What Spiritual Warfare Looks Like

I’ve written at some length about the upcoming prayer rally “The Response” and its problematic organizers and endorsers, and I have also devoted quite a bit of time to the New Apostolic Reformation, a neo-Pentecostal Christian movement that regularly engages in spiritual warfare tactics, displays a disturbing anti-Pagan emphasis, and has intertwined itself with Perry and his prayer event. While I use the terminology “spiritual warfare” quite often, I think that it’s hard to envision what this practice is like among the Christians who engage in it. I’ve mentioned that it is, in essence, malefic magic, but that’s often a difficult picture to square with the usual harmless image of devout Christians with heads bowed and hands clasped. But an upcoming New Apostolic Reformation-led event, brought to my attention by fellow Pagan blogger Hecate, does an very good job of illustrating how “spiritual warfare” works in their context.


The above video is from an upcoming prayer-war event called “DC40” which will “lay siege” on Washington D.C. to change the “District of Columbia” into the “Disctrict of Christ” (they even issued a faux-legal “divorce decree”). This initiative is being co-led by Cindy Jacobs (who managed to find the spiritual bright-side in the Japan and Haiti earthquakes) and John Benefiel of the Heartland Apostolic Prayer Network (HAPN), both influential figures in the New Apostolic Reformation movement, and both are national endorsers for Rick Perry’s “The Response.” In anther video, organizer and “prophetic artist” James Nesbit makes clear that the goal is to return Washington D.C. to Christ, and to eliminate compromise in our government.


That animus towards compromise isn’t an aberration. Benefiel’s HAPN released a “Declaration of Light” that made it very clear that they have “no power to purpose or accept any compromise of the promises of God, and we declare illegal in the earth any action of any people, Nation or nations that undertake what is contradictory to the Word of God.” In short, if it isn’t God-sanctified, it doesn’t apply to them.

Now many see these sorts of things and simply scoff. But for a large number of modern Pagans the focused intent of will, the use of prayer to achieve goals, the harnessing of intent towards a shared goal is taken very seriously, we call it magic (or magick). If we believe that groups of Pagans working towards some shared spiritual goal is effective, then by extension we can’t help but take an initiative to harness the wills and intents of thousands of Christians towards a goal that would marginalize or harm our faiths seriously. These prayer warriors make plain that their “struggle is not against flesh and blood” and that they “do not curse those deceived,” but disclaimers do not make malefic magic positive. These groups have made it very, very, clear that our gods are their enemies.

The question is how do we respond? Some want to respond with their own magical action, but would that simply feed their spiritual warfare paradigm? As the New Apostolic Reformation climbs the ladder of influence and power within politics, organizing their massive group spells, simply ignoring them seems to be quickly fading away as an option.

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  • http://manualwitchcraft.blogspot.com Wesley Young

    I think it’s both possible and desirable for some sort of community wide magical action to occur, though instead of antagonism towards hyper-conservative Christianity, it should be focused on local community building, intra-sectarian bonding and peaceful activism. Our response to “The Response” should never be a mirroring of its hate-mongering nature.
    Living in Perry’s home state, I’ve noticed that much of the power of groups like these flourishes in response to the voting-box apathy of those who oppose them. Down here we generally adopt a fatalist attitude, which has given the Texas Republicans the opportunity to create a masterpiece of Gerrymandering. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/06/01/981009/-Texas-Redistricting:-GOP-map-released So, as disturbing as DC40 is, I say the most effective response is local activism.

  • http://PaganCenteredPodcast.com Dave of Pagan Centered Podcast

    +1 accurate.
    +1 for a link to the new district map, been looking for that :)

    I’m game, so what are we going to do for local activism?

  • http://manualwitchcraft.blogspot.com Wesley Young

    One thing that’s begun to be effect in my personal tradition is an integration of activism into the activities of the coven. However much I advocate that tactic for other paths, it’s hardly my place to dictate how another tradition should change.
    City council elections are an important starting place. Most people jump right past the city-wide elections and focus on state issues. A lot of publicity and policy change can come from these seemingly small offices. And given how abysmal voter turnouts have become, especially here, it should be a piece of cake for interfaith groups to push the outcome in any direction.
    Along those lines, supporting and participating in interfaith groups wherever we are is vital to both Pagan rights and the advancement of pluralism worldwide. Almost all of the rituals I’ve attended here in Austin have taken place in interfaith spaces, both at UU churches, and one Methodist church. Building bridges between religions is the foundation of affection local policy. And local policy informs the direction of state policy, and so and so forth. So that’s two brief ways that I feel deserve implementation.

  • http://PaganCenteredPodcast.com Dave of Pagan Centered Podcast

    Austin has an awesome Pagan community, wish we had as much cohesion and overall WIN that Austin has over here in Houston especially since there’s a lot of Pagans here – don’t let the folks putting up 200ft tall crosses fool ya ;).

    I just don’t know what to do here since there’s just so much to be disappointed about with the Houston Pagan community that I’ve been exposed to in my 3+ years here. I’ve confirmed that I’m just focusing on the negative by talking to folks in Austin that used to be involved in the Houston Pagan community.

    Major kudos for integrating activism into the tradition. I am seeing this more with trads, hopefully everything works out.

    You are right though, getting into local office is a great “foot in the door” – also gives folks a more reasonable insight into the day-to-day of government officials and what they deal with.

  • http://manualwitchcraft.blogspot.com Wesley Young

    Well what this makes me want to say is obviously we need so more cross-city dialogue/potential events! Austin’s overall WIN as a part of Texas is usually drastically overstated. And regardless, there’s always room for improvement. After all, a cities boundaries shouldn’t be any obstacle for two isolated pagan communities who could both use greater connection. I mean, if the community here was really so great, things would be very very different politically. Voter turnout for highly publicized city council elections here was in the realm of 7%. That’s a figure interfaith communities should be using to their advantage.

  • http://PaganCenteredPodcast.com Dave of Pagan Centered Podcast

    CMA seems to be a halfway decent bridge between Austin and Houston. Austin, I wouldn’t say their community is so much formal and organized from what I seen, just seems every Pagan I meet introduces me to 2 more when I’m in Austin.

  • http://manualwitchcraft.blogspot.com Wesley Young

    The main issue with CMA is that I havent seen much activism come out of it. Seems to me to be more internally focused, with very little proactive component. Which has its place, but isnt really addressing what we’re talking about. I dont really have many connections to the Houston scene, but clearly there are plenty of issues here in Tx affecting Pagans that we should and could be working on, both apart and together. And that cooperation when it comes to public sphere activism is just something I dont see and really want to.

  • Jc Dufresne

    Check out http://www.au.org or your local Democratic Party http://www.txdemocrats.org

  • http://www.OccultCorpus.com Caliban

    I think the greatest danger in this movement is that its extremism might inspire some believers to feel they must undertake more direct, drastic and material actions against their imagined enemies. Magic works most strongly upon the mind, and belief can be a very dangerous thing.

    As far as a ritual response, I think it might be nice to coordinate an observance along with this to honor the unique spiritual contributions and sacred sites of each of the States and one important District. For the last, the virtues of tolerance, secularism and the separation of Church and State seem singularly apt.

    Rather than one centralized, simultaneous observance such as these prayer warriors propose, I think that a multitude of individual, heart-felt, personal or small-group observances would be a better countervailing force. Each of us working according to the spirit that guides us, knowing that others are each in their own way doing the same.

  • nefaeria

    After seeing the tragedy in Norway, I think that these concerns are especially valid.

  • Mr Willow

    My greatest fear is that all this Spiritual Warfare will give rise to a very physical battle.

    Did everyone see the news from Oslo? http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/07/23/what_did_the_oslo_killer_want

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1127101530 Alan J Sheridan

    I’ll freely admit that the use of fire imagery in the first video brought the possibility of physical battle to mind. But that said, I refuse to give into fear about it. I may not know martial arts, but I know momentum can be used to slam an opponent into a wall with very little effort. Maybe the spiritual equivalent of that will take the fight out of them?

  • Baruch Dreamstalker

    But what is the wall against which to squander their momentum? I suggest the image of the wall of separation of church and state, rooted in the Constitution.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1127101530 Alan J Sheridan

    Brilliant! I love that idea!

  • http://worksofliterata.wordpress.com Literata

    As another DC resident, I have personally committed to make a daily devotion to Columbia, another aspect of the goddess of Liberty/Freedom, and to pray to her to help this country preserve its foundational commitment to religious liberty. I’m still deciding what forms that will take, but I’m interested in both large- and small-scale responses. More on my intent here.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1226891346 Cara Schulz

    Hail Columbia!

  • Anonymous


    Thanks so much for bringing this to the attention of your wold-wide readership. I’m very grateful to Literata, who blogs at http://worksofliterata.wordpress.com/ , and who now has up her own very good post about this event, for bringing this Samhein siege to my attention.

    As an urban Pagan and a devotee of Columbia, the Goddess to whom my city is dedicated, I’m very grateful for any support that other Pagans can give to us.

  • Nutmeggy713

    Where’s Harry Potter when we need him? Maybe instead of retaliating with malicious magic(k), pagans everywhere should work a binding or shield ritual of some sort? Something to protect the people they choose to target (I’m assuming it’s not only pagans but homosexuals and the transgendered and other groups?). Imagine if they all got together with their prayers only to be answered with crickets chirping and tumble weeds!

  • Anonymous

    Sadly, when their prayers are answered only with crickets chirping and tumbleweeds, they conclude that they didn’t pray hard enough.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1127101530 Alan J Sheridan

    Or they might conclude that they need to take more physical, direct action than prayer. That could be a problem.

  • Ananta Androscoggin

    “If you pray hard enough, water will run uphill. How hard? Why, hard enough to make water run uphill, of course.”
    — Lazarus Long (Woodrow Wilson Smith)

    (A Robert A. Heinlein character)

  • Baruch Dreamstalker

    What I don’t find in either video is whether the organizers plan a physical rally in DC to climax this campaign, or are working only on the spiritual plane. Perhaps they haven’t made up their minds yet themselves and are waiting to see what the response is to the call before making further plans.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1226891346 Cara Schulz

    They say they will have “worship teams on site” for 40 days in Washington DC – and teams in each state on its featured day.

  • Baruch Dreamstalker

    Right. That could be in church basements. I’m wondering what the Mall will look like.

  • Juliaki

    Their web site already says what church in DC they will be meeting at.

  • http://www.magickal-media.com Alice C. “A.C.” Fisher Aldag

    Like with any hex, negative Christian prayers can be grounded or transformed. I highly discourage bouncing it back, as this merely creates a ping-pong effect. “I use the energy sent by ‘the Response’ to create positive change and transformation, in the form of religious freedom and tolerance for all.” Let ‘er rip.

  • jeflin3

    I agree with Alice. Perhaps in addition, doing research into figuring out what they’re praying for and seeing if we can filter the stuff that isn’t necessarily dangerous? Eg, if they’re asking for a less corrupt government that is kinda a good thing to let thru.

  • Phredd229

    Do we let them decide what is “less corrupt”?

  • jeflin3


  • Baruch Dreamstalker

    Word, Phredd! Their magick is the product of their worldview, not one iota of which I would want to reinforce.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1127101530 Alan J Sheridan

    I’m in favor of harnessing all of that energy “for the Light” that they’re going to raise and modifying its direction to encourage harmony among all people of all faiths and political/philosophical views. They want all the states to “cry as one”? Cool, let’s add a modulating wave of energy to theirs to have all states “cry in relief and joy as one” in a new age of tolerance, compassion, and empathy. It’d be a shame to just *waste* all that energy they’re raising, why not repurpose it instead?

