On Christ the Solid Rock I Stand

On Christ the Solid Rock I Stand March 4, 2019

Where you stand on Christ will determine whether you fall or not.

The Solid Rock

The old hymn, Rock of Ages, refers to Jesus as a cleft for letting us hide in Him, “as the water and the blood, from Thy wounded side which flowed, Be of sin the double cure, save from wrath and make me pure,” and it does purify us in God’s sight. The Apostle Paul says that it was “For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Cor 5:21). Then there is the old hymn, The Solid Rock, which specifies that “on Christ, the solid rock, I stand; All other ground is sinking sand.” Jesus spoke about those who build their house upon sinking sand, and those who build upon the Rock. In due time, all others will sink, but those who trust in the Rock shall never be disappointed (Rom 9:23, 10:11). Every other world religious leader of the past has died and is buried, and none ever claimed to be “the way, the truth and the life” (John 14:6). None ever conquered the grave. The Scripture says, “God raised him up, loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it” (Acts 2:24). The wages of sin is death, but since Jesus never sinned, the grave couldn’t hold Him. It was just not possible.

Rock of Ages

When Jesus told the Jews that “before Abraham was, I AM” (John 8:48-59), the Jews took up stones to try and kill Him. They were so angered because that was the covenantal name of God, but Jesus was telling them the truth. God made Himself know to Moses as, “I Am that I AM” (Ex 3:14), and interestingly, there are seven “I AM’s” in the Gospels which Jesus uses for Himself. Jesus would also forgive sins and that really irked them. That was something that only God could do, but Jesus as God could forgive sins, and He could also refer to Himself as “I AM,” because He was! And He is! He did exist before Abraham, but also in Abraham’s day. He is without beginning and without end. Jesus is God and since God is eternal, Jesus was before anything existed (John 1:-2). The Bible even says, “All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made” (John 1:3). The Jews just could not accept that fact. When the Apostle Paul was referring to the children of Israel, and in the context of speaking of Christ, he wrote, “They all ate the same spiritual food and they all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ” (1 Cor 10:3-4). This is He of which the Scriptures testify which “opened the rock, and water gushed out; it flowed through the desert like a river” (Psalm 105:41).

Christ the Rock

We have already read that Christ was that Rock in ancient times, but there’s another reference to Jesus, where Jesus asks the chief priests and the elders, “Have you never read in the Scriptures: The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; this was the Lord’s doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes” (Matt 21:42). After this, He adds as a warning, “the one who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; and when it falls on anyone, it will crush him” (Matt 21:44). It’s like the relationship you might have had with Aslan in the Chronicles of Narnia. Was he safe? It depends upon your relationship to him, and so it is with Jesus Christ. He isn’t safe if you haven’t repented and trusted in Him. If we choose to fall on this stone, we will be broken or crushed, but God saves the crushed and brokenhearted (Psalm 34:18), however, that same Stone will fall upon those who reject Him, and that will be a crushing judgment from which no one will recover.

God our Rock

The psalmist understood what the Rock meant to him, writing, “The Lord is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer, my God, my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold” (Psalm 18:2). That’s why he could confidently say, “you are my rock and my fortress; and for your name’s sake you lead me and guide me” (Psalm 31:3).  Jesus tells us that if we build upon any other foundation, our house will fall. If you insist on going your own way, you will be “like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when a flood arose, the stream broke against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built” (Luke 6:48), so “the one who hears and does not do them is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. When the stream broke against it, immediately it fell, and the ruin of that house was great” (Luke 6:49).


There is no Man in history that has brought more change and more controversy to the world than Jesus Christ. He has caused many to be offended, but many others to be saved, but you might notice that Jesus spoke some very hard words to very hard hearts (i.e., Jewish religious leaders) but He spoke very soft words to very soft hearts (to the brokenhearted & repentant). Still today, He is willing to receive all that come to him. He says to you and to all, “Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light” (Matt 11:28-30). Today is the best of days for you to be saved (2 Cor 6:2). Wait, and it could be too late (Heb 9:27). Put your trust in the Savior today and stand firm on that Solid Rock. That Rock which is Christ.

Article by Jack Wellman

Jack Wellman is Pastor of the Mulvane Brethren Church in Mulvane Kansas. Jack is a writer at Christian Quotes and also the Senior Writer at What Christians Want To Know whose mission is to equip, encourage, and energize Christians and to address questions about the believer’s daily walk with God and the Bible. You can follow Jack on Christian Crier or check out his book Teaching Children the Gospel available on Amazon.

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  • Andres Desaya

    Well are so much blessed, we know personally who the Rock is…Thank You Jesus Our Lord and Saviour.

    • Jack Wellman

      Amen my friend. We stand on solid ground

      • Andres Desaya

        Yes, we are not trials and disappointments free but still we stand on a Solid Ground!

        (Unfortunately, our friend here name PUD is being used by satan trying to shake this Solid Rock but as usual to no avail)

        • pud

          Demonstrate that any such character as “satan” exists…waiting…

          • Andres Desaya

            He is in You! he is behind you in all of the things you do here. You are allowing him…

          • pud

            OH NO!

            Demonstrate that any such character as “satan” exists….still waiting…

          • Andres Desaya

            O, Yes! you are allowing him. Bye..

          • pud

            Run Away! Demonstrate that any “him” exists….try. Even a low IQ gullible nitwit such as yourself will see that you can’t…proof positive that you’re delusional and only want to believe what you want to believe truth be damned

          • Andres Desaya

            You are the demonstration of Satan…a loser! Who lost it all when He thought He is smarter than God…dwell with Satan, if that is your choice. Go look for a job, just go look…it will help.

          • pud

            Show that any such “god” or “satan” actually exists. Demonstrate that your “claims” of such are actually true. Let me wager…FAIL!

          • Andres Desaya

            You already bet on Satan, that is why you are a failure!

          • pud

            Demonstrate/Show that any such character as “satan” actually exists and that your claims are true….why do you avoid the question?

          • Andres Desaya

            It is demonstrated in you..you do not know how you feel as a failure?..again if you want to see it personally, go to the mirror and then tell me what you see. And that is the demonstration first hand…you see what you want demonstrated…it is in You, it is you, PUD, that obvious,. Just Admit It. Bye…

          • pud

            Have a good day at work…don’t forget your paper hat and be careful not to burn yourself making the fries

          • Kevin

            Your anger and arguments to refute God (and prove His non-existence) are
            a solid testament to an inner belief that you harbor yourself… If
            God didn’t exist then why are you here with your hatred… If God
            doesn’t exist in your heart,,, why bother with an argument to refute

          • pud

            Not anger…contempt

            Good question though…

            I am here just like someone fighting alcoholism would go to the pubs not the chrurches

            I am here because you vote your delusional ideology and lie to children. Two things I have no tolerance for.

            I am here because I abhor ignorance, stupidity, superstition and cults of all kinds including yours

          • Kevin

            Being contemptuous is in the fallen nature of every human being… Looking for relief from that yoke can take two paths… Good or Evil… We have a choice from one moment to the next with either… Something tells me that you really know God and He “has let you down” in your heart of hearts… Struggling with some circumstance or trial often leads to blame and mans inclination is to be contemptuous (selfish) in dealing with others that may well be struggling too… Have you ever thought of that… One thing I have come to know is that GOD is never in an argument between men… Men that think they know better than God are in the argument.

          • pud

            There’s little you lunatics can’t make up and “believe” is there?

            Demonstrate that any “god” past or present ever existed/exists….Failing that you have nothing

            You “know” nothing…you “believe” ridiculous nonsense…fixed it for you

          • Kevin

            Look up and study the Intrinsic and the Extrinsic pathway of blood coagulation… See how intricate and delicate of a balance there is between bleeding to death and dying from a pulmonary infarct. How those pathways interact is proof of a creator. I could give you many more “discoveries of men” (lower case intended) in science and medicine that prove that all of this that we call life was no accident.

          • pud

            No it isn’t. It’s your ignorance providing a juvenile answer because you require a bad answer to no answer. The evolution of the blood and circulartory system is well understood. Don’t be so intellectually lazy. Arguments from ignorance are logical fallacies

            The evolution of life isn’t an “accident” only you cult members use terms like that.

          • Kevin

            PUD… one thing we all can admit freely… We are all ignorant… Stupidity shows it’s evil head when we think we are not.

          • pud

            Rational people have no problem with admitting ignorance. Religious people insist that the answer to everything is “god did it”…ignorance vs. stupidity

          • Kevin

            Had to restate this as I was leaving….

            A “juvenile answer” like the one above is really calling it like it
            is… What we need to try to understand is that “understanding”
            something from the scientific approach only exemplifies the ignorance
            and lack of understanding of the point that mankind is taking credit for
            and leaving the perfect creation and creator out of the conversation…
            Or as you refuse call it: “PROOF” of a living God and Creator.

            Take care of yourself, and enjoy those reading assignments:)

          • Kevin

            A “juvenile answer” like the one above is really calling it like it is… What we need to try to understand is that “understanding” something from the scientific approach only exemplifies the ignorance and lack of understanding of the point that mankind is taking credit for and leaving the perfect creation and creator out of the conversation.

          • Kevin

            Gotta go… Look forward to your thoughts on the reading and study material… God Bless

          • pud


            Demonstrate the existence of a “creation” or a “creator”….don’t reply with anything else..I will not engage in babble…answer me and demonstrate the truth of your claim

          • Kevin

            Babble has fallen long ago… The Truth needs to be known… Science is mans’ vain attempt to understand what God has made perfect 🙂

          • pud

            This is your last chance…I will not reply to stupid babble

            Demonstrate that any such “creation” took place

            Demonstrate that any such “creator” exist/existed

            Demonstrate the existence of any “god” past or present

            If you do not I will not reply again

          • Kevin

            Back… for a minute… Enjoy your reading… (hope you don’t shut me out of your life… we all need to face our-self so that we can help others) It might shed some light and truth in our lives and give us a better understanding of the Living Proof that there is a God that merits more of mankind’s attention. Another place to see God up close and personal is looking directly into the eye of a newborn Elk calf and understanding “how it all works” from a scientist’s perspective:) NOT AN ACCIDENT and looking at things through a child’s eyes literally and figuratively… Maybe I should take your Juvenile remark as a compliment 🙂

          • Kevin

            “This is your last chance…I will not reply to stupid babble

            Demonstrate that any such “creation” took place

            Demonstrate that any such “creator” exist/existed

            Demonstrate the existence of any “god” past or present

            If you do not I will not reply again”

            PUD, I took the time to look up one of our reading assignments… Pride of the Heart Deceives…


            God knows I needed to re-read it too… Let me know what you think 🙂

          • Kevin

            PUD Your reading assignment is Mere Christianity, The Pride of the Heart Deceives, and a complete under standing of blood and it’s ability to clot or bleed… Seeing God and the proof of a living God saturates our planet… We only have to open our eyes and hearts to see it… Science is nothing more than man discovering (usually claiming as his own and selling it) and understanding something already there that God has made perfect.

          • Kevin

            How does this work like it does??? And when something goes wrong with one small part there is tragedy…
            ANSWER: Perfect design by a perfect Creator.


          • Kevin

            Two old and long dead authors that have put down in words the struggle that we have as mere men…

            C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

            Charles Finney, The Pride of the Heart Deceives

            Good reading… neither author really seeks to make one feel better about themselves…

          • PietStassen

            Pud … you say that you abhor ignorance and stupidity … shouldn’t the word ‘chrurches’ read ‘churches’? You cannot even spell the word but you want to lecture educated people on religion and Christianity?

          • pud

            LOL..Go grade the 1000s of posts I’ve made and get back to me on how many typos I have. What a stupid useless inane comment

          • Kevin

            I might add…. that Satan is right there in the middle of your argument too…

          • PietStassen

            Reminder #2:
            Evangelical Christians should be very wary of this Patheos blog-page:
            The Blog Administrator (or some cyber-hacker overriding cyber-security) allows pro-Evangelical posts-comments to be erased and removed. Makes one wonder if it really is an Evangelical blog-page.
            ‘Mene mene tekel upharsin’: This blog-page has been weighed and found wanting.

      • pud

        Demonstrate janitor jack the cowardly pastor that ANYTHING you babble is actually true. Just one thing will do….waiting….why are you so cowardly jack? Don’t you have the “gift” of the “holy spirit”? You should be able to chew me up and spit me out with infintie rational arguments yet you cower? Why jack why?

    • pud

      No you don’t. You pretend to know. You can show nothing you babble about to be actually true and like janitor jack you don’t care.

      • Andres Desaya

        Yes, I do. Who are you to say that I only pretend to know. Speak only for yourself, Do Not speak for others.
        PUD, are you still jobless? It is about time you look for job rather come here expressing your hatred. Express your hatred somewhere else. You are asking not to be welcomed here.

        If you are disappointed with God because He did not fulfill your expectations,….GO LOOK FOR A JOB!! Are you not embarrassed for being jobless for a longtime? and expressing your frustrations here…go somewhere else!

        And I pray that God will help you this time.

        • pud

          Demonstrate that any “god” past or present has ever exited…..waiting….

          Since you CAN’T then by default you are pretending.

          Have no idea where you got the “Jobless” crap from but you lunatics are prone to making a lot of shit up aren’t you?

          • Andres Desaya

            He is the same ONE who died in the cross 2,000 years ago, He walks with me and talks with me, and He helps me..

            **PUD, just ask Him to help you too look for a job will you?

            JOB the 18th book of the Bible was tested to the core, and he passed, why can’t you PUD?

          • pud

            Can you read? Do you know the difference between a “claim” “assertion” and a FACT? I think not

            Demonstrate that any human blood sacrifice took place and that it had magical properties…waiting

            Revering magical human blood sacrifice is sick.

