I want you to report your neighbors…

… I have often said the only “sin” modern society recognizes is the one of offense. All other sin is morally relative. By the gods, do not offend anyone! To do so makes you a homophobic, racist, bigoted piece of excrement that should just kill themselves [Warning: graphic language]. Geesh, and I remember when liberals where peace humping hippies. Maybe if B.O. legalizes marijuana liberals can finally stop harshing my mellow. So yeah, don’t insult the gays.

QUEBEC, June 18, 2012 (LifeSiteNews.com) – In what they are touting as a “world first,” a Quebec homosexual activist group has launched a “registry of homophobic acts” with support and funding from the Quebec Government’s Justice Department. Standing alongside Montreal Police Chief Johanne Paquin and Commander Alain Gagnon, the leadership of the group Gai Ecoute launched the anonymous tipster registry at a press conference today.

Included in the definition of actions classified as “homophobic” and deemed worthy of reporting to the registry are: “any negative word or act toward a homosexual or homosexuality in general: physical abuse, verbal abuse, intimidation, harassment, offensive graffiti, abuse, injurious mockery, inappropriate media coverage and discrimination.”

About Katrina Fernandez

Mackerel Snapping Papist

  • Hibernia86

    If you think we should be less judgemental of homophobic comments, do you think we should be less judgemental of sexist comments or comments that are racist against hispanics, for example? If you are going to allow a pass for bigotry, you can’t give it only to certain targets.

    • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

      Perhaps I should have been more clear. Unlike liberals, I believe in free speech and not in tattle telling to the gov’t when someone’s differing views offend me.

      • Hibernia86

        Most Liberals would not support that government program in Quebec. The ACLU has defended the free speech of people that it hates, such as Rush Limbaugh and the KKK.

        • http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thecrescat Katrina Fernandez

          I am positive the homosexual agenda driven left in the US would consider this a good thing and wonder when we will follow suit.  

          • kenneth

            For all the hysteria about “PC police”, no once can produce an actual case of people going to jail or even facing real prosecution for “speech crimes.” Even in Ireland, which has a law that on its face allows prosecution of “hurtful” speech, it’s never been pursued against anyone who did not employ it as part of some other actual crime. Nor is this Quebec database proposing to do anything more sinister than compile statistics. We’ve been tracking hate crimes at a federal level with the FBI since 1990. This Quebec thing is not sending anyone out to arrest unpopular columnists, or anyone, for that matter. It’s $60,000 to cover at least two years, at which point they’re supposed to compile a report to the government, which will be talked about by some committee and then put on a high shelf, as all government studies are. 

          • sacredcrocheter

            Sorry Kenneth, you’re living in a bubble.  Just because no one does jail time isn’t the point.  It’s a struggle for the hearts and minds of the public and when fear keeps you from voicing an opinion, guess who wins. I also remember reading a story a couple years ago about an elderly woman (I think in the UK) who wrote a polite letter voicing a mild complaint about a homosexual parade or gathering. I believe charges were brought against her by “gays” for Hate speech and she had to  make a written or public apology. There may also have been a fine involved-wish I could be more specific.  I’m sure there are other instances of this but the point is to silence us all and it’s working quite well. The only thing worse than saying homosexuality is a sin is smoke cigarettes in public.

          • Hibernia86

            “when fear keeps you from voicing an opinion, guess who wins”

            Glad that you recognize that. Hopefully you will be more sympathetic to Atheists who face the same social threats against them in the vast majority of American communities.

          • kenneth

            I wish you could be more specific too. There’s this cultural meme among conservative Christians these days which says that state persecution for anti-gay beliefs is an everyday thing, yet the specifics of any actual incident are just out of reach. It’s like the urban legends. “I know a guy who met a guy who swears it’s true.”

            Another curious thing is that for all of this alleged silencing going on by or on behalf of the gays, there’s an awful lot of speech about them that’s somehow making it past the censors.