  • http://paosirdjhutmosu.wordpress.com Djhutmosu Si-Hathor

    Or repurpose it and have it blow up in their faces. :) We don’t always need to be nice.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1127101530 Alan J Sheridan

    LOL, agreed we don’t always need to be nice, but having it do something we want it to do works fine for me :)

  • http://cathrynbauer.wordpress.com Cathryn Bauer

    I found the first video frightening and immediately thought of Savonarola. This is violent, scary stuff; these people clearly have quite a charged, threatening mythology built up around us. I do believe that the best thing we can do is insist on our rights personally, to fight the battles we see right in front of us while consciously beseeching for peace and lawfulness (freedom of religion is the law in this country, though you’d never know it from these videos. I do think that focused energy is needed. What has worked very well for me on a microlevel is worth doing IMO on a much larger one like this, and it’s needed desperately. When there is a potentially out-of-control situation in the courtrooms where I work, I keep on writing on my steno machine like my job requires me to do. Since my attention is so divided that I can’t focus 100 percent or do much that is complicated, I have a simple formula. I call upon Brighid, “Goddess, peace; Mother, peace; here in this room; wisdom and discernment to all.” This has yet to fail me. I plan to adapt it accordingly on a daily basis for the foreseeable future.

    I am usually a great proponent of simply going about one’s own chosen business with integrity and allowing others to do the same. I do believe, however, that given the vehement and IMO rather gleeful focus directed against us, that chosen business needs to include a direct spiritual response.

  • Charles Cosimano

    Well, if they end up like Savanarola, that might not be bad. But the method for dealing with this is incredibly simple. You simple create a psychic trap, as it were, for all the energy they put out so it does not reach the target, rather it is stored, transformed and available for use for your own purposes.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Lamyka-L/649965363 Lamyka L.

    HOW F*CKING DARE THEY involve Hawai’i in this. I can’t even watch the rest of the first video I’m so pissed with it. How dare they use our country and our ‘aina like some bent over prison b*tch to mask their agenda. And to include that they’ll use Hawai’i”s and make it give over it’s Mana for THEM? Oh, hells no. I’m passing this around to every Hawaiian Rights group I can get in touch with. Our people and our land are NOT going to be used and raped like this. We’ll have our own Kahuna block their sick.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1127101530 Alan J Sheridan

    You know they’re just starting in Hawai’i, right? That’s the first day. Every day after that the focus shifts to another state.

  • Nate

    By all means block them at the start though, the less momentum they build the better.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Lamyka-L/649965363 Lamyka L.

    I guess I took an immediately aggravated stance as we are illegally the “50th state”. Or perhaps that it’s due to American business men and racism that we were and are still being illegally occupied by the US. Or could be that being hateful goes against everything that IS the spirit of our Land and our People.

  • Crystal Kendrick


  • Anonymous

    sic Pele on them! Aloha!

  • Crystal Kendrick

    I think I’m gonna take up “Block their sick” as my mantra. Thanks for that, Lamyka. It’s a powerful statement. These folks are certainly pompous brazen bastards, aren’t they?

  • http://johnfranc.blogspot.com/ John Beckett

    Throughout history, when times have gotten tough, people have banded together in ever-tightening clans and blamed their problems on The Other: foreigners, Jews, heretics, witches…

    It is happening again. As Jason points out, this is malefic magic. If left unchallenged it will cause harm. I believe we need a two-pronged response.

    First, we must not allow them to define us for the mainstream public. Those of us who can be “out” need to be out. “The Other” may be scary, but the nice guy or girl in the cubicle down the hall who dances under the Full Moon isn’t.

    Second, malefic magic calls for a magical response. Those of you who were part of Isaac Bonewits’ “Spells for Democracy” may remember that some of the most effective workings were revealing spells. Help these people show themselves for what they really are – and what it would mean if they get what they want. Much of mainstream America may be OK with the Ten Commandments in classrooms but they don’t want “Biblical Law” any more than we do.

    But the best thing we can do is simply be the best Pagans and best Americans we can be. Live lives of honesty, integrity, and generosity. Worship our goddesses and gods. Honor our ancestors. Respect Nature and the Spirits of Nature.

    We need not fear these “spiritual warriors” but we cannot afford to ignore them.

  • http://PaganCenteredPodcast.com Dave of Pagan Centered Podcast

    Agreed, use their momentum against them.

  • http://PaganCenteredPodcast.com Dave of Pagan Centered Podcast

    Agreed, use their momentum against them.

  • Belladmoon825

    Well said!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Lamyka-L/649965363 Lamyka L.

    I’ve made a FB event for prayer against such hate, I hope everyone–regardless of race, faith, etc. will join in on pule or prayer to return their hate back on themselves and on to no one else. Please share this even with as many people as possible.


  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1546700084 Valerie Herron

    Lamyka, I posted links to your group/event all over the place. Thanks for organizing this :)

  • Anonymous

    Our people and our land are NOT going to be used and raped like this. We’ll have our own Kahuna block their sick.

    Thank you.

    We, here, in DC, feel the need of such protection.

    We, literally, live in Columbia’s district. And they are attacking us for living in her sacred space. I will call upon Columbia every day between now and Samhein, our High Holy Day, when they have chosen to attack us, and ask her, as the central genius locii of this sacred space, to protect us against their attacks.

    If their evil does nothing else, it will make Columbia a real and vibrant Goddess for modern Pagans.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1226891346 Cara Schulz

    Celestial choir! enthron’d in realms of light,
    Columbia’s scenes of glorious toils I write.
    While freedom’s cause her anxious breast alarms,
    She flashes dreadful in refulgent arms.
    See mother earth her offspring’s fate bemoan,
    And nations gaze at scenes before unknown!
    See the bright beams of heaven’s revolving light
    Involved in sorrows and veil of night!

    The goddess comes, she moves divinely fair,
    Olive and laurel bind her golden hair:
    Wherever shines this native of the skies,
    Unnumber’d charms and recent graces rise.

    (portion of a poem by Phillis Wheatley, written to George Washington)

  • http://twitter.com/_balance_ balance

    Their evil won’t, but their attention will. Where they give energy, of whatever sort, the object of focus will grow. I think it’s poetic justice. I, myself, suddenly have an interest in and nascent devotion to Columbia. =) As above, so below. So mote it be.

    Just don’t focus too much on their war, or we’ll help grow it. Defense and healing and redoubling of civic efforts and integrity are appropriate, but let’s not put on war paint, or it does become a war with /two/ sides fighting.

  • Baruch Dreamstalker

    I wouldn’t discourage any of our number who decide this situation calls for their Warrior personae. Those who decide to respond to DC40 on the spiritual plane are going to need to put everything they have into it, and thus need to adopt the persona that pulls all that out of them. There’s wisdom among Warriors; may they apply it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000204507861 Cathie Rayes

    Thank you, Baruch. It’s nice to be acknowledged.

    For me, it’s very weird to be thought of as a Warrior; all my life I have been a Healer–even as a very small child–and filling a Warrior role is scary. It pushes buttons for me about everything I thought I ever was….. but the Mama Tiger in me CANNOT stand by and let this movement proceed without standing up and holding the line as best I can. It’s no longer time to just pick up the pieces and heal those who have been damaged in the fighting. It’s time to prevent any more damage.

    The hatred and obsession these people are spewing has succeeded in doing what absolutely nothing else ever could: it has changed who I am and how I do what I do. In order to bring healing to the world now, I must fight whether I wish to or not.

  • http://sarenth.wordpress.com/ Sarenth

    I’m of the opinion that they don’t need our help to make this a war; they’re already using the term ‘spiritual warfare’ in regards to us and all their enemies. They’ve already declared war on Pagans, homosexuals, bisexuals, transgenders, and anyone not of their ilk. They call our Gods demons, call those who are any of the above orientations possessed and evil, and are actively trying to usurp power for their benefit and our destruction.

    At what point, if not now, do we actually fight back? They’re trying to change our nation from the inside out to reflect their beliefs, morality, and spiritual inclinations. At what point do we say “No!”?

  • Anadeia

    I think “now” would be a good time to say no. To be tolerant of those who are intolerant of us is to participate in our own destruction.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1217702073 Awena Llwyndyrys

    Say no, but do it in the most wise ways possible. Just be careful, and weigh all the options. Reign in any urges toward retaliation or offended avenging acts, at least until ALL options have been considered. We don’t want to follow if they want to lead us in a dance, you know? WE must decide, and not based solely on emotion. We must use all our tools.

    “What if they threw a war, and no one showed up?” is one option.

  • http://vermillionrush.wordpress.com Vermillion

    This is insane. Unfortunately it’s not the insanity we can just pooh-pooh. The thought of these folks getting a national stage to arse around in raises vomit in my mouth. It’s not just Pagans who are getting the brunt of this, what about the Jews? The Muslims? Buddhists? These people want to crap on everyone who doesn’t follow THEIR idea of Christ, I’d bet money they don’t like Catholics either.

    UGH. UGH. UGH.

  • jamie jamison

    They don’t. Catholics and Mormons are out.

  • Auntie Mame

    I just got back from a gathering celebrating the life of Anne Hutchinson, one of the founders of the first town in the new world to make religious freedom and separation of church and state part of its compact. As I read Jason’s post, I was in stunned disbelief. I can’t even hear myself think over the sound of my ancestors turning in their graves.

  • Pagan Puff Pieces

    I’ve often pondered that certain visions for the US could not exist without its dismantling and dissolution, and here comes a plat that works backwards in the order of incorporation, as if to chronologically undo it as it was created. What exactly is the America that people pledge allegiance to? I thought we were already in it, but it seems it’s something something separate from a historical and factual entity. It’s a nation that has yet to be created.

    Or am I breathing too much life into this magic, as Christians often breathe so much life into devils?

  • KB

    First UU Church of Houston is having a counter event for “The Response” at 2p on August 6th. People of all faith backgrounds are invited according to their Facebook event notice.

  • Sarsen

    Years ago a friend of mine came up with an approach in response…rather than engaging in the “warfare” paradigm (playing their game by their rules), his idea was “Spiritual Ecology.” In a balanced ecology, species exist in harmony and those that overreach tend to be subject to dieback and other pruning measures. But the goal isn’t elimination or even conflict, but the health of the whole.

  • http://worksofliterata.wordpress.com Literata

    I agree that earthing and/or repurposing their intent is the best course, but those of you not familiar with them might be surprised at how very, very strong these people are in their intent and purpose. Whatever they call it, they’re good at malefic magic. Repurposing this will not be easy, and I think it will take a fairly coordinated response, which is why I’m interested in asking Columbia to be the focal point for our devotions and other efforts to repurpose as much as possible and ground the rest. I’d love to get advice from people who were involved in Bonewits’ project, too.

  • http://www.patheos.com Star Foster

    That is actually rather terrifying. Joining the images of fire building with our nation’s capital is not exactly reassuring. I’ll be creating an altar to Columbia, and give her offerings and prayers that she may protect her district, founded on the ideals of liberty, during this siege.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1226891346 Cara Schulz

    I have an icon of Columbia Eleutheria (Freedom) on my household’s altar and I’ll be making increased offerings to Her, as well. May She continue to bless us with liberty, compassion, and justice.

  • Stef

    This is incredibly disturbing…especially as the first video apparently does not mention God or Christ, so it’s hard to call this “Christian.” It’s not hard, however, to recognize this action as evil. Suggest invoking the aid of the most protective Deities we can find, as well as of our American ancestors, to defeat this pseudo-Christian evil magic.

  • http://moma-fauna.blogspot.com/ Moma Fauna

    I listened to these while holding my new baby in my arms. Big mistake. How disturbing to think of a future where people like this dictate our choices. Our children deserve a better future than the darkness (which they call “light”) they wish upon them.

    I am not so certain that the warfare is restricted merely to thought forms. Listening to the first video w/o watching, I could hear the swords clashing. How does this make them different from the extremists with bombs? Perhaps only because they have not yet built any. The second video is so desperate & imploring in tone. Desperate people are frightening & make very bad choices. They can justify anything. Not to be a fear monger, but when I look at my children, I cannot help but worry for them.

