Millennials Flee The Church Because Of Lies And Sexual Discrimination

Millennials Flee The Church Because Of Lies And Sexual Discrimination July 6, 2018

Of course educated young adults, having grown up in a multicultural and gender-fluid world, are leaving the church: they see it as a hateful and ignorant place, a place of lies and sexual discrimination. I don’t blame them.


Sexual discrimination leads many millennials to leave the church forever.
Millennials flee the church and are not coming back.

What is the single largest religious group in America? The non-religious. Data coming from PPRI (Public Religion Research Institute), a respected non-partisan research organization, tracks the rise of the non-religious from 6% in 1991 to 25% in 2016.

It gets worse. Among younger adults (18-29), 39% describe themselves as religiously unaffiliated. For us older folk, it’s just 13%.

Many who claim no affiliation now grew up with some religious identity. They just left. Few who grew up without any religious education or background have come in.

In other words, for religious groups, there is only one door: the exit.

There are no real exceptions to this decline. Catholics went from 31% to 21%; white evangelical Protestants dropped 1-2%, and the white mainline Protestants went down 5%. Non-white Protestants and other religious groups (Mormons, Jews, Muslim, etc.) show stable numbers but no growth.

Although many claim that the current mixing of politics with religion has been the primary reason for the exodus, research indicates two other factors carry more weight. One, this generation just stopped believing in what the church had taught them. Two, they refuse to participate in the generally poor way that most religious groups treat gay and lesbian people.

I have often expressed concern about the way we teach the Bible to children. In many traditions, including mine, we hand our tweens a Bible after minimal instruction about how to correctly read such a complicated book. Then we say, “Have at it.”

Most either never open it again or open it and close it quickly.

As younger children, we have fed them a bundle of sanitized stories:

  • cute little animals marching in neat order onto a boat, without mentioning that a vengeful God was preparing to slaughter all other humans and animals;
  • walking through parted waters without mentioning that all the Egyptian soldiers drowned;
  • marching around Jericho, without mentioning that all the inhabitants were crushed under massive, crumbling stone walls;
  • conquering Canaan without mentioning that most of the Canaanite men were slaughtered and their wives turned into unwilling sex slaves for the conquering Israelites;
  • the birth of the sweet little baby Jesus without mentioning that this birth led to the later slaughter of all the children under three in Bethlehem.
  • and, of course, that God created the entire universe in six 24-hour days without hearing that Genesis One was written as rhythmic poetry, not as scientific treatise.

The Bible is not a book for children. It’s not all that nice a book for adults. Parts of it should most certainly carry an “R” rating with a giant “V” for violence. It most certainly is not a science textbook.

It was both a wonderful and a terrible thing when the Bible, thanks to early and dogged translators and the invention the printing press, emerged from the hands of the religiously elite to the hands of everyone.

BUT . . . the idea of “Sola Scriptura,” the Bible alone was enough to bring about salvation, is the worst idea ever. It’s just not true.

Traditional Rabbinic Judaism taught that Moses, along with receiving the written law (the first five books of the Bible), also received a large body of oral law, known as the Mishnah. The purpose of the oral tradition was to explain and expound upon the written tradition, early scholars acutely aware that the written tradition itself was inadequate and prone to misunderstanding. The Mishnah was not written down until around the third century of our era.

Martin Luther, author of the idea of “Sola Scriptura,” carried such vehement hatred toward anything Jewish that, even if he knew of the Mishnah, would never have respected it.

And so here we are, with uneducated, isolated individuals reading the Bible in always problematic translations, scarily sure it was written with 21st century Americans in mind, and proclaiming confidently, “This is the Word of the Lord” while essentially wreaking violence on the sacred, hard-to-understand and easily misinterpreted texts.

Now we have a generation of educated young adults growing up multicultural worlds with comfortable gender fluidity. Of course, they are leaving the church. They see it as a nasty and ignorant place, a place of lies and sexual discrimination. I don’t blame them.

But these young adults also hold the future of the world in their hands. What can we pass onto them?

Will we insist on these hateful and exclusive interpretations of the Bible and see the church inevitably crumble as a result? Or, perhaps more hopefully, will we abandon our hubris and do the actual work of being the hands and feet of Jesus, offering hope to the hopeless, food to the hungry, clothing to the naked, freedom to the oppressed and the deep connection with each other that all humans need?

It is my sincere hope that we will make the second choice, recognizing that the church cannot ever be married to political power to succeed in its mission.


Photo credit: hernanpba on Visual Hunt / CC BY-SA modified by Christy Thomas


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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • Reese

    Like, why not a “God Ap” for millennials smarty-pants phone? Like, get hooked up without personal contact!
    My offering here does not refer to the majority of millennials who are assimilating into and adding to our growing economy. Nor does it cover those who bravely protect us by service in the military, or as police and other first responders. To them, my salute and thanks!
    .
    However, reports say over 40% of Millennials still live with mommy and daddy, are “phubbing” through life (texting while talking) and I am “Hundo P” (100% sure) that they even take “JOMO” (Joy of Missing Out) attending church. So, I suggest “GodAp” for both Android and Apple to reach them. Just hook up with an unknown and unseen “God Person” to text with. Personal contacts and inter-actions are unwelcome in these lives, so the distance might be the way to reach them. Also…
    .
    • Stream sermons to smart-phones. Lay the words between some rock and rap music.
    • Sample sermon (it is short, has to be!): “Like, Jesus really loves you, and like, he just thinks love is where it’s at. Like, do what you do, or whatever, but, like, remember to love everybody in every way you can. The UMC loves everybody, like, all the time and whatever. UMC, like welcomes all people of all religions, whatever, and if you just get together and, like, feel love, then you are us and we are you – hey, that’s, like intense, right? Anyway, vegans or pagans, or like any letter of the alphabet you use to represent you. Whatever. So, come hang with us, we are open doors and really open minds all day on Sundays, but we don’t do specific times.”
    • Don’t ask for financial support as that would make many millennials uncomfortable. Making money is not important so they don’t have any. They majored in art, anthropology, sociology and similar, so the few who work don’t always get to be waiters in the nice places where people give tips.
    • Big point: “Sunday school” is, like, tuition free – with no books and like no tests! Cool!
    • Don’t ask for volunteer efforts, except maybe to show up for a global warming conference or a occupy Wall Street thing, whatever. About half of Millennials have tight schedules: Up by noon, lunch, email, texting, talking on phone through the afternoon, eat something, whatever, but not meat, change tee-shirt, then head out for some “music”. It does not leave much time…
    I saw a post about millennials that really summed it up: There was a picture of a millennial who was claiming, “We are going to start a revolution!” And the aging boomer responded, “Your generation couldn’t start a lawnmower.”i

