What The Bible Says About Evangelism

What The Bible Says About Evangelism January 25, 2019

Missionaries have a very special calling, but so do Christians, because we’re all called to go and make disciples, teaching them what Christ taught His disciples.

Imperative Command

Jesus gives the church an imperative command in Matthew 28:19-20 where He said to “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” Just before He ascended back to the Father, He tells the disciples that “you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth” (Acts 1:8). The Apostle Paul was later called to be the apostle to the Gentiles. He writes that “the Lord has commanded us, saying, I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth” (Acts 13:47). Early on, during Jesus’ earthly ministry, “he called the twelve and began to send them out two by two, and gave them authority over the unclean spirits” (Mark 6:7). He sent them, or commanded them to go, so He gave them an imperative command. Later it says, “the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them on ahead of him, two by two, into every town and place where he himself was about to go. And he said to them, ‘The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few. Therefore pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest’” (Luke 10:1-2), so obviously we are commanded to go and make disciples, and then teach them the same things Jesus taught His disciples. We might not be able to go into all the world, but we can at least go next door.

Christ Directed

When the Apostle Paul first encountered the Lord Jesus Christ on the Damascus Road, he was told that “the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel” (1 Cor 9:`4). That’s why churches raise money for missionaries. They cannot go into all the world unless they are provisioned and prepared. Only then can they “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation” (Mark 16:15). It wasn’t as if the apostles could choose a Plan B. They had to follow Jesus’ command. Paul wrote, “For if I preach the gospel, that gives me no ground for boasting. For necessity is laid upon me. Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel” (1 Cor 9:16)! One way or another, “this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come” (Matt 24:14). Jesus Christ was proclaiming the gospel during His earthly ministry. After cleansing a man of unclean spirits, he told him, “Go home to your friends and tell them how much the Lord has done for you, and how he has had mercy on you.” And he went away and began to proclaim in the Decapolis how much Jesus had done for him, and everyone marveled” (Mark 5:19-20).

God Compelled

God told Jeremiah, “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations” (Jer 1:5). It was as if Jeremiah was compelled from birth to proclaim God’s message. Later he writes, “If I say, “I will not mention him, or speak any more in his name,” there is in my heart as it were a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I am weary with holding it in, and I cannot” (Jer 20:9), so the prophets and the apostles were compelled to preach the gospel, but the pastors are not the only ones given this responsibility. We are all responsible, so the question becomes, “How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news” (Rom 10:14-15)!

                                      Power of God

The Gospel doesn’t depend on human strength but on the power of God. The Apostle Paul wrote that he was “not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek” (Rom 1:16), so the gospel comes with its own power. If you have the Word of God and the Spirit of God with the power of God, He can birth the children of God for the glory of God. This ought to make the children of God rejoice because they have new brothers and sisters! The gospel’s going to comfort the afflicted, but afflict the comfortable, so it shouldn’t surprise us that “the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God” (1 Cor 1:18). The gospel is “to one a fragrance from death to death, to the other a fragrance from life to life” (2 Cor 2:16). I am glad it doesn’t depend on us, because none would be saved, so it is as God says: “Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit, says the LORD of hosts” (Zech 4:6).

Conclusion

What used to be the Great Commission has now become the “great omission” since so few are witnessing for Jesus Christ. It’s not that we don’t know the gospel well enough to share it. It may be that we’re afraid to speak up because we fear rejection, but we are not to fear people but fear God, and it pleases God when we obey God by sharing Christ. Besides, it’s an imperative command from the Lord our God; our great King, Jesus Christ. The fear of man is a stumbling block, but the fear of the Lord is the very beginning of wisdom (Prov 9:10). Who told you about Jesus Christ? Have you ever thanked them for that? Aren’t you glad they overcame their fears to share Christ with you? What keeps you from doing the same with others? Does your fear keep you silent? Be silent no more. Christ could return at any moment, or the person you want to witness to could die and then face God’s judgment (He 9:27; Rev 20:12-15). Today is the day of salvation (2 Cor 6:2). Tomorrow may be too late.

Article by Jack Wellman

Jack Wellman is Pastor of the Mulvane Brethren Church in Mulvane Kansas. Jack is a writer at Christian Quotes and also the Senior Writer at What Christians Want To Know whose mission is to equip, encourage, and energize Christians and to address questions about the believer’s daily walk with God and the Bible. You can follow Jack on Google Plus or check out his book Teaching Children the Gospel available on Amazon.


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  • I think the Great Commission was given to those in Jesus’s audience. It’s a stretch to imagine that it applies today, to modern Christians.

    • Because you are here in the modern day and you don’t want your “conscience” to be bothered by people pointing out how evil you are?

      Well if you had a conscience, you wouldn’t do any of the evil things you do.

      I also find it amusing that you would ban someone on a site named “cross examined” because someone actually cross examines and destroys your error. If cowards like you had no double standards, you would have no standards.

      • My standards include banning hateful people. What I have at my blog a shortage of is thoughtful Christians with provocative ideas or criticisms to share.

        Perhaps some ideas for your new year’s resolutions?

        • your standards are non-existent and your intellectual cowardice is as tiresome as it is typical.

          To you “thoughtfully must mean “agrees with me,” and “provocative ideas” must mean “blasphemous.”

          If you are capable of anything resembling an argument, you could try that instead of hoping blasphemy will make your shame go away.

          • Say, I have an idea! Next time you want to engage with atheists, be civil and have an evidence-based argument. Maybe it’ll work better than the hateful, empty approach you’ve taken so far.

          • I have a cogent argument and I answer in kind.

          • pud

            Since when do you or any “believer” respect “evidence”?

          • Matthew 22:37

            Do you think you could tell this to pud who trolls all the Christians on this blog on a daily basis with profanity.

          • (Can’t find your comment and so am replying here)

            I could recommend all the right books and teachers to straighten out your understanding of God’s perspective but you may not have the motivation to learn.

            You’ve got one perspective, and other Christians disagree. Which one is right? Maybe you’re all wrong. That’s the problem with an ambiguous holy book.

            You seem to be very self determined to replace His perspective with the one you learned from the world because you refuse to acknowledge Him and take Him seriously.

            Give me a reason to. Right now, Yahweh is in the same bin as Quetzalcoatl and Odin.

            But He is still producing great disciples in this world. He produces them in every generation.

            Why is that a good thing? Jesus preached the end times within the lifetime of his hearers.

            Oops.

            I will trust the one that produces the best disciples.

            And I will trust the one with the best evidence.

            Don’t take this as a scolding. I am merely correcting your error.

            There are Christians far more learned than you who say that you’re the one with the error.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Why do you have to say which interpretation is right?

            Why don’t you try building the perspective yourself with reference to teachers and bible tools when you need them.

            I don’t read everyone on Christianity. Not everyone has an equally good heart motive.

            But the NT does say the word is always true even in the mouth of a false prophet.

            Didn’t God say to guard your heart?

            Sometimes you can spot the truth/word of God in the mouth of a false prophet or just see someone unintentionally make a doctrinal error.

            Why would diligence in the scriptures and interpretive ability be equal for everyone.

            The key thing is the relationship with Jesus.

            Read John 15. Abiding in Jesus is where the unity lies.

            Spirituality is a growth process.

            Christians are affected by spiritual blindness, too, that’s one reason why they lean on the scriptures.

            They just have a lesser degree of blindness than unbelievers.

            If you want to be stubborn in your unbelief/spiritual blindness and get offended at the Word of God then I cannot force you to see, can I?

            You attacked my learnedness. What’s more important? Learnedness or integrity? I am not the most learned but I love to seek.

            The more you genuinely seek the more you find out.

            Isn’t your mind a seeking instrument but you can use it to obfuscate an issue if you want.

            If you never sought to understand God then what gives you the right to meddle with other people who may have?

            If you can’t seek then you ought not to opine because with seeking comes knowledge.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Oh and most important when you build your interpretation make sure it aligns with the character of God.

            He already said over and over that He is holy so which interpretation aligns with His holiness?

            He’s also powerful enough to create a whole world so is He really going to let someone destroy themselves?

            He changed Saul on the Road to Damascus. So so much for Saul’s free will controlling things though I am sure Saul did not lack faith, reverence and obedience towards God. He had just been taught wrong by the Pharisees until Christ corrected him. Free will comes from Greek philosophy so it is unbiblical though most of mainstream Christianity accepts it’s premises.

            Build your own understanding and stop questioning everyone else’s understanding until you do. That is a lot more honest than running around interrogating and judging people and trying to change them without even understanding God’s perspective.

            Build your own understanding and establish order in your own heart and mind before you question anybody else’s.

        • Matthew 22:37

          I was banned on your blog for refusing to play the debate game but not before some young atheist girl sent me posts insulting me over and over. I truly think she had an untreated personality disorder.

          I don’t remember anything hateful being said by me. I just refused to be your puppet.

          Maybe you should research into universal reconciliation, Bob, and stop holding this grudge against God.

          And you could try reading the online essay “God’s Reconciliation With Man” by Dr. Ernest L. Martin on the Associates for Scriptural Knowledge site.

          God loves everyone even while they are deep in sin without them loving Him back at all.

          He is much better than the average person.

          Have a great day! I don’t hold a grudge for being banned but I will not be trolled or toyed with.

          Peace be With You!

          • Remind me–how many comments did you make before you were banned? My demands are so minimal that the primary complaint I hear is that I don’t ban soon enough.

            Not sure what “refusing to play the debate game” means. Lots of Christians make empty “these arguments are terrible” comments, which of course does nothing to clarify where a problem might lie. That also does nothing to make a positive connection with the other commenters.

            No, no grudge against God. I do have some standards for a successful argument, though, and I won’t apologize for that.

          • Matthew 22:37

            I never counted. I used to debate and dialog with people for weeks at a time sometimes but it is impossible for me to promise that these days. Once I went around the clock with a Jehovah’s Witness for about 6 weeks. He was probably logging hours for his temple.

            I was probably on your blog under another avatar name less than a month.

            I have never considered myself the best debater but none of you have taken me down yet. Thanks be to God.

            I prefer exhortation to debate anyway. Why debate if you can exhort? So I gave up debating.

            The burden is on the individual to seek to know an answer for himself if he is a truth seeker.

            Debating isn’t truth seeking.

            And there are many forms of evidence.

            I find so many people insisting on pure logic are too quick to dispense with intuition, perception, common sense and social intelligence.

            Look at Harris out teaching people to dispense with social intelligence.

            You need social intelligence to communicate and navigate effectively between all the different kinds of people, personalities and intelligences in this world but Harris tells atheists to throw it out.

            God bless!

          • Debating isn’t truth seeking, but being exhorted is? That’s an odd approach. Has it ever worked?

            I find so many people insisting on pure logic are too quick to dispense with intuition, perception, common sense and social intelligence.

            I insist on a good argument, whether you’re arguing that my blog post is weak or that you have a reason for Christianity that I should find compelling. If you can’t convince me through reason, good argument, evidence, and so on, then I won’t be convinced by your argument.

            Was that a reference to Sam Harris? Not sure what you’re saying.

          • Matthew 22:37

            I didn’t say exhorting was seeking.

            Yes, Sam Harris.

            I have nothing more to add on this subject.

        • pud

          There are no “thoughtful” christians. You have to suspend all your critical faculties in order to join the cult and “believe” absurdities

      • Matthew 22:37

        I was banned off several atheist blogs and even an ex-Jehovah witness blog once by the atheist administrator for distributing a Gospel pamphlet. I got banned on a Christian blog once for believing in universal restoration and talking about it.

        On none of those blogs would anyone rational consider me to be hateful just truthful sometimes to an annoyingly high standard.

        Some atheists moderators even tolerated me totally. One was reading all the articles I posted but there was always a mob of them usually highly vocal online who acted xenophobically and these are usually the guys trying to force a debate and trolling for a debate. They throw out a normal question. The Christian answers it honestly or counters and the next post from the xenophobic-militant atheist will usually be a put down or an insult. They claim to want a rational discussion but only a few really do. Most of them want to browbeat Christians like they have a right to tell you what to think. This is strange in a world where there are many types of intelligences, there are certain personality types that
        are more disposed to be spiritual than others and most people if they thought about it would probably admit that diversity of thought is a human strength not a weakness. But you have many inside atheist circles coaching other atheists to regard theists as mentally deficient. Dawkins promoting his pseudo scientific idea of a mind virus and Sam Harris advocating conversational intolerance.

        Isn’t social ridicule like Nazism? It is what happened to the Jews first. Then things escalated. The next thing that happened is they were beaten, jailed and all their belongings stolen.

        Conversational intolerance =‘s someone believing he has the right to ridicule another person.

        But the atheists never have proven God doesn’t exist to most theists. They will not even accept the burden to prove it because it is impossible to do. So where have they established the right to subject another human being to incivility? You can feel that their ridicule is wrong even if you cannot intellectually understand why it is wrong and some atheists could have emotional issues and you don’t go out and tell the emotionally unstable that it is ok to ridicule people like Sam Harris has done. That is negligent advice and Harris should know better as a neuroscientist but he doesn’t he makes his negligent recommendation to other atheists anyway. Harris is self contradictory. He piddles around in Buddism unaware that some sects of Buddhism are theistic while he claims all relgion is wrong.

        • My favorite quote about harris was from a blog. They said something like “when sam harris is alone he pretends that he tries to convince himself that he exist, when he is on twitter he is trying to convince other people he isn’t a racist.”

          The joke being that harris apparently insists that both free will and reality do not exist, and he tries to do “meditation” to remove himself from reality.

          They are truly insane.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Well if you refuse to set a standard in your own mind then that means you can get away with anything you like so long as nobody catches you.

          • Reminds me of what Chesterton said: “you meterialists were on the edge of belief- belief in anything at all.”

          • Matthew 22:37

            Chesterton has another great quote about atheism’s vulgarity in asking which religion is right. I wish I could find it.

          • Why is it vulgar to ask which religion (if any) is right? Isn’t the best kind of “religion” kindness? You don’t need any churches, temples, mosques or synagogues to be kind to others, though they may help some people. You don’t need any religious gurus to interpret holy books or to teach others to be kind to them, though some may help some people. You don’t need any holy books to be kind to others either, though some may find them sometimes helpful. Just practice loving kindness and you will grow in it.

            The problem is that so many religious people want to vent their hatred towards atheists, agnostics and people who believe differently from themselves that often, some atheists and agnostics (but by no means all) show more love and kindness than many Christians do.

            Religious and atheist fanatics are the ones who show the least kindness and are intolerant of any view other than their own.

            If God exists, then I believe that God is love. He/she/it is compassion, healing mercy and loving-kindness and those who practice loving-kindness are of God. Now although people claim to experience the presence of God, we need to acknowledge that this is not necessarily evidence for God’s existence but it might be something that is simply going on in our mind and heart, independent of any god’s existence.

            Being kind to others requires us to be courteous to others, and often I am not kind but I am trying to grow in it. You have a great day!

          • Dear monster, I have no idea what you mean by “kindness,” but it seems you try to pass it off as acquiescence to your ego and total accepting of wrongdoing.

            That is not kindness, nor Love, but it is satanic to try to pass off submissiveness to your pretend-“almighty” ego as virtue.

            As Venerable Fulton Sheen said, the modern world has lost the transcendent and therefore lost any notion of personal guilt. Therefore it only recognizes social crimes and tries to see everything exclusively through the selfish, shallow marxist politics that you Godless reprobates run to nurse at.

            Reminds me of something gramsci said, that removing transcendent language would make the weakest of westerners into communists.

          • Who taught you how to dialogue with civility towards others? Is calling someone a “monster” civil dialogue? Most people know what acts of kindness are. They ennoble the human being who performs them and they enrich the lives of those who receive them.

            And NO, I don’t “… pass them off as acquiescence to my ego and total accepting of wrongdoing.”

            The hatred that you display is unbecoming of any Christian. But if you wish to create more atheists, you are doing a great job. No-one would want to be in a place called heaven if it is populated by obnoxious persons who cannot treat others with civility.

          • “dialogue” is hegelian dialectic nonsense.

            What I am doing is destroying your ego before it harms you and others further. A monster you are, and worse but I try not to use that kind of language that would be necessary to describe what you are doing.

            your denial of Heaven is not conscious due to your reprobate mind. All you seem to consciously choose is sin, and these silly subversive games.

          • A dialogue is a conversation between two (or more) persons. I never used it in any Hegelian sense of thesis, antithesis and a new synthesis. It is you who implied that I did. But apparently you want to pontificate “from on high”. Isn’t it you with the giant ego?

          • “dialogue” is the hegelian idea of using any means necessary to bully sane people to take incremental steps towards your position.

            That I stand my ground causes your demons to panic like they are about to be exorcized. I imagine that makes them attack you, which makes you try to attack me to shut them up. Either that or there is little left of you to stop their desires from directly controlling you.

            Is repeated “I know you are but what am I” really all your demons can come up with?

          • “Demons”. You’re mad!

          • you serve them, yes. I do believe this is enough time wasted on you.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Think about this. If you destroy your own mind or are insane then you could be declared mentally incompetent. To a greater or lesser degree every person on this planet’s sanity could be questioned. Sin has affected us all to greater or lesser degrees. Why anyone would lock himself up in sin allowing himself to be destroyed by it or controlled by it further is a mystery to me and I don’t think it is rational or well reasoned to do that.

            (Sin is like a communicable disease. The rational will seek to be healed and escape the disease not let the disease overcome their wills, life, etc.)

            Insanity is hard to prove in court. Maybe because there are so many people with mental problems that are outwardly functional and these people project false images to the public like they are their superior like Adolph Hitler did. But courts do appoint guardians of the mentally incompetent and their contracts can be declared void due to their mental incapacity to make contracts.

            Relative to God we are all mentally incompetent and not His equal.

            So as a good Father won’t He take care of us all? Especially the more deranged who increased in their insanity by a lack of true knowledge of Him? Or deliberate premeditated denial of His existence?

            God decides who gets the gift of faith.

            So why do some of these unbelievers get passed over and not receive the gift then act like spoiled brats and try to destroy the gift God gave others?

            They could have minded their own business, sought to really know Him and come into agreement and harmony with Him. They did not have to protest and break the peace of others. They chose to.

            They sow their discordance all over people who don’t want it communicated to them without any respect for another person’s relationship and afterlife decisions.

            Sometimes the insane call the sanity of the more sane into question but they did not bother mastering God’s perspective or defending Him did they?

            Christ was the sanest person the world ever saw. Righteous in his thinking, attitude and actions but if you deny him you get to stay under the control of sin. Choosing to stay under sin is weak willed and weak minded. The stronger willed will at least attempt to get free of sin or take Christ up on his offer.

            The ego could be so fragile in some people that they are incapable of self examination and God knows that, too.

            Narcissists, for one, have fragile egos.

            The humble are more secure. What does a humble person have to prove?

            Pride may be a manifestation of the insecure. They go around attempting to prove they are better all the time.

            Just some thoughts.

            Have a blessed day!

          • The capital sin of pride, the original sin, is believing that they have usurped God.

            Therefore that idea that God is there competitor Is always in them, and that makes them go insane.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Read Romans 1.

            I am trying to break the posting habit here. Debate is nearly impossible and not desirable on the Net because good fair moderation is non-existent and most atheists want to ad hominem attack at will and for some of them that is constantly.

            And no perceptive person subjects himself to verbal abuse willingly.

            A Christian is told to think on whatever is lovely. Not entertain all these imaginary and over inflated gripes and complaints that unbelievers want to shower people with on the Net.

            What gives them the right to try and break another person’s moral system particularly when it is the best one the world has ever seen?

            But the interpersonal boundary violating is an obsession with some of them.

            Fortunately, only about a third of atheists want to talk about religion. Most don’t care to. IIRC, I got that from a Barna statistic.

          • Matthew 22:37

            You have to consider there might be Satanists hanging out masquerading as atheists online.

            Richard Wurmbrand wrote a book in which he explained Karl Marx was really a Satanist and Marx’s real purpose in developing his communist ideas was to destroy religion.

            Stalin was a defrocked priest supposedly turned atheist. But if he was an atheist and not a Satanist then why did he have Tamerlane’s body dug up from it’s burial site and have the corpse flown in an airplane over German Wehrmacht lines for about a month to curse the Nazi Army? It was a pretty superstitious thing for an atheist to do, wasn’t it?

          • Just about every famous atheist is directly on the payroll of the main coven. Take that as insider information.

            marx’ poetry was all about him knowing he was damned for futilely grasping at God.

          • Matthew 22:37

            I read once that a lot of Marx’s works/volumes are missing. They say that he wrote a lot more than is currently available for the public to read. I haven’t read him but all the leftist atheists like Mao, Lenin, Pol Pot, etc. seem to have committed terrible crimes against people in the name of some utopia that they never brought about. They just killed and tortured a lot of people.

            Then the atheists in the West say “Oh atheism is purely political. Nothing to do with us.”. But people have researched it and the links between communism and atheism are unmistakeable. Besides the theory of communism is the brainchild of Marx who claims to be an atheist. Quite a few atheists want religion abolished and this was Marx’s way. He let his family starve in the gutter coming up with these ideas.

            Google the Militant League of the Godless to see how they operated. You could not advance in the Soviet communist party if you were not an atheist.
            They did not want separation of church and state. The state aimed to destroy religion and millions of Russian Orthodox people were killed.

            Also why are the Old Testament people more barbaric than we are today? According to atheists they are. We developed chemical weapons, the atom bomb, tanks, machine guns, etc. And have been known to use them in modern times. People still sell women and children in the sex trade around the world today and there are hundreds of millions of babies just wiped out in abortion around the world. Pro-choice people claim a fetus is not a person just a clump of cells but they have videos showing the fetus is aware and feels pain. But if you don’t see a fetus as a potential person then you can more easily write them off if you want to.

            Some of the modern false religions have links to freemasonry. Like the Jehovah Witnesses and the Mormons. The founders of both those groups were freemasons.
            The Ku Klux Klan is Masonic as well. The founder Albert Pike was a 33rd degree freemason.

          • All covens are merely fronts for the biggest one.

            That coven then serves as the spellworkers for a cabal of people who shall not be named. The freemasons and their equal secret societies were founded and lead by members of that cabal that shall not be named.

          • Matthew 22:37

            You may want to read “Glimpse of the Devil” by M. Scott Peck. He was a Harvard educated psychiatrist who claims to have performed deliverances on two patients who he claims were possessed then he wrote this book about those experiences.

          • There are plenty of quote sites on Chesterton around. Shouldn’t be too hard to find.

            All of his books and articles were collected in compilations, and all of them are on google books so they show up in searches.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Thanks. That quote was practically an argument in itself.

          • Tell me what it is when you find it.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Still looking for it.

            But I found this other quote I like which I did not know was his:

            “Just going to church doesn’t make you a Christian any more than standing in your garage makes you a car.”

            Other than these 2 quotes I don’t know anything about Chesterton really.

          • That is from John Wayne.

          • Matthew 22:37

            The site I just got it from said Chesterton but it may be wrong or else Wayne learned it from Chesterton.

            I suggest you find your block button and use it liberally on this comments section. It is loaded with trolls and people throwing out troll bait to promote discord on here.

            I have Seidensticker, Arthur, pud and Myles all blocked now because I don’t have to read false teachers on the scriptures or people who attempt to tear down my faith to please their false notion of critical thinking.

            They didn’t attempt to master and apply God’s perspective. So who’s really thinking critically or sane enough to think critically? A true knowledge of God can be blocked by one’s own false thinking or false idols one holds in one’s heart or by continuous hardened unrepentant sin.

            I may not even have to pray for these unbelievers as I feel Jesus has already prayed for everyone to be saved and ultimately God’s will will prevail. Not free will. But I will pray for them. That could be something God would approve of.

