No, no, no — we were fine with D’Souza’s racism, but the adultery is upsetting

LifeWay Christian book stores still carry Dinesh D’Souza’s books. For now.

The journalistic scoop belongs to Warren Cole Smith of the very conservative World magazine, so we’ll quote from his report first:

About 2,000 people gathered on Sept. 28 at First Baptist North in Spartanburg, S.C., to hear high-profile Christians speak on defending the faith and applying a Christian worldview to their lives. Among the speakers: Eric Metaxas, Josh McDowell, and — keynote speaker for the evening — best-selling author, filmmaker, and Christian college president Dinesh D’Souza.

Dinesh D’Souza says anti-colonialism is un-American. He even says this in D.C., in a city named after George Washington.

D’Souza’s speech earned him a standing ovation and a long line at the book-signing table immediately afterward. Although D’Souza has been married for 20 years to his wife, Dixie, in South Carolina he was with a young woman, Denise Odie Joseph II,* and introduced her to at least three people as his fiancée.

Finally, near 11 p.m., event organizer Tony Beam escorted D’Souza and Joseph to the nearby Comfort Suites. Beam noted that they checked in together and were apparently sharing a room for the night in the sold-out hotel. The next morning, around 6 a.m., Beam arrived back at the hotel and called up to D’Souza’s room. “We’ll be down in 10 minutes,” D’Souza told Beam. D’Souza and Joseph came down together, and Beam took them to the airport.

The next day another conference organizer, Alex McFarland, distressed by D’Souza’s behavior, confronted him in a telephone conversation. D’Souza admitted he shared a room with his fiancée but said “nothing happened.” When I called D’Souza, he confirmed that he was indeed engaged to Joseph, but did not explain how he could be engaged to one woman while still married to another. When asked when he had filed for divorce from his wife, Dixie, D’Souza answered, “Recently.”

Amy Sullivan describes “The Right-wing Rivalry Behind” that scoop:

Needless to say, this sort of thing is frowned upon in the conservative religious circles in which D’Souza is usually celebrated. So it is perhaps unsurprising that the story was broken by Warren C. Smith, a writer and associate publisher for the evangelical World magazine. The publication has a history of covering problems within the evangelical world, and it has not shied away from stories about preacher scandals or church abuse of women. But this particular story may have interested the magazine for a different reason: World’s editor-in-chief is Marvin Olasky, the sometime Bush advisor who is no fan of D’Souza.

Olasky served, briefly, as provost of The King’s College. He resigned shortly after D’Souza became the school’s president. Read the whole thing for Sullivan’s take on the nasty history between these two nasty men.

Christianity Today’s report notes that “D’Souza has regularly appeared in CT’s pages.” One example of that is CT’s report on D’Souza’s hiring at King’s, which emphasized that the conservative activist’s Roman Catholic faith should not preclude him from membership in the evangelical tribe:

D’Souza’s wife, Dixie, is an evangelical, and the family has attended Calvary Chapel, a nondenominational evangelical church in San Diego, for the past 10 years. He has been invited to speak in several churches and colleges, including Rick Warren’s Saddleback Church and Jerry Falwell’s Liberty University.

“I do not describe myself as Catholic today. But I don’t want to renounce it either because it’s an important part of my background. I’m an American citizen, but I wouldn’t reject the Indian label because it’s part of my heritage,” D’Souza said. “I say I have a Catholic origin or background. I say I’m a nondenominational Christian, and I’m comfortable with born-again.”

He said that his views align with the Apostles’ Creed and C. S. Lewis’s Mere Christianity.

That’s the imprimatur — the stamp of approval.

But D’Souza wasn’t embraced by the evangelical tribe just because he affirms the creeds and C.S. Lewis. What made CT and King’s College and the rest of mainstream evangelicalism decide that D’Souza was one of us was his political history — a former policy aide in the Reagan White House, D’Souza is fiercely opposed to abortion, gay rights, feminism and progressive taxation.

As Sarah Posner said, “D’Souza’s … rise in the evangelical world is due in no small part to his conspiracy-minded claims about President Obama’s ‘Kenyan, anti-colonial behavior.’”

Yes, conspiratorial warnings about Africans and anti-colonialism contributed to D’Souza’s legitimacy among evangelicals.