    Agreed, the Bible has some tough stories and life has been so good for these little snowflakes that they cannot deal with reality. At places of “higher” education, the educators are setting up safe spaces and puppies to help pathetically weak little snowflakes deal with news that upsets them. Millennials are not to blame for being so weak, useless and without need for religion; liberal logic which scorns strength and celebrates weakness is to blame…

  • Reese

    Maybe about half of the millennials just can’t get out of bed at mommy’s house? Almost half of them are not showing up for work, either. Don’t blame “the church” on their absence…

    • bobcat99

      Reese, that is just not true. More adult millenials live at home longer because they work in jobs that don’t pay them enough to afford rent or a home. That is true even for some with a college education. They are working but their check doesn’t go that far. The world has always had some coddled kids, but there are no more today than before. Try hearing the message of this blog rather than reacting defensively.

      • Reese

        I stay on OFFENSE against liberalism, socialism, stupidism and anyone who criticizes our great, world’s best, American system. And, its getting better every day!

        • P. McCoy

          Just wait until the United States has Nuremberg style trials for Fascistic traitors like YOU!

        • DDRLSGC

          No Reese, it is getting worse everyday.

          • Reese

            The numbers I read say its getting better: unemployment DOWN, black and hispanic unemployment and female unemployment is down, at or near record levels. Corporate profits up, wages and bonuses up, stock market is UP. No idea where you live, but I suggest you move! We’re sure hiring in Texas!

          • DDRLSGC

            No Reese, only bonuses and wages for CEOs have gone up, not the American worker. Where you get your numbers from? Fox News?

          • smrnda

            Texas has the highest maternal mortality in the USA. It also leads the nation in repeat teen pregnancies. Sorry, I think I’ll avoid it like the plague.

            You also realize that unemployment statistics are misleading. The labor force participation rate among men in their prime working years is actually down. They don’t count as ‘unemployed’ because they are no longer eligible for unemployment and have given up on actually looking for work.

            A link in case you want to read more :

            https://econofact.org/where-have-all-the-male-workers-gone

          • Judgeforyourself37

            Corporations are doing very well, Reese, but the salaries of the employees has been stagnant for over five years.

        • Mr. James Parson

          I hope that the current trade war doesn’t hurt you.

          • Reese

            No, because we will win.

          • DDRLSGC

            No, we will lose because we lost our manufacturing base and reduce our tariff barriers compare to other countries that protect their manufacturing base and did not reduce their tariff barriers.

        • smrnda

          great, world’s best, American system. And, its getting better every day!

          Infant mortality in some parts of the USA are higher than that in actual third world countries. Life expectancies have fallen for many regions and demographics. The USA also has the highest violent crime rate among first world nations. USA! USA!

    • SDLKJ

      The millennials I know live on their own; they’re also working 2 and 3 jobs as well. They’re put off by the total hypocrisy and bigotry and ignorance shown by so-called “leaders” that “talk the talk” but can’t even “walk the walk”. Just look at the bigoted hypocritical morons supporting trump – a narcissist pathological bigoted habitual liar who is backed by so-called religious “leaders.”
      I don’t blame them for saying “no thank you.” and telling the main stream religions to shove it. They also understand that there is a vast difference between spirituality and religion. So do I. That’s why I left the church years ago – for the same reasons stated above. It doesn’t mean I don’t believe in God. It does mean, however, that I don’t have to put up with the ignorance and hatred and hypocrisy preached and practiced in the pulpits and pews by those who have the unmitigated gall to call themselves “Christians”

    • Reyn

      Peer reviewed evidence of what you just said please – because I do not see it in real life.

    • Nikky

      You do understand that millennial are “adults under 40”, yes? Because you have to realize how ridiculous that sounds. I know zero friends living rent free with mommy and daddy. I’m 30 and haven’t lived at home since I was 19, I’m a millennial. I wake up every Sunday at 8:30 so my son can go to Sunday school with his grandma, but I don’t go myself because I am angry and resentful at the way some people have twisted G-d for themselves, and I don’t feel the need to look for him in a church anymore. I don’t expect to find him there.

    • DDRLSGC

      Reese, you are really far behind the times when it comes to how America has change in the last 38 years when our top business leaders decided not to pay taxes, send jobs overseas, bust up unions, import illegal and legal workers to replace American workers, suppress wages, and yet, demand that they have access to government services.

      Many millennials are dropping out of church because they discover that going to church, saying your prayers, eating fish on Friday, etc., doesn’t pay the bills, doesn’t put food on the table, doesn’t put clothes on your back, doesn’t help you out when you need medical/dental help, etc. They are also realizing how capitalism screw their parents and grandparents for the last 38 years and screwing them as well. They are no longer going to put up with wealth/business people who praise the Lord on Sunday, but screw their neighbors in the back come Monday.

      You want to talk about people showing up for work. What about our congressional leaders who do far less work than the rest of us, have less work days than us, and get to have more time off than the rest of us while making nearly $150,000 dollars per years not to mention, they become millionaires by the time they leave office?

      • Ivan T. Errible

        Most people, especially the young, don’t go to church for one reason: it’s boring. Really, really boring.

        • DDRLSGC

          Well, I agreed that it is boring.

        • Mr. James Parson

          I went to Catholic Church when I was you. You need a stronger word than to describe it.

