‘Be bold. Be courageous.’

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This is the horror of the whole country.”

The Scriptures call us to love our neighbors more than we love our guns.”

“The Big Lie about guns is this: that they will keep you safe. But facts are facts, and actually, the opposite is true. Owning a gun will make you less safe.”

“One of the major reasons that gun-policy disputes are often so contentious and interminable is that there’s remarkably little hard evidence to go on. And that ignorance is partly by design.”

“No. 14: Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.”

“It’™s a sad commentary on the drift of the gun control debate over the years that this modest package has ‘overjoyed’ advocates of stronger gun regulation, and is already being described by some conservative gabbers as as representing the end of American freedom and the destruction of the US Constitution.”

“Neil Heslin, whose six-year-old son was murdered at Sandy Hook Elementary School last month, was heckled by gun advocates during a legislative hearing on Monday.”

“Still, when Wayne LaPierre says ‘It’s about banning your guns … PERIOD!’ he is obviously Saying The Thing That Is Not. As with the Romney campaign, reporters will have to decide whether to report the falsity of the charge in the same sentence in which they report the charge.”

How the deuce am I not on the NRA enemies list?

“Few Australians would deny that their country is safer today as a consequence of gun control.”

Gun control laws, Allen Keyes says, are “intended to make sure that people will be slaughtered by the thousands and the hundreds of thousands.”

“My brother was backing out fast because he was scared and he rolled down the window to say he was sorry and he was not doing anything wrong. Then the guy shot him in his head.”

“The number of people who died by shooting themselves was almost four times greater in the high-gun states.”

“In no other part of criminal law or public health do we dismiss effective policies because they’•re not 100-percent effective.”

Can you imagine if there was a place called Islamic Solider Firearms?

The gods fail not to mark / Those who have killed many.”

 

  • AnonaMiss

    As someone who watches Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed on roughly a bimonthly basis*, I would love to see the Creation Institute & co.’s response to the news that statistical research on the effects of gun ownership has been banned.

    * About as often as I watch The Room, and for the same reasons. 

  • SergeantHeretic

    To this day, it absolutly blows my mind that their is so much resistence in this country to admitting that the prevalence of gun-violence and gun deaths i nthe United States, might just be tied, not just to the prevelence and ubiquity of guns, but also t othe prevelence and ubiquity of the fetishized idolotry of gun culture.

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    Indeed. (PS: Hihi! i love your TL on ah.com)

    As a Canadian I always an astonished at the degree of unhealthy attachment some Americans have to the idea of guns as a kind of symbol as opposed to a concrete thing.

    And unfortunately, it seeps north, too. Canadian gun owners have, in fact, actively aided in trying to sabotage the gun registry since it was established almost 20 years ago. One tactic they liked to do was to purposely snarl up the system by repeatedly asking for the same forms to be mailed out, which drives up costs and wastes paper.

    Another was to pressure provincial governments to opt out of information sharing programs which would have increased the effectiveness of the gun registry.

  • Carstonio

    Am I guilty of every-problem-looks-like-a-nail thinking when I suspect that this whole issue is a proxy for racial paranoia? Not just the NRA and ALEC using the time-tested Southern Strategy euphemisms, but just the idea of guns for personal protection. On its face, LaPierre’s rhetoric resembles fallen-world theology clumsily translated into secular terms, where one has to be prepared to kill to survive. The scenario collapses without the myths about blacks’ alleged propensity for crime. Someone unfamiliar with the history of US racism might assume that he was living in a Ralphie Parker heroic fantasy.

    I was surprised to see the Temptations on the NRA enemies list, mostly because four of the classic five members are dead. Unless they’re talking about Otis Williams and later member Dennis Edwards specifically.

  • SergeantHeretic

    Invisible Neutrino, THANKS! I does me best, and yes there is alot to what you say.

    Carstonion. Well speaking of hammers and nails you hit this one o nthe head. I find absolute bucketloads of WASP panic and racial paranoia tied up in the Pro guns debate. or am I REALLY the only pair of boobs around here to have noticed the frightful upturn of far right gun idolotry since the election of an African American President?

  • Carstonio

    Yes, although I would say the issue with Obama is that he’s both African-American and educated. His quote about clinging was obviously referring to some of the religious folks and gun owners, just as “you didn’t build that” was obviously about the public infrastructure that promotes entrepreneurial success. He did almost nothing about guns during his first term, yet the bumper stickers about “keeping my guns, money and freedom” proliferated.

