Gosnell; Baby Feet Kick the Nation – UPDATES

If your stomach and your psyche can stand it, read the grand jury report on this fiendish abortionist, Kermit Gosnell.

I have been afraid to write about this woman-killing, baby-slaughtering, fertility-stealing, heartless and exploitative freak since the story broke. It’s been that horrifying.

But I agree with the assertion of the district attorney that Gosnell was able to get along with for so long by design.

The State Legislature has charged the Department of Health (DOH) with responsibility for writing and enforcing regulations to protect health and safety in abortion clinics as well as in hospitals and other health care facilities. Yet a significant difference exists between how DOH monitors abortion clinics and how it monitors facilities where other medical procedures are performed.

Indeed, the department has shown an utter disregard both for the safety of women who seek treatment at abortion clinics and for the health of fetuses after they have become viable. State health officials have also shown a disregard for the laws the department is supposed to enforce. Most appalling of all, the Department of Health’s neglect of abortion patients’ safety and of Pennsylvania laws is clearly not inadvertent: It is by design. …

State health officials knew that Gosnell and his clinic were offering unacceptable medical care to women and girls, yet DOH failed to take any action to stop the atrocities documented by this Grand Jury.

Of course this neglect toward patient’s safety and the law is by design. A shoddy operation like Gosnell’s could not have continued to perpetrate medical atrocities on women, unless somewhere along the line situations were going unreported and investigations were left unassigned as true-believers within the system looked determinedly away. See pages 9-15 of the report. In fact, just keep reading.

For them, I suppose, these dead or maimed women might be considered “collateral damage” in the efforts to preserve a “choice” they consider sacrosanct. If a few women perish along with the million babies per year, well, it’s such a small number, right?

And if some women are left scarred, maimed or infertile, well…probably they’re the sort of women who shouldn’t have babies, anyway, right?

After all, Margaret Sanger — the poster girl for pro-choice advocates in America — was all about making sure that certain races and certain classes of people were discouraged from reproducing. But you’re not supposed to know that, or at least you’re not supposed to acknowledge that. To do so would be as rude as forcing people to consider that the only way to prevent a pregnancy from advancing to new life is to “stop” it unnaturally, or to note that “stopping” is just a euphemism for “killing.” Because that’s the only way to stop new life from flourishing: by killing it.

But it’s rude to mention that. It is also rude (and “shrill”) to mention in polite company that the method of killing the new life involves reaching deep within a woman’s body with unnatural instrumentation and either sucking the baby, bit-by-bit, through a vacuum tube into a jar, or scraping it out of her, limb-by-limb.

And it is beyond rude to suggest to true-believers (many of whom are enthusiastic students of social and psychological theory) that the violent death-and-dismemberment being performed within a woman’s womb — deep inside her body — may produce both physical repercussions on her body, and psychological repercussions within society.

Intelligent people — people who pride themselves on having curious minds, who have studied philosophy and arcana, and who often allow for notions of karmic energies while rejecting the idea of a sin — would prefer to keep to their euphemisms and change the subject rather than consider what affect it may have on a nation, when so many of its women are walking around carrying all of that unanswered negativity and violence within their bodies.

To approach such people with a Bible and the idea that there was a real child, begotten of God, torn to shreds within the living tissue of its mother, whose soul (her life-force) might then be in peril due to that act, is so profoundly rude and full of “magical thinking” as to inspire mockery and jeering disdain.

To approach them with The Tao and the idea that there was a real being, energetically positive, violently destroyed in a burst of extreme, negative energy — energy that remains within the woman and will affect her chi, her lifeforce, is also rude. But it also scares them to fury.

Generally the true believers in abortion, very comfortable with dismissing all that unsophisticated Judeo/Christian moralizing, find it much more difficult to respond to those arguing from the side of Eastern philosophy. For one thing, Eastern philosophy — if it is embraced superficially — seems so modern and smart and permissive; it’s not full of that dread word “no,” and so they can’t accept that it might contain an argument against abortion.

For another thing, hey, all that talk about “energy” that’s sort of science-y right? And science is supposed to be respectable in ways theology is not.