Bruce Garrett notes some of D’Souza’s odious political history:

How the man who, while editor of the Dartmouth Review, penned a racist parody of African American students titled “This Sho Ain’t No Jive Bro” and later outed a gay student using stolen mail between members of the Dartmouth Gay Student Alliance can in any sense be labeled a Christian is something confederate Christianists can explain I suppose.

Those two themes — racism and anti-gay sentiment — have endured as the hallmarks of much of D’Souza’s “scholarship.”

Alvin McEwen highlights a 2008 article of D’Souza’s titled, “Gay Rights vs. Democracy,” in which he pulls the man-on-dog nonsense.

Here is D’Souza’s idea of scholarship: “Why doesn’t the Fourteenth Amendment protect the fellow who wants to walk down the aisle with his poodle on the grounds that ‘I love my dog and my dog loves me’?” (What is it about the idea of consent that confuses these folks so much?)

Grace at Are Women Human? echoes Garrett’s observation, noting — savoring — the irony that D’Souza’s adultery has done what his nasty racism and homophobia never did, diminished his standing amongst evangelicals. The entire post — a Snoopy-dance of schadenfreude — is great fun, but the kernel of it is summed up in this one tweet from Grace:

Does it matter than D’souza peddles racist, colonialist lies? Nope. But he shared a hotel room with a woman he’s not married to! OH NOES

Or, as she writes in the post itself:

Sarah Posner writes for Religion Dispatches that this (presumed) sex scandal may spell the end for D’Souza’s once rising star. Note, not the fact that he’s been peddling racist and colonialist lies to white Christians for fun and profit for the past forever, but because of what’s assumed about his marriage and sex life. PRIORITIES.

- – - – - – - – - – - -

* Brian Tashman at Right Wing Watch quotes from a post by Odie Joseph II at Smart Girl Politics, which bears the unfortunate title of “Whatever Happened to Good Ole Hypocrisy?

Feminists and liberals … tore the traditional family to shreds until they reduced us to the shining bastion of zoological (but even animals aren’t this bad and do not depend on the state to care for them) cesspool equality that we have now in every American ghetto and which is seeping out into the middle and upper classes in less animated ways.

Her bogeymen are just like those of her boyfriend: Black.

As women spearhead the demise of the ideal, the alternative to hypocrisy, they spearhead the demise of social order as we know it and love it. Henceforth, all of us will be staring down the barrel of life in a hip hop video or government-funded project. …

Buzzfeed snagged a cached copy of Odie Joseph’s blog (which disappeared when the story broke), which reveals her to have been a fan of D’Souza’s books — and of Ayn Rand.

  • Ginny Bain Allen

    Oh my!  In my haste, I misspelled a word.  Is Tim gonna ban me from attending another of his nights of laughter?  You are a nasty woman, Ellie.  Take note, I did NOT refer to you as a lady.  

  • P J Evans

     Please go do good works in the city where you live. The people who need help are more likely to appreciate it if you don’t deliver one of your ‘holier than thou’ sermons, though.

  • Consumer Unit 5012

     So, you follow ALL of Jesus’s preaching, huh?

    I ask again, can I have your coat?

  • Ginny Bain Allen

    Thanks for the encouragement, P J!  I certainly do!   :)   I am holier than no one.  I’m a filthy rag compared to Jesus, and love others in His Name.  Do you?

  • Consumer Unit 5012

    You’re practically a walking caricature of all the thin-lipped humorless
    prudery I’ve had the misfortune to come across in my lifetime.

    What do you mean ‘practically’?

    (Mind you, I strongly suspect that Ginny here is a troll.  This is because I try to think the best of people, and ‘her’ being a troll would be less sad than her being sincere.)

  • Ginny Bain Allen

    I am a sinner saved by Jesus.  We are instructed in 1 Peter 1:15 to “be holy in all you do.”  I certainly strive to be holy in all I do, but fall short many times.  The bar has been set high for us, because God knows of what we are capable when we surrender our allegiance to Him!   :)

  • Consumer Unit 5012

     So, you’re voting for the Mormon over the Congregationalist, because someone’s convinced you that the Republican Party owns the trademark on Jesus(tm).  Got it.

