Rock Of Ages Or Rock Of Offense?

Rock Of Ages Or Rock Of Offense? October 22, 2018

You cannot be neutral with Jesus; He is either your Savior or someday, He will be your judge.

The Tenants

After Jesus had just given the Parable of the Tenants, “the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he was speaking about them. And although they were seeking to arrest him, they feared the crowds, because they held him to be a prophet” (Matt 21:45-46). And they were right. It was about them, but also about anyone else who rejects the cornerstone, which is Jesus Christ Himself (Matt 21:42). He told the Jews “the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits” (Matt 21:43), and it was in a little over a decade after the church began its missionary work for the Gentiles. Much fruit was borne, mainly through the Apostle Paul who was the chief apostle to the Gentiles. The Jews thought they had a birthright to the kingdom because they were the children of Abraham, but it is not about race; it’s about grace. They needed to be born again or born from above (John 3:3-7), so whoever rejects this cornerstone, will also be rejected by Christ on Judgment Day. Jesus said that “the one who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; and when it falls on anyone, it will crush him” (Matt 21:44).

The Foundation

Jesus is the Chief Cornerstone of the church. The Apostle Paul wrote that “no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ” (1 Cor 3:11). And if you’ve trusted in Christ, then “you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God” (Eph 2:20). For the last 2,000 years, the church has been “built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone” (Eph 2:21), but we are also part of this building because “In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit” (Eph 2:22). The Apostle Peter recognizes that the church is also part of the building, being built stone by stone, as he says, “you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ” (1 Pet 2:5). A stone by itself is nothing. It can be moved, it can be tossed around, or even buried, but when you join stone upon stone, and lay that upon the foundation that’s already been laid, it’s not so easy to move it. In fact, it resists change or moving from one place to another. The church that Jesus said that He would build is still prevailing today, and not even death has prevailed against her. Any saints that die for their faith are ushered into the kingdom, so not death can prevent us from being with the Lord (Rom 8:38-39).

Rock of Offense

Isaiah the Prophet wrote about Christ that “He will be a holy place; for both Israel and Judah he will be a stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall. And for the people of Jerusalem he will be a trap and a snare. Many of them will stumble; they will fall and be broken, they will be snared and captured” (Isaiah 8:14-15), and great was the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD when the Roman armies destroyed much of Jerusalem. Josephus writes that about 1.1 million non-combatants died in and around Jerusalem, many dying of hunger. It’s not like they hadn’t been warned thought. In referring to the magnificent temple, Jesus shocked the disciples by telling them that “there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down” (Matt 24:2), and that did come to pass (70 AD). God knew that this Rock would cause many to stumble, because they see the cross as foolishness, so when Jesus referred to Isaiah’s quote, He said, “And the one who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; and when it falls on anyone, it will crush him” (Matt 21:44). What Christ said 2,000 years ago is still relevant today. There is no neutrality with Christ. You are either for Him or against Him. You either rest upon the Rock of Ages, or the Rock falls upon you someday (Heb 9:27; Rev 20:12-15).

The Chief Cornerstone

Today, people are still rejecting Jesus Christ, and so nothing has changed since the Apostle Peter wrote, that “the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe. The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone” (1 Pet 2:7). When John the Baptist saw the Sadducees and the Pharisees, he told them to “not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father,’ for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham” (Matt 3:9). As it turned out, God did raise up many “living stones” (1 Pet 2:5) as part of the church that Jesus has been building for the last 2,000 years. In a prophecy recorded in the Book of Psalms, it was foretold that “The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone” (Psalm118:22), and so He has. He is the Chief Cornerstone for us who believe, but Paul writes that Jesus Christ is “a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense” (Rom 9:33a). Thankfully, whoever it is who “believes in him will not be put to shame” (Rom 9:33b).


One church that was shrinking and dying may have been dying because they did not evangelize. They were as one man said, “The Frozen Chosen.” He said, evangelize or fossilize, and he’s right. Since God has chosen us from before the foundation or the creation of the world (Eph 1), it is our duty to seek out others who may also be chosen. We may not know who they are, but God will use us as a means to reach them. “Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world” (Heb 1:1-2), and today, He speaks to us and tells us to “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age” (Matt 28:19-20).