Yesterday on Twitter, a journalist wrote: “This abortion doctor story is gruesome. Anti-choicers will seize on it, but it’s about criminal behavior, not abortion.”

Its funny how framing works. A massacre perpetrated by a deranged man is not about the deranged man; it’s about “rhetoric.” But a massacre perpetrated by an abortion provider whose violations against laws of the nation and of humanity were overlooked for years is “not about abortion.” It’s about criminal behavior, and that’s all. But some of our most prominent politicians have voted against the very bill — the “born alive” bill — that defines such behavior as criminal. Meaning, I guess, that if only enough politicians had voted with Sen. Barack Obama, Gosnell’s behavior would not be “criminal” at all, and therefore we wouldn’t even be talking about it?

Well, the story of Kermit Gosnell is about abortion; it’s about abortion in America. And abortion in America is about a mindset, — even (or especially) among regulation-happy folk who will make a big noise about public safety on issues large and small — a mindset that will protect a Gosnell, and purposely turn a blind eye to abortion centers and practitioners and all of their lapses and illegalities, as long as the abortions keep on coming.

If that were not true, if the blind eye were not being turned, don’t you think someone — before now — would have seen and been disgusted by Kermit Gosnell’s collection of severed baby feet?

Look at the photo, if you can take it. It’s a kick to the gut.

UPDATE I: Ace notes that all three major news networks embargoed this story. They’re going to want this one to be flushed down the drain, like a “precipitated” fetus, as soon as possible.

UPDATE II: Leticia Velasquez, whose daughter has Down syndrome, writes about the cognitive dissonance that leads some to take great pains with language while discussing those they’d rather see aborted. She dares to be provocative, and to challenge:

Given the choice, I would prefer my daughter to be called a “retard” and know that abortion of babies with Down syndrome had ceased. Early last month President Barack Obama signed a law decreeing that federal statutes must no longer use the term “mental retardation.” The phrase replacing it will be “intellectual disability.”

Many Down syndrome advocates were jubilant, but I am more skeptical. [...] It seems that, every few decades, old terms for those with physical disabilities or cognitive delays are abandoned in favor of new ones, since existing terms have developed a negative connotation.

But drawing a new word from the thesaurus is not enough. We have to respect the right of the mentally disabled to exist. We need to stop aborting them.

Plainspoken and forthright. You’ll want to read the whole thing.

Ultrasound Abortions; What No One Sees
Fr. Dwight Longenecker
Forty Years
Chicago Boyz
“We’re Fighting the Bloody Lot”
GOP introduces ban on Fed Funding for Abortion
Ace excerpts a large portion of the report
Eric Sammons
Catholic Hospital Restrictions Controversial
“Little Angel Who Almost Wasn’t”
The Abortion Seesaw

About Elizabeth Scalia
  • Rhinestone Suderman

    Wasn’t Roe supposedly going to save women from brutal, back-street abortions?

    It doesn’t seem to working out that way. And the authorities do seem to be turning a blind eye to abortion clinic abuses.

    Could it be that abortion itself, by its very nature, is an evil thing, and brutalizes all who come into contact with it? That there’s no way of making it all clean and easy and nicens?

  • Gail F

    One of the stories I read on this horrible man included a quote about his killing the children he delivered alive. It said something like “a high percentage of babies were killed” at the clinic, referring to the ones born alive — and of course the truth is that 100% of the babies were killed at this clinic.

    I hope that some people who have not thought about abortion before now, I mean really THOUGHT about it, will understand at last that whether you kill the baby in the womb or you deliver it and then kill it, it is killing a baby either way.

    It is difficult to believe anyone could be as disgusting as this so-called doctor — yet he had a whole staff of people working for him.

  • Rhinestone Suderman

    He had a whole staff, Gail, and a DOH which turned a tolerant blind eye to his grisley antics.

    Wasn’t Roe supposed to save us from back room abortionists, and make abortion okay?

    It’s time to think. It’s past time to think.

  • SKAY

    It seemed to be all about the money for the Doctor.
    I do not think that he is the only one in this awful business with this mindset.

  • http://sailorette.blogspot.com Foxfier

    I favor the biology route, myself– it drives them nuts as much as the rest, and they’ll keep trying to change the subject, but keep asking:

    Do you deny that a fetus is a human, or do you say some humans are not people? Will you deny biology? Or admit that you are labeling this group of humans as non-persons?

