Is Sin, Sin? Is All Sin The Same?

Is Sin, Sin? Is All Sin The Same? April 30, 2018

Have you heard someone say, “Sin is sin?” Is that true? What does the Bible say?

It Only Takes One

Sin is sin. You’ve probably heard that from some Christians when speaking about a certain sin someone or they committed. To begin with, the Apostle John tells us what sin is, writing that “Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness” (1 John 3:4), but thankfully, Jesus Christ “appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin” (1 John 3:5). For certain, “All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death” (1 John 5:17), however all unforgiven sin leads to death since that is what the wages are (Rom 3:23a). Of course, that’s totally unnecessary because we can be “justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus” (Rom 3:24). Sin, even one sin, would be enough to condemn a person to hell, but God “presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith” (Rom 3:25). That not only takes one sin away…it takes them all away.

Degrees of Judgment

When you read the Old Testament, you can see that not every sin or crime had the same punishment. A person who stole could pay restitution to the victim (Ex 22:1-4), but for someone who murdered another person in cold blood, restitution would be impossible; therefore, they must pay with their own life. Even before the Mosaic Law, God said, “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image” (Gen 9:6). This shows us how much God values life, so not all sin is equal. Some sins are infinitely worse and deserve a more fitting judgment. In the theocracy that Israel lived under, stealing from fellow citizens was considered a punishable crime, but not requiring death, but restitution. Stealing is breaking one of the Ten Commandments, but stealing is not as bad as adultery or worse, murder. One sin is not equal to another, therefore, sin is not sin, but each sin is different, although many may be related to the same thing. If I sinned and stole my brother’s pen at church, and then the next day, stole his car, can we really say about these two things, “Sin is sin?” Absolutely not! One can be rectified; the other may land me in jail.

Missing the Mark

The thought that, “Sin is missing the mark,” is fairly accurate because our standard of entering the kingdom is perfection. The Apostle John was told to “not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near” and to “Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy” (Rev 22:10-11). Jesus says, “I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done” (Rev 22:12), so trusting in Christ is essential. Why? Because no unrighteousness person can ever enter the kingdom, so what do we do? We must trust in Christ for our perfection, and it is so, as the Apostle Paul writes: “For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Cor 5:21). God supplies what He demands…and that is righteousness of Christ. Jesus Christ is our righteousness, and that’s why it’s good news, because in the kingdom, “nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life” (Rev 21:27). One sin is enough to spot our garments, but Jesus’ blood washes that all away. Like the old hymn says, “Even the vilest offender who truly believes, That moment from Jesus a pardon receives.”

Obvious Sins

Even though Christians may feel that there are a lot of grey areas, there are sin’s that are plainly listed in the Bible. Paul shows us what the obvious fruits of the flesh are, including “sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these,” but then Paul adds, “I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God” (Gal 5:19-21). It is not my personal opinion that “the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Cor 6:9-10). Many are still battling these pulls of the flesh, but they have put their trust in Christ. You cannot wait to “get right” and then come to Christ. You must come to Christ with your burden and find your rest in Him. We can’t do anything at all without Christ (John 15:5), and I have discovered, “nothing” is not a little something.

Conclusion

Please do not misunderstand me. I am not judging anyone. I am too busy judging myself. God’s Word judges and He alone will bring everyone into account for everything done and idle word. I am no better than anyone on earth, saved or lost. I am only better off, but even that is due to God’s grace and not anything I did (Eph 2:8-9). Gifts are not earned…they are freely given, so who can boast (1 Cor 4:3-4)? I can’t. Today, if you will hear His voice, put your trust in Christ. Today is the best of days to be saved (2 Cor 6:2), because Christ may return at any moment, or death may come, and then there will only be judgment (Heb 9:27; Rev 21:12-15). My pray for every unsaved person reading this is that they would repent and be saved, and would enter the kingdom of heaven as perfect as Christ Himself. Then, not even death itself can separate you from God (John 11:25-26; Rom 8:38-39).

Article by Jack Wellman

Jack Wellman is Pastor of the Mulvane Brethren Church in Mulvane Kansas. Jack is a writer at Christian Quotes and also the Senior Writer at What Christians Want To Know whose mission is to equip, encourage, and energize Christians and to address questions about the believer’s daily walk with God and the Bible. You can follow Jack on Google Plus or check out his book Teaching Children the Gospel available on Amazon.

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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • Salvatore Anthony Luiso

    You could also mention the following passages of the Scriptures in support of your argument:

    Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
    –Matthew 5:19

    Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:
    Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
    But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.
    And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
    But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.
    –Matthew 11:20-24

    Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
    –Matthew 23:23

    And that servant, which knew his lord’s will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
    But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
    –Luke 12:47-48

    • Jack Wellman

      Beautifully supportive Scriptures, and these should have been included. Thank you Mr. Luiso. Great additions sir.

      • pud

        Your stupid ancient book is not evidence for itself.

        • Your inane comments are evidence. Of what? boredom maybe?

          • Jack Wellman

            I think you’re right about Pud. She has nothing better to do, and being anonymous, she can hide behind her generic image. Pray for her. She is so lost & confused.

        • Delon Duvenage

          actually it is , its the only book in the world with a 100% success rate in predicting the future , that is the very reason why the writers of the Bible went to such extraordinary lengths to write in a code that is difficult to decipher so that only those to whom God wants to reveal it can actually understand the predictions
          But if you are really interested why don’t you look up Amazing Discoveries website , watch a few of their videos online (free) and start to learn

          • pud

            LOL! You are so gullible and stupid! Your book predicts NOTHING!