Article by Jack Wellman

Jack Wellman is Pastor of the Mulvane Brethren Church in Mulvane Kansas. Jack is a writer at Christian Quotes and also the Senior Writer at What Christians Want To Know whose mission is to equip, encourage, and energize Christians and to address questions about the believer’s daily walk with God and the Bible. You can follow Jack on Google Plus or check out his book Teaching Children the Gospel available on Amazon.

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  • pud

    No, only indoctrinated cult members like yourself who have swallowed an ancient barbaric text can’t be neutral. Only lunatics who care nothing for the actual truth, reason and reality can’t be objective and neutral. Only the irrational and delusional intimidated by the priests and implicit threats of your cult can’t remain neutral,

    You jack are a terrorist. You peddle fiction like a mafia boss.

    “Believe” or else! Because he loves you!


  • Glory

    Thank you for being a shining beacon of light to me in a dark world, Pastor Wellman. I wish I could be more like you discipling the nations.

    Loved the “evangelize or fossilize” admonition. It is dead on.

    Have a blessed day! I will pray for you and your continued evangelical success.

    • Jack Wellman

      Thank you so much. As for discipling, and as you know. God alone saves, but what joy to be used by God for His glory so all glory to Him and none to us (Psalm 115:1).

      • Glory

        Love your humility, Pastor. That must be why you are God’s chosen instrument.

        Thank you for your special focus on evangelism which is God’s charity to the world making it imho the supreme charity to practice in His name.

        All glory to God especially for the divine inspiration that He provides.

        • pud

          LOL…the “all powerful” “creator” of the universe needs a stupid bumpkin from Kansas to be his “instrument” BHWAA!!

        • You are “sucking up ” to Jack. You know the right religious language to give you an “air of piety” but your replies to atheists and any Christians who dare to question your motives, shows how hypocritical you really are.

          What divine inspiration do you have? You are deluding yourself.

      • Glory

        It will be sad for all these unbelievers once evolution is fully discredited because they placed their faith in it and missed out on their own spiritual birth and regeneration with Jesus.

        That’s why I tell them seeking is their responsibility. It’s not some cheap intellectual, philosophical game or argument that many Net atheists seem to be addicted to.

        Addiction is just repeated, unresolved sin and there is no excuse for staying addicted to self destructive sin when Jesus can absolve you of it and give you a fresh start.

        • pud

          Evolution is a theory AND a FACT. It requires no FAITH just like acceptance of gravity requires NO FAITH. Only religious lunatics like yourself and jack MUST rely on “faith” because you have NO FACTS, NO EVIDENCE…NOTHING!

          You are addicted to this cult. You are addicted to a superstitious “belief” of which you can demonstrate NOTHING

          • Did you know that over on Jack Lee’s blog (The Chorus in the Chaos), Glory has called atheists “intellectual savages” in the post “why Evangelicals need to stop saying ‘It’s a relationship, not a religion’? Talk about her “unresolved sin”. She also claimed that atheists had issued death threats to her, something that I doubt very much as being truthful.

            And Jack Wellman thanks her above for discipling. Well surely Jack knows that Jesus didn’t call atheists “intellectual savages”. Glory doesn’t seem to know that Jesus is said to have said ” be compassionate, even as your Father in heaven is compassionate, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked.” , unless she’s deluded into believing that calling people “intellectual savages” is fruit of the Spirit.

            Now atheists don’t claim to be filled with the Spirit, but many sanctimonious Christians like Glory do. Her refusal to be questioned by anyone on her experiences or her walk with “god”, atheist or Christian, and her repugnant presentation of the Gospel just turns atheists off big time. She is so “up herself” with her opinion of herself that she is no effective evangelist for any God of compassion.

          • pud

            She and jack are sick people. They are mentally ill individuals and self proclaimed salesmen for an invisible miracle product that if you refuse to buy will garner you the death penalty. They both are rabid cult members no different than the followers of Charles Manson, Hitler or any other ideological leader. Neither of them can think independently, neither care for reason or evidence, neither can critically think and both are intellectual cowards who cannot hold their own empty wet sacks when challenged. They truly are ill, deluded, psychotic and pathological.

        • Myles

          A pale copy of Gilgamesh, discredited many times, is obviously very addictive to people like “Glory”.

      • Glory

        Pastor could you give s teaching on heart knowledge versus head knowledge with the most significant verses?