    It hasn’t caused any changes of heart that I’ve seen, but I hope it gets through eventually. You’ll get really tired of asking the same question over and over while they try to change the subject.

    Some places that might help:
    Characteristics of a living organism.
    Human reproduction and development.
    A PDF white paper on when life begins, from the Westchester Institute (A bioethics site that respects humanity.)
    Secondhand Smoke Bioethics blog isn’t as neatly organized, but their search works fairly well and he brings up current news stories.

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  • Mandy P.

    I read both of Ace’s posts on this. It is just absolutely horrifying. The worst part for me is knowing that for some people, the physical location of the baby at the time of the killing makes a difference in how they see things. There are a lot of people out there that would completely justify the same exact behavior of this doctor had it taken place inside the uterus or the birth canal. It’s a murder one way but a medical procedure another, the difference between the two only being a matter of inches. Disgusting.

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  • alanstorm

    The medical profession is subject to a huge amount of government regulation and oversight. Let me know how that’s protecting people, won’t you?

    And the cure for this is always the same: Even MORE “oversight”, by people who share no blame when the oversight fails again.

  • http://theornithophobe.blogspot.com/ Nmissi

    Why is anyone surprised at this? You have to consider what sort of person will be drawn to this kind of “work.” Someone that enjoys death, that enjoys causing physical damage and dismemberment. This is the kind of “work” where, after the “procedure,” someone has to line up the bits of a dead child on a tray and make sure they’re all accounted for. How many normal, healthy people could do that, day after day, for years? None. It takes the mindset of a monster to do this kind of a job; consequently, we’re going to find a high percentage of professional abortionists have sociopathic tendencies. I’d put good money on that. You just can’t hack babies to bits and be possessed of a normal, well adjusted personality. This fella only made the news because he kept trophies, and someone took photographs of them. I expect the practice is common in his line of “work.”

  • John W. Martens

    I actually cannot read anything about this man or what he did; I get a sentence in and I stop. I know it must be brought to public attention and I know brave souls will have to look at photos and see things they ought not have to see during the trial. I have decided that the best thing for me to do is pray, for the victims, who were so young, and for those who perpetrated this horror.

  • http://gmsplace.com GM Roper

    I freely admit I don’t have the stomach to look at the gory photos…

    In my mind, abortion either early or late term has always been an euphemism for killing a child.

  • http://jscafenette.com/ Manny

    I was about to write about this on my blog last night and my stomach just wouldn’t let me. I still might. I know the Catholic Church does not support the death penalty and I’ve been unsuccessfully trying to agree with them, pushing myself toward a philosophy of mercy, but the pull of justice won’t quite let me. It would be unjust if this filth, this animal, this monster did not face the ultimate penalty for his crimes against humanity. On top of that, may he burn in hell.

  • ds0490

    There’s no doubt that this fellow got away with murder for many years. And it’s easy to blame abortion politics as the only cause of this. Of course, as the report suggests, we shouldn’t overlook some other factors at play here…ones that might be a bit more uncomfortable to discuss in our comfortable middle-class homes.


    “We think the reason no one acted is because the women in question were poor and of color, because the victims were infants without identities and because the subject was the political football of abortion,” the report said.”

    “White women from the suburbs were ushered into a separate, slightly cleaner area because Gosnell believed they were more likely to file complaints, Williams said.”

    “Under Pennsylvania law, abortions are illegal after 24 weeks of pregnancy, or just under six months, and most doctors won’t perform them after 20 weeks because of the risks, prosecutors said.”

    With late term abortions illegal in the state, it is worth pointing out that what happened in this clinic is exactly what the pro-choice community predicted would happen. Wealthier (and generally white) patients go elsewhere for service. That leaves the poor (and generally minority) patients to the tender mercies of monsters like this “doctor.”

    The doctor and his crew deserve to have the book thrown at them, as do the inspectors in the DoH that allowed this to continue for a generation or more. But if you think this is going to go away just by reversing Roe and preaching abstinence-only sex-ed, you are deluding yourselves.