          • Andres Desaya

            Argue with yourself… bye!

          • pud

            Yep, another cowardly delusional loser sulks off because they know that they actually know jack shit.

          • Andres Desaya

            Just go look at yourself at the mirror, will you? You can see the real coward..you can see who the real loser.. you can’t lie to yourself.

            (Bye…no one wants to talk to argue with a loser, come on.. just look for a job will you?)

          • pud

            Don’t need to…I have more money than “god” LOL

          • Andres Desaya

            I also said, I talk and walk with Him personally. No one can dispute something personal.

          • pud

            You make believe absurdities. You are delusional. Thousands of people say they were abducted by aliens…is this true? They said they personally were? See how truly stupid you are yet?

            People who CLAIM to “personally” walk and talk with invisible undetectable agents are generally considered psychotic…you might want to get that checked out

          • Andres Desaya

            Again, speak for yourself.. There is a big difference between aliens and friendship between human and God, much more in a personal stance. It is a relatiionship that is a gift from above, I have that privilege to have that given to me as I journey in this earthly life.

            King David is one who has been given that gift too. God loved Him because because of his longing for this friendly relationship, and willing to obey, follow and please God. It is a personal touch that God can only share.

            I am one of these fortunate ones to receive this Divine gifts, so you can not speak for me. It is very personal.

            Big big diffrence from where you want to project. It is not too late for you to start anew loving relationship…like king David, he was disappointed too many times when years before He was crown king, he was hunted by Saul like an animal.

            Like any relationship..even with God, it takes effort to create a real one, God is a tester, He wants a relationship that is not based superficially. Job passed, king David passed..and you can too. Just try PUD, and everything will be alright. Trust and obey…

          • pud

            Oh really? Do aliens exist and abduct people as thousands have claimed? How do you know if they are true claims or not?

            You are a posterchild for religious cults everywhere….Do not think! Do as we say! Believe what we tell you! Obey!

            Sorry simple minded one….If you can’t show it you don’t know it.

          • Andres Desaya

            If you only want to believe what you know and see, then so be it….if you are a loser, just continue to be a loser PUD, I don’t need you to believe what I say for me to acknowledge God has blessed me.

            If you chose to be a loser then that is your choice. Don’t drag everyone to see what you can’t or refuse to see. It is your life, not my life. I can only share what goodness I experienced, but if you don’t want it, unfortunately, no one can force you. Stay away from sites like these.

            Rather go look for a job rather than wasting your time hating people here. Bye…

          • pud

            You’re right! From now on I’m going to “believe” in unicorns, trolls, the Loch Ness Monster, fairies, pixies, hanuman the monkey god and I don’t care if any of it is demonstrably true! Unicorns have blessed me! From now on to hell with that evidence stuff! I don’t care what can be shown to be true cuz I’m blessed by a unicorn!

          • Andres Desaya

            Well, if you want to believe you are a unicorn, trolls, dwarfs, fairies etc. that is your choice. It has nothing to do with my relationship with Christ.

            (Like I have said, if you have a job, satan won’t have a playground in your mind making you look like a loser of choice. You pathetic one, come out of it!) Bye..bye, you don’t want humiliating yourself here. Bye..Bye..

          • pud

            How come your “god” blessed you but let a tornado kill 4 children in Alabama this week? Insert ridiculous stupid answer here______

          • Andres Desaya

            We are still in a cursed state of this earthly life, I have felt many curses too of this tragic state we are in because we were separated with God because of our fallen nature. But it is just temporary because of the story of our redemption by Christ. I am not a preacher, as a previous believer, you know the rest of the story…I don’t need to preach to you.

          • pud

            Bullshit. Bullshit from your book of fables and the doctrine of your absurd infantile retarded cult.

            I never was, am not and never will be a “believer” in anything. There is nothing too stupid, ridiculous or absurd that someone couldn’t “believe” in it. “Belief” is gullibility, delusion and intellectual laziness. You can “say” any ridiculous things you want but they remain ridiculous until and unless you can demonstrate objectively that they are true. You cannot. You are willfully delusional and have no interest in being otherwise. You favor wish thinking and make believe over reality. Sad

          • Andres Desaya

            You asked a question, I just answered it.

            Basing by your stance, it is your choice to stay the way you are. Jobless, harboring hatred in your heart, waking in the morning with everyday pain, almost cursed to the ground. You are right, SAD for you.

            A sour former believer. Enjoy your misery if that is what you want. Bye now.

          • Andres,

            Don’t you believe that you should not bear false witness? You assert that Pud is jobless, that he is a former believer, and that he is “waking in the morning with everyday pain”. If you don’t know who Pud really is, how can you possibly know these things? Aren’t you bearing false witness by claiming these things, if they are not factual? Doesn’t your Jesus really mean anything to you? Guessing things about Pud is not a path to “truth”!

          • Andres Desaya

            Thanks for your concern, but ask PUD himself about him becoming a sour believer and being jobless. My sources knows him.

            And yes, Jesus means a lot to me that is why I disagree with all PUD’s accusations about my God and Saviour, and that is the reason why I always tell him that God is a tester of our faith and we should contiune believing and worshiping Him despite life’s disappointments.

            One thing I noticed about him..he is full of pride, a character that became Satan’s downfall…and yes, what he needs is our prayers for him to change his heart from bitterness to thankfulness.

          • Jack Wellman

            There is no room for pride when grace is at stake (James 4:6). Keep praying for Pud and Arthur, as even a Saul can become a Paul.

          • Theodore A. Jones

            “For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.” Rom. 2:13

          • Andres Desaya

            Yes, will try to pray for him instead (but sometimes, I can’t help to fight fire with fire.)

          • Theodore A. Jones

            “For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.” Rom. 2:13

          • Which sources are they? Are your sources reliable? I can’t see how any sources can know who he really is, since Pud is his internet name, not his real name. So isn’t it bearing false witness to make allegations without knowing whether they are factual? You know that the Jesus of the bible is against bearing false witness, so if Jesus really means something to you, wouldn’t you desist from making statements about Pud that your sources couldn’t possibly know are true?

          • Andres Desaya

            You can ask PUD yourself if what my sources tell me is true. He does not deny it. Just ask him will you? He is a jobless former believer who became sour on what he believed before because God did not meet his expectations.

            The outcome now is hatred and envy to Pastor Wellman and anything to do with the Divine. He should have continued his faith to the Lord as Saviour and he would not be waking up miserable, hating and hopeless every morning. Just ask PUD yourself, it is hard for him to deny it.

            You seem to idolize a miserable jobless wretch that he is. If you do, discontinue, there are many great believers who got disaapointed but continued to believe and was redeemed and even blessed.

            **John Arthur, you know better than idolizing PUD..a loser, you might end up a loser like him, or are you too already? Get away from him for your own sakes. FYI, PUD is also someone who is a #’s in name, pleading me not to stop him and to stop exposing his current state and of being non-productive***

            Christ is a winner and very weallthy and blesses me as a champion! I’m under His wings. He redeemed me from ignorance and incapacity.

          • Theodore A. Jones

            PUD? A minor insignificance. Wellman’s problem is the existence of Romans 2:13.

          • Andres Desaya

            I am not undermining your seemingly favorite verse but as humans more the more
            specifically in the christian faith, and knowing how sinful we are, we have to understand that not even our best efforts in following the law does not make us righteous in the sight of God if not because if the blood of Christ shed in the cross.

            As “we are all unclean, as our righteousness are like filthy rags..” Isaiah 64.6. Thank you Jesus..it is not what we do but what You did in the cross.. “Amazing Grace..receiving forgiveness and Love that we don’t deserve”.

          • Theodore A. Jones

            You and Wellman are undermining the validity of Paul’s teaching of the Way God has determined for anyone to receive the blessing from Him of being declared righteous by Him.

          • Matthew 22:37

            You know what? You are ineffective on the Net because nobody ever knows what point you are trying to make.

            Who goes around quoting one verse dogmatically with no attempt at all to explain things in detail?

            If you have the gift of teaching then teach. Because you certainly have been nothing but cryptic on your blogs posts as far as I can tell.

            Another thing. You make no allowances for the spiritual growth curve.

            Internet blogs are worse than 1 room school houses when it comes to spiritual maturity.

            You assume everyone knows what you are talking about and you fail to communicate when they don’t.

            Have a blessed day! You might want to reconsider your gifts or calling. How can it be teaching if you are the silent type and not apt to explain things?

            Teaching can be demanding work in spite of how this world likes to put teachers down.

          • Theodore A. Jones

            You haven’t read all of the statements I’ve posted and I haven’t been silent about the major problem the existence of Rom. 2:13 does to the false soteriological assumption of substitutionary atonement.

          • Matthew 22:37

            I know I haven’t read all of your statements that’s why your brevity is bothersome. And this constant one verse quoting.

            Are you only speaking to a select few? How do you know who is reading you and comprehending when you don’t dialog with them? Or bother to explain your point of view.

            I have read a lot of biblical points of view and found flaws in most of them. Sometimes minor ones and sometimes major ones and that ought to tell you there is a spiritual growth curve. People don’t all analyze identically. The main thing is they know Jesus Christ came in the flesh and rose from the dead. If you don’t understand and accept that then you don’t even have foundational knowledge on which to understand God’s perspective more fully. Much less that Romans verse you keep quoting.

            This blog is loaded with people disputing the existence of Jesus and you aren’t making any attempt to correct them. Just leaving them to the mercy of the devil while he plays havoc in their thoughtlives.

            Try explaining things more. It makes you refine your own thinking more and allows the devil less leeway to play around in people’s minds.

            God Bless!

          • Theodore A. Jones

            Why is it Paul’s soteriological position that a law must be obeyed or you will not be declared righteous by God?

          • Matthew 22:37

            I do not remember off the top of my head. But I read Dr. Jones Deuteronomy Series a while back.

            Christ kept the laws perfectly but then he had a full meausure of the spirit.

            I have read contrary opinions on keeping the law so I am still sorting it out for myself.

          • Theodore A. Jones

            Who in Sam’s hill is Dr. Jones?

          • Theodore A. Jones

            Suggest you don’t use a lot of time sorting. None of us are guaranteed tomorrow.

          • Matthew 22:37

            I suggest you read Jesus’ words. He simplified keeping the Law for Christians by saying there are only two commandments we have to keep.

            The ancient Hebrews had the Ten Commandments and 613 mitzvot. Why spend all my time determining which of those 613 to keep since some of them are now obsolete.

            I don’t have to when Christ said there were only 2 really.

            In the Old Testament God may have circumscribed human behavior more because His people did not have Jesus in them to keep Satan out of their thoughtlives.

            Satan is the strong man. Jesus is the stronger man.

            The more obedient followers know to obey God. They know His nature so why nitpick the law. If you love people like Jesus said then you are practicing the weightier matters of the law which are mercy and grace.

            Today Christians who claim to keep the 613 mitzvot probably are not keeping it. Not if they eat in restaurants. Even if they don’t eat pork they still did not keep kosher because the tools to prepare food in a restaurant are not kept kosher.

            You had better be careful what burdens you cast on people. Sometimes people can consult God and the Bible and figure things out for themselves.

            Instead of correcting Christians so much why don’t you spend more time helping Christ kick the devil out of unbelievers thoughtlives. Aren’t they being owned by the devil intellectually and wasn’t the Gospel given to set them free?

          • Matthew 22:37

            Don’t Save It All For Christmas Day, Avalon

          • Matthew 22:37

            The Great Commandment
            34 But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question to test him. 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

          • Matthew 22:37

            No, I haven’t read all your statements to know what you’ve posted but I think you should put your talents to work correcting the thoughtlives of some of these people enslaved to the devil through sin.

            Christ did come to destroy the works of the devil, didn’t he?

            How about putting yourself to work helping Christ destroy the evil ideas overruning some people’s minds so they do not stay enslaved to the devil in their thoughtlives.

            Then you’ll be a soul winner.

          • Andres Desaya

            No, we are acknowledging that even though we try to follow all the rules and laws..”we fall short of the Glory of God..” Romans 3:23. “As it is also written, no one is righteous..no one understands..no one does good, not even one” Romans 3 10-12.

            Personally, it is safer to claim amazing grace rather than to claimi righteousness to receive blessings.

          • Theodore A. Jones

            “For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.” Rom. 2:13, and there are no exceptions.

          • Andres Desaya

            You are right, no one is exempted by the rules but no one passes the rules either. That is why I agree with Pastor Wellman that on Christ the Solid Rock will cleanse my inability to be righteous, sinful as I am.

            Theodore, I would rather be like king David whom God calls “the man who is after my heart”, always acknowledging his weaknesses and failures, and asking God for His understanding and forgiveness, which is why king David is one of His favorites.

            I would rather stay away from the style of the Pharisees trying to be righteous by focusing on the rules. Jesus disagreed with them, even called them hypocrites.

            I believe, He rather asked us to love and obey Him as God and ask Him ” create in us a clean heart”, and seek Him as best friend. ..understanding and forgiving.

          • Theodore A. Jones

            Sweets. If you don’t have the faith to obey the law Paul references in Rom. 2:13, you fry.

          • Andres Desaya

            We don’t have faith in obeying the law, we have faith Jesus Christ redeeming power.

            But anyway, are you able to enumerate the Laws here so that we will not fry, if ever?

          • Theodore A. Jones

            “For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.” Rom. 2:13

          • Andres Desaya

            Yet again, take note that your verse was followed by the same writer that “everyone is short of the glory of God..” Romans 3:23,

            And “no one is righteous…not even one..” Romans 3:10-12,

            And even the prophet Isaiah said “it is written..our righteousness is consdered as filthy rags”…Isaiah 64:6

            And “Jesus said, Confess and I will clean all your unrighteousness…” 1John 1:9.