    What denomination are you?  Some of them are supposed to be IN FAVOR of chaos and ruination.  Like LaJenkins – Jeezus can’t come back until the Antichrist is in power, after all…

  • Consumer Unit 5012

     So, no your coat, then?

    I’m sure Jesus will be REALLY IMPRESSED by your internet trolling in His Glorious Name.    That’s in Reagan’s Epistle to the Supply-Siders, right?

  • Consumer Unit 5012

     Ah, I was wrong.  That’s in The Book of Interrogations, 5:23.

  • AnonymousSam

    And yet here you are, planning to vote for one of the greediest men in American history, a man with more money than any ten families would ever need in their lifetimes who nevertheless wants to pass taxation laws which will make him even richer still. What possible altruistic reason could a man have for needing a tax rate of less than one percent? Jesus spoke very clearly about rich men. There’s a reason we summarize his position as “I got mine, screw you.

    His plans also include all but eliminating aid for the poor and the sick. Two more things Jesus spoke very clearly about. Why? So that we can regain our position as the richest nation in the world? Ah, yes, because the virtues of unrestrained greed trump charity every day of the week.

    Meanwhile, you bear false witness against the president (the Bible also spoke clearly about lying and obeying your leaders…) and speak ill about his budget, which dedicates money toward helping the least of us. Yes, you are indeed a wonderful Christian. You’ve learned the most important lesson, that it matters less what you do and more what magic words you speak.

    By my blade, you are indeed a woman of clay.

  • Ginny Bain Allen

    Either a person with such wit must have certainly written a book to help others attain the state of perfection you have, Ellie,

    or…

    you hold others to a standard that you cannot attain yourself.  Hmmm, what would that make you?

  • Consumer Unit 5012

     

    Jesus spoke very clearly about rich men. There’s a reason we summarize his position as “I got mine, screw you.”

    Um, you mean Romney’s position, not Jesus’s, right?

    (Supply-Side Jesus, maybe…)

  • Ginny Bain Allen

    I am a Christian.  What about you?

  • Ginny Bain Allen
  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    I’m sorry, is there a reason you’re nitpicking me today?

  • Consumer Unit 5012

    I am a Christian.  What about you?

    Nope.   I have a profound dislike for organized religion, and you’re reminding me why.  Part of the reason I read Fred’s stuff is for the useful reminder that not all Christians are self-righteous bigots, mean control-freaks, ignorant anti-science fanatics, hypocritical greedheads, or doomsday cultists, which can be hard to remember sometimes when I read the news.

     I’m a paid up member of the Church of the SubGenius.  I believe that J. R. “Bob” Dobbs died for my Slack and rose from the dead, only to get killed AGAIN AND AGAIN until Satan finally kicked him out of Hell for good for making him look bad.  I paid my 30$, I’ve got a guarantee of ETERNAL SALVATION OR TRIPLE MY MONEY BACK, and I’ve got y prepaid ticket for when the Angelic Host from Planet X arrives on July 5th, 1998 to Rupture up all the Saved and spray the planet for its human infestation.  (1998 has NOT ARRIVED YET, so SHUT UP.  The Conspiracy has tampered with the calendars.)

    I’m also a card-carrying Pope of the Discordian Society.  I believe that God is a Crazy Woman, and I can point to all the chaos in the universe to prove it (SOMEONE had to put  all that disorder here!).  I have consulted both my Pineal Gland AND my appendix, and concluded that any deity that doesn’t have a sense of humor can’t possibly care about humanity, as they’d never have created us in the first place.

    And since I can, I hereby appoint everyone reading this a Pope (or, if female, Mome) of the Discordian Society.  (Yes, this includes you, Ginny, whether you want to be or not.  Unlike Mormons, we don’t wait until people are dead before adding them to the rolls.) Now start excommunicating each other!  You can pick up your Pope Card here.

    I’m also a member of the Universal Life Church, but that’s just for laughs.

    Do You Believe That?

  • AnonymousSam

    Yes, disconnected interjection there.

  • P J Evans

     Probably not. She seems to enjoy feeling superior to the rest of us. She’ll make a nice carpet in hell.

