Mac: “It would suggest that I could not commune by prayer and spirit with Christians who are say, in California, or in Israel, and so on. It may not have the benefit of person to person contact, but Warren and those like him appear to completely discount the benefits of communing with the body of Christ by spirit rather than by physical presence.”
Now that paragraph shows the confused thinking typical of Macs position. Is he saying he cant commune by ‘Spirit’ with believers or that he can? I would just say, Mac you are not Paul!!!! There is nothing in scripture to suggest that virtual congregations can take the place of literal ones.
Like a spiritual child (remember Jesus said become as children….?) we MUST be members of a spiritual family, without that we are like kids who live on the street- we may survive but we will not be healthy.
The bible (in Ephesians) seems to suggest exactly this, that the church provides Knowing how you love the KJV get a load of this- From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. (EPh 4:16)
But Mac, I am still concerned about your own personal position. Do you trully believe as you said at the begining of this debate that chruchgoing christians are somehow less spiritual than nonchurchgoers? Do you wait for a church that God will provide or are you firmly of the belief that church is not for you? You sound more and more confused……
Just how do I demonstrate being ‘part of the body of christ’ without being part of a local expression of it?
Isolated OT saints were rarely totally isolated- Job had his friends, David his followers. But, those that were isolated did not choose that isolation, and did not remain in it all their lives. They craved the body as every true Christian will. This world does not charm us, and we are happiest when we are with likeminded believers- not to say that we shouldnt have friends who are not Christians. We are to be ‘in the world but not of it’.
I am concerned for your negative experiences of church Mac, your comments ‘When I was in one of the worst moments of my life, what believing friend came and edified me and helped me sustain my faith? Not a one.’ to me reveal much pain.
I have been fortunate to have many a friend who like Jonathan to David have helped me to find strength in God. May God give you such friends and such a church. If there is anything I or other online buddies can do to try and make up for the lack, do let us know. But sadly, there is something conveyed by eyeball to eyeball contact that I dont think comes accross online. The reason I am pursuing you this much Mac is that I genuniely like you as a person, and believe God has not finished with you yet.
God is the source of our help, but he often uses the church to deliver it.
I am glad to hear you have some Christian friends. There is yet hope! Maybe Mac there is an embryo church in some of your christian friends, but unless there is a God appointed leader in your midst you will need help from outside to cause that to come to birth.
Am I to take it that you are desirous to be gathered in again? If that is so, then my flicker of hope for you grows to a gentle glow!!!
Do you want to be in a church or not?
What worries me most about all this is the arrogance shown by some unchurched- for example one of Macs readers, Annie said “No matter what anyone says to me, I will remain unscathed and confident about being unchurched and non denominational. ”
No matter what anyone says…. how independant is that!?!?!
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