            I don’t do stupid retarded idiotic youtube nonsense…that includes alien abductions, flat earth and your religious idiocy

  • Carlos Santiago

    What an important discussion to have because sin and repentance are often misunderstood concepts. There are considerations and consequences of sin to both to God and our brothers and sisters here. I would not want to set myself at the authoritative judge of my brother or sister. The Old Covenant was a list of over 600 laws that was a layman’s guide to God’s will for various reasons, dietary, ceremonial, worship, treatment of your neighbor etc. The Hebrew and Greek languages give the best pictures of sin and repentance rather than our English translation. . Hamartia (sin) are those things that cause us missing the mark, to miss the fullness of God’s perfect design for our lives to flourish. Metanoia(repentance) is not flailing on the ground with self-hatred but renewing your mind in a fresh direction towards the Creator and His Ways. Isaiah 43 tells us: Behold, I am doing a new thing; now it springs forth, do you not perceive it? I will make a way in the wilderness and rivers in the desert. The New Covenant for the Gentile brought a fulfillment of the law through Jesus Christ, superseding the over 600 laws of the Old Covenant. The New Commandment Jesus told us is loving one another; neighbor and God. Paul (previously known as Saul who had participated is the stoning of Stephen and may have witnessed Jesus crucifixion) called himself “the chief sinners” but was known as the apostle of liberty. Paul tells us in Hebrews 8:13 In speaking of a new covenant “He makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.”

    • Jack Wellman

      Thank you kindly Mr. Santiago. You always add wealth to our knowledge. Thank you sir.

      • pud

        No he doesn’t…he lowers the collective IQ of your entire flock of delusional gullible bumpkins

        • Delon Duvenage

          and your silly attempt at insulting everyone is a sign of your great intelligence ?

      • pud

        You have nothing but contempt for “knowledge”

        • Delon Duvenage

          you see pud..ding you are all talk , but you are scared of the devil

    • pud

      You are not sane

      • Luke Thomas

        lol you just find every Christian comment and call them crazy. After 8000 comments like this I wouldn’t worry about Carlos’ mental health, there seems to be a more pressing matter.

        • pud

          I’m on a tireless mission. It is an empirical demonstrable FACT that every comment by a religious lunatic proves they are indeed “crazy” Care to challenge me on this?

          • Luke Thomas

            It is demonstrable that empiricism is crazy (via Berkeley/Hume). Do I care to challenge you? No thanks, I only debate rational people not dogmatists. “Do not throw pearls before swine” etc.

          • pud

            Funny but it was all those “empiricists” that built your computer so you can cowardly back away from a fight you would surely lose…never witnessed an invisible undetectable deity create one out of nothing via an incantation ….you probably have…LOL

          • Luke Thomas

            Okay, go for it. Give me your best argument. Since you are the historical and philosophical anomaly, you should logically have the burden of proof. Please prove to me why God does not exist.

          • pud

            It’s late but I’ll get you started…

            First it is you who bears the burden of proof as it is you (crazy person) who is making the positive claim

            However…I’ll still accept the challenge

            1. Which of the thousands of “gods” are you talking about?

            Then you must accurately define terms…

            1. Define “god”

            2. Define “exist”

            then I’ll show you how crazy you must be….tomorrow as it’s late

          • Delon Duvenage

            is pud short for pudding ?

          • Luke Thomas

            lol you challenged me to debate but you want me to do all the work. I don’t have to define anything for you, make your assertions or don’t. Yeah, starting out a discussion with indictments of insanity really aren’t charitable. Maybe you should bow out because you really don’t seem to understand how this works.

          • pud

            I will gladly do the work but before anything can proceed a clear definition of terms must be met.

            Since it is you who has some image of this “god” thing then only you can provide the exact definition

            And since “exist” is critical to the rational argument “proof” I will offer, you must also define what it means to “exist” so there is no misunderstanding

            That’s how it works skippy

          • Luke Thomas

            Okay, I’ll oblige.

            God: The creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.

            Exist: To have being.

            – Skippy

          • pud

            I’ll accept your definition of “god” but you need to do better defining “exist”

            You cannot say “to have being” as that’s akin to saying “to have existence” You need to define “being” You can’t just throw out some synonyms word. I want to know exactly what defines exist…How we know something exists vs, doesn’t exist. What are the parameters required to exist?

            This is key

            As soon as you clarify that I’ll wrap this up and you can tell them all you won’t be attending whatever brand of cult church you currently are deluded by

          • Luke Thomas

            I’m assuming you have a better definition for existence?

          • pud

            Your answer is a non answer.

            Yes I do.

            We know something “exists” when it has the defining characteristic of “shape” Without “shape” “contour” “boundaries” etc a “thing” is indistinguishable from the background of space.

            As an example…a “ball” exists…we could put a ball in orbit and because it has shape and contour it is separate from the background of space. If it didn’t have shape or contour it would be indistinguishable from the background of space and therefore not exist

            There are 2 states for lack of a better word…..something “exists” having shape and contour and a “concept” which does not exist but describes the relationship between things that do exist.

            “Justice” is a concept…it doesn’t actually “exist” but it describes the relationship between objects (people) that do exist.

            So it follows that ONLY “objects” exist…everything else is a concept which does not actually exist

            Does your invisible friend have “shape”? Yes or No?

          • Delon Duvenage

            so according to your theory “air” does not exist

          • pud

            Air is comprised of actual molecules and water vapor which do have actual shape therefore do exist. You should stay out of this conversation so you don’t get hurt

          • Delon Duvenage

            why ? so what you are saying is that the devil doesnt exist ?
            That the devil has no power here on earth , that the devil is not the king on earth at this time ?

          • pud

            LOL dude! Demonstrate that a “devil” exists! Try doing some honest research! “satan” was entirely invented by the early church! INVENTED to scare you simpletons into putting more in the collection plate!

          • Delon Duvenage

            yet you refuse to answer my question directly , DO YOU OR DO YOU NOT BELIEVE THAT SATAN IS THE RULER OF THIS WORLD CURRENTLY A SIMPLE YES OR NO THANK YOU
            because we both know you are too chicken sh** to invoke the one deity that will do you harm if you mock him , you coward

          • pud

            I do not “believe” anything…only simple minded idiots like yourself “believe” shit they cannot demonstrate. You need psychiatric help son.

          • Delon Duvenage

            so you are too scared to take on a “mythical” being by challenging him ? he is a myth , so what harm can there be in challenging his authority ?

          • Delon Duvenage

            seeing as you are too scared to state that a mythical being (the devil) is not the ruler on this world I think you are the one that needs psychiatric help , you have a big mouth , but you are scared of a “fairy” if we use your perception of things lamo

          • Delon Duvenage

            just because you do not have the apparatus to measure God does not mean He doesn’t exist , it is clear by the interaction between various forces on this planet that there is definitely more going on than meets the eye , you are in the middle of the greatest war ever fought and you are telling me you don’t believe that the commanders of the two opposing armies exist , lol you truly are the delusional one here

          • pud

            There are many many things going on that we do not fully understand….simpletons stop there and say “gawd did it” while rational people continue to investigate refusing to simply give up and ascribe supernatural nonsense to everything they can’t yet explain

            War? In your delusional head only.