        I read a short explanation by Timothy Keller on it but he did not list any of the verses. Thank you in advance.

        • There is no such thing as “heart” knowledge. Do you mean knowledge gained by your emotions?Well, if you base knowledge on your emotions you are likely to be wrong, except when you hit on the right answer through a fluke.

          There is scientific knowledge, historical knowledge, ethical arguments, logical propositions and arguments etc., but “heart” knowledge? What do you say to the person who claims “heart knowledge” of fairies or “heart knowledge” of Thor or Jupiter or Zeus or any one of the countless invisible non existent gods? Of course, we know that you are silly enough to believe in the existence of invisible beings such as angels, Satan and demons and that you say you have heart knowledge of the invisible Jesus.

        • Rational people don’t rely on any “heart” knowledge but on clear thinking and on evidence. Your real danger of using “heart” knowledge is that you become an irrationalist. You let your emotions, too often, control you and you get very angry, so often, in your replies to those who disagree with you. Your problem might be the certitude you think that you get from “heart” knowledge, especially when you mistakenly believe that you have private revelations from god.

  • Glory

    Pastor not to be too off topic but I recently came across a scientist fired for a dinosaur discovery that undermines the theory of evolution.

    The article is called Scientist Fired for Dinosaur Discovery by Richard William Nelson.

    Nelson has a site called darwinthenandnow.

    He is tracking scientific progress in multiple sciences. On his section on Genesis he says on his blog:

    While evolution was once a theory in crisis, now the theory of evolution is in crisis without even a theory. Evolution exists only as a philosophy, not as a science. As cytogeneticist Antonio Lima-de-Faria, decorated by the Swedish king as “Knight of the Order of the North Star” for his discoveries on the molecular organization of the chromosome, declared –
    “There has never been a theory of evolution.”

    Another interesting read is the online essay “9 Scientific Facts Prove the “Theory of Evolution” is False”.

    I have felt for years that with scientific progress and the unfolding of DNA secrets, epigenetics, etc. that scientific progress would eventually self refute evolution. Of course it is slow going because of all the peer pressure on scientists to stop thinking for themselves and accept group assumptions as fact or else.

    • I have felt for years that with scientific progress and the unfolding of DNA secrets, epigenetics, etc. that scientific progress would self refute evolution. Of course it is slow going because of all the peer pressure on scientists to stop thinking for themselves and accept group assumptions or else.”

      You are totally ignorant of how science works. Studies are replicable. random samples are taken and test statistics from the sample obtained. The p-value shows the probability of making a type 1 error. A hypothesis is tested by running experiments (controlled or randomised) or by gathering data. Although mistakes can be made, continual replication of the studies by other scientists will uncover any errors.

      Evolution is the best theory to explain the various subdivisions of biological science. No other theory comes anywhere near explaining so much of the biological science as evolution does. There is multiple corroborating evidence all the biological sciences for evolution, by people who have been attempting to falsify hypothesis based on the theory of evolution.

  • TinnyWhistler

    “He is either your Savior or someday, He will be your judge.”
    Am I missing something? Where does the Bible point to this either-or?

    2 Corinthians 5:10 seems to indicate that EVERYONE will be judged “so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad,” not just people for whom Jesus isn’t a savior.

    Where does the Bible say that Christians (people for whom Jesus is their Savior) will not be judged? And how does it reconcile with Corinthians?

    • Jack Wellman

      Either you have trusted in Jesus and He is your Savior, or if you reject Christ, He will be your judge (Rev 20:12-15). I did not say Christians will be judged as their sin is already taken away by Christ, but if you reject Jesus Christ, He is not your Savior but will be your judge. Does this help Tinny?

      • TinnyWhistler

        I guess I fail to see how Revelation implies that Christians will not be judged. The passage says that the dead come up for judgement, regardless of where or how they’d been buried. There’s no indication of their relationship with Christ affecting whether or not they are judged. It simply says “the dead, great and small”

        “I did not say Christians will be judged as their sin is already taken away by Christ”
        How do you square this with Paul saying that everyone will be judged? Where does the Bible say that Christians’ sins being covered means they will not be judged?

        I’m not arguing with you regarding rejection of Jesus leading to judgement, but rather whether Christians are also judged as laid out in Corinthians and also Revelation as you helpfully provided.