            “Dear Jesus thank you for cleansing us for all our unrighteousness” Amen.

          • Theodore A. Jones

            You have got to be the stupidest imbecile I have ever crossed paths with. GET THESE TWO FACTS!! THROUGH YOUR BRICK HEAD!!! I AM NOT THE AUTHOR OF ROM. 2:13. THE APOSTLE PAUL IS THE AUTHOR OF ROM. 2:13 and YOUR PROTEST IS SPECIFICALLY AGAINST WHAT HE HAS STATED!!!!!

          • Andres Desaya

            Be smart to decipher, when I say “your verse”, it does not mean you wrote it, it meant the verse you quoted, that is why I further stated, the same author also wrote, Romans 3:23 and Romans 3:10-12.

            If you are very smart to call me imbecele, why can’t you even understand the context of what I wrote. And why would you even think that I think you are the author of Romans 2:13…and what the author wants us to understand by reading all the verses that follows.

            Are you sure you can really be righteous in the presence of a Holy God? Even if you proclaim your righteousness by following all rules the prophet Isaiah says ” It is written, all your righteousness are still considered filthy rags…” Isaiah 64:6.

            A thought to dwell on to know who we are in God’s sight, doomed..without Jesus blood. Thank You Jesus!

          • Theodore A. Jones

            Relying on the soteriological falsehood you have faith in is a ticket for a hell chute ride.

          • Andres Desaya

            Make sure then that you follow all rules so that you become so righteous and that your righteousness will send you to heaven. Congratulations, if you are able to work your way to heaven.

            For me and my fellow christians, we learned that we can’t…that is the reason Jesus as the Son of God has to shed His blood…only way for us to go to heaven.

            All our longings for you..that you follow all rules so that you reach heaven. More power to you!

            For us, Trust to the Power of Jesus Christ to save us!!

          • You can’t possibly know anything about Pud except what he writes about himself on the net. Where has Pud said that he is jobless? Where has Pud ever said that he was a sour believer? Where has Pud said that he wakes everyday with pain?

            Are you under Christ’s “wings” or are you bearing false witness? If you have no reliable sources, do you claim to be clairvoyant? And how reliable is this?

          • Andres Desaya

            For sure I am under Jesus Christ, I fly with him. I am blessed by Him. Just the opposite of your PUD your idol, unfortunately jobless, a sour disgruntled former believer.

            Ask PUD if he has an indian neighbour..mental anguish and pain everyday for PUD for not trusting God.

            Let me inform you that PUD your IDOL is a jobless man…just the opposite of Pastor Jack Wellman who is serving and working for the Lord, trusting Him, and happily blessed by Him.

            John Arthur, are you afraid to ask PUD your Idol and to know the truth?

          • Isn’t it your responsibility to check any statements you make as to their facticity, before you make your assertions? It’s not my responsibility to do your homework for you, since I didn’t make the assertions.

          • Andres Desaya

            You are the one questioning me the facts about PUD being jobless. If you do not believe me…why not ask him yourself for your contentment.

            I am not trying to prove anything to you…if you want to disprove me then ask PUD your idol yourself for your satisfaction. It is your responsiblity to yourself to disprove me.

            I know that, believe it or not, your IDOL PUD is jobless sour believer…Ask him if to satisfy your curiousity. Yes, PUD your idol can not even find a job…arrogant as he is here!

          • Theodore A. Jones

            PUD is not by any stretch a sour believer, and whether PUD is employed or jobless is immaterial.

          • Andres Desaya

            Yes, he is believer who became a sour believer because his expectations of God was not met. Yes, in the context of how he mocks believers as “losers, failures, bullshiting us…” is material because if he looks at the mirror then he can see himself as such…a failure and a loser, jobless person.

            But it is not too late for him if he acknowledges the goodness of God and not to mock and harden his heart. Examples of great redemptions is the story of Nebuchadnezzar and Job..

            It is true that God is the One who blesses or brings down believer for a good reason but the proud and arrogant God put them down to humble them…PUD stop mocking!!

            Humilty and repentance is the key…Jesus understands and forgives.

          • Theodore A. Jones

            Your, Wellman’s and PUD’s problem is the existence of “For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.” Rom. 2:13
            and hell chute carts are not all single seaters.

          • Andres Desaya

            I guess we are more comfortable to say, we are always short of following your rules and laws no matter how we try to do it, we asked for your understanding and forgiveness, and just pls. bless us by your amazing grace and unconditional love.

            Bottom line, it is God’s mercy and grace rather than our efforts. Thank you Lord!

          • Theodore A. Jones

            I am not the author of Rom. 2:13. So it is not me who wrote the ruling.

          • Andres Desaya

            Obviously you are not but it seems Romans 2:13 is your favorite verse, and thus being righteous must be your aim.

            Good for you if you can be as righteous as the Pharisees and the jews in Jesus time. I salute you. But for for me I would rather feel I am always short of being righteous no matter what I do, Romans 3:23, and I will never be righteous, Romans 3: 10-12.

            Lord although I try my best to follow thy laws I am always short to be righteous, pls. forgive me in Jesus name, amen.

          • Theodore A. Jones

            Nut case. Rom. 2:13 was written by the apostle Paul not me.

          • Andres Desaya

            Your thought is the nut case, why would you even think that I think you wrote Romans 2:13.

            Be smart to understand that there are succeeding verse by same author that explains more of the character of humanity…that is why your understanding of your favorite verse does not accentuate the reality of human trying to be righteous..as followed by Romans 3:23 and 3:10-12, or even Isaiah 64:6…

            Much more wrong by your belief, it seems that our righteous will ride us to heaven. It is only Christ who can save us!

          • pud

            I talk to and ride my invisible undetectable unicorn everyday to the chocolate fountain in the lollipop forest….No one can dispute this “personal” “belief”

          • Andres Desaya

            Yes, I believe that he lets you ride him everyday…and my personally my belief is his real name is satan…he outsmarts you. Secretly laughing at you and your miseries and hopelessness because you chose to…

            Sorrry, that is my personal belief that that is your choice. BYE you and your unicorn. Hopefully, it would not be late when you yourself will realize whom you are riding..

    • PietStassen

      Reminder #1:
      Evangelical Christians should be very wary of this Patheos blog-page:
      The Blog Administrator (or some cyber-hacker overriding cyber-security) allows pro-Evangelical posts-comments to be erased and removed. Makes one wonder if it really is an Evangelical blog-page.
      ‘Mene mene tekel upharsin’: This blog-page has been weighed and found wanting.

  • pud

    In order to “stand” on something or someone janitor jack…you have to show first that they/it exists. You “stand” on nothing but your imagination and the vacuous claims of delusional people. If you can’t show it, you don’t know it.

    There is no historical evidence for any such “jesus” character. He “said” nothing and did nothing. The no name authors of your fictional fable “said” he said this or that, did this or that but you KNOW absolutely nothing about the truth and veracity of those ancient religious lunatics claims. FACT…which you couldn’t care less about

    Nice ending touch with the “before it’s too late” threat….is that what you lie to children with?

    • Andres Desaya

      Yes, it is real, Pastor Wellman is on a Solid Ground, worshiping God and doing a good job.

      **Look at yourself PUD, just like the opposite..you are hating God, jobless, nursing hatred in your heart…that is real too, one cannot help to see you are standing on a mud satan created for you**

      Repent of your arrogance PUD, humble yourself and God will restore you…yes you can do it!!

      • pud

        Demonstrate that ANYTHING you “claim” or “assert” is actually “real”….waiting…

        I’m wealthy..I don’t need to work. Proof that you make shit up.

        • Andres Desaya

          God’s enemy is the Father of Lies, so your lie that you do not work because you are wealthy… that is proof. Go to the mirror now and see your face..it is “real”.

          Just stare at yourself in the mirror for full 5 minutes…and there..you can see a “real” evidence you are looking for. You don’t to look far…the evidence is in YOU!

          Bye!! don’t embarrass yourself more, bye, bye..

          • pud

            FAIL. As usual. Religious lunatics in their various lunatic religious cults CANNOT demonstrate the truth of ANYTHING they delusionnally “believe” in. Case closed…Game Set Match

          • Andres Desaya

            No, you are the failure, can’t you see, has Satan blinded you?

          • pud

            Demonstrate that this “claim” is true. Anyone can assert or claim anything….even ridiculous infantile shit as this….Show that your absurd claim is true….

          • Andres Desaya

            You are the DEMONSTRATION of that! Can’t you see?

      • Matthew 22:37

        After talking to pud for a really long time I have concluded he is best left alone. He seems to be suffering from a mental problem that he willfully ignores while trying to force it onto theists.

        If you read up on atheist mental statistics they have a higher suicide rate than theists plus their marriage and childbearing rates are a lot lower.

        There is most likely some mental integration problem behind that when you cannot form beneficial lasting relationships.

        It indicates dysfunctionality but some dysfunctional people suffer from the inability to admit their own dysfunctionality so they refuse treatment.

        At this point you may only be able to point a dysfunctional person who refuses to integrate in the right direction.

        Love seems to be a powerful force for mental integration but how can you integrate if you kick love out as personified by Jesus Christ.

        This arguing is all about a dysfunctional disintegrated person’s need to control someone healthier than himself. That’s why they usually become quarrels.

        Daniel Siegel writes books on brain science and he’s a Catholic.

        Who do you think knows more about mental integration, brain physiology and how the brain and mind works? Certainly not an atheist refusing to integrate mentally. Only God knows and He speaks authoritatively on the subject of sin in the Bible which causes a lot of mental and social problems and offers help in resolving it.

        Sin causes weakness and dysfunctionality.

        Why let a dysfunctional person think he is right?

        Tell him to get the beam out of his own eye. He should be able to psychoanalyze
        himself unless something is too broken. Or if he’s too narcissistic or has some other thing he is afraid of losing. If too narcissistic then he will only deny he’s broken and project his problem onto you while he protects his ego.

        This is their mental health. If they won’t seek to know the truth about themselves then how can you make them?

        There is an interesting article called “Is Atheism a mental illness?” by Dr. Greg Popcak on his Faith on the Couch blog.

        People like to kill messengers and the more mentally ill don’t like God telling them they are sinners.

        But the way to mental integration and a higher morality is through belief which allows one to form a relationship with God.

        Seriously, what adult insists on his own way like a 2 year old refusing to grow up. They have a mind/integration/heart problem but refused the solution to their own problem (sin) that keeps them slave to dysfunctionality.

        God told us not to be yoked with unbelievers, didn’t he? How can a functional and a dysfunctional person’s marriage survive? One party will be too dysfunctional and not loving and forgiving enough to make things work. The dysfunctional one will always have to give into his dysfunctionality then make it the functional party’s problem casting the burden onto the believer. Especially if he refuses to acknowledge he is dysfunctional/sinful.

        Have a blessed day! And don’t argue with them. They need to start to meditate and resolve these issues not keep making their issues a believer’s problem.

        Seriously, they would not listen to a loving God. They turned Him into the devil in their thoughtlives. So how can you help them?

        They have a spiritual integration problem. You cannot force someone to integrate.

        You can’t force anyone to rethink things either because they may be too egoically involved and invested in their own opinions whether or not that opinion is right. Though you could suggest that they need to.

        • Andres Desaya

          I read you, thanks for your advice. Actually, I ignored him for awhile, but I can’t help to be ambivalent to him. I dislike his arrogance and pride but I also pity him for his broken heart for being disappointed on his expectations of God. I try to emphasize to him that God is a tester and disappointments is part of our journey with Him.

          A great lesson for every believer that when disappointments comes in our way and our expectations is not met, we should put more faith and rely on Him more and more rather than being bitter and even worse like what PUD is doing…throwing away the LIGHT he once knew. We can just imagine how dark his world is everytime he wakes up in the morning.

          **on the other hand, we might give credit to ourselves too for trying to open his eyes and trust in God once again. unfortunately, pride and bitterness is destroying him. we should actually always pray for him. Thanks again Matthew**

          • Matthew 22:37

            You’re doing your best. I know. I tried to for a really long time but they just confirmed the wisdom of Romans 1 to me.

            They really have a lot in common with Nebuchaddnezzar or the Pharoah that Moses faced down.

            Nebuchadnezzar was made to eat grass like a depraved person for 7:years. They have this event recorded on a stone tablet in the British Museum.

            Pharoah was appealed to several time by Moses with miracles unsuccessfully then God hardened his heart. No going back for Pharroah any more. God was fully in control then.

            These internet atheists have been insisting believers prove God exists for years ignoring God’s testimony of Himself and scorning Christ’s work on the Cross for the world. That is a sign of a hardened heart.

            I just showed that theologically Christians have no burden of proof to Pud and philosophically there is none either. The militant atheists who want to rid the world of religion all just choose to argue from the same bad theological premises.

            You can google and read Criticism of Atheism on wikipedia dot org. Some philosophrs and the famous Christian apologist William Lane Craig clearly explain why theists have no more burden of proof to prove Jesus than an atheist does and probably less of one.

            Whately wrote a short essay explaining why Hume’s argument is wrong and applied by atheists inconsistently in an essay about Napoleon. If Hume’s thinking is followed then we would have to deny Napoleon existed but nobody denies he existed. They just like to bring this faulty rationalization of Hume’s selectively against Jesus Christ.

            What is all this quarrelsome arguing about? It is the militant atheists showing they cannot think for themselves. They are always spouting some New Atheist learned propaganda but pretending they are original thinkers.

            Keep thinking for yourself. It is terrible to see how blind they are.

            Both God and Satan have the power to blind people but some of the most blind like pud actually think they have the right to control others thinking and treat us with contempt when we do not allow that to happen.