             There literally isn’t a day that goes by that some Patheos blogger isn’t attacking “the gay lifestyle” in some fashion or another. For a very long time, it was Mark Shea’s policy to refer to gay activist as “brownshirts” – a polite boardroom way of calling them Nazis. It was virtually all the bishops spoke about until the HHS thing distracted them. If there’s a regime in place to silence your views on gays, its working about as well as Japan’s old tsunami walls…

          • sacredcrocheter

            You are right Kenneth, I should have been more specific but the fact that these stories stay in your head is what I’m talking about. The backlash we see against people who  loose their jobs for voicing the “wrong” opinions about homosexuality combined with threats of legal action create a feeling that it’s not safe to discuss your feelings about homosexuality if you believe it’s wrong. Look at the media if you don’t believe there is a powerful homosexual agenda driven by fear.
            When’s the last time in recent history that you saw a homosexual on a TV show or in a movie where the homosexual was depicted as a bad person? They are almost always portrayed as very attractive, warm, sympathetic characters as opposed to Christians who are often portrayed as crazy, dangerous hateful extremists. Why do you think an industry that’s profit driven, petrified of  litigation and “bad press”  is unwilling to depict a gay in an unflattering manner but not a Christian?   
            The main target of the media is on children. They are taught at school and then the message is underscored in the media that homosexuals are cool and that any criticism would amount to persecution and hate.
            Also, I would not use this blog as an example of the freedom we feel to express alternate views on homosexuality. Comments are anonomous. I think most people would be afraid to express these views in the media where their name would be published.

          • kenneth

            There’s just no evidence at all for a systematic, or even significant, legal backlash against people for expressing contrary views about homosexuality. It’s a story that everyone in the conservative community believes because it’s repeated around the fire each night, but no one can seem to ever trace the stories back to their source and connect the dots with evidence. When pressed, it’s always some fourthand reference (you know, that thing in Candada, UK (fill in the blank), the other year.) The very few cases that I’ve seen detailed as “persecution” against Christians never quite bears up under examination. It turns out the people supposedly punished for having anti-gay beliefs were doing something unprofessional as therapists, or violating the law by refusing service to someone who was gay. 

            It is true that many people might feel “unsafe” expressing views because those beliefs are now unpopular. That’s not persecution, that’s the marketplace of ideas doing what it’s supposed to do. All the Constitution does is ensure that you’re able to set up your “stall” of ideas in the marketplace without government censorship. It creates no guarantees that anyone will buy what you’re selling. 

             And if someone won’t put their name behind their deeply held beliefs, especially ones which arise from their core religious convictions, then those ideas don’t warrant much consideration from the rest of us.  If universal popularity is your goal, you want to go into politics or porn, not Christianity, or for that matter any other system with core convictions of any sort. 

            I won’t comment on what you said about pop culture depictions because I don’t keep up on it well enough to say much. Movie and TV presents one-dimensional portrayals of almost every subject it touches, and people who take their wares at face value are beyond any help I can offer. 

          • Oregon Catholic

            You really are in denial. At will employers don’t need a reason to fire anyone. And they can easily do so for all kinds of illegal reasons too as long as they are careful it can’t be proven. That’s why we all hear about these cases but they don’t end up in any database. There is nothing to litigate or report.

          • kenneth

            People who keep things professional at work rarely, if ever, have these sorts of issues. 

            In my last full time gig of 12 years, no one knew my political leanings or details of my private life. Very few had any inkling about my religion. I maintained that level of discretion even though I had a union contract that gave me job security almost as good as university tenure.These days, people have no boundaries at all and post every detail of their lives and every random thought on Twitter or Facebook or some other nonsense, giving their workplace enemies crates of ammo to use against them. There’s simply no good reason for people in almost any profession to be talking about religion or sexuality or politics or anything during the workday. At any rate, conservatives who don’t like the dodginess of “at will” employment should talk to their own kind about that. They’re the ones who have rendered union protections extinct in this country, calling it “socialism.” 

          • Hibernia86

            First of all, calling it “the homosexual agenda” is like calling the civil rights movement of the 1960s “the black agenda”. It isn’t about a specific group, but rather about equality.