        • Jack Wellman

          Okay, thank you. I know we all have disagreements, but love it when we are not disagreable.

        • Glory

          This is why you should learn religion from obedient Christians not share opinions with disobedient worldly people.

          Why is obedience to God important?

          obedience to GodQuestion: “Why is obedience to God important?”

          Answer: Obedience to God proves our love for Him (1 John 5:2-3), demonstrates our faithfulness to Him (1 John 2:3-6), glorifies Him in the world (1 Peter 2:12), and opens avenues of blessing for us (John 13:17).

          Faith is necessary to please God (Hebrews 11:6), and if our faith is genuine and true, we will live a lifestyle characterized by righteousness, modeling the example set for us by Jesus Christ. We obey His commands, not because we have to, but because we want to, because we love Him. We are enabled to obey because, once we believe in Christ and are saved, we are remade. We are not the same people we once were. As Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 5:17, “If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!”

          When we obey the Lord, we can live a life of joy, without shame, rooted deeply in the Lord and confident in our eternal hope. “Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom” (2 Corinthians 3:17). Our obedience is actually part of our assurance that we truly know God (1 John 2:3).

          When God’s children obey their Heavenly Father, He is glorified. Jesus told us that the plan is for others to “see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven” (Matthew 5:16). Of course, performing “good deeds” requires obedience to the One who calls us to good deeds. A Christian’s testimony of holiness is a strong witness that God is at work in the world.

          “Blessed are all who fear the LORD, who walk in obedience to him” (Psalm 128:1). The Bible often tells us that God blesses and rewards obedience. James 1:22-25 says, “Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. . . . Whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.” See also Psalm 119:1-2.

          God is gracious. If we haven’t been living for Him, if we haven’t been following His commandments, if we’ve been living in and for the world, we can be transformed by the blood of Jesus Christ. We can ask God for forgiveness, and He will give it. And He will choose to forget the sin, just as if we had never committed it in the first place. God is glorified when He extends forgiveness, because it is written, “I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds. . . . Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more” (Hebrews 10:16-17).

          The word for faith in Hebrew is shama which means to hear and obey.

          So who do you prioritize listening to? A holy God or unholy men?

          Something to meditate on cf. Psalm 1.

          Have a blessed day. Bye!

      • pud

        Total infantile bullshit

    • Guestie

      I wondered about that too. From the way it is written, the underlying assumption seems to be that being judged means one is guilty. A peculiar notion of jurisprudence for someone in the Western tradition.

      • TinnyWhistler

        Hm. I kinda wonder if that’s the case, but I haven’t gotten an answer yet.

        • Guestie

          There is that Christian notion that everyone is born guilty of something or other. If that were the case, however, then there would be no need for judging at all.

          • TinnyWhistler

            Original sin? Some Christians believe that humans inherit weakness toward sin such that it’s functionally impossible to live without sinning, others believe that humans inherit *guilt* from their ancestors going back to Adam. And then there are those who believe that humans have a capacity for sin that can be 100% fully overcome through a combination of will and faith, but they’re generally on the fringe. The most extreme version of that I’ve ever come across was a very small (and a bit culty) church that believed that people who didn’t sin on earth wouldn’t experience physical death: It was possible to live forever if you just didn’t mess up.

            I’d always been told that everyone would be judged but there’d be no *conviction* for Christians. I know that different denominations have different opinions on how exactly that works but I had the impression that no one really disagrees with Paul that everyone would be judged in some manner or another. Which is why I was surprised by the bit I originally quoted. Paul says that people will be judged according to their deeds.

    • Glory

      Tinny, I am only taking you off block this once.

      As an agnostic who once had an inquiring mind it is a shame you have gotten stuck in agnosticism which is just a hop, skip and a jump away from atheism.

      You need to read some Christian Universalist Restorationists and stop reading so much hater literature coming from atheist propaganda sources.

      Take your mind back and read Aion-Aionios online essay by John Wesley Hanson. Find it on the Tentmaker site.

      Then read Stephen E Jones’ Creation’s Jubilee.

      First read this:
      If God Could Save Everyone, Would He?

      I like Wellman but he accepts hell doctrine too easily.

      Hanson explains the translation error.

      Jones explains hell is not in the ancient texts so why did Rome slip it into the Vulgate then forcefeed it to Christians for 1400 years?

      Eternal torment doctrine is a false doctrine.