  • archangel

    Manny- The Catholic Church’s stance on capital punsihment does not preclude its use. If the crime is heinous enough and society can only be protected by its use, then it is allowed.

    I have always said that I would gladly trade “capital punishment” for “abortion”. I would gladly outlaw the death penalty if they would outlaw abortion. The culture of death doesn’t want to make the trade though. They’d rather keep guilty fiends alive and kill the innocent unborn.

    Such is the glimpse of Hell.

  • jim

    Elizabeth, thanks for such a clear and honest post. I am beyond baffled at the pro choice population and their blindness around the question of “geography” and “location”. What this doctor did in his office to viable babies is what is happening to every aborted baby out of view within the mother’s body. We are only talking about location in defining an acceptable killing from an unacceptable killing. Why does location carry such moral weight when it comes to identical acts?What we can’t see is now good,and when we see it it becomes horrible. What kind of magical thinking is that? Staring at the truth of abortion is very painful especially for those who have a stake in its ongoing availability. Who benefits from the killing of children??


  • http://theornithophobe.blogspot.com/ Nmissi

    I’ve just finished reading it, and I noticed something that isn’t getting much attention- it’s only a line or so, and maybe it’s being overlooked in all the horror. But in addition to the feet trophies, he also took photographs of the women’s genitals. One person in the report says he showed them and admired the way the woman’s labia had been sewn together in such a fashion as to permit blood flow… I think he’s talking abt female circumcision. (Sick, sick practice.) What do we know abt his background? He might be into other types of barbarism, on top of the baby butchery.

  • Mike

    Thank you for writing this article. Though painful to read, I’m sure it was more painful to research and write. Imagine- collecting baby feet in bottles like trophies , sort of like alien in the Sci-Fi movie-Predator who collected skulls. In the real world and the imagined one – Monsters having emptiness where their souls should be.

  • Brian English

    “With late term abortions illegal in the state, it is worth pointing out that what happened in this clinic is exactly what the pro-choice community predicted would happen. Wealthier (and generally white) patients go elsewhere for service. That leaves the poor (and generally minority) patients to the tender mercies of monsters like this “doctor.”

    They didn’t go elsewhere. They were sent to a slightly cleaner waiting area.

    And in any event, what is your solution? Should we make all late-term abortions legal?

    As some of the comments above indicate, the real issue here is the nauseating hypocrisy of a society that calls it murder if the baby is fully delivered, but doesn’t have a problem with killing a baby if some part of the child is still in the birth canal.

  • Susan

    Hi Elizabeth,

    I wanted to email this to you since it’s a little off-topic yet somewhat related to this post since it’s about Margaret Sanger and abortion.

    It is an interview that was given about the history of abortion. What especially impressed me was that during a portion of the interview, he clearly presents how Sanger was able to reframe abortion and used the Roman Catholic Church as a scapegoat. It reminded me of our current politics and thought you would enjoy this interview.

    I hope you can fix the link for this since I don’t know how to do it for this format (I’m an oldster).

    JAN 19, 2011

    Title: Planned Parenthood Founder Margarget Sanger’s Propaganda Campaign

    Dr. Allan Carlson of The Howard Center for Family, Religion & Society


  • Nan

    Very satanic. How was he allowed to operate his butcher shop for so long? The sad part: there are probably more like him all over the world. We need to pray a lot to put an end to abortion.

  • newton

    Many of those “enthusiastic students of social and psychological theory” who refuse to face the “physical repercussions on her body, and psychological repercussions within society” never met my husband’s great-aunt.

    She became pregnant as a teenager and had an abortion. But the whole “procedure” damaged her reproductive system in such a way that she never again was able to conceive, let alone to have a child. She eventually married a nice man – a Lutheran minister, it turns out -, but the damage to her psyche had already been permanently done.

    She tried to make up for her grief, in no small way, when she was my husband’s babysitter. He always held a deep affection for his “Aunt Louise”, but the sadness that emanated from her eyes (even her glass eye in her later years) was inescapable.

    Coincidentally, she was one of those in his family who opposed our (mixed) marriage. Her comment to his parents a few months before our wedding, “I hope they NEVER have children!”, could have only come from a bitter woman.