    Our tiny pocket of Pagans here in Alaska will do our best to make our counter prayers, but it is easy to feel discouraged in a place filled with people who share their sentiments. I am disgusted that they would attempt to sully our beautiful lands with their dirty cause. Were I a subscriber to malefic magick, I would respond in kind.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1127101530 Alan J Sheridan

    Your comment sparked an idea that might have some merit – call on the spirits of nature and the land to help redirect their intent. Alaska is *full* of active nature spirits who would probably be willing to help maintain peace. And congratulations on your newborn!

  • http://moma-fauna.blogspot.com/ Moma Fauna

    Alaska is very powerful, wild, free & you are right, the spirits are strong & vibrant. I like your idea very much Alan, thank you.

  • snowcrashak

    Exactly. Here in Alaska, the land spirits are incredibly strong and free. I think lending our energies to them will strengthen them even further and create a barrier for any malevolent energies heading our way. I feel personally akin to the mountain spirits here and will work with them closely on this.

  • Rua Lupa

    I wish your group strength and prosperity.

  • http://www.facebook.com/zaracon Larry Zaracon Sodders

    What do you say to this kind of out right crap, well there is the bury your head in the sand approach which worked for well for the German people in Hitlers era.
    After all if we ignore it it will go away, Right?
    The time where we can sit back and watch these “good” people dictate for us what is right and good , is quickly coming to an end.
    There is an orchestrated and well financed opponent wanting to take away our right to believe as we will.
    We have seen this battle being played out all around the world. and it never ends pretty.
    These same groups can justify the murder and torture of innocents in Africa in the name of witchcraft, as well as justify the discrimination of people in prisons, in the United States.
    These “good” people , are the same folks that stood in a crowd and yelled Crucify him about their own “Savior”. Because they just didn’t get it.
    SO what do we do to combat it , we bring it to Light , we organize we march, we write our legislators and advise them its not in their best interest to side with these hate groups.
    Or we, light a candle, and bury our heads in the sand and hope it blows over.

  • vajranagini

    i grew up with midwestern crazies like this although they were a bit tamer … this is a big reason i’m blogging about what i call “magickal aikido” – let us use our gifts to tap into these flames they intend to burn us with, shift them and use them to our benefit … they have the raw power but we are the energy workers … vajranagini http://thedragonsgraal.wordpress.com

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1127101530 Alan J Sheridan

    Exactly, we’re totally on the same page on this

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=648912389 Bebhinn Feochadan

    these are the kind of people i really hated to have sit near me in history classes. the founding fathers were not all christian. Thomas Jefferson was a deist, as were many others. the constitution gives them their right to talk smack and gather and such, but it also gives the same rights to everyone else, regardless of faith. there is no set religion here the same as there is no set language, because America was intended to be a safe haven for freedoms. i will actively pray to mutate their malicious intent into something a little more helpful to all.

  • Ck
  • Ananta Androscoggin

    Those who attempt to make fun of them by playing up to them with their own fears are usually only giving them “confirmation” that they were right all along, and that their fears are fully justified. They are given words from their intended victims which they can use to “prove the danger” to others of their ilk.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nicole-Youngman/100001029378646 Nicole Youngman

    This is another new manifestation of a longstanding effort on their part. These days of course they can coordinate nationwide/worldwide much more easily and make much scarier-looking videos…and yes, I worry too about some lone wingnut being pushed over the edge (again) by the images and rhetoric. But the concept of “spiritual warfare” is quite literally medieval, as is using it against Pagans.

    This isn’t just about us–far from it–but we’re certainly on the hit list. These people are extremely territorial and authoritarian, which is a scary combination–they are quite convinced they have the god-given authority to take over the country and will continue trying as long as they exist.

    Good catch Hecate, many thanks.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000204507861 Cathie Rayes

    This specific kind oif crusade has been going on in the US for about forty years but we as Pagans haven’t necessarily been the focus all this time. I’m glad you see that too.

  • vs-f

    We just saw the end result of a kind of spiritual warfare in Norway: a crusader with a cross on his self-designed uniform, out to rid his country of those he considered religiously and culturally undesirable, using his twisted version of a Christian value system to slaughter a nation’s young people. First you start with the rhetoric . . . .

  • Pagan Puff Pieces

    ..and once your logic yourself into accepting certain losses as regretful but necessary, there isn’t much to stop you, and you become convinced it’s a sign of strength.

  • Nicole Youngman

    I must say though, I do find the lion imagery very amusing. Someone brushed up on their Narnia stories before making the site, apparently. :)

  • Nicole Youngman

    Or maybe it was Atwood…”End-Time Handmaidens”? Really? Oy.

  • random deist

    as a diest who was raised christian and has many christian friends, these people make myself, and all of my christian friends sick. They are evil. They need to be stopped. If you as pagans can join hands with rational christians, atheists, muslims, and people of assorted other faiths, Maybe, together we can stop them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000204507861 Cathie Rayes

    I think it’s important to recognize that this is only one prong of the attack; that the attack has been consistent and organized for about forty years (or more); and that these practitioners of Christian magic are HIGHLY skilled, shielded, warded, and protected. Remember that they are invoking Beings who are rampantly powerful through long centuries of fervent worldwide fear and belief, Beings who have gained much power through the blood magic of warfare.

    It’s very easy to get caught in the backlash when one attempts to interfere with this kind of magic. I am not saying to walk away, by any means–I believe we MUST answer this attack–but please don’t take it (or these people) lightly. Be certain you are well shielded and warded yourself, especially if you try redirecting their magic.

    It’s true they don’t admit that they are doing magic at all; in my experience that makes them intensely dangerous. It means they have no ethical restraints–because, after all, the Christian magical system is based upon the belief that they are powerless. They believe that they simply make the request and then God does it, IF it is God’s will. In their belief system, whatever happens is ONLY by God’s will and so they themselvesare completely off the hook as far as responsibility.

    Whether you believe they really are completely off the hook or not, what matters to us here and now is that because they believe they will suffer no consequences (and will indeed be rewarded!), they’re likely to do anything they think of, without restraint. That includes obsessing over emotionally laden daydreams of making us suffer, killing us, etc. We can all recognize that as a visualization technique.

    So far they have no faces to populate these daydreams, but if we touch their magic they will certainly have energy links. I believe that it might be strategically safest to avoid all direct contact (even that of deflection) and work instead through a Goddess or other Guardian Spirit, through the Earth, or even through an abstraction like Social Justice. I myself am very glad to have read Hecate’s blog; I will happily accept Columbia as a face of Justice and work through Her.

    I have a related facebook event, aimed at reclaiming oure world from this barrage of far-right magic. We join together at noon on the 21st of each month to send our energy for balance. Everyone is welcome!

  • http://twitter.com/KulkulkanX Thomas Valdez

    As a Thelemite, I suppose that all I would need to be is homosexual to be their ultimate fear. While, as I have said, a dying beast is dangerous, I fear them not since their system is SO old Aeon. I suggest we train ourselves in both Magick and martial arts and be ready to use what some of you call spiritual Aikido (I am so stealing this term!) to ward off this trash like a matador dodging a dying bull!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1127101530 Alan J Sheridan

    *raises hand* homosexual witch reporting for duty :)

    Cathie, we’re on the same page on this one. You raise a very good point about them not only believing they won’t suffer consequences, but will be rewarded for their actions. You’re right – they have no restraint because they’re using their version of God as the “front man” for the job, so whatever their “God” does is fine with them- as long as it is in accordance with their views.

    Truly a sobering thought.

  • Rua Lupa

    Someone close to me made the comment that God is essentially treated like a spiritual hit man. It was jolting to hear that, but I have to agree with them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000204507861 Cathie Rayes

    YES. That’s it exactly! That IS what they’re doing! The person who said that to you has great insight; thanks for sharing the comment!

  • Rua Lupa

    I always encourage them to talk here but they are an atheist and wouldn’t want to cause conflict.

    I always look to them for insight and good advice as stuff like this comes up often.

  • http://www.facebook.com/elaposta Elizabeth LaPosta

    Perhaps we should become “better healers than they are warriors” ?

  • Juliaki

    What would be intriguing would be to compile a list of attending deities for each state/territory that could be invoked for the “think locally” aspect of any such protection work. Although non-local deities still answer the prayers of their children, there is something about working with a “hometown” deity. Does anyone know if sic a resource exists? If not, would there be interest in a project to compile such a list?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1226891346 Cara Schulz

    In Minnesota we have Old Man Mississippi (and many other states can call on Him, too) There are also the Nymphs at Coldwater Spring. There are, of course, the Gods of the tribes in the area, but I’m unfamiliar with them as I’m not of the First Nations.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1226891346 Cara Schulz

    In Minnesota we have Old Man Mississippi (and many other states can call on Him, too) There are also the Nymphs at Coldwater Spring. There are, of course, the Gods of the tribes in the area, but I’m unfamiliar with them as I’m not of the First Nations.

  • Juliaki

    Right…one thing I’d like to avoid is just snagging/piggybacking First Nations deities and spirits without the permissions of tribes involved, because I personally think that’s disrespectful to the people who have long-established relationships therein. I think there’s enough state-specific imagery, post-colonial cultural lore, and more modern iconography that could be drawn on. It pops up in the oddest places–references in state songs (“Arizona Our Goddess and Our Queen” in the unofficial state song of Arizona) to images on state quarters (Miss Penn/Letitia in Pennsylvania, the Minuteman in Massachusetts, the Old Man of the Mountain in New Hampshire), to images on state seals (Spes in South Carolina and Virtus in Virginia).

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1127101530 Alan J Sheridan

    Using the state seal images might be a way to get more people on the same page. In California, the seal features the Roman goddess Minerva, the goddess of wisdom and war; a California grizzly bear (the official state animal) feeding on grape vines, representing California’s wine production; a sheaf of grain, representing agriculture, and more. Here we could invoke Minerva for her wisdom, the strength of the grizzly, and the fertility/growth of the various crops all together to weave a web of magic without tromping on anyone else’s traditions/deities.

  • jeflin3

    You could go with Hermes, Heckate or Odin for Indiana, the Crossroads of America state. *nod nod*

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1226891346 Cara Schulz

    That’s why I don’t worship the First Nations gods in my area. There are Pagans in our neck of the woods that are First Nations and do honor those Gods. Perhaps they would ask for their help and others of us can stick to the local gods we have honored over the years.

  • http://twitter.com/_balance_ balance

    If they’re the gods of our home environment, I don’t see any problem with not being a blood descendent of the Peoples who gave them their names. We are spiritual kin. Human culture is for humans. It spreads out and blends. Always has.

    We work with Greek, Roman, Norse, etc. deities/spirits/archetypes even when we’re not of those ethnicities, after all, right? And they’re not even our homelands.

    Call on your genius loci without fear. You are part of them. They are part of you. We are all children of the Earth. All Her spirits, all Her people, ONE.

    We could even entreat the Apostolics’ god – whatever goodness is known to be within him – to reject their malefic magic and teach his wayward children the energies of compassion and sharing.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000204507861 Cathie Rayes

    I think that’s the fastest way to succeed. Since it’s my belief that what is being done is being done by the people themselves–just as what we do we do ourselves–it’s easy for me to separate out their actions and see that their God does not actively wish us harm.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1127101530 Alan J Sheridan

    Yeah, their God isn’t to blame, they’re using him like a cannon – aim and shoot. In a way, they’re treating their God like their slave, instead of their deity.

  • Ananta Androscoggin

    It does reveal just how weak their ACTUAL FAITH in their deity really is!

    They don’t seem to be able to believe that he’ll do what he intends to do on his own schedule, but they must take over and do their guesses of what it’ll be for him, thus currying his favor for themselves and a higher status in their heaven than other Christianists.