    • Reese

      Excuse me. Truth is so easy to find via google: I found this below among many:
      …..
      “Millennials Living With Parents at Record Rates | Time
      time.com/4108515/millennials-live-at-home-parents
      And for today’s millennials, it means that more than a third of young women and almost half of young men will have to say a sad goodbye to that dream of the Rachel-and-Monica-loft from Friends. The Pew Research Center data shows that about 36% of women and 48% of men…”
      ……..
      Back to me: We can debate exact %s and we can debate that a college education with absolutely useless degrees like anthropology, sociology, psychology, philosophy, art and music are not areas that lead to mucho dinero for most. Degrees in math, science, business are better bets for earning enough to move out. P.S. Capitalism is the best! Socialism has failed everywhere. I never made it near the top of any company I worked for, but if you look at the picture, my retirement includes a pool and a motor-home. I love CAPITALISM!

      • Reese

        By the way, in the picture is my bar-b-q pit, my hammock and my pool. I call these my “Axis-of-HeVille”. Livin’ large thanks to Capitalism!

        • Truly the measure of a man is not his compassion, nor his intellect, but how much stuff he owns s.

          • Reese

            We who own more often share more. We who make more, thanks to our USA system, have more to share. Believe it or not, we are known to charities and our Christian conscience is very clear. We also love life in every way we can.

          • P. McCoy

            Yeah I get how “Christian Charity” works- spend 40 to 60 minutes being pummeled to ‘accept Jesus’ while you’re hungry ! That’s not biblical.
            That bit about “Women having different babies by different men ” is a dog whistle for anti Black racism; would you rather those Women had abortions?
            Bet you’re anti choice if so respect their pro life actions OR do you just want ARYAN babies?

          • Reese

            There is no, and should be no, “free” lunch or dinner. Work for it, or listen to a sermon for it, but nobody should expect the rest of us to work hard, save well, give generously to charity, but allow those who do nothing to just show up, eat and leave. With not even a tip.

          • P. McCoy

            Sorry to disappoint, but the Bible says the reverse; people are seeing right through you Christofascists – you’re top dog now, but hey the Nazis thought the very same thing, maybe you can join them in Russia or Antarctica.

          • Marketing folks like yourself make profit off other people’s hard work, not your own.

          • DDRLSGC

            Wrong Reese, companies like Walmart demand and get a free lunch and dinner where they get all the profits while the public subsidies their losses and have to take care of their workers.

            “…..but allow those who do nothing to just show up, eat and leave. With not even a tip.”

            You need to apply that statement to the Republican politicians in Congress who get a big paycheck, work very little, have very few work days, and get plenty of time off compare to the rest of us.

          • Reese

            Ah, we can agree that congress is over-paid and under-worked. Wonder why Obummer and his Dem House and Senate didn’t correct that when they had all the power? Hmmmmmmmm?

          • DDRLSGC

            First of all Reese, Obama did not have a good solid majority in Congress. Some of the Democrats switch to the Republican Party, others became blue dog Democrats, and the Republicans change the filibuster rules so anything that Obama had send to them would not get out of the House of Representative. In addition, there were some election congressional races that were so close that the Republicans sue in court to contest the election results which prevent the Democrat winners from taking office.

          • smrnda

            If your charity comes with strings attached, it’s not really charity.

          • How much did your pool cost?
            Did your christian conscience happen to determine how many mouths that money could help to feed before you decided that it was better to spend it on a status symbol than simply using the public pool?

            Quoth Jesus (Matthew 19:23): “Truly I tell you, it is difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again, I tell you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

          • Reese

            I have paid PLENTY through taxes, charity and special gifts at special times. Isn’t it rather socialist to imply that I should give until I have nothing special after all the years of hard work because others are not living as well? If so, then where will be the motivation for people like me to get up earlier, run harder, travel farther, produce more, in order to live better? Do you think people work extra hard just for fun? As is seen under socialism, if we are all promised the same, then we will produce at the same or lower level. That’s why it fails. Next week, we will cover “why are there so many hungry?”

          • “I have paid PLENTY through taxes, charity and special gifts at special times.”
            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7a0f1666a7277ca67268993cf823adc9e8fd4738457217d037b05fa4d13375bf.png

          • Also, take it from me, an engineer and technician, who works to make the infastructure that supports your lifestyle: marketing and political types are parasites who take credit and profit from our work.

          • Reese

            Good. We end this banter with laughter…

            Does “engineer and technician” mean that you decide how to put the toppings on the pizza (engineering) and then put it in the oven (technician)? lol

          • No, it means I figure out technical details of electronic design and programming that makes products work, but if you were comparing me to a pizza chef- they produce delicious food that makes people happy.

            Marketing… doesn’t produce anything that makes people happy. It’s the reason why our public internet and television is so saturated with advertisements that do nothing but steal our attention and psychologically manipulate us.
            It’s vampiric, actually.

          • Reese

            It is entertaining, informative and covered by the First Amendment…

          • it takes a very sad man to consider the bulk of advertising as “entertaining” and “informative”.

          • but alas, it is unsurprising that you need to try and fool yourself into believing in your own utility…

          • DDRLSGC

            Not to mention, many of our CEOs don’t have the technical credentials and work experience in running STEM companies. All they have is business degrees, accounting degrees and as you stated, they know how to play office politics in order to climb to the top of the ladder.

          • honestly I prefer companies run by people who actually understand the intricacies of what their staff deal with rather than running off of blind heureustics.

          • DDRLSGC

            I agreed; however, American companies particularly manufacturing firms do not promote people from the rank and file, blue collar workers into the white collar, management ranks let along have the workers sit at the board meetings to solve the problems.

          • DDRLSGC

            Yeah, Reese, and the American worker has been busting his/her butt off for the last 38 years, and you don’t see his/her wages going through the roof compare to the CEOs wages; yet, we do have more people in poverty and going hungry.

          • Reese

            Excuse me. Food stamp demands have been going down. Employment is at record levels.