            Did God allow Saul of Tarsus’ will to prevail on the Road to Damascus? No, He didn’t let it prevail. Just because people have free will doesn’t mean God has to be a respecter of it. God is taking out the firstfruits in this lifetime but God’s timing and the order of His long range plan is difficult to see and that difficulty is compounded by human error and false teaching on the scriptures and lack of a knowledge of history and by translation error. Seek to not be controlled by human error and locate the best teachers on the scriptures. Compare line to line in scripture, teacher to teacher on the Bible and unified theology school to unified theology school. Or just try to master the Bible all by yourself. He who does God’s will will know the doctrine cf. Jonh 7:17.

            Read up on universal reconciliation if it interests you.

            There were false philosophical and pagan ideas that entered Christianity through Catholicism long ago. So seek to find it out for yourself and eschew the mad house of this blog’s comment section. Too much twisted thinking on here but God’s will will prevail in the end. There is no man ever born that was great enough to stop God’s will. He created this world so He can certainly correct reprobates by purifying them in the Lake of Fire after death. But wouldn’t you rather show God your loyalty and mettle and pass through the Baptism of Fire in this lifetime?

            I don’t know why so many hold this lifetime of greater account than the next but they do.

            Have a blessed day!

          • So are they common around here?

          • Matthew 22:37

            Yep. And prone to bait Christians to serve their own purposes.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Eureka! I found it on goodreads dot com.

            Here is the C.K. Chesterton quote:

            “The vulgar modern argument used against religion, and lately against common decency, would be absolutely fatal to any idea of liberty. It is perpetually said that because there are a hundred religions claiming to be true, it is therefore impossible that one of them should really be true. The argument would appear on the face of it to be illogical, if anyone nowadays troubled about logic. It would be as reasonable to say that because some people thought the earth was flat, and others (rather less incorrectly) imagined it was round, and because anybody is free to say that it is triangular or hexagonal, or a rhomboid, therefore it has no shape at all; or its shape can never be discovered; and, anyhow, modern science must be wrong in saying it is an oblate spheroid. The world must be some shape, and it must be that shape and no other; and it is not self-evident that nobody can possibly hit on the right one. What so obviously applies to the material shape of the world equally applies to the moral shape of the universe. The man who describes it may not be right, but it is no argument against his rightness that a number of other people must be wrong.”

            ― G.K. Chesterton

          • I have saved it for later.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Good. I still don’t know which book he wrote it in. It was on the goodreads site though. I only found it by being persistent.

            I have been listening to that sloppy “which religion is right” question from atheists for years as if it is their mantra.

            Their inability to determine it doesn’t destroy the certitude of a Christian.

            How their inability to determine truth trumps another person’s ability to recognize it and God’s revelation does not compute with me. It is a very poor analogy and they use it in an attempt to replace our order with their chaos.

            If God exists, then His logic would be the best and His knowledge of the nature of man. I wouldn’t even have to be very logical myself to be right in following Him. All I would have to be is His obedient follower until my life comes into agreement with Him, His will and His ways more and more a little each day.

            The modern world is busy destroying a knowledge of God and people’s attitude towards Him and replacing it with propaganda.

            It is hard for some people to get free of propaganda because it is essentially a lie repeated over and over and many will give in and acquiesce to the lie over time from the sheer persistence of it, the number of people joining the liars and a fear of man.

            Fear of man =‘s peer pressure.

            Essentially these insults on blogs by atheists could be an attempt to instill a fear of them in people. But they are not to be feared. God is greater than they are.

            If you are separated onto God then why worry about an unbelievers attempts to ostracize you? We (Christians) are not suppose to fit in with the world. You can’t do any better than to follow a holy being so why let someone else’s reasoning rock your boat. They are full of flaws and misassumptions but they keep insisting on playing philosophy games but a Christian is under no obligation to follow philosophical rules. Philosophy is man made.

            God’s thinking is higher and better.

            So why engage an atheist at all? I don’t bow to philosophy. I have no burden of proof. Not if I refuse to play by man made philosophy’s rules.

            It’s not my soul in jeopardy.

            If it was I wouldn’t be so negligent as to leave it up to the error prone debates and arguments of people. Especially not online where you cannot ascertain a person’s character. I would seek to know about God personally and that is what a lot of people have done that moved from doubt to belief.

          • It is from a newspaper article from 1930 he wrote.

          • Matthew 22:37

            I was just reading a good article entitled “Beware of Philosophy” on TrueGospel dot org.

            Philosophy has been a problem in the Church since the time of the Apostles.

          • Matthew 22:37

            If you want to read some good quotes then read some of Smith Wiggleworth’s:

            Some people read their Bibles in Hebrew, some in Greek; I like to read mine in the Holy Ghost.
            Smith Wigglesworth

            The devil knows if he can capture your thought life he has won a mighty victory over you.
            Smith Wigglesworth

            God does not call those who are equipped, He equips those whom He has called.
            Smith Wigglesworth

            There is nothing impossible with God. All the impossibility is with us when we measure God by the limitations of our unbelief.

            Smith Wigglesworth

            A man is in a great place when he has no one to turn to but God.
            Smith Wigglesworth

            Great faith is the product of great fights. Great testimonies are the outcome of great tests. Great triumphs can only come out of great trials.
            Smith Wigglesworth

            There is something about believing God that will cause Him to pass over a million people to get to you
            Smith Wigglesworth

            God wants us so badly that he has made the condition as simple as he possibly could: Only believe.
            Smith Wigglesworth

          • Not at all. gnosticism is the belief if you gain “enlightenment” or “knowing” or “illumination” that you will “be like gods.”

            That was the devil’s lie to Eve. Just because some heretics try to put a pseudo-Christian veneer on that devilry does not change that it’s devilry.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Did you know the Reverend Jim Jones was an atheist?

            I must have ran across a dozen or two atheists saying “don’t drink the kool-aid” online.

            All the time oblivious to the fact that Jones was an atheist.

            What kind of cult was he running? A cult of personality most likely.

            Atheists can run cults, too.

            Look at this quote from wikipedia on the cult of personality:

            Often, a single leader became associated with this revolutionary transformation and came to be treated as a benevolent “guide” for the nation without whom the transformation to a better future could not occur. This has been generally the justification for personality cults that arose in totalitarian societies, such as those of Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, and Mao Zedong. Jan Plamper argues while Napoleon III made some innovations it was Benito Mussolini in Italy in the 1920s who originated the model of dictator-as-cult-figure that was emulated by Hitler, Stalin and the others, using the propaganda powers of a totalitarian state.[12]

            Pierre du Bois argues that the Stalin cult was elaborately constructed to legitimize his rule. Many deliberate distortions and falsehoods were used.[13] The Kremlin refused access to archival records that might reveal the truth, and key documents were destroyed. Photographs were altered and documents were invented.[14] People who knew Stalin were forced to provide “official” accounts to meet the ideological demands of the cult, especially as Stalin himself presented it in 1938 in Short Course on the History of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks) , which became the official history.[15]

            Historian David L. Hoffmann states “The Stalin cult was a central element of Stalinism, and as such it was one of the most salient features of Soviet rule…Many scholars of Stalinism cite the cult as integral to Stalin’s power or as evidence of Stalin’s megalomania.” [16]

          • Actually jones was a communist, which is why they moved to communist guyana. They were not a religious community at all.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Not according to an article that I was reading on him. Then again communism and atheism might be linked.

          • Matthew 22:37

            They have quotes from Jim Jones and his wife on his unbelief. He did a taped interview.

            He was an atheist-communist.

            Quote:

            By the spring of 1976, Jones began openly admitting even to outsiders that he was an atheist. Despite the Temple’s fear that the IRS was investigating its religious tax exemption, by 1977 Marceline Jones admitted to the New York Times that, as early as age 18 when he watched his then idol Mao Zedong overthrow the Chinese government, Jim Jones realized that the way to achieve social change through Marxism in the United States was to mobilize people through religion. She stated that “Jim used religion to try to get some people out of the opiate of religion,” and had slammed the Bible on the table yelling “I’ve got to destroy this paper idol!” In one sermon, Jones said that, “You’re gonna help yourself, or you’ll get no help! There’s only one hope of glory; that’s within you! Nobody’s gonna come out of the sky! There’s no heaven up there! We’ll have to make heaven down here!”

            From an online blogger quoting Wikipedia and Jones’ wife Marcelline:

            “By the spring of 1976, Jones began openly admitting even to outsiders that he was an atheist. Despite the Temple’s fear that the IRS was investigating its religious tax exemption, by 1977 Marceline Jones admitted to the New York Times that, as early as age 18 when he watched his then idol Mao Zedong overthrow the Chinese government, Jim Jones realized that the way to achieve social change through Marxism in the United States was to mobilize people through religion. She stated that “Jim used religion to try to get some people out of the opiate of religion,” and had slammed the Bible on the table yelling “I’ve got to destroy this paper idol!” In one sermon, Jones said that, “You’re gonna help yourself, or you’ll get no help! There’s only one hope of glory; that’s within you! Nobody’s gonna come out of the sky! There’s no heaven up there! We’ll have to make heaven down here!”

            Hollywood has perpetuated the myth that all cults are Christian and/or right wing but they aren’t.

            What is a bigger cult than atheistic communism in China or the Soviet Union? That is a godless cult under the guise of a political party. Atheism walking around disguised as communism.

            This cult of personality where the meglomaniacs act like they think they are God crops up over and over again throughout history. People assume Hitler was a Christian but he wasn’t. He was an occultist who surrounded himself with other occultists. The Nazi Roundtable discussions which are online showing leading Nazis planning to eradicate Christianity one day. Aryanism is not compatible with evangelicalism.

          • hitler’s best friend was crowley and he even did work for crowley as thanks for the rituals crowley did for him.

          • Matthew 22:37

            I didn’t know that. Hitler dedicated Mein Kampf to a known occultist, Dietrich Eckhart. The higher up Nazis also engaged in a lot of strange occult rituals. I saw a tv documentary on it. The Nazis also spent more money on trying to locate some kind of occult power in Tibet than the U.S. spent on building the atom bomb.

            It is strange what you find out when you poke around in history. Most people don’t know the Dalai Lamas owned slaves at one time. Some atheists like to condemn Christianity over slavery and practice Buddhist meditation while oblivious to the slavery the Dalai Lamas engaged in.

            Another weird thing is Buddha made a lot of statements similar to the ones Jesus Christ made but the Old Testament is older than Buddhism so the OT ideas could have transferred around Asia in some way that we don’t know about. Ideas are easily transferred. In Buddhism they detach to handle the passions and in Christianity we attach to spiritually grow and handle them. Early history around the time of Christ and before seemed all about the ancients not being able to deal with their passions. Which is a problem still endemic to human nature today. So Christ comes along and says we need a whole new nature. Replace the old one.

            Have a blessed day!

          • buddhism is about “nirvana” (“blowing out” your soul, like you would extinguish a candle) so you can get “enlightenment” (becoming nonexistent, aka hell).

            The idea is that when everyone is “enlightened,” all of the people in nothingness will replace God. Does that sound familiar?

            buddhism is also a warrior religion like islam. The idea of them being peaceful is a result of an attempt by the Japanese to try to weaken the west into pacifism during the 1800’s.

          • Matthew 22:37

            I am not a Catholic. In Catholicism hell wins. In universalist beliefs God wins over everybody.

            Quote:
            Think of Jonathan Edwards who thundered the terrors of God and what Hell was like until men grasped their seats and hung on to them, fearing they were falling into Hell itself. Men were moved by fear to escape damnation. That was believed to be Christianity. Why any coward wanted to keep out of Hell. He might not have had one idea in his soul of what was the real true earmark of Christianity.

            -John G. Lake

            The secret of Christianity is in being. It is in being a possessor of the nature of Jesus Christ.
            -John G. Lake

            Fear of the devil is nonsense. Fear of demons is foolish. The Spirit of God anointing the Christian heart makes the soul impregnable to the powers of darkness.
            -John G. Lake

            In Christ we become God’s sons, man’s servants and the devil’s masters.
            -John G. Lake

            Gary Amirault wrote an article and placed it online on his site Tentmaker:
            “Was John G. Lake A Universalist?”

            Amirault who was a believer in Universal Reconciliation liked to call the Gospel “The Victorious Gospel of Jesus Christ” because Jesus won for everyone and is the Savior of all men as the scriptures state in many passages.

            Hell doctrine only dwells on defeat. But God cannot be defeated. So church doctrine was invaded by Greek philosophical thought with a false free will doctrine trying to justify eternal torment as if man’s free will controls everything. It doesn’t and never has. God controls all the spiritual gifts and the timing of when to give them so how does man’s free will control everything? God overrode Saul’s will when he was on the Road to Damascus. God hardened Pharoah’s heart. So free will is not controlling. People do have a will but it just does not control everything.

            Faith is the gift of God.

            Too many of the early Church theologians started to philosophize about the scriptures using pagan men’s reasoning without consulting the scriptures. Jerome made keyword translation errors in the Vulgate translation of the Bible causing a false eternal torment doctrine to be propagated in mainstream Christianity.
            People use this doctrine to try to coerce conversions and think they are right doing it. But faith comes from conviction by the Holy Spirit so why are some of God’s people threatening others with damnation?

            Chris Pinto has several videos on youtube explaining how the popes sometimes tampered with the scriptures, too.

            If you are interested in the keyword translation errors read the essay “Aion-Aionios” on Tentmaker by John Wesley Hanson. A lot of people have written on the error like Seth Tipton, Gary Amirault, Thomas Allin, Ken R. Vincent, etc.

            Tampering with the scriptures is not as rare as some people think. Thomas Jefferson re-wrote the Bible to match his own interpretation. Hitler had it re-written and had the Ten Commandments changed to include himself, the Jehovah Witnesses changed key words in their New Translation Bible to remove the deity of Christ, the Muslims and the Mormons have revised the Biblical accounts too even though Galatians 1 says there is only one Gospel delivered by Jesus and not subject to future revisions through angelic agency.

          • I know, and it was only a matter of time before I had to destroy you.

            Now, you can send yourself to hell with all manner of idiocy that you want. This will not absolve you of the consequences of that idiocy nor will you bring the Church down with you.

            As Hillaire Belloc said, gnosticism was created out of the weakness of pretending that evil is due reverence because of those with the capital sin of pride fear it despite them believing they have usurped God. This can then twist into the delusion of self-divinity you advocate for here.

            By denying the devil, you end up serving him, then you will join him.

            hell is the ultimate destiny of fallen man. The only reason you were born here instead of there is because you are given a time here to repent so you can go home. That you choose to hide behind your “gnosis” and deny the reality that you have this one chance to escape that destiny of damnation, will not make it go away.

          • Matthew 22:37

            I am not a gnostic claiming a special route to salvation.

            Nor did I deny the devil.

            Maybe you should stick to Catholic blogs where you belong since your reading comprehension is so poor.

            And the Vulgate does have translation errors.

          • The idea of “universal reconciliation” came from the jehova’s witnesses, so it is freemason.

          • Matthew 22:37

            It is not from the Jehovah Witnesses.. It is traceable back to the early Church fathers. No church council declared it anathema either.

            A Roman Emperor with no theological training declared against universalism.

            Read Halley. The history of the popes is atrociously licentious and violent.

            I am reading “The Criminal History of the Papacy”, Part 1 right now.

            The number of popes who bought the papacy is simply incredible. One pope bought and resold the papacy a couple of times.

            I am reading about the Cadaver Synod now.

            The popes have never apologized for the Inquisition which was started by Innocent III.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Some troll spammed this reply that I made to you:

            Popes claiming to be God on Earth!
            “To make war against the Pope is to make war against God, seeing the Pope is God, and God is the Pope.” -Moreri’s History. (Louis Moréri (25 March 1643 – 10 July 1680) was a French priest and encyclopedist.)
            “The leader of the Catholic church is defined by the faith as the Vicar of Jesus Christ (and is accepted as such by believers). The Pope is considered the man on earth who takes the place of the Second Person of the omnipotent God of the Trinity.” (John Paul II, Crossing the Threshold of Hope, p. 3, 1994).
            “The Pope is not simply the representative of Jesus Christ. On the contrary, he is Jesus Christ Himself, under the veil of the flesh, and who by means of a being common to humanity continues His ministry amongst men … Does the Pope speak? It is Jesus Christ Who is speaking. Does he teach? It is Jesus Christ Who teaches. Does he confer grace or pronounce an anathema? It is Jesus Christ Himself Who is pronouncing the anathema and conferring the grace. Hence consequently, when one speaks of the Pope, it is not necessary to examine, but to obey: there must be no limiting the bounds of the command, in order to suit the purpose of the individual whose obedience is demanded: there must be no caviling at the declared will of the Pope, and so invest it with quite another than that which he has put upon it: no preconceived opinions must be brought to bear upon it: no rights must be set up against the rights of the Holy Father to teach and command; his decisions are not to be criticized, or his ordinances disputed. Therefore by Divine ordination, all, no matter how august the person may be — whether he wear a crown or be invested with the purple, or be clothed in the sacred vestments: all must be subject to Him Who has had all things put under Him.” –Evangelical Christendom, January 1, 1895, pg. 15, published in London by J. S. Phillips.
            -These words appeared in the Roman Canon Law: “To believe that our Lord God the Pope has not the power to decree as he is decreed, is to be deemed heretical.-I?i the Gloss “Extravagantes” o.f Pope John XXII Cum inter, Tit. XIV, Cap. IV. Ad Callem Sexti Decretalium, Paris, 1685. (See actual document here)
            -Father A. Pereira says: “It is quite certain that Popes have never approved or rejected this title ‘Lord God the Pope,’ for the passage in the gloss referred to appears in the edition of the Canon Law published in Rome in 1580 by Gregory XIII.”
            “It seems that Pope John Paul II now presides over the universal Church from his place upon Christ’s cross.””Auckland Bishop Says Pope Presides From the Cross” AUCKLAND, New Zealand, SEPT. 20, 2004, Zenit.org
            “In founders and foundresses [of the consecrated orders of nuns and priests, etc.] we see a constant and lively sense of the Church, which they manifest by their full participation in all aspects of the Church’s life, and in their ready obedience to the bishops and especially to the Roman Pontiff. Against this background of love towards Holy Church, ‘the pillar and bulwark of the truth’ (1 Tim 3:15), we readily understand the devotion of Saint Francis of Assisi for ‘THE LORD POPE’, the daughterly outspokenness of Saint Catherine of Siena towards the one whom she called ‘SWEET CHRIST ON EARTH’, the apostolic obedience and the sentire cum Ecclesia of Saint Ignatius Loyola, and the joyful profession of faith made by Saint Teresa of Avila: ‘I am a daughter of the Church’. We can also understand the deep desire of Saint Theresa of the Child Jesus: ‘In the heart of the Church, my mother, I will be love’. These testimonies are representative of the full ecclesial communion which the Saints, founders and foundresses, have shared in diverse and often difficult times and circumstances. They are examples which consecrated persons need constantly to recall if they are to resist the particularly strong centrifugal and disruptive forces at work today. A distinctive aspect of ecclesial communion is allegiance of mind and heart to the magisterium of the bishops, an allegiance which must be lived honestly and clearly testified to before the People of God by all consecrated persons, especially those involved in theological research, teaching, publishing, catechesis and the use of the means of social communication. Because consecrated persons have a special place in the church, their attitude in this regard is of immense importance for the whole people of God” (Pope John Paul II, “Apostolic Exhortation on the Consecrated Life and Its Mission in the Church and in the World,” to the bishops and clergy, religious orders and congregations, societies of apostolic life, secular institutes, and all the faithful, given in Rome, at Saint Peter’s, March 25, 1996) (Emphasis added)
            “It seems that Pope John Paul II now presides over the universal Church from his place upon Christ’s cross,” said Bishop Dunn, who traveled with seven other prelates to Rome. Taken from an article entitled, “Auckland Bishop Says Pope Presides From the Cross” AUCKLAND, New Zealand, SEPT. 20, 2004 –Zenit.org (Article # ZE04092001)
            (Also note the term “Universal Church” is now being used!)
            “The Pope is of so great dignity, and so exalted that he is not a mere man, but as it were God. and the vicar of God.” -Ferraris Ecclesiastical dictionary
            “All names which in the Scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.” – On the Authority of the Councils, book 2, chapter 17
            “The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth.” Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, “Cities Petrus Bertanous”.
            “…the Pope is as it were God on earth, sole sovereign of the faithful of Christ, chief of kings, having plenitude of power.” Lucius Ferraris, in “Prompta Bibliotheca Canonica, Juridica, Moralis, Theologica, Ascetica, Polemica, Rubristica, Historica”, Volume V, article on “Papa, Article II”, titled “Concerning the extent of Papal dignity, authority, or dominion and infallibility”, #1, 5, 13-15, 18, published in Petit-Montrouge (Paris) by J. P. Migne, 1858 edition.
            “The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth…by divine right the Pope has supreme and full power in faith, in morals over each and every pastor and his flock. He is the true vicar, the head of the entire church, the father and teacher of all Christians. He is the infallible ruler, the founder of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils; the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by no one, God himself on earth.” Quoted in the New York Catechism.
            -Writers on the Canon Law say, “The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in heaven and earth.”- Barclay Cap. XXVII, p. 218. Cities Petrus Bertrandus, Pius V. – Cardinal Cusa supports his statement.
            .-Pope Nicholas I declared that “the appellation of God had been confirmed by Constantine on the Pope, who,being God, cannot be judged by man.” – Labb IX Dist.: 96 Can. 7, Satis evidentur, Decret Gratian Primer Para.
            “The pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not a mere man (…) he is as it were God on earth, sole sovereign of the faithful of Christ, chief of kings, having plenitude of power.” -Lucius Ferraris, «Prompta Bibliotheca», 1763, Volume VI, ‘Papa II’, pp.25-29

        • pud

          You have no “answers” for anything only irrational woo woo make believe delusions

      • Didn’t the Jesus of the Sermon on the Plain (Luke ch.6) tell his disciples to love their enemies? Did he not also say to them ‘Be compassionate even as your Father in heaven is compassionate for he is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked”? Your words don’t seem to be gracious and flavoured with salt. You call Bob evil. And does living and proclaiming the good news in deed and word mean that you tell people how evil they are? And how do you know what evil things Bob is supposed to be doing?

        And if the God of Jesus is merciful and kind even to those he regards as ungrateful, why do you think that he isn’t kind to atheists? Aren’t you meant to be kind to atheists? No all atheists are ungrateful and wicked. Some are very kind and compassionate themselves. Why not err (if indeed it is erring) on the side of giving someone the benefit of the doubt?

        And doesn’t your NT say, in the Johannine literature, that you cannot love God whom you have not seen unless you love those whom you have seen? Doesn’t this mean that the only way you can know if you love God, is whether you are showing love to others? And doesn’t the Johannine literature say that “God is love”?

        • Dear subversive and puppet of demons,

          Love is to will the Good is the other as other. The will can only be formed when you understand Good as Good. Love is so fundamental that God had to found it on Himself, and God is Love Himself because God creates for the Good of the created without any regard to Himself.

          Similarly, that I love Truth means I must hate error. That I love Goodness means I must hate evil. I try my best to hate evil with Perfect Hatred, meaning the same abhorrence that God has for evil.

          That is a different kind of hatred to the kind you are satanically projecting onto me. Woe be to you who tries to pass evil off as Good and Good off as evil.

          Now, if I hated you in the way your dark master hates you, I would encourage you to continue to send yourself to hell. Instead I try to break the ego that is chaining you into damnation.

          That you somehow confuse Love for permissiveness of evil, that is just satanic. Allow me to the be the first to tell you this: everything the demon told you is a lie and you are so wicked that you deserve what you seem to want so desperately.