            If you can’t show it, you don’t know it. What total garbage idiocy….a titanic celestial war over one tiny planet…give me a fucking break! What a ridiculous “god” you have who would spend time on such a stupid sci fi show! Grow up!

          • Delon Duvenage

            stop skirting the question , and admit that you fear the devil

          • pud

            I cannot continue with an idiot. cheers!

          • Delon Duvenage

            so you admit defeat ? you cant challenge a mythical being , lmao

          • pud

            This is the most stupid thing I’ve ever read. Everyone who wasted their time reading it is now more stupid because of you.

            I don’t “challenge” unicorns, leprechans or fairies either

            good bye dummy

          • Delon Duvenage

            oh so you are scared of unicorns , leprechauns and fairies too ?
            and here you are making fun of us for fearing God ?

          • Delon Duvenage

            so simpletons say God did it ? and intelligent people like you say NOTHING did it , wow , how could we not bow to you greater intelligence , i mean i see the light now , NOTHING made everything , bwahahahaha

          • Luke Thomas

            Boy, are you insufferable. Try to have a shred of civility and you might appear to be a quarter decent person.

            You clearly only had a problem with my definition of being because you have a very specific and ad hoc definition of it.
            1. Does your mind exist? What shape or contour can we say of that? Does morality exist? What shape can be said of right and wrong? Does life exist? There is nothing about the shape of something living that differs necessarily from something that is immediately dead.
            2. If a concept only describes relationships it can not prescribe relationships. For example, there is no way to conclude “you should not believe in God” from “you do not believe in God.” From what do you take your prescription?
            3. Yes, indeed. He does have shape in the person of Jesus Christ who was present on Earth from 1 AD to 33 AD (roughly) and everywhere in the Eucharist. 🙂

            Is that supposed to be your proof? Do you really only believe in things that you see? Do you believe in China or the moons of Jupiter?

          • Luke Thomas

            Read Berkeley and see what is the end of positivist thought? It’s reductionism and solipsism.

          • pud

            Metaphysical speculations…LOL…OK, lets talk about the best color for a unicorn shall we?

          • Delon Duvenage

            always white , you don’t know what a unicorn really is do you

          • pud

            No, it is not MY definition it is the ONLY rational definition. Cite me anything that exists that doesn’t meet the criteria I outlined

            1. No…The idea of “mind” is a concept. You have a brain (well that’s a subjective call) that has shape and contour…your brain exists. It functions via various chemical and electrical processes. Those interactions between things that exist…chemicals, electrons etc….describe what you call mind or consciousness etc. “Mind” and “consciousness” are concepts..they are descriptions of what physically takes place

            2. There is no such thing as “free will” everything is deterministic following an infinite causal chain back to the big bang. I don’t derive oughts from is. That’s a senseless argument

            3. Bullshit. There is no actual historical evidence whatsoever for any “jesus” ever existing. NONE. It is a make believe story for the credulous and simple minded

            I do not “believe” in anything. I accept certain propositions to degrees of certainty based upon evidence. There is a great deal of evidence for China and the moons of Jupiter so I provisionally accept that both exist and remain open to evidence showing that they don’t. This is how rational people think. They do NOT accept HEARSAY, ancient STORIES, MYTHOLOGY, personal testimony or unsubstantiated text from no name authors claiming physical impossiblities

            You will lose…tap out now

          • Luke Thomas

            Lol no. It’s an ad hoc definition which allows you to beg the question of the argument. Only material things exist by your definition, obviously even if spiritual things did exist your definition of existence would exclude those things. You are committing a logical fallacy.

            1. Okay, so if you want to take that route? Who cares? If only material things exist and responses are only predetermined physical responses, why not kill myself? My life has no meaning, no life has any meaning. The world is a worthless bunch of atoms and the universe is cruel and uncaring. If you are going to say God is dead, at least be consistent like Nietzsche was.
            2. Then why waste time on poorly conceived insults for me when your life is meaningless and everything is predetermined? lol You say I shouldn’t believe in God. Why shouldn’t I? Just because you think there isn’t one doesn’t mandate me to your standards of “reality.” Any argument is an ought, why don’t you demonstrate why I SHOULD believe anything?
            3. Now that is actually a stupid thing to say. Josephus, Tacitus, among other historians of that era mention Christ specifically as well as his followers and all the ruckus he caused for the Roman Empire. Saying otherwise is just ignorant. Seriously, no one takes that ridiculous argument seriously anymore. Read some Hitchens or an atheist worth the effort.

            Well, I could list plenty of evidence for God but I know you would rebuke it off-hand because you already have a preconceived idea about what qualifies as evidence. For you evidence is only evidence insofar as it is positivist and citing miracles and my witness of divine healings and etc. will have no weight with you like they would have with a rational person because you are completely a dogmatist. You will arrogantly presume your premises despite reality and close yourself off to logic which points otherwise.

            Considering your definition of existence, you can’t (with the kind of certainty you demand) prove that the definition you are using is correct. Because science is just the study of the aggregate. These measurable things are physical but how can you say that you are sure that nothing non-physical exists? You are not omniscient and since you can only know part of what there is to know, your evidence will always be incomplete. No, if you applied the same standard you do to God you would go around on the internet and post thousands of comments about how crazy the people who believe in Heliocentrism are. What kind of evidence can you provide for that? Hearsay and stories based on the authority of others. You are no astronomer. Everything that we know and believe comes based on the authority of other people and presuppositions we have every time we get out of bed in the morning. But everything you have said reveals an incredible ignorance of just the textual validity of the Scripture and historical veracity of the events documented. There are thousands and thousands of manuscripts only a hundred years or so after writing while Plutarch has just a few manuscripts and thousands of years after the original date of writing. You apply an incredible double standard, simply because you have already made up your mind about the conclusion. But like I said “pearls before swine.” If you wish to continue, fine. I just don’t want to waste anymore time with someone who doesn’t even care to learn the basics about this stuff.

