A Coupla Catholic Guys…

…sittin’ around, talkin’ about faith and society:

Went looking for this after reading Peter Wehner’s thoughts on Brit Hume’s remarks on Tiger Woods.

Also, Bill O’ Reilly touches base with Hume over what he meant by his initial remarks.

To those who wonder if I am as uncomfortable with Hume discussing religion in this clip, as I was earlier, the answer is no; in fact I think it’s great. Some might recall that I defended what Hume said on the Fox News panel, I merely expressed reservations about the venue. I maintained several days ago that time and place do matter, and -as Muggeridge suggests in the first clip- so does tone. In fact, I like how Bender finally put it in the comments section of that post:

I will grant that there are more or less effective ways of proclaiming Christ, and the time and place may require a more delicate manner — the hard sell is not always the right way (and is often the “wrong way,” that is, an ineffective way) — but Christ should always and everywhere shine through us in some manner.

Indeed. I gotta tell you, the Christians who felt the need to email me that they’d “always suspected” that I was “not a real Christian” because I did not sufficiently and unreservedly praise Hume were probably using what I’d call the “ineffective” way to “instruct and admonish” me, and to proclaim the love and tender mercies of Our Lord and Redeemer. No matter what, I’m still going to process what comes my way by whatever light and reason the Holy Spirit has lain upon me, as I believe we are all called to do. But keep at me; keep trying. I am a sinner, and when you guys take the time to shove my head in the toilet for not measuring up, it does me good. I learn a lot! :-)

More entertaining thoughts on faith and society here.

More at Hot Air

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  • http://jscafenette.com Jeanette

    If Hume is a devout Christian (whatever the denomination) he is compelled by Jesus to tell the world. Tell them and let them decide, but tell those who have not really heard the Gospel.

    Jesus said if we will not confess Him before men He will not confess us before His Father.

    And that answers the person who made a put-down about altar calls in Protestant churches.

    My denomination is not the only one to go to heaven and not all in my denomination will go to heaven. The same can be said of every Christian denomination and it really grieved me to read some of the comments on the other thread.

    Just my two cents for what it’s worth.

  • http://greatspiritualbattle.com Steve

    Jeanette: You are right that not every one who calls Jesus Lord will go to Heaven. He clearly states that in the Scriptures, as well as stating to His Apostles that they were not to stop others from preaching in His Name, even though they were not followers of the Twelve. Indeed, Jesus tells us: “And other sheep I have, that are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear My voice, and there shall be one fold and one Shepherd” (John 10:16, Latin Vulgate).

    That said, I think, we, as believers, have to understand that we have lost that all-important comprehension of a place called Purgatory. That is where the Lord does the cleanup of His sheep that truly believed, loved and worshiped Him, but were separated from His cleansing Sacraments (i.e., Confession, Eucharist, etc).

    That’s where the “altar call” comes in. We are living in a time when there are too many “opinions” on and rewrites of Scripture by protestants. So what I learned was, don’t listen to me or some guy who can raise $2.4 million in a few days, but listen to the Saints! They, as a collective body, cannot be wrong. And when one listens to their collective voice, the same beliefs and mystical experiences hold fast. I say this as someone who ran the gamut from raised Catholic to total rejection, to agnosticism, to protestantism, and back home again. We, as Christians, have forgotten that there is no salvation outside the Church (despite its many human flaws and fallible hierarchy). But what that means is not that every protestant is going to hell (or every Catholic going to Heaven), but watch out for that cleansing fire Paul speaks of in I Corinthians 3. Just because someone called upon the Name of the Lord doesn’t exactly equate to a direct ticket into the pearly gates. You cannot sit at the Lord’s Table and have ignored His Mother, thinking She is only your sister in Christ, as opposed to the Queen who sits at the Right Hand of the Lord (again, reference the Saints, not Oral Roberts, etc).

    And by being one who believes in Sacramental graces, one is held to an even higher standard and can slip even quicker than the innocent sheep that does not understand (Purgatory time again).

    So in light of the horrific secular, atheistic, scientific, islamic, and other anti-Christ belief systems we are currently facing, we should, as believers, not put each other down. But that means protestants must stop calling the Church names, or putting down Mary and our love for Her. For if anyone loves Mary more than us, it is Her Son. Let us not, therefore, be ignorant that God is not mocked and, as the Just Judge, He knows the hearts of all. And a good way He judges us is how we feel about His Family.

    In this, we pray for the Lord to bring all into His ultimate Plan of one fold and one Shepherd.

  • Lindy

    It’s that name. That’s the jarring note. That name, pronounced out loud, is what makes folks squirm.

    We prefer euphemisms because they keep us in our comfort zone, which is what they’re formulated to do. So we can talk about God all day long and never, ever get uncomfortably specific. But just utter that name and everyone shifts in their seat.

    Maybe it’s in that moment when we are the most reluctant to pronounce the name that we are the most compelled to do so.

    Jesus. Just say it. Jesus. Watch what happens to the conversation.

  • J

    We have so far removed God from daily conversation, his name has become an exclamation mark in our dialogue. More discussion of Christ’s teachings might be a nice thing. Right now, on national geographic channel and the history channel, they are doing their utmost to focus us on the impossibility of Christ’s existence and completely ignoring the message he delivered.