          When you see evil and do nothing about it, that is a sin so grave that you become fully complicit in the evil you refuse to call out. Similarly, not being angry in the face of evil is a grave sin because it is a telltale sign of a dead soul.

          bob is a garden variety satanist merely playing at “atheism” to help his dark master damn weak fools. bob is unique in that he is smart enough to know he would lose any fight with me, so he knows to hide behind censorship and sneering.

          The GREATEST mercy of God is hell. Why? Because it permanently frees us of those like you and your dark master. Without it, all of creation might as well be hell because wicked like you will turn anyplace you are into there.

          So God gives the damned what they want (eternal separation from God) and God gives everyone else what they have been begging and pleading for since the fall (freedom from evil ones). God does not ignore sins that cry to Heaven for vengeance, nor the cries of people you attack and try to make suffer in the delusion that you will usurp God by persecuting Christians.

          I don’t think you understand that the prototypical prayer of the Christian is to be free of monsters. Being a monster, you have no idea what it is like to have to be tortured and hunted by the very corruption of your presence.

          As CS Lewis said, evil people have no idea what evil is like any more than sleeping people can understand sleep.

      • Matthew 22:37

        More Christians need to remind others that faith is by hearing. Hearing the Word of God.

        So God made people capable of judging whether or not to believe using our own senses. He made our minds.

        Only someone who doesn’t trust his own mind has to substitute man’s method, science, for his own God given mind.

        God gave us our own minds to assess the truth of a matter.

        Science was developed by man to assess material matters.

        It was never intended to assess spiritual matters.

        No matter how much certain people attempt to force that paradigm on people.

        It is so ironic that the people claiming to be the most intelligent were duped into surrendering faith in their own miraculous God given minds and substituting a man made method for their own reasoning.

        No wonder so much of what an atheist says is twisted.

        The devil is a deceiver and a liar. If you refuse to acknowledge Jesus and stand up to the devil then he can own you.

        Don’t ever let the devil get a foothold in your mind or you will end up a very negative minded thinker and personality indeed.

        The devil can work through our thoughts, emotions and suggestions just like God does.

        God will stand up and tell the truth and even write a book to warn you. The devil skulks so he can do his damage unnoticed to people.

        Without a standard of right and wrong then how would you know if you have been damaged or not?

        Have a blessed day!

    • Matthew 22:37

      Jesus said to disciple the nations, Bob. That must be a cross generational command because we are to train our children up to be true disciples by both teaching and personal example. Personal example transcends generationally unless we allow sin to interfere. But love covers a multitude of sins.

      We have a soul winner’s crown to win.

      Plus there are still many languages for the Bible to be translated into where people have not heard the Gospel in their own language. Not to mention the many who have heard false or corrupted versions of it. So there is still transgenerational work to be done.

      Faith is by hearing so people have to be proclaiming it or be sent proclaiming it for it to be heard.

      Have a blessed day!

      • Jesus said to disciple the nations, Bob.

        Jesus told the disciples to go to the nations. He wasn’t talking to you, since he saw the End soon.

        That must be a cross generational command

        Not if you imagine the End coming within months or years.

        Plus there are still many languages for the Bible to be translated into where people have nit heard the Gospel in their own language.

        It’s hard to imagine a Holy Spirit hobbled by what humans do or not do. If he has a mission, I can’t imagine he’ll let anything stand in his way. Or have I been misinformed about his abilities?

        Not to mention the many who have heard false or corrupted versions of it.

        And how are you going to solve that problem? You agree with the message from some missionaries, and you disagree with that from others. That wrong message is aggressively being pushed by those Christians who don’t get it.

        • Matthew 22:37

          Jesus said he did not know the exact time and date of the end and told his people to watch always and be ready.

          He also gave a parable that helps put his people on notice that the end is close but still no exact date. To God a day is like a thousand years so to God two thousand years would not be that long.

          God is known to wait decades or hundreds of years sometimes before He enacts judgment on people. He is much more capable of patience than people and most people don’t try to learn His plan with as much accuracy as they should. Even if they do it can be hard to describe it later unless you meticulously write every detail down because human minds are finite and people forget details.

          If a wrong message is being aggressively pushed maybe it is because not everyone is seeking to know like he should. How can you correct someone in the wrong without seeking to know the right information first?

          If I were you I would be careful to extract myself from the irreverent and faithless with irreverent interpretations, Bob. Understanding God’s perspective can be a long involved process. How could a person determined to dismiss God master His perspective?

          That may seem impossible for you to do but maybe some day you will see some wisdom in it.

          All of Jesus’ disciples called him “Master”. He was like a Renaissance painting master to them. They devoted themselves to learning His way and no one else’s. That takes dedication, reverence and commitment to do that. You don’t learn the right attitude to learn from God if you let the disobedient to God disrupt your focus.

          Hope this helps. Have a blessed day.

          • Jesus said he did not know the exact time and date of the end and told his people to watch always and be ready.

            That’s OK—we can find out nevertheless.

            1 Thess. 5 tells us: “you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness.”

            He also gave a parable that helps put his people on notice that the end is close but still no exact date.

            Some Christians have thought that it was any day now, and that’s been going on for 2000 years. Sounds to me like that sense of the imminent end is flawed (or the signal will be lost in the noise).

            To God a day is like a thousand years so to God two thousand years would not be that long.

            So it might be tomorrow, or it might just as likely be in 10,000 years?

            Even if they do it can be hard to describe it later unless you meticulously write every detail down because human minds are finite and people forget details.

            The real issue is that people deceive themselves. They readjust their memories to make them more pleasing.

            How can you correct someone in the wrong without seeking to know the right information first?

            There are 45,000 Christian denominations. Jesus’s message is clearly not unambiguous.

            If I were you I would be careful to extract myself from the irreverent and faithless with irreverent interpretations, Bob.

            Christianity is the West’s bull in a china shop. In the US, where I live, Jesus’s followers are causing lots of damage with their lack of concern over the wall separating church and state. That’s what drives me.

            They devoted themselves to learning His way and no one else’s. That takes dedication, reverence and commitment to do that.

            You think you’re doing it right, but there are millions of Christians who’d be happy to point out where (in their minds) you’re doing it wrong.

          • Matthew 22:37

            I wouldn’t touch the scriptures with a ten foot pole to argue or teach them publicly if I didn’t have the gift of faith.

            Because the Bible says we will all be judged on our words and deeds.

            But it seems like a lot of irreverent people or bad interpreters or false teachers are out handling the scriptures telling things that are not true to others. That makes it even more imperative people are the best students they can be.

            Whoever came up with the idea that the end had to happen soon after Jesus’ resurrection directly contradicted what Jesus said. Jesus gave the Parable of the Fig Tree and a lot of people won’t understand that parable because they won’t know the symbolic meaning of the fig tree.

            You may have trouble understanding that parable because you don’t have faith or reverence and have conditioned yourself not to believe and you are probably in the habit of disrespecting Christians and may be set in your ways so I don’t know how you will start to learn God’s perspective unless you have a complete attitude change.

            So I will pray for you.

          • I will pray for you.

            Good thinking. That always works.

          • Matthew 22:37

            How many prayed in God’s will? That’s God’s will. You know, the all knowing Father who is not your bellhop. He could say no for only reasons He knows.

            But my prayer may be redundant. I feel sure Jesus already prayed to God for everyone ever born and as His obedient Son God will honor his prayer.

            Also God’s will over rules everybody else’s and it’s His intent to save the world. Interpretation doesn’t control His intent does it?

            But some people are the firstfruits of the harvest and some are not.

            A favorite quote of mine:

            I may remark, in passing, that GOD is the Savior of no more than he saves or will save. If ten men are in danger of upsetting a boat, and I go out to save them, you could not call me the savior of ten, unless I saved them. If you saw me launch out for their relief, and knew perfectly well that I would save them, you could with propriety call me the savior of the ten, even before the work was actually done. But if it should turn out, in the end, that I should save but five, then it would prove, that you were mistaken in saying that I was the savior of the ten. So here, God is not the Savior of a soul more than he actually saves. True, that work is not yet accomplished. But the apostle knew that he had engaged in the work, and that he could not fail of success, and therefore he called him the Savior of all men. But should it turn out, in the end, that God should save but a part, then would it be proved that the apostle was wrong, when he called him the “Savior of all men.”

            I know it is said, that God OFFERS salvation to all, but it should be remembered that an OFFER of salvation is one thing, and SALVATION ITSELF is another. If I offer to save a man who is drowning, THAT does not save him, neither does it make me his savior from death. God may offer salvation to man, but that does not save him, neither does it make God his Savior. He is the Savior only of as many as he saves. Should any man dispute this, I ask him to go forward to the future world, and as he looks down into that dismal hell, in which he believes, and beholds the multitude of its hopeless inhabitants, let him tell me, if he will, in what sense God is their Savior? It matters not what may have been OFFERED them, what have they RECEIVED? is the question on which your answer must depend. I care not what MEANS may have been put in operation for their salvation. If these means were not EFFECTUAL, and they are not saved, then God is not their SAVIOR, and the apostle labored and suffered reproach for a trust, that was vain and futile in the extreme. – end quote

            Quote from I.D. Williamson’s The Nature of Salvation

            Go study up on universal reconciliation and look for the good interpretations on it. And no it doesn’t mean you don’t have to repent or be born again.

            And no I am not a Unitarian Universalist. I am non-denominational Christian universal restorationist/reconciliationist. Currently working on extracting as much Christian doctrine as possible from it’s early corruption by pagan and philosophical sources.

          • How many prayed in God’s will? That’s God’s will.

            I think there are about 6 cases where Jesus urges people to pray and promises that prayer works. “But you gotta pray in God’s will” isn’t a caveat for any of them.

            I know it is said, that God OFFERS salvation to all

            No, we’ve all gotten salvation already—Romans 5:19. See you in heaven.

            I ask him to go forward to the future world, and as he looks down into that dismal hell, in which he believes, and beholds the multitude of its hopeless inhabitants

            This is a tangent, but I do wonder how pleasant heaven will be when you know about all the torment going on concurrent to your time in heaven.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Done here. Thanks for the exhibition of a closed mind. Every time I dialog with an atheist that is what I get: a closed mind on the scriptures.

            You have no faith but want to argue other people’s relationship.

            That is like unwelcome counsel and meddling from a stranger on your marriage.

            No wonder people just shut atheists off without bothering. I once had a CMA pastor tell me he didn’t talk with atheists because they made him too mad. It must have been the nonstop irreverence and blasphemy.

            Too many of you react like Nazis.

            I am done with talking to kneejerk reactionaries and the closeminded.

            I will put you on block now. If you can’t receive a doctrinal correction of the magnitude of universal reconciliation with gladness then there is truly something wrong with you.

            Once again I am wrong for talking with an unbeliever on religion and the wisdom of Matt. 7:6 is validated.

            Keep making money off your grudge against God, Bob, if you must and leading rebellious malcontents.

            I have no time for your nonsense.

            I will most likely leave this blog and seek a more cordial place to talk with people. There is no point to commenting in a place where too many people like yourself need to be blocked.

            I mainly comment these days. The unblocked minds may be sparked to seek and research what I say. The close minded just waste my time with arguments.

          • Done here. Thanks for running away from a discussion.

            That is like unwelcome counsel and meddling from a stranger on your marriage.

            I call it “conversation” or even “debate.” But if you find challenges to Christian doctrine unwelcome, that’s certainly your option.

            No wonder people just shut atheists off without bothering. I once had a CMA pastor tell me he didn’t talk with atheists because they made him too mad. It must have been the nonstop irreverence and blasphemy.

            I’ve been irreverent before, but this wasn’t one of those times.

            I will put you on block now.

            Thank you.

            Once sgain I am wrong and the wisdom of Matt. 7:6 is validated.

            That you have a “don’t throw pearls to swine” attitude isn’t surprising. You’re just a fallible person. But isn’t it surprising that Jesus would have that condescending attitude about what is supposedly his flock?

            Whoops—there I go again, asking questions. Sorry.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Running away? I used to spend years on atheists blogs taking their verbal hazings. Now I wonder if God just wanted to record their words to play back for them later. The first long time visit on one very large and busy blog I was on was roughly 8 or 9 years where I was the original poster and opened dozen of threads for discussion hoping to persuade atheists. The atheists showed up in droves and there were dozens that called for me to be banned. I finally got banned by the new atheist moderator. The one before him actually seemed to respect freedom of speech and thought and would never ban me.

            Your challenges to Christian doctrine are like a an angry blind fly swatting at an elephant. The Bible says God can turn you over to a reprobate mind so how could a reprobate understand scripture accurately enough to act as an authority on it by teaching it?

            There is the authority of the believer principle. You don’t have any authority to teach on the scriotures because the authority is in Jesus and only believers have standing in Jesus. So it is
            nonsense you handle the scriptures at all as you have no calling from God.

            All Christians have the priesthood of the believers but you are not in that priesthood and every Christian who ever read the New Testament knows it.

            That’s why I tell people to pick the people they learn the Bible from wisely.

            See I never run. I just learned to pick my battles more wisely and to apply the Biblical principles and wisdom more wisely.

            You should be looking into whether or not there is any way to lift the reprobation not pretending an authority on scripture that is non-existent.

            You are not family of God are you? You are not and have never tried or even attempted to be a disciple of Jesus have you?

            I don’t need to debate and defend because I can exhort.

            When you exhort you are wielding the Sword of the Spirit. The Word is the Sword of the Spirit. It will offend some people and convict others and is able to divide soul from spirit.

            Why play defense when the best defense is offense?

            Your are not wielding the Sword to convict anyone just bringing judgment on yourself because as Pastor Wellman pointed out on this blog in one of his topics that is what one of the verses says. That the Word is our judge.

            Christians don’t really judge unbelievers. The Word does.

            Our job is the ministry of reconciliation.

            Read Book of Titus where it says a disciple should only tell the Gospel twice in a village that doesn’t receive it with welcome then shake the sand from his feet when he leaves that village. The shaking means judgment on those who refused to welcome the Gospel.

            You don’t welcome the Gospel. You don’t understand it. You just come over to this blog to challenge Christians from a false sense of authority. But you have no calling. The calling comes from God and the authority resides in Jesus for only his followers to claim and exercise.

            That is why I tell people not to read false authorities on the scripture. They could fallen away from God, have former knowledge gleaned from others but no earnest deposit of the Holy Spirit. A child of God is born again of God’s will.

            You don’t think you are born again, do you Bob?

            Enough of your charades.

            Go teach your false teachings to people without faith who have no standing in Jesus and refuse to revere God.

            Your teaching is gibberish to an evangelically minded person. It just displays a bad heart motive and no true desire to know.

            Just a desire to tear down what you never knew.

            God Bless. I hope you repent some day!

            No more to say on this.

          • Matthew 22:37

            I suggest you wiki Richatd Wurmbrand sometime. Lots of Christians don’t fear you.

            Wurmbrand went out to evangelize the atheistic horde known as the Red Army in Romania and was imprisoned and tortured for Christ by the Russians in an underground Moscow jail for 14 years. He lived to start the Voice of the Martyr.

            Did he run?

          • pud

            It’s a book Bob….a make believe book.

          • “I wouldn’t touch the scriptures with a ten foot pole or argue or teach them publicly if I didn’t have the gift of faith.”

            Don’t the leaders of over 40,000 different denominations claim to have faith? Yet there are hundreds of different views in Christian theology, ethics, practice and biblical interpretation, so how can “faith” possibly be an accurate method of assessing the “truth”?

            Yet some of the views that you have expressed on this website, which you claim to know are “true” by “faith”, are regarded by Evangelical scholars as heretical, yet you still claim to be an Evangelical Christian. Universalism is regarded by most Evangelical scholars as false. Denial of the triune God is regarded as being heretical, yet you affirm both of these.

            Why are you so certain that you are right? No amount of subjectivism or so-called “faith” can determine the “truth”. All you have are religious intuition and religious feelings establishing “truth” for you. These mechanisms are unreliable.

          • Poor demon.

            Faith is founding oneself in God, as there is no other foundation.

            There is a Church and a Magesterium of the Church one can look into. Also the Dogmas of the Church which are based on Good, hard thinking and solid foundation.

          • Do you mean the Catholic Church?

          • A heretic is someone who denies the Truth in order to replace it with something of their own creation. Like someone who refuses food in order to eat their own fecal matter.

            I have no issue with executing murderers of souls, but there was clearly not enough to of that considering you monsters are still around.

            No, the delusion of the Church “torturing” people was created by the classical liberals to cover up their actual torture of people in “revolution.”

            Just like how modern liberals blame the Church for all the sexual perversion the liberals alone partake in. Which I notice you even try to push as well. I imagine you are as Venerable Fulton Sheen said, someone who hates a strawman of the Church because you hope it helps you ignore the real Church.

            That you try to project your own devilry is just despair.

          • So you have “… no issue with executing the murderers of souls…”

            You want “murderers” of non existent souls executed for imaginary thought crimes. What murderous butchery you support!

          • Not at all. There is no sin to defend yourself or kill the guilty, in fact it is necessary for humanity’s survival.

            The soul is what animates you, and your peddling of evil kills the most valuable thing in existence and sends them to enter all suffering in hell. Make no mistake, you will be punished exactly in the proportion of the people you tried to lead to damnation with your subversive attacks.

            That the Church was too kind to you monsters is why your kind survives today. If only the Church was as “cruel” as you pretend we were, the world would not be perishing.

          • Humans survived for thousands of years before religion was invented. Killing non religious people is just plain murder. You have murder in your heart and you know what Jesus said about that, don’t you?

          • There is no survival in fallen man, as we are already dead. The only reason we were born here at all is to give a chance to repent and get home.

            murder is killing of innocents. Something you do in honor of your dark master by trying to drag people to the pit with you. There is no special term for killing the guilty, as that is necessary for survival.

            Once more, woe be to you who calls evil as Good and Good as evil.

            Most importantly, attempting to project your own evil onto me by despair is mortally sinful. you are a killer of souls, and you think your “gnosis” will allow you to scapegoat me and make me be punished in your place. you will eternally find out that you cannot project your wrongdoing, especially onto the innocent.

            The ancient pagans called this delusion of projected wrongdoing onto the innocent as “sacred violence.” That weapon was destroyed by the Resurrection.

            There is one soul you have murdered in this conversation though: your own. Both despair and calumny are mortal sins, which means they kill your soul outright.

          • “Both despair and calumny are mortal sins, which means they kill your soul outright.”

            You are talking about yourself. You need to repent! But hey, you are doing a great job promoting atheism by your vitriolic comments. Well done!

          • pud

            “Faith” is THE most dishonest position anyone can take. There is nothing, no matter how absurd, that can’t be taken by “faith”

        • pud

          Clue…it’s all bullshit. Ridiculous nonsense swallowed by credulous simpletons

    • NorrinRadd

      Does that mean that “I am the vine, you are the branches” only applied to those present at the Last Supper? Did “You must be born again” only apply to Nicodemus?

      • Remember the superpowers Jesus gives the disciples (Matt. 10:1 and 18:18; John 20:23). That’s another clue that Jesus wasn’t burdening you with the Great Commission.

        • Jack Wellman

          Great point Mr. Seidensticker. When Jesus said to go into all the world to make disciples, He told them to teach them the same things that He taught His disciples, and part of that teaching that they were just then experiencing, was to go and make more disciples, who in turn make more disciples…disciples of Jesus go and seek to make other disciples for Jesus, teaching them to do what He commanded (Matt 25:35-36; John 13:34-35) which also included making disciples (Matt 28:18-20; Acts 1:8), although we recognize God alone gives the increase (Acts 2:47), yet what joy to be used by God as a means to reach and Him save some! That’s joy, off the charts. What joy those who are silent miss!

          • I’m missing your point. I don’t see anywhere in those verses where Jesus makes clear that this is an intergenerational thing–Jesus teaches his disciples, then they teach more, then those teach more, and so on through time.

            Combine that with Jesus’s apocalyptic vision, that the world would end within months or years, and it’s clear that that wasn’t what he was saying.

          • Jack Wellman

            Jesus told the disciples to teach them the same things He had taught them, and at times, the were sent out two by two, and Paul said how will they know if they have not heard it. Jesus telling them to teach them the “same things” He had taught them, and part of those “same things” are making disciples, so that’s part of what they’re to do and well as we. That is abundantly clear to me. To you, maybe not, but I believe it is an imperative command for all. In your view, Paul didn’t have this commission either? What about Romans 10:13-14 where Paul says “For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?” Obviously not all will obey this or understand that it is for them, but even Daniel shows some will and some will not share Christ with the lost (Dan 12:2-3). Thank you anyway sir. Leaving the conversation over this subject.

    • Matthew 22:37

      I sent you another post, Bob, not using the reply button. Hope you can find it.

      Soon I will re-instate the block.

      Have a great life. I am sure the Pastor will respond to you every now and then. You can look forward to that. He has the manners of a perfect gentleman and displays them on this blog. Quite a disciple of Jesus, he is.

      Mark 3:35, NASB

      33Answering them, He said, “Who are My mother and My brothers?” 34Looking about at those who were sitting around Him, He said, “Behold My mother and My brothers! 35“For whoever does the will of God, he is My brother and sister and mother.”

      • If my comments trouble you, I urge you to block them immediately.

        • Matthew 22:37

          Wishing you all the best with your seeking.

          Have fun!

        • Matthew 22:37

          Bob, I hope you meditate on this verse.

          Meditating is similar to worrying. It is constantly thinking about something until you come to your “Aha moment!”

          From Romans 10, NASB

          14How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!”

          16However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?” 17So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

          Please note faith comes by hearing. So our minds are good enough to decide the truth because our senses are cojoined with our brains which are weighing/judging instruments.

          Who taught you to doubt your God given miraculous mind in favor of science?

          Did something tempt or confuse you so you were willing to give up the judgment of your own mind and senses and surrender to the thinking of others thereby subjecting yourself to science?

          How can a discipline that deals with the material assess the spiritual/metaphysical?

          What made you give your own mind away to outside authorities?

          No need to answer. Just ponder it.

          God says faith is by hearing and you should be able to say aye or nay to God using His testimony independent of any man made standard.

          There are a lot of things competing for our thoughtlives and our wills in this world. I hope you find the time to find a good teacher who has both faith and reverence for God. Revelation could be progressive and you don’t want an unqualified/uncalled teacher impeding your understanding of God’s perspective.

          Have a blessed day!

          • Bob, I hope you meditate on this verse.

            Is this a reciprocal thing? Can I suggest some passage in the book of supernatural claims made by some other religion and expect you to meditate on it?

            14How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed?

            I’m happy to believe—just give me compelling evidence.

            How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?

            I’m not sure what your point is with this. That Paul was urging his readers to evangelize? That’s fine, but Jesus still didn’t give them the Great Commission. Maybe with this letter, written 20+ years after the crucifixion, Paul was getting a clue that Jesus’s apocalyptic claims weren’t going to come true. Time for Plan B, I guess.

            But then perhaps I’ve gone off on a tangent if I misunderstood what your point was.

            Please note faith comes by hearing.

            I have no use for faith, thanks. I believe things based on good evidence—just like you in every walk of life except for religion.

            Who taught you to doubt your God given miraculous mind in favor of science?

            God, apparently. Why did he give me a big brain except to use it. When we’re standing in judgement, I’ll have a good answer to his challenge, “And what did you do with that brain I gave you?” How about you?

            Did something tempt or confuse you so you were willing to give up the judgment of your own mind and senses and surrender to the thinking of others thereby subjecting yourself to science?

            . . . so said Matthew, as he typed on a computer and used electricity, lights, and the internet, as he communicated nearly instantaneously with Bob many miles away.

            Maybe you’re “subjecting yourself to science” as well.

            What made you give your own mind away to outside authorities?

            Uh . . . I’m the one who’s thinking for himself. You’re the one in an evidence-free belief system, remember?