  • EllieMurasaki

    Conveniently for you, today I am not a lady. Today is a ‘none of the above’ day. Are you gonna explain how sinful I am for not accepting the gender roles that come with my vagina, or are you gonna follow in Jesus’s loving footsteps? Sadly you cannot do both at once. Neither is a valid option, but both is not.

  • P J Evans

     We’d be more likely to believe you if you, y’know, actually followed the teachings of Jesus, instead of being the guy standing out on the corner talking about how wonderful a guy he himself is.

  • AnonymousSam

    It isn’t necessary to be a troll to have positions commonly held by Bible Belt-dwelling Christians for the better part of some centuries. Ginny is a 56 year old mother of four, born in Virginia and living in North Carolina. I’ve known plenty of people with similar dispositions who came out of similar backgrounds.

  • Consumer Unit 5012

     Oh, hey, it’s Banana Guy! 

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0geHA2yHSZI

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2009/04/07/ray-comfort-gives-apology-for-the-banana-video/

    [sarcasm]
    I know when I want politicotheological advice, I ALWAYS try to find the most intellectually dishonest person possible to consult!
    [/sarcasm]

  • EllieMurasaki

    Either a person with such wit must have certainly written a book to help others attain the state of perfection you have, Ellie,

    or…

    you hold others to a standard that you cannot attain yourself. Hmmm, what would that make you?

    …what has that to do with the comment you’re replying to, in which I, having no knowledge nor desire for knowledge of Hawkins’s gender, pointedly do not misgender Hawkins?

  • EllieMurasaki

    1998 has NOT ARRIVED YET, so SHUT UP. The Conspiracy has tampered with the calendars.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LV7M_WeGX8 –funnier if you’ve actually seen Community

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    Hail Eris, Hail Discordia.

    Oh, and 1998 is just a number. ;) Calendar reform hasn’t happened, so since 1998 A.D. really means 1998 as numbered by the dominant culture on this planet and not truly by all of humanity, you’re safe there. :D

  • EllieMurasaki

    Where is my brain today?

    In a jurisdiction where abortion is legally murder, what should be the penalty for a woman who gets an abortion?

  • Ginny Bain Allen

    I understand that you don’t like organized religion.  By your incoherent babbling, it’s quite clear you enjoy your own disorganized religion.  Perhaps you need to go take your medication, 5012.  I’m outta here, I’m goneee.  Football awaits!   :)    

    By the way, I love science for it is the study of God’s creation!   :)   Good day.

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    By the way, I love science for it is the study of God’s creation!   :)   Good day.

    Even the part about….

    Evolution?

  • EllieMurasaki

    I love science for it is the study of God’s creation!

    Yet you’re ignoring the studies that show that gay sex is no more or less harmful than straight sex, same-sex couples are no more or less good at commitment than mixed-sex couples, same-sex couples are actually a little better at raising kids than mixed-sex couples, abortion saves lives, and having free and widely available contraception and comprehensive sex ed reduces abortions.

    Speaking of which, in a jurisdiction where abortion is legally murder, what should be the penalty for a woman who gets and abortion?

  • Tricksterson

    Nonono, she’s voting for the Mormon (and the Catholic) over the Muslim!  Or atheist, whatever, same thing.

  • Tricksterson

    A Born Again Christian?

  • Tricksterson

    Yes and no.  Or maybe maybe.

  • Lunch Meat

    (Of course it’s necessary for to be reading the Bible for yourself so you will know when you are being bamboozled by a wolf in sheep’s clothing – a heretic.)

    Thanks. I majored in Bible, I know Greek, and I read every day.

    The postmodern church attempts to bring love to the world without at the same time bringing the Truth which is Jesus.  That is no Gospel.  That is no Saviour.  The postmodern church plays cafeteria Christianity, abiding by those Scriptures they “like,” while discarding those they find unsavory.

    You are either misinformed or lying. You have heard things about “the postmodern church.” I am a member of one. I wish you would not talk about things you only know secondhand, are not willing to experience for yourself, and can only make judgmental assumptions about. Does your church preach about stories like the rape of the Levite’s concubine in Judges 19, or Jephthah’s sacrifice of his daughter? Or do they ignore them? We read those stories and struggle with them. They were never brought up in the conservative church I grew up. Yeah, in theory we “believed” in them, but if you act like they don’t exist, what’s the difference between that and discarding them?