          • DDRLSGC

            Wrong, but employment will be going down and food stamps will be going up due to the fact that American companies will be sending the jobs overseas due to Trump’s tariffs, deregulating economy, and American companies will not be investing their overseas profits and the tax breaks into the economy.

          • smrnda

            I make pretty decent money, but I certainly don’t work as hard as people who make less than me. Being a highly educated, skilled worker is fairly pleasant. My work is interesting, it isn’t dangerous, and I’m not subjected to verbal abuse on the job, nor do I content with irregular hours or abrupt changes in scheduling.

            And how did I get here? My family was better educated than average, which enabled me to attend university at lower cost thanks to scholarships. The less affluent kids never had a chance to compete with someone like myself.

            The other problem is that people like myself are developing technologies that are taking entire jobs out of existence. The displaced workers are in no position to compete for the new, better jobs.

          • DDRLSGC

            No, people who own more do not share more. We gave tax breaks to the CEOs and they have stated that they will only use the money to enrich themselves and have no intention of investing in their companies and giving their workers better wages and have said so publicly. Google it yourself.

        • TS (unami)

          Looks like an old RV parked by someone else’s pool, tbh.

      • Al Cruise

        ” I love CAPITALISM!” That’s great and your honesty is appreciated. But why be on here? This site is for a place for people who love Jesus.

        • otrotierra

          Yep. And shockingly, Jesus declared that serving two masters is not possible. Gotta chose one.

        • gonna need water for that burn….

      • DDRLSGC

        Reese, even if Americans do have STEM and business degrees, American companies will not hired them and if they do hired them, they will not give them good wages let alone permanent, full-time jobs. Capitalism has failed in the USA, Africa, Asia, Central and South America. If Capitalism is so great, then why are half of Americans living near the poverty level? Why do 8 billionaires own nearly half the Earth wealth and half of the Earth’s population is living on anywhere from $2 to $10 per day? That tells me that Capitalism has failed big time.

        “”Anthropology, sociology, psychology, philosophy, art and music are not areas that lead to mucho dinero for most.”

        No wonder why people like you don’t know what is going on in the world let alone know about the past because you don’t believe that these disciplines can teach you anything. Regarding making money off these disciplines, then people in these areas should be allow to form unions for better wages, free/affordable medical care plus getting some kind of minimum guaranteed income so they can stay in their disciplines so they can contribute to society. From what I heard, Norway give their artists some form of monetary subsidy so they can advance their arts and win worldwide awards for their art.

        • Reese

          A UNION of anthropologists, or philosophers, or bad, uninteresting artists? Seriously? You are just too funny! What if society is generally not interested in whatever it is that they offer? Free/affordable medical care and free money for anthropologists? Oh you stop it! My sides hurt!

          • DDRLSGC

            Yes, seriously. In Denmark, 87% of the population belong to a union and I bet you many of them are anthropologists, artists, and philosophers. They have free/affordable for anthropologists in Western and Northern Europe and their side is hurting from laughing at America’s lack of affordable healthcare.

          • Reese

            Denmark is also not called upon to be the guardian and piggy bank of the world. Didn’t the Nazis move in there, maybe without a shot and not much has changed? Or, was that Norway? Whatever. They do not have much of an illegal alien problem, except now for the arabs, because it is too cold, too expensive, too far away from the world’s po’ folks. Yes, they have social programs, but there’s no “chicken in every pot” even though the tourist info implies there’s a blond in every hot tub. You might want to google the ethnic breakdown… P.S. As a former elected county leader, I can tell you, we had affordable healthcare before Obummercare. Laws prevented our hospitals from turning sick poor people away.

          • DDRLSGC

            “Denmark is also not called upon to be the guardian and piggy bank of the world. Didn’t the Nazis move in there, maybe without a shot and not much has changed? ”

            And your point?

            Well, there is no longer a chicken in very pot in the USA for the last 38 years. What does ethnic breakdown have to do with the political,social, and economic problems in the USA? Lots of places in the USA are too cold and too expensive; however, Denmark doesn’t have a huge homeless problem compare to the USA.

            Wrong, Reese, affordable healthcare was not available when President Nixon allow the HMOs to dominate the health care field which has led to the death of 45,000 people each year due to lack of affordable healthcare. Many people even in the red states have stated that they like Obama care and resent their GOP leaders for not wanting to implement it or getting rid of it.

          • DDRLSGC

            Yeah Reese, guardian and piggy bank for Corporate America.

          • Reese

            There were not always corporations… Did anyone ever teach you about where a corporation comes from? When somebody had an idea for a good or service, they would work to form an entity able to deliver those goods or services. n nearly all the cases, those entrepreneurs needed to borrow money to start the ball rolling. The needed CAPITAL, hence they were called “capitalists”. Sometimes, the new ideas were not good enough to excite the market, but when the market (people) bought it, then more CAPITAL was needed to EXPAND (hire more workers, build new plants, expand inventories of both raw materials and market ready stock, AND R&D for new products to meet more needs!). Our country’s system nurtured this system, as opposed to a socialist or simply a closed economic system which tell people, “we will tell you what you need and you will have that and only that.” No debate. No competition. No growth. Our system, very competitive, nurtures invention, expansion, more and better products, and better lives. At the same time, real people are employed to produce the goods and services. There is no better system. Yes, some of the work is demanding, but for many, that ends at the end of a shift. For a mid-level corporate guy, there is plenty of stress and the job does not end at 5. Been there. Done that. Weekends are for research, reflection and often project labor. Divorces are high, substance abuse is not uncommon. I left it. Went back to work in sales where all I had to do was sell products that solve problems… Let me ask you: Have you recently needed a plumber or electrician> IF you found one to come, you paid big, big bucks. Why? Because our stupid education system and supporting politicians have made hands-on labor un-honorable. People who can charge us over $100 an hour to fix demonstrate that our liberal media, educators and politicians should focus on what we can do for each other and earn doing it!

          • DDRLSGC

            Didn’t anyone teach you about the post colonial America era where cities, counties, and states had laws on the books which gave them the right to strip and dissolve a business if it step out of line.