            God says faith is by hearing and you should be able to say aye or nay to God using His testimony independent of any man made standard.

            I know, right? How stupid is that? You’re going to quote as authoritative a passage from your religious book to someone who doesn’t share your religion. Maybe you should rethink that.

            I hope you find the time to find a good teacher who has both faith and reverence for God. Revelation could be progressive and you don’t want an unqualified/uncalled teacher impeding your understanding of God’s perspective.

            You’re a funny guy! There are 45,000 Christian denominations. You’d object to the doctrine preached at many of them, even though they call themselves Christian. My getting training from them might be driving me into Satan’s arms.

            You really should speak to God about the ambiguity of his message. He’s not doing himself any favors.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Well have a nice day Bob. I am not named Matthew in real life. I just like that passage.

            I am most likely on a tangent. I am the queen of going off on tangents it seems.

            But seriously. Think about it. Faith is by hearing. God gave general revelation so He supplied the proof of His existence. Then further supplied proof with Jesus who demonstrated His love for His creation.

            I don’t need an argument and I don’t think you do either.

            You just need to get mentally unblocked to God’s revelation.

            God is the most critical thinker in the universe if He exists and I think He does.

            But if your bias is against Him then we can play “provide the evidence” all day while I supply the evidence and you superciliously change the goal posts for that evidence.

            I hope you learn the right attitude to become a seeker, Bob. I really do because faith and science are not an either/or situation.

            If all you can do is tear down the scriptures and cannot obey God then how can you become one of His works in progress?

            You can debate all you want but you can never experientially understand God’s perspective like someone who submitted and followed Him can.

            So really your arguments are vain.

            You can sit outside rendering judgments off of superficial observation or you can actually put yourself in God’s hands and learn the truth.

            This life could be one long spiritual journey and you don’t get to experience that by sitting outside objecting.

            If I say skydiving is great but you refuse to try then really why comment on another person’s experience negatively?

            Some things have to be experienced to be more fully understood. Maybe that is why God said to be a doer of His Word. Doing is self actualizing.

            God Bless! No need to argue if you have faith in your own mind and can really think and compare. The Bible is a book where God likes to contrast things. Light and dark, life and death, etc. All to illuminate the human mind.

          • I am not named Matthew in real life.

            That was my guess. I needed a placeholder.

            Think about it. Faith is by hearing.

            I told you: I have no use for faith. You only use it because you don’t have evidence to support your belief, so you whip up faith to do so.

            God gave general revelation so He supplied the proof of His existence.

            Nope. No proof of God’s existence.

            Then further supplied proof with Jesus who demonstrated His love for His creation.

            It’s a story. Should I believe the story of Mohammed as well? Or Joseph Smith? Or L. Ron Hubbard?

            You just need to get mentally unblocked to God’s revelation.

            You just need to get mentally unblocked to Xenu’s revelation.

            But if your bias is against Him then we can play provide the evidence all day while I supply the evidence and you superciliously change the goal posts.

            I’ve changed the goal posts? Show me.

            I hope you learn the right attitude to become a seeker, Bob.

            Oh? Model that for me. Seek after the Mormon god for a year and tell me how that goes.

            If all you can do is tear down the scriptures and cannot obey God then how can you become one of His works in progress?

            Give me evidence.

            You can sit outside rendering judgments off of superficial observation or you can actually put yourself in God’s hands and learn the truth.

            So the plan is that we just presuppose that you’re correct, identify my position as wrong, and then scold me for not moving to your belief?

            I change my belief based on evidence. You’ve got none.

            If I say skydiving is great but you refuse to try then really why comment on another person’s experience negatively.

            Xenu is great. If you refuse to adopt Scientology, you’re missing out, my friend. (Or Mormonism or Bahai or . . .)

            Are you beginning to see how presupposing your position as correct doesn’t make a compelling message?

          • Matthew 22:37

            Seriously, Bob. I have provided evidence in the past but never found an atheist mind open enough to consider it. After dialoging with approximately 400 atheists none of whom seemed to be examining the evidence or going out to get any for himself.

            If the atheist’s mind was open enough then he should be seeking the evidence on his own not casting burdens on other people.

            Some people have claimed to have been atheists then sought to find out for themselves and changed to believers. But I haven’t seen any of them that took the lazy debate method change. There could be someone who received a crack of light debating but how is that truth seeking?

            And I’m not the dogmatic one if I can change theological positions which I have more than once.

            Your evidence demand is simply an attempt to deny the spiritual with the material.

            I really wish I had that Chesterton quote on atheism’s vulgarity on drawing false analogies between religions but unfortunately I neglected to write it down.

            I guess demanding evidence is a symptomatic defense mechanism of someone who refuses to see.

            I personally don’t need as much physical evidence as some because I can tell from examining people.

            That’s ok. I don’t expect a logically dominated person like you to understand but some people are a lot more perceptive than others. Study Myers Briggs personality types on it there are only 16.

            The preference of your personality type and the disposition of your brain type has no right to interfere or dominate with the intellectual workings of someone of a different personality and brain type. Some people lean toward the intuitive. Some lean toward the right or the left brain, etc.

            Most people are both intuitive and logical at the same time and people could sort and prioritze information differently.

            So why the insistence on logic reigning supreme? It is simply your personal preference reinforced by learning.

            So there is no reason for me to assume you sorted or reasoned any information better than a theist.

            My mind could work differently than your’s does.

            Besides the greatest intellect in the universe said faith is by hearing. Meaning a person’s own judging capability is sufficient to believe unless one allows their priorities to be re-arranged and I don’t.

            So atheism will lose on brain science.

          • I have provided evidence in the past but never found an atheist mind open enough to consider it. After dialoging with approximately 400 atheists none of them examining the evidence or going out to get any for himself.

            Maybe (dare I say it?) your “evidence” is crap.

            Do you suppose that, if it came from another religion, it would convince you to switch away from Christianity? If you wouldn’t find it compelling, don’t expect me to.

            If the atheist’s mind was open enough then he should be seeking the evidence on his own not casting burdens on other people.

            Learn what “burden of proof” means. You’re making the extraordinary claim. You defend it.

            Some people have claimed to have been atheists then sought to find out for themselves and changed to believers.

            No one like me ever becomes a believer for intellectual reasons.
            https://www.patheos.com/blogs/crossexamined/2012/10/i-used-to-be-an-atheist-just-like-you-2/

            And I’m not the dogmatic one if I can change theological positions which I have more than once.

            Good to hear. Tell me what would get you to either deconvert or convert to another non-Christian religion.

            Your evidence demand is simply an attempt to deny the spiritual with the material.

            My evidence demand is giving Christian claims the most respect I could possibly give them: I’m assuming that they’re strong enough to withstand critique. You’re welcome.

            Now: give me a strong case for Christianity.

            I guess demanding evidence is a symptomatic defense mechanism of someone who refuses to see.

            Wrong again. It all comes down to evidence. I have no use for faith, remember?

            I personally don’t need as much physical evidence as some because I can tell from examining people.

            I can’t even imagine what that means.

            That’s ok. I don’t expect a logically dominated person like you to understand but some people are a lot more perceptive than others.

            Spooky. I guess I just don’t have your Gift.

            The preference of your personality type and the disposition of your brain type has no right to interfere or dominate with the intellectual workings of someone of a different personality and brain type.

            That’s fine. I’ll still mock someone who claims that their holy book’s claim that the evidence is there is binding on the nonbeliever.

            You’ve got no evidence. If that doesn’t bother you, that’s a shame. But it won’t convince me.

            Some people lean toward the intuitive. Some lean towar the right or the left brain, etc.
            Most people are both intuitive and logical and people could sort and prioritze information differently.

            “I know that it’s weird in this age of science to believe for non-evidentiary reasons, but here’s my rationale . . .”

            Whatever. That isn’t how it works for me. And it isn’t how it works for you in every other area of your life. You look for evidence to cross the street, change your mind, or choose a health care option. And you’d be as skeptical as I am about a new religion—LDS, Scientology, etc.

            So there is no reason for me to assume you sorted or reasoned any information better than a theist.

            Of course there is. Go read my blog and see how poorly the Christian arguments hold together.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Well I see your mind is made up. So let’s agree to disagree.

            Debating was mainly a springboard into research for me and now my beliefs are firmer than ever.

            God Bless! Cya.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Almost read your blog article but won’t now because you banned me from it.

            Besides atheism labors under too many false stereotypes.

            There is an article online correcting you called “Yes, Bob Seidensticker, Christianity Built the Universities and Hospitals.”

            I don’t know why atheists never deal with their own predilection towards a cult of personality while condemning religion but they don’t.

            I guess if you are an atheist meglomaniac you could raze religion to the ground in your mind and real life if you manage to seize power then set yourself up in God’s stead. That’s what Stalin and Mao did and they set up idols and pictures of themselves in all the public places, too. Mao even had a little red book issued to everybody telling them what to think.

            Enough out of me. Per Acts 19:9 I am not required to debate the obstinately opposed to Christianity.

            I am just pointing out atheist errors.

            Christians are obliged to follow God’s Way and don’t have to concede to the false philosophizing or rationalizations of men. God never places a burden of proof on Christians as He has already supplied the proof for everyone.

            Why would I concede to the false rationalizations and burdens of philosophy when it is worldly.

            I am a child of God and we are separated onto God to learn His ways not concede to the ways of the world including false burdens of philosophical proof.

            If God’s proof is not sufficient for you then that is your personal problem.

            Stop laying your problem on the back of Christians and seek to solve it yourself.

            The children of God don’t identify with the world and the worldly and it’s thinking. We allow our thinking to be enlightened and shaped by the Potter.

            Why would I submit to a man made yoke in my thoughtlife? Never. Not when Jesus is the burden lifter.

            Have a blessed day!

          • Almost read your blog but won’t now because you banned me from it .

            Whew! That was a close one. Good catch! That’ll teach me, eh?!

            But remind me: why did I ban you?

            There is an article online correcting you called “Yes, Bob Seidensticker, Christianity Built the Universities and Hospitals.”

            Is this a non sequitur or does it tie in somehow?

            Sure, I’ll accept that claim. Read my post and you’ll see that I do. (Hmm. Maybe the issue is something else . . .)

            I don’t know why atheists never deal with their own predilection towards a cult of personality while condemning religion but they don’t.

            Expand on this. Whose personality do we have a cult of? Saint Christopher (Hitchens)? Pope Richard (Dawkins)? Our savior Charles Darwin (peace and/or glitter be upon him)?

            I guess if you are an atheist meglomaniac

            Yup, you’ve got me. That’s my goal.

            That’s what Stalin and Mao did and they set up idols and pictures of themselves in all the public places.

            Yes, very much like religion. And very unlike how atheists in the West see themselves or their perfect society.

            Enough out of me. Per Acts 19:9 I am not required to debate the obstinately opposed to Christianity.

            So much for the magical Holy Spirit who’s able to convince anyone. Y’know, it’s almost like these guys don’t even exist for al the help they’re providing you. But maybe I overestimate the value of omnipotence.

            I am just pointing out atheist errors.

            Sure, have at it. Go ahead and point out some.

            Christians are obliged to follow God’s Way

            What way is that? You guys can’t agree among yourselves.

            and don’t have to concede to the false philosophizing or rationalizations of men.

            And yet somehow you’ve overlooked the 45,000 Christian denominations. Isn’t there some falsity in there somewhere?

            God never places a burden of proof on Christians as He has already supplied the proof for everyone.

            No—you’re thinking of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. He’s the one who has supplied proof. It’s just your stony heart that prevents you from seeing the Truth®.

            including false burdens of philosophical proof.

            I’m also annoyed at philosophical handwaving (I’m thinking of you, Wm. Lane Craig), so maybe we agree on something.

            If God’s proof is not sufficient for you then that is your personal problem.

            (1) God provided no proof. Neither have you.

            (2) A trillion years from now, when you’re up in heaven chatting with the Son, spare a thought for me writhing in hell. I hope my agony doesn’t dampen your mood any.

            Stop laying your problem on the back of Christians and seek to solve it yourself.

            I’ve been blogging for a decade. That’s my approach to “solving it myself.”

            Have a blessed day!

            After all that, you can imagine what this translates to in my head.

          • Matthew 22:37

            No it doesn’t tie in but I will let you go. One of these days I will kick the posting habit.

          • One of these days I will kick the posting habit.

            Best wishes for success.

          • Matthew 22:37

            I hope you got my last post. Someone just spammed it to remove it.

            Apparently my right to speak freely is to be interfered with.

            But how could you sort truth from error without the ability to think freely and communicate freely.

            Someone on here has a very totalitarian mind and wants to shut me up.

            But God gave teachers to reveal and explain mysteries and revelations didn’t He?

            But if you can’t hear God or refuse to focus on Him then you can’t receive His truth can you?

            Are people suppose to be too afraid of people’s reactions to tell the truth?

          • If God existed and he wanted to be known, he’d be known.

          • Matthew 22:37

            He is known by some but the scriptures say He saves each in his own order.

            You may have caused confusion in your own mind by consulting too many others who never tried to establish truth God’s way.

            I used to dissect Islam, Hinduism, etc. for error to do apologetics and defend the Gospel then I realized it was impeding my understanding of God’s way.

            You have to spend time in the scriptures to have a firm grasp of God’s perspective.
            You can’t let false philosophies and religions split your focus.

            Matthew 22:37 King James Version (KJV)

            37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

            You cannot allow your focus to be split. The Hebrews did in the OT and got pulled into Baal worship and into erecting high places to false gods, etc.

            God said He is a jealous God. That is a protective jealousy. So the world doesn’t mess around with His people and mess them up.

          • So you just presuppose you’re right and sift through the evidence for points that support your presupposition. I’m sure that simplifies life.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Oh still want to criticize, eh?

            Well go right ahead and disbelieve then. No pressure from me or explanations any more.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Maybe you should do a little examination of atheists’psyches for a change, Bob, and stop arguing. Arguments can be loaded with false assumptions.

            Read up on atheism and autism and atheism and Asperger’syndrome.

            Read Romans 1. Everyone knows God exists though some suppress that knowledge.

            Then take a close look at some of the atheists running around on the Net upbraiding theists as if they were their intellectual superiors and should be admired for doing that.

            Many of them look and act rather like Sheldon Cooper on The Big Bang tv series.

            Sheldon isn’t very popular even among his amigos is he?

            Quite a trial that ego of his.

            Go check it out. Christ said to examine yourself, didn’t he?

            Don’t ask me any questions and I don’t want to hear rationalizations or interpretations of the evidence from you.

            If you are a truth seeker look at the brain research being done on atheists.

            I am not responsible for so many atheists bearing a resemblance to Sheldon Cooper, am I?

            No, I just realized it after reading some of the brain study info and comparing it with impressions atheists made on me.

            Go research into the brain evidence. That’s better than an argument according to you but I am not going to argue interpretations with you. Go read what the experts say on the evidence.

            God Bless! Bye.

          • I just realized it after reading some of the brain study info and comparing it with impressions atheists made on me.

            So “atheists are autistic” is now your argument?

            Since you’re liberal with your advice, let me offer some as well: do some research yourself. Listen openly to the atheists’ arguments. Don’t just seek some excuse to avoid them.

            I don’t care if you deconvert; I’m simply looking for you to honestly engage with atheists’ demands for good argument and evidence.

          • Matthew 22:37

            I already did that several years ago for a long time.

            I presented evidence and it was not well received or appreciated by atheists.

            Read the Bible. There is no burden of proof on a theist. That is a worldly contention that comes from philosophy.

            Christians are on a different system from the world entirely. A spiritual path.

            Of course, we use logic in our every day living. Of course, we have many great Christian logicians.

            But why neglect allowing God to give you His foundational education in the scriptures? Why not allow Him to create a better person.

            You can focus on spiritual failure or you can focus on spiritual success.

            Jesus Christ is a Christian’s pattern and he was the greatest spiritual success ever as attested to in the scriptures.

            Other religions’ founders don’t even come close to matching his golden, peerless character.

            Have a great day!

          • Read the Bible. There is no burden of proof on a theist.

            Read Dianetics. There is no burden of proof on the Scientologist.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Requiring debate lacks perception in my opinion.

            The Age of Enlightenment is a misnomer for the era in which human reason was erroneously exalted as a human idol.

            Any Christian can tell you Jesus was the most enlightened thinker ever witnessed in the world.

            Upon a closer acquaintance with him you can spot a change in yourself and sometimes others.

            Any person can use their mind but can any person be and act like a gentleman.

            I doubt the world even began to understand what being a lady or gentleman truly was before the advent of Jesus Christ.

            Frank Turek on his site Cross Examined has a video that claims believing in Jesus has a civilizing affect on a man.

            I truly believe Turek is onto something.

            One of the proofs of Jesus Christ is in the changed nature of human beings. That some are more socially progressive and better mannered than others does not change the fact that he does have an impact on human behavior unless the individual refuses to submit to him.

            So no need for debate. I already understood some of God’s points to my own satisfaction and some fallible human being who has an inordinate confidence in his own intellect and beliefs is not going to tinker with mine.

            Why submit to a human being in debate when I already surrendered completely to God?

            I have nothing to prove through evidence or debate or anything else to someone who is not in the know.

            I only have something to prove to God.

            If you can’t perceive the difference between a silk purse and a sow’s ear debating won’t improve your perception/discernment.

            For me human behavior provides more evidence for me than just about any other thing except the bible.

            What provides evidence for a person could be different for everyone.

            Atheists seem to use science as a bar against God’s enlightenment. They could have used their own minds but for some reason didn’t want to and opted for the dark by substituting the scientific method for the observational and reasoning power of their own minds.

            I no longer debate because I have confidence in my own mind and human observational ability and your debate answers are not good enough to undermine that confidence.

            I hope you see the light some day. Reason is not the light. It is just one of the tools through which we access the light. We can block or blunt that tool if we want to or perhaps blunt it through ignorance not knowing we even did it.

            Have a blessed day!

            My mind already possesses clarity on the existence of God question so why let people think they can muddy it with a debate?

          • So no need for debate. I already understood some of God’s points to my own satisfaction and some fallible human being who has an inordinate confidence in his own intellect and beliefs is not going to tinker with mine.

            Looks like you’re inside your bubble, protected from any evidence that makes you sad. Good for you, I guess.

            Have a blessed day!

            You can imagine what it sounds like you’re saying.

          • Matthew 22:37

            I say that to everyone. Blessings not curses are suppose to be coming out of my mouth cf. The Book of james.

            Seriously, I’m not good at science so it is not persuasive.

            I am a people person.

            Some people read other people like a book y’ know. It’s a skill.

            Others can’t read people at all. I guess a lot of those people feel they have to submit to science because of a lack of confidence in their own perception.

            But a good part of the people in this world are not science geeks.

            Why let someone else’s preferred methodology prevent you from understanding God’s point of view in your own way?

            I never learned the scientific method. It wasn’t on my school track.

            World history and the observation of people’s actions is enough to establish the existence of sin.

            Jesus reigns transcendent over sin. All I have to do is acknowledge him as per Romans 10:9 and he gives me an earnest deposit of the spirit and helps me to become an overcomer. It’s all him working through me. He regarded my helpless broken down sinful estate and I traded in the old broken down life for a better new one.

            Why do people make theology harder than it is? When you could dedicate yourself to trusting God and seeing His perspective. His intentions are all good. People have all the interpretive problems.

            Have a nice day!

          • Matthew 22:37

            Bob, please read 1 Corinthians 2 and Romans 9.

            The natural man cannot comprehend the things of God.

            I urge you to pray in the will of God for the gift of faith and the gift of repentance.

            Give God a chance to prove Himself to you through these gifts.

            The Word of God really does teach people how to approach Him and have access to Him.

            Derek Prince who was an atheist at one time and companion of Wittgenstein speaks of how he found his way to believing by reading the Bible. He describes his conversion experience in his book Gifts of the Spirit in one of the later chapters.

            I hope this helps. Why seek material proof when you can seek to know God Himself and at the same time build a relationship with Him? God is spirit though some say He is a spirit person.

            Christians study under or along with spiritual people because those are the only people comprehending God’s nature and Word.

            1 Cor. 2:14, NASB
            14 But [f]a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually [g]appraised.

            Have a blessed day!

          • Matthew 22:37

            Bob, we are born into sin.

            The difference between a Christian and non-Christian is that he will let God do something to correct the internal error in himself into which he was born and refuses to allow the world and misguided people to keep aggravating and increasing him in this internal error.

            If you don’t oppose sin and allow Jesus to go to work in the human soul then sin reins unopposed in the human soul and life allowing for devastating consequences to occur.

            Why would you want to win an argument validating your sinful estate and ego interrupting God’s re-creative process in your soul?

            God loves you, you know. Better to start trusting Him. Jesus calms the waters in the human soul by the spirit, doesn’t he, then he changes a person a little each day.

            Some people change more easily than others. Some are stubborn and resist change to serve their old slave master sin.

            Why would I want to argue all the time against God when God can make a new person out of me? The more I surrender to Him and go along with Him the more agreement I come into with Him.

            Obviously the world always needs changing so why wouldn’t a person allow God to go to work on themselves and let the change begin with them.

            I keep running into a lot of stubborn New Atheists online. They seem to suffer from personality disorders and exhibit a lot of pride and sometimes a cruel streak.

            Why would I want to be prideful and cruel?

            Wouldn’t it be better if God could lessen or eradicate that in me and the human race?

            Our thoughtlives and continuous conflict can keep our own souls disrupted and out of harmony with God.

            I like being in harmony with Him.

            Meditate along with some music today and have a blessed day, my friend!

            Ancient Words
            https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3vmTkXNpwzs&index=1&list=RD3vmTkXNpwzs

            Thou Be My Vision
            https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jIMhshpf0Y4

            It is well
            https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AHe_qmo3gX4

          • Matthew 22:37

            I recommend you read this book, Bob. It corrects the flawed free will doctrine.

            Dr. Jones accepts donations for his books but will let you read them for free because he is big hearted plus he considers them to be derivative works.

            Creation’s Jubilee, Dr. Stephen E. Jones
            https://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.net/teachings/books/creations-jubilee/

          • Matthew 22:37

            “Scientific Proof Is A Myth”, Ethan Siegel on Forbes dot com

            https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2017/11/22/scientific-proof-is-a-myth/#688ef2972fb1

            Einstein said:

            The scientific theorist is not to be envied. For Nature, or more precisely experiment, is an inexorable and not very friendly judge of his work. It never says “Yes” to a theory. In the most favorable cases it says “Maybe,” and in the great majority of cases simply “No.” If an experiment agrees with a theory it means for the latter “Maybe,” and if it does not agree it means “No.” Probably every theory will someday experience its “No”—most theories, soon after conception.

          • Right–no scientist claims that a scientific theory is proof. Everything within science is provisional.

            But doesn’t everyone know this already?

          • Matthew 22:37

            With my weak knowledge of science I still thought it strange for anyone to claim to need evidence for believing in God because science is never really constant. It is always changing which makes over relying on evidence as an unstable method for ascertaining the existence of God in my opinion. Some people start to believe in God using other disciplines than science, too.

            It could be God never meant for anyone to use such an impersonal way to come to an understanding about Him.

            Christianity is very unique. In my opinion it correllates too closely to human nature and history for it not to be true.

            That’s why perspective is so important. If you approach spiritual questions in the wrong way then I think you can block yourself from seeing God’s perspective.

            Are you aware that some apologists and philosophers contest that theists have a burden of proof. The criticism of atheism link on wikipedia explains that this presumption of the burden of proof on theists only started about 40 years ago with Anthony Flew.

            People like Kenny say there are burdens on both atheism and theism because only agnosticism says it does not know and the burden may be greater on the atheist to prove the burden of proof.