  • Scott Jerome

    Anchoress.
    I think that maybe two of the most difficult things for somebody who chooses to maintain a blog about faith and the Catholic Church and the Great Redeemer, are the aching sense of shame that readers might sense a particle of pride and that there might actually BE a particle of pride.

    You are a humble Christian, Anchoress. Keep up the great work. But don’t get a big head over it. ;-)

  • SuzyQ

    The furniture repair guy who was in my home yesterday fixing the leg on my new sofa began prosyletizing about Jesus Christ the minute he plopped down his tool box. A perfect stranger, in my living room on business. I am a Catholic and I love Jesus, but I’m with you, Anchoress, on the venue point. It felt false and preachy and out-of-context. If he’d been spouting out praise of Allah or trying to convert me to Mormonism, I’d have been totally pissed off. In this case, it was just weird. Contrived and forced. That won’t win over anyone.

  • http://jscafenette.com Jeanette

    Steve,

    I appreciate your comment, but I must tell you that evangelicals believe those who are saved are actually saints here on earth.

    I hope this doesn’t shock anyone, but that’s what we believe.

    Mary was a special woman even in God’s eyes and that’s why He chose her to bear His Only Begotten Son. I don’t argue with that.

    I believe that because of my faith and acceptance of Jesus as my Savior I am a member of the Family of God; a child of God.

    When Jesus spoke of his other sheep He was speaking of the non-Jews at that time. Jews still for the most part reject Him as the Messiah. They will also be called in to the Good Shepherd and will be His sheep, but it has to be done while they are alive.

    I don’t believe in purgatory because Jesus spoke of the rich man and Lazarus. Lazarus got the crumbs the dogs didn’t eat, but they both died and the rich man was in Hades and saw Lazarus in the bosom of Abraham and begged for just a drop of water and then begged that Lazarus would be sent back to his brothers that they wouldn’t suffer his punishment.

    Abraham told the rich man (notice he had no name but Lazarus did) that there was a gulf that separated them and Lazarus could no more go to the rich man than the rich man could go to Lazarus.

    This was before Jesus died and rose again, so Hades was the “holding place” for what we call the Old Testament saints or believers and followers of God and His law. Once Jesus died He went to Hades and took the redeemed out of Hades and into heaven. “This day thou shalt be with me in paradise.”

    I don’t criticize the Catholic church or its beliefs even though they are not all my beliefs, but I have seen protestants mocked by saying we have changed Scripture and don’t partake of the Eucharist.

    I don’t mock Mary and thought Pope John Paul II was a very holy man.

    Maybe I should stay out of the religious discussions on this site so as not to cause friction as I believe friction in the Church (body of believers, regardless of religion) grieves our Lord and our God.

    We just worship Him in different ways. Can we not all accept that? I come from a family that is Baptist on my mother’s side and very Catholic on my father’s side. We have discussions for reasons of me understanding the Catholic faith better but we never put each other down.

    Our pastors have studied the original Greek, Latin and Hebrew to get the right definitions, and I doubt we differ very much.

    See you all in heaven!

  • Mimsy

    I’m glad that you have changed your mind about Brit Hume’s (fairly humble, in my perception) suggestion to Tiger. Yes, the venue was unusual, but it was an opinion show.
    Of course, I was not one casting aspersions on your Christianity, which would be really tacky from another imperfect being. I have enough trouble managing my own (and my family’s) proclivities. (Yes, the fam helps keep track of mine, too.)
    And I hope that you are feeling better.

    [I did not change my mind. I never criticized what he said. I criticized the venue. I just wrote that I still don't care much for that venue, but prefer his one-on-one with O' Reilly. As to the other, I was not referencing any of the remarks in the comments section, but two particular emails I received from Christians who felt I was not measuring up in a very extreme way! :-) --admin]

  • http://domesticapologist.blogspot.com/ Domestic Apologist

    Thank you for the link to Wiser Time! His “Coexist?” post was spot-on.

  • http://minoroutside.blogspot.com cminor

    Indeed, thanks for the link to the Wiser Time post. I see those stickers everywhere and I found his analysis astute.

    Re Brit Hume, I came into this topic late and didn’t go through the yards of comments on the original post. Didn’t anyone else get the sense that his remarks were a spontaneous burst of emotion and not planned proselytizing? If this is the case, it’s time for the outraged to get over it.

  • Hannah G

    I’m trying to think–what is the name of that Freud’s defense mechanism whereby one takes out one’s wrath on a safer substitute target, is it called transference?

    It is safe to predict that as anger with certain religious groups increase the heat will be turned up on Christians more and more.

    The old ways (mainly keeping our mouths shut) won’t work much longer so we might as well make ourselves heard in the public square, that or expect to be driven completely underground.

  • Alice

    Maybe the Christians who felt the need to email you, Anchoress, need to look in the mirror. I get so tired of Christians thinking they can channel God. All any of us can do is our prayerful best. And you do a Good Job!

  • By the Sea

    It is interesting that the media is focusing much on how many $’s will be lost in advertising promotions. I think much of the focus on the money aspect is because they are embarrassed to tackle the marriage aspect–the importance and meaning of marriage to society. It’s the bull vs. the matador, but the media focuses on the clown whose only job is to distract…

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