            Didn’t anyone tell you that USA did not nurture a government regulated capitalism system until the Great Depression? It was more a a plutocrat/oligarchy system where the wealthy few were telling the people how much they were going to get pay, what kind of working and living conditions they were going to have and had cut throat competition to crush any upcoming businesses and any labor rights. There was no debate and certainly no free market nor free enterprise system. There is a better system and that is the one in Western and Northern Europe since the end of World War II.

            American wealthy people, business leaders, and politicians have view blue collar jobs as unhonorable and do not put them on the same political, social, and economic level as white collar jobs plus they made those jobs dangerous to work in plus they have been cutting back on vocational programs compare to what they have in Europe.

            Again you are way behind the times, There is no liberal media and it had not been that way for the last 38. It has been almost own by a few corporations and wealthy people.

            Don’t feel sorry for managers since they spend so much of their time making the lives of the workers miserable, trying to stop unionization of workers and destroy unions, ripping off the workers, customers, and the government. Nowadays, even managers are being treated as clogs in the system. No one put a gun to their heads and told them to take the job.

            Charge $100 an hour? You must be talking about a lawyers, consultants and other white collar jobs. You don’t see manufacturing and other blue collar jobs paying that kind of money.

          • Reese

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/14070a917c3bce4cb0709aa2ba34b2f4edbda08684cf9d27a2327c922932541a.jpg
            Hey, time to get back to golf! This has been fun – and we sure helped Ms. Christy look like a busy blogger – but, my boomer buddies are ready to tee off for another weekend of golf and beer and all that middle-class stuff. Life is fun! Have a good weekend!

          • DDRLSGC

            Life is not fun for most of Americans who bust their butts off, are unable to get vacation and sick time off and can’t enjoy the weekend.. Time for you to get a reality check: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v1lBkqE5Pg

          • Reese

            Don’t worry, liberal, I know reality. I was throwing a spinning chain on a West Texas oil rig at 19, working construction in my teens, boot camp at 21, and some awful countries alone on business after I got that first real job. Don’t you worry, I know reality. Ever been to Indonesia? Algeria’s Sahara? Korea in the dead of winter? France at any time? Believe it or not, I can cover your liberal reality. But, I faced reality with a determination to win, not whine…

          • DDRLSGC

            No conservative, you are the one that do not know reality and never will and people can call you out on your conservative reality. American business leaders, wealthy people, and conservatives like you are the ones that are always whining.

          • Status symbols fill decaying souls better than knowledge or understanding.

          • Sarah Flood

            Laws still prevent hospitals from turning sick and poor people away. But then they bill you and turn your bill over to collections, which hounds you until you pay up. And then, if you don’t pay, they garnish your wages.

            I’m guessing you’ve never been poor and don’t actually know that many poor people. Healthcare was NOT affordable before the ACA. I have ACA insurance and I had NO insurance for several years before that. My medical issues went untreated. Because, no, hospitals can’t turn people away from the ER, but regular doctors definitely can and do, and they’re the ones that do preventive care, which is the stuff that keeps you from having super expensive ER visits. (Which ER visits, by the way, are a HUGE drain on the system and are one reason hospitals are so damn expensive. If we had single-payer healthcare and everyone could get basic care, there would be vastly fewer ER visits for minor things that have gotten out of control than we have now.)

        • Reese

          Part of the reason we have so many poor is because we pay poor people to have children they cannot afford. Hang around a welfare office for a few hours and ask yourself, why do these women have so many children by several different fathers? I will admit, we have more concentration of wealth with millionaires than I would like to see, but if your visit all 3rd world countries and even most partly developed,over you will find that only 1 or 2% control over 90% of the wealth. Do some research on it and you will find places like Brazil, Chile, Peru (where I did much of my sales work) the very top controls almost everything. The Philippines, where I lived for 2 years, is exactly the same. Here, I never was the sharpest knife in the drawer, certainly not an honor student, but I worked hard, saved religiously, invested and I retired comfy. Capitalism works!

          • Apparently charity doesn’t actually mean helping the poor, but instead casting unfair stereotypes about the poor to fool oneself into a sense of moral superiority.

          • Reese

            The checks I cast all get cashed. And, then I get follow-up letters for more…

          • Small shavings to give the appearance of generosity from the man who boasts about his ill-gotten wealth to the poor. It’s sick.

          • Reese

            As Stutterin’ Nancy says, “crumbs”…

          • I mean, until you actually show us how much you supposedly donate, the best we can assume is that the amount is zero.

          • DDRLSGC

            Reese, we don’t pay people enough in order for them to having kids, let alone buy products and services. Even Nick Hanauer said so himself:

            https://www.ted.com/talks/nick_hanauer_beware_fellow_plutocrats_the_pitchforks_are_coming

            Wrong Reese, Capitalism doesn’t work when the bosses bankrupted the company where people are deprived of their pension or where corporate raiders come along and buy up even healthy companies and then sell off the assets and pocket the money. Capitalism doesn’t work when people are bombarded with getting a credit card instead of being given assistance by the Wall Street firms in investing in the stock market. Capitalism doesn’t work when companies send the jobs overseas and then complain about the American worker when the CEOs created the sad situation for the American worker.

            …”but if your visit all 3rd world countries and even most partly developed,over you will find that only 1 or 2% control over 90% of the wealth. Do some research on it and you will find places like Brazil, Chile, Peru (where I did much of my sales work) the very top controls almost everything. The Philippines,”

            If we had not interfere in those countries, then the ordinary people would have a better lifestyle; however, our American business people would not allow it.

          • Reese

            Wow. You really have the party line down pat! Did you go to Berkley or NYU, or come up with that yourself?

          • DDRLSGC

            Wrong, you are following the party line hook, line and sinker.

          • DDRLSGC

            No Reese, people are not having one or more kids because we don’t pay them enough which is why the USA has the lowest birthrate since the Great Depression.

            The American business leaders back up the millionaires in the third world countries,, control the resources of the third world countries, tried to suppress and even killed individuals/movements who tried to make get rid of corporate control in their countries and have no intention of letting the ordinary people in those countries have a decent life when it is controlled by a plutocracy/oligarchy so Capitalism does not work especially when half of the people are living on $2 to $10 per day.