            If you continue to dialog with these unbelievers you are definitely going to see the awfulness of this spiritual blindness. It affects them socially. Far, far too many of them use their intellects inappropriately socially and researchers are drawing comparisons between them and autism and other mental health issues.

            Have a good day. They do need evangelizing. Just realize they are the hard cases. Who lets sin control him voluntarily without a fight? But that is exactly what they have done. No wonder they are blind and cannot be reasoned with.
            They have been letting the world sow anti-God ideas in their heads without any resistance to those ideas for a long time now and so they reaped mental blindness.

            They need to repent. So I don’t spare the truth or pull any punches any more.

            The kind of mental blindness that pud suffers from I consider an emergency last ditch situation.

            Seriously, what sane person attributes the devil’s nature to God with the devil still at loose in the world.

            Clearly they are spiritually-mentally blind. Spouting propaganda like a Nazi all over the internet and the unsuspecting minds who never learned to think for themselves or guard their hearts or how to put on the whole armor of God might be vulnerable to this nonsense.

            So keep on loving Jesus and thinking for yourself. This world is a beast to tame and bring up to Christ’s standard.

            Imagine. pud calls Christians cowards when they survived being thrown to lions and they feed Christians grass in camps in North Korea today.

            The faith of a Christian is truly supernatual when you look into the history of Christian persecution and see what Christians have withstood but still went right on beliieving in God and Jesus.

            This New Atheism web mockery is just one of the latest manifestations of the unbelieving world’s perscution of Christians. They just intellecqtualized it so they could feel superior while they carried the persecution out just like Hitler did making up his Aryan fantasy so he could try and bring the world into beastlike submission to himself.

            Have a blessed day!

          • Matthew 22:37

            God could be using him to reveal more things to you.

          • Andres Desaya

            Yes, for sure, thanks for the insight. As we mirror ourselves to others, we see our weaknesses, our lack of faith and hardheadedness too.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Here’s a good one to read by David Sielaff. Only a few pages.

            Your Resurrection

          • Matthew 22:37

            Here is a good one: Scientific Proof Is A Myth by Ethan Siegel on Forbes dot com.

            Be sure to post the link liberally all over the Net. Particularly when you run into an atheist pushing the burden of proof on you.

            Einstein is quoted in the article saying:

            The scientific theorist is not to be envied. For Nature, or more precisely experiment, is an inexorable and not very friendly judge of his work. It never says “Yes” to a theory. In the most favorable cases it says “Maybe,” and in the great majority of cases simply “No.” If an experiment agrees with a theory it means for the latter “Maybe,” and if it does not agree it means “No.” Probably every theory will someday experience its “No”—most theories, soon after conception.

            Scientific Proof Is A Myth

    • Joshua Sonofnone

      Hello, Pud! There is indeed historical evidence for the existence of Jesus of Nazareth, who was called Christ. There are sources in which his birth, ministry, death, and resurrection are confirmed. These writings include the works of Flavius Josephus (AD 93), the Babylonian Talmud (AD 70-200), Pliny the Younger’s letter to Emperor Trajan (circa 100 AD), the Annals of Tacitus (115-117 AD), Mara Bar Serapion (sometime after 73 AD), and Suetonias’ Life of Claudius and Life of Nero (120 AD). I challenge you to prove that this evidence does not exist.

      • pud

        You would be well advised to go back to school and/or not get your information from religious liars. As you can see by the dates NONE of them were contemporary…were they? So they are eyewitness to nothing. Joesphus has forgeries often cited by religious liars and the only thing he ever recorded was the existence of the early christian cult. So, sir, not one citation you offer is “evidence” of anything.

        There is NO contemporary evidence for the existence of any jesus…let alone any of the superstitious nonsense you claim. Full stop. Period. Hearsay, records of a religious cult are NOT evidence of any such individual.

        The ONLY thing that exists is your story book. That’s it. There is nothing else whatsoever. A storybook is not evidence for itself. Actual historical evidence requires eye witnesses not generation removed historians commenting on the religious cult that grew up around your fairy tale book

      • pud

        DO YOUR HOMEWORK before you speak…

        John E. Remsburg, in his classic book The Christ: A Critical Review and Analysis of the Evidence of His Existence (The Truth Seeker Company, NY, no date, pp. 24-25), lists the following writers who lived during the time, or within a century after the time, that Jesus is supposed to have lived:

        Josephus Juvenal Lucanus
        Philo-Judæus Martial Epictetus
        Seneca Persius Hermogones Silius Italicus
        Pliny Elder Plutarch Statius
        Arrian Pliny Younger Ptolemy
        Petronius Tacitus Appian
        Dion Pruseus Justus of Tiberius Phlegon
        Paterculus Apollonius Phædrus
        Suetonius Quintilian Valerius Maximus
        Pausanias Dio Chrysostom Lysias
        Florus Lucius Columella Pomponius Mela
        Lucian Valerius Flaccus Appion of Alexandria
        Quintius Curtius Damis Theon of Smyrna
        Aulus Gellius Favorinus
        According to Remsburg, “Enough of the writings of the authors named in the foregoing list remains to form a library. Yet in this mass of Jewish and Pagan literature, aside from two forged passages in the works of a Jewish author, and two disputed passages in the works of Roman writers, there is to be found no mention of Jesus Christ.” Nor, we may add, do any of these authors make note of the Disciples or Apostles – increasing the embarrassment from the silence of history concerning the foundation of Christianity.

        • Joshua Sonofnone

          Pud, I was trained by liberal and moderate “Bible scholars” who agreed with Remsburg. I earned my masters and my doctorate under such persons. The historical-critical method has been devalued in the last three decades in favor of literary criticism. I am not saying that the paradigm of historical criticism is totally inappropriate – it has its uses as a set of tools as well, but it does not suffice on its own, which is why the newer paradigm of literary criticism has come into being. What is more, Remsburg’s work is so old that it fails to take much of post-modern scholarship into consideration. Remsburg’s picture of these events is quite incomplete, having been put forth in the 19th century. At least you are proving you can read and respond intelligently enough without all of the foul language. I honestly appreciate the fact that you went to the trouble to find such an old source and quote it, but you should be looking at more current sources instead of simply finding old works still available on Amazon. Usually, you just rant and rave. Believe it or not, I do honestly care as to whether you ever have a relationship with Christ and whether you go to heaven or not. I want you to be in heaven.

          • pud

            You were indoctrinated by religious lunatics….fixed it for you.

            I have a PHD in Mother goose and Aesops Fables so you will bow to my title and credentials.

            There are no “sources” only bullshit make believe crap by religious apologists desperate to cling to their ridiculous cult ideology.

            I don’t care what you care…I don’t do cults and it is IMPOSSIBLE (unless you’re insane) to have a “relationship” with an invisible undetectable imaginary friend. Only 3 year olds and psychotics claim as much.

            Tell me skippy….Where is the “historical” evidence documenting the zombies who all arose from their graves or the historical documents from China when the sun stood still and the whole planet was plunged into darkness?

            Demonstrate that any such “god” ever existed

            Demonstrate the existence of any such “heaven”

            You can’t and won’t because you are a card carrying member of a death cult that worships human blood sacrifice and a Bronze Age book.

            You do not care for actual evidence, you do not care for what is actually and demonstrably true, you only care about sustaining your gullible “beliefs” and wish thinking.

            Nothing you “claim” can be shown to be a true representation of reality…thus you are delusional.

          • Joshua Sonofnone

            Your PhD in Mother Goose and Aesop’s Fables explains much about you, Pud. I am really glad you are admitting that you hold no legitimate credentials of any kind, since you truly don’t know what you are talking about. I should point out that the testimony of hundreds of witnesses who were contemporaries with Jesus would constitute legal proof in a court of law of those matters you originally challenged. Your introduction of newer material is clearly designed to steer the discussion away from original material, which you clearly cannot handle.

          • pud

            NAME ONE “WITNESS”…..waiting…

          • pud

            I was educated in 2 universities…I majored in real courses not make believe religious theology indoctrination. Your “degree” is laughable and gives you NO standing as an objective critical thinker. Worse! It makes you a jaded biased cultist who cannot objectively analyze anything given your oath to the cult and mandatory presuppositions as a delusional “believer” rather than a student of the truth.

            Let’s cut to the chase ….

            Reply to this or piss off….

            Demonstrate with actual evidence that ANY “god” past or present has/does exist.

            Do NOT respond with buybull verses, personal testimony or quotes from another delusional apologist

            Define evidence before you begin and understand that truth claims are ONLY settled via objective demonstrable facts not hearsay, not beliefs, not voices you hear in your head nor popularity….demonstrable FACTS

            AND…take careful note….extraordinary claims REQUIRE extraordinary proof!

          • Joshua Sonofnone

            I have two degrees from a state-supported university that was the best in the state in which I lived. Only one private institution had a better academic rating – all of the other private institutions charged more money but were not able to match the academic rating of the university from which I graduated, so not all of my degrees are from a theological seminary, but a master’s degree and a doctorate are and I would have you know that my doctorate is accepted as legitimate at Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard, etc., and by every legitimate accrediting body (CHEA and USDE-recognized) here in the U.S., and abroad.

          • pud

            So what? Rational intelligent people don’t yield to arguments from authority…a logical fallacy

          • Joshua Sonofnone

            So, are you thinking that your degrees are worthless? I would hope not, since I don’t believe your degrees or mine are worthless, provided they were earned at legitimate institutions. Besides, citing authorities to make the case of the legitimacy of one’s degrees is not exactly the same as citing authorities in most other types of debates. You cited Remsburg as an authority on the Bible, by the way.

          • pud

            Degrees have nothing to do with this argument and nothing to do with whether or not some claim is actually true.

            Name ONE EYE WITNESS that you “claim” there are many of that prove your proposition

            Demonstrate that ANY “god” past or present ever existed/exists.

            That is the crux of all these debates. I’m not interested in the fact you wasted your life studying mythology…Back up your claims with ACTUAL DEMONSTRABLE OBJECTIVE evidence

          • Joshua Sonofnone

            I can name one, but you won’t like it because he is in the Bible. Not being allowed to use the Bible in such a debate is equivalent to telling an Atheist that he cannot use any scientific text or use Darwin’s Origin of the Species. The one eye witness was Moses, who was allowed to see God’s back, but not see God’s face. There were numerous witnesses who saw Jesus Christ before and after the resurrection. Give me actual, demonstrable, objective evidence that God does not exist.

          • pud

            It’s not a question of me liking it. The buybull is NOT true because the buybull says it’s true. A character in the STORY saying the STORY is true IS NOT EVIDENCE. Stop being dishonest. Stop lying to yourself.

            There is NO evidence of any moses ever existing. NONE. ZERO. NADA.

            Name ONE “witness” who saw “jesus” either before or after…NAME HIM!

            Google burden of proof….You are the one making the positive claim….

            I’m convinced now that you’re just a run of the mill idiot who wasted his life.

            But, because I’m willing to entertain you lunatics I CAN prove that no “god” exists and have issued this challenge to everyone here for years…None of you cowards accept the challenge

            DEFINE “exist”

            DEFINE “god”

            Then I will PROVE that no “god” can “exist”

          • Theodore A. Jones

            “For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.” Rom. 2:13 Sonofnone what is that law Paul is referencing and what is the procedure of complying to its mandate?

          • Matthew 22:37

            He should have read Simon Greenleaf’s The Testimony of the Evangelists which is free online to read.

            Greenleaf helped found Harvard Law School and was an eyewitness evidence expert and he explains why the 4 evangelists were good eyewitnesses from a legal perspective plus he goes into certain ancient rules on old documents.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Remsburg is critiqued on Tektonics.org under John Remsberg: A Critique.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Google: John Remsburg, Atheist, Skeptic, Christ-Hater,
            John Remsburg also hated and tried to destroy George Washington

          • pud

            You were “trained” …like a dog. Good and accurate description

          • Joshua Sonofnone

            Actually, Pud, you missed the fact that I was trained by liberal and moderate (Neo-Orthodox) professors who wanted to destroy the Bible, but sought to make others think they believed the Bible’s message. I rejected their training because I learned they were not telling the truth. They portrayed themselves dishonestly. While you and I will never agree on matters of faith (unless you become a Christian), there is one thing I truly do appreciate about you and that is that you are transparent about where you stand. At least I know you will be honest about what you think, whether we agree or not.

          • pud

            The buybull destroys itself. It’s “message” is one of deranged blood magic, invisible undetectable agents, filthy rag humans begging a celestial dictator, wish thinking, make believe, pretend and gross atrocities, It is a fictional BOOK largely written by no name religious lunatics from the Bronze and Iron Age who knew absolutely nothing of the real world. It is a BOOK copied from other ancient superstitious texts and dogmas. It is empirically WRONG about everything it claims.

            I don’t do “faith”…”Faith” is the most dishonest position anyone can take. There is NOTHING too ridiculous or absurd that can’t be “believed” by “faith” “Faith” equals gullibility.

          • Joshua Sonofnone

            Like I said, you are completely honest about where you stand – completely wrong, but completely honest. The Bible was not copied (not in the main, at least) from other ancient superstitious texts and I would point out that those persons living in the Bronze and Iron ages were living in the real world of the time – that was the world! Your response at this point is simply the hyperbolic response of the typical seminar atheist and I had thought I would see better from you at this point, Pud. I knew you would oppose all I said (I expect that), but this is unworthy of you – you think you truly understand the Bible, but you do not. The Old Testament was largely written by a people who had been subjugated to slavery in Egypt and whose descendants went on to establish a kingdom at the crossroads of the Middle East in what is modern Israel. This same people, the Jews, not only interacted with the Egyptian empire, but were later subject to the empires of Babylon, Media-Persia, the Seleucids, and Rome, all powerful empires in their day, at times gaining their independence for a period of years. The Jews were highly involved in and highly aware of the political climate in each of these empires, with Joseph becoming a governor in Egypt, Daniel becoming Prime Minister of the Babylonian Empire, Nehemiah becoming the cupbearer of Xerxes and Xerxes making him responsible for rebuilding the wall of Jerusalem and effecting repairs to that city, and many Jews being born Roman citizens or becoming Roman citizens during the days of Rome’s dominance.
            Your definition of faith also differs from the Biblical definition of the word. In the New Testament, the Greek word translated as faith is “pistis,” which means “trust.” You trust in something or someone, Pud, even if that something or someone is yourself.