  • Lunch Meat

    Oh, and by the way…

    LM, in your “church” are you taught that Jesus is THE only way to get to heaven?  Are you taught the reality of hell?  If not, you are not hearing the Gospel of the Good News.

    You and your church have turned profound mysteries about Jesus’ saving work on the cross, and the ultimate reality that exists beyond death, into a litmus test for defining who is and who is not part of your tribe, who is and who is not worthy of love and respect and understanding. I will not answer your question. I find it extremely insulting, reductive and irrelevant. I will not allow you to place me in a box.

  • P J Evans

     I’m a Herbangelist, when I have to provide a religion for the records.
    Praise Herbie and pass the buck! (I was boptized by Pope Elst himself.)

  • Lunch Meat

    Take note, I did NOT refer to you as a lady.

    I don’t know why you keep acting as if accusing us of not adhering to your arbitrary gender roles is the worst insult ever. By my count, that’s the third time you’ve said it. Guess what? We don’t care.

  • Carstonio

    Anyone who really cared about saving people from eternal suffering wouldn’t take the tone of “you’re gonna be in so much trouble.” No, that’s someone who believes that the suffering is deserved, someone who expects to have the last mocking laugh like a Left Behind fan cheering for the four horsemen. The ultimate tribalism. 

  • Lori

    LM, in your “church” are you taught that Jesus is THE only way to get to
    heaven?  Are you taught the reality of hell?  If not, you are not
    hearing the Gospel of the Good News.   

    Because nothing says “Good News” like threats of infinite punishment for finite wrong-doing.

  • RidgewayGirl

    At least you’re up front about being a bigot. There is that. You’re not trying to pretend to be kind and loving at all. 

    I hope very much that you’re just this way when you can be anonymous on the internet and that you are able to be polite in real life. 

  • http://profiles.google.com/fader2011 Alex Harman

    It is wrong to tar all the members of a community—in this case, the Goan—with the same brush, but I will admit to thinking that D’Souza bears that name because his ancestors changed their faith after the manner of their conquerors and wondered if they maintained the conviction that identified the Powerful with the Righteous…but this is rank speculation, and so I should also point out here that they might well have been low-caste persons whose conversion to a[n at-least-theoretically] more egalitarian faith were an estimable move.

    The latter possibility is a real one — I knew a Goan woman some years ago whose name was also D’Souza, and whose family came from one of the low-level, laborer castes, just a little above the “untouchables.”  She came to the U.S. as a maid and nanny for a Brahmin couple, who treated her fairly badly — in addition to taking care of their children and house, they had her running the taco stand they owned in the local mall’s food court, and underpaid her for the work.

    Dinesh, D’Souza’s family, however, came from the Brahmin caste, according to Dinesh himself on page 83 of his book “What’s So Great About America” (probably his least offensive work — some of the points he makes in it about subjects orthogonal to race and partisanship are actually valid).  Despite the family’s conversion to Catholicism, Dinesh’s ancestors up to and including his grandfather still considered themselves greatly blessed to belong to the most exalted of castes.

  • Cat

    My partner and I agree–”Snoopy-dance of schadenfreude” is deliciousness itself.

  • Jim Roberts

    After a few scary weeks of sermons at my church, we’re talking about the many times “one another” comes up in the Bible. In the first sermon, the pastor took some care to say that any time we see that phrase we should always assumes that, unless it’s specifically and carefully limited, the phrase refers to all of humanity and not just to those we see every Sunday. Phew! I think I’ll enjoy this sermon series.

  • Latitude

    Who? Ronald Reagan?

    Or are you still on about the Mao ornament (which was donated by an American citizen, not bought or commissioned by the Obamas)?

    And since you keep bringing up “sin” and such:
    Your religion has no place in US government. That is, according to the founders of the country. Get over yourself, stop trying to spread tabloid-style stories, and grow up.

  • EllieMurasaki

    No no no, she left, she has been gone for a week, do not tempt her to return.

  • EllieMurasaki

    No no no, she left, she has been gone for a week, do not tempt her to return.

  • EllieMurasaki

    No no no, she left, she has been gone for a week, do not tempt her to return.