          • Delon Duvenage

            You think you are rational ? your behavior certainly does not come across as rational in anyone’s book , already you have said enough to cause you massive problems in any court of law , your threats and insults go beyond normal , and it would be very easy to find you , you think the internet does not keep tabs on it’s users ? think again

          • pud

            You strike me as an obsessive psychotic. Are you threatening me? Bring it on. Bad enough that you’re so stupid as to challenge your better but to issue an overt threat because you had your ass handed to you is crossing a line son. You will be reported.

          • Delon Duvenage

            you have already been reported

          • Delon Duvenage

            I don’t mind a decent conversation with a decent human being but you are only here to insult and take out your frustrations and this is not the time or the place

          • pud

            Oh NO!!! Watch me tremble! You are a fucking lunatic. A stupid, ignorant, cowardly, pyschotic mental case.

            There will be no further response from me. Go bang your head against the wall and clang some pots and pans together. LOL

          • Delon Duvenage

            and you are a waste of time , don’t bother replying I am placing you on ignore

          • pud

            Your last reply disappeared.

            My definition of “exist” is NOT a logical fallacy it is the ONLY rational argument for what we observe in the universe. If you wish to falsify it please provide an example of something that “exists” that does not meet the qualifications I outlined.

            Further…I did not finish….As I was saying, only OBJECTS exist. “Things” are only OBJECTS or CONCEPTS…there are no exceptions. If it is a concept (like all gods) then it doesn’t exist but is a relationship between two or more objects that DO exist.

            If a “thing” exists then it is an object subject to all the laws that govern objects in the universe which would include your “object god” which would be just another thing subservient to space, time and the laws of physics….in other words just another part of the universe no matter how much more advanced or complex compared to you or me. As such “he” (that always cracks me up) would be subservient to the universe, defined by and subservient to space and no different than a UFO alien none of which could be the “creator” of that which they are subject to.

            If you find no meaning for your life without a celestial dictator in it then I feel very sorry for you. Inventing a creator god doesn’t add value to anyones life nor does it give it purpose or meaning. If you choose to view your one an only life as just a door mat to wipe your feet on before you travel on to the real life in the beyond…well, pity you.

            I don’t care for your stupid philosophers or philosophy by nitwits.. The truth is arrived at by rational argument and not by puking word salad all over the place

            NO! There is NO actual historical evidence for any “jesus” ever existing. The 3 popular names you gave WERE NOT witness to anything! They wrote of your christian CULT which no one denies began around the time these historians wrote

            I don’t want you or anyone to BELIEVE anything! I would prefer that you BELIEVE nothing and only provisionally accept given propositions based upon evidence!

            All “belief” is equal and equally stupid. It requires no evidence to “believe” anything. “Belief” in one superstition is just as absurd as “belief” in another and all “beliefs” are ridiculous versions of “faith” which is the most dishonest position anyone can take

          • Luke Thomas

            No, someone can have a wrong definition and it isn’t begging the question but you cater your definition to necessarily exclude the object of debate which is begging the question. But we are just getting hung up in unimportant things when I have already said, obliging your definition, that Jesus Christ can be historically recognized.

            Tacitus’ Annals: “Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind.”

            Josephus’ Antiquities of the Jews: “About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Christ. And when, upon the accusation of the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him to a cross, those who had first come to love him did not cease. He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life, for the prophets of God had foretold these things and a thousand other marvels about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.”

            Just because you don’t understand the words I use, it doesn’t make it word salad. You don’t care for NIETZSCHE? The Father of Atheism? Suit yourself.

            “I don’t want you to believe anything.” Next sentence. “I would prefer that you believe….” Uh-huh. Nice.

            You have shown yourself to be a fool utterly unable to even respond or understand my arguments for the sake of ignorance and willful foolishness. Surely, you will thing that my exit of the conversation will “prove your intellectual superiority” which is just the stamp on your ignorance. I will save my arguments from someone willing and able to engage with them rather than someone who rebukes well-regarded historical facts and his greatest philosophical ally with contempt merely because they are cited by an opponent. I’ll leave so you can discuss with someone on your level who can shout past you as you shout past him in a masturbatory exercise of your dogmatic nonsense. As you contradict yourself and cannot see how what you say completely undermines everything else you say.

            Don’t pity me. I’m ever happier with each passing day, but as Aristotle said: “What man can be said to be happy unless he is dead?” I agree, and when I pass from this life I will know how true that really is. Since you don’t seem to understand the premise of teleology, while a rational man would debate the need or the cause as the nihilists and existentialists did you however seem to deny the entire thing offhand, you should not pity me because I live with a life imbued with meaning in a specific purpose because I was made specifically for a specific purpose. It is you that should be pitied because you live in a world full of atoms that crash into each other and indifferent natural processes. If I were you, I would have been filled already with a Lovecraftian horror of the void, but I suppose that takes perspective. My faith cannot be shaken because like the wind, though invisible, makes the trees sway and make beautiful music. The voice of God makes beautiful music and makes the souls and bodies of men sway in his will. I can never doubt what I have so much evidence to believe. So adieu, I hope that something of what I said was profitable to you but truly I had more in mind for whomever might read this conversation instead. You still have a life to live, so I will pray that you repent and see the errors of your own ways. I think I will return to my rule about throwing pearls before swine, however.

          • pud

            You are more gullible and credulous than I thought.

            The quote from Josephus is a KNOWN FORGERY! Do your homework! There are NO credible eye witness testimonies or historical accounts of any “jesus” by anyone ever. Any and ALL accounts from actual historians ONLY cite the existence of your cult which no one denies. HEARSAY is NOT evidence! The FACT that the so called most important figure in all of human history wrote nothing, said nothing, built nothing and left nothing should have ANY rational person doubting CLAIMS that defy reason and physics.

            You do NOT have any arguments. You falsely cite historians and use FORGERIES as evidence when the most casual research would have shown you wrong.

            You WERE NOT MADE for any purpose and the fact that you value your life only in terms of what it means to an invisible undetectable celestial dictator shows just how off your rocker you truly are!

            There is no “voice of any god” only the voices in your head.

