  A fraction of those pedophiles and rapists identify as non-heterosexual, this is also true.  But the rest of those pedophiles and rapists are, logically, self-identified as heterosexual.  That is to say, I assert that rape and pedophilia are issues all their own, which do not share a relationship with a perpetrator’s sexual orientation.  

    To put it as a modus tollens, “If the rate of rapists and/or pedophiles is not substantially different among non-heterosexuals than it is among heterosexuals, then rape and pedophilia are issues independent of sexual orientation.  The rate of rapists and pedophiles is not substantially different among non-heterosexuals than it is among heterosexuals.  Therefor, rape and pedophilia are not related to a person’s sexual orientation.”

    Modus vivendi.

  • ConservativeWhitebread

    Hey SherryLevine!

    So what are your thoughts on yaoi

  • Jared Bascomb

    @Whoever referred to Sherry as Aunursa’s sister — That’s just wrong. 

  • PJ Evans

     True. Aunursa is smarter and can actually answer questions.

  • Jared Bascomb

    Yep. Comparing this troll to Aunursa does a disservice to Aunursa.

    AND Aunursa’s dissed her.

  • PJ Evans

    The only ‘homosexuality agenda’ I’ve ever heard of was ‘do laundry, do grocery shopping, mow lawn, make sure kids do homework’  and so on.

  • Jared Bascomb

    You forgot Take out the cat-litterbox. It’s one of the uglies of gay life.

  • PJ Evans

     I was figuring that and ‘paying property taxes’ came under ‘and so on’.

  • jclor

    You know, I have research data that shows that people who are too stupid to look up a stat on their own can’t understand them. 

    Short: people who make claims but don’t provide citations are idiots.

    This person is obviously mentally ill, because she is now trolling herself.

  • W33B33 weebee

    Reply to Ursula L.

    Yeah, I remember sitting back and watching old stuff like Lost In Space, and this show about a submarine with a bright yellow submersible stealth jet. Completely different feel from stuff today, and I’d imagine that some people simply couldn’t get into it just through the production value and acting style differences of the older shows.

    Basically, though, I figure if you can watch the old BSG, other than Battlestar 1980, and not cringe, old style Who shouldn’t be a problem.

    Reply to SherryLevine

    On a significantly less pleasant topic, I’ve attempted to look up Homosexual V. Heterosexual crime statistics, but in attempting to be completely fair in the search haven’t found anything that both I and SherryLevine can say is relatively free of Bias. I checked the world fact book and a few other Federal sources, but it seems that they usually don’t ask the sexual orientation of the criminals they arrest.

    Perhaps I could cross-reference a violent crime rate map with a map of homosexual concentrations in the country, but that wouldn’t be very reliable since factors other than the sexual orientation of the people involved will surely be different and some people may be lying about their sexual orientation. The test doesn’t really fit the scientific method.

    I’m afraid I’m stumped here. If you aren’t willing to provide me with exact statistics, perhaps a location or a good tactic for searching for them would be acceptable. Though I must say that I rather object to the “You’re too stupid to understand so I’m not going to share my findings” line of argument, especially in a field as relatively easy to understand as statistical analysis.

  • Ursula L

    Basically, though, I figure if you can watch the old BSG, other than Battlestar 1980, and not cringe, old style Who shouldn’t be a problem. 

    It’s not a problem if you know what you’re getting into.

    But if, as I suggested, you’ve just sprinted through seasons 5&6 of new Who, in order to be able to jump in when the new episodes start, you could find yourself quite confused if you don’t know the history of the franchise and you decide to go back to the very beginning.

    Slow paced half-hour episodes, in black and white, put together into multi-episode stories.  With half the episodes missing.  

    It’s not just a matter of being comfortable with television production styles from half a century ago.  It’s knowing that you’ll be negotiating your way through a sort of historical or anthropological archive, with some parts carefully saved, some that have been painstakingly reconstructed from fragments, and some that you’ll have a hard time getting your hands on at all. 

    Comfort with other science fiction of the time will help with some issues of pacing and style.  It’s the missing episodes that are really an issue for someone wanting to start from the beginning.  

    It’s almost its own art form, when an audio track, still photographs, snippets of silent film from when someone pointed their 8mm camera at their television screen, and whatever else they can find, are put together, by people working from memory of what they saw decades ago, to try and tell a story.   

  • W33B33 weebee

     Ah, yes. Completely forgot how much of Old Who has vanished into the darkness. I stand corrected.

  • Formerconservative

    Most of the missing episodes are available as “audio books” which are basically the sound (all of the missing episodes still have audio available mostly due to nerdy kids in the 60’s with tape recorders) from the episodes with some narration edited in by one of the actors.

  • Hummingwolf

    If someone is arguing against same-sex marriage, is sexual orientation even relevant?  After all, the person doesn’t want any person of any orientation to marry someone of the same sex.  So it would seem that the statistics to look at would be the crime rates among, say, men married to men vs. men married to women.  This would mean you’ll have to look at crime rates outside of the US in places where SSM has been legal for a while if you want a good sample size.

    Alternatively, maybe you should look at the crime rates of single people vs. married people.  It may turn out to be the case that, if we want to reduce crime, we need to ban marriage entirely–at least if we’re taking troll-logic to be the only kind of reasoning that matters.

  • Shay Guy

    we sh0uld reply t0 tr0lls in character as the h0mestuck tr0lls matching 0ur 0wn astr0l0gical signs

  • W33B33 weebee

     LOL. I’d like to inform you that you just made my Text to speach reader have a heart attack. Also, I’d go along with you but I don’t follow Homestuck so I’d be totally lost.

  • Formerconservative

    After playing some Fallout New Vegas this morning, I’ve decided that internet trolls would be more entertaining if the mental voice I use when I read their posts is that of a super mutant: 

  • Consumer Unit 5012

    we sh0uld reply t0 tr0lls in character as the h0mestuck tr0lls matching 0ur 0wn astr0l0gical signs


    D–> And furthermore, I would have to type like this guy.

  • EllieMurasaki

    Not to mention I’d have to read Homestuck. I am a little afraid of reading Homestuck Haven’t figured out why.

    Hey, if we’re gonna play the deliberately-off-topic card, –trailer for Fistful of Rupees, in which Legend of Zelda is reimagined as a Western. I am dying to see this.

  • ConservativeWhitebread

    Where are yoooou SherryLevine come at me bro

  • W33B33 weebee

    This thread may or may not be dead, but….

    Found something. This factsheet, I believe, is where the local troll got her HIV facts. Turned out to be a lot easier to find than the data on violent crimes, and also seems to support her claims with the understanding of the data I’ve got, but also seems to state that the increased vulnerability is primarily an issue of not getting the right information, for example, see the percentage of infectees who don’t know they’re infected or do not know of prevention issues.

    Let me make it clear, I do not know anything about this. I’m Canadian, and the only places I’ve heard of the CDC are during reports of SARS stuff and while playing Syphon filter, so I’m not gunna go one way or the other on this, just throwing it up here so you guys can get a look at the data.

  • PJ Evans

     I gather from reading it that it’s intended for public distribution, to inform those most at risk. CDC is pretty solid as a source – but those numbers are a small percentage of the US population, much less than 1 percent.

  • ako

    Given the silence from the troll, I’m going to call a final total.

    Thanks to the inspiring Sherry Levine, I have now donated precisely sixty-one dollars to the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation.