Your lips say ‘school prayer,’ but your eyes tell me ‘desegregation’

Part of the problem with arguments about “prayer in schools” is that quite often they don’t seem to really be about prayer in schools.

The anger and resentment over the loss of cultural hegemony the 1962 school prayer decision has come to symbolize seems to trace back earlier than 1962. About eight years earlier, I’d guess.

Which is just to say, more or less, that I suspect something like this:

 

  • Anon

     That’s not true, Andover, Episcopal Academy, St.Paul’s, and other schools are Episcopalian.  Those are the schools that really count, not your Catholic School down the street.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jonathan-Kuperberg/698603245 Jonathan Kuperberg

    This is the last time I go on this blog. Race-baiters of any stripe are dumb and dead wrong. That includes Reagan with his states’ rights speech in 1980, Lou Dobbs’ anti-immigrant speeches, the dominionists and reconstructionists speaking of “Euro-Christian civilisation” AND you folks on the left who think you have the right to throw the race card around like a blackjack dealer. (Whoops? Did I say “black”? Pinochle, then.) First you bring it into the marriage debate. Then you say the evil prophesied in Left Behind is offensive to Hitler’s victims. Now you think that Christian traditionalism is a front for racism? Ha ha ha, funny. Christian states with Christian prayer by officials  existed for centuries before the beginning of colonialism and the transatlantic slave trade, which is usually considered the advent of racism in its current Western form of hegemonic white supremacy and the justification thereof.

    If you knew the first thing about intersectionality you would be targeting the white, well-off, elite school principals who find it acceptable to invite Planned Parenthood in for sex ed in poor, minority-dominated  districts and the unprofessional ones over here who let students from Asian families discuss their sexual experiences with them in explicit detail and refuse the parents any right to know what their sons or daughters are up to on trumped-up, anti-family  “confidentiality” and “pastoral care” rationales.  Who are the reason I first got into the P-L/P-F movement, as explained in my post on the Inouye thread. You would stand up to the advocates of that corrupt bullshit from your position as progressives and thus in their favour, the National Education Association, SIECUS, etc. and tell them to stop in the name of racial justice, to stop trying to contaminate minority families with their white sexual decadence, and stop RIGHT NOW.

    But that would involve standing up for parental rights, family values, and implicitly supporting traditional moral values. So you don’t oppose this anti-family elite and their  indirectly discriminatory nonsense yet when I spoke of that to a racially mixed group at the Pro-life Student Alliance two weeks ago in London, I was applauded (there are photos of me with five of them carrying a red and blue PRO-LIFE PRO-FAMILY sign, the one Robertson’s Christian Coalition first had made for the ’92 RNC.)

  • EllieMurasaki

    I thought you were taking your bigotry somewhere the fuck else.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jonathan-Kuperberg/698603245 Jonathan Kuperberg

    Well as I oppose preferential treatment for secular humanism, my children will be privately or home schooled should I end up in the US- which means as much sectarian prayer as the teacher/my future wife likes, and no chance of my children’s moral development being snookered by Constitution-quoting “freethinkers” and ACLU’ers. More likely, they’ll go to a tax-funded, pro-family Catholic school in Ireland or Eastern Europe, where I can see myself moving to once I finish university.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jonathan-Kuperberg/698603245 Jonathan Kuperberg

    And I was born in 1993 and am proudly Religious Right, a rejector of the wicked sexual revolution and its Stonewallist faction, the lies of secular humanism, and someone who is completely opposed to the idea of morality changing with the “times”. So I’m as far from a product of my times as one could get.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jonathan-Kuperberg/698603245 Jonathan Kuperberg

    Pat Buchanan is a paleocon Catholic; for all he says about Jews, his morals are much closer to Orthodox Jewish communities than the values the ADL espouse. I loved the culture-war speech though, being on his side in that culture war, it made me upset to discover how bigoted he was on some other things. WND is Wingnutdaily, I’ll give you that one.

  • P J Evans

    DNFTT. He’s been very annoying on another thread. (When the fuck is he going to go away?)

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jonathan-Kuperberg/698603245 Jonathan Kuperberg

    One tee I’ve seen: (first word black, “is” red and final word white on a blue background in each case) Jesus is Savior, Abortion is Murder, Environmentalism is Idolatry, Homosexuality is Abomination, Evolution is Deception… Some Things are just Black and White.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jonathan-Kuperberg/698603245 Jonathan Kuperberg

    I have heard the Weyrich video. That doesn’t mean that pro-life or opposing two men having sex has anything to do with male headship- that is nothing but conspiracy theorist garbling.