            You are as bad as the dumbest cult member in your contempt for logic, reason and evidence. You admit to “faith” which is “belief” without evidence and the most dishonest position anyone can take.

            You can “pray” your brains out like billions of bleating people have done for thousands of years to hundreds of deities…it only further proves your insanity, infantile wish thinking mentality and full indoctrination into a mythology you can offer NOTHING tangible to support

            Run away…wallow in your delusions with your imaginary friends. Friends that only 3 year olds and psychotics entertain at tea parties and on subway platforms

          • Luke Thomas

            Matthew 7:6
            Proverbs 26:12

          • pud

            The worst thing you could possibly do is quote that ghastly make believe book…

            So this is what the LORD Almighty says about them: “I will punish them! Their young men will die in battle, and their little boys and girls will starve. Not one of these plotters from Anathoth will survive, for I will bring disaster upon them when their time of punishment comes.” (Jeremiah 11:22-23 NLT)

          • pud

            Titus Flavius Josephus, generally just Josephus, and born Joseph ben Matityahu, (ca. 37 – 100 CE[1]) was a Romanised Jewish historian who wrote about Israel during New Testament times. He is primarily known because he supposedly considered Jesus to be the Messiah. Josephus had 4 major writings: The Jewish War (ca. 75 CE), Antiquities of the Jews (ca. 94 CE), Against Apion (ca. 97), and The Life of Flavius Josephus (ca. 99 CE).

            Many Christian apologists cite Josephus to attempt to argue that even the “pagan”/Jewish/etc. Josephus acknowledged Jesus as a savior/miracleworker/etc., and that one should therefore believe in Jesus’ divinity. However, citing Josephus as a source on Jesus argument has numerous flaws. For some reason these facts almost always come as a surprise to Christians who cite him. It’s almost as if they just look up quotes without any understanding of what constitutes valid sources for determining historical events. As a matter of fact, the only writings of Josephus with reference to Jesus had little to do with his alleged divinity. In those writings that do mention Jesus, Josephus seemed to treat him as a human philosopher with a sizable audience, like just about, every, other prophet responsible for the founding of a religion. Not being a Christian himself, which, at the time, was a mystical branch of Judaism, it would have been unlikely that Josephus would have even considered the actual Jesus of being divine.

          • Luke Thomas

            Modern scholarship has largely acknowledged the authenticity of the reference in Book 20, Chapter 9, 1 of the Antiquities to “the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James”[12] and considers it as having the highest level of authenticity among the references of Josephus to Christianity.[13][1][2][14][15][16] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus just read the second paragraph)

            The problem is not even that you are debating but that you are a fool who knows nothing and deliberately lies. But I have gone beyond myself, I have been foolish to continue to debate with a fool.

          • pud

            You are completely willfully delusional

            Is the Testimonium Flavianum authentic? There are several reasons to think not some of which have been pointed out since the 1600s:[4]

            Scholarly consensus: Most scholars admit that at least some parts, if not all, of this paragraph cannot be authentic,[5][6] and some are convinced that the entire paragraph is an interpolation inserted by Christians at a later time.[7][8][9][10] Even Christian scholars consider the paragraph to be an overenthusiastic forgery,[11][12][13] and even the Catholic Encyclopedia concurs.[14] Finally, everyone who is saying some part of “Testimonium Flavianum” is genuine is ignoring examinations younger then 10 years old and in some cases using data from 50 years ago.[15]
            Context: This paragraph breaks the flow of the chapter. Book 18 (“Containing the interval of 32 years from the banishment of Archelus to the departure from Babylon”) starts with the Roman taxation under Cyrenius in 6 CE and discusses various Jewish sects at the time, including the Essenes and a sect of Judas the Galilean, to which he devotes three times more space than to Jesus; Herod’s building of various cities, the succession of priests and procurators, and so on. Chapter 3 starts with sedition against Pilate, who planned to slaughter all the Jews but changed his mind. Pilate then used sacred money to supply water to Jerusalem. The Jews protested; Pilate sent spies into Jewish ranks with concealed weapons, and there was a great massacre. Then in the middle of all these troubles comes the curiously quiet paragraph about Jesus, followed immediately by: “And about the same time another terrible misfortune confounded the Jews …” Josephus would not have thought the Christian story to be “another terrible misfortune.” It is only a Christian (someone like Eusebius) who might have considered Jesus to be a Jewish tragedy. Paragraph three can be lifted out of the text with no damage to the chapter; in fact, it flows better without it.[16]
            Lack of citation: Then there is the issue of how many people do not mention it even when it would have been in their best interests to do so: Justin Martyr (ca. 100 – ca. 165), Theophilus (d. 180), Irenaeus (ca. 120 – ca. 203), Clement of Alexandria (ca. 150 — ca. 215), Origen (ca. 185 – ca. 254), Hippolytus (ca. 170 – ca. 235), Minucius Felix (d. c250), Anatolius (230 – 280), Chrysostom (ca. 347 – 407), Methodius (9th century), and Photius (ca. 820 – 891). There are many places in Origen’s Against Celsus where he should have mentioned such a passage but didn’t.[17]
            Structure: Structurally there is much wrong with the passage.[18][19] Josephus doesn’t explain things as he does in passages of other would be messiahs.(see Jona Lendering’s Messiah (overview) for examples of the amount of detail Josephus gives… even to Athronges, the shepherd of 4 BCE who Josephus says “had been a mere shepherd, not known by anybody.” and yet had enough to give us far more details then is seen in the Jesus passage. Things such as what deeds Jesus did and to what Jesus won over people are missing.[20]
            Similarity to the Bible: There is a 19 point unique correspondence between this passage and Luke’s Emmaus account.[21][22]
            “Christ”: The term “Christ” only appears in the Testimonium Flavianum and in a later passage regarding James “brother of Jesus” (see below). But the purpose of the work was to promote Vespasian as the Jewish Messiah (i.e., ‘Christ’), so why would Josephus, a messianic Jew, use the term only here? Moreover, the Greek word used here is the same as in the Old Testament, but to Josephus’ Roman audience it would mean ‘the ointment’ rather than ‘anointed one’, resulting in many a Roman scratching their head in befuddlement.[23]
            Location: Josephus was in Rome from 64 to 66 CE to petition emperor Nero for the release of some Jewish priest that Gessius Florus sent there in chains.[24] Josephus makes no mention of the further misfortune of Jesus’ followers that Tacitus and Suetonius record. If the Testimonium Flavianum was genuine in any way, Josephus certainly would have mentioned the further misfortune of Jesus followers under Nero, since he was right there in Rome for two years when it was supposedly going on. So either the Testimonium Flavianum is a forgery, or the Tacitus and Suetonius accounts are urban myth — both sets of accounts cannot be true.