          • Sarah Flood

            If I thought I could dig myself out of poverty by having a bunch of kids, I might consider it. Actually, the fact that I’m poor is the reason I have chosen NOT to have kids, and this is a growing trend. Again, if you actually knew anything about millennials, you’d know we’re choosing not to have children at record rates and our birthrate is incredibly low. So low that economists are actually worried about it. Apparently not worried enough to insist we make it affordable to actually have a family.

          • DDRLSGC

            Why bother to have a family when the today’s kids face a grim future due to automation, imported foreign labor, or sending the jobs overseas plus the American companies not investing the the schools and in their own workforce.

      • smrnda

        Okay, so I’m a person who is in a position to hire people in the tech industry. I’ve hired a number of people with degrees in psychology and sociology because they are good at dealing with data concerning human populations. In this day and age of targeted marketing and social media analytics, those are kind of important skills. You do realize that you can’t get a degree in either psychology or sociology without taking classes in statistics?

        my retirement includes a pool and a motor-home.

        I am so impressed by this vast wealth which no doubt provides immense security.

        The major breakdown among young people are those with degrees vs those without. There are no longer good jobs for people without college degrees or other specialized training.

        On top of that, we’ve had an affordable housing shortage because too much of the USA is covered by low-density single family units. That means that, over time, you will eventually run out of affordable space.

      • Melissa

        Those useless majors are sources of information which often contradict church teachings. The useful majors do the same thing.

    • Lark62

      Wow. You don’t know many young people.

      But I’m sure that comments like that, dripping with contempt, will bring them running. Not

      • Reese

        I read – like the article I posted below from Time.com (NOT a conservative icon) and I listen to Rush… and, I watch Fox News which is fair and balanced. My thoughts are well founded. Anyway, what millennials do is a mystery to me… and to many of them…

        • DDRLSGC

          Fox News is not fair and balance as Al Franken pointed out in his book. Fox sue Franken and lost big time. Fox tried get access to the Canadian airwaves but they were denied because they did not meet the specific guidelines in the Canadian law regulating the airwaves. Needless to say, Fox sue to have the law declare unconstitutional; however, the Canadian court rule against them.

          • Reese

            Excuse me. Fox is #1 in non-broadcast TV news in the USA. Canada, a country with less people than Texas, is socialist, so no surprise at them not wanting Fox. So, we lose Canada and pick up all the red states. Not a bad trade, eh!?

          • DDRLSGC

            There is no excuse for you. If the TV and radio industry had not been deregulated, they would not been able to buy up so many radio and TV stations. Furthermore, Canada has better medical healthcare system than the USA and has not gone bankrupt because of. They also don’t tolerate networks spitting vile and smearing tactics which is why they did not allow Fox onto its airwaves.

            I will take Canada over the red states since the red states take too much federal money and hardly give any money to the federal treasury. Those red states are the worst when it comes to education, wages, labor laws, environmental laws, health and safety laws, etc. They have the highest rates of pregnancy, STD, a whole host of health care problems, etc. Not a bad trade. It was and is a very bad trade.

          • Ivan T. Errible

            And they’re also the most religious.

        • LastManOnEarth

          Sarcasm?

          • Lark62

            It could be a Poe. (Poe’s Law: “Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won’t mistake for the real thing.” ) But I think he really does this Fox is “fair and balanced.”

          • LastManOnEarth

            Sad but true.

      • Guthrum

        Young persons (millenials if you wish) are looking for honesty and deeper, meaningful lives. They are attracted to the message of Jesus. Too many churches have moved away from teaching and preaching a personal relationship with Jesus. Young people are saying “don’t soften the message – make it clearer”.
        Young people want to be challenged. Too many churches have watered down their message and theology so much it has less impact than a new car ad. That is one reason that the main line denominations have lost millions of members.
        “A Christ without a cross and a cross without a Christ”

        • Ivan T. Errible

          Young people are a mixed bag; they’re looking for a lot of different things, many of them mutually incompatible. In this, they’re just like every generation before them and all generations to come.

        • vmelkon

          +Guthrum:
          “Too many churches have moved away from teaching and preaching a personal relationship with Jesus.”

          ==Do you know what a relationship is?
          You can’t have a relationship with a dead person. You can’t have a relationship with a person through a book. Who started this none sense about a “relationship with Jesus”?

          • Guthrum

            That means putting one’s faith and trust in Jesus as their savior.
            “Let go, and let God”

          • vmelkon

            Then just say “putting one’s faith and trust in Jesus as their savior” instead of misusing the term “relationship”.

    • HappinessPursuit

      Have you ever tried eating a Tide detergent pod?

      https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/20/us/tide-pod-challenge.html

    • Sarah Flood

      What is this disparaging attitude toward millenials and how do you think it helps make them feel welcome at your church? Maybe this is why they’re not coming… And I’d love to see your statistic’s source on how many are “showing up for work”. What does that even mean? Are they unemployed? Absent from the jobs they do have? How often aren’t they showing up?

  • DDRLSGC

    The Bible is also about the story of the war of extermination by the Israelites when they left Egypt to go back to their homeland and they wiped out everyone because they did not have enough troops to maintain their supply lines and to keep the conquered people under control. The Bible has stories of David and Saul engaging in civil war, engaging in wars with their neighbors, and killing their opponents in order to gain and maintain their power.

  • Reese
  • Lark62

    You can make christianity kinder, and that may slow the exodus.

    But you cannot make it true.

    Once one looks closely at the bible complete with genocide, talking donkeys, a semi-mythological man god and blood sacrifice, the only thing left is embarrassment for believing it in the first place. I’m a boomer not a millenial, and am,now an atheist.

    • Reese

      Good luck.

    • Theodore A. Jones

      Oh, you’re an atheist? Would have never guessed.

      • Lark62

        🙂

    • HappinessPursuit

      Your opinions are noted. Thanks for sharing your beliefs with us!