          • pud

            No, I am not wrong. Monotheism came from Zoro Asterian. Dying and rising “gods” came from the Romans and Greeks. Your ridiculous story is borrowed entirely from previous delusional ideologies and belief systems.

            I oppose everything you (and other religious lunatics) say because you all are entirely dishonest. You do not care about the truth, do not care for reason, do not care for evidence and you peddle your superstitious nonsense to children. I have nothing but contempt for you and your kind.

            I couldn’t care less about the buybull definition of anything. “Faith” is just as dishonest as “trust” without evidence or reason. It is every bit as gullible and credulous. You and your cult have NO valid reasons to “trust” your BOOK anymore than you have reason to have “faith” in invisible undetectable deities.

            I don’t need a history lesson from you. It is YOU who is compelled to defend your mindless absurd claims which you utterly and completely fail at

          • pud

            There was NO slavery in Egypt nor was there any Exodus. Total made up make believe bullshit

          • Joshua Sonofnone

            Considering the fact that the people of Israel believe such slavery existed, I have to ask you now if you are Anti-Semitic. Monotheism pre-dates Zoroastrianism. I have a degree in history, by the way, and I took every undergraduate history course offered by the university from which I graduated because I did a second undergraduate degree in another subject area and continued to take history courses as electives. Of course, I have also taken a number of graduate level history courses over the years. Even my secular history professors acknowledged the Jewish slavery in Egypt and the Exodus (they did not agree with everything the Bible said about the exodus, but they acknowledged the historical fact that it happened) and these were professors with PhD’s in history from secular universities. Again, Pud, cut the hyperbole – I suspect you are hyperventilating, which is not good for your health.

          • pud

            Again..I do not care what anyone “believes” I hold all religious cults in equal contempt.

            You wasted your entire education simply because you failed the most important element in education…to teach you how to think…critically think. Clearly you are incapable of that.


          • pud

            Demonstrate with actual evidence that hundreds of thousands of idiots wandered around a desert for 40 years when following the coast you can walk to Cannan in 1 week. Demonstrate the existence of “manna” Show evidence of a vast population inhabiting the Sinai. Demonstrate how more slaves than Egyptians occupied Egypt.

          • pud
        • Matthew 22:37

          Do your’s.

          Tektonics.org refutes John E. Remburg.

          Google: John Remsberg: A Critique on Tektonics.org

          • pud

            Couldn’t care less.

            The fundamental FACTS are ….You (like every single religious lunatic) make untold number of claims and assertions that you cannot demonstrate. FACT

            You tap dance with logical fallacies, slippery nuance, and appeals to fellow delusional superstitious cult members.

            Claiming to have an education you should request a refund.

            You do not know burden of proof

            You ask for me to prove a negative

            You cannot answer direct questions

            You cannot stay on topic

            You run away from my challenge like every single cult member has done

            You do not care for what is true only what supports your “belief”

            You do not know what actual evidence is

            Etc Etc Etc

            I thought you might be somewhat of a worthy opponent….nope.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Quote from ministers best-friend dot com:

            If you’ve read my item on C. Dennis McKinsey, author of the Encyclopedia of Biblical Errancy, you may recall me quoting McKinsey with such claims as, “most scholars admit that the works of Tacitus have not been preserved with any degree of fidelity.” I asked who these “scholars” were, for McKinsey provided no cite, and the Taciteans have said no such thing.

            I now know that the above is from none other than the work of John Remsberg (variously spelled Remsburg), author early last century of a number of freethinker books, among them the one under study here, The Christ. – end quote

          • Matthew 22:37

            I know enough to check your sources and your source Remberg is unreliable.

          • pud

            Doesn’t matter in the least. Only you cares what others think as you are incapable of independent critical thinking and must be part of a collective cult or defer your mind to some authority figure.

            The FACT as pointed out by him is that there is NO evidence for ANYTHING you and the other crazy people claim as historical fact. NONE.

            EVERYTHING you have constructed your life around is based ONLY on pretend.

          • Matthew 22:37

            You have yet to prove that you aren’t insane and a member of a cult yourself.

            You sought out someone without biblical expertise and touted him as an expert to the public without even vetting his background because he confirmed your mistaken bias.

            The weight of expert biblical scholarship is against Remsburg’s conclusion.

            It is ignorant for you to weigh in with such an inexpert opinion as authoritative.

            It would have been smarter to have just said you just don’t believe and leave it at that then to come up on this blog making false claims based on false research results.

          • pud

            Don’t care who he is or was…I care about what is true. Totally unlike yourself

          • pud

            Name ONE eyewitness or cite one actual (non buybull) piece of actual historical evidence….You won’t reply…you can’t…you’ll babble about some other mindless bullshit..

          • Matthew 22:37

            Tacitus, Josephus and the Talmud.

            All 3 are extra biblical sources.

            You violated Occam’s razor that the simplest explanation is usually the truth.

            Twisting history to say Christ never lived.

            You have no written refutations in the time of Christ or soon after him by people saying he never lived and religions don’t start without founders yet you deliberately go back and try to erase him and call perfectly good historical sources for his existence into question to suit your self.

          • pud

            NO. None of them were contemporary and none were eye witness to anything. They wrote only briefly about the christian cult. Stop with your bullshit and lies.

          • pud

            The “simplest” explanation is NOT a dead guy rising, burning bushes, global floods, talking donkeys or demons. You really are stupid. Not wasting anymore of my time on you

          • Matthew 22:37

            Good don’t.

            Be deceitful now and don’t cite any more of these inexpert people that you failed to fact check.

            Just go on setting yourself up as a false authority.

            That’s fraud and you are meddling with other people’s deepest interests but I am sure you have rationalized your insanity in trying to control the minds of other people.

            Nevermind that you might have a mental problem of your own.
            A lot of cult leaders like Rand, Stalin, Jim Jones and Hitler did.

            It might be why atheists have higher suicide numbers, fewer marriage and fewer children.

            But, of course, it can be hard to admit when one is less than perfect. I guess you feel it is much better to ignore your own imperfections by running people over verbally on the Internet as if they are your intellectual inferiors. Ignoring the fact that you consult people without expert biblical qualifications as if they were experts like you did with Remberg.

          • Matthew 22:37

            You ought to google and read:
            Historic Doubts Relative to Napoleon Bonaparte by Richard Whately

            Hume was strident in calling for stringent criteria in evaluating miracle claims.

            Whately shows that if Hume’s reasoning was consistently applied, one could not be reasonably certain that Napoleon existed.

            Whately’s point is:
            If enlightened’ skeptics won’t apply their principles thoroughly and consistently, but choose only to apply them to certain claims (and how did they choose which ones?), are those principles worth their salt?

          • Matthew 22:37

            I suggest you learn to actually think and research, pud, instead of parroting New Atheism’s ideas on the internet by rote.

            There’s no clear philosophical burden on the theist to prove anything. There are multiple reasons for that. From a theological perspective we’re told not to argue and faith is the gift of God and that unbelievers are suppressing a knowledge of the truth so how does an argument gift someone determined to suppress the truth. I’m not the Holy Spirit to give another person the gift of faith through an argument.

            Then various philosophers say this:

            Arguments and positions

            The last 50 years has seen an increase in academic philosophical arguments critical of the positions of atheism arguing that they are philosophically unsound.[11] Some of the more common of these arguments are the presumption of atheism,[12] the logical argument from evil,[13] the evidential argument from evil,[14][15][16] the argument from nonbelief[17] and absence of evidence arguments.

            The Presumption of Atheism

            Philosopher Antony Garrard Newton Flew Authored The Presumption of Atheism in 1976

            In 1976, atheist philosopher Antony Flew wrote The Presumption of Atheism in which he argued that the question of God’s existence should begin by assuming atheism as the default position. According to Flew, the norm for academic philosophy and public dialogue was at that time for atheists and theists to both share their respective “burdens of proof” for their positions.[18][19] Flew proposed instead that his academic peers redefine “atheism” to bring about these changes:

            What I want to examine is the contention that the debate about the existence of God should properly begin from the presumption of atheism, that the onus of proof must lie upon the theist. The word ‘atheism’, however, has in this contention to be construed unusually. Whereas nowadays the usual meaning of ‘atheist’ in English is ‘someone who asserts that there is no such being as God, I want the word to be understood not positively but negatively… in this interpretation an atheist becomes: not someone who positively asserts the non-existence of God; but someone who is simply not a theist. The introduction of this new interpretation of the word ‘atheism’ may appear to be a piece of perverse Humpty-Dumptyism, going arbitrarily against established common usage. ‘Whyever’, it could be asked, don’t you make it not the presumption of atheism but the presumption of agnosticism?[18]

            — Excerpts from The Presumption of Atheism, Anthony Flew, 1976
            Flew’s proposition saw little acceptance in the 20th century though in the early 21st century Flew’s broader definition of atheism came to be forwarded more commonly.[20][21] In 2007, analytic philosopher William Lane Craig’s described the presumption of atheism as “one of the most commonly proffered justifications of atheism”.[22] In 2010, BBC journalist William Crawley explained that Flew’s presumption of atheism “made the case, now followed by today’s new atheism” arguing that atheism should be the default position.[19][23] In today’s debates, atheists forward the presumption of atheism arguing that atheism is the default position[24][25] with no burden of proof[26][27] and assert that the burden of proof for God’s existence rests solely on the theist.[18][28][29]

            The presumption of atheism has been the subject of criticism by atheists,[30][31] agnostics[32] and theists[33][34] since Flew advanced his position more than 40 years ago.

            Criticism of the presumption of atheism

            The agnostic Analytic Philosopher Anthony Kenny rejected the presumption of atheism on any definition of atheism arguing that “the true default position is neither theism nor atheism, but agnosticism” adding “a claim to knowledge needs to be substantiated, ignorance need only be confessed”.[31]

            Many different definitions may be offered of the word ‘God’. Given this fact, atheism makes a much stronger claim than theism does. The atheist says that no matter what definition you choose, ‘God exists’ is always false. The theist only claims that there is some definition which will make ‘God exists’ true. In my view, neither the stronger nor the weaker claim has been convincingly established”.[35]

            — Excerpt from What I Believe, Anthony Kenny, 2007
            Modal Logician Philosopher Alvin Plantinga is widely regarded as the world’s most important living Christian philosopher
            Modal logician philosopher Alvin Plantinga is viewed as an important contributor to Christian philosophy[36]
            Atheist philosopher Kai Nielsen criticized the presumption of atheism arguing that without an independent concept of rationality or a concept of rationality that atheists and theists can mutually accept, there is no common foundation on which to adjudicate rationality of positions concerning the existence of God. Because the atheist’s conceptualization of “rational” differs from the theist, Nielsen argues, both positions can be rationally justified.[30][31][37]

            Analytic philosopher and modal logician Alvin Plantinga, a theist, rejected the presumption of atheism forwarding a two-part argument. First, he shows that there is no objection to belief in God unless the belief is shown to be false. Second, he argues that belief in God could be rationally warranted if it is a properly basic or foundational belief through an innate human “sense of the divine”.[22] Plantinga argues that if we have the innate knowledge of God which he theorizes as a possibility, we could trust belief in God the same way we trust our cognitive faculties in other similar matters, such as our rational belief that there are other minds beyond our own, something we believe, but for which there can be no evidence. Alvin Plantinga’s argument puts theistic belief an equal evidential footing with atheism even if Flew’s definition of atheism is accepted.[31]

            University of Notre Dame philosopher Ralph McInerny goes further than Plantinga, arguing that belief in God reasonably follows from our observations of the natural order and the law-like character of natural events. McInerny argues that the extent of this natural order is so pervasive as to be almost innate, providing a prima facie argument against atheism. McInerny’s position goes further than Plantinga’s, arguing that theism is evidenced and that the burden of proof rests on the atheist, not on the theist.[31][38]

            Analytic Philosopher William Lane Craig
            Theoretical philosopher William Lane Craig is a well-known critic of atheist philosophies
            William Lane Craig wrote that if Flew’s broader definition of atheism is seen as “merely the absence of belief in God”, atheism “ceases to be a view” and “even infants count as atheists”. For atheism to be a view, Craig adds: “One would still require justification in order to know either that God exists or that He does not exist”.[22] Like the agnostic Anthony Kenny, Craig argues that there is no presumption for atheism because it is distinct from agnosticism:

            [S]uch an alleged presumption is clearly mistaken. For the assertion that “There is no God” is just as much a claim to knowledge as is the assertion that “There is a God.” Therefore, the former assertion requires justification just as the latter does. It is the agnostic who makes no knowledge claim at all with respect to God’s existence.”[39]

            — Excerpt by Definition of Atheism, William Lane Craig, 2007
            Forty years after Flew published The Presumption of Atheism, his proposition remains controversial.