  • http://vovinyl.blogspot.com/ FangsFirst

    It’s been noted a few times that “heckling” is an unfair description of the callous, thoughtless, stupid comments slung at Heslin. Though usually not in contexts where their callous, thoughtless, insensitive nature was also referenced.

  • SergeantHeretic

    Yes, but in my opinion and OLNY my opinion this REEKS of white racist capitalists screaming “Don’t let the nigger come for my precious THINGS!ZOMGZ

  • AnonymousSam

    Well, people like Ted Nugent certainly aren’t convincing me otherwise.

    http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/02/08/nugent-says-obama-has-a-racist-agenda-after-wee/192587

  • Jim Roberts

    If  Ted Nugent ever convinces you of anything, immediately discard that opinion. By force, if necessary.

  • http://vovinyl.blogspot.com/ FangsFirst

    can we maybe lock back his (disseminated) output to a handful of early records? And then I can go back to enjoying them without the sense of repulsion stemming from their originator?

    Not, you know, shut him up in any real fashion, just stop recording, promoting or spreading anything he does or says–voluntarily!

  • Jessica_R

    I’ve got an Aussie friend and she is very understandably baffled by America’s refusal too look at what Oz’s gun laws after that massacre did to the gun violence rate. And I’m pretty sure Australia has violent video games and movies too. 

  • Carstonio

    I would amend SergeantHeretic’s point about “precious things” to include protecting wives from rape, because that’s part of the mythology and hero mentality involved.

    Which early records? Cat Scratch Fever and Wango Tango seemed monotonous and derivative to me. I never liked Kiss for the same reason. One record reviewer three decades ago wrote that for Nugent, restraint is a foreign concept. That’s a good description of his political rhetoric.

  • caryjamesbond

    Whenever I read anything by the NRA or their ilk, I always remember Kipling.

    “They never told the ramping crowd to card a woman’s hide,
    They never marked a man for death — what fault of theirs he died? –
    They only said “intimidate,” and talked and went away –
    By God, the boys that did the work were braver men than they!

    “The charge is old”? — As old as Cain — as fresh as yesterday;
    Old as the Ten Commandments — have ye talked those laws away?
    If words are words, or death is death, or powder sends the ball,
    You spoke the words that sped the shot — the curse be on you all!”

    The entire thing is still sadly relevant.

    http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/cleared.html

  • Tapetum

     Well, speaking to the racial angle, I have never, not even once, seen a gun-rights or NRA supporter suggest that Treyvon Martin wouldn’t be dead if only he’d had a gun to protect himself with.

    I wonder why that would be?

  • AnonymousSam

    “In the event that Ted Nugent does speak, the Enrichment Center urges you to disregard his advice…”

  • AnonymousSam

    To be fair, last I was aware, Australia has a combination of laws and policies that render it impossible (in fact, highly illegal) to sell or purchase certain violent video games (possibly movies too). Any game not rated by the Australian Classification Board cannot legally be sold in the country.

  • LL

    Many Americans feel about guns the same way they feel about cars (and with the same result). They don’t take them seriously as tools that should be used responsibly. They see them as extensions of themselves, as an item that brands them as a badass. 

    Not saying cars and guns are exactly the same, just saying. The immature and irresponsible attitudes towards something powerful that can kill innocent people are kinda similar. Approximately the same number of people are killed in the U.S. by both causes (guns and cars), about 32,000. Experts think that by 2015, gun deaths will exceed auto deaths for the first time ever. 

  • LL

    Note: 32,000 people killed PER YEAR by guns and cars. 

    Forgot to add that.

  • http://deird1.dreamwidth.org Deird

    Few Australians would deny that their country is safer today as a consequence of gun control.

    No, we really wouldn’t. John Howard is a controversial man, but pretty much everyone applauds him for putting that piece of legislation through.

    (I was on campus during the only Australian mass shooting in the last fifteen years. Two people were killed. Two. Largely because the worst weapons the shooter could get hold of were handguns.)

  • Random_Lurker

    The Enrichment Center reminds you that the Ted Nugent will (probably) never threaten to stab you and, in fact, should not speak.

  • http://profiles.google.com/marc.k.mielke Marc Mielke

    Aww…Cat Scratch Fever was kind of ace. Other than that I would say the man was exploiting what appears to be a moderate case of Tourette’s Syndrome by calling it a performance. 

  • Daughter

    Motor vehicle deaths in the U.S. have been decreasing steadily since 1980 – due to seat belt laws, crackdowns on DUI’s, and public awareness campaigns telling people not to drink and drive.