    • Mr. James Parson

      Don’t forget the unicorns and giant fish.

    • vmelkon

      @Lark62:
      Exactly. You can’t polish a turd. The Bible is what it is: it is jewish culture. There is violence, blood bath, magical stories that made sense to a human from thousands of years ago, misogynistic, slavery, obvious mistakes such as insects have 4 legs (no they don’t), rabbit chew the kud (no they don’t).

  • Religion being merged with the state and the notion that if you want to be pro-Christian that you automatically have to support the President and everything that he does (and being anti-government makes you anti-Christian)… that’s a huge issue that’s not going away.

    What does it sound like to young people’s ears when they constantly hear somebody being elected and then the political proclaims: “I’m President because God exalted me to be President” or something of the sort?

    • vmelkon

      I have seen that attitude on the Jim Bakker shows that I watched on YouTube. I am a canadian so that is the only way I can check the nutty shows that exist in the USA.

  • swbarnes2

    Now we have a generation of educated young adults growing up multicultural worlds with comfortable gender fluidity. Of course, they are leaving the church. They see it as a nasty and ignorant place, a place of lies and sexual discrimination. I don’t blame them.

    But surely there are individual churches that have the welcoming ethos young people desire. Is there hard evidence that these churches do a better job of getting and keeping young people? Surely Christians are studying which churches are getting and keeping young people, to know what policies work…right?

    • Guthrum

      Many are leaving because a lot of churches have become lukewarm. Young people today want a spiritual experience. Modern psychology and warm fuzzy sermons will not attract them. They are saying “do not water down the message. Make it clearer”
      Large numbers don’t mean a thing. The churches must get back to preaching the Bible: the Gospel of repentance. Everyone needs to be asked if they were to die in the next minutes, where would they spend eternity?
      Jesus said that those who are born again would enter the kingdom of God: no other way. That is the message today’s church must take to the people.

      • vmelkon

        @Guthrum:
        You should also ask them, if a 1 year old dies, where is he going to spend eternity? He did not accept Jesus. What if a half brain dead person dies and has not accepted Jesus? What about my cat? What about the people in other countries who aren’t christian? What about other life forms?

        • DDRLSGC

          What about mentally handicapped people as well?

          • Matthew McCormick

            Systematic Theology-Soteriology

        • Matthew McCormick

          Systematic Theology/Soteriology

      • Melissa

        Actually, I am a young person who is looking for psychology and warm fuzzies. I do not want some unstable individual threatening families about unbaptized children being separated from their families the afterlife forever as punishment for not being Christian.

        • Matthew McCormick

          I am not sure how to conclude a person is “unstable”. I am not aware that is medical term. However, don’t blame the messenger.

    • Ivan T. Errible

      I stopped going to a (Mainline) church because it was boring and they kept lecturing me and asking me for money. Also I have many more interesting things to do on my few days off and so I don’t want to be bothered.

      • Sarah Flood

        Honestly, I have a church I love, but giving up half a day of my day and a half off a week REALLY sucks. I wish churches would offer evening service times during the week to fit the schedules of millennial worshippers. Sunday morning worship just isn’t realistic for a lot of us; most businesses are open on Sundays and most millennials don’t have traditional work schedules.

        • Brianna LaPoint

          its not just about schedules though. some of it is about belief. some people have stopped pretending they want to be christian and let it all out, despite what their friends and families wanted for them

    • Mr. James Parson

      Barna Group does some of that.

      https://www.barna.com/

    • Matthew McCormick

      Let me find that Gospel passage where Jesus took a popularity poll…now where is that…?

  • Anna

    You know, some of us just leave because we don’t believe anymore, and staying to practice a religion in which we no longer believe makes us feel like hypocrites. It’s not just the corruption and the lack of care for others.

    • Matthew McCormick

      The entire question of the Reformation is authority. Is the authority ourselves? Each of us, individually? Separately? I shudder. Or, is the authority Jesus Christ, Who founded a Church, and gave it all authority He has? The Apostles were traitorous Keystone Cops, but He still gave them His authority.

      If you don’t believe Jesus is the Son of God, then your conclusion is rational.

      • Anna

        I have met practicing Christians who don’t believe Jesus is the son of God, and the church we were attending at that time had no issues with that. That’s not really the problem. Viewing everything by hierarchy and who is under the authority of whom is a really medieval worldview that isn’t really relevant here since North America isn’t currently a theocracy. I’m not legally obliged to put myself under the authority of any religion and since I don’t believe in God, I don’t believe he has the authority to order me to subscribe to a particular faith, either.

        Given that Western Christianity in particular is very focused on the importance of right belief (i.e., orthodoxy) rather than right practice (orthopraxy), if I find myself incapable of belief in the religion’s tenets, then I am not going to remain there. I am open to the possible of the supernatural, and I’ve explored other religious options that require praxis rather than faith, which is far more appealing, but it’s not like the lack of church attendance has left a giant hole in my life.

        • Matthew McCormick

          Ok. Politely, then why are you commenting on this page, please? God doesn’t have to listen to you. He doesn’t exist. You are God. Jesus will not understand, of course, but by all means try that one out on Him right after you die. No sweat here. We know what He’ll say. He said it already.

          By definition, no one who does not acknowledge Jesus as the Christ, is NOT a Christian, aka Jehovah’s Witness. The term means something, unless one is just babbling nonsense. There are no new heresies, only new heretics. The old heretics are dead (and on fire, some would quip). The progenitor of Jehovah’s Witnesses was the Arian heresy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism.

          Help me understand. How does one get right practice with wrong belief? Not sure I follow that one. “All people are not created equal, nor are they endowed with inalienable rights, etc., etc,…but, we’re “all good”? My reading of Christian history and American history is constant, yea, eternal struggle to live up to one’s creed? Start with perfect practice? And no creed? Or, the practice is what it is, and the creed shifts eternally to make the practice, whatever it is perfect? Illogical, Mr. Spock would say.

          Pray the Muslims don’t take over. They may not be as tolerant as we Christians have been.