      I am not answering any further questions of your’s. You seem to be a bright young man and I am counting on you having the intelligence untwisted by atheist propaganda to investigate the translation and doctrinal error so you can be saved.

      Don’t be deceived by the origins debate.

      Nothing is impossible with God. He could use any type of creationism, evolution or intelligent design that He wanted to make this world.

      Don’t block God with this atheist propaganda on origins because some people refuse to get their hearts right with God.

      There is heart knowledge and head knowledge.

      So you go be a genuine seeker and check that doctrine out.

      Stop the idle chit chat and see if it will resolve some internal questions and save your soul.

      Go on now. I am trusting you haven’t allowed your intellectual integrity to have become totally warped by this world.

      Now go with God and google and read those works.

      Soul is > than propaganda or chit chat.

      • TinnyWhistler

        Hi, Glory, nice to talk to you again.

        If you’re going to respond to a question I’m asking of someone else, would you mind actually answering my question instead of jumping down my throat and continuing to assume things I haven’t said?
        For example, I have absolutely no idea why you’ve brought up:
        -hell doctrine and its basis in ancient texts
        -the state of my soul
        since my question was about whether, according to the Bible, Christians will be judged along with everyone else. I’m not asking about the result of that judgement, nor about who will be saved, just whether or not Christians will be judged.

        Right now, I don’t know if the sources you’ve recommended will actually answer the question that I asked of Jack since most of your comment has nothing to do with it. I honestly don’t know if you intended to answer my question at all, since you’re calling me out for “idle chit chat” while I’m asking someone who is not you questions.

        I’m not going to argue with you about this since I’ve repeatedly asked you to read what I’ve written and respond to what I’ve said rather than to what you imagine I’ve said and this post doesn’t inspire confidence. that you’re willing to do so here.

        • Glory

          I came across you Christian bashing on another blog so I blocked you.

          But there is still time for you to be saved.

          Stop trying to force me to respond to your questions.

          I am trying to get you to meditate deeply like a true child of God and locate doctrine that might finally convince you in your heart.

          As Wellman will tell you from personal experience the greatest miracle is personal conversion.

          I can direct you to a source that explains your judgment question. But you need to know who God is first. You need to know God’s character.

          You read those works after that go to mercifultruth dot com and locate the essay that explains Christians have Jesus. Those that don’t go thru judgments.

          Why would anyone go the long road of judgment when Jesus can help him now?

          You put your nose to the grindstone and read those site works.

          This is your soul we are talking about. Don’t get sloppy or self deceptive struggling to control the conversation.

          Be a true Berean and research the scriptures for the truth of the matter.

          God Bless!

          Talk is cheap.

          God rewards seekers.

          • TinnyWhistler

            Glory, I can’t know what I said somewhere else that you took as “Christian Bashing” since you didn’t choose to respond there, but every time we’ve talked you’ve read way more into what I’ve written than I actually write, even when I attempt to clarify, and you also take any challenge of your opinion as being automatically wrong and sinful, so forgive me if I take what you’re saying with a grain of salt.

            ” locate the essay that explains Christians have Jesus. Those that don’t go thru judgments.”
            You seem to say here that those who don’t have Jesus go through judgments. Is that correct?

            I found this essay:
            Is this the one you mean? It claims that judgment will start with the “House of God” which seems to contradict what you said earlier.

            I’m seriously just trying to get SOMEONE here to answer me about what Paul meant when he told the church in Corinth “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.” if it doesn’t mean that Christians will be judged.

            If you don’t make an effort to actually respond to what I’m saying here, I’ll ignore you in this thread.

          • Glory

            Never mind we are at cross purposes and I have a headache.

            I tried to lead you to deep truth but you have to control the conversation.

            Have a great life. Bye.

          • Glory

            Keep those references, Tinny. Write them down. It is too hard for me to teach in this format and it is hard to fight atheist propaganda in it too.

            Besides people close to me want me to give up this frustrating online work while I am battling an illness and that is advice I should take although the Gospel is a passion of mine.

            Read those works. The Universalist Restorationists with their teaching on universal reconciliation are the best denomination because they get God’s love and forgiveness with no shadow of pagan hell to cloud their minds.

            I never know if I will be back or not because online is really too chaotic to do religion in competently. Everyone wants to compete instead of learn the deeper truth.