            But theologically I believe Christians based on what God tells us about philosophy have no burden of proof at all because God is the Revealer of Truth and has already proved everything.

            Philosophy sows a lot of bad ideas in people’s heads.

            Hitler combined Darwinism and Nietzsche’s superman ideas with I believe his own streak of narcissism or god complex and came up with Aryanism. People like to claim off a superficial review of his background that he was a Catholic but Aryanism is exclusive and that is not compatible with Christian evangelicalism which is inclusive. Essentially Hitler’s regime was one of the 20th century regimes that incorporated Darwinian ideas into it’s militarism. He wasn’t the first to do that though. Some colonial militarists did it even earlier. Plus Marx based his idea of a class struggle on Darwinism.

          • With my weak knowledge of science

            Thanks for your humility.

            I still thought it strange for anyone to claim to need evidence for believing in God because science is never really constant.

            Science has no proof, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have evidence! Consider the science that enables our electronic conversation.

            Science delivers. Science tells us things about reality. Religion has taught us nothing about reality.

            It is always changing which makes over relying on evidence as an unstable method for ascertaining the existence of God in my opinion.

            OK, then don’t rely on science for your belief in God. I need evidence for my beliefs.

            It could be God never meant for anyone to use such an impersonal way to come to an understanding about Him.

            It could be that God doesn’t exist.

            In my opinion it correllates too closely to human nature and history for it not to be true.

            And I find an extremely poor fit. My blog posts touch on some of these problems.

            Are you aware that some apologists and philosophers contest that theists have a burden of proof.

            Ridiculous, right? They’re busy denying any burden of proof, but in so doing, they’re dismissing the opportunity to make a case for God.

            Kinda shooting themselves in the foot, I think.

            The criticism of atheism link on wikipedia explains that this presumption of the burden of proof on theists only started about 40 years ago with Anthony Flew.

            Nope. The person making the remarkable claim (for example, “God exists”) has the burden of proof.

            If you disagree, then I’ll say, “Leprechauns exist. You disagree? That’s your problem; prove me wrong.”

            But theologically I believe Christians based on what God tells us about philosophy have no burden of proof at all because God is the Revealer of Truth and has already proved everything.

            And yet most Christians admit to doubt and most people on earth think that Christianity is nonsense. No, God hasn’t provided sufficient evidence.

            Hitler combined Darwinism and Nietzsche’s superman ideas with I believe his own streak of narcissism or god complex and came up with Aryanism.

            Evolution is science. Whatever Hitler came up with was policy—two very different things. No, you don’t get to blame evolution for Hitler’s policies.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Well let’s agree to disagree then Bob.

            Two minds with such different understandings may never meet.

            Nice talking to you have a blessed day.

          • Yes, I’m sure we’ll never agree. You should consider the points I raise, however, to see if your approach can be improved.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Maybe. Learning is a complex thing.

            But I will never defect from my spiritual worldview given to me by God.

            All people have a carnal worldview but Christians have a dual worldview. We see things both carnally and spiritually and can compare.

            I am convinced a spiritual worldview promotes a more socially intelligent person that’s one reason why you always hang on to Jesus, God’s Word and teachings.

            Certain atheists like Voltaire seem to agree with me on that.

            Doestoevsky who was not an atheist agreed also. He said without God all things are permitted and if you look at what the atheist communists did he was right. I just watched a historical series on Trotsky and Trotsky said it was ok to wipe out 70 to 80 million people in Russia alone in service to his Marxist idea of changing the world through worldwide revolution. Where was his social intelligence? What made him think he could play God with other people’s lives?

            I hope some of this makes sense to you because when you argue against a person trying to deny there is a God then in some sense you are acting like you think you are god.

            Why interfere with another person’s morality, social intelligence, relationships, identity, destiny, life and future if you don’t have all the answers?

            But Trotsky did interfere and a lot of people died from his interfering attempt to play God and change the world based on his own ideas and partially learned ones from Marx. He believed in atheistic Marxism but he didn’t know exactly what world would rise from the ashes of world revolution (he just projected his own illusion authoritatively onto the world) but he was willing to kill anybody that got in his way. But the USSR and China have not produced anything better than the Christian free world has. Some would say they experienced worse.

            I believe God gives us enough answers to get to the next level if we will trust Him.

            Unfortunately, some people believe lies and never do.

            One of the reasons why I could never change over to unbelief is that I pegged Christians as the more socially intelligent group a long time ago. Just like Voltaire and Doestoevsky and Ben Franklin and a lot of people do and I certainly would not let an over commitment to science which has no authority over the metaphysical devolve my social intelligence.

            Have a great day!

          • But I will never defect from my spiritual worldview given to me by God.

            You’re admitting that you hold your belief for some other reason than that it’s the one the evidence points to.

            I hope some of this makes sense to you because when you argue against a person trying to deny there is a God then in some sense you are acting like you think you are god.

            As I’ve mentioned, the only god-like acts done in our world are indeed done by humans. Stories from superstition or religion don’t count.

            Why bring up Marxism? Irrelevant. I’m not a Marxist. The Soviet Union killed lots of people, but that wasn’t following the dictates of the philosophy of atheism because there isn’t one.

            the USSR and China have not produced anything better than the Christian free world has.

            The West has done some great things, but that’s built on a secular constitution. The Bible was pretty much irrelevant.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Yeah, but atheism may open people up to bad ideas and if it does in conjunction with a personality disorder or a mental health issue it could encourage people to start to invent false ideologies to change the world.

            Not everyone is equally discerning about ideas or psychoanalyzes himself.

            Some people with superiority complexes are over compensating for an inferiority complex and could be trying to validate themselves at the expense of other people.

            I am convinced the God of the Bible teaches us to respect interpersonal boundaries between people.

            People have always had struggles against their passions and temptations to do what is right. That is sin and Satan is the old slave master of sin. Both individuals and other people pay when a person is unable to master himself.

            It almost seems like a divine act of providence that Paul started with the Greeks who were considering the passions and trying to understand the nature of man. They had the Stoics, for example.

            The Pergamum Altar mentioned in the Book of Revelation is called Satan’s altar. That altar was transferred from Turkey to Germany in the early 1900s. They have pictures of Hitler making speeches in front of it in Nuremberg. That altar was dedicated to Zeus so is Zeus an alias for Satan?

            The abomination of desolation that occurred in the temple in ancient Israel is connected to Zeus worship.

            There are a lot of false gods in this world and some bring out the worst behavior in people.

            So the Bibles makes it clear you can be a slave to Jesus a just master or a slave to sin.

            Where does sin rule? In human nature unless something is done about it.

            Some people are more obedient than others and if they believe God then He can build a better nature in them. All the attributes of the Fruit of the Spirit are people’s more noble attributes that can be very hard to achieve.

            Why would I have a personality type that disposes me towards spirituality and counseling tendencies if I wasn’t born with it?

            pud tries to control theists claiming everyone is born atheist but neuroscientist Justin Barrett in his book Born Believers says there are born believers and I feel sure I am one of them.

            Why would I let someone I don’t know on the Net meddle with my inborn nature? Why let anyone but God correct your inborn nature?

            It is quite possible some people have been built to serve different purposes for God in this world but why let that purpose override your spiritual identity and being?

            Many of God’s people serve in different functions for Him and isn’t that in part according to the personality or nature that He implants in them. We all come from a seed and an egg.

            If somebody, say the devil or the world tampered with your internal programming so you cannot socially evolve then why should I submit to it, too?

            I believe the devil can use our intelligence and nature against us so sometimes it is better to simply obey God with no questions asked.

            I watched Trotsky allowing himself to be overcome by his passions in that Nerflix series. He had met the love of his life but still gave into his passions without regard for her. If he had been a Christian he might not have done that or at least not so flagrantly. Some men can say no or keep their minds on their wives when other women throw themselves at them. Not so Trotsky. He had an intellect but he let his out of control passions rule him like an animal. How do you maintain good social relationships acting like an animal?

            We will either let God through our developing spiritual nature rule us or let the devil and our animal nature rule us. We all have moral decisions to make everyday and going in one direction makes us stronger while the other makes us morally weaker.

          • atheism may open people up to bad ideas and if it does in conjunction with a personality disorder or a mental health issue it could encourage people to start to invent false ideologies to change the world.

            Huh?? Yes, mental illness is a problem, but what does that have to do with atheism. Atheism is an attempt to understand reality.

            I am convinced the God of the Bible teaches us to respect interpersonal boundaries between people.

            The Bible has counterexamples. This is you applying your personal worldview onto the Bible.

            That is sin and Satan is the old slave master of sin.

            Read Job 1 to see what Satan started as.

            Why would I have a personality type that disposes me towards spirituality and counseling tendencies if I wasn’t born with it.

            Yes, I’m sure personality has something to do with your belief, but what’s your point?

            Why would I let someone I don’t know on the Net meddle with my inborn nature?

            Ask an ex-Christian who’s now happy as an atheist.

            Why let anyone but God correct your inborn nature?

            Uh, because “God” is pretend, and you’ll be happier if your worldview is more aligned with reality? Or is this a trick question?

            If he had been a Christian he might not have done that or at least not so flagrantly.

            Yeah, as if Christians don’t do nutty things. Let’s talk about Jim Jones or David Koresh next time.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Jim Jones was an atheist.

          • Or not. Rev. Jim Jones looks pretty Christian to me. He was ordained by both Assemblies of God and the Disciples of Christ.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rev._Jim_Jones,_1977.jpg

          • Matthew 22:37

            Do a deeper background check.

            Quote:

            Jim Jones was a dedicated communist from the outset. While he initially founded his group as a a liberal offshoot of the Methodist denomination, in his own biographical record he admitted that he did not really believe in religion, he saw it as a tool to disingenuously use to further his Marxist goals. By 1976 he was open about his atheism while still styling himself as a “reverend” and his organization as a “church”. In 1977 his wife explained to the New York Times that “Jim used religion to try to get some people out of the opiate of religion.” – end quote

            They have some of his atheist quotes and his wife’s telling us he was an atheist on the Net.

            Quote from: Don’t Drink the Kool-aid: Jonestown was an Atheist Marxist Socialist Cult
            on the weblog of L. Max Wilson.

            Labels are deceptive. Anybody can claim any label but what do his words and deeds actually show.

            I used to argue with people about Hitler being a Christian because his family was Catholic but he certainly never acted like a practicing Catholic. In fact, he was surrounded by occultists and dabbled in the occult quite a bit.

            But Germany was still Christian when he came to power so he would need a Christian front to gain popular support. But if you read some of the discussions about Christianity by the Nazi round table talks available on line they were planning to do away with Christianity eventually. State opposition comes from the religious quarter a good bit of the time and Hitler was like Stalin. He didn’t disagree with his opponents. He annihilated them. Remember Gandhi in India leading pacifism in India against the Christianized British. Gandhi after being jailed a few times actually won. Hitler would have never let him get that far. Pacifism would never work against the Nazis.

            I found out about Hitler from reading up on him and watching documentaries about him and his closest associates. Mein Kampf is dedicated to known occultist Dietrich Eckhardt.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Look Bob I want you to see this post of mine. Then read my profile of posts. I am under spiritual attack right now by people trying to silence the gift of exhortation in me.

            Exhortation is a gift given to people by God when they are filled with the Spirit.

            But all these people denying God exists prefer to argue against His existence instead of seeking and experiencing His presence and perfect peace in themselves.

            How can someone bring a knowledge of God to someone who plans on spiritually attacking him.

            The attackers are going to have to seek and surrender to God first so they can get their hearts right with Him. Then won’t the Holy Spirit feed them through God’s Word.

            You have to change sides and let God build a whole new nature in you. He is the Revealer of Truth and will reveal more and more things to you as time goes by if you can maintain a good relationship with Him but there are many things in this world and sometimes in ourselves trying to upset that relationship.

            Seeking not arguing is how you experience God’s presence. That is God’s method. Not the scientific method.

            God is personal so you have to seek Him out like a Person to know Him.

            Have a blessed day! I am sorry there are so many people wishing to mess up your enlightenment in this world but people that fail at relationships themselves sometimes give bad counsel and like to meddle.

            Seek out the people with the best relationships with God, Bob, and learn from them. Otherwise you are surfing other people’s issues along with your own. That is not productive to a good foundational understanding of God and His Word.

            Peace Be With You!

            Here is the post:

            2 hours ago
            Detected as spam Thanks, we’ll work on getting this corrected.
            Nevemind, Pastor. I found this on your other site:
            Top 10 Bible Verses About Seeking God
            https://www.whatchristiansw
            I believe a Christian proves God exists to himself when he seeks Him and finds His presence.
            Arguing is the activity of people determined not to seek God.
            If you are determined not to seek God’s presence and establish a relationship then don’t meddle with a Christian who is doing that by demanding evidence.
            Everyone has the ability to seek God on his own. Arguing is a mere distraction from doing that and someone else’s confusion doesn’t have the right to override a believer’s certainty.

            Let the LORD speak to you today in His own words:

            Matthew 6:33 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
            33 But [a]seek first [b]His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be [c]added to you.

            Deuteronomy 4:29 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
            29 But from there you will seek the Lord your God, and you will find Him if you search for Him with all your heart and all your soul.
            Psalm 14:2 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
            2 The Lord has looked down from heaven upon the sons of men
            To see if there are any who [a]understand,
            Who seek after God.

            Seek God with all your being:

            “You, God, are my God, earnestly I seek you; I thirst for you, my whole being longs for you, in a dry and parched land where there is no water” (Psalm 63:1).

            Seek God before He has to get your attention:
            “Whenever God slew them, they would seek him; they eagerly turned to him again” (Psalm 78:34).

            Seek God because He has arranged for you to do so:
            “God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’” (Acts 17:27-28).

            Seek God even when you don’t feel like it:
            “There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God. (Romans 3:10-11)
            Quote:
            We don’t have the capacity to seek after the Lord. Our sin nature, the world, and the devil are always pulling us away from God to seek after our own pleasures. We must resist the urges to only think of ourselves and to stretch our faith to seek God with all our hearts holding nothing back.

            Seek God because He rewards you for it:
            And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. (Hebrews 11:6)

            Seek God so you will know what to do:
            But Jehoshaphat also said to the king of Israel, “First seek the counsel of the Lord.” (1 Kings 22:5)
            The wisdom of God is well beyond the knowledge of man. When we are in a place of needing direction and insight for life’s problems, we can seek after God’s counsel to receive wisdom, knowledge, and insight for our next steps. He knows the beginning and end; therefore we can’t go wrong with His guidance.

          • I am under spiritual attack right now by people trying to silence the gift of exhortation in me.

            Spiritual attack? By what—demons?

            Exhortation is a gift given to people by God when they are filled with the Spirit.

            What is exhortation in this context? Being convincing? I haven’t found you very convincing, I’m afraid.

            But all these people denying God exists prefer to argue against His existence instead of seeking and experiencing His presence and perfect peace in themselves.

            You need to drop the false god Yahweh and experience the perfect peace from Quetzalcoatl.

            Seeking not arguing is how you experience God’s presence. That is God’s method. Not the scientific method.

            We’ve learned nothing about reality from religion. From science, we’ve learned quite a bit. I’ll stick with the one with the track record.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Just got banned on another non-religious blog for telling the truth, Bob.

            It is really too bad so many people let sin rule their thoughtlives so they cannot even understand God’s perspective after a while.

          • Just got banned on another non-religious blog for telling the truth

            For telling the truth? Did the moderator tell you that? I doubt that’s the reason.

          • MR

            I wonder what drives people to manufacture imagined persecution.

          • “Because Jeebus tells me so.”

            Jesus promised persecution, so if they aren’t getting it for real, they need to invent it. And then they’re happy. Or something.

          • MR

            It’s kind of true. It seems like a badge of honor or something. Grandma M used to be pretty levelheaded, but even she later in life would repeat these “breathless stories” as I call them. Grandma, you really need to get out more.

          • Hi Bob,

            That Matthew 22 is a classic example of a Christian who thinks that she is being persecuted. She avoids answering any direct questions relating to asking for evidence for her beliefs in god and then gives a long spiel about her beliefs. She continually assumes that her god exists, that her god has revealed himself in Jesus Christ and that the bible is the Word of God but she fails to see that she is engaging in circular reasoning. She cannot answer the questions asked of her because she has been asked hundreds of times and dodges the issues every time that she is asked. Then she says that she puts someone on block and says that she is not arguing with them but continues to pontificate her views as if they are god’s views (if god exists). Then if she is failing to get through with her idiotic ideas, she claims that she is being persecuted for following Jesus. No-one is persecuting her so, as you say, she invents it. She seems to take any disagreement with her “infallible” views as persecution.

          • Thanks for the background. It’s a little surprising to see such beliefs combined with such determination.

            I’ve tried to explain that her assuming the Christian viewpoint is as illogical as just assuming any other religious worldview. I don’t know if her rejection is willful ignorance or the regular kind.

          • Did you get banned for presenting your views consistently in an obnoxious manner by giving off an air of oracular certainty and projecting your ideas as infallible? Or did you get banned for failing to dialogue in a reasonable manner with the other participants, for failing to answer any questions asked of you, but continuing to project your ideas as a Protestant pope? Did you rave on with long answers presenting what you consider to be “the Truth” but without offering any evidence or any reasons for your beliefs, except perhaps to engage in circular reasoning (which is not evidence)?

          • It is really too bad so many people let sin rule their thoughlives so they cannot even understand God’s perspective after a while.”

            Well if God’s perspective is found in the bible which you regard as the “infallible” and “inerrant” Word of God in the (now missing) original manuscripts, how is it that today there are over 40,000 denominations in the world and the number of these denominations are on the rise? Isn’t there a lot of confusion in the churches, so what makes you think that you (and those who agree with you) understand the Word of God?

            There are many biblical scholars who disagree with you and your views There are many theologians who disagree with you and with each other and why are there so many Christian apologists desperately trying to defend the indefensible? It seems that these people (who are supposedly listening to the leading of the Holy Spirit) cannot agree on what the bible means.

            What makes you think that you (and only those who agree with your views) are the one’s listening to the Holy Spirit? Couldn’t you be wrong? If there is no god, then you are certainly wrong and are not speaking the truth, but falsehoods. If parts of the bible (e.g. Joshua, Judges, 1 & 2 Samuel, 1 & 2 Kings, 1 & 2 Chronicles (in the OT) and the book of Revelation (in the NT) were written by bloodthirsty, very violent, barbaric and very ignorant savages, who created god in their own likeness, wouldn’t you expect the bible to picture its god as a barbaric savage? Why do you dodge passages like 1 Samuel ch. 15 where Yahweh commands Israel to commit genocide. It doesn’t matter how wicked these people were, how can there be any justification for murdering little children and babies? The bible is a plainly immoral book which you like to project as moral and infallible. The bible is replete with immorality. Stop dodging the texts of terror and violence that are clearly embedded in the bible!

          • Matthew 22:37

            I hope you are reading my posts from the last two days, Bob.

            What if Satan is trying to block you from receiving revelation from God through some people who are miscontented and have dedicated themselves to opposing God.

            I was banned from an atheist blog for telling the truth just yesterday and my evidence posts were deleted the day before that.

            Some Christians don’t debate but exhort.

            I gave up human debate in favor of the spiritual gift of exhortation several years ago and decided to get ordained in 2015.

            I don’t have my own church yet. But I do engage in ministering the truth as much as possible.

            Because among other things the Gospel was given to help them be reborn spiritually and have the mind of Christ.

            I believe atheism is just a label for the people having the toughest time getting born again.

            Once you start to see things from God’s perspective then you see that the statement above is a true statement.

            There are a lot of atheists that convert to theism for all sorts of reasons.

            Everyone reasons a little differently and everyone seems to be designed by God to serve a different purpose.

            I found that debate is a shortcut that may be detrimental to people receiving enlightenment.

            God said to seek and study to obtain knowledge of Him.

            But the world likes to return to the law of the jungle and insist that people debate as if arguing were superior to knowing theology which is the study of God and His nature.

            This world likes to con people out of understanding God and receiving their spiritual births from Christ.

            Christians attach and are changed in their natures.

            Buddhists just detach to shut themselves off from their passions, don’t they?

            Science teaches detachment, too and also over valuing the objective at the expense of the subjective.

            But a person’s relationship with God is both subjective and objective. In fact, our subjective reality can help yield objective results like charity, worship, etc.

            I hope this helps you understand more.

            God loves everyone all the time. It is His divine nature to do so and His love never fails as the Psalms state.

          • I was banned from an atheist blog for telling the truth.

            Prove it.

            I gave up human debate in favor of the spiritual gift of exhortation several years ago

            What does that mean? Do you think your arguments are compelling?

            I believe atheism is just a label for the people having the toughest time getting born again.

            I believe atheists have no good reasons for accepting your nutty claims.

            I hope this helps you understand more.

            I don’t think it’s me who has the problem understanding.

          • Matthew 22:37

            I can prove the ban.

            Look at my posts in my profile showing removed.

            Then Clancy followed me from the blog I was banned on onto the Christian Crier blog.

            Banning is a form of persecution and you banned me a few years back to deny me freedom of speech.

            But that’s ok. Once I have made a full recovery I may seek a more public job in which to serve God.

            God taught me perseverance. Get up when the world tries to knock you down or succeeds in knocking you down.

            The devil teaches people to stay down and not get upright.

            Sorry for the block the other day but people need to really stop and think what it means to let the devil cut them off from God.

            People have wills and minds they can exert against the devil unless they have been deceived into compliance with him.

            What if Hitler was the devil incarnate or the devil’s spawn? Lots of good Germans were deceived into complying with him until it seemed too late to change but Dietrich Bonhoeffeur refused to concede to Hitler and tried to assasinate him. I am not sure I agree with Bonhoeffeur’s method but I do think he spotted a devil who needed to be stopped.

            Meditate on it. God doesn’t mind you rethinking things and changing your mind. A lot of intelligent people do. But the devil might mind.

            Einstein, who loved Jesus btw, said intelligent people can change their minds.

            Peace Be With You!

          • Banning is a form of persecution and you banned me a few years back to deny me freedom of speech.

            1. Why did I ban you? I suspect it was for an excellent reason. The complaints I get at my blog are for letting obnoxious commenters go on for too long.

            2. A blogger denies you no right of free speech when they ban you. Learn some civics.

            Once I have made a full recovery I may seek a more public job in which to serve God.

            Recovery? Are you sick?

          • MR

            Recovery? Are you sick?

            She had told me she had been cured of cancer. I took her at her word, but it sounds like that might have been an exaggeration. I see she’s since bailed. It gets a little sticky when you start talking absolutes: Jesus cured me, atheists banned me for telling the truth, you denied me free speech, you persecuted me…. Once you start painting a picture of lies, it gets uncomfortable once those lies start coming home to roost.

          • Yes, I can see that trend.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Here watch this one. I am defying the devil for you making sure you get better spiritual information so you can make a more informed decision about your soul and potential spiritual birth.

            Defying Hitler: The Story of Dietrich Bonhoeffer
            https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_TSq13VqJLQ

            Have a blessed day!

          • I am defying the devil

            And yet you’re still alive. Makes me think that “defying the devil” isn’t that big a deal.

          • Hi Bob,

            According to Clancy (Captain Cassidy), Matthew 22 was banned after repeatedly violating the comments policy on her blog not to preach religion. Before being banned she was warned, but still continued her preaching under her pretension that she is just writing “the Truth”. Her posts were deleted, but Clancy told me that her comments were similar to the ones Matthew 22 makes on this website. Matthew 22 lied about the reason she was banned or has no comprehension about what it means not to preach. No doubt she would say that she wasn’t preaching but simply exhorting. But her comments are so obnoxious because she gives off an air of oracular certainty which no-one can have.

          • Thanks!

          • Matthew 22:37

            Asking an ex-Christian who is now an atheist and says he is happy wouldn’t tell me much without a psychological profile.