  • Brianna LaPoint

    Meh, i know let people be people. but theres a group of christians that see nothing wrong with mixing Christianity with Buddhism. It sounds great at first, then i met someone that believes this nonsense. His beliefs were conservative, and some of it wasnt about self improvement but promoting Jesus Christ. Thus i have concluded, christianity should not mix with other beliefs (even though there is no way to prevent such a thing) other than say, this is not for me, nor is it what I believe. I left the church and christianity because christians dont practice what they preach. An atheist told me you can be good without god, and hes right. You dont need Jesus to be a good person.

    • Mr. James Parson

      Yes, you can.

      And you save money and do whatever you want on Sunday or any other day

  • james warren

    The church still stands foursquare against abortion, despite what the Bible says in Numbers 5.
    Abortion is wrong, unless a Christian pastor or believer gets his mistress pregnant.

    Let’s face it. The dogmatic and theological exalted titles applied to Jesus decades after his death are no longer compelling or persuadable in our modern global culture.

    The church worships Christ instead of following Jesus.

    • Matthew McCormick

      Sincerely, can you help me understand the difference between the two?

      • james warren

        Of course.

        One source is the Bible which presents a detailed description of an abortion carried out by a priest and the fact that Jesus says nothing about abortion.

        The opposite view is pro-life, which insists that it is murder according to Christian culture.

        A fundamentlist, pro-Trump evangelical said on FOX “News” that morality and ethics don’t matter. The only thing that DOES matter is for Trump to guarantee that fetuses during a pregnancy will not be killed.

        This seems to them to work out fine, except for the long record of conservatives and pro-life politicians and pastors insist their adultery is hidden by insisting on abortions for the extra-marital partners they are having sex with.

        • Matthew McCormick

          I’ll pick the 5th Commandment for $1k.

          • james warren

            Which version of the commandments are you referring to? The Bible lists three.

            One version says the 5sth Commandment is about honoring one’s parents.
            This seems rather strange since Jesus made savage attacks on the family values of his day and did so very, very often.

          • Matthew McCormick

            Since the OT does not give cardinal order, I meant “not kill”. In Catholic doctrine, that is #5.

  • LOL *coughbullshitcough*
    People are NOT leaving Christianity because of “LIES AND SEXUAL DISCRIMINATION.”
    They are leaving because they don’t believe the theology/dogma is true anymore.

    https://religionnews.com/2016/09/22/why-most-people-leave-religion-they-just-stop-believing/
    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/08/24/why-americas-nones-left-religion-behind/
    https://www.npr.org/2013/01/15/169342349/more-young-people-are-moving-away-from-religion-but-why
    https://listverse.com/2013/03/23/10-reasons-for-man-to-leave-religion-behind/
    https://www.osv.com/OSVNewsweekly/PapalVisit/Articles/Article/TabId/2727/ArtMID/20933/ArticleID/20512/Young-people-are-leaving-the-faith-Heres-why.aspx

    At least do some [modern, non-2010] research before making such baseless, silly claims.
    I left Christianity because I finally read the Bible throughout, read counter-views, and watched some debates. Once a section of the Bible is debunked, then the whole book and belief is questionable and suspect.

    • Sarah Flood

      If they don’t believe that theology/dogma is true, doesn’t it follow they believe it is lies? I mean, I left because I realized I had been either actively or passively lied to on NUMEROUS occasions. And sexual discrimination was another factor. I found a more tolerant denomination, and I realize an anecdote is not evidence, but from the people my age I’ve talked to, lies and abuse of minorities, women, and children were the huge deciding factors. My boyfriend, who is just barely Gen X, left his church because of, well, lies.

      • It’s not lying if the dogma is sincerely believed to be true. It’d just be ignorance.

      • TinnyWhistler

        Yep. The lies and discrimination make millennials take a second and third look. Many conclude that they don’t believe.

    • Matthew McCormick

      I would, gently, recommend further exegesis from a sound, and well respected Biblical scholar who is widely respected, well written, and well thought of. May I humbly suggest Dr. Scott Hahn. He has several books which may interest you, as well as several multi-media outreaches.

      Of course, the Biblical scholar you adhere to will greatly effect the viewpoint presented. I would recommend though, this living, 21st century scholar should be able to put into 21st century, non-academic terms what is actually going on in the text. There are, at least I know in Catholic Bibles, extensive footnotes to avoid confusion and explains as much as possible in the same book. The Catholic Church has never opposed translation of the Bible into vernacular languages. It has opposed bad translations leading to confusion/heresy.

      All Biblical texts are thousands of years old. Have been through several translations, of which several translations exist today, from Greek/Hebrew to Latin to English/German to English, including figurative language, narrative history, poetry, wisdom literature, prophetic literature, gospel, oratory, and epistle. If you are a student of languages, you will know there are immediate limits to the translators ability to convey identical meaning, and then driven by the translators themselves, as necessary.

      So, be a wise “shopper/consumer” in terms of Biblical exegesis. The way you’ll know, unless every adherent to the Bible is irrational, is when explained properly, with expert help, it should make sense to the open minded individual in the 21st century with proper analysis/”historical translation”.

      • Stewart Felker

        Let’s be honest though, many trends in modern academic Biblical studies pretty clearly challenge historic orthodoxy, in any number of respects.

        I know you acknowledged that there were a plurality of views here; but I think it’s easy to underestimate the extent to which historic orthodoxy is regularly challenged. Even liberal Catholic Biblical scholars like John J. Collins have suggested a fundamental irreconcilability between modern critical studies and an orthodox Biblical theology.

        • Matthew McCormick

          Ask Scott Hahn, more than me. The last 2k yrs are classically Catholic.

  • Melissa

    Mormon millennials are leaving because of
    sexual grooming and abuse in church, evidence against truth claims, LGBT and women’s issues. Check out http://protectldschildren.org/. There is a movement to stop allowing bishops to interview kids about their sexuality alone behind closed doors.

  • Matthew McCormick

    The real question is to where/what are they fleeing? Jn 6:68.