  • EllieMurasaki

    MLK would have a few words to say about that. MLK DID have a few words to say about that. Something about how appalling it is that ‘black’ is synonymous with ‘bad and nasty’ and ‘white’ with ‘good and pure’.

    I thought you were taking your bigotry somewhere the fuck else. Different Slacktivist thread != somewhere else.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jonathan-Kuperberg/698603245 Jonathan Kuperberg

    All this may be valid for the Christian private schools until the early to mid 1970s. Then came Planned Parenthood under Faye Whattleton plus Gloria Steinem, Paul Ehrlich, communist-sympathiser professors (they were open about it, so this is no rightwing conspiracy theory), and the likes of Friere [Pedagogy of the Oppressed], the psychologists with their anti-traditional-morality Values Clarification, the perversion of education known as “OBE”, and all of these people wanted to get to the next generation through the public schools. There were more and more teachers who thought that intimate involvement with students’ personal lives and other professionals was appropriate, and that parents should have no right to opt out of this extension of a school’s function, backed up by social workers with “child-protection” rhetoric; explicit sex education began to rear its ugly head… with all that, is it ANY surprise that the HSLDA (Farris), CEE (Simonds), Pro-Family Forum (Connie Marshner), Profamily United (Onalee McGraw), etc. took action to remove children from those corrupted public schools full of far-left ideologues and anti-family professionals?

    But it’s easier to demonise the parents who objected to that whole set of anti-family developments as “racist”. Many were poor/working-class people from the South and rural Midwest who could barely afford it, or who ended up home-schooling their large families and the children got little by way of education. Do you feel good bullying such desperate people, liberals?

  • The_L1985

    That’s even more cringe-worthy than the one  that was popular at my school that said “Evolution: Man Making A Monkey Of Himself.”

  • Carstonio

    No one is alleging it’s a conspiracy. Instead, it’s a mindset and an ideology about unequal gender roles. Vast swaths of the pro-life moment treat the real problem with abortion as women not wanting to be mothers, implying that it’s their appointed duty. Similarly, most but not all homophobic arguments boil down to husband and wife being sex-specific roles and not simply sex-specific titles, wrongly viewing gay men as acting like women. This mindset defines gender roles as men holding the authority in families and societies. Obviously some pro-lifers and homosexuality opponents don’t subscribe to that ideology.

  • Carstonio

    Morality is about what helps or harms other people. Or as one Slacktivite put it, pursuing one’s own happiness in ways that don’t interfere with others’ pursuit of their own happiness. That principle doesn’t change. What does change are social norms, which can be either just or unjust.

    At one time the vote in the US was limited to white men who owned land, which contradicted the nation’s founding principle of everyone being equal. The civil rights and women’s rights movements were about having the nation live up to that principle. That’s the distinction between moral principles and social norms.

    There’s nothing inherently immoral about homosexuality, so it was wrong for societies to deem  it unacceptable. An individual’s sexual orientation should not be the concern of others or of society. It would have been just as unjust if societies had deemed heterosexuality to be unacceptable.

    And if you declare allegiance to the Religious Right, it’s reasonable to conclude that you support the group’s unconstitutional objective of enacting laws based on nothing more than sectarian doctrine. Theocracy is wrong no matter what religion is used as the source of the doctrines. The Religious Right might have a good idea for a law, but if it refuses to translate its sectarian stances into secular terms, then it essentially opposes democracy.

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2008/01/15/king-and-huck/

  • EllieMurasaki

    They prosecuted some poor sucker in these United States
    For teaching that man descended from the apes
    They coulda settled that case without a fuss or fight
    If they’d seen me chasin’ you, sugar, through the jungle last night They’da called in that jury and a one two three said
    Part man, part monkey, definitely

    Springsteen’s buying in to a damaging binary, but it’s funny.

  • Lloyd Apploff

    U r an idiot. And, you are obsessed with men having sex. U are one scary closet case. The lady doth protest too much. Schmuck. Nothing but a narrow minded schmuck just dying for some hot man action.

  • Lloyd Apploff

    U r trying to have a rational discussion with a whack job fanatic. We could be having a discussion about agriculture and Kuperberg will bring up male homosexuality. I have followed him on other blogs and he definitely gas a screw loose.

  • Lloyd Apploff

    I am a Democrat and a liberal. I do not believe that there should be prayer in public schools. That being said, I have heard many arguments for prayer to be re-instated in public schools and I disagree with all of them, but not one of them have ever had even a hint of racism or segregation. Religious people want prayer in school. I believe in a separation between church and state. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar……


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