  • Baruch Dreamstalker

    We are the resource. Each of us is familiar with the tutelary deities of hir own state. Here in Ohio it would be the spirit of the Serpent Mound (now there’s an image to rattle our opponents’ cage…).

  • Juliaki

    I’m not sure that everyone is familiar with the tutelary deities of hir own state…especially for those of us who have moved around a handful of times in our lives and take a while to set down roots. I’ve even talked to pagan-folk in the state where I’m living now who don’t know of any specific deities connected with the state, aside from the Bawlmer “Hon”. 😉

    It might be useful to know who people in other states are working for in case there’s a need to do some work remotely. “Sending energy to Ohio” is much more difficult for me to think on than making an offering for the spirit of the Serpent Mound, for instance.

    Do you know of any place online that has a decent list for the states and territories? If not, would there be interest in me tossing up a FB group today or a web site at some point this week with that kind of info?

  • http://profiles.google.com/johnd39 – steward –

    The Jews in the 1930’s tried to ignore what was going on in Germany then.

    We all know how well -that- strategy worked.

  • Aine

    It seems to me that a group reflection spell would be a decent response.

  • Fritz Muntean

    As a scholar or religion, I can’t help but feel that the major source of the discomfort many modern Pagans feel for the antics of these Pentacostals does not lie in the contrasts between us and them, but in our similarities. Think sibling rivalry.

    According to Harold Bloom, Pentacostalism seems to be nothing less than a kind of homemade American shamanism. Along with dancing and singing ‘in the Spirit’, in an ecstasy scarcely distinguishable from sexual transport, they share with shamans both archaic and modern such stigmata as trances, spirit voices, healings through exorcism, and above all, visionary transport — or ‘prophecy’, as they call it.

    But the parallels to modern Pagan beliefs do not end here. In 1908, the father of the Southern Baptist movement, Edgar Mullins, announced the doctrine of ‘Soul Competency’, “The competency of the soul in religion excludes at once all human interference and every form of religion by proxy. Religion is a personal matter between the soul and God”. In the words of a modern Baptist theologian, “To me [soul competency] means that I am unassailable in my own understanding of God’s will for my life. It means that when someone says, ‘This is what God means to me,’ I cannot tell her she is wrong. I can merely say that her understanding lacks meaning for me.”

    According to this doctrine, which lies at the heart of American Fundamentalism, religious belief or experience cannot be mediated by the community or the congregation, but is a one-on-one act of confrontation, a sense of conversion within the self, unaided by any larger context. Ask yourself — how often have you heard exactly these sentiments expressed on this list?

    It may appear ironic that a religion so committed to a personal, subjective and experiential gnosis could end up taking such an extreme and even obsessive attitude toward dogmatic correctness. But in fact, Fundamentalism (Christian or Pagan) is less about theology than ideology. Christian Fundamentalism is a religion that exists entirely in opposition to virtually everything that has happened in the world since the end of the Civil War — and this has its parallels in the case of so many influential modern Pagan writers (and film makers) — who oppose everything that has happened in the world since the end of the Neolithic.

  • Nicole Youngman

    Very important observations, I think. Another similarity is that Pagans and xian fundamentalists believe in some of the same things but look at them from opposite angles and define them in radically different ways. Most Pagans believe in magick, and fundamentalists believe that we can cast spells and the like as well, but they attribute the power and efficacy of our magick to us invoking Satan’s demons and sending them out to do our bidding. Likewise, they believe that our deities do exist, but consider them demons, minions of Satan, etc. since in their worldview nothing exists supernaturally (for lack of a better term) than God and Satan. And of course, as discussed here, what they call “intercessory prayer” we largely consider baleful magick. For them, if God does it, it’s prayer, not magick–that way they can claim to be doing something very different from what we do, even while they traipse around the perimeters of their property “praying the blood of Jesus over it” for protection.

    Where we are radically different, I think, is that *everything* they do or believe has to be filtered through their interpretation of the Bible (and I’m actually convinced that *that’s* what they worship, not their God or Jesus). Fundamentalism needs a sacred, inerrant text to draw upon. I wonder to what extent the idea that people experience God in different ways has survived to contemporary times–these days, when a church member believes they’ve had a sign from God of some sort, they’re told to pray over it with their spiritual leaders, test it against the text of the Bible, etc., because they have a strong belief that Satan will commonly masquerade as God in order to trick people into doing things they *think* are Godly but are really helping the devil. People higher-up in the church hierarchies are given the authority to “help” members figure out what their messages from God (or Satan, as the case may be) “really mean” by making sure their interpretations are properly “Biblical.”

  • Fritz Muntean

    It’s very important, to keep firmly in mind, that these Pentacostals and Fundamentalists are only ‘Christian’ in the most nominal and broadest sense of the word. They are considered to be little better than raving lunatics (‘Do you handle poisonous snakes? Roll screaming on the floor?) by the great majority of ‘real’, mainline Christians.

    Also — do be aware that the religious ideas these dillweeds consider to be ‘inerrant’ have almost nothing to do with the actual Judeao-Christian scriptures. In contrast, these dogmatic beliefs almost always involve ‘creative’ (ie, non-obvious) interpretation of isolated scriptural passages — or (more usually) the reification of long-standing traditions with a non-scriptural basis.

    Repeat after me — “The great majority of Christians in N America are really really nice people, who are for the most part very supportive of racial, ethnic, confessional, and sexual diversity!” This is the truth. Honestly. Repeat as necessary.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PMTLR3IIGKPHZ2YNU3PDXWK4WA Kenneth

    “Repeat after me — “The great majority of Christians in N America are really really nice people, who are for the most part very supportive of racial, ethnic, confessional, and sexual diversity!” This is the truth. Honestly. Repeat as necessary.”………….

    If that were true, we wouldn’t need to repeat mantras to ourselves to convince ourselves, would we? It would be self-evident in our encounters with the “great majority” of Christians. In addition, if loons are truly a tiny minority, we wouldn’t expect them to be able to define the identity and platforms of the political party which now holds a majority in Washington and dozens of states….

  • Nicole Youngman

    It will vary widely with location. Nationwide (in the US) their political power is very disproportionate to their actual numbers because THEY get out and vote, etc–they stay very disciplined through the hierarchical organizations of their churches. And of course in places like the Deep South you’ll have more xians who are fundamentalists than not. Other parts of the country/world though it’s very different.

  • http://paosirdjhutmosu.wordpress.com Djhutmosu Si-Hathor

    I wonder why we find ourselves not needing to repeat such mantras for say, Hindus. It’s a mystery, it really is. A mystery of the AGES. /sarcasm

  • http://oldmoonsisterstars.wordpress.com Apuleius Platonicus

    “It’s very important, to keep firmly in mind, that these Pentacostals and Fundamentalists are only ‘Christian’ in the most nominal and broadest sense of the word. They are considered to be little better than raving lunatics (‘Do you handle poisonous snakes? Roll screaming on the floor?) by the great majority of ‘real’, mainline Christians.”

    Anyone with the slightest familiarity with the Bible, the history of the Christian religion, and the writings of its most influential exponents, knows that modern day Pentecostalism is actually a fairly unremarkable variant of the Protestant branch of the Christian religion, and English Protestantism in particular.

    In particular, their intolerance and fanaticism are a seamless continuation of the beliefs and practices associated with the likes of Calvin, Luther, William Perkins and John Wesley.

  • Fritz Muntean

    Hmmmm. I’m a Pagan with a graduate degree in Religious Studies. I know my way around the Bible really well, and the development of NRMs within Protestantism since the early 19th century is a subject with which I have far more than your ‘slightest familiarity’. Let me recommend to you (and those who are following this thread) Harold Bloom’s ‘The American Religion’ (S&S, 1992). See how much you enjoy arguing with Prof Bloom. You can add him to your little black book of progressive academic scholars of whom you disapprove.

    I will agree with you though in regard to your 2nd paragraph above. ‘Intolerance and fanaticism’ are kind of strong, especially when applied with your especially broad brush, but although the failings of modern Pentacostalism can be traced to some aspects of Calvinism, Calvinism has been dead in the water — as far as the broader Christian faith community is concerned — for about 200 years. Traces of this admittedly toxic theology can still be found (and cherry-picked) here and there, but.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PMTLR3IIGKPHZ2YNU3PDXWK4WA Kenneth

    The fact that we share experiential gnosis in some measure does not make us like them. Jazz is all about experience and in-the-moment vs a pre-set liturgy too. I don’t see them calling for warfare against others who don’t play like them.

    The analogy does not hold in several other regards either. Christian prayer warriors are not at all about personal gnosis. They do not believe at all that we each find our way to the divine. They believe they are the sole legitimate arbiters and enforcers of God’s will based on their interpretations of ancient and largely forged writings. The fact that pentacostals may believe in personal prophecy means little. Their prophecy always confirms what they already believed. If you doubt that, try going to one of their churches and presenting a revelation that God favors gay marriage…

    In any case, pentacostals are by no means the only ones or even the predominant forces in the prayer war movement. There are plenty of congregational-type protestants and many, many conservative Catholics.

  • Fritz Muntean

    I’ll only agree in part. It’s been my experience that the more individual Pagans rely on UPG (Unverifiable Personal Gnosis) and its correlative OPW (Other Peoples’ Website) to form their worldviews, the more like these Pentacostals they behave — in nearly all the ways you cite.

    And as far as ‘prophecy’ (or ‘personal belief’) always confirming what people already believe, have you been paying any attention to what the Pagan fundamentalists have been saying in opposition to the recent (Pagan) scholarship — especially what’s been discovered in the way of our own ‘largely forged writings’ in regard to the ‘Burning Times’, the ‘Prehistoric Paradise of the Goddess’, or the ‘Unbroken Chain or Initiations Going back to the Neolithic’?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_PMTLR3IIGKPHZ2YNU3PDXWK4WA Kenneth

    Of course there are dogmatic pagans as well. How many of them are proposing to hijack our government to enforce their beliefs as the law of the land?

  • http://paosirdjhutmosu.wordpress.com Djhutmosu Si-Hathor

    Of course, that’s just for those for whom “Burning Times”, “Prehistoric Paradise of the Goddess”, or “Unbroken Chain of Initiations Back to the Neolithic” have any relevance.

  • Robert Mathiesen

    ‘Soul Competency” derives historically from ‘Soul Liberty,’ enunciated by Roger Williams in the 1630s. For Williams, it lies at the root of his notion of “the wall of separation” between church and state, and is the foundation of all freedom of religion. Here in Rhode Island, where I live, Roger Williams is revered as the founder of the colony (later, the state) and the first proponent of religious liberty in what would later become the United States, as well as the first Baptist.

    It is truly bizarre how the Southern Baptists have turned all this on its head, and drawn conclusions that Roger Williams would have abhorred..

  • Souris Optique

    Um, no. My “discomfort” as you put it, stems entirely from the fact that they are an organized group that wants to strip freedom of religion from everyone who does not think as they do. They’re free to believe whatever they like — they are NOT free to force their beliefs on the rest of the populace and threaten violence against those who disagree with them.

  • http://oldmoonsisterstars.wordpress.com Apuleius Platonicus

    All forms of Paganism are, in the language of the historian of religion Jan Assmann, “primary religion”. And all forms of monotheism, according to the same terminology, are “secondary religion”.

    Secondary religions only came on the scene after homo religiosus had been doing our thing for tens of thousands of years. Monotheists have no real choice but to follow the already well established patterns that are already hard-wired into us right down to our sacral chakras.

    All parallels and similarities between Paganism and Pentecostalism must be viewed in light of the ancientness of Paganism, measured in millennia, and the johnny-come-lateliness of Pentecostalism, measured, at most, in decades.

    But it must also be emphasized that there is nothing very special about parallels between Paganism and Pentecostalism. There are far more parallels between Paganism and Catholicism. But there are orders of magnitude more parallels between Paganism and Vajrayana Buddhism (and those parallels run much, much deeper).