    So you can’t eliminate all deaths from a certain cause, but you can put laws and public norms in place to reduce them.

  • http://profiles.google.com/marc.k.mielke Marc Mielke

    Which is an utter and total joke as applied to PC Games. It’s fairly easy to get an after-market patch to put all that lovely gore back in. 

  • Daughter
  • AnonymousSam

    Ted Nugent may be weighted, but he is not my companion. D:

  • Random_Lurker

    American citizen deaths by shooting in 2010: 31,076
    American Soldier deaths in Iraq war (2003-2012): 4,486American casualties of the Vietnam War (1955-1975): appx. 58,000That’s right, in two years more gun homicides occur here at home then in the entire Vietnam War.There is no honest or moral basis for opposing gun control.

  • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

    The “guns will make you safer” crowd seems to think that the good guys will always shoot faster than the bad guys. It’s deeply weird.

    In The Last Continent, Rincewind muses on the fact that when you’re holding a gun, you’re a much bigger danger to other people with guns, and so the other people with guns will be much more intent on killing you. 

  • http://vovinyl.blogspot.com/ FangsFirst

    I like the self-titled, first post-Amboy Dukes album, (the one with “Stranglehold” and a lot more from Derek St. Holmes on it). And the Amboy Dukes, for that matter.

    I also like Cat Scratch Fever and Free-for-All.

    But then, my taste is notoriously eccentric. And, apparently, “overly egalitarian”, so sayeth some. Which, I guess, is why I write a blog reviewing all of my records. Let’s me explain why I like them.

    Kind of dreading dealing with Free-For-All. I don’t particularly want to deal with justifiable but unrelated “He’s a horrible asshole” comments, nor…most of his fans. Oh well. Still on “C” for now…”N” is a long way off.

  • Cathy W

    Also that you can tell who’s a good guy and who’s a bad guy by looking. Last time I checked, they did not actually issue twirly mustaches and black hats to the “bad guys”…

  • Rhubarbarian82

    Largely because the worst weapons the shooter could get hold of were handguns.

    I’m honestly not sure what you mean by this, as the majority of our gun violence is committed with handguns (helpful chart here, from the Bureau of Justice). Handguns are extremely deadly.

  • Foelhe

    There’s also the creepy levels of “tough on crime” that get wrapped up in that conversation. I remember hearing a pro-gun-rights story about a woman almost getting her purse snatched, whipping out a pistol and killing the thief.

    I guess we weren’t supposed to go “… Wait, she killed a guy for stealing a purse?” but that was certainly my reaction.

  • http://deird1.dreamwidth.org Deird

    We don’t really have semi-automatics, or guns with large numbers of bullets. The shooter was stopped very fast – when he stopped shooting to change weapons.

  • http://blog.trenchcoatsoft.com Ross

     I’ve seen LOTS of americans look at Australia’s gun laws and what happened.

    They all reach the same conclusion:

    “Gun violence went UP right after the ban and then went down over several years. This is 100% absolute proof that gun bans INCREASE gun violence. The later decline is clearly due to an overall trend that would have happened with or without the ban.”

  • http://blog.trenchcoatsoft.com Ross

     Yeah. I’ve had folks tell me that the decline in gun violence in austrialia is clearly due to the violent video game ban, and not the gun ban at all.

  • SergeantHeretic

    As far as I am concerned, the claim that guns make American safer or freer is nothing but facile self serving far right wing nonsense. If anything the more guns Americans have the less safe and less free we are. Why would anyone want to live i nthe kind of paranoid fear choked misery that a preponderance of guns creates?

    I am not indicting every gun owner, but I do have very serious questions of ethics, morals and sanity for the people that won’t even allow a basic study of the statistics and numbers on gun violence in this country.

  • hidden_urchin

    Yeah. I don’t own a thing that is worth killing (or dying) for.  The only time I would consider responding with force is for a threat to my person or loved ones but I consider the risk of such an event to be statistically too low to justify the expense, effort, and responsibility of carrying a gun. 

    I also really just don’t want to live like everyone is out to get me.  That’s not a good world.  I know some people who have that mindset (yup, they carry) and they aren’t really pleasant people a lot of the time.  They are very anxious and frightened and it comes out in their conversation and behavior.  They’re also a lot less likely to give other people the benefit of the doubt or respond graciously to the mistakes of others.  I don’t want to be that way.

    Oh, and on the topic of guns and racism, when anyone makes an argument for CCL  in a conversation with me they tend to say “what would you do if you were walking in a dark alley at night and encountered a 250 lb. black guy*?” Yeah, I think there’s some racism in there.