          • Delon Duvenage

            yet you are the one running away

          • pud

            Dude…piss off. You’re an idiot and I don’t engage with idiots.

          • Delon Duvenage

            well its a good thing you don’t talk to yourself then

          • Delon Duvenage

            tireless mission ! my oh my , sounds so courageous 😉 guess what , so am I

  • pud

    There is no such thing as “sin” It is entirely man make nonsense like the rest of your imaginary woo woo.

    • Delon Duvenage

      Actually sin is an act that cause harm to the person committing the act or harm to another person

      • pud

        Not according to your delusional cult it isn’t….Per your nonsense it’s an affront to the invisible, undetectable celestial dictator who seems to be offended by just about everything

        • Delon Duvenage

          no , once again your perception is failing you , God want to protect you from hurt , that is why He made the laws , if you break the law you get hurt , thus the law is there for your protection , you cant possibly be so simple minded as to not understand that

          • pud

            I normally don’t engage with idiots or the simple minded which you clearly are but I will request one thing from you…

            Demonstrate that any “god” past or present ever existed or currently exists. Do not quote your stupid book as that is not evidence and do not relate any of your simple minded personal experiences as they are not evidence either

            Show it…Prove your claim

          • Delon Duvenage

            Prove to me He doesn’t exist

          • pud

            About as I expected. The most stupid reply possible.

            Prove to me that there aren’t invisible pink pixies floating around Neptune….

            Now I know clearly that you’re of a very low IQ but if you cannot see the stupidity of your reply we’ll have to bid each other adios…

          • Delon Duvenage

            the proof is in prayer , I have caught many an atheist with this one , either you refuse to pray which means you are not really looking for proof , you are just one of the mockers that the Bible warns will be in the end times , or you pray and you get the proof

          • Delon Duvenage

            running away so quickly ?! not much of a challenge ….ppfft

          • Delon Duvenage

            Ok , I am just toying with you now , let’s be serious , I will prove to you , without personal experience or quoting from the greatest book ever.
            humor me and whenever you have time , pray , just humor me and pretend He is there , ask Him anything you want , but please don’t come up with the typical
            human BS about a Ferrari and a house in Malibu , I am talking about your real problems , pray and talk to Him about your real problems in life
            Then you will get your proof , if you refuse to do this , you are not serious anyway

          • pud

            How many prayers were offered up during the Black Plague or World War 2?

            Sorry but you are a simple minded dolt and I don’t do simple minded…have a nice dim witted day! Bye!

          • Delon Duvenage

            ah and how many were answered ?

          • pud

            10s if not 100s of MILLIONS suffered and died…oh but look! One guy said the right magic words and only lost a leg! It’s a miracle!

            Now stop writing to me…you’re an imbecile and I don’t do imbeciles

          • Delon Duvenage

            how are you ever going to prove who prayed and who did not ? and how many really had faith and who did not ? and besides who ever said that once you become a Christian life suddenly becomes moonshine and roses ? I can tell you from personal experience that it does not , but that is not the point

          • Delon Duvenage

            btw I engage with idiots all the time 😉

          • pud

            I’m sure you do..it’s called “church”

          • Delon Duvenage

            just told you i never go to church

          • Delon Duvenage

            this reminds me of yahoo chatrooms back in the old days , nothing beats chatting with a brainless moron on the other side of the world 🙂

        • Delon Duvenage

          seeing as I do not belong to any church your statement is incorrect

  • pud

    Hey! Crazy jack! Why is there never EVER any humor in your end of days death cult essays? Would you not agree that humor and laughter are core elements of being human? How is it then in your stupid superstitious book where man is made in the image of your invisible undetectable hidden “god” there is absolutely NO humor whatsoever? Does that make humor a “sin”? or does it say that your invisible undetectable deity is completely humorless? Tell me simple jack, how will your make believe eternal church service kissing jesus butt “heaven” be like absent humor, levity, laughter etc

    Do you ever stop to consider how ridiculous, dark and forlorn you truly are?

  • rtgmath

    So, then. If not all sin is the same or deserves the same punishment, do you believe in degrees of hell? Buddy here stole a pen and didn’t repent of it, so he has to burn in hell for eternity. Mark, however, stole the car. He burns as well, but hotter and with more eternal agony.

    And Pete? He lived a good life. He just didn’t believe the gospel because he never could get past the stumbling block so-called believers put in his path, like claiming they were forgiven and on their way to heaven, while they sinned with impunity. Gary even had an affair with Pete’s wife, but Gary and Pete’s wife are going to heaven because they “believed the gospel” — even though they had the affair as “Christians.” So Pete never believed. He didn’t steal and he didn’t commit adultery, but he gets to burn.

    Jack, I used to believe this stuff. But when you look at it carefully, there are way too many inconsistencies and miscarriages of justice. If there is an eternal hell, then God is not holy. And if you believe that “belief” will save people from hell, James reminds you that the demons believe and tremble.

    Seems to me that the church has a lot of cleanup to do, both in doctrine and in practice.

    • Jack Wellman

      Thank you for your comment. I used to not believe “this stuff” but now I do.

    • mike

      I think the beginning of an answer is that all of these things that you bring up are examples of behavior springing from sin, which is something more fundamental. In the same way that righteous acts spring from righteousness, so sinful acts spring from sin.

      Does a dog’s barking make it a dog or does it bark because it is a dog and the barking is one identifying marker? If it ceases barking is it no longer a dog?

      As I understand it (and as is often shallowly skimmed over in churches) sin is not primarily an action but more like a disposition. We tend to want to judge according to exterior things.

      • rtgmath

        When God judges in the Scriptures, it is always by what people do, never by the fact they were “born sinners.” God never judges by “disposition.”

        • mike

          Ecclesiastes 7:20 (ESV)

          Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.