          • Glory

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            What is the Judgment Seat of Christ / Bema Seat of Christ?
            Judgment Seat of Christ, Bema Seat of Christ
            Question: “What is the Judgment Seat of Christ / Bema Seat of Christ?”

            Answer: Romans 14:10–12 says, “For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. . . . So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God” (ESV). Second Corinthians 5:10 tells us, “We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.” In context, it is clear that both passages refer to Christians, not unbelievers. The judgment seat of Christ, therefore, involves believers giving an account of their lives to Christ.

            The judgment seat of Christ does not determine salvation; that was determined by Christ’s sacrifice on our behalf (1 John 2:2) and our faith in Him (John 3:16). All of our sins are forgiven, and we will never be condemned for them (Romans 8:1). We should not look at the judgment seat of Christ as God judging our sins, but rather as God rewarding us for our lives. Yes, as the Bible says, we will have to give an account of ourselves. Part of this is surely answering for the sins we committed. However, that is not going to be the primary focus of the judgment seat of Christ.

            At the judgment seat of Christ, believers are rewarded based on how faithfully they served Christ (1 Corinthians 9:4-27; 2 Timothy 2:5). Some of the things we might be judged on are how well we obeyed the Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20), how victorious we were over sin (Romans 6:1-4), and how well we controlled our tongues (James 3:1-9). The Bible speaks of believers receiving crowns for different things based on how faithfully they served Christ (1 Corinthians 9:4-27; 2 Timothy 2:5). The various crowns are described in 2 Timothy 2:5, 2 Timothy 4:8, James 1:12, 1 Peter 5:4, and Revelation 2:10. James 1:12 is a good summary of how we should think about the judgment seat of Christ: “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.

          • TinnyWhistler

            Thank you for your response, I appreciate it!

            “We should not look at the judgment seat of Christ as God judging our sins, but rather as God rewarding us for our lives. Yes, as the Bible says, we will have to give an account of ourselves. Part of this is surely answering for the sins we committed. However, that is not going to be the primary focus of the judgment seat of Christ.”
            It seems like gotquestions is acknowledging that Christians will be judged, but also wants Christians to remember that they don’t have to worry about the result of that judgement since their sins are already forgiven.

            I’d be interested to know if the author of the original article agrees or disagrees with this, since it seems to disagree with the sentence that I quoted in my first post.

            Thank you again!

          • Glory

            I can’t speak for them. But Christians don’t get a completely free skate.

            Christ can say to a Christian that he never knew them if they are false Christians. Also there is a passage in Luke that says a believer can be striped.

            Christians are suppose to be Christlike but not all are.

            But don’t let the bad apples or atheist propaganda where they only focus on the bad apples deceive you.

            There are still many good Christians around today and if you look you can find them. But some people prefer faultfinding with Christians rather than locating the true disciples.

            There is a learning curve with spiritual maturity. Christians are the sons of God in training so we study to be approved by God.

            So really how could an outsider determined to find fault ever really know what a set apart/holy dedicated Christian knows. Christianity requires commitment.

            I am sorry if I misread you. That happens alot online with everybody as far as I can tell.

            Have a blessed day! I am leaving cyber space soon.

            This is an interesting link to look at:
            Universal Reconciliation

          • Glory

            You may want to read this book although this site is really for serious students of the Bible.

            The Sons of God, Dr Stephen E Jones

            A quote from it:

            What does the Bible mean when it speaks of “the son of God” and “the sons of God”? Is Jesus the only Son of God? John 3:16 speaks of Jesus as being “the only-begotten Son of God.” How, then, can the Apostle Paul tell us in Rom. 8:14, “For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God”? How can the Apostle John tell us in John 1:12,

            12 But as many as received Him [Jesus], to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name?

            The simple answer to this seeming contradiction is that when these words were written–and even to the present day–Jesus was the only-begotten Son of God. We who believe in Him are in training to become the sons of God.

          • Glory

            Any more questions? Then there are tons of bible commentaries online usually explaining by verse. But gotquestions is easy to use.

          • Glory

            It doesn’t matter if you ignore me or not. I am leaving. I run into so few genuine seekers online but so many trolls that online hardly seems worth my time any more. In a day or two I will be closing my account. I just left it up for you to get the Bema post.

            May His Grace Abound To You!