    It was years after, when she had passed on and my husband received all of her important papers, photos, mementos and a vintage, framed graphic with the Lord’s Prayer, we realized what had happened to her. All we could do was to feel very sorry for her – and the one decision that determined the rest of her life.

  • Teresa D.

    I think it is time that we stopped calling Gosnell a doctor. He is an abortionist first and foremost. He found a welcoming home in Pennsylvania after he lost his license in several other states. We certainly have come a long way since Stanton and Susan B Anthony. Even they were opposed to abortion in their time. The Republicans in the House are introducing a bill this week that would at least ban all Federal funding of abortion. At least that is a start even though it does not go nearly far enough. The pro -abortion true believers must be defeated. While I’m at it, shall we dispense with the “pro-choice” terminology they use? Call it what it is.

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  • Don L

    Why is this man considered so repulsive and Obama who fought for the right to do what he did (kill post -abortion babies.) gets elected president?

    What we miss in this, is the fact that killing babies after they’re born is an Obama desire -as long as the “intent” (Harvard legal term) He didn’t mention scissors in his efforts, but then again he never said when “intent” began and ended – leaving the door open for some future (Harvard trained) Supreme Court Justice to decide (two years, twenty-two years, who knows?)

  • francesca

    Exactly, Anchoress, a valid expression of faith, for any religion or moral framework, resists imposition of pain, cruelty and torture on a fellow human being.

  • http://jscafenette.com/ Manny

    To archangel:
    “Manny- The Catholic Church’s stance on capital punsihment does not preclude its use. If the crime is heinous enough and society can only be protected by its use, then it is allowed.”

    Yes I am aware of that but there isn’t any situation where society wouldn’t be protected by someone in jail for life. So I believe the church position is that in today’s world there is never a reason to use it. I’m also fairly sure that we catholics aren’t required to agree with opposition to the death penalty as we are required to oppose abortion. For me trying to give up on the death penalty is an attempt to enlarge my heart for all humanity, despite the justice that would be served by it. I have not reached such a heart. I continue to support the death penalty, especially for cases like this monster.

    “I have always said that I would gladly trade “capital punishment” for “abortion”. I would gladly outlaw the death penalty if they would outlaw abortion. ”

    Me too! I’ve said the same thing and I now would even throw in gay marriage to boot. How about it Liberals: we’ll trade the death penalty and opposition to gay marriage to end all abortions?

    “The culture of death doesn’t want to make the trade though. They’d rather keep guilty fiends alive and kill the innocent unborn.

    Such is the glimpse of Hell.”

    Agreed. For the left, abortion is their most sacred policy.

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  • J

    Yes, Don, and then, whenever our Catholic school gets its best and brightest into Harvard, the admissions office trumpets this fact in its promotional literature.

    This nation fought a Civil War for less than abortion.

  • http://sailorette.blogspot.com Foxfier

    on that, we greatly disagree. It works in theory, but it would require a life sentence actually be enforced. Great in theory, not so much in reality.

    Going back to the actual topic….

    Real Choice blog either has or links to a lot of information on this sort of thing. Might help those who need ammunition to counter the notion that deaths like this are incredibly rare.

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  • http://runswithangels.wordpress.com/ Jan

    Safe, legal, and rare.


    Although I can see how this vile and depraved man got away with this for as long as he did – after all, any criticism leveled would simply be construed as finger-pointing from the annoying anti-abortionists – what I can’t understand is how he managed to convince so many others that what they were doing was righteous by any stretch of the imagination. What in God’s name were they thinking? And the mother of that high school girl – to subject her child to such horror – it’s just mind-blowing.

    I read about half-way through the grand jury report before I just couldn’t take anymore.

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  • Roz Smith

    Gosnell was also indicted on drug charges. Makes me wonder who some of his business partners might be. That’s because the true believers have covered up for the abortion business in other ways.