  • ThemonTheBard

    Articles like this get my blood up, as they do anyone’s. I have two comments.

    First, people become what they fight against. You see that no more clearly than here: these people fight the devil, and they have become the devil they fight.

    Second, it does no good to react to this, because reaction allows these people to frame the conflict. Instead, take the initiative and focus on counter-magic to create what we all want to see, whether these bozos are out hexing or killing or just nursing their hatred in the dark: a world, a nation, a state, a city, a neighborhood of religious tolerance and acceptance, of fair treatment, of compassion, of prosperity, of health, of abundance.

  • ThemonTheBard

    Just as an aside, regarding scary comparisons to Jews in Nazi Germany.

    According to Wikipedia, the suggestion of a “final solution” of genocide against the Jews was not framed publicly prior to a speech by Hitler in 1939, six years after he had taken power. Some historians claim the decision wasn’t made until 1942.

    The point being that Hitler was already in power long before the Jews would have known he was specifically out to get them. Nor is there any reason to believe there was anything they could have done about it, in any case. Hitler enjoyed approval ratings with the German people in the 90% range through most of his rule.

    The fundamentalist/neo-evangelical Christians of this stripe comprise a large enough minority to be able to game our degraded political system, but they will never enjoy 90% approval with the general public.

    Should anything like Nazi Germany begin to develop in this country, the correct solution is to get out. Emmigrate. You can’t fight something like that.

  • Hugin

    I’m not ever running away. If this escalates, I’ll stay and fight. We must stand united.

  • Souris Optique

    Have you looked into emigration? No civilized nation will take you these days unless you have $$$.

  • Anonymous

    Actually, I have, and you’re mostly right. You can also emigrate if you are young and have marketable skills in the right fields.

  • Souris Optique

    …even then, if your spouse doesn’t as well, you’re still screwed. *sigh*
    I’d only leave in order to protect people that I couldn’t bring along anyway. There’s no point.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000204507861 Cathie Rayes

    I’m astounded to say I found the point man. This quote is from an article on AlterNet.

    “[Robert George] has parlayed a 13th-century Catholic philosophy [the natural law theory] into real political influence. Glenn Beck, the Fox News talker and a big George fan, likes to introduce him as “one of the biggest brains in America,” or, on one broadcast, “Superman of the Earth.” Karl Rove told me he considers George a rising star on the right and a leading voice in persuading President George W. Bush to restrict embryonic stem-cell research. . . . Newt Gingrich called him “an important and growing influence” on the conservative movement, especially on matters like abortion and marriage. “If there really is a vast right-wing conspiracy,” the conservative Catholic journal Crisis concluded a few years ago, “its leaders probably meet in George’s kitchen.””

    The article is here: http://www.alternet.org/story/151751/christian_jihad_why_we_should_worry_about_right-wing_terror_attacks_like_norway%27s_in_the_us_?page=entire and it is written by Frank Schaeffer.

  • ThemonTheBard

    And one more wicked thought.

    Some of you have suggested wards of blessing and protection be cast over Washington.

    Why not over the individuals at The Response itself? They are invoking malign powers, to the purpose of amplifying it and sending it out to cause harm. What if those invoked powers couldn’t get into the heads of the people at the gathering?

    Just a wild out-of-the-box idea, and I’ll let the more experienced of you critique it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1127101530 Alan J Sheridan

    One of the most effective ways to stop a curse-casting person is to lock them in a mirror-lined magical construct to prevent their magic from going anywhere. If they don’t do anything malign, then they don’t have any negative repercussions. You’re right, this could stop the energy before it starts.

    Some of the gentler-natured people in our communities would object to this as limiting their freedom, but I’m all in favor of it. There’s a reason we don’t let children play with guns, and that same reasoning applies here, I think. Now let’s take away their toys.

  • Devi Spring

    Oh, I am totally with you! The minute I read this I thought “MIRROR BOX THEM!!”.

  • SonneillonV

    This was my thought too. XD Mirror-boxing has been one of my favorite and strongest warding techniques since I was a witchling.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000204507861 Cathie Rayes

    The more people mirror-boxing, the better! My partner and I have been but clearly we aren’t able to do enough; help would be wonderful.

    ThemonTheBard, you have an interesting idea. We haven’t been approaching it in quite that way… but now, combined with someone else’s comment about invoking these people’s God as well as our own, I’m seriously considering asking Him to make the entire weekend fall flat for all participants. I find that while I am quite serious about doing my own work, I am also not averse to asking for help–or Help.

  • Nocticula Hecate

    Is this similar to a binding box? Please do explain or post a link, thanks so much.

  • http://heathenhall.blogspot.com Joseph

    I still think you haven’t made the case linking Perry to this. They certainly seem to want to glom onto him and his popularity, but there’s no concrete indication that their love is requited. He even seems to be walking back a bit on the whole Response thing, possibly because it looks like the NAM cooks are becoming such a prominent part of it.

    That being said, I’ve been aware of the NAM for quite some time and find them a very real and direct threat. I’m very glad that you’ve posted about that DC40 event, and that plans for pagan reaction are being laid. I personally will do what I can to resist their efforts, both magically and materially. Possibly a counter-event when they get to my state.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1217702073 Awena Llwyndyrys
  • http://heathenhall.blogspot.com Joseph

    Yes, yes. I did manage to read the article. If you had gotten past the headline, you would see that the only thing that Perry did positively vis-a-vis the two pastors who visited them was to ask them to pray over him. There’s a lot about what they said, but nothing about Perry’s reaction.

    The article says that Perry “gave them leading roles”, which is of course nonsense, since he isn’t the person organizing the event. He hasn’t given anyone any roles. More fear-mongering and pre-emptive sniping at a potential GOP front-runner, and for no other reason than to snipe at a potential GOP front-runner. Which is an end unto itself for some people.

    The claim that Perry is using “code words” is more fear mongering. Usually that’s reserved for liberal assertions that someone is a racist without any actual proof. Now it’s being used to assert that Perry is a member of the New Apostolic Movement without any proof. More baseless fear-mongering.

    Bear in mind this is not to say that I approve of the New Apostolic Movement, or that I think they are not a threat. Clearly they are, and clearly there must be a pagan (and more widespread) response on a variety of levels. But this attempt to link Perry with it is simply fear-mongering, seemingly aimed at harming a potential GOP Presidential candidate, and from the evidence yet presented, baseless.

    I will be the first to condemn Perry if solid evidence is given of his support (and a lack of condemnation does not qualify as “support”) for the NAM. But “code words” and made up evidence doesn’t cut it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1217702073 Awena Llwyndyrys

    I can’t dismiss the code words and actions that hint at involvement. I live in a theocratic state and used to be a member of the dominant religion (which also has a GOP frontrunner), so I know about code words and implicit support. I can see right through such curtains. It’s nothing to dismiss. Harder evidence can surely be found, but I wouldn’t dismiss this.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1217702073 Awena Llwyndyrys

    Oh, and he IS arranging The Response, which is not the 51-day seige event (DC40). Is that where you got confused?

    If he’s trying to distance himself from The Response at all, I’d guess that it’s because of the lawsuit against him for it. http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/07/13/atheists-file-lawsuit-against-gov-rick-perry-over-prayer-summit/

    “Eight members of The Response “leadership team” are affiliated with the New Apostolic Reformation movement. The long list of The Response’s official endorsers—posted on the event’s website—reads like a Who’s Who of the apostolic-prophetic crowd, including movement founder C. Peter Wagner.” ~from the Texas Observer article

  • Ananta Androscoggin

    It’s always interesting to hear from Christianist apologists, ain’t it?

  • http://heathenhall.blogspot.com Joseph

    I suggest you look elsewhere, then, because I am about as far away from a “Christianist apologist” as you can get.

    What I am, is unwilling to paint someone as a Christianist just because Christianists endorse him. I require more evidence than such guilt-by-association as you seem willing to indulge in.

  • Verac1ty

    “Non-compromising Light and Understanding”??? Seriously, do these people even hear themselves?? Non-compromise and inflexibilty is what’s got our nation in the complete mess we now find ourselves in and keeps our government from doing its job.

    I will be interested to hear what movements are produced to combat this idiocy (and it does need to be combatted, because a fool’s sword is as sharp as any other).

    Personally, I will mark the days down on my calendar and hold ritual for each state and the District and call for peace and true understanding – understanding which includes all forms of enlightenment.

  • http://twitter.com/chorisschema Corc Hamr

    Our founding fathers (I don’t just mean their leaders, who drafted and led the Revolution) risked their lives for freedom. These modern “prayer warriors” are risking more than magical and energetic links, they’re going to be out there, risking arrest, risking being maybe attacked and beaten. It’s as much a protest as it is a magical act, which makes the magic that much more powerful.

    I can’t get to DC. But I’ll be at my state’s capital on my state’s day. Any prayer warriors there, I’ll protest, I’ll make prayers to my Gods, I’ll risk being attacked, beaten, arrested. If you wanna join me, by all means. Period. End of statement.

  • http://twitter.com/davidsalisbury David Salisbury

    PNC-DC and the DC community’s take on this can be found here: http://www.capitalwitch.com/2011/07/declaring-war-on-columbia.html

  • Christine

    I propose that every pagan that can, on the date thier state is slated to be “prayed for” make an effort to redirect the energy as discussed here. Their website has a full list of dates each state is supposed to be the focus in addition to the DC finish. I’ve got my calendar marked for Indiana on November 3 and plan to appeal to my Civil war ancestors for support.

  • Rua Lupa

    I say, show up and share cookies and talk about being good neighbours (‘love thy neighbour’). I show up to most every event with food to share and everyone has a good time. Join in on the prayers and speak of love and kindness. That’ll get em to think a bit.

  • Rua Lupa

    One suggestion I received discussion was to have pentacles on the cookies and see how long it takes for them to notice. And if asked what was in them say, “oh, chocolate chips, flour, egg, eye of newt.”

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1217702073 Awena Llwyndyrys

    I would appreciate some Pagan site or blog posting a list of the dates up ASAP for the benefit of our planning and for the protection of those who don’t wish to be polluted by the DC40’s Web presence nor give them our hit counts.

  • LunaLynx
  • Gi_prophet

    The way you respond is to laugh and then ignore them. Who cares what they do?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000204507861 Cathie Rayes

    I care, because there’s deep power behind them. They WILL loose that power on the world, and we ARE the intended target. I don’t wish to deal with the chaos that power will cause, so I’m willing to stand up and do something about it.

  • Gi_prophet

    They only have the power that others give to them.

  • Nate

    well, you obviously don’t believe that magic has any effect on the material world, good for you. But for those of us that do this is a somewhat more serious issue than a bunch of nut jobs waving their hands in the air and making a spectacle of themselves.

  • Fritz Muntean

    I think Gi_prophet is pretty much right. I’d say it a little different: ‘Most of their power is derived from the belief and actions of others.’

    I DO believe that magic has an effect on the world. And I believe that’s how magic works. Raving for them or against them makes no difference — it still gives them power.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000204507861 Cathie Rayes

    I used to believe that, Gi_prophet. I used to believe that curses were powerless and nothing could hurt a person who didn’t believe in it…. I used to believe that only God had power and that people are helpless and basically useless, except as begging machines to God who might or might not care to listen.

    Then I learned to send energy. When people 2500 miles away started consistently saying to me, “hey, I really FELT that hug!” I began to understand that human beings, far from being powerless, are actually the source of most of the power around us. When people started saying to me, “What did you DO? I got better!” I started to understand that no God is necessary for us to heal each other.

    This thing we call “magic” is a completely human skill and ability. You feel it every day and you might even take it for granted. Have you ever been in line at the drivers’ license bureau or the post office or even a grocery store and felt waves of anger radiating off someone ahead of you? Have you ever walked into a room with someone who was in such a good mood that you couldn’t help feeling cheery too?