          Individual deeds are certainly judged but I believe that they are judged at the level of intention.

          1 Samuel 16:7 But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”

          The intention of obeying God was lost to the human nature in the Garden of Eden, for the temptation was “In the day you eat of it you shall be like God, knowing good and evil.”

          In other words, I don’t need God to tell me what to do; I can figure it out on my own. In this paradigm even an outwardly “good” deed can be sinful if my intention is to exclude God and do what is right in my own eyes.

          Just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up so that everyone who believes may have eternal life (John 3). Moses held up an image of what was killing the Israelites. How is Jesus on the cross like that? He is the Word of God made into flesh. The Word of God put to death by humanity. The Word of God, dead up on a pole as a picture of what is killing us. For an individual to repent of that and cry out to God, in Christ, for mercy is to come alive for God was, in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself…at the level of intention.

  • Maltnothops

    Is it harder for the Christian god to forgive some sins than others? I’d think they would all be equally easy.

    • Delon Duvenage

      There are differences between sin and abomination , christians themselves tend to confuse the two , be weary when you commit what God terms an abomination

      • Maltnothops

        Is it harder for god to forgive an abomination than a sin?

        • Delon Duvenage

          I don’t think it is harder to forgive , but I am not God , all I can say is that if you read the Bible you will see that most sin usually has a prescribed remedy

          like if you do this sin , you go to the temple and you bring an offering and your sin is forgiven , but with abomination the punishment is swift and severe (usually death) and there is no remedy , no offering can be made

          This is off-course as seen under the law,

          But as Christians our debt has been paid so the punishment does not apply to us if we accepted the salvation through Christ

          But then it also means that through our love of Christ and by guidance of the Holy Spirit we will not commit an abomination , precisely because of what it is

          It is interesting that the Bible seems ( to me anyway)
          to have three angles on abomination , it says that certain things should be an abomination for us as humans , so it basically says we should avoid it like the plague , in most cases it is because it could cause us serious sickness ( like not eating roadkill , really its a no-brainer)

          in other cases it states that certain things is an abomination to God
          I can only imagine that if He pointed it out as an abomination to Himself that it would be wise to avoid

          and thirdly the Bible calls certain acts simply and abomination thus implying it is an abomination itself , not just to God or to that it should be to people

          now as for what should be an abomination to us , I get the feeling that was just said in such a way as to warn us of the seriousness , you will note it usually points to things you really shouldn’t eat and there is nothing said in terms of punishment or remedy should you decide to go ahead and do it , however if you read about most of these you will see its things we wouldn’t be inclined to do anyway , even if it wasn’t forbidden , its human nature to avoid them

          • Maltnothops

            From reading the Bible, it seems the remedy for abomination is Jesus. As you say, the debt is paid. I disagree that Christians won’t commit abominations. As the bumper sticker says, “not perfect, just forgiven”.

            So if the temporal punishment for abomination is death and the sinner happens to be Christian, the ultimate outcome is heaven.

          • Delon Duvenage

            well this discussion can go on forever because , are we talking about true christians or just the christians that are “christians” because they are trying to appease their conscience ?

            do you have any idea how rare true christians are ?
            It is one of the biggest problems of religion today everybody is a christian , yeah right

            I mean how many “Christians” do you know that have read their Bible and can quote from it , lets say , knows at least two thirds of it ? I tell you now from experience that in my lifetime I have only met around 10 if that much , the rest get their information secondhand , and you know what secondhand means.

            Now many would say it is not important , but Jesus said that people err due to not knowing the scripture and the power of God
            I blame christians not knowing the scripture for almost every problem in the religious world today , most quote other , quoting others quoting someone who think he knows , ?! why ?! the book is right there just read it

          • Delon Duvenage

            as an after though what would you say Christ meant when he said

            Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
            Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

            and

            Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
            Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

          • Maltnothops

            I think that means people sin and there are various sorts of punishments from various authorities, depending upon both interpretation and scope of authority.

          • Delon Duvenage

            no , it means that by law you are guilty if you commit an offense but ethically you are guilty if you just think about committing an offense and as Christians , we should look at sin from an ethical point of view

            lets consider this part
            Acts 5:3-4

            But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the
            Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land? “While it
            remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was
            it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed
            in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”

            moments later he died and his wife followed a while later
            punished , because ? they sinned against God , an abomination wouldn’t you say

          • Maltnothops

            You’re missing the point. It doesn’t matter if something is a sin or an abomination since it is equally easy for True Christians to commit either one and equally easy for god to forgive either one.

          • Delon Duvenage

            now you see that is where I do not agree and I know why you do not agree with me and this is where it gets really interesting , tell me what guides you in terms of your goals in life , your decisions , against what do you compare your morality ?

          • Maltnothops

            Which of the 3 parts do you not agree with?

            Edited for clarity.

          • Delon Duvenage

            That true Christians can commit an abomination , not sin I mean an abomination when I say it , example
            Mark 3:28-30: “Truly I tell you, all sins and blasphemes will be forgiven for the sons of men. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin. He said this because they [the Pharisees] were saying, ‘He has an evil spirit’.”

            this is an abomination and Christ is clear on the punishment here

          • Maltnothops

            It seems that you’ve misidentified the part with which you disagree. You haven’t shown that a True Christian is incapable of an abomination. I wonder if this is simply a matter of definition: Have you defined a True Christian as, in part, someone who is incapable of abomination?

            The part with which you disagree is god’s willingness or perhaps ability to forgive an abomination. You’ve already indicated that you don’t know what god is capable of (“I don’t think it is harder to forgive, but I’m not God”) so I guess you are indicating that you do know what god is willing to do.

          • Delon Duvenage

            You do not understand me for one simple reason , I have something you don’t and all the words in the world is not going to bring you to my point of view
            I just told you , I will not commit an abomination , there is no doubt about it and neither would anyone who is guided by the Holy Spirit
            There is no way the Holy Spirit would sin against itself , so a “christian who commits an abomination does not have the Holy Spirit within him or her and is therefore not a true christian

          • Maltnothops

            We each have something the other doesn’t. Fortunately, neither of us wants what the other has.