            Secondly, I think you are being overly bias about their group. If you go on the websites of mainstream gay rights groups like the Human Rights Campaign, you will see that they only support legal action in cases of harassment, not in cases of free speech. You can’t just take one fringe case and try to demonize the entire group with it.

        • sacredcrocheter

          I think you should check the ACLU’s agenda more thoroughly. I wouldn’t use them as an example for defenders of Free Speech.

          • Hibernia86

            Well, the ACLU believes (correctly) that the US constitution supports freedom of religion and seeks to make sure that every religion is treated equally under the law. Some religious conservatives, wanting the government to give special privileges to them, are angry at the ACLU for making them play by the same rules as everyone else.

          • sacredcrocheter

            Hi Hibernia86-I used to be a member of the ACLU until I discovered that their goals were not quite what I was led to believe. The founder of the ACLU, Roger Baldwin states “I am for socialism, disarmament, and ultimately for abolishing the State itself as an instrument of violence and compulsion. I seek the sole ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class and sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal.”
            I read the ACLU’s (1988)  policy guide. Just a few of it’s extreme neoliberal policy goals were: #4-Legalization of all pornography including “kiddie porn”.
            #92 The ACLU urges an end to all church tax exemptions as a “clear and flagrant breech of the 1st amendment”.
            #210-Legalization of all narcotics, including rock cocaine and PCP.
            #263-The ACLU supports all abortion up and until the day of birth. Opposes parent notification for minors and states abortions should be paid for by taxpayers.
            Other policies state that parents should have no say so in their childrens’ education, that all sexual activity including bestiality and necrophilia be legalized and that all prostitution including child prostitution be legalized.
            I would ask you to read their policies for yourself before believing what’s put out there for general consumption.

          • Oregon Catholic

            If their name had anything to do with their goals they would have been first in line to defend the Church against the HHS mandate,

          • sacredcrocheter

            They were probably too busy defending Nazi’s.

  • Calah Alexander

    That’s very reverse-Hitler’s-Youth of them. Like a glove turned inside-out, actually. Creepy. 

  • Kimlcarroll

    kenneth,
    is there something in place for anti-christian speech as well?  … I think that’s even more sorely needed.  I’m sure it would not be hard to supply the database with lots of pertinent tracking info. to put on a high shelf.  Where can we send it?

    • Hibernia86

      Disagreeing with Christianity is not the same thing as being anti-Christian hate speech. This kind of reminds me of the Mormons who treat any book which disagrees with them as “anti-Mormon” and refuse to read it because the Mormons “know” that they are right.

      • Oregon Catholic

        Hibernia86,
        What is hate speech vs disagreement is an important topic and hard to define. Is it hate speech or disagreement to say the gay lifestyle is sinful? Is it hate speech or disagreement to say Christians are bigots and believe in a sky-daddy? Is anything that offends hate speech?

        And where does it stop? A person who mocks God by referring to Him as sky-daddy could just as easily be intimidated into silence as a gay basher if he happens to work for a Christian boss who might fire him for it. Should Christians keep databases too or hunt down and identify people who make offensive comments and post them on the internet for all to see – like the example I posted here in another comment?

    • kenneth

      The FBI does in fact keep track of anti-Christian hate crimes. Their data comes from state and local agencies, and in the last complete report from 2009, Catholic and Protestant victims together accounted for about 6.5% of the victims of anti-religious hate crime, some 1,500-odd cases. Jews by far topped that list.

      The speech vs crime distinction is important in the Canadian story as well. The government has a legitimate interest for sure in tracking actual crimes against any category of victims. Why then keep track of non-criminal “unkind speech”? Arguably its a good idea for policy makers to know what the real atmosphere is out there for gays and lesbians. Is it as bad as the full-time gay activist insist? Is it all made up by oversensitive PC enforcers, as their opponents say? Probably somewhere well in the middle, but where? Quite honestly I don’t think gays in Quebec are going to spend lots of time and effort informing on newspaper columnists who rub them the wrong way.  If the whole thing were really about tracking down “counter-revolutionary” thinking against gays, there are far more efficient ways to do it than some hotline phone center. 