    During the Clinton administration a Chicago mob boss was indicted. Several paragraphs into the Chicago Sun Times story about the case, I read a throw away line that the mob boss had his headquarters inside an abortion clinic on the west side that the mob owned. I fax the story to every pro life activist I knew with the line about the abortion clinic underscored. A few weeks later Marvin Olasky’s World Magazine had a cover story on the case. Olasky had sent his best reporter to Chicago. What the reporter found was that the feds had learned that poor women going to the mob owned clinic for an abortion -for which they paid cash- would also be asked to provide their Medicaid information. Another mob connected doctor who did procedures that were covered by Medicaid would then use this information to submit claims for work that had never been performed. Federal prosecutors in the Northern District of Illinois had wanted to include counts of Medicaid fraud in the mob indictments but that was nixed by Washington. Janet Reno wasn’t about to highlight the mob’s involvement in an abortion clinic.

  • http://j3b3.wordpress.com jb


    My comments are on my site.

    My thanks for your post . . . here . . .

    Dominus vobiscum. jb

  • http://eternityroad.info Francis W. Porretto

    Back in the Sixties — you know, before the Dawn of Time — conservatives in opposition to the legalization of abortion predicted that it would lead to a massive loss of respect for all human life.

    How’s that respect doing now? I hear you ask.

  • http://j3b3.wordpress.com jb

    Before the dawn of time–hey! You making fun of a fellow cave man? :-)

    Bookmarked your site. If you haven’t checked them out, over at First Things . . . Second Hand Smoke and First Thoughts have been into the present subject matter.

    FYI. Thanks for your comment, BTW


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  • http://eternityroad.info Francis W. Porretto

    “Make fun of a fellow cave man” — ? Never, jb. Why, when I was born — I can’t remember clearly if it was the early Obscene period, or the lower Messyzoic; after all, I was very young then — the cave hadn’t yet been invented!

    But to the larger topic: There’s some chance that the Gosnell atrocity will awaken the nation’s conscience to the horrors in progress. We have been told not to lose hope:

    “I will tell you what I say,” answered Ransom, jumping to his feet. “Of course good came of it. Is Maleldil a beast, that we can stop His path, or a leaf, that we can twist His shape? Whatever you do, He will make good of it.” [C. S. Lewis, Perelandra]

    So perhaps, having stared into the abyss at whose lip we stand, we might yet be persuaded to draw back. I pray for it daily.

  • http://j3b3.wordpress.com jb

    Ditto on all counts.

  • ds0490

    Brian: “And in any event, what is your solution? Should we make all late-term abortions legal?”

    Well, how about we start with this…increased funding for family planning (non-abortive) services, educational services, and pre- and post-natal healthcare for those women who wish to carry their child to term but lack the resources for such basic care.

    You say you value human life. Do you value it enough to at least push for some increases in public healthcare expenditures (i.e. government spending)? Oh, and if you wish to put restrictions on it, I’m willing to support that. Up to and including a full ban on abortions nationwide.

    Now…under those conditions, how much additional tax money are you willing to pay to help those unborn children you say you value?

  • Ellen

    It isn’t often that I burst into sobs, but I did upon reading this story. Those poor children…..

    Moloch is alive and well.

  • http://j3b3.wordpress.com jb


    Come come, now . . . a 5 minute tour of Google would answer most of your “concern”—there are almost as many families wanting to adopt as there are abortions. And if, after that, we directed the blood/tax money paid to the various organizations in the billion+ dollar business that is abortion, to provide for the few not adopted, the issue would be resolved immediately.

    Your argument is as old as the hills and long ago answered. But abortion is, as one wit put it, the “sacrament” of feminists and left-wingers, and were they to lose that battle . . .

  • Sal

    Life imprisonment works- until it doesn’t
    See the “Texas 7″:
    (sorry it’s wiki, but the facts on the escape and police murder are accurate.)
    So, while a faithful Catholic, I find the “life imprisonment” argument not so convincing.

    But, yes, I’d be willing to make that trade, too. But not homosexual marriage…

  • ds0490

    So jb, what you are saying is that you will not pay one red cent more in taxes to implement any improvements in healthcare for impoverished women, even if there is a constitutional amendment enacted to outlaw abortion.

    Money over life?

  • http://j3b3.wordpress.com jb

    ds . . .

    Look Dude, or Dude-ress . . .

    Did you even read what I said?

    Lemme try this again . . . ok? Roll with me here . . .

    Quote: And if, after that, we directed the blood/tax money paid to the various organizations in the billion+ dollar business that is abortion, to provide for the few not adopted, the issue would be resolved immediately.