            Other arguments

            William Lane Craig listed some of the more prominent arguments forwarded by proponents of atheism along with his objections:[40]

            “The Hiddenness of God” is the claim that if God existed, God would have prevented the world’s unbelief by making his existence starkly apparent. Craig argues that the problem with this argument is that there is no reason to believe that any more evidence than what is already available would increase the number of people believing in God.
            “The Incoherence of Theism” is the claim that the notion of God is incoherent. Craig argues that a coherent doctrine of God’s attributes can be formulated based on scripture like Medieval theologians had done and “Perfect Being Theology”; and that the argument actually helps in refining the concept of God.
            “The Problem of Evil” can be split into two different concerns: the “intellectual” problem of evil concerns how to give a rational explanation of the co-existence of God and evil and the “emotional” problem of evil concerns how to comfort those who are suffering and how to dissolve the emotional dislike people have of a God who would permit such evil. The latter can be dealt with in a diverse manner. Concerning the “intellectual” argument, it is often cast as an incompatibility between statements such as “an omnipotent, omnibenevolent God exists” and “the quantity and kinds of suffering in the world exist”. Craig argues that no one has shown that both statements are logically incompatible or improbable with respect to each other. Others use another version of the intellectual argument called the “evidential problem of evil” which claims that the apparently unnecessary or “gratuitous” suffering in the world constitutes evidence against God’s existence. Craig argues that it is not clear that the suffering that appears to be gratuitous actually is gratuitous for various reasons, one of which is similar to an objection to utilitarian ethical theory, that it is quite simply impossible for us to estimate which action will ultimately lead to the greatest amount of happiness or pleasure in the world.
            T.J. Mawson makes a case against atheism by citing some lines of evidence and reasoning such as the high level of fine-tuning whereby the life of morally sentient and significantly free creatures like humans has implications. On the maximal multiverse hypothesis, he argues that in appealing to infinite universes one is in essence explaining too much and that it even opens up the possibility that certain features of the universe still would require explanation beyond the hypothesis itself. He also argues from induction for fine tuning in that if one supposed that infinite universes existed there should be infinite ways in which observations can be wrong on only one way in which observations can be right at any point in time, for instance, that the color of gems stay the same every time we see them. In other words, if infinite universes existed, then there should be infinite changes to our observations of the universe and in essence be unpredictable in infinite ways, yet this is not what occurs.[41] – end quote

            The above is why atheists’ internet arguments are specious. There is no theological burden of proof and the philosophical burden is highly debatable.

            Quote above from “criticism of atheism” on wikipedia dot org

          • pud

            Baldness is NOT a hair color. Not collecting stamps is NOT a hobby. Non belief is not a postion.

            William Lane Craig…LOLOLOLOL!!!


          • Matthew 22:37

            The true default position is agnosticism.

            But you’re another New Atheist, pud. They don’t think too clearly. They are just so anxious to dive in and lose self control and force people to argue so they can satisfy their mental disorder which feels the need to ridicule and mock people.

            Not all atheists are militant New Atheists. Just the ones that have abandoned social intelligence or never had it.

            My beliefs are not a claim that I have to philosophically prove because YOUR false reasoning doesn’t control philosophy or me or any other Christian.

            Glad you stuck around long enough to learn the error of your parroting of the New Atheists.

            If you are going to ad hominem attack Craig while you ignore all the other people in the world who explain why your burden of proof idea is wrong then your mind is frozen and not even flexible enough to acknowledge the truth.

            You are left holding the bag insisting on a lie because you are too egoically vested in your lying rebellion now to acknowledge the truth that atheism is not the default position.

            Now switch positions and claim to be an agnostic or stop claiming theists have a burden of proof.

            Who elected Anthony Flew king of philosophy?

            Nobody that’s who. Philosophers argue EVERYTHING. Everything is debatable in philosophy but God didn’t leave His foundational knowledge up for debate.

            Christ said you are either with him or against him.

            You opted to be against him.

            So don’t come back and try to control me or make demands of me. You can’t even prove you are right and think for yourself but you think you are going to push me around and tell me what to think?

            Go ahead. Fall for Flew’s false logic and philosophy’s quackery.

            I will continue to think for myself including ignoring you when I want to and there is nothing you can do about it even if you act like a social savage who has lost his mind.

            Really all you have to resort to is ridicule because you don’t think too clearly and your heart is hardened like Pharoah’s now.

            Your only option now is to ask God for His mercy but you are too blind to see or reason so you attempt to control Christians thoughtlives instead.

            Would a sane theist bow to an irrational zealot who refuses to think for himself but just parrots insults and New Atheist dogma constantly?

            Of course not. We’re not cowards or mental weaklings who refuse to think for ourselves like you are parroting that MAN former atheist Anthony Flew.

            I hope you learn to think for yourself. Your mind appears to be frozen in stereotypical thinking. What made you give up thinking for yourself and start parroting other people?

          • pud

            There is no such thing as an agnostic. If you do not know you ALSO by default do not “believe”…..FAIL!

            Not an ad hominem ….Craig is an demonstrable slimy liar and con man.FAIL!

            Anyone who makes ANY positive claim has the burden of proof. FAIL!

            Demonstrate empirically that any such “christ” existed…FAIL!

            Name the personal stenographer who jotted down every word exactly even when storybook “jesus” was all alone…FAIL!

            You do not and obviously cannot think for yourself. FAIL!

            Face it…You are the worlds most gullible loser.

          • Matthew 22:37

            You obviously do not know the first thing about philosophy.

            Everything is debatable in philosophy. Even burdens of proof so why don’t you get off this board and stop making an ass out of yourself.

            Nobody has to comply with your reasoning especially not if your logic is wrong.

            You are a domineering control freak insisting that people concede to you but I can see the truth in what Kenny said:

            The agnostic Analytic Philosopher Anthony Kenny rejected the presumption of atheism on any definition of atheism arguing that “the true default position is neither theism nor atheism, but agnosticism” adding “a claim to knowledge needs to be substantiated, ignorance need only be confessed”.[31]

            Many different definitions may be offered of the word ‘God’. Given this fact, atheism makes a much stronger claim than theism does. The atheist says that no matter what definition you choose, ‘God exists’ is always false. The theist only claims that there is some definition which will make ‘God exists’ true. In my view, neither the stronger nor the weaker claim has been convincingly established”.[35]

            — Excerpt from What I Believe, Anthony Kenny, 2007

            You selectively ignored Kenny to ad hominem attack Craig but there are lots of people who agree with Kenny and Craig.

            Just not you, Mr. Thought Controller, trying to force your thinking onto others.

            You are not God and you’re not always right and only a cult leader or an intellectual coward tries to force someone into conceding their own reason so they will be allowed to control their thinking.

            God gives me freedom to think. I can change my mind (mental position) any time I want to but I see the truth in God’s Word so I voluntarily stick to Him.

            Not so you, my friend. Your atheism seems to have driven you out of your mind.

            I hope you see the light some day if you can ever get freedom of thinking back into your willfully blocked mind.

            Have a blessed day!

          • pud

            “But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father’s house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.” (Deuteronomy 22: 20-21)

          • Matthew 22:37

            Oh you have a problem with God stopping the spread of evil among people?

            Sexually transmitted diseases proliferate from promiscuity.

            You have a problem with God not wanting evil behavior to be spread and with Him stopping the spread of STDs.

            A girl should be able to pass off her illegitimate offspring as someone else’s?

            If God condones evil then evil spreads. They were a communal society. The rugged individualism of today’s West where the well being of the individual preempts the well being of the group was not the society the Hebrews lived in.

            They didn’t even have contraceptives back then.

            But your evilly motivated mind and heart know better than God, right?

            Your evil interpretation should be communicated to everyone so you can serve Satan and destroy their relationship with the Blessed and Holy One.

            That’s what disobedience does. It destroys a spiritual relationship with God the Father and fosters disobedience by introducing evil ideas into the unguarded heart and mind.

            Well I don’t believe you servant of Satan.

            Sorry you can’t comprehend the Bible but that’s your spiritual blindness upsetting your common sense so you can no longer interpret correctly.

            Fearing (revering) the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and to depart from evil is understanding.

            But you don’t revere God and never resist the devil so he will flee from you.

            Instead you slander God like you are out of your rational mind.

            Haven’t you ever read Job or about Jesus’ resurrection. God has the power of life and death over people. Jesus was the firstborn of those to be resurrected.

            Sane people have the common sense to respect that kind of power.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Face it. You are an unrepentant social savage now and nobody with any real brains hangs around a social savage. I just thought maybe I could help you reverse the propaganda that you allow to blind you so you could regain your life and thinking capability.

            But you are so hardened now that I am no longer hanging around and will be putting you back on block.

            You can always appeal to God to reverse the curse you are under. All you have to do is muster the courage and humility to appeal to Him.

            Have a blessed day! Returning you to block later today. I might as well as you are already willfully maintaining a mentally blocked state but it forces you to attempt to control the free thinking of others different from yourself.

            Who tries to control another person’s thinking? Even God doesn’t do that. He guides us and teaches us. He doesn’t control us. How could you grow mentally or spiritually if there was no room for growth and change via free thinking.

            Sorry, you submitted to the devil in your mental spiritual blindness. He’s the real thought controller who does not permit free thinking.

          • Matthew 22:37

            If you get tired of that control freak the devil trying to own you in thought and deed you can always go home to God.

            Remember this. God loves everyone all the time. That is what the devil doesn’t want you to realize. If you realize that then he the old slave master sin, the devil, cannot own you any more.

            Have a great and blessedly wonderful day!

          • Matthew 22:37

            Actually you are one of the world’s biggest losers because you let the devil own you.

            Jesus ransomed you and you couldn’t even claim him.

            Now you are on this blog promoting atheism using poor logic and substandard scholarship and anti-Christian propaganda. You can read John Remsberg’s background. He did not even have the background to do scholarly historical studies on Jesus.

            You threw all the real biblical scholars out in favor of people who would favor your flesh.

            Now you come over onto a Christian blog throwing tantrums and trying to force
            non-expert authorities on us. Not realizing we can check up on this.

            Why would I rely on arguments from you that could turn me into a social retard when I can research a lot for myself and make up my own mind.

            Please get Jesus so you can learn some self control.

            Tantrums neither scare or impress me.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Craig is a true gentleman with a true gentleman’s benign manner. I know because my personality type makes me sensitive to such things.

            Nobody’s logic is 100 percent error free including Craig’s but when I look at him I see a gentleman from his head to his toes. That’s what true disciples look like great gentlemen.

            But I understand that Satan has blinded you so you cannot perceive that.

            Instead you hyper fixate on any error whether petty or great and project constant criticism on him instead of acknowledging the greatness of God that other people see in him.

            God only makes great things. The devil tries to destroy them.

          • pud

            William Lane Craig…LOLOLOL!! Good choice! A professional liar and charlatan …You truly are the most easily led, most gullible, most credulous simple minded buffoon I’ve ever encountered.


          • Matthew 22:37

            You know you have a heck of a nerve without any formal training in biblical scholarship attempting to set yourself up as an authority on the God of the Bible and challenging people with fraudulent historical research.

            Christians believe on the historical record working forward.

            You took some ignorant conman’s attempt to deconstruct the history of the Bible (working backwards trying to destroy the historical basis of the Bible) and didn’t even fact check him for reliability even though there are hundreds of thousands of biblical scholars down through the centuries that have checked the record and dispute his lying claims.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Prove you aren’t a cult leader Mr. Thought Controller. Isn’t that what a deprogrammer does? Attempts to control other people’s thinking like a cult leader like the atheist Rev. Jim Jones did.

            Isn’t that self contradictory of you, pud? To condemn cults while acting like a cult leader yourself.

            It looks like Remberg cherrypicked the real historian Schaff trying to “look legit”.


            Most of Remsburg’s authorities are not listed by Schaff’s History of the Christian Church (Warburton, Baring-Gould, Dr Giles, Chalmers, Campbell) because they either are not scholars or because they’re too outdated – Schaff’s scholarship (which Remsburg acknowledges elsewhere) goes back to about 1840. On the other hand, Schaff has lists of scholars which go for the full authenticity of the passage (Hauteville, Oberthür, Bretschneider, Böhmert, Whiston, Schoedel, Böttger), some for partial (Paulus, Heinichen, Gieseler, Weizsäcker, Renan, Farrar – Farrar’s quote being after a discussion on Herod and is non-analytical) and two for “we think there was a negative mention of Christ here but the interpolator changed it” viewpoint (Paret, Ewald), all of which totally contradicts Remsburg’s claim that Christian scholarship rejects Josephus as a historical witness.

            What’s so laughable about this is, Remsburg has all this information in front of him, because he quotes from the same chapter (Schaff, Vol.1 chapter 2) in The Christ, chapter 7! Clearly then, this work under study is presenting “arguments I like” rather than contemporary, analytical scholarship. So much for Remsburg the journalist!

            quote from the ministers-best-friend site

          • Matthew 22:37

            You’re the one supposedly concerned about evidence touting Remberg a man who either never fact checked history or made up a pack of lies.

            Why did he do that? Did he want to make money selling his books?

            This is God we’re talking about and you cited fraudulent research from an inexpert source as accurate.

        • Matthew 22:37

          Do your’s.

          John E. Remsberg: A High school dropout who never made it to college much less graduate or go one to a Higher Degree.

          Google: John Remsburg, Atheist, Skeptic, Christ-Hater,
          John Remsburg also hated and tried to destroy George Washington

          • pud

            Couldn’t care less…There were NO eye witnesses to ANYTHING you claimed. You either lied or you’re so indoctrinated you don’t care. There is NO evidence for ANYTHING in your entire BOOK save a few places and names of ACTUAL historical figures. EVERY supernatural claim from the burning bush to rivers of blood is unequivical BULLSHIT make believe story book fantasy and nonsense that simple minded, non critically thinking poorly educated people line up to consume.