  • Oregon Catholic

    This is just more of an ongoing effort to silence people through public intimidation and embarrassment. Here is a good example on another Patheos blog.
    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/06/19/how-did-mike-discover-the-aint-no-homos-gonna-make-it-to-heaven-church/

    Granted, we hide behind our anonymity far too much, myself included.  I admit I’ve said many things in blogs I’d be embarrassed to have revealed. But this is intimidation gone too far and could lead to unstable people taking ‘justice’ into their own hands. The fact that it is gov supported will only serve to make the unstable think their actions are legitimate.

  • Oregon Catholic

    Kenneth, I really don’t think you understand the subleties in the modern workplace at all, probably because you have a union contract and because you are so gosh darned determined not to let anything change your mind.

    There are many workplaces that are toxic and people are forced to endure all kinds of PC things that offend them. You don’t have to say a word about your religion or politics to find yourself an outsider. It can be as subtle as not showing the proper amount of enthusiasm for a manager’s gay lifestyle that he or she talks about endlessly. Or in my case not wearing a rainbow ribbon and joining in the company supported “gay day” celebrations. It only takes something as subtle as that for the right manager to see you as someone to be eliminated and start you down a path of being targeted. You really are clueless about what goes on these days in some companies.

    As far as not working for at will companies that is a total cop out to imply that people in this day have that kind of choice.

    • kenneth

      We could press for re-unionization of this country, or even just for some simple but comprehensive anti-discrimination laws. We won’t, because conservatives take an adoring and deferential position to corporate interests.  We’ve finally achieved the corporatist dream of reducing human beings to disposable and interchangeable goods in the workplace. Firing for any reason or no reason at all, or political reasons is all part and parcel of that. Them’s the breaks. You’re wearing the same target on your foreheads that gays have worn, well, for centuries up until about a decade ago. And that’s only true in large “progressive” corporations. There are still plenty of small businesses out there run by evangelicals or Catholics where even a suspected gay employee wouldn’t stand a snowball’s chance. 

       The question comes down to whether you’re upset about the arbitrary and unfair nature of at will employment or if you’re just upset the sword happens to be hanging above your desk these days.  Would you support enforceable workplace laws that clearly protected both religion and sexual identity, or just something that put your own stripe of Christian beliefs off limits to employers?

      • sacredcrocheter

        “Workplace laws” are a joke Kenneth. I don’t suppose you ever experienced what happens to a woman after she files a sexual harrassment claim against a supervisor. First, she’s ostracized by the other women who trip over each other to defend the supervisor out of fear of what might happen to them if they told the truth. Then, slowly over time, they find suble little ways to try to destroy her formerly excellent work record. Usually, she is so stressed out, she leaves and everybody but everybody gets the message load and clear not to file sexual harrassment claims. 
        Whistleblower laws-even worse-they chip away at the whistle blower’s credibility and finally, over time the whistleblower is forced out. Not for reporting a legitimate illegal activity-they know that would be too obvious and illegal in itself. They find a myriad of ways to make your life a living hell each and every day until you cannot take it anymore. And once again, the other government employees watch and learn that it’s not safe to blow the whistle. I’m speaking from experience and you can say that it wouldn’t happen to you but I worked for the govt. for many years with a solid record of excellent job ratings until I blew the whistle on bid rigging. After that, everything changed and my life became a nightmare.

    • sacredcrocheter

      Dear Oregon Catholic, I’ve followed your comments on this topic and I just wanted to compliment your writing abilities. You made excellent points in an eloqent manner without  rudeness or personal attacks. Your description of the “toxic” workplace is so on target that for a minute I thought we might have worked at the same place!

      You are obviously a gifted person and an example to all Catholics. I hope a day never comes when you will be too afraid to speak out. God Bless you.

      • sacredcrocheter

        Oregon Catholic-as for Kenneth, I feel sorry for anyone who has spent his working years so cut off from life - I think he just needs a place to voice his very rigid opinions. He’s obviously not interested in learning anything. I hope he can find peace.


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