  • Latitude

    Jill Stanek? As in, the PROVEN LIAR Jill Stanek? The woman who also condones the murder of doctors who work in clinics that provide abortions? The woman who praised the murder of Dr. George Tiller? THAT psychopath?

    Congratulations, you’ve lost all credibility. Might as well go back to Conservapedia (where facts are poison & reason is an evil liberal plot).

  • Ginny Bain Allen

    Baby Parts for SaleA batch of eyes by UPS – 30 livers by FedExBy J. C. Willke, MD
    After fighting abortion for 30 years I thought I had seen and heard it all, but not so. Here is a new development, a coordinated high-tech industry functioning for the specific purpose of obtaining and selling high-quality fetal organs for research.
    Partial-Birth abortions seemed to be so horrible that most of us wondered how such procedures could be defended. Many of us chalked it up to the fact that the pro-abortion advocates and the abortion industry didn’t want to give one inch for fear that their whole house of cards will fold. I, among others, felt that their resistance to forbidding this gruesome procedure was a fear of a domino effect. If we stopped this one, then we’d stop the next and the next and the next and they didn’t want it to start. But now we have evidence of a very clear additional reason why they want these late-term abortions to continue. The reason is that this is the one method that gives them intact fetal bodies from which they can obtain organs for research.
    The other method of late-term abortion, D&E (Dilatation and Evacuation), involves reaching up into the uterus and dismembering the live baby. This delivers pieces of macerated organs that are usually unsuitable for fetal research, transplantation etc. This may be the main reason for their vehement defense of the practice of Partial-Birth abortion.
    The story was broken recently by Life Dynamics under the guidance of its director, Mark Crutcher. A lady came to him with a story, which he has verified. The name of the informant cannot be revealed, as she is still involved in the work that she has exposed. Her story is dramatically recorded in a video just released by Life Dynamics. In it, this woman under the pseudonym, Kelly, tells her story. Her back is to the camera and her voice is electronically altered to prevent her identification. She worked for “an outside source, hired with a team to go in [to late term abortion clinics] to dissect and procure fetal tissue for high-quality sales.” Read on as Kelly describes her macabre profession. “What we did was to have a contract with an abortion clinic that would allow us to go there on certain days. We would get a generated list each day to tell us what tissue researchers, pharmaceutical companies and universities were looking for. Then we would examine the patient charts. We would screen out the ones we didn’t want.
    We did not use specimens that had STDs [sexually transmitted diseases] or fetal abnormalities. We only wanted the most perfect specimens that we could give to the researchers.” And the age of these babies? The victims were up to and over 30-weeks gestation. “We were looking for eyes, livers, brains, thymuses [lymphoid tissue], cardiac blood, cord blood, blood from the liver, even blood from the limbs.”
    Only an estimated 2% of the late-term aborted babies had abnormalities. “The rest were very healthy. 95% of the time, she was just there to get rid of the baby.” How many of the late-term – the ones around 30 weeks – would you see? “Probably 30 or 40 babies a week.”
    Kelly stated, “We would sell the tissue to private contractors. They in turn would sell to other universities and researchers. There was a high demand every week to buy such fetal tissues. It was shipped by UPS, FedEx, Airborne and sometimes by special couriers. Sometimes we would take the specimen in a box to the airport and put it on as regular cargo, to be picked up at the destination.” And did these shipping companies know they were transporting baby parts? “No. All they knew was that it was just human cells. But it could be a completely intact fetus. It might be a batch of eyes, or 30 or 40 livers going out that day, or thymuses
    And the leftover parts? “We would usually put this down the garbage disposal along with the placenta and the leftover blood material. If it was too large to go down the drain, they had a special freezer and when they accumulated 60 or 70 fetuses in one box, it would be picked up for incineration.”
    And then the obvious question. Kelly is still working for this company, so why did she come and tell this story to a pro-life group? One day when she was working, “A set of twins at 24 weeks gestation was brought to us in a pan. They were both alive. The doctor came back and said, `Got you some good specimens, twins.’ I looked at him and said, `There’s something wrong here. They are moving. I don’t do this. This is not in my contract.’ I told him I would not be part of taking their lives. So he took a bottle of sterile water and poured it in the pan until the fluid came up over their mouths and noses, letting them drown. I left the room because I could not watch this.” But she did go back and dissect them after they were dead. She said, “That’s when I decided it was wrong. I did not want to be there when that happened.” And then it happened again and again. “At 16 weeks, all the way up to sometimes even 30 weeks, and we had live births come back to us.” And then? “Then the doctor would either break the neck or take a pair of tongs and beat the fetus until it was dead.”
    Did the abortionist ever alter the procedures to get you the type of specimens you needed that day? Her answer was “Yes, before the procedures they would want to see the list of what we wanted to procure. The [abortionist] would get us the most complete, intact specimens that he could. They would be delivered to us completely intact. Sometimes the fetus appeared to be dead, but when we opened up the chest cavity, the heart was still beating.” She was asked if the type of abortion procedure was intentionally altered to deliver to you an intact specimen, even if that meant giving you a live baby? Her answer was, “Yes, that was so we could sell better tissue, so that our company would make more money. At the end of the year, they would give the clinic back more money because we got good specimens.”
    The Partial-Birth abortion procedure involves inserting seaweed laminaria into the cervix. This swells up, dilating the cervix. In 24 hours, new laminaria are inserted. This produces more swelling and dilatation so that by the third day the baby can be extracted. During the dilatation procedure she is sent to a nearby motel. Sometimes the laminaria would fall out and she would go into labor and deliver the baby. And then? “They would call the nurse, and the nurse would call the doctor who would go to the motel room and pick up the woman and the fetus. That’s when they would call us and say, `Okay, we’ve got a couple of specimens here,’ or `We’ve got one specimen.’ We would go [to the clinic] and the specimen [the baby] would be in a bucket, sometimes alive. When we opened the chest cavity the heart would still be beating. Sometimes we could see movement in the bucket. These babies had to come out alive. There’s no way for them to be coming out dead. They were all alive. How they killed them is anyone’s guess. My guess is that they had to kill them in
    the bucket or put them in a corner and let them die slowly.” And that was because the abortionist had seen how strongly you reacted to seeing them killed in front of you? “That’s correct. And he did not want to repeat those instances but they kept happening anyway, and that’s how I came to call you guys [Life Dynamics].”
    Finally, Kelly related how sometimes a woman, halfway through the dilatation procedure, would change her mind and say she did not want the abortion. In such a case they would tell her that it’s too late now. “You’re going to have the abortion.” Kelly said, “All of the staff would gather around pressuring her to have the abortion. On the second day, they’re given an IV sedation, which kind of puts them into what I call a Nyquil nap. They’re just basically drowsy, not thinking for themselves and that’s basically how they are coerced into continuing the procedure.”
    Finally, in the interview, she notes that many of the employees of the clinics were lesbians. When the mother was unconscious these women would discuss her genitalia with degrading remarks and on occasion even take the phone number off of her chart. Then they would “call her weeks down the road and ask her out for a date. It was not uncommon for women or men at the clinic to hit on these women for dates.”
    Now We Know Why
    Now we know one of the major reasons why the abortion industry is fighting so intensely to prevent a ban on Partial-Birth abortion from being enacted. It’s more than not giving any ground on abortion for any reason. It’s also because selling fetal parts is a very lucrative part of the abortion business. These mothers pay large sums of money for late-term abortions and the abortionists in turn are given big money for these intact organs. The model specimens have to be: the bigger – the better; the older – the better; the more alive – the better.
    The above dialogue is from a video that has been produced by Life Dynamics. If any of our readers would like a free copy of this interview, while quantities last, feel free to contact us and we will send you a copy. Send your request to: Life Issues Institute, 1721 W. Galbraith Rd, Cincinnati, OH 45239. Phone (513) 729-3600. Fax (513) 729-3636. E-mail lifeissues@aol.com

  • http://dpolicar.livejournal.com/ Dave

    Shame on you.

  • EllieMurasaki

    I’m pretty sure Dr. Tiller didn’t, and the only remaining late-term abortion provider in the United States doesn’t, do thirty abortions a week. There simply are not that many women who need a late-term abortion and who are capable of traveling to the doctor who’ll do the procedure.

    Hey, since you’re back. In a jurisdiction where abortion is legally murder, what should be the penalty for a woman who gets one?

    Also, I thought you’d left. Why didn’t you stay gone?


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