            You KNOW nothing….You CLAIM many things….there is a distiction

          • pud

            Oh, sorry, didn’t realize that I was responding to the head idiot and lunatic…

          • Matthew 22:37

            You’re ridiculous. There are legitimate Bible scholars in this world to consult on the historicity of Jesus Christ. The weight of bible scholarship is in favor of the existence of Jesus Christ and you go pick some fringe lunatic to read from the 1800s that only a few bible experts today have heard of and know is a fake and tout him as an expert because he confirms your mistaken bias.

          • pud

            Name ONE eyewitness….

  • Theodore A. Jones

    “For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.” Rom. 2:13

  • Joshua Sonofnone

    Bro. Wellman. I have read your article, and I find it to be Biblical and nicely done, despite what your Atheist attackers are saying. I have been dialoguing with Pud as you will note. Don’t let him deter you from sharing the truths of the Gospel. I certainly will not allow him to silence the witness of the Gospel either. Blessings upon you for your continued proclamation of the Gospel.

    • Jack Wellman

      Thank you for the encouragement. I do not listen to or read the personal attacks on me or on God and the Bible, but take them as blessings (Matt 5:10-12) and I do not respond to such hatred but pray for them to repent and believe, but I will not keep silent. I cannot help but share Christ, the Bible, and God and His Word. They can still contact me when they are genuine in their wanting to know more about Christ, but I would say, not all atheists are like these examples you see, so we can’t judge other atheists by these few who only have an ax to grind. They are hurting and need prayer.

      • pud

        Demonstrate that any such figure as “christ” ever existed…waiting

        • Joshua Sonofnone

          Other archaeological evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ also exists, Pud. See John D. Morris, Ph.D. 2002. Has Archaeological Evidence for Jesus Been Discovered?. Acts & Facts. 31 (12).
          I am finally back to this debate, Pud. I had classes to teach and a sermon to finalize. The historian you employed to defend yourself against my question about your potential for Anti-Semitism had the proper credentials, but he has opted to become a revisionist historian, not really having the proof to undergird what he is saying. Revisionist historians are all liars, by the way. They simply use those PhD degrees in history that you say don’t mean anything as a way of asserting the authority to deny whatever they dislike. Ancient near eastern and middle eastern peoples would almost never admit defeats or weaknesses in their histories about themselves, so when the literature of a people admits to their having been enslaved for centuries, it can be believed as reliable. The Jews were enslaved in Egypt and did gain their freedom and did invade and conquer another land. I know there is much in the details that moderns and post-moderns find to be uncomfortable at best. I get it, but here is what else you should consider. Israel desired to cross the land of the Ammonite king to get to Canaan and promised to cross under very strict guidelines – the Ammonite king refused, which was what led to the war with Ammon that the Israelites won decisively. The Canaanites were an incredibly wicked people who sacrificed their own babies by placing them alive in the heated hands of metal idols to allow them to be cooked to death in order to solicit a good harvest. We sacrifice children today to the god of convenience and because we use more advanced technology to do so, we consider ourselves to be superior, but human nature has not changed. The incredible wickedness of the Canaanites led to their being judged and driven out of the land or facing total destruction. The Canaanites had four hundred years to repent of their evils while Israel was enslaved and another forty years to repent after God delayed the entrance of Israel into Canaan (I already know what you are going to say about this, but you are wrong, as you are most of the time). How many years should God give a wicked nation to repent before He brings judgment upon it?

          • pud

            There is NO historical evidence for THE most important figure of all time. None. I don’t give a shit what any religious apologist lunatic contrives to suit your delusional narrative.

            Use paragraphs.

            There was NO jewish slavery in Egypt, no exodus, no moses…nothing but a made up make believe story for the simple minded, credulous, gullible and fearful.

            It is also a STUPID RIDICULOUS story for your imaginary deity to have contrived.

          • Joshua Sonofnone

            Keep up the denials, Pud – they are all you will have for eternity. Do you also deny the holocaust? That would be interesting. Surely you know the company you are keeping with Atheists – Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc. More people have been killed by Atheist dictators than have ever been killed by all of those who started wars in the name of any and all religions. It is Atheists who are the greatest danger and the most violent persons among us humans. Your own invective makes me believe you may exhibit tendencies towards violence. I know you want to end religions of all kinds and you and your fellow Atheists are claiming religions are all evil – is this some kind of set up to justify shootings and bombings of churches, mosques, and synagogues at some future point in time by you Atheists? With the kinds of vehement diatribes I see being launched by Atheists on these websites, I have to wonder where this is all going. I am not for violence and I believe in free speech, so, yes, you are free to say what you want, Pud, but your speech against religious people seems particularly virulent and I am concerned about that. I also want to urge anyone claiming to be a Christian not to commit acts of violence against Atheists or against people of other religions.

          • pud

            You ramble blather and make claims in run on sentences…gish gallop like most losing apologists do.

            Let me simplify it for you….

            “In the beginning “god” created the heavens and the earth”

            DEMONSTRATE that this claim is actually, factually true.

            If you cannot then you have absolutely nothing more to say as this is the foundation of your cult belief

          • Joshua Sonofnone

            Demonstrate that the claim is false, Pud – you can’t and we all know it!

          • pud

            Demonstrate that there ISN’T a china tea pot circling Neptune….What a stupid post.

            Actually I can disprove your claims and have offered the challenge here many times…none of you cowardly delusional cultists have ever taken me up on it.

            Define “god”

            Define “exist”

            Then I will prove you completely and totally wrong…

          • Joshua Sonofnone

            No human being has the ability to completely or even adequately define “God,” Pud. How would you have the finite define the infinite? You can’t define God completely or adequately either. Jesus’s resurrection and post resurrection appearances (which I know you will reject because they did not happen in a day and time when modern technology can document them – the arrogance of moderns and post-moderns) are proof of the existence of God.

          • pud

            There is NO evidence for any “god” ever

            There is NO evidence for any “jesus” ever

            There is NO evidence for any “resurrection” ever

            So that leaves you “believing” in a cult doctrine with no evidence and only the narrative in an ancient book written by no name authors….By your own stupid admission you “believe” in something you can’t even define. Absurd in the extreme.

          • Joshua Sonofnone

            Your choice to ignore all of the evidence is your responsibility, Pud. No Christian who stands before God on the Judgment Day will have your blood on his or her hands for not telling you that God actually loves you and is willing to welcome you into His family through faith in Jesus Christ. You have heard the gospel many times and have rejected it. For your own sake, read the gospels! I honestly don’t want you to end up spending eternity in Hell. God allows each of us to make the decision as to whether to place our trust in Christ or not.

          • pud

            I “ignore” nothing…There is NO evidence. Google “evidence” and it’s quite apparent that you have no clue what actually constitutes actual evidence.

            “judgement day”…LOL what an incredibly stupid concept. What a petty loser “god” you serve who has nothing better to do for eternity than play with his little insignificant “creations” You don’t even realize how petty and small you yourself make this deity to be.

            The “gospel” is a STORYBOOK…nothing in it is true. Only the most gullible and credulous swallow Bronze Age stories as true representations of reality. You bore me now…you’re just as infantile, mindless, simple minded and stupid as the rest …cheers!

          • Joshua Sonofnone

            I am not sure you really want the answers to the two main questions you say you want answered, Pud. You want someone to prove there is a “God” and you want someone to prove God exists. Well, if someone does succeed in proving the form, the latter question will also be answered, so it all comes down to one question: Is there a God? If you really want answers, I am going to suggest that you start reading the blog of Dr. James McGrath. He seeks to answer persons such as Richard Dawkins (DPhil., from Oxford – you probably knew this, as any Atheist worth anything knows who Richard Dawkins is). McGrath is an Oxford graduate, who holds a PhD from Durham. Reading the answers of McGrath to Dawkins is like watching two heavyweights – I actually think you might enjoy it. I am not saying you will agree because I don’t always agree with McGrath either, but I think you will appreciate his cognitive abilities.

          • pud

            Let me explain some things to you that you’re obviously oblivious to…

            1. “Proofs” only exist in mathematics, logic and by definition. You and ALL religious cults make extraordinary claims that REQUIRE extraordinary evidence to even get to the level of “probable” Yet, you can provide NOTHING. Not one religion has EVER provided ANY evidence to support their claims and assertions which is why they are all “faith” based. “Faith” is THE most dishonest position anyone can take because ANYTHING can be “believed” on “faith” no matter how stupid or absurd.

            2. I have ZERO interest in reading any rubbish by any goofy delusional apologist, I’ve heard all the arguments over and over and over and they are all the same and all just as lame.

            3. Degrees carry no weight with me. The universities are full of idiots. I can do my own reasoning

            4. IF YOU CAN’T SHOW IT, YOU DON’T KNOW IT….Fact and you can’t.

          • Joshua Sonofnone

            I actually appreciate the answer, Pud, because you have just told me you are not serious about really finding any answers – all you want to do is pick fights. Sadly, you will never understand until you stand before God at the judgment.

          • pud

            No, it is you who has the problem with “answers” You, like the rest of your cult, would much rather have a bad answer or a convenient lie to the actual truth.

            Demonstrate that any “god” has ever existed…

            Demonstrate the truth of your claim of “judgement”

            You won’t because you can’t. You want to “believe” what you want to “believe” out of fear…fear of death and fear of this invisible undetectable agent who you must be a slave to so as to avoid torment and torture. You’re willing to insert an invisible dictator to give you bad answers to human questions that have no answers rather than being honest and admitting when you don’t know something. It is you and yours who are the truly dis-honest ones not I.

          • Wolf of Odin

            You have no proof of any of this nonsense being true.

          • pud

            Google the definition of “proof” I thought you might present a challenge…nope…you’re just as stupid and ridiculous and vacuous as the dumbest poster here.

          • Joshua Sonofnone

            Pud, if all of the witnesses to the life and resurrection of Jesus were alive today and could be deposed in a court of law, we would have legal proof for everything the Bible says about Jesus – it is only because these events happened two thousand years ago that you refuse to believe them. I pray God brings you around before it is too late for you.

          • pud

            No it wouldn’t, there are no witnesses, they ain’t coming back and you’re an idiot with mindless stupid worthless non arguments. Just the same baseless ignorant “claims” and “assertions” good bye

          • pud

            Christian gunman slaughtered 50 muslims in New Zealand…maybe you missed that?

          • Joshua Sonofnone

            I didn’t miss it, Pud, and he was wrong. On this we will agree. Anyone engaging in such acts is wrong. As to blather, etc., I see you doing this kind of run-on rant often, probably as a tactic for introducing more topics than anyone opposing your views can address at such a website.

          • pud

            Well look below…ONE topic central to your delusion….take that on.

          • pud

            There are living witnesses to the holocaust…photographs…eye witnesses….We know that people murder each other, we know about wars and genocide…the holocaust is entirely believable because we KNOW shit about it…..You and your cult “KNOW” nothing…you are ENTIRELY “faith” based, have no eyewitnesses, no actual historical evidence, no evidence at all, and only ONE ancient storybook written by no name authors from a time when only barbarian ignorant savages roamed the landscape…see the difference?

          • Joshua Sonofnone

            There were many living eyewitnesses to Christ – the only reason you deny them is that we don’t have the pictures and what happened at that time was not viewed by witnesses living today – if didn’t happen when persons living today could see it and record it, you don’t believe it.

          • pud

            Name one.

          • Joshua Sonofnone

            Peter, Matthew, John, Bartholomew, Andrew, James – would you like me to continue?

          • PietStassen

            Evangelical Christians should be very wary of this Patheos blog-page:
            The Blog Administrator (or some cyber-hacker overriding cyber-security) allows pro-Evangelical posts-comments to be erased and removed. Makes one wonder if it really is an Evangelical blog-page.
            ‘Mene mene tekel upharsin’: This blog-page has been weighed and found wanting.

      • PietStassen

        Evangelical Christians should be very wary of this Patheos blog-page:
        The Blog Administrator (or some cyber-hacker overriding cyber-security) allows pro-Evangelical posts-comments to be erased and removed. Makes one wonder if it really is an Evangelical blog-page.
        ‘Mene mene tekel upharsin’: This blog-page has been weighed and found wanting.

    • Theodore A. Jones

      “For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.” Rom. 2:13

      • Joshua Sonofnone

        I agree that faith without works is dead, Mr. Jones, but you lift this verse out of its context and don’t explain the context. The verse considered to be the theme of the book is “The just shall live by faith,” as seen in Romans 1:17b. If one keeps reading the book, one discovers that none are righteous in Romans 3:10. Romans is actually set up in the manner of a court case, but not just any court case. The book is set up in the manner of a case to contest the charter of a city. Normally, Caesar would have judged such a case, but God is the judge in Romans. Rome was the city whose charter was in question. The Romans would have agreed that the just would live by faith, but they would have believed that such a faith would have needed to be in their myriad number of gods. The Jews were witnesses against Rome’s disobedience to the law. In the end, God does not support either side, but indicates that faith in Christ is the only way of salvation and, yes, faith is demonstrated by one’s works.

        • Theodore A. Jones

          The word law in Rom. 3:10 is referencing the Sinai code, the law written on stones. The law referenced in Rom, 2:13 is the word REPENT which Jesus himself added to the law after his ascension in regard to the sin of murdering him by crucifixion. See Heb. 7:12
          You’ve got to figure which law Paul is referencing if you have the God given sense to do so.

          • Joshua Sonofnone

            Show me any of the Greek words that translates as REPENT in Romans 2:13. None of the Greek words in Romans 2:13 translates as REPENT in English. I do believe in repentance, but the word is not present in the verse you reference and you lifted the verse out of its context. Read the verses before and after the one you ripped out of its context.

          • Theodore A. Jones

            Even if God himself were to attempt to show you anything you would correct Him.

          • Joshua Sonofnone

            I don’t correct God – God corrects me, but do be aware that you are not God and neither you nor I will ever be God.

      • Susan Jane Elohim

        What a miserable hater you are John Arthur for spamming my conversations.