    Translation: We don’t need extra taxes. One, what we pay the baby killers in taxes is enough to cover the spread, and I guarantee you that if the pro-deathers of the left wing supporting their sacrament of abortion would simply shut up and watch the show, pro-lifers would end abortion and pay the bills. We really don’t need moralizing from those supporting death unless overwhelmed. Tell SCOTUS to overturn Roe V. Wade, which they and every jurist in the land worth his salt knows is horrible law, and we will take care of the babies y’all think are better off dead.

    Can I ask you a question? Why are babies better off dead according to the left? In my 58 years I have never once gotten a clear answer from a pro-deather, except to say they speak for women’s rights or some sort of silly nonsense. Telling a woman to kill the most precious product of her being, that which she, by God or by Darwin was designed to produce, seems the heighth of irrationality.

    Of course, for you, its just the taxes. We who are in favor of life will take care of the living. After all, we always have.

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  • http://sailorette.blogspot.com Foxfier

    More funding for “family planning,” like that spent on pregnancy prevention in NYC?

    Doesn’t work.

    Same way telling teenagers “Hey, sex sex sex sex sex sex sex!– oooh, but don’t do this, unless you take these steps, and even then you have a 1 in 50 chance of getting pregnant” isn’t very effective. (Seriously. Trusting in the responsibility, good sense and planning of teenagers. Really?)

    The “contracept, sex ed, more government help” system hasn’t worked, it’s made things worse.

    Some of us are already donating time and money to private pregnancy help centers– those same crisis pregnancy centers that so much of the pro-abortion folks’ time and money goes to trying to destroy. We support the Sisters of Life and those like them. We help those with children who need help, we just don’t send it through the resource-sucking maw of government.

    Seriously. The solution you’re offering resulted in this, putting what abortion is about out in the open. And the solution? More of the same.

  • ds0490

    jb…perhaps you should go back and read what I wrote.

    “Oh, and if you wish to put restrictions on it, I’m willing to support that. Up to and including a full ban on abortions nationwide.”

    I’m with you on repealing Roe and all other abortion decisions. I’m with you on outlawing abortion completely. I’m OK with conceding that under our hypothetical scenario. Abortion would be against the law. Period.

    As for tax funding of abortion, Planned Parenthood receives as much tax money annually as it takes to build a B-1 bomber, around $320 million. That, I assume, is part of the money you would consider as being available to move into things like community health services to support women who will still become pregnant but now cannot get an abortion.

    Are you suggesting that this would be enough to cover the increases in education, contraception availability, pre-natal and post-natal care that an additional 4,000 children being born each day would generate? (I assume that you are still using the 4,000 abortions a day number). Some quick math puts the number of additional births (assuming each child makes it to term and there are no miscarriages) at around 1.2 million annually.

    Your additional money from defunding Planned Parenthood would provide about $350 per child for pre- and post-natal care. Where would the extra money come from?

    You offer the following: “We who are in favor of life will take care of the living. After all, we always have.”

    Well, honestly, you are not. The Catholic Church is facing various dioceses going bankrupt due to “the crisis.” They are cutting back in some cases on various medical services at the hospitals they support because of this. State governments, such as here in Iowa, are cutting back on support of community health centers and family planning services.

    And the church as a whole is not stepping up to fill the gap.

    So…once again I ask you jb, are you willing to commit to additional tax revenue to support these health services if the other side is willing to commit to repealing Roe via constitutional amendment?

    Do you value life more than money?

  • ds0490

    Foxfier, abstinence-only education does not work any better. STD rates and pregnancy rates among self-professed Christian youth who say they have taken chastity pledges is on the increase.


    Yet we continue to cut programs that have been shown to work, all for the sake of giving tax cuts to people.


    What this is starting to sound like here is pretty much what I encountered when I was active back in the 90s in the pro-life movement. People are very ready to mobilize to change laws and elect candidates, but when it comes to funding meaningful alternatives to the programs they want to cut, their pocketbooks close.

    Foxfier, you say you and a lot of other folks are already working with groups. Well, it’s not enough if there is still demand for abortion services due to economic factors of lack of healthcare.