Discussion with Michael Brown on Authentic Fire & how to disagree amicably

Discussion with Michael Brown on Authentic Fire & how to disagree amicably December 5, 2013

Yesterday I appeared for the second time on Michael L Brown’s radio show. You can download the MP3 here.

I have to say that meeting Dr Brown online has been one thing I’ve been very pleased came out of the Strange Fire discussion. He is a good man, as we discussed on his show he and I would probably disagree about a bunch of stuff, but what unites us far outweighs that which divides.  I believe that a new effort towards unity is vital now, both between various different types of biblical sane charismatics, as well as between charismatics and cessationists.

Brown’s new book Authentic Fire is a really great read, and I encourage you to get ahold of it. Here is how I endorsed it after reading it avidly:

Michael Brown demolishes the weak arguments outlined in John MacArthur’s Strange Fire book and conference. He does so robustly but without resorting to divisive or schismatic language. Graciously Brown invites  Cessationists to understand the biblical reasons why charismatics believe what we do. Charismatics are also reminded that we do need to be more discerning as there are indeed unhelpful extremes in our movement.
This book will help you think through these issues. It will fill charismatics with renewed confidence to boldly follow our convictions. It should also help cessationists appreciate that the Charismatic Movement does have something to teach the broader Church, even as we also have much to learn from others.

We talked about how Martyn Lloyd-Jones was in many ways the unwitting father of Newfrontiers, the largest charismatic group in the UK.  We agreed that we can all learn from a range of servants of God from different backgrounds.

We both believe that not all cessationists are angry and hostile towards us. I mentioned my discussions with Steve Camp and Doug Wilson as examples of brothers exploring issues they disagree about with grace and a drive towards true understanding.  He also mentioned some of the debates he has had with people who love the whole body of Christ.

Jesus died for all of us.

Lets love the whole church, his body, warts and all.


Download MP3 (I am on from 30 minutes into the show)

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  • Young Calvinist

    You are guys patting each other on the back and look for assurance that everything is OK. It is not OK. There is no baby in Charismatic bathwater and deep in your heart of hearts you know it.

    • Sorry brother. Deep in our hearts we know quite the opposite. For someone who claims no prophetic insight is possible, you claim to know a great deal of people’s inner thoughts! I don’t know how you see cessationism as biblical, but I trust there is, as the post says, more we can agree upon than not. For instance, not only the historic creeds, but even more modern versions, such as the Lausanne Conference’s SoF is affirmed by evangelicals of many stripes. Best to you.

    • How many charismatics do you actually know? How many charismatic churches have you attended? How many charismatic books have you read? How many charismatic sermons have you listened to? Clearly ALL of them if you think there is no good in any of them!

      • Young Calvinist

        I numbered your questions:
        1) 87, or so
        2) 11
        3) about 10 or slightly more
        4) too many to count

        Adrian, have you watched Phil Johnsons talk titled “Is There a Baby in the Charismatic Bathwater”? If not, I encourage you to do so you will understand why I say that there is no baby in your Charismatic waters.


        • It really is too bad that you’ve interacted with all those Charismatics and seen no fruit or gifts of the Spirit. But watching Phil’s talk saying there is no baby, no benefit or reality, to Charismatic faith and practice won’t change someone like Adrian or myself, or anyone who has seen such fruit and gifts, both in the scriptures and today. Hearing a man teach, persuasively even, that manned flight is impossible won’t persuade the men who have flown. I hope you have more fruitful interactions with folks who practice the gifts in the future.

  • paula.bs

    On a lighter note… Adrian truly believes in modern miracles if he states he ‘appeared’ on a radio show! Bless.