        I will never lift the block. That is final because I gave my word. Before I never gave my word but you have it now so you lose at your cheap attempts to control me.

        I don’t need this blog. I have other options.

        God bless you. I hope you repent.

        And if Jones is spamming me and not you Arthur then he’s wrong, too. Lots of people have misinterpreted God’s Word but the best people can admit a mistake and change and are both teachable and correctable.

        If God cannot correct you in the scriptures or another person by the scriptures then who can?

        You are too arrogant to learn.

        May His Grace Abound To You!

  • Raymond

    Quit feeding the troll!

    • Andres Desaya

      Thanks..best advice.

  • PietStassen

    1. I agree 100% with Mr. Jack Wellman, and wish to sum up the theme of his inspiring message as follows: “Only one life that will soon be past; only what’s done for Christ will last; and, if we stand for nothing, we will probably fall for anything.”

    2. What I find distressing these days is not necessarily the atheist-block’s constitution-driven insistence on ‘free speech’, but its peculiar ideological alignment with the Jihadists and Islamic terrorists of the Middle East, Europe, Asia, North & Central Africa and elsewhere. These two groups (birds of a feather?) incidentally have exactly the same agenda (!) i.e. they hate (or denounce) God, Christians, Jews, Jesus Christ, the Gospel and the Christian Church.

    3. Now I wonder: Were a Jihadist and a Christian both drowning in the same spot in a river, which one would the atheist save first?

    – the Christian?
    – the Jihadist?
    – Neither?

    4. Maybe the time has arrived for the atheists of this world to revisit their stance on God, the Bible, morality and the Gospel, or otherwise come clean and acknowledge that they are (if not militarily, then at least ideologically) on the side of the Jihadists/Islamic terrorists of this world … and shame on them. No wonder they wear the balaclavas of ‘aliases’ when they post comments; I would be embarrassed too if I were in their shoes.

    • Theodore A. Jones

      “For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.” Rom. 2:13

    • pud

      “christian” jihadist slaughters 50 muslims in New Zealand…perhaps you missed that?

      Demonstrate that any “god” past or present ever existed let alone your preferred one. waiting…

      • PietStassen

        Pud, in an earlier post you have written: “I am here just like someone fighting alcoholism would go to the pubs not the chrurches; I am here because I abhor ignorance, stupidity, superstition and cults of all kinds including yours.”

        You call the Christians on this blog ‘ignorant’, ‘stupid’, ‘dumb’ and ‘lunatic’. If you abhor ignorance and stupidity, why then do you spell the word ‘churches’ in the above example of your post as ‘chrurches’? You cannot even even spell the word but you want to lecture educated people on religion and Christianity? Amazing.

  • pud

    You are not a “friend”

    I don’t care what your stupid book says anymore than you care what the book of mormon says

    You’re a lunatic too

    Demonstrate that any of your mindless gullible ridiculous parroted “claims” are actually true

    Since you can’t you really have nothing to babble do you?

    • PietStassen

      1. Bon voyage, Pud!
      2. I see that you have deleted my comments after all; I thought so, because it reminds you of your duty to repent and make your peace with God, doesn’t it? Not a pleasant thing to look at all the time at all.
      3. However, no matter how many times or how thoroughly you may have ‘deleted’ it, what has been said has been said, and your comments to me (and to other Christians in this blog) will stand engraved into history and invested in God’s historical archives as prima facie evidence of your rejection of God’s mercy, kindness and forgiveness today … until you change your mind and repent, for only God can delete the record against you in the person and sacrifice of Jesus Christ at Calvary.
      4. Just bear in mind that, from today (16 March 2019) you will never in all eternity be able to say that (i) you did not know or (ii) that you were not invited. Let’s see your atheist friends stand up for you at the Great White Throne Judgment in Eternity; on that day it will only be you on the stand … alone and as naked as the day you were born.
      4. The Bible says: [Psalm 2:12] “Kiss the Son (JESUS) lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him (JESUS).” I invite you again as a friend to reconsider, make your peace with God and accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. You are angry and cynical not because you are suffering from ‘atheism’, but most probably because you (as most atheists do) are probably only going through a terrible spell of severe chronic depression. There is help … just call upon the Name of the Lord and you will be saved!


  • PietStassen

    1. My experience is that guys like Pud are probably (as most aspiring ‘atheists’ do) not only ideologically or spiritually challenged, but are also going through a terrible spell of severe modern, suburban chronic depression. In such a case people like that should perhaps consider the following:

    – A healthy diet supplemented by strong doses of magnesium and the Vitamin B complex of vitamins, especially Vitamins B6 & B12 (to address the physiological dimension of the problem)
    – The (first) daily reading of the Psalms (Old Testament) and the Gospels of Matthew and John (New Testament) (to address the spiritual dimension of the problem).
    – Drawing nearer to God, repentance and prayer.

    2. The Bible teaches:

    “Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.” [Isaiah 1:18-20].
    “Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. [James 4:8].

    • Andres Desaya

      PUD is being warned here always..as a previous believer, he is fully aware that “God is not mocked..”Galatians 6:7. Obviously, as a sour believer, only Christ can change his heart, Pastor Wellman says, we just pray for him.

  • PietStassen

    Maybe the time has arrived for the atheists of this world to revisit their stance on God, the Bible, morality and the Gospel, or otherwise come clean and acknowledge that they are (if not militarily, then at least ideologically) on the side of the Jihadists/Islamic terrorists of this world … and shame on them. No wonder they wear the balaclavas of ‘aliases’ when they post comments; I would be embarrassed too if I were in their shoes.

    • Wolf of Odin

      You are clearly a deluded moron.

      • PietStassen

        Dear ‘Wolf of Odin’:

        1. You’re just another embarrassed wannabe-atheist hiding behind the balaclava of an alias while suffering from ‘modern suburban chronic depression syndrome’ (‘MSCDS’) and erroneously mistaking it for the religious cult of ‘atheism’.

        2. The following remedial steps are sincerely recommended for this problem of people suffering from “MSCDS’ but who are under the impression that they are suffering from the religious cult of ‘atheism’. Recommendations:

        2.1 PHYSIOLOGICAL DIMENSION. A healthy diet which includes some regular supplements of magnesium and the Vitamin B complex of B Vitamins (especially Vitamins B6 & B12);

        2.2 SPIRITUAL DIMENSION. Daily readings of the Psalms (Old Testament), the Gospels of Matthew & John as well as the Epistles (New Testament). Finally, the entire Bible (including both Old & New Testaments). If you do that, you may just survive this problem, for the Bible has promised: “Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil. It shall be HEALTH to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.” [Proverb 3:7-8].

        3. You have the right to choose your beliefs and methods, but in the final analysis God (and not you) will choose the results and consequences for your choices. You write your cynical insults and today post your blasphemous, profane and banal comments with gusto and great relish while hiding behind the anonymity of your alias-balaclava, but, unless you repent, the day of reckoning will come down on you like a ton of bricks. Then it will be too late to retract your atheistic posts on this morbid and depressing little blog-page, or to delete it from its pages. The Persian mathematician, Omar Khayyam (1048-1031 A.D.), has warned that there will come a day:

        “The moving finger writes and, having writ, moves on. Not all your piety or with shall lure it back to cancel half-a-line, nor all your tears wash out a word of it.”

        4. The Bible has warned you too:

        [Job 8:22] “They that hate thee [GOD] shall be clothed with shame; and the dwelling place of the wicked [ATHEIST] shall come to nought.”
        [Job 21:17] “How oft is the candle of the wicked [ATHEIST] put out! and how oft cometh their destruction upon them! God distributeth sorrows in his anger.”
        [Job 21:30] “That the wicked [ATHEIST] is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.”

        5. FINAL INVITATION TO ONE ‘WOLF OF ODIN’. “Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.” [Isaiah 1:18-20].


  • PietStassen

    Evangelical Christians should be very wary of this Patheos blog-page:
    The Blog Administrator (or some cyber-hacker overriding cyber-security) allows pro-Evangelical posts-comments to be erased and removed. Makes one wonder if it really is an Evangelical blog-page.
    ‘Mene mene tekel upharsin’: This blog-page has been weighed and found wanting.

  • PietStassen

    Pud, in an earlier post you have written: “I am here just like someone fighting alcoholism would go to the pubs not the chrurches; I am here because I abhor ignorance, stupidity, superstition and cults of all kinds including yours.”

    You call the Christians on this blog ‘ignorant’, ‘stupid’, ‘dumb’ and ‘lunatic’. If you abhor ignorance and stupidity, why then do you spell the word ‘churches’ in the above example of your post as ‘chrurches’? You cannot even even spell the word but you want to lecture educated people on religion and Christianity? Amazing.

    • Matthew 22:37

      He obviously never learned to take every thought captive to Jesus so he is slaving away for Satan til this day. But he said he wants to “deprogram” Christians.

      Gotquestions dot org writes:

      How can I take control of my thoughts?

      Answer: Many Christians struggle with this issue, especially in our highly technological world, but taking control of our thoughts is essential. Proverbs 4:23 states, “Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life.” The “heart” includes the mind and all that proceeds from it. Someone said that every sin we commit, we commit twice, once in our thoughts and again when we act upon those thoughts. It is easier to rid our lives of sin if we attack it at this fundamental thought level rather than waiting for it to become rooted in our lives by our actions and then try to pull it out.

      There is also a difference between being tempted (a thought entering into the mind) and sinning (dwelling upon an evil thought and wallowing in it). It is important to understand that when a thought enters our mind, we examine it based upon God’s Word and determine if we should continue down that path or reject the thought and replace it with another thought. If we have already allowed a habit to form in our thought lives, it becomes more difficult to change the path of our thoughts, even as it is hard to get a car out of a deep rut and onto a new track. Here are some biblical suggestions for taking control of our thoughts and getting rid of wrong thoughts:

      1. Be in God’s Word so that when a sinful thought enters our mind (a temptation), we will be able to recognize it for what it is and know what course to take. Jesus in the wilderness (Matthew 4) responded to each of Satan’s temptations with Scripture that applied to the direction He knew His mind should take instead of beginning down the path of the sinful thought. When tempted to meet His physical need (turn stone into bread), He recited the passage about the importance of relying upon God. When tempted to serve Satan in order to obtain the glory of the world, He brought up the passage that says we are to serve and worship God alone and speak of the glory that belongs to Him and those who are His. When tempted to test God (to see if God was really there and would keep His promises), Jesus responded with passages that stress the importance of believing God without having to see Him demonstrate His presence.

      Quoting Scripture in a time of temptation is not a talisman, but rather serves the purpose of getting our minds onto a biblical track, but we need to know the Word of God AHEAD of time in order to accomplish this. Thus, a daily habit of being in the Word in a meaningful way is essential. If we are aware of a certain area of constant temptation (worry, lust, anger, etc.), we need to study and memorize key passages that deal with those issues. Looking for both what we are to avoid (negative) and how we are to properly respond (positive) to tempting thoughts and situations—before they are upon us—will go a long way to giving us victory over them.

      2. Live in dependence upon the Holy Spirit, chiefly through seeking His strength through prayer (Matthew 26:41). If we rely upon our own strength, we will fail (Proverbs 28:26;Jeremiah 17:9; Matthew 26:33).

      3. We are not to feed our minds with that which will promote sinful thoughts. This is the idea of Proverbs 4:23. We are to guard our hearts—what we allow into them and what we allow them to dwell on. Job 31:1 states, “I have made a covenant with my eyes; Why then should I look upon a young woman” (NKJV). Romans 13:14 states, “But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.” Thus, we are to avoid periodicals, videos, websites, conversations and situations that will set us up for a fall. We should also avoid spending time with those who would encourage us down these wrong paths.

      4. We are to pursue hard after God, replacing sinful thoughts with godly pursuits and mindsets. This is the principle of replacement. When tempted to hate someone, we replace those hateful thoughts with godly actions: we do good to them, speak well of them, and pray for them (Matthew 5:44). Instead of stealing, we should work hard to earn money so we can look for opportunities to give to others in need (Ephesians 4:28). When tempted to lust after a woman, we turn our gaze, praise God for the way He has made us—male and female—and pray for the woman (for example: “Lord, help this young woman to come to know you if she does not, and to know the joy of walking with you”), then think of her as a sister (1 Timothy 5:2). The Bible often speaks of “putting off” wrong actions and thoughts but then “putting on” godly actions and thoughts (Ephesians 4:22-32). Merely seeking to put off sinful thoughts without replacing those thoughts with godly ones leaves an empty field for Satan to come along and sow his weeds (Matthew 12:43-45).

      5. We can use fellowship with other Christians the way God intended. Hebrews 10:24-25 states, “And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.” Fellow Christians who will encourage us in the changes we desire (best if of the same gender), who will pray for and with us, who will ask us in love how we are doing, and who will hold us accountable in avoiding the old ways, are valuable friends indeed.

      Last and most important, these methods will be of no value unless we have placed our faith in Christ as Savior from our sin. This is where we absolutely must start! Without this, there can be no victory over sinful thoughts and temptations, and God’s promises for His children are not for us, nor is the Holy Spirit’s power available to us!

      God will bless those who seek to honor Him with what matters most to Him: who we are inside and not just what we appear to be to others. May God make Jesus’ description of Nathanael true also of us—a man [or woman] in whom there is no guile (John 1:47).

  • PietStassen

    Maybe the time has arrived for the atheists of this world to revisit their stance on God, the Bible, morality and the Gospel, or otherwise come clean and acknowledge that they are (if not militarily, then at least ideologically) on the side of the Jihadists/Islamic terrorists of this world … and shame on them. No wonder they wear the balaclavas of ‘aliases’ when they post comments; I would be embarrassed too if I were in their shoes.