    What the DC40 people are doing builds on that natural human ability, brings concentration, focus, will, intent, and even obsession into the mix. They have many long years of practice behind them, and they are strong, frighteningly strong. They have the ability to hurt any of us, including those of us who don’t believe they can.

  • Ananta Androscoggin

    Yes, we all know how protective laughter works against bombs and bullets, or laws which send out the police or national guard to round us up.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1487003047 Darcie Callahan

    Before I was Pagan, I was Christian, and I was just like the people described here. I would have attended an event like this with anticipation and a thrill that I was making a difference in the world. So what changed me?


    I had a friend who, by the dictates of my religion, was going to hell. I accepted that until one day my friend told me that if I ever got stuck late on campus at night, I could phone him, even at 3 or 4 in the morning, and he would come and walk me home. “I may bitch and curse at you,” he said, “but I’ll still come. I’d rather get up in the middle of the night than read about you in the paper the next morning.”

    Never had anyone else, none of my Christian friends, made an offer like that to me before, and I realized my friend did not deserve to go to hell. Sure, the Bible and everyone around me said he did, but if I were in charge, I could not send him to hell, not for eternity, not even for a minute. But did that mean I was more compassionate than God? But that was not supposed to be possible.

    The dominoes of my belief system started to fall, and kept falling until they were all gone. I decided to build my new belief system from modern psychology and some years later found Paganism (but that is another story).

    These people expect antagonism and fighting back aggressively, but kindness can disarm them, at least the young and thoughtful ones like the me-who-used-to-be.

  • Fritz Muntean

    Actually, there’s nothing at all in the Bible to support the idea that (basically) good people are doomed to perdition simply because they don’t belong to a specific sect or denomination. Quite the contrary, in fact. There’s a technical term, much in use in academic theological circles for the people who promote this kind of thinking, and it’s ‘assholes’. And — this is very important, so please pay close attention — the great majority of Christians, be they ministers, scholars or lay persons, are most definitely NOT assholes.

  • http://oldmoonsisterstars.wordpress.com Apuleius Platonicus

    Mark 16:16: “Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.”

    In Acts 17, Paul tells the people of Athens that they are “in every way very religious.” However, Paul insists that, concerning the Paganismof the Greeks, “In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.”

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1217702073 Awena Llwyndyrys

    And contradicting those verses, Jesus, their god himself, told his disciples that the Pagan Roman centurion would go to heaven, while some of “the sons of the kingdom” would be cast into the outer darkness. (Matthew 8:5-13)

  • http://oldmoonsisterstars.wordpress.com Apuleius Platonicus

    Uh, no. The centurion was praised by Jebus because the centurion expressed blind faith in Jebus. And the take home message of Matthew 8:5-13 is that anyone who does not place total blind faith in Jebus “will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1217702073 Awena Llwyndyrys

    Did I get the wrong Roman soldier story? I don’t remember the bible very well anymore. I remember hearing Christians themselves using a Roman soldier story from the bible to point out that non-Christians are allowed into heaven. Probably the “Faith and not works” Christians, who don’t require baptism or any other rites for tickets to heaven.

  • http://oldmoonsisterstars.wordpress.com Apuleius Platonicus

    Awena: Christians often have a very Orwellian take on their favorite Bible passages. For example, “I am the Way, the Truth, the Life. None comes to the Father except through me,” is often cited as the epitome of everything that is wonderful about Christianity, when in fact it is nothing but a bald-faced statement of religious intolerance.

  • Fritz Muntean

    There you go again — cherry-picking scripture for the odd verse, out of context, that supports your ideology. It looks really lowbrow when high school dropout Christians do it. But even worse when Pagans like yourself, with really good educations, succumb to its temptations.

  • http://oldmoonsisterstars.wordpress.com Apuleius Platonicus

    Fritz, has your account been hacked or something? You and I often (OK, usually) disagree. But I happen to know that you an intelligent, thoughtful fellow. But now you sound like a broken record, and you are not even making a pretense of responding to what I am actually saying.

    I obviously did not “cherry pick” Matthew 8:5-13. Someone else presented this as evidence of a Bible verse contradicting the verses I had previously cited from Mark 16 and Acts 17. My response was simply to point out that (at least in my opinion) Matthew 8:5-13 is not at all contradictory to those other verses.

    And since Christianity, as everyone knows, is a scripturally based religion, there is absolutely nothing “lowbrow” about critiquing Christianity on the bases of its own sacred texts.

    And I am not taking out “odd verses”, nor am I misrepresenting the context of these verses. One could (and people have done so) write whole books on the violent, intolerant passages in the Christian Bible. However, one cannot write even a single sentence on the Bible passages promoting religious tolerance, because no such passages exist.

    In response to:
    “There you go again — cherry-picking scripture for the odd verse, out of context, that supports your ideology. It looks really lowbrow when high school dropout Christians do it. But even worse when Pagans like yourself, with really good educations, succumb to its temptations.”

  • Fritz Muntean

    No, my account hasn’t been hacked. This is the real me.

    The Judaeo-Christian Bible is full of contradictions. Every Biblical scholar in the world, be they Christian or (like me) Pagan, knows this. It’s a really old document, derived from many sources and redacted by a whole lot of different people, who each had their own agendas.

    You can prove or disprove virtually any point of view by quoting a single verse out of its context. This is what those dickheads everybody is being so worked up about are doing. Don’t you do it too!

    I can’t do your reading for you, but if you’re at all curious about what Jesus was all about, it’s not hard to find out. The most straightforward way is to simply ask any good Christian. Yes, I know there are plenty of bad Christians (and Muslims, and Jews, and Pagans) but the good ones are pretty easy to find — get involved in your local Interfaith orgs, or attend the AAR when it comes through DC (or wherever you hang your hat).

    Sorting out what Jesus was (really) teaching from what was larded onto the Gospels in the next couple of centuries can take some time, but the easiest way to do it is to go right to the core of his teachings. Open up Matthew to the 5th chapter and keep reading through the end of the 7th. Yes, I know, there are bits of weird shit here & there, but taken as a whole, isn’t that an amazing piece of work?

  • http://oldmoonsisterstars.wordpress.com Apuleius Platonicus

    Fritz: “You can prove or disprove virtually any point of view by quoting a single verse out of its context. ”

    First of all, I have cited four different scriptural passages in this thread (three of them attributed to Jesus in the Gospels and one of them attributed to Paul in Acts), and not one of the them was taken out of context.

    Second of all, there are plenty more where those came from.

    Third of all, if you really think you can use scripture to prove just any old thing, please compile a list of Biblical passages supporting the notion that Jesus preached tolerance of other religions. But I won’t hold my breath.

  • Fritz Muntean

    Four different scriptural passages, taken out of context. What can I say? Google ‘higher criticism’ for a more erudite explanation of why this practice is suspect.

    And as far as a list of Biblical passages supporting the notion that Jesus preached tolerance of other religions, one first needs to ask ‘what other religions were there?’ Oh — the pagan veneration of the Emperor. I don’t even have to look that one up: Mt 22:21; Mk 12:17; 20:25.

    You can breathe now.

  • http://oldmoonsisterstars.wordpress.com Apuleius Platonicus

    “What other religions were there?” Asks Fritz Muntean. He answers his own question with: “the pagan veneration of the Emperor.”

    First of all, as any real scholar of religion knows, veneration of any living human being, or of emperors living or dead, was always a controversial matter among ancient Pagans.

    Second of all, as any real scholar of religion knows, ancient Paganism was characterized first and foremost by veneration of Gods, not of emperors, even those claimed to have undergone apotheosis.

    Third of all, the Bible passages cited by Muntean concern the old saw “render unto Caesar …” These have nothing whatsoever to do with religious tolerance, as any real scholar of religion would well know.

    In reply to: “And as far as a list of Biblical passages supporting the notion that Jesus preached tolerance of other religions, one first needs to ask ‘what other religions were there?’ Oh — the pagan veneration of the Emperor. I don’t even have to look that one up: Mt 22:21; Mk 12:17; 20:25.”

  • http://paosirdjhutmosu.wordpress.com Djhutmosu Si-Hathor

    >”What other religions were there?” Asks Fritz Muntean. He answers his own question with: “the pagan veneration of the Emperor.”

    First of all, as any real scholar of religion knows, veneration of any living human being, or of emperors living or dead, was always a controversial matter among ancient Pagans….”

    Thank you, Apuleius. I read his response, and though to myself “Why does using that ‘Render unto Caesar” quote feel so…Unimpressive.” You articulated just why. THANK. YOU.

    (For some reason, Disqus won’t let me reply directly to that specific comment.)

  • Fritz Muntean

    There you go — proving a dogmatic belief by the ‘creative’ (ie, non-obvious) citation of isolated scriptural passages.

    It’s been too long since I took a course in rhetoric, so I can’t remember the technical term for what you’re doing here, but it goes something like this:

    Christians believe in the literal truth of every verse in the Bible.

    This verse is in the Bible.

    Therefore, Christians all believe this.

    Fact is, very few of today’s Christians believe that every single verse in the Bible is literally true — or is a direct order from on high.

  • http://kauko-niskala.blogspot.com Kauko

    Actually, you were the one who stated that there was nothing in the Bible to support a certain view. Apuleius then provided a verse that illustrated that view. You then proceed to say, ‘Oh well, throwing statements from the Bible at me doesn’t prove that the Bible says certain things…’

    Since the question you yourself raised was whether or not the Bible could support a certain reading, the issue of whether or not some Christians may or may not accept it as literal truth is irrelevant.

  • http://oldmoonsisterstars.wordpress.com Apuleius Platonicus

    Fritz, you were the one who claimed “Actually, there’s nothing at all in the Bible to support the idea that (basically) good people are doomed to perdition simply because they don’t belong to a specific sect or denomination.”

    Now you are not merely moving the goal-posts, you have sold the team in the middle of the night to another city.

  • http://www.facebook.com/elaposta Elizabeth LaPosta

    I think a good counter response would be to read “The Fifth Sacred Thing”, (can we say “Millennialists”?) and pray that their insanity is cured (yes, paraphrasing Avatar here, sorry I’m a total fan of both).

  • http://sarenth.wordpress.com/ Sarenth

    A cursory look at any of the materials this sect puts out shows their hatred for Pagans the world over. They declare, in writing and in public, that our Gods are our enemies, and that America needs to be retaken, by force, if necessary. Whether or not you believe in magic, their political ambitions, and successes, should be taken seriously. As someone who does, their statements and actions are loaded with negative consequences, both for the nation and for people individually, and especially for Pagans. I think it is high time Pagans of all stripes took a stand against this, both vocally and through our own spiritual workings.

  • Vala

    We have to stand together ALL Pagans, Wiccans, Shamans,Asatru and the whole long list of us:}. The Christian right may not be able to pass legislation against us, bu they can harm us in other ways. I do not put them above commuting violence against us

  • Rua Lupa

    I would invite fellow Christians to pray along side as a show of unity for equal treatment and rights. Not separate ourselves as this causes the us versus them mentality. People of all faiths want to be treated with respect, including those who have had an extremist group claim that they hold their banner. There is always a common ground.

  • Fritz Muntean

    There you go! What an excellent idea! Never underestimate the power of Christian support for liberal/progressive causes.

    I remember a couple of years ago when a rally was being planned here in support of gay marriage. The less observant among us expected a counter-demonstration from those ‘awful homophobic Christians’. Those of us engaged in Interfaith activities knew better. And we were not surprised to discover that the enormous majority of Christians present — high church and low, clergy and laity alike — were on our side of the street.

    Virtually the entire opposition was made up of local ethnics. From Native Americans to Sikhs, from Hassidics to Chinese — Hispanic, Jamaican, Vietnamese, Filipino, Hindu, Muslim — these ethnic communities were out in force, demonstrating against the legalization of same-sex marriage. Some few were Christian, but.