            Stalin was an atheist and like Hitler and Trotsky most likely a narcissist according to Erich Fromm.

            In his article: “Why Did Stalin Triumped Over Trotsky?” Vladimir Moss wrote:
            “’Narcissism’ is a concept originally formulated by Freud in relation to early infancy, but one which is now accepted more broadly to describe a personality disorder in which the natural development of relationships to the external world has failed to take place. In such a state only the person himself, his needs, feelings and thoughts, everything and everybody pertaining to him are experienced as fully real, while everybody and everything else lacks reality or interest.“

            Imagine you could be the victim of someone else’s psychiatric disorder. Hitler experienced child abuse. Stalin’s father was ruthless. Plus there are genetic factors that would tend some people to become narcissistic based on early childhood pressures or life events.

            It might be hard to see God’s perspective and follow Him if your personality was in conflict with His teachings.

            To say atheism is reality is to deny that everyone experiences reality somewhat
            differently.

            And why should someone who hasn’t mastered self control say his reality is better than anyone else’s? Trotsky, Stalin and Hitler were all sociopathic yet insisting on creating a new world order in service to their own ideologies without regard to what it cost others.

          • Matthew 22:37

            I think your hyper focus on evidence is sabotaging you spiritually.

            Evolution may be devolution because now you seek to explain everything in evolutionary terms which makes you think backwards and miss the critical point that God makes in the Bible which is that everybody needs a change of heart.

            When you start to override the subjective with the objective to deny it’s claims on you then you blocked yourself off from God and His revelation and after a while He will let you go.

            It says He can turn you over to a depraved mind.

            What is needed is a complete change of heart/human nature. Making excuses for current nature because you think animal nature justifies moral failures is weak.

            Having weak ethics just makes a human being weaker and puts him into more danger from the enemy and the world.

            More hearts like God’s is what the world needs more of.
            https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PmprgCQXR1M

            Don’t argue with me because I exhort people. Arguing just opens the door to let the devil try to rule people’s minds but I made my mind up against him a long time ago.

            Have a blessed day, Bob, and may His grace abound to you!

          • You assume you’re correct before you start. Not a helpful way to make an argument.

            It says He can turn you over to a depraved mind.

            Tell him I said thanks.

          • Matthew 22:37

            I really don’t assume. All of the above was based on my familiarity with God’s ideas (who is all knowing). Along with comparing them to the world, of course.

            What kind of work in the soul would unresisted sin cause in a person over a long period of time?

            God’s Word says to resist the devil and he will flee from you but you have spent a lot of time with your guard down, Bob.

            I hope you get with some legitimate Bible scholars and let them correct your Biblical perspective.

            Why hold a grudge against God that He doesn’t deserve?

            I know you’re a lot smarter than that so re-think things and look for a genuine bible expert to consult. One who has the right character. Because your eisegesis is riddled with error.

            Imagine. You spent your life getting everybody’s perspective right except God’s and God is in a mop up action with the devil.

            The devil was beat on the Cross but he’s still down here on Earth stirring things up trying to deny defeat.

            You can be a slave to Jesus or a slave to sin.

            Most people would rather soldier for Jesus than the devil if given the choice. Why soldier for an unjust master who’s already lost?

            Have a blessed day! I hope you get your heart right with God.

          • God’s all knowing, but you’re not. You begin with the assumption that you’ve correctly concluded that God exists.

          • Matthew 22:37

            I believe belief progresses towards knowledge. The immature believers believe. The mature believers know.

            Besides I was touched by God once and experienced other what I like to think of as God incidents and I have seen God change people and have heard several changed
            people’s testimonies in person and the mind is a judging instrument capable of judging testimony unless a person isn’t perceptive and my personality type is the perceptive type according to Jung.

            So no I am not looney. The only time I came close to hallucinating in my life I had a sinus infection and the dreams had nothing to do with God. They were pain inspired and I don’t even recall what they were now.

            People have a pineal gland. I’d like to research it more if possible. Maybe you could research it for evidence.

            Of course, you can read Leaf’s neuroscientist research and conclusions in her book Switch on the Brain.

            Or Curt Thompson, M.D.’s Anatomy of the Soul on infant attachment.

            Or M. Scott Peck’s Glimpse of the Devil.

            Why would sin work the same way in people? People are all troubled by different sins.

            Think about it. Use your God given mind. The noble Bereans checked everything against the scriptures.

            Why not compare the world and people against them?

            God Bless!

          • Matthew 22:37

            WHY DID JESUS TEACH IN PARABLES?
            ALFRED EDERSHEIM
            Compared to His earlier teaching during the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus’s turn to parables might seem odd. He’d used clear instruction to teach His followers how to live and about the Kingdom of God, and He’d exhibited the Kingdom in a tangible way through His miracles. But suddenly, when the crowds come to hear Him, He hops into a boat and speaks in parables, stories about sowing seeds and gathering wheat (Matthew 13).
            When the disciples ask Him why, since they obviously noticed the change, His answer may seem even more astonishing: “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but to them it has not been granted” (Matthew 13:11). In other words, the parables are meant to divide the crowd. While this may seem as if Jesus denied some people access, the difference He means is not in the message—but in the response.
            The parables themselves present clear stories from everyday events that many in the crowd would recognize. Jesus did not code His teaching to prevent some people from understanding, since all equally would understand the imagery. All those gathered there certainly comprehended the aspects of the stories related to their everyday lives. Instead, His teaching divided the listeners into two groups based on their own responses.
            His miracles had attracted many, and others had perhaps been astonished by His earlier teaching. But the parables themselves, just as in the story of the seed falling on various places (Matthew 13:3-9), revealed the true nature of their responses and their real decisions. Those committed to the Kingdom of God would seek and find further understanding. But those uncommitted—perhaps listening only because of the initial excitement—would reject the teaching as unintelligible.
            Adapted from The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah by Alfred Edersheim (Book III, Chapter XXIII).

          • Matthew 22:37

            Read John 12 verses 27 thru 50.

            If you refuse to get your heart right with God wouldn’t that affect interpretation.

            Why are there so many non-Christian religions and so many unbelievers and so many Christians who don’t act like Christians? Did all these people get their hearts right with God or neglect or refuse to do that? The Pharisees refused to acknowledge Jesus in their midst while he was doing miracles. They chose to let spiritual darkness prevail. There could be unrepentant Christians in Christian churches.

            How could you interpret the scriptures accurately if you don’t trust God and let spiritual blindness prevail?

            Google “spiritual blindness” on openbible dot com and read those verses.

            Still some unbelievers walk out of blind darkness into the light. I believe they are the ones genuinely motivated to seek God from a good heart motive.

            A bad heart motive would prompt one to spiritual inactivity.

            God is a rewarder of seekers but why does it seem not everyone seeks?

            Maybe because they listen to other people in darkness or spend too much time mocking what they never understood but just labeled as delusional then threw away in the trash can but they still go back to the trash can wondering if they made a mistake.

            God loves everyone. He lets the rain fall on the evil and the good
            and Jesus died on the Cross so people could be born again. See John 3 on it so why do people allow the people in the dark to interfere with their spiritual births?

            At some point you have to become an independent thinker and stop letting other people and their false authorities control your mind. Though an enlightened spiritual thinker or teacher might be helpful if they know the scriptures and are morally upright.

            That is the usual way to an original experience and relationship with God.

            Why let the inexperienced people in the dark control your life experiences?

            Your Grace Still Amazes Me!
            https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fXVUYC_ykwE

            Give the glory to God, Bob when He walks you out of the darkness into the light.

            Have a great day!

          • Matthew 22:37

            Bob, if you acknowledge Jesus then he forgives your sin.

            The devil does not want you acknowledging Jesus though because if you do then Jesus kicks him out of your thoughtlife.

            Satan is the strong man in the Bible. Jesus is the stronger man.

            God gave Jesus and the Bible to set you free of sin and to keep the devil out.

            Either God or the devil own you. There is no middle ground or fence sitting.

            Jesus said you are with him or against him.

            Now who is going to wreak more havoc in a human heart? God or Satan?

            Some people accepted Satan unknowingly by rejecting Jesus so they are turned over to a depraved mind.

            Your mind, body, soul, spirit and will have to side in this world either with God or against Him.

            You have to will yourself to cooperate and obey God to be saved.

            But this world likes to teach people the wrong ideas so they won’t trust God but that just keeps them the sinful slaves of their flesh, the world and Satan.

            Spirituality is central to Maslow’s pyramid because spirituality is integrative and functional. Disbelief is disintegrative and dysfunctional.

            Think about it, Bob. An intelligent person can be just as influenced by evil ideas as he is by good ones. Trotsky and Lenin proved that following Marx’s evil ideas. The Germans did, too, following Aryanism.

            You have to be an independent thinker to determine God’s true messages to this world.

            But the evil world likes to throw out God’s messages and kill God’s messengers because if they do that then they don’t have to obey God and act morally they get to pick and choose at their own and other people’s expense.

            I bet most guys who cheat on their never intended to bring HIV home to them.

            But sin has consequences.

            By using science and logic to oppose God all you do is stay dysfunctional.

            A functional person will serve God. No questions asked sometimes. Why do you have to second guess an all knowing Holy Being who only intends the best for you?

            Questions are not always intelligent if you ask a bad source but they will delay or prevent you from dealing with yourself and getting your act together.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Bob, I think your whole approach to God is wrong. I think you should dismantle your blog and become an even more serious seeker.

            I think you have been seeking your whole life but you are not getting the right results because your heart is not right with God plus you have a substandard education in the scriptures.

            I regret that I never learned the ancient languages because if I did my knowledge of God’s perspective would be even better. Gleaned first hand instead of secondhand through translators and bible scholars and teachers. Then I would be the Bible scholar. An even better student than I am.

            Knowing the Bible requires lifelong learning.

            You will never understand it if your heart is not right with God and you are not seeking to understand everything you can. I have been studying under several bible teachers with encyclopedic knowledge of the Bible and it is obvious that they were outstanding seekers and their reward was a knowledge of and relationship with God through Jesus Christ.

            I may go back to school for either Hebrew or Greek. Probably Hebrew as it is God’s language.

            I think you should do the same. Get your heart right with God and start seriously thinking so you can start getting the good results and relationship while you still have time.

            Imagine the number of biblical contradictions that might resolve in your mind with a better education. Your problem might be that you never dedicated enough time to seeing God’s position because you are too busy disputing it because of these unresolved contradictions.

            Draw near to God and He will draw nearer to you.

            Have a blessed day. David (which means beloved) was a man after God’s own heart but he still had to go to God in repentance and get a new clean heart from Him after the Bathsheba incident. Cf. Psalm 51.

            From gotquestions dot org on why David was a man after God’s own heart:

            In the book of Acts, the apostle Paul speaks of God’s feelings about King David: “After removing Saul, he made David their king. He testified concerning him: ‘I have found David son of Jesse, a man after my own heart; he will do everything I want him to do’”

            Bob, you are the temple of God. You need to seriously dedicate yourself to God to receive His wisdom and knowledge and best of all the relationship.
            Temples are always dedicated to something. Don’t stay undedicated or the devil will try to rule you through sin.

            You are too smart a man to let the devil rule you through confusion.

            So follow Jesus and learn from him like a true disciple. Jesus and his disciples all knew Hebrew and the scriptures. They had a working knowledge and relationship with God, too.

            May His grace abound to you.

          • I follow the evidence, and it doesn’t lead me to God. No, I’m not going to presuppose God.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Bob, you be careful. You are holed up on your blog every day with a lot of people reinforcing your confirmation bias which could be reinforcing the devil’s intent to keep you spiritually blind.

            Your mind is washed by the water of the Word. But unbelievers seem to suffer from serious comprehension problems about God’s Word.

            Somethings in the spiritual world could defy human logic that’s why you need Jesus as your protector.

            You can throw your own mind and will in whichever direction you want.

            I personally despise evil. I always have. It makes it easy for me to side with the guy wearing the white hat or riding the white horse.

          • Imagine a caring person from Scientology or Mormonism or some other religion saying the equivalent thing to you. Would you accept their claims?

          • Matthew 22:37

            I am too well trained in the scriptures to accept Scientology or Mormonism. I really know little about them though except Joseph Smith was a freemason claiming angelic revelation in contradiction to Galatians 1.

            But more importantly I have the good sense to really love and respect God.

            The perspective God presents in the Bible closely aligns to what is actually happening on this Earth especially if you study people and history.

            Why people are looking for contradictions I don’t know. But there are people out there that resolve these contradictions that people claim and write about their resolution. You can google on some of these contradictions and find the resolutions. I used to have a book where a bible scholar showed how to resolve a famous contradiction.

            Satan is the author of confusion and can stir up division but God can divide people, too.

            Just like God can blind people and so can Satan. Dr. Stephen E. Jones has a very informative book on this called “Blindness in Part.”

            You can also block hearing from God with heart idols.

            Idol creation still goes on a lot today in people’s hearts.

            Really. The God of the Bible is the expert on sin and the human heart. Nobody else comes as close.

            I wish I had the link to Christianity versus Modern Psychology for you to see the comparison. It used to be on Gospel dot org with green graphics but it does not seem to be on the Net any more.

            I am a big student of the Bible. It is the easiest way to learn about God and gain wisdom and it is His recommended way. Debating is something people default to who didn’t accept and follow God’s recommendation.

          • I am too well trained in the scriptures to accept Scientology or Mormonism

            You mean that you’re too set in your ways.

          • Matthew 22:37

            If I am set in the right way with the best attitude and motivation then why change?

            Who’s mold is better than Jesus’ pattern?

            I like myself more than I did as a child.

            So why are you debating trying to remove God’s protection off of people and the sense of purpose and direction that he gives them?

            You don’t have the right to condemn someone as a less critical thinker than yourself so you can control their identity.

            Do you have any idea of the number of screwed up people there are in this world from over authoritarian controlling parents?

            Heart motive is so important in this life. That is why David asked God for a whole new heart.

          • Matthew 22:37

            I may take a break from exchanging posts with atheists. I am strong minded and know God exists so I could take the intellectual harassment that comes from unknowing people quite easily.

            But I think I will spend some one on one time with God for a while because really who cares to prove Him with worldly rationalizations once you know for a fact that He exists.

            I don’t have to prove anything to myself because I know he exists. You’re the one determined not to know though.

            I hope you start to think independently and realize there is no greater authority in existence than God.

            He can even give you the mind of Christ with a spiritual worldview on top of the carnal one we are born with.

            Of course, the people not in the know who want to stay ignorantly in the dark will attempt to reclassify a Christian in the know as delusional. Then their ignorance continues to willfully prevail over them and they don’t have to do anything for God at all. Just for themselves.

            Pray for yourself. I am off to hang around someone truly sane for a change, the Most High God.

            Meditation and prayer are good for the soul and the brain.

            Have a blessed day!

          • I am strong minded

            No, you’re closed minded.

            Gee–here you’ve spend about 20 comments, and I’m not convinced. I wonder if it’s your presumption that you’re right that’s the problem. Maybe approach your next atheist with a little humility next time. Maybe it’ll help to remember that most people on this world think that your supernatural beliefs are wrong.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Why would I want to be open to evil ideas and risk retarding my spiritual development and God’s plan for my life.

            Christians pass through spiritual birth. Are developing babies suppose to be open to attack?

            Have a blessed day. Bye.

          • Matthew 22:37

            You may want to read up on Genie Wilder and see what her father and the world did to her.

            I think God’s spiritual parenting methods may be best. More trustworthy than human ones. I also trust Him more than random ideas coming from the world.

            Like that one extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. That one has been disproven by several people that I came across and read on the Internet.

            You just have to be bright enough to seek out the alternate answer.

            Have a good day.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Bob, Christ is our spiritual pattern our spiritual DNA code.

            Why would I let this world over ride and over write my spiritual DNA code and birth with bad ideas?

            If you have the time watch Steve Willoughby’s Downpour Worship
            https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xjc0rae8CK4

            A relationship with God really means something to some people.

            If you let this world disrupt your spiritual identity before it can be formed then Satan is allowed to commit spiritual identity theft.

            Why don’t you identify with Jesus more?

            The world taught you to deny his existence. The world almost never picks on any other religious leader just Jesus. People with their lying counters. Why not Mohammed, why not Buddha. When it is obvious that they did not live the life Jesus did or have a dual identity as Son of God and Son of Man.

            Keep letting the devil commit the crime of spiritual identity theft against you, Bob.

            The devil can only own you if you let him control your thoughtlife so he manipulates you through sin and worldly ideas into surrendering your mind to him instead of to God when God would make a whole new man out of you.

            I hope this direct truth helps you to understand God’s perspective. You are loved by God, Bob, but you keep letting the devil fool you into rejecting that truth. Look at all the intellectual gifts God gave you but you use them against establishing a relationship with Him.

            Repent so you can start over and get the relationship going, Bob while there is still time for God to build a spiritual identity in you.

            Have a blessed day! I know God exists. Give the glory to God. He just sent me into complete remission from near terminal cancer last week.

            Hallelujah! Praise God!

          • Swap Jesus with the other gods, and the argument is just as compelling–that is, not at all.

          • MR

            Swap those suits for sheepskins and you get a glimpse of some primitive religion playing out.

          • An apologetics video is rarely interesting, but at least it’s better than a sermon.

          • MR

            ‘Cept I got that, too. 😉

          • MR

            Wow, that’s creepy. A bunch of grown adults immersed in cult-like indoctrination. It’s interesting to see just how religion foments and preys on the emotional weakness of people. Thanks for sharing.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Well you’re still immersed in sin. Imagine what effect it is having on you.

            And Jim Jones…the Reverend…he was an atheist Marxist FYI.

            So atheists engage in cults, too.

            Ayn Rand was an atheist and had a cult too.

            I would say atheists are not independent critical thinkers on spiritual questions as their minds are still enslaved to sin.

            You could be on science or other carnal topics and questions but not on spiritual questions.

            You couldn’t even tell Jesus Christ apart from the wannabe spiritual leaders.

            That tells me atheist thinking is confused and clouded on spiritual questions.

            So why do you debate and try to control theists when your minds are clouded and confused on spiritual matters?

            Pray to God while there’s still time for Him to correct you.

            Have a blessed day!

          • MR

            So atheists engage in cults, too.

            Too? Interesting. I suppose atheists could engage in some types of cults, cults of personality, of the kind we see with Donald Trump. But no, atheists don’t engage in religious cults like what is on display in this video. Whether Jim Jones was an atheist, I don’t know, but he, like these people preyed on the religious. Since there’s no evidence of “spiritual” things, pretty much everything you say here is gibberish, like the gibberish the man who believed he was speaking in tongues. It’s all very creepy when you’re not wearing Jesus goggles. I’m not interested in controlling theists, but I am concerned about theists controlling things like government with immature superstitions.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Well you can google on Jones. He and his wife admitted that he was an atheist.

            His wife said as a Marxist he believed religion was an opiate like Marx said.

            I don’t know that Trump is a true Christian. Only God knows and will judge him on his words and deeds but he could have a personality disorder.

            The Bible says that you cannot comprehend spiritual things as an unbeliever so why don’t you leave alone what you clearly cannot comprehend.

          • MR

            And Jones duped the religious with religion. That makes it a religious cult. He did the same kinds of things the guys in your video are doing. The only difference is some of those guys believe it, too. Break people down emotionally, the crying, spouting gibberish like it means something, or you, posting a video like it’s some kind of magic spell that is going to somehow change an atheist’s mind. That stuff is not normal behavior. It’s cult-like behavior.

            I don’t know that Trump is a true Christian

            I’m not so worried about Trump as that he has a group of followers primed by their religion in many ways to follow him.

            The Bible says

            And the Harry Potter series says that Harry visited a train station in Heaven. And? Your superstitious beliefs don’t mean anything.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Goodbye. Hating on Christians and blaming us for everything under the sun like atheists like to do is NOT normal.

            Christ said to examine yourself and get the beam out of your own eye.

            I am about to delete this account. I have talked to over 400 atheists at least and you are all stubborn in your sin.

            So full of pride in your intellect too.

            Well pride goeth before a fall and the fool has said in his heart there is no God. Those are God’s Words and they will judge you in the Last Day.

            I am getting some peace and quiet and deleting this account soon so I can fully recover. God saved me from cancer last week. All Glory and Honor to Him. The doctors were counting me out but I never counted God out and now I am in remission.

            Atheists suffer from serious comprehension problems on the Bible and the Bible says carnal men cannot understand the Bible.

            You atheists accurately fill so many observations that God makes you really should be learning to tune the world out and tune into Him.

            Pray to Him on it because you need to learn to cooperate with Him anyway. What are you going to stay chained to the devil without even raising a fight against him in your thoughtlife. Then you are complacent.

            War is enough to tell you there is something seriously wrong with people and that makes God’s claim that we are sinners irrefutable.

            The human race will never make it on it’s own. We need God to fix everything. We are still producing Donald Trumps, Stalins, Hitlers, Pol Pots, etc. today.

            God chooses to work with the individual fixing us from the inside out and YOU want to question His methods.

            Please pray on it and find a good ethical teacher on the Bible. It may be your last chance to get your heart right with God.

          • MR

            Do you see how your religion pushes you to imagine that I’m hating on Christians when I’m simply pointing out they’re mistaken and they’re following people who will harm them and others. Watch your own video again and look at the manipulation. Look how the music makes people emotional and people who are emotional let their guard down. Look at the style of speaking, the lack of reasoning, the no show from God.

            Next time you’re in church, and you’re singing, think about how that music is manipulating your emotions, think about how you indoctrinate yourself with every song, with every sermon, how you thank God when you believe he answers your prayers and how you thank him even when he doesn’t, just as if he doesn’t even exist.

            No, God didn’t save you from cancer, you just think he did. You’ve allowed yourself to be brainwashed to believe things that just aren’t true. Don’t blame atheists for that. Do you see how you yourself tried to use emotion with the story of your cancer to manipulate us? If you’re cancer came back, you’d simply excuse it and accept it. Exactly that happened to a dear friend of mine. She had cancer, was completely cured of it, praise God, and when it came back she praised him anyway and died. Believing you’re cured or not cured doesn’t matter. You’re indoctrinated to believe; you’re indoctrinated to indoctrinate us. I mean, it’s not like you would have stopped believing if you weren’t cured.

          • Matthew 22:37

            God has saved my life in other situations.
            You weren’t there to even observe them so stop making up details to suit yourself.

            Bye.

          • MR

            We tell ourselves many things. That doesn’t mean they are true. You don’t even need religion for that. What do you do to make sure you are not fooling yourself? I know I could be wrong that’s why I’m asking you. Surely God could put the words in your mouth that would actually convince me, or any of us. Or that would at least sound convincing. Why is God a god of emotion but not of reason? Why can’t he give you an irrefutable argument, or even show up himself? Perhaps he doesn’t exist?

            Thank your doctors, not imaginary beings. Tell me, would you have stopped believing if you weren’t cured? If not, what difference does it even make? Why are you so special that you get cured when other Christians don’t? If the cancer comes back, will you stop believing? If not, then why even brag about it? Isn’t that hubris?

            Why can’t you answer the questions I ask and want to flee instead? That makes your arguments look weak. Pray to God, for guidance, fine, but answer our questions honestly. Consider that you could be wrong.

          • Matthew 22:37

            I am not on the witness stand and owe you no explanations.

            Instead of misanalyzing Christians you should be seeking to know God. Time is short and nobody knows when he will die.

          • MR

            If I were misanalyzing, you’d be able to correct me. You run instead.

          • Matthew 22:37

            I am not interested in atheistic views. I heard enough of it. An honest person is capable of self examination like Christ said to do. That is the starting point of being born again: repentance.