          • You keep saying that you are leaving, but you keep coming back to spout your nonsense.

          • Glory

            Tinny, you might want to read up on atheism’s historical revisionism. Dinesh D’Souza has quite a lot to say about atheistic regimes crimes which most online atheists act like they are oblivious of.

            Pretend you are a Christian and visit some atheist blogs under another avatar name so you can witness their behavior.

            pud and John Arthur act like a totalitarian pair of atheists Nazis on this Christian Crier blog. They have invaded this blog and stay on it to try to force their thinking on people while they insult them, too.

            I never saw a Nazi as rational but I suspect atheists tout “rationalism” the way the Nazis touted “Aryanism”.

            They are so blocked by their own ideology they don’t see how rude their behavior is and it makes them blind to atheism’s crimes.

            You had to be an atheist to rise in the political ranks of communism in the Soviet Union.

            Don’t neglect to notice how abusive and overly zealous some of the atheists are who troll Patheos.

            And they are trolls because in an online community the trolls always come on to make a scene and upset the community that is different from themself.

            I am waiting on disqus to close my account. I have had my fill of xenophobic, psychopathic, narcissistic, atheist nazi trolls who have no respect for other people but want to force their thinking on them.

            I believe the concept of a gentleman comes directly from Christ’s character as expressed in Philippians 2.

            Christianity has been so important to western civilization it is a pity that we have to put up with atheist nazis soapboxing because all these atheist nazis want to do is destroy civilization and remake it in their own image like the atheist communists tried to do in the Soviet Union when they killed tens of millions of believers.

            Go to conservapedia and dig up the historical revisionism article. Then read what D’Souza has to say. God sent Jesus to make this world a better place but there are always these malcontents who think they are smarter than God who won’t respect other people’s personal boundaries. They even want to invade their minds and take them over and they get mad when you refuse to allow them to do that like frustrated control freaks.

            Don’t debate them or exchange ideas with them. Observe and study these atheist nazis because there is a militant strand of them online who refuses to respect people different from themselves and in many cases the people they disrespect may be better than themselves. pud has been stalking Pastor Wellman for years insulting him and that is not a rational act.

            Have a blessed day! And watch out for the militant troll atheists. They are all over blogs on the Net and they want to take away your right to be born again spiritually. The right that Jesus died on the Cross to give you. See John 3 on it.

          • TinnyWhistler

            Glory, I’m not going to judge an entire group of people based on their internet trolls. I’m not going to judge atheists as a group based on pud any more than I’m going to judge Christians as a group based on See Nuevo (or whatever his name is)

            Have you SERIOUSLY never come across Christian trolls on Patheos, or anywhere else? They’re quite common. Trolls in general are common. Being a Christian doesn’t make someone immune from being a jerk any more than being an atheist does.

            The fact that you want me to use conservapedia as a serious source makes me distrust everything you’ve ever tried to show me, and I’m not going to argue with you about that. This is the last time I’ll reply to you in this thread, period.

          • Glory

            Nevermind. No longer talking to you. You aren’t observant enough.

            Life isn’t all arguments you know. Arguments can be based on misassumptions.

            God never tells us to ask for arguments. He tells us to ask for discernment/perception.

            The historical facts are there whether the source is conservapedia or not. In fact you could have gotten the facts from them then verified them against an independent source but you would rather be blind to the fact that Christianity is a lot better philosophy of life than atheism is and makes the world a better place.

            Examine yourself for why you want to remain blind.

            Bye! God Bless.

          • Glory

            And I haven’t seen any Christian trolls because I used to spend most time online dialoging with unbelievers so they could be saved.

            If they exist then they may not be true Christians. They may be the ones that Christ says he never knew. They may not have repented and had a true change of heart yet. They may be immature and just pulling a prank.

            That’s one reason I read the Bible. God said people are fooled by appearances but only He can read a heart.

            He also said not to get yoked with unbelievers. Not everyone operates from a good heart motive or a good value system so why get tied up with them?

          • Glory

            You don’t have to judge anyone. God has already said we are all sinners.

            There are the people who get their heart right with God and those that don’t and no arguing necessary.

            You either believe God or you don’t. You are either with Him or against Him. No fence sitting according to Jesus and you can find the verse where he says that.

            Have a blessed day.

      • Myles

        You poor dear.

  • Myles