  • Rua Lupa

    I honestly wouldn’t of guessed at the enthic opposition. I find it quite fascinating really.

  • Rua Lupa

    *ethnic* (wow, what a typo!)

  • Greenflame

    I invite interested people to join in a working that some magickal acquaintances and I have been doing since Beltane. We invoke Lady Liberty as Goddess and these American Ancestral Spirits: Thomas Jefferson, Sacagawea, Susan B. Anthony, and Martin Luther King, Jr.

    To see and copy the image we created to support this working, and to read more details of this working, please go to http://www.eternalharvestwicca.org/Magickal_Working_for_America.html

    (This is a temporary website until a dedicated one can be established. This “Magickal Working for America” is not an official part of the Eternal Harvest Tradition.)

    Our methods of working are diverse, but we use the common image as well as a common spell of intent:

    “We call upon all humans to create a life consistent with their true nature, the calling of their hearts, and the highest good of all.

    Grounded in the truth that all humans are created equal, we ask that all humans have the courage, willingness, and clarity of perception to embrace one another’s humanity, to band together to reclaim our governing structures from corrupt interests, and to secure our individual rights.

    We call upon all humans to recognize injustice, inequality, and manipulation wherever it manifests; to call out the perpetrators; and to ensure that wrongdoers are brought to justice that is grounded in compassion, common sense, and fairness.

    It is created as it is spoken.”

  • Charles Cosimano

    In a sense I’m going to enjoy this. The Christians are always claiming their spiritual warfare tactics are more powerful. The Pagans are making the same claim for theirs now. It will be interesting to see who wins.

  • Vala

    I disagree. We are outnumbered on this. they are well rested too. Many pagans and magick users work on things daily. There will be nothing enjoyable about this at all. It will create more chaos to an even higher level. Also bear in mind what this could do to the status quo esp xtians who had no opinion of us. It could turn them against us

  • Seidrlady

    Now now, so ready to give in? Do we know how many they have engaging in this event?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000204507861 Cathie Rayes

    Yes, we are outnumbered and my partner and I, at least, are exhausted. We’ve been working on these issues for years, trying desperately to keep the balance as this hate movement spreads like a plague.

  • Seidrlady

    Our ancestors were confronted with the same challenge, only they had to contend with being murdered, bribed, and/or forced to continue their practice in secret. I look back on what they endured and see them as inspiration to continue onward.

    On one side we can view this as fighting hatred while the other, promoting acceptance. It’s all in how we perceive it. Try to hang in there and never let them take your hope away.

  • Fritz Muntean

    That’s an interesting notion! Pray tell, which of your ancestors had to contend with ‘being murdered, bribed, and/or forced to continue their practices in secret’? I know things like this (alas) happened from time to time to the Jews. But to Pagans?!? Please cite your source.

  • Anonymous

    Given her on-line name, I assume Seidrlady is a Norse heathen. If you are really as ignorant as you claim about the conversion in the north, try reading the sagas of Saint Olaf or his predecessor Olaf Tryggvason. For instance, from St. Olaf’s Saga (in Heimskringla, translated by Lee M. Hollander, p. 309): “He investigated how Christianity was being kept …. and if he found anyone who did not want to abandon heathendom, he drove them out of the land. Some he had maimed, having their hands or feet lopped off or their eyes gouged out, others he had hanged or beheaded, but left no one unchastised who refused to serve God.”

    Or from the saga of Olaf Tryggvason (same source, p. 211), where Olaf Tryggvason is trying to convince Eyvind to convert: “The king bade him to let himself be baptized like others. But Eyvind refused. The king with kind words urged him to accept Christianity, both he and the bishop giving him many reasons for so doing. But Eyvind would not budge. Then the king offered him gifts and great revenues, but Eyvind refused all. Then the king threatened him with torture or death. Still Eyvind would not budge. Thereupon the king had a basin full of live coals brought in and put on Eyvind’s belly, and soon his belly burst.”

    There you have the whole gamut, from attempting to convince through argument, to attempted bribery, to torture and murder, and all in a text meant to show how great Olaf Tryggvason was.

  • http://worksofliterata.wordpress.com Literata

    That’s why framing matters. It also matters in that it is actually possible to do protection without it giving them more attention and energy.

  • Vala

    Sadly I am seeing many pagans NOT taking this seriously!!! It has been seen by thousands now yet only 123 commented? WTF??? IMO we MUST pass this on more on Fb and online. We can’t understate the potential harm of this

  • Fritz Muntean

    What you may be perceiving here is two contradictory responses to this kind of challenge.

    There are those who believe that all of society’s problems are caused by ‘THEM’. And that the solution is some version of ‘GET THEM!’ If you want to do battle with the ‘forces of evil’, it doesn’t matter if you’re a Pentacostal or a Pagan. You’re still feeding this particular beast.

    In contrast, there are those of us who believe the ancient and venerable adage that ‘Energy flows where attention goes’. People like us have been asking, for generations, some version of ‘What if they threw a war and nobody came . . . ?’

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1217702073 Awena Llwyndyrys

    I didn’t see this comment until I said just about the same things. Hehe.

    Retaliative/Counter-Offense is one option, and the one I’d prefer to see last or not at all. Remember “Agora”?

    Protective/Defense is another, and I’ll probably do something in this vein.

    And then there’s Ignoring/Not feeding the trolls, which I will also somehow attempt while doing something protective. I guess I’ll just do defense quietly.

    They’re less the wacky fringers to ignore in the eyes of the rest of the world if all of Pagandom and our allies stands up and shouts back, and more the serious threat, you know? It’s a paradox that they’re doing magic, and yet can’t really draw much power to shape their illusions if we don’t act like they’re able to do any magic. Interesting dilemma, isn’t it?

  • Jason Hudson

    Jason, not to be a stickler, but it seems you misquoted the Declaration of Light by one small but very important word.
    It might seem like a small matter but it changes the meaning of the text in a big way. The statement rejects our actions, not our existence. Please know that I offer this correction in the spirit of a brother.

  • http://www.patheos.com Star Foster

    Oh, so they’re not upset with me but only the fact that I worship Pagan Gods? Thank goodness! For a moment there I was worried!

    By this logic should gay people feel better knowing that they are not hated, only the gay sex they engage in is hated?

    That small change does not make the statement any less disturbing.

  • http://www.wildhunt.org/blog/ Jason Pitzl-Waters

    Your correction, which I’ve noted and made in the post, doesn’t really do much to improve the meaning of the text, or remove the point I made about NAR not having to obey laws they think go against God’s word.

  • Dana

    Don’t they know that to use the tools of the Devil is to open themselves to him? Forcing someone to do something, whether the force is physical or spiritual, is still force. So they are breaking the ‘Golden Rule’ (not he who has the gold rules) to love thy neighbor as thy self. So since this was, according to the Bible, the word of Christ can they still call themselves Christians?

    Someone should tell them that bad wishes always have a way of rebounding to the sender.

  • Fritz Muntean

    Well said, Dana. “Someone should tell them that bad wishes always have a way of rebounding to the sender.” Would that more Christians — and a LOT more Pagans — were wise enough to heed this wisdom.

  • http://paosirdjhutmosu.wordpress.com Djhutmosu Si-Hathor

    When it comes to applying such logic to Christians, I’m reminded of the following saying: “Never teach a pig to sing. It’s a waste of your time and it annoys the pig.”

  • Fritz Muntean

    Pointing out the ‘bad wishes rebound’ wisdom to many of the Pagans on this list seems to produce about the same effect — especially the part about annoying the pig.

  • http://paosirdjhutmosu.wordpress.com Djhutmosu Si-Hathor

    Not all of us have that concept, or the associated reluctance to use aggressive magical methods, in our heritage:

  • Fritz Muntean

    Cool references. Thanks! As you’re no doubt aware, Graeco-Roman magical practice includes a great deal of very similar material. The difference, of course, is that we’ve learned, over the intervening millennia, to leave this angry shit alone.

    Accumulated wisdom of this sort is one of the advantages, I suppose, of having a continuing history of developmental magic — rather than taking on your task of recovering and trying to reconstitute a set of practices and beliefs that have been moribund for such a very long long time.

    I’d say good luck with the ‘aggressive magical methods’ of what you consider your ‘heritage’, but I’m pretty sure that just plain luck isn’t gonna help.

  • Demeisen

    Good thing you elected to inform us all of your secret wisdom garnered through the ages with backing sources and evidence instead of being condescending and explaining fuck all.

    Oh, wait.

  • Fritz Muntean

    Sorry, Demeisen, I’m not sure what you’re asking for here — “Good thing you elected to inform us all of your secret wisdom garnered through the ages with backing sources and evidence instead of being condescending and explaining fuck all.”

    There’s nothing secret about the ongoing continuity between Graeco-Roman and modern European magical practice. Nor is there a lack of popular and well-known examples in European literature (from Apuleius’ ‘Golden Ass’ to Shakespeare’s ‘Macbeth’) of good reasons not to rely on the practice of malefic magic to overcome one’s enemies.

  • Dana

    Sorry, Roman Catholic upbringing.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_KVT7XCGQPPX3TJ6LUIX6HVI3MQ Spunky

    Funny that one of the initiants of this campaign is someone named Cindy – Cynthia is another name for Artemis as Artemis was born on Mount Cynthus on the Island of Delos and is sometimes referred to as Cynthia…maybe Cynthia should change her pagan name before she starts throwing stones at Columbia…

  • http://www.magickal-media.com Alice C. “A.C.” Fisher Aldag

    This blogger has a point http://alisonleighlilly.com/blog/2011/balancing-liberty-and-law-%C2%BB-patheos-com/

    Yes, we should protect ourselves. Yes, we must be careful of protestors who invalidate our rights. Yes, we must give support to candidates who are in favor of religious freedom. But…

    Is it really right to disparage the Christians for invoking Jesus, when we are advocating the invocation of Columbia?

  • http://www.patheos.com Star Foster

    To what intent? Intention is the issue. I have no problem with invoking Jesus to protect our nation and our religious freedom. Which is what Pagans are doing with Columbia.

    I don’t disparage Christians for invoking Jesus, but I take issue when they use violent rhetoric for the purpose of removing my civil rights.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1226891346 Cara Schulz

    Ali doesn’t understand or respect polytheism “polytheistic theology have been about as deep as a kiddy pool compared to the complexities and mysteries of Catholic doctrine I grew up with”

    Thinks that Pagans who honor Columbia are desperate racists and isn’t into land spirits.


    That’s all fine, a person can think what they want. Viva la difference, right? But when your anger or disrespect for something blinds you to what is actually being written or talked about, then it’s not good.

    Looking at what Alison has written, have you really seen Pagans all hyped up to commit violence? Have you seen them eager to do away with Christianity? Or have you seen, over all, a community pulling together to say “This isn’t right, what you are doing. Pluralism and separation of church and state is a good thing.” A community looking to ground the malafic magic sent towards us and ready to be politically active to ensure freedom of religion.

    Have you really, like Ali claims in her comments, seen Star Foster trying to revoke anyone’s right to pray?

    Mostly what’s in Ali’s post (the one you linked to, AC) are out of context (and exaggerated ) jabs at things I wrote over a year ago on Pagan+politics and has NOTHING to do with what is currently happening or being talked about. That…and her disgust towards the goddess Columbia.

    But it’s very unfair of Ali to paint the Pagans like Literata and Hecate as being warmongering nationalists bent on wiping out Christians.

  • http://oldmoonsisterstars.wordpress.com Apuleius Platonicus

    Wow. Even more reason to completely ignore everything that Ali has to say. It’s amazing how one person can be so ignorant.