            If you want to skirt the truth? Fine. Just don’t include me in your banal arguments or logic. There are tons of people on the internet and writing books that are proving atheist reasoning is wrong. Read them for a change before challenging people you don’t know on the Internet and stop acting like a control freak. You don’t get to reclassify another person’s experience as delusional off of an assumption. You were not in the other person’s mind to experience what they did so you are drawing a blank no matter what pseudo psychiatry you try to practice.

            There are tons of Christian scientists and psychiatrists in this world who do not call their faith delusional. Only you the ignorant, personally lacking knowledge do. So keep your opinion to yourself.

            You could have chosen to do things God’s way and found out the truth but you did not so don’t make up rationalizations now. All that’s left is realization and repentance to you. You are not perfect. You are no exception to the general sinfulness of the human race. You just took offense to God telling you you are a sinner like many do because you fear change when the fact of the matter is that sin is obvious and people and this world do need changing to a better standard than they currently are.

          • MR

            I don’t know what “atheistic views” you imagine, but all I’m asking is that you support your belief. Why should anyone believe you? An honest person is also capable of examining the evidence. I’m asking you for the evidence of your belief. It is in the pursuit of truth precisely why I am asking.

            You don’t get to reclassify another person’s experience as delusional off of an assumption.

            And why should you get to make an unevidenced claim. If you’re wrong, you’re deceiving people, whether you believe it or not. How do we guard against you deceiving us except for you to provide evidence for your claim.

            Why should I keep my opinion to myself when I believe that people like you are deceiving people? Wouldn’t it be my duty to point out that you have no evidence? To challenge you on your belief if you can’t provide us with an evidenced reason to believe? I’m supposed to just trust the story that some guy on the internet is telling me?

            This isn’t about me, it’s about your lack of evidence. I took no offense to God. You’re telling me not to reclassify another’s experience and yet I’m not the one doing that, that’s precisely what you’re doing. I’m just pointing out that there could be other explanations. I’m asking you to justify your belief. I’d be perfectly fine believing in God if he existed, because I want to know the truth. I don’t want to cling to some belief if it isn’t justified. All you’ve offered me is unjustified belief. I stated I could be wrong. You can’t even bring yourself to make a similar statement. That again suggests to me that your are fooling yourself. If you know for cert-certain that God exists then just simply provide the evidence instead of skirting the question. If you know for cert-certain that God exists but have no evidence, then on what grounds should anyone believe you? By your own observation, how stupid would it be for us to believe you?

            Again, could you be wrong? What have you done to ensure that you’re not fooling yourself? That you’re not being influenced by the false beliefs of others? By the emotional testimony of others like in the video you presented with grown men jumping around on stage crying and whipping people up in an emotional state. You know as well as I do that that is not evidence, that that is not the kind of behavior that one engages in when one is trying to present a serious case. If God exists, why does he rely on the emotion of someone’s story about being cured by cancer, but not an evidenced account of that story, or even a reasoned argument. Is God not also a god of reason? Why do Christians always shy away and make excuses when it comes to that? Don’t you think that sounds suspect?

            If you’re wrong, isn’t it wrong for you to try to convince me of something that isn’t true? If you don’t have evidence, isn’t it my duty to point that out? These aren’t my opinions, and by the way, if they were, I’d still have a right to express my opinions just like you do. It’s not my opinion that you have no evidence, you’ve given none. What evidence should anyone take before they believe in any god? What evidence would you need to believe in something so simple as Bigfoot, or leprechauns or fairies, let alone a claim for God? Do you have that level of evidence yourself?

          • Matthew 22:37

            I did not read the whole thing.

            If I were to prove God to you you can still subjectively decide to disbelieve the evidence. Or change the standard to increase it to let yourself off the hook.

            But if you examine yourself like Christ said to do you shouldn’t be able to let yourself off the hook not unless you are a self deceptive liar.

            Have a great day!

            God does know a thing or two about the human psyche y’know. He’s more expert than any psychiatrist ever born in fact.

            Isn’t Christ the healer of souls?

            So why did you call someone else’s mental health into question before calling your own into question?

            Don’t tell me. The devil made you do it and for shits and giggles.

            And I should take your analysis seriously?

            The “Mind is a Battlefield”. Read Joyce Meyers book by that name explaining it.

            And let God restore your mental health through spiritual healing. One day at a time. God is not the devil.

            He’s a beneficial relationship.

          • MR

            If I were to prove God to you

            Forget me, prove it to everyone else.

            Why do you believe what you believe? How do you support it? Could you be wrong?

            So why did you call someone else’s mental health into question before calling your own into question?

            Eh? You’re the one calling people’s mental health into question.. You’re sounding more and more dishonest with every post.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Look someone trying to take my freedom of speech away for the second time today.

            Someone really doesn’t want atheists to receive the gift of God’s salvation. They have to shut me up by sabotaging me electronically.

            22 minutes ago
            Detected as spam Thanks, we’ll work on getting this corrected.

            Look someone on here wants to take away my freedom of speech. So here I will repost it.
            Matthew 22:37 MR 3 minutes ago
            Detected as spam Thanks, we’ll work on getting this corrected.
            I am not even reading you any more MR. You lack empathy. You should check with a psychiatrist if you are a narcissist because you are over here boundary violating trying to make someone surrender their own thinking capability to you and you have nothing to offer except confusion, sin and death.
            You let the spirit of confusion, the critical spirit and possibly several other bad spirits reign in your heart and now you think you will assert a humanistic authority over me or a man made scientific one.
            Well you failed like every atheist I dialogued with who tried to do that failed.
            He is who within me is greater than he who is in the world.
            You might want to do a biblical study on all the evil spirits and how they manifest.
            Pick up a copy of the Robesons “ Strongman’s His Name What’s His Game?” and read it.
            Your personality could be disintegrative and dysfunctional and your soul could have been suffering from insecure attachment issues since childhood. Pick up a copy of Curt Thompson, M.D.’s Anatomy of the Soul.
            Why over compensate the wrong way: atheistically and narcissitically and xenophobically and antisocially when you can integrate spiritually and obtain peace in your heart?
            You need to learn to critically analyze yourself. A narcissist could have trouble doing that and admitting he is wrong.
            A narcissist prefers to manipulate others to examining why he himself is evil.
            So start doing the deep psychological research on yourself. You have been harboring sin like a disease in your soul without any resistance by your will at all and that is bound to have affected you.
            A lack of empathy? A classic sign of the narcissist and you refused to empathize with me. You had to win and even risked upsetting me. I already know cancer can reoccur. What am I stupid? But you had to try and burst my happiness to win an argument and validate your own sense of narcissistic superiority.
            You don’t give a damn about me. You are a narcissist.
            Go see a shrink and let him diagnose your unresolved personality disorder.
            I am tired of you atheists drama queens thinking mockery is socially acceptable.
            You never hurt me with it. You hurt yourselves and isolate yourselves with it. So you have underlying psychological wounds for doing that.
            So go see a shrink and make it an ethical Christian one.
            You wouldn’t want to let the devil win if Christianity is right and he really exists would you?
            Pick up a copy of Switch on Your Brain by Dr. Caroline Leaf and YOU be open to the evidence your own mind yields for a change.
            I am not reverting to someone else’s personality disorder and issues because they refuse to let God resolve them.
            You better wake up, smell the coffee, read those books and get mentally well. You have a lot of spiritual growing up to do. Don’t let the devil or weak thinking impede your social or spiritual progress. They are interrelated you know. Christ is the great physician and you need him to get you well.
            Have a blessed day and may his grace, peace and wisdom abound to you! May His whole blessing be on your life. Who doesn’t want God’s blessing. Don’t be a fool. Take it while you can and run with it.
            Have a nice day. You will feel better when you resolve this atheistic chip on your shoulder and social isolation and get your heart right with God. Then you will start to see some spiritual progress. Jesus is worthy and can make a new man out of you. Just stop rebelling and obey God for a change.
            What? You thought you could go against the Great Physician’s ( God’s ) orders and get away with it and be well?
            Well you can’t. Stop behaving like an idiot and accept God’s love for you and let Him make you well. He can heal you inside and out. Stop doubting and start socially accepting Him for a change.

          • MR

            Look someone on here wants to take away my freedom of speech.

            Technically, “freedom of speech” doesn’t apply here, it applies to government; but I agree that’s a rotten trick.

            You lack empathy.

            You keep projecting the worst of you on me. You’re the one that wants atheists to be segregated, remember?

            You should check with a psychiatrist if you are a narcissist because you are over here boundary violating trying to make someone surrender their own thinking capability to you and you have nothing to offer except confusion, sin and death.

            You’re such a drama kitty. No one can make another person believe something else. You can’t defend your own beliefs. All I’m doing is pointing that out. You’re trying to blame me for your own shortcomings.

            You let the spirit of confusion….

            A lot of superstitious nonsense. No evidence for spirits of anything. No evidence for God. You live in a make-believe world.

            Well you failed like every atheist….

            Oh, I haven’t failed. My goal hasn’t been to convince you. It’s been to show that your belief in God is unevidenced. You’ve hand-waved, twisted yourself into knots, backlashed, tried to shift the burden, demonized me, and all manner of things to avoid confronting the truth. To avoid answering simple, honest questions. My goal was to demonstrate that you have nothing with which to justify your belief. I’ve been quite successful. You haven’t been able to provide one iota of justification.

            Oh, Lord, you have to resort to psychoanalyzing me to deflect from your own shortcomings? Nice try.

            A lack of empathy? A classic sign of the narcissist and you refused to empathize with me. You had to win and even risked upsetting me. I already know cancer can reoccur. What am I stupid? But you had to try and burst my happiness to win an argument and validate your own sense of narcissistic superiority.

            Ah, is that why you say I lack empathy, I was wondering. If you’re cured, what am I supposed to empathize about? You’re cured, remember? I’m not trying to burst your happiness or win an argument or feel superior; I’m making a point. You’re the one who tried to use your cancer to manipulate me, remember? It’s a bogus argument and I called it out. You’re the one trying to make it about you. Talk about narcissistic! Well, good on you, that you were cured. Thank your doctors, they did all the work. Thank yourself, you did what you were supposed to. And yet, that’s all dependent on if what you say is true. You were the one who said it would be stupid just to trust someone on the internet. Does that only apply one way? If God cured your cancer, prove it. If you can’t prove it, why even bring it up unless you were fishing for empathy so you didn’t have to make an actual argument? Do you think we’re blind? That’s a pretty shitty thing to do in itself. Taking your own advice I shouldn’t just believe you, and emotional testimony just to get sympathy is pretty dishonest, even if you did have cancer.

            Imagine someone told us, “Bigfoot built a treehouse in my backyard.” Should we just accept their statement on the internet at face value? What if they posted an emotional, tear-laden testimony on the internet? Would photos of the treehouse suffice? What if you knew they were Bigfoot enthusiasts who spent their day watching YouTube videos about Bigfoot and joined other Bigfoot enthusiasts on Sunday mornings to worship Bigfoot and sing songs to and about Bigfoot, and met on Thursday nights to study Bigfoot lore? Would that make their story more or less convincing? Is it unreasonable not to believe that person?

            If not, then what level of evidence would it take to convince you that Bigfoot did in fact build a treehouse in their backyard? Do you have that level of evidence for your claim? Is it unreasonable if I don’t believe you?

            You’ve done nothing but avoid answering my simple basic questions, you’ve deflected, appealed to emotion and resorted to demonization. Your belief is empty and you know it and all you can do is lash out.

            What evidence do you have for your claims? How do you support your belief? Why do you believe what you believe, and if someone gave the same reasons for something you don’t currently believe, would that convince you? If not, why would you expect it to convince someone else? Quit making this about you and me. Provide your case for the world to see.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Oh and what is all that cult of personality that atheists Stalin, Mao and Kim engaged in about?

            I suggest you study your own group before casting verbal stones.

          • MR

            Yeah, that wasn’t an atheist cult. You’re just full of tropes, aren’t you? You should sit down and watch that video again and think about just what it looks like if you’re wrong. It’s creepy.

          • Matthew 22:37

            I am not sure what your point is.

            Have a good day. I am almost done talking to atheists now. The evil things most of you project onto God are creepy.

            Luke 6:45 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

            45 The good man out of the good [a]treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from [b]that which fills his heart.

            You should try getting your heart right with God because what you say about Him and theists is creepy.

            It reminds me of xenophobia like Hitler had. Antisocial personality disorder and narcissistic personality disorder.

            See….while you are getting nasty with the so called gullible Christians….we are psychoanalyzing your evil and dysfunctional behavior.

            I hope you see the light. Everyone’s a sinner until he gets his heart right with God.

            Romans 10:9 is the most personally effective verse of the whole Bible so memorize it. Some day you might need it.

            Read the Psalms. God’s love never fails. So He’s not creepy.

          • MR

            Watch the video again and see how they prey on and manipulate people’s emotions. Of course, you know, also, that they were asking for money at that event. The signs are right there in front of your eyes. Watch your own video. Don’t take my word for it. Remove your Jesus goggles for a moment and watch it again. No, God’s not creepy, he doesn’t exist, the scenario that is playing out in the video is creepy. They act the same as people who imagine they can cast a magic spell to cure someone. If those people were worshiping some other God that you didn’t believe in, you would find it creepy, too. I’m just trying to show you that the way you see things aren’t the way other people see things, and your’re not having the desired effect you think you are. And videos, also, aren’t like magic spells or prayers that just convert people. It’s silly, immature behavior for grown adults. Watch the video again and think about it.

          • Matthew 22:37

            I don’t think you have God given discernment. I think you look for easy explanations so you won’t have to let God deal with your sin.

            Not every Christian is a fraud though you want to make them that.

            Read up on what the Burnetts have done at the Love A Child mission down in Haiti.

            Google Kevin Ryan of Covenant House.

            Those are some true disciples and what they have done is verifiable.

            Christ is still making disciples today.

            And you are not going to exchange your pat answers for my perception/discernment.

            Even Jung says my personality type is the spiritual and perceptive type.

          • MR

            Oh, I don’t think most Christians are frauds. I think they’re mistaken. Christ isn’t doing shit. Those people are. God/Jesus can’t do one darn thing.

            Why do you suppose God needs to manipulate people with music, with emotion, talking like a snake oil salesman…? Telling people they’re broken, darkness surrounding them, bring them to tears, tell them they’re unworthy. 😛 That’s psychological manipulation.

            And, yet.

            God can’t seem to reveal himself clearly. He can’t seem to manage to make a case with reason. Is God so powerless, or maybe he doesn’t exist.

            Could it be that he doesn’t exist? Could you be wrong? If not, how do you know with certainty. Why do you believe?

          • Matthew 22:37

            No. I have been touched by God and had other interesting experiences.

            He exists.

            Hallelujah.

          • MR

            Saying so doesn’t make it true. You know that. You know that psychologically we can fool ourselves. What do you do to guard against that? Songs and sermons are just more indoctrination. What evidence should someone accept before they believe something? What evidence would you accept to believe Hinduism? Do you have that kind of evidence for your God?

          • Matthew 22:37

            Yeah, you could be the deceived one.
            Bye.

          • MR

            At least I’m open. You’re the one running.

          • Matthew 22:37

            There is no reason for me to be “open” to someone I don’t know on the Internet. That is stupid.

            On the other hand I trust God.

            I don’t trust opininated strangers meddling in my private affairs and decisions trying to control me when they appear to have issues themselves.

            Would you?

            If you would then you are gullible.

            I trust Christ because he proved himself trustworthy. But an atheist faith stealer? I do not trust them.

            My faith is my personal possession and you are an interfering meddler with half baked ideas trying to dominate my thinking and I find that offensive because there is no reason for me to grant authority to you and your cold hard hearted objectivity. Are you Josef Mengele? Should I trust him, too, because he says his authority is better than mine.

            Read agnostic evolutionist Stephen Gould on non-overlapping magisteria and grow up for a change. You have no right to invade my personal belief system that makes me a better person and attempt to change and control it.

          • MR

            I’m not asking you to be open. I’m asking you to support your belief. When I say I’m open, I’m saying I’m open to hear your evidence. Nothing I said is untrue. I repeat:

            You know that psychologically we can fool ourselves. What do you do to guard against that…? What evidence should someone accept before they believe something? What evidence would you accept to believe Hinduism? (As an example.) Do you have that kind of evidence for your God?

          • MR

            I don’t know why you would have brought up your own private affairs in the first place except that you were trying to manipulate us with your emotional testimony. It would be stupid for us to believe you.

            I’m not trying to control you, I’m simply pointing out that you give us no concrete reason to believe. Emotional testimony. [The video with] Grown men practicing well-known propaganda techniques like some traveling salesman conning people to buy his snake oil. Look how you yourself peddle fear in your comments.

            I wouldn’t trust someone like that. To quote someone I recently met:

            Would you?
            If you would then you are gullible.

            I agree. You should think about the implications of your own advice.

            I trust Christ because he proved himself trustworthy

            No, you just imagine he does.

            My faith is my personal possession

            Ding. Ding. Ding. That’s right. It’s all in your head. Christ can’t actually do anything. Just because you imagine he did this or that, it’s all in your head. Can Christ tell you an objective fact that you don’t currently know? No. You could pray until the cows come home and he’ll never be able to tell you what I had for dinner tonight. You think he cured your cancer, but he will never be able to provide one single, objectively verifiable fact. You know that and I know that. Otherwise, you’d be tripping over yourself to present some evidence.

            Now I’m Joseph Mengele simply because I ask for evidence so that I’m not deceived? What kind of upside world do you live in? Do you see what religion is doing to your brain?

            Non-overlapping magisteria? Oh, please. If God existed, he could your provide any kind of evidence, scientific or otherwise. That’s just a cop out for why it appears exactly like God doesn’t exist. Pray for him to use magic, I don’t care. Is God so weak that he can’t demonstrate himself to the world or even little ol’ me? Have him whisper in your ear what the headline of Le Monde will be in three days. You and I both know you’ll just make an excuse because we both know he can’t. That should be troubling to you.

            I’m not trying to control anything. I’m just pointing out that your belief is lacking evidence. And why do you repeatedly accuse me of things that you yourself are doing? Weren’t you trying to invade Bob’s personal belief system by showing him that video? I’m not trying to invade your belief system, I’m pointing out the flaws. There are many ways to be a better person. You don’t need to believe in imaginary beings to be a better person.

            What evidence should I accept before I believe anyone about any god? Should I just believe some guy on the internet? His claim that it was God who cured his cancer? Should I be that gullible? What evidence should I accept? You tell me.

            (edits)

          • Matthew 22:37

            Christianity is primarily subjective.

            God’s love is more important than self love.

            God’s love is something the whole world can build upon safely and securely.

            Self love is fragile, small and insecure.

            So be sure to accept God’s love.

            Read John 3:16.

            God sent us Jesus to demonstrate His love so stop letting the world and the devil upstage His demonstration in your heart.

            That is what rebellion does. Upstages God’s love in the human heart.

            You have to make up your mind to submit to God’s authority or not.

            If you refuse to it leaves you open to every Tom, Dick and Harry’s thinking.

            I know God has my welfare at heart but every Tom, Dick and Harry doesn’t.

            And God has your best interest at heart, too.

            Think about it. It isn’t as hard as atheists like to make it but the devil is the author of confusion.

          • MR

            Christianity is primarily subjective.

            So, an admission that it is not objectively true.

            God’s love is….

            Unless, of course, he doesn’t exist. Then this is all wistful thinking.

            God sent

            Unevidenced assertion.

            Why do you avoid answering those questions? Just ask God to give you the correct answer. If he existed, it shouldn’t be a problem.

            Why do you believe what you believe and how do you support it?

          • Matthew 22:37

            Christianity does have objective truth in addition to subjective truth. But God is performing a work in the human soul.

            How do you think He will perform this work if you keep skirting the issue and trying to erase Him with false authorities and man made idols and sin in your own mind.

            People are guilty of all of the above and self deception, too.

            Are you going to experience God objectively?

            No but if you believe in His love then you can know him subjectively and the subjective is more motivational than the objective isn’t it.

            God wants us to be moved to be doers of the Word, doesn’t he? But how many issues does a person have to resolve to take Him at His Word.

            Don’t the people denying He exists project their own doubts and fears onto Him and try to describe him as the devil. That is their inner self destructive thoughtlife attempting to override God’s account. God is Holy.

            But how many atheists have made Him unholy in their minds. When they do that they stay subject to Satan and he uses sin and temptation and fear to keep a person mentally enslaved. The old carrot and stick trick by Satan when he isn’t deceiving a person.

            You have no defense against Satan if you don’t let God train you up to a full measure of a man and learn how to control your own thoughts and put on the Armor of God.

            Don’t bad thoughts come from the world like arrows?

            Imagine someone like Hitler had had on the Armor of God. Then he wouldn’t have merged xenophobia, narcissism, PTSD, Nietsche, Darwin and the occult in his thoughtlife and produced Aryanism with which he duped the Germans.

          • MR

            Christianity does have objective truth

            If it’s objective, demonstrate it.

            Everything else you’ve said is just deflection.

            What do you believe? Could you be wrong? How do you support it?

            This is your opportunity to nail it. If you can’t demonstrate this, then by your own advice I shouldn’t believe you.

          • Matthew 22:37

            I am done with you.

            You need proof then go seek it.

            I am not your servant to locate proof you can find on your own.

            I located all my own and I am not going to give you any more because you are owned by the devil and just use cheap subjective devaluation tricks to deny what I can judge for myself.

            You are going on block and I am leaving this site.

            God can leave you to your own devices and I am going to copy Him.

            You failed to be a genuine truth seeker to maintain your sin and that is all I need to know.

            Arguing with you is a worthless endeavor when you refuse to let God get real with you.

            So go play your head games by yourself.

            You let the devil own you in your thoughtlife and now he directs your action.

            That’s why I never submit to atheist games any more.

            Christ is my ruler. I serve Christ not Satan.

            Sorry that you surrendered your judgment and self control when you surrendered your thoughtlife to the world but that is what you did because you failed to pay the proper love and respect to Jesus.

            Blocking you later today. So don’t expect any more replies.

            I don’t submit to the devil. I am a Christian in support of Jesus destroying the works of the devil. Sin is the devil’s work in a person.

            You aren’t going to dictate to me any more than that Satanist pud, masquerading as an atheist, dictates to me.

            I hope you repent. Bye.

          • MR

            You keep saying that, but you never seem to go away.

            All I’m trying to demonstrate is that you have no answers. There are thousands of religious beliefs out there that are wrong. How do we determine which are true and which are false if not by asking their believers to support their belief? For all I know, yours could be wrong. Indeed, I suspect it is. Especially since you’ve done nothing but deflect since we’ve started this conversation. Sure it’s easy to demonize and berate the atheist for not believing and all the yadda, yadda, bullshit that you spewed in all these many posts, but there are others who are struggling with their faith right now, I was one of them once, and I know that they are looking to you for answers.

            For those of you who are struggling, you’ve seen the great lengths that Matthew has gone to avoid answering even simple questions. How he’s accused me of calling into question his mental state while calling into question my mental state! I mean, what is that about? Well, it’s about deflecting so that you won’t notice that he can’t answer a simple question. Answers to the questions that you too are asking yourself. Notice how he won’t, how he can’t answer them. Ask yourselves why.

            Even as an atheist, I know I could be wrong. Some of you are struggling right now with whether you might be wrong. Now go back and read Matthew’s comments and see if he’s got answers. Is he going to ease your worries or is he just going to berate you for not believing? He claims to know something he can’t demonstrate and has gone to great lengths to avoid defending his faith to the point of attacking me rather than answering the questions. What does that tell you? He tried to mock me by asking why he should believe someone on the internet, but why should we believe him!? Belief without evidence is just empty rhetoric. I may not have the answer, but it’s clear he doesn’t either.