            I’m not sure from you’ve written if you can’t or won’t commit an abomination. You’ve written it both ways as if they are the same but obviously they aren’t. If you can’t commit an abomination, then being a True Christian is little more than random chance. If you won’t, then one can choose whether or not to be a True Christian. In the latter case, I used to choose that path but have since chosen otherwise. In other words, it wasn’t impossible, as you have asserted. Free will and all that.

          • Delon Duvenage

            There is a book called “Loci Communes” it is written by Philip Melanchthon , it should explain a lot of things to you more clearly , it is well worth it reading it if you truly want to understand Christianity and how it all really works
            you can also get yourself a dvd titled ” come search with me” by Dr Subodh Pandit , really a strong disciple of Christ

            Good luck

          • Maltnothops

            Thanks but lack of understanding or knowledge isn’t the issue. I understand Christianity perfectly well having been a True Christian myself for many, many years.

            Good luck yourself.

          • mike

            The Pharisees and teachers of the law were saying that Jesus was casting out demons by the power of the Prince of demons. This deliberate rejection of what was obviously the working of God is unforgivable. ALL sins and ALL blasphemies apart from this are forgivable and that is good for the one who trusts in Jesus because His gospel IS the power of God for the salvation of those who believe. Rejection of Christ is the only unpardonable sin simply because, in doing so, you reject the pardon itself. Abomination is not a separate category that exists outside of the reach of God’s grace.

            Devon, if you cannot commit abomination (because you are led by the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit can not commit abomination) then, by the same reasoning, you cannot sin at all because the Holy Spirit cannot sin. John says that if you say you have no sin then you are a liar and the truth is not in you. This is deadly dangerous ground.

            If you think that you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall. 1 Cor. 10:12

            Paul knew of nothing against himself and yet was not justified by that apparent innocence. God is the judge, therefore judge nothing before the Lord comes and brings everything to light. 1 Cor. 4:4-6

          • Delon Duvenage

            “if you cannot commit abomination (because you are led by the Holy Spirit
            and the Holy Spirit can not commit abomination) then, by the same
            reasoning, you cannot sin at all because the Holy Spirit cannot sin”

            your reasoning is flawed

          • mike

            How is the reasoning flawed? Can the Holy Spirit sin?

          • Delon Duvenage

            abomination and sin is not the same thing , are you mentally disabled ?

          • mike

            Proverbs 6:16-19 lists seven abominations that it would be hard to argue are not also sins: Pride, lying, innocent bloodshed, wicked desires, the will to do evil, false testimony, discord.

            But even if sin and abomination are not the same the logic still holds because the common element is that both are things that the Holy Spirit cannot do. If you cannot commit abomination because you are led by the Spirit then neither will that same Spirit allow you to sin.

            Thanks for the insult, by the way.

          • Delon Duvenage

            it was a question , because you honestly do not come across as very bright , unless of course you are a child

            I had a long day , I’m not in the mood for trolls

            read your bible , stop testing my patience

            end of discussion

          • mike

            David planned and carried out the murder of an innocent man (Uriah, Bathsheba’s husband) and it is, according to Proverbs 6, clearly an abomination to shed innocent blood. Oddly enough, when David was confronted over this by Nathan the prophet, Nathan said, “The Lord has taken away your sin. You are not going to die. But because by doing this you have shown utter contempt for the Lord, the son born to you will die.”2 Samuel 12:13.

            So the abomination committed by David was confessed by David as a sin and forgiven by the Lord as a sin.

            It is up to you to substantiate your claim, from Scripture, that abominations are some kind of unforgivable category. Jesus only ever identified one thing as eternally unforgivable and it was one very specific thing (blasphemy against the Holy Spirit) not an entire category of things. He was very clear that everything else could be forgiven.

            BTW, insults are not persuasive in conversation. They are more like the written equivalent of really bad body odor. If people drop out of conversation following your insults it is most likely not because you have mastered them with your intellect.

          • mike

            In fact, here is something that you wrote in this very thread where you use the terms abomination and sin interchangeably (I’ve capitalized them so they can’t be missed):

            I just told you , I will not commit an ABOMINATION , there is no doubt
            about it and neither would anyone who is guided by the Holy Spirit
            There is no way the Holy Spirit would SIN against itself , so a “christian
            who commits an ABOMINATION does not have the Holy Spirit within him or her and is therefore not a true christian.

          • Delon Duvenage

            why do you say “I don’t agree with ” I am simply quoting scripture cant you see that ? Jesus does not agree with you my friend , I am simply pointing it out

          • Delon Duvenage

            Because I am guided by the Holy Spirit and because of that abomination is not possible for me , you see where you err is that you say ” I’ve been a Christian believer and I’ve not been a believer and I can
            say that I’ve been more content as a non-believer than as a believer”
            You can’t become a true Christian and then leave the club , do you understand that , once you are in you are in , if you say you were a christian and then you say you stopped , that is where you were mistaken , you THOUGHT you were

            because what you are saying is that , I was born again and then I went and became unborn again , and that is impossible

          • Maltnothops

            How can you tell that you are actually guided by the HS and don’t simply believe that you are?

            For example, some people are colorblind in various ways. They might, for example, see green. They “know” they see green. They behave according to what they know. They aren’t dishonest and it certainly isn’t impossible for them to see a color that is not there.

          • Delon Duvenage

            because it becomes impossible to commit an abomination 😉

          • Maltnothops

            I’m happy to stipulate that the grace of Jesus is restricted to True Christians. That doesn’t change anything. I think True Christians are sinners just as much as non-True Christians. Which means they could engage in an abomination, suffer temporal death, be forgiven thru their belief in Jesus, and ultimately proceed to heaven. I believe the Christian god is so powerful that it can forgive both sins and abominations.

    • Theodore A. Jones

      Infractions of the written code are forgivable. However an infraction of the law Paul references in Rom. 2:13 isn’t forgivable in that only the faith of obeying that singular law resolves the trespass of the sin of murdering Jesus Christ.

  • Kera Lynn

    Mhmm. This is a good article (as always ;)), Jack. Keep up God’s work!

    • Jack Wellman

      Thank you Kera. (Psalm 115:1).

      • Kera Lynn

        You’re welcome 🙂

  • Delon Duvenage

    “come search with me” by Dr Subodh Pandit , good medicine for atheists

  • Brien