  • http://paosirdjhutmosu.wordpress.com Djhutmosu Si-Hathor

    I’m reading the comments to Ali’s blog post that you linked to, I find myself annoyed again at the emphasis on the tribe:

    “The United States of America is far too large and diverse, spanning the width of an entire continent and including countless bioregions and landscapes each with their own spirits and gods and each giving rise to their own cultures and communities, to imagine that we could possibly have the same sense of “tribe” as a nation that once applied to our ancestors living in much smaller groups in Europe.”

    To be fair, she does specify Europe, but I feel kinda awkward, at all this “tribe,tribe,tribe” stuff. There was an article elsewhere on Patheos that had a bit of that going on. I’m not saying tribes are bad, but not all pre-Christian European and Mediterranean peoples were tribally-oriented. As a Kemetic, I practice a modern form of the religion of the first nation-state (at least in the West/Near East) in history. The closest thing to a tribal affiliation was the city one lived in, with its local god/goddess. Not terribly germane, but it really bugged me.

  • Thelettuceman

    And it wasn’t so much “advocating the invocation of Columbia” as it was “petitioning Her for the continued adherence to the freedoms that we have”. Whereas these groups are praying to Christ for their triumph of their philosophy over this “pagan goddess”, the individuals specifically drawn from this site are petitioning for protection and defense, not inevitable domination over their enemies. The poster of the blog is white-washing the whole thing in an attempt to take a contentious, moral high-ground.

  • Anonymous

    This whole ‘spiritual warfare’ topic bugs the heck out of me. It strikes me as using the same kind of spin tactics that Fox News uses, but directed towards a subset of the Left. By allowing ourselves to continually get spun up emotionally, we’re kept off-balance so that we can’t address REAL issues. These kinds of xtians have been around since the beginning of xtianity. The only ‘war’ that’s happening is the war in our imaginations. It’s disheartening that so many pagans talk and talk about their ‘warrior’ traditions, but really have no experience with followup. I guess that’s what happens when they’re only experience with battle is World of Warcraft. Here’s some sage advice: don’t pick a fight you can’t finish.

  • Fritz Muntean

    Good for you! Right on!

    And here’s some even sage-ier advice: Don’t pick a fight at all. Especially not with idiots. Remember — Do not meddle in the affairs of assholes. It makes them soggy and hard to light.

  • Thelettuceman

    I just want to point out that I am not a member of the “Left”.

    I HAVE been personally discriminated against due to my religious preference, so I am afraid of what would happen if these “strike first” war-mongers become the highest legal power in the land. If you scream and rage when you hear about people being fired unfairly from a job for being a Pagan, and nothing is done for it, what happens when these people become the ones that make the laws on an overwhelming majority?

    “REAL issues?” I daresay I don’t know what a real issue would be compared to a group of people who are foaming at the mouth attempting to eradicate our HELLISH ways. These groups marginalize us and blame us for all the ills they experience.

    In one swoop you give these people legitimacy by claiming that they “have been around since the beginning of Christianity” (therefor they’re all right?), by claiming that this is all in our “imagination” and – the issue that irritated me enough to post -the insult you’ve given me likening MY Warrior philosophy with a frivolous past-time.

    This battle can be finished. Inaction will only guarantee it will finish in their favor.

  • Anonymous

    Pagans are justifiably grouped on the Left because they’re alternative to the mainstream. They’re certainly not going to be accepted by the Right, no matter how much one agrees with conservative political philosophies. It was a generalization, of course.

    I’ve been reading many many posts, both here and on Facebook where pagans (or whatever) talk about killing monotheism, lopping off the heads of those seen as disagreeing with a spiritual war, and general contempt for those who think that talk of spiritual warfare is ridiculous.

    To be honest, the tone in many of these posts sound not much different than that of other extremists. Monotheism isn’t going away… so get over yourselves.

    I also hear lots of talk talk talk about people who follow a ‘warrior’ tradition. The vast majority of them can’t be taken seriously because they’re usually the same ones who can barely lift their leg up, let alone swing a sword. The biggest part of a warrior tradition is practicing SELF-mastery. I see very little of that among any of the traditions that come under the umbrella of neo-pagan.

    People like to talk a good game, but would rather find a threat in some mumbo-jumbo religious war because then they can continue to sit on their posteriors and cast ‘spells’. This kind of talk comes from people who ultimately have no power.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1226891346 Cara Schulz

    I don’t doubt that some Pagans are saying what you note, but is that the majority sentiment among those looking to respond in some fashion?

    If you want to read a great article on being a warrior, please check out Anne Hatzakis’ article on Ares and Hestia and Social Justice:


  • Anonymous

    Thanks Cara, that article sounds interesting! I’ll check it out!

  • http://oldmoonsisterstars.wordpress.com Apuleius Platonicus

    “Pagans are justifiably grouped on the Left ….”

    In strictly historical terms, “the Left” is comprised of those who oppose the power of Monarchs, landed/inherited aristocracies, and the Church. These were the three defining features of the folks who sat, literally, on the left side of the National Assembly in 1789.

    We no longer have (real) monarchs, nor does the Church any longer wield direct political power. But we still have a Ruling Class defined by its ownership and control of vast amounts of Capital. And even though the days of outright Theocracy are gone, the Right still doggedly defends the Church, while the Left sheepishly defends secularism.

  • Thelettuceman

    “We no longer have (real) monarchs”/”Even though the days out outright Theocracy are gone”.

    For now. It honestly seems like the tide is rising for a return to a theocratic aristocracy.

  • http://oldmoonsisterstars.wordpress.com Apuleius Platonicus

    You are quite right to feel this kind of pessimism for the future. But for now at least we should acknowledge and be thankful for the freedoms we have.

  • Ingrid

    I have been following the DC40 closely, and although I am in South Africa, and cannot be of much help, other than in my prayers to my Beloved Mother, I would like to share this: I was brought up Christian, and know the Bible intensely. Being eclectic, solitary Pagan, this has helped me a lot. I also spend hours with my Mom (a pastor!) comparing notes. She is a VERY open Christian, and we both believe that most actions, like this one, is man-inspired, thus saying that their God is no where near this action, and that it is the man-made need for ego boosting and power that triggers notions like this under the cover of Christianity. Therefor, our joint effort in dedicating all of my fellow Pagans in this time, will be that the God of my Mother, and my Beloved Goddess Mother, take hands, and expose these hooligans for who they truly are, intollerant selfish egotistical humans, who I think, if you look closely, has NO relationship with the God they proclaim. May you be safe, may you be blessed, may the light of Gaia rise from the very earth you walk on, and protect you! This I will send you, daily in my devotions! RCM

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SXLE3YXLSQV54YZYNNSQJDMNO4 WonderWitch, Psychedelic Druid

    Ian and all, an Idea…Rather than meeting the Far Righties fist-to-fist as it were with Magick, it might be better to re-direct their energies…and even to leave them alone where they are directed in a GOOD way. It takes a lot less energy to “noodge” someone or something rather than to clash shields and do that manly struggle thing. I’m thinking Aikido for those of you who know about it. GREAT schtuff !

  • http://throughthehiddendoor.wordpress.com/ Eric

    Some have thought this as well, and I agree. I think the energy that they raise should be redirected. However, I believe that some pagans will merely scoff at the Christians and state that they have no power. This is ignorance at its greatest. Redirect their hatred to something more positive. It can be done /shrug The Aikido metaphor is a great one!

  • Hieronyma Jerome

    I just wanted to stop in and let you all know that this metaphor got me thinking about what kind of response might be formed to these people. I finally got a chance to write down some ideas that it gave me. I think I may have at least one possible plan. Thank you for the inspiration. http://hieronyma.org/2011/08/12/response-to-dc40/

  • http://throughthehiddendoor.wordpress.com/ Eric

    What frightens me about this is that some may feel the need to do something more physical. The words that the speaker uses in the advert, shield, lead men, they are all war terms. It may be that we will have another Giffords incident, but more world wide. Funny that I’ve been having dreams of magical warfare before this was brought to my attention. I hope such a thing will not happen, but with extremists like this and others in the world it may indeed come to such a thing. How shall we be looked at in history? What will our future ancestors think of us? Think of them? Will this be the dawn of another witchcraft trials incident? Or even worse a nation-wide inquisition of witches and pagans? Shall we go through another Red Scare in our generation? Let us pray that we will not.

    I don’t think it should be just local activism, though that would be the greatest response, I feel that nationwide activism would be healthier for the Land and for the community as a whole. Pagans may not have a universal dogma that binds us all together, but we do have a sense of community and companionship. Through that we will be strong and through that we can counter act these extremist’s prayers (or magic, even though they don’t realise it). Let us not move forward with hatred, but peace.

  • Baruch Dreamstalker

    “Will this be the dawn of another witchcraft trials incident? Or even worse a nation-wide inquisition of witches and pagans? Shall we go through another Red Scare in our generation?”

    I doubt that things will get this dire because the existential threat to us is no longer from Communism but from Islamism, and it’s not easy to tie a Witch to Muslim terrorism. But that doesn’t mean NAR and its ilk shouldn’t be opposed. Are we going to hang back and hope they run out of steam? Or act, each on hir own path, to oppose them?

  • http://throughthehiddendoor.wordpress.com/ Eric

    I think the time is to act. Sitting around doing nothing does nothing for the community. But this is not just a problem for pagans, it is also a problem for homosexuals, Catholics, the Jewish. We all have to band together against this and not react in a malicious way. That is exactly what they are expecting of the community.

  • Trinity Venus

    I saw this posted on Facebook. I am concerned that this will go from passive prayer from the Christians to another Burning Times. Yes, belief is a powerful thing, and works in many different fashions. If things go bad, how do we defend ourselves?

  • Hieronyma Jerome

    I think I may have at least one possible plan. What do you think about this?

  • Ellinad

    How many followers does this obviously faking, overly dramatic idiot have? We cannot change the bible thumpers out there. They are not enlightened people so I would not even attempt to change or reform them. We can however change the views and educate people that are more open minded and truly follow the way of Christ, which is to accept and understand.

  • CNA132

    I’m game on the Michigan end of things…. tell me what we are doing and I will be there! and I can get a few more to come along, i’m sure of it. This scares me because those that learn from their past are doomed to repeat it and we DON’T need another witch trial of any sort.

  • Joy


    This is my spiritual warfare outlooks:

    I became totally dependent on God’s supply of strength and grace which He offered me daily. And then it happened. The songs of worship and praise started to flow out of me. Since I couldn’t physically do much more than sit at my piano and sing or numerology reading God’s Word, I began to develop an incredible intimate relationship with God. My love for Him grew deep as I would prop up my Bible on the piano and literally sing the Word and worship Him for hours.

  • Anonymous

    I’ve been out on the DC40 website doing some reasearch. Apparently, they have moved all their activity information to “location number 2”. Does anyone have any idea what the heck that means? Can anyone find this alternate location? I’d love to read what they have there.

  • Brother Butterball

    I have been following and studying christian spiritual warfare for 20 years or more now. First, it may help to define what they do. Spiritual warfare is based upon bible verses admonishing christians to bind the strong man. Some christians assume this means demons. Others define the strongman as being sin. Pentecostals involved in spiritual warfare, pray for binding the demons
    around people and geographical areas. They pray for demonic strongholds
    to be pulled down from above various cities. For this they cite another bible verse telling believers that we war not against flesh and blood, but against powers and principalities and spiritual wickedness in high places. Finally,
    the christians pray for the holy spirit and gods holy angels to be loosed,
    often referred to as binding and loosing, and speak the truth to those in spiritual darkness. Based on those two bible verses I alluded to christians formed the basis for the much talked about spiritual warfare.
    What is most effective? I found mirror spells, mirrored box spells, long term
    candle rituals, pyramid power, runic workings, and witches bottles all were effective and had results. The important thing to keep in mind is that they
    the christians, seek to erode spiritual energies. Any magical working that generates and radiates energy over time will be most effective.
    Hope this was helpful to many.