    *It may help to note that I am a 115 lb. white woman and the speaker has always been a white man.   

  • http://timothy.green.name/ Timothy (TRiG)
  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Don-Gisselbeck/520678931 Don Gisselbeck

    The most annoying part of this gun discussion is the failure to recognize the high skill level needed for any sort of practical shooting. It can’t be easier than trombone playing, and 10 hours  week is not enough for me to perform reliably  and accurately under pressure. 

  • MaryKaye

    The argument that completely convinced me was told to me by a police officer after a shooting at our university.  She said:  You hear gunfire.  You step out of your office with your gun in hand and see person A standing in a doorway with a gun in his hand and person B lying on the ground.  Who do you shoot?

    Suppose you reason that person A has shot person B and needs to be stopped to save more lives.  Well and good–you shoot person A, and we’ll assume you hit him.

    Person C now steps out of *her* office behind you.  She has the same data you do (except one more victim lying on the ground).  If you were justified in shooting A, she is justified in shooting you.  Bang, you’re dead.

    In way too many of these situations you would not know who to shoot.  With our current no-weapons policy you know the person with the gun is the attacker.  If everyone in sight is brandishing a gun…you know nothing, and a bloodbath seems like the natural outcome if you start firing.

    I have once been held at gunpoint.  I am not sorry at *all* that I was unarmed, because no one died, and if I’d been armed maybe someone would have died, maybe me–the person with the gun was not motivated to shoot me, since I was unarmed, but he was certainly upset and irrational and might have felt differently if I’d been armed.  Or maybe I would have shot him, which would have sucked compared to the actual outcome (no one was shot).

  • Lori

    Can you imagine if there was a place called Islamic Solider Firearms? 

    I can imagine it easily. I’d put the overs & unders on the place being burned to the ground at 36 hours.

  • Lori

     

    and we’ll assume you hit him.   

    This obviously being a huge assumption.

    Have folks been following the story in S. California about the ex-LAPD officer with a vendetta and a lot of guns? He’s killed one cop and the daughter of another cop and her boyfriend and his “manifesto” has a whole long list of other officers he wanted to kill. LA county has 50 people in protective custody until this guy is found.

    Saying that the police in LA, Orange and San Diego counties are a little amped up is a huge understatement. Since this started last week there have been several “mistaken shootings” by cops. In one case two officers opened fire on a truck they believed belonged to the suspect. The suspect is a 34 year old black man who clearly spends a lot of time in the gym. The driver and passenger in the truck were two older Latino ladies delivering the LA Times.

    The cops fired at least 46 bullets into the truck, at least 9 of which went through the back window on the driver’s side. Both of the women are alive. That’s good news, don’t get me wrong. However, it doesn’t inspire great confidence in the shooting skills of the officers involved.

    If the cops are that bad I somehow doubt the person who rarely if ever goes to the range has much chance of doing better. Everyone fancies himself a gun slinger, few actually are.

    And of course even being really (really, really) good with a gun doesn’t mean that a gun can always save your life.

    http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/03/nation/la-na-kyle-killing-20130204

  • http://blog.trenchcoatsoft.com Ross

    Last ‘Real Time’, Maher made a comment that I’ve been having trouble coming up with a response to. He said “If you’re in a restaurant, and an armed gunman forces his way in, are you really going to think, ‘Thank god he’s the only one with a gun’?”

    All I’ve really got is “Yes, but that scenario is incredibly unlikely”

  • EllieMurasaki

    I’ve seen it. I’ve seen it HERE.

  • http://dpolicar.livejournal.com/ Dave

    If it’s being said in the context of a genuine conversation, my response to that is “No, I probably won’t think that. What follows from that?”

    If it’s being said in the context of a public point-scoring exchange, my response to that is “Right, because what we really need in that situation is twenty armed gunmen instead of one. That’ll help.”

  • EllieMurasaki

    How often do US mass shootings involve handguns? How often do they involve machine guns?

  • Foelhe

    Course, if the armed gunman forces his way in, and then a customer whips out a pistol and accidentally kills one of the wait staff, I’d certainly start wishing he was the only one with a gun.

    The grass is always greener, apparently.

  • Tricksterson

    You don’t heckle a parent who is mourning their child.

    What is so frikkin’ difficult about that idea to comprehend?

  • LoneWolf343

     You reply with “That is an appeal to emotion that doesn’t reflect reality.”

  • LoneWolf343

     When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.


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