            I know why I used to believe. The people around me, the people I love, believed. But they believed unquestioningly. We know too much about the world now to believe unquestioningly. If God exists, why can’t Matthew answer my simple questions? Why wouldn’t God give him the answers he needs? Why does he use emotion and demonization instead when he has all-powerful God on his side?

            Take note how some religious people will marginalize you for not believing. Note his lack of empathy. I must be evil for not believing. I must be rebelling against God. It’s not true for me, and above all you know it’s not true for you. But expect this kind of reaction from the religious if you question. They don’t have answers, and they will blame you just like Matthew has.

            For those of you who are struggling. Ask yourselves, why do you believe. Could you be wrong? How would you support your belief? Ask yourselves, why won’t Matthew answer?

          • Matthew 22:37

            i am keeping my word. Block.

          • MR

            Why do you believe what you believe and how do you support it? Could you be wrong?

          • Matthew 22:37

            Here is God’s counsel:

            Proverbs 4:23, New International Version
            Above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it.

            You don’t have my interests at heart. All you want to do is win.

            I am not opening up and allowing you to tear my morals from me to suit yourself.

            And there is no reason I should grant you trust.

            Do you tell little children to be open to strangers, too? If you do you are a dunce because there are a lot of untrustworthy people in this world and everyone knows you don’t trust what is precious to just anybody.

            That is only commonsense.

            Any parent who raised a child knows that and this religious debate is no different.

            A Christian has something to give: God’s message but an atheist can only try to take away.

            The value systems are just too different. Really atheists should have split off and formed their own nation alone with themselves a long time ago but they prefer trying to fit in with the faithful and insisting on the faithful being open to them when there is no reason for anyone being open to things that are deleterious to their self interest. People have a right to their spirituality and to personal identity decisions without incompetent interference from people they don’t know and shouldn’t trust.

            Christ died so people could be born again.

            I shouldn’t have to give up a right Christ died to ensure for me any more than a person of one race should allow himself to be talked out of his rights to another person of another race.

            You should start learning to think things through from the other person’s perspective then you would not ascribe your own false values to them. That’s boundary violating and that is immoral.

          • MR

            Think about what you’re saying. You’re here spreading a belief that you can’t demonstrate as true and you’re telling me not to trust strangers? That applies precisely to you. I’m not the one making claims here beyond, “I don’t believe you.”

            By your own words I shouldn’t believe your story. You could be lying. You could be fudging the truth a little. You could be lying to yourself. You could be delusional. Indoctrinated into belief like I used to be. Why should anyone trust or believe you ? All I’m asking is for you to justify your belief. If you could do that, you wouldn’t hesitate to do so. You squirm because you know you can’t.

            You claim to have an all-powerful God [such a god] could put the words in your mouth to convince not only me, but others. By your own words we shouldn’t trust you. That you shy away from supporting your belief is even more of an indication that we shouldn’t trust you.

            Atheists should have split off and formed their own nation? Really? See, right there is the damage that religion does. It divides people. “Atheists should have split off…, Muslims should have split off…, Mormons should have split off…, everyone should split off except the people who believe exactly what I believe (something I can’t demonstrate, by they way).” And soon you’re left all alone by yourself. No, the value systems of human beings aren’t that different. You’ve just been brainwashed to believe that they are. You need to get out of your bubble. People of all kinds of religions and without religion get along every single day and hold similar values. It’s just that some of them also hold beliefs in non-existent beings.

            What delusional gibberish are you talking about? I’m not trying to take any rights away from you, you’re making a crazy claim and I’m asking you to justify this claim. I’m asking what you yourself would consider a justified claim. Yes, start thinking from the other person’s perspective and think about how crazy what you’re saying is. No one should believe the kinds of claims you make without some kind of compelling evidence.

            If you had that evidence, you would just present it. Since you don’t, that should suggest to you that you could be wrong. It certainly suggests to us that you could be wrong. Why should *I* trust the claims of some stranger on the internet? The burden of proof is yours. My only claim is that I don’t believe you.

            What evidence should someone accept before they believe in someone’s God? What kind of evidence would you require? What kind of evidence, should I require? You tell me. Do you have that kind of evidence for your own religion? (edits)

          • Matthew 22:37

            I am not reading all this because you are trying to void God’s authority and substitute a man made authority as higher and that just keeps you in a state of unbelief.

            You are going to have to examine why you do that.

            I don’t accept science as authoritative over God obviously.

            This is why you examine yourself, repent and surrender to God.

            So you can get free of man made authorities and strictly subordinate to God Our Father.

            Why let the devil sabotage Your Father’s image in you voluntarily.

            You are allowing yourself to stay weak to sin and a slave to the devil when you do that.

            The Bible says to never give the devil a foothold. The biggest foothold he can get is in your mind isn’t it?

            I am not surrendering God’s authority to man made ones. God’s is the ultimate highest authority. There is no other higher authority than God’s.

            Thanks for nothing. Trying to force substandard humanistic rationalizations onto me when God reasons better than everyone else. Always.

            Have a great day. Resolve your relationship in the right way with God and all this social complaining you do will probably go away and one day you could be a man that God approves of.

            Have a blessed day!

          • MR

            I am not reading all this because you are trying to…

            I’m trying to show you have nothing to back up your beliefs and you’re proving me right. Stating that God anything is kind of silly until you can show that he exists. Everything you say here is just gibberish without evidence.

            You’re not reading my post because you know you can’t respond to it.

            I don’t accept science as authoritative over God obviously.

            This is why you examine yourself, repent and surrender to God.

            Talk about non sequitur! Show me that God exists and then we can talk. Why do you believe what you believe. How do you support it?

            Trying to force substandard humanistic rationalizations onto me when God reasons better than everyone else. Always.

            If god reasons better, then why aren’t you presenting that? All you do is deflect.

            Why do you believe? How do you support it?

          • Matthew 22:37

            Bob, I want you to receive this information and meditate on it. Fools rush in so don’t answer with a pat reply. Simply roll this idea around in your mind pondering it for a while. Practicing biblical meditation and learning to think judiciously.

            Remember. Fools rush in.

            Now the information is this. Many Christians KNOW God exists. How do I know that? Because many will say they have formed a relationship with God or Jesus.

            A solid relationship is based on knowledge of the other person. A good bit of that knowledge is supplied by God Himself through the Bible.

            Some people absorb the knowledge and relationship like a seed and let it transform them but some do not. That is why the Parable of the Sower is given in the Bible.

            Only the people in “the know” can interpret the parables. Jesus said so.

            So I would start seeking to become one of the enlightened people in the know if I were you.

            Satan will keep you in darkness if you don’t have the right attitude and let him.

            Have a blessed day.

            Remember. Don’t reply. This is not an argument this is an observation about how God interacts with people for you to meditate on. Just hold the idea in your heart and ponder it a long time.

            I hope you see the light. Have a good day and pray on everything.

          • Many Christians KNOW God exists.

            and many Muslims “know” Allah exists.

          • MR

            Also, many Christians who used to KNOW God exists came to realize they were mistaken, that they’d simply been indoctrinated to believe that was true, but that there was no real justification for that belief.

            They became ex-Christians.

            Some people reading now may be questioning and hoping that Matthew can provide some kind of concrete justification for belief in God. I tried to get him to provide some, but he just attacks instead, I presume to deflect from the fact that there is none.

          • Jack Wellman

            There is no such thing as an ex-Christian. God has no aborted children (Rom 8). 1 John 2:19

          • MR

            Yes, imaginary figures don’t have a lot of things.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Christians can easily prove Allah is a false God.

            I believe you think you can deconstruct Christians thoughtlives by playing these childish intellectual games.

            Did you know the other day I watched “Abducted in Plain Sight” on Netflix and Jan Broberg who had been brainwashed by a pedophile stayed that way for a year or two but then one day she figured out she had been lied to.

            In “The Girl in the Box” book which was written about a real kidnapping and the horrendous physical and psychological torture of a co-ed that woman figured out that her torturer/brainwasher was lying to her, too.

            I have not been tortured or brainwashed. How do I know? Because if I were with all the persecution and verbal abuse that I have been subjected to over the past 16 years by atheists my mind would have broken.

            Atheist dudes are always mocking serious online Christians with the stupidest remarks and chatter. Almost like they are brainwashed. Plus they cannot read the Bible and comprehend it accurately and refuse correction from people better than they are in Biblical understanding.

            Now if the atheist brainwashed himself or if Satan is doing it is debatable.

            I used to dissect false religions refuting them. If I were brainwashed then I would have realized it but I never have.

            No Christian group has ever made me do something that I did not want to do.

            So your brainwashing theory is bunk. It’s a pity so many atheists bought this lie when so many Christians go on to form a beneficial relationship with God that benefits them and in turn benefits society.

            Instead atheists like to hyper focus on incidents dismissing all the charities Christians work in and promote which is the true pattern of a good belief in God so they can indict Christians and refuse to change themselves.

            You can choose to focus on the negative or the positive in your own mind or acknowledge that both sometimes occur.

            I don’t even attend church regularly because I am in a minority group and can never seem to find UR churches. I might start one one day so all the UR Christians can get together.

            I have read so many denominational views, belonged to several different denominations and went through a late in life conversionary experience. But I was still a born believer.

            If anyone were going to snap out of brainwashing like your buddy pud thinks can happen it would have been me.

            But even under extreme verbal abuse over an extended period of time I never snapped out of it because God is right and I know it.

            That’s what you militant atheists do with all your debating. You are trying to super impose your weak belief system on people who don’t need it.

            Only the intellectual weaklings are going to fall for it.

            I actually feel stronger and more fearless in my faith as time goes on and there is nothing a meddlesome atheist can do about it.

            Have a nice day. I told you not to send me a response.

            I don’t need you thinking for me. I can think for myself and usually self analyze myself out of problems all the time. Christianity is not a problem though. It is the solution.

          • Christians can easily prove Allah is a false God.

            Muslims can easily prove that Christians are worshiping a false god (and polytheistic, too).

            Say, this is fun! Let’s continue, where you make some bold, unsubstantiated claim in favor of Christianity, and then I turn it back on you from the standpoint of a believer in any of hundreds of other religions.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Inspiration is not compulsion, Bob.

            It never has been.

            Islam is an Old Covenant religion based on works.

            I made my decision on Jesus not on origins.

            How could I make it on origins. Only God knows all about those.

            Besides if I couldn’t focus on Jesus then I couldn’t follow his example in this world then could I?

            I hope you see the light and start to focus on the critical starting point so you can receive your faith from God. You are too intelligent a man to be walking around unenlightened.

            Peace Be With You!

          • Matthew 22:37

            Well since online atheists have a propensity to ad hominem attack, Bob, I decline to personally argue as I find the attacks both veiled and unveiled are not something I have to honor with a reply as per Jesus’ advice in Matthew 7:6.

            Besides there is no theological burden of proof as Paul shows in Acts and no philosophical one as the agnostic Kenny and William Lane Craig explain.
            Especially not if atheists are suppressing the truth as per Romans 1.

            Though I could provide you with the occasional written observation on the evidence by people far more scientifically literate than either you or me. Like Microbiologist Nobel Laureate Werner Arber’s conclusion that the world is intelligently designed.

            Here’s a summary of Arber’s reasoning.
            https://www.icr.org/article/werner-arber-nobel-laureate-darwin-skeptic/

            You could also google plant geneticist John C. Sanford’s explanation that evolution can’t be correct because the human genome is deteriorating.

            An interesting article to think about: Richard Dawkins and Atheist Crimes
            https://www.huffingtonpost.com/rory-fitzgerald/richard-dawkins-should-be_b_541387.html

            Quote from the huff post article:
            Dawkins has many times tried to say that Einstein was not spiritual in the way most people understand it. Yet Einstein said this:

            “My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.”

            Here is perhaps the most important scientist of all time, with an incredibly profound mind, but with the humility to acknowledge how feeble and frail the human mind really is. Our universe is far from explained and the more our scientific knowledge increases, the more mysterious our reality seems to be. It is untrue to say that the settled explanation of our universe is that it is a meaningless accident that functions solely on mechanistic principles. – end quote

            Essentially atheists like to question Christian sanity which is unethical in my opinion so why keep subjecting myself to unethical behavior.

            Google “Punitive Psychiatry in the Soviet Union” and read up on it and I think you might see that Richard Dawkins has been engaging in punitive psychiatry and encouraging others to do it without a psychiatric credential.

            Though anyone could theoretically be brainwashed. I seriously doubt most Christians are because the mechanism used to convict a Christian is inspiration not compulsion.

            In contrast a lot of unbelievers seem to have an overly high opinion of their own logic plus many scientific types are peer pressured into expressing skepticism by the scientific community calling their rationality into question.

            Too bad more atheists didn’t doubt their own intellect more like Einstein did. It seems he was fully aware that he wasn’t omniscient.

            Have a blessed day, Bob!

            Cya.

          • I’m doing you a favor. Since you seem to be unaware how your unsubstantiated claims look, I’m giving you additional ones that are just as well-grounded as your own.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Bob, you are biased. Everyone has a bias so I hope you will reconsider and let God adopt you into His family.

            Really who cares about origins. Today is the day of salvation.

            Stop keeping your eyes firmly closed against enlightenment and spend more time in the Word where you can learn about God’s care for you. He didn’t just care for you. He took action and destroyed the works of the devil so the devil cannot hold you unless you let him.

            So start letting God overrule the devil in your heart.

            You know Einstein seemed to be caught in confusion between God and the devil. Too smart to deny God but not spiritually literate enough to accept Him at His Word and acknowledge Him. He seems to have always been too busy to get the basic scriptural foundational knowledge down. Maybe he got too distracted with science and math so he never let God explain things to him as fully as he should have.

            Listen to this song. Don’t raise an objection. Just mediate along with the godly idea being expressed.

            Open the Eyes of My Heart
            https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ViBNqNukgzE

            You are going to have to give the Lord a fair hearing some day, Bob, and the sooner the better for you.

            God bless you and keep you!

          • Matthew 22:37

            Have you read Paul Davies site?

            It’s an interesting site to read. Start with this article:

            The Logic or Thinking behind Naturalism and Its Derivatives Is Flawed
            on philosophy-of-science dot com

            Quote:
            I and many others have observed that Materialism of any kind is based upon a refusal to look at evidence. My Materialism and My Atheism were based upon a refusal to look at any contradictory evidence. Materialism is deliberately limited and purposefully exclusionary. Materialism is an extremely poor foundation from which to do philosophy and science because Materialism deliberately eliminates the most interesting scientific disciplines from consideration. Rocks can’t do philosophy and science. That’s just the reality of the situation. The rocks did NOT design and create and produce our proteins, genes, genomes, eyes, brains, and physical bodies. Entropy would prevent the rocks from doing so. There’s no such thing as spontaneous generation. Spontaneous generation has been falsified by Science.
            Once we know that Materialism is false and why it is false, then we can no longer use Materialism and Naturalism as our model of reality nor as our basis for science. Consequently, we find ourselves looking for a better and more sustainable model for reality. – end quote

            Please read Paul Davies’ Convincing Proof of God’s Evidence on philosophy of science dot com.

            I just came across this site today and it might change the way you approach the subject of science and religion.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Bob I can’t help thinking atheists may have shot themselves in the foot accepting science and philosophy as legitimate authorities ahead of God’s authority.

            And the reason is this. Too much information gives one false confidence in one’s own thinking while at the same time engendering confusion.

            If you go car shopping for instance and you limit your choices down to two or three first then car shopping becomes a lot more manageable and you can actually by a car then.

            But if you think you have too big a range of options you go away empty handed, indecisive and confused and this is true of anyone even an intelligent person when making a decision.

            A lot of Christian theology keys on the attributes of God. That’s how you learn to recognize the truth and distinguish the true God from other false gods.

            Don’t let people keep making their questions your question and concern or introducing extraneous information that isn’t of importance to you but just confuses issues.

            You have your own mind to pinpoint what is of importance unless you let some person invalidate your use of it by making their concerns your concerns.

            Have a good day.

          • I can’t help thinking atheists may have shot themselves in the foot accepting science and philosophy as legitimate authorities ahead of God’s authority.
            And the reason is this. Too much information gives one false confidence in one’s own thinking while at the same time engendering confusion.

            Science doesn’t know everything, but religion doesn’t know anything.

            Said another way: science delivers. It ain’t perfect, and we must keep its imperfections in view, but it’s sure better than religion, which has taught us nothing about the world we live in.

          • MR

            Too much information indoctrination gives one false confidence in one’s own thinking while at the same time engendering confusion.

            FTFH.

            Funny, basically his message is: Stay Stupid.

            Why doesn’t that surprise me?

          • Matthew 22:37

            What about morality?

            What about the eradication of infanticide?

            The Bible led to science. Christian scientists were looking for natural laws because they were articulating the mind of God the Lawgiver.

            And probably many other things.

            You should read Davies site.

            Davies has a proof of God section as well.

          • Morality comes from people.

            It’s true that many important scientists have been Christians, but they might also have been beer drinkers. Neither was causative. No, the Bible didn’t lead to science. Think for yourself before you parrot a Christian argument.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Bye then.

            You can read Davies proof of God section and his explanation that materialism’s major premise is refutable by science.

          • Matthew 22:37

            You cherrypicked.

            Judeo-Christian beliefs ended worldwide infanticide.

            Is ending worldwide infanticide unimportant?

          • Judeo-Christian beliefs ended worldwide infanticide.

            Because only Christians have morals? Citation needed.

          • MR

            Ah, yes….

            How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones against the rock. –Psalms 137.9

          • Well, it sounds better in the original Hebrew …

          • Matthew 22:37

            Google Viking infanticide. It occurred up until the 7 th century. Usually gender selective.

            If the Greeks didn’t like a baby’s profile they left it on a hilltop to die.

            Infanticide was worldwide.

            Judeo Christians celebrate the sanctity of life and discouraged it.

            From wiki on the “Role of Christianity in civilization” topic:

            The world’s first civilizations were Mesopotamian sacred states ruled in the name of a divinity or by rulers who were themselves seen as divine. Rulers, and the priests, soldiers and bureaucrats who carried out their will, were a small minority who kept power by exploiting the many.[37]

            If we turn to the roots of our western tradition, we find that in Greek and Roman times not all human life was regarded as inviolable and worthy of protection. Slaves and ‘barbarians’ did not have a full right to life and human sacrifices and gladiatorial combat were acceptable… Spartan Law required that deformed infants be put to death; for Plato, infanticide is one of the regular institutions of the ideal State; Aristotle regards abortion as a desirable option; and the Stoic philosopher Seneca writes unapologetically: “Unnatural progeny we destroy; we drown even children who at birth are weakly and abnormal… And whilst there were deviations from these views…, it is probably correct to say that such practices…were less proscribed in ancient times. Most historians of western morals agree that the rise of …Christianity contributed greatly to the general feeling that human life is valuable and worthy of respect.[38]

            W.E.H.Lecky gives the now classical account of the sanctity of human life in his history of European morals saying Christianity “formed a new standard, higher than any which then existed in the world…”[39] Christian ethicist David P. Gushee says “The justice teachings of Jesus are closely related to a commitment to life’s sanctity…”[40] John Keown, a professor of Christian ethics distinguishes this ‘sanctity of life’ doctrine from “a quality of life approach, which recognizes only instrumental value in human life, and a vitalistic approach, which regards life as an absolute moral value… [Kewon says it is the] sanctity of life approach … which embeds a presumption in favor of preserving life, but concedes that there are circumstances in which life should not be preserved at all costs”, and it is this which provides the solid foundation for law concerning end of life issues.[41]

            Women

            Rome had a social caste system, with women having “no legal independence and no independent property.”[42] Early Christianity, as Pliny the Younger explains in his letters to Emperor Trajan, had people from “every age and rank, and both sexes.”[43] Pliny reports arresting two slave women who claimed to be ‘deaconesses’ in the first decade of the second century.[44] There was a rite for the ordination of women deacons in the Roman Pontifical, (a liturgical book), up through the 12th century. For women deacons, the oldest rite in the West comes from an eighth-century book, whereas Eastern rites go all the way back to the third century and there are more of them.[45]

            The New Testament refers to a number of women in Jesus’ inner circle. There are several Gospel accounts of Jesus imparting important teachings to and about women: his meeting with the Samaritan woman at the well, his anointing by Mary of Bethany, his public admiration for a poor widow who donated two copper coins to the Temple in Jerusalem, his stepping to the aid of the woman accused of adultery, his friendship with Mary and Martha the sisters of Lazarus, and the presence of Mary Magdalene, his mother, and the other women as he was crucified. Historian Geoffrey Blainey concludes that “as the standing of women was not high in Palestine, Jesus’ kindnesses towards them were not always approved by those who strictly upheld tradition.”[46]

            According to Christian apologist Tim Keller, it was common in the Greco-Roman world to expose female infants because of the low status of women in society. The church forbade its members to do so. Greco-Roman society saw no value in an unmarried woman, and therefore it was illegal for a widow to go more than two years without remarrying. Christianity did not force widows to marry and supported them financially. Pagan widows lost all control of their husband’s estate when they remarried, but the church allowed widows to maintain their husband’s estate. Christians did not believe in cohabitation. If a Christian man wanted to live with a woman, the church required marriage, and this gave women legal rights and far greater security. Finally, the pagan double standard of allowing married men to have extramarital sex and mistresses was forbidden. Jesus’ teachings on divorce and Paul’s advocacy of monogamy began the process of elevating the status of women so that Christian women tended to enjoy greater security and equality than did women in surrounding cultures.[47]

            Children

            In the ancient world infanticide was not legal but was rarely prosecuted. A broad distinction was popularly made between infanticide and infant exposure which was practiced on a gigantic scale with impunity. Many exposed children died, but many were taken by speculators who raised them to be slaves or prostitutes. It is not possible to ascertain, with any degree of accuracy, what diminution of infanticide resulted from legal efforts against it in the Roman empire. “It may, however, be safely asserted that the publicity of the trade in exposed children became impossible under the influence of Christianity, and that the sense of the seriousness of the crime was very considerably increased.

          • Whew! I was worried that conditions for people in 11th-century Europe were abysmal, with human rights violations galore. I’m definitely going to sleep a little easier tonight knowing that in Christian Europe, things were universally peachy.

          • Matthew 22:37

            They weren’t us today if that’s what you mean.

            But just think if just one of your ancestors had died early from infanticide then there would be no Bob Seidensticker today. Not without God’s intervention.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Do you consider yourself a New Atheist?

            If you do you might want to take a step back from it and consider your health.

            I suspect ruminating on religion and atheism only makes some people angrier and being continuously angry is stressful and bad for one’s health.

            All this philosophical arguing can’t be good for one’s health.

            It is better to break the arguing cycle and turn yourself over to God.

            There are many articles online about the hidden dangers of rumination. Since atheists rates of suicide are higher it might be better if some of you located these articles so you can learn to break the cycle of rumination. Angry rumination fosters negative thinking, can lead to alcoholism, lead to depression, get a person caught up in a never ending cycle, etc.

            Read The Seven Hidden Dangers of Brooding and Ruminating on Psychology Today.

            You engage in a lot of this online angry type ruminative New Atheist arguing, Bob, and I imagine it is not so good for your health.

            God actually teaches theists to never go to bed angry. By doing that we never let the devil get a foothold in our thinking.

            Break the cycle of angry rumination and arguing, Bob, I think you will feel better.

          • Do you consider yourself a New Atheist?

            I consider myself an atheist.

            I suspect ruminating on religion and atheism only makes some people angrier and being continuously angry is stressful and bad for one’s health.

            Christians’ excesses do bother me, and that’s the reason for this blog. But lots of the world’s problems bother me. I can’t put my head in the sand.

            It is better to break the arguing cycle and turn yourself over to God.

            Since when has God ever done anything to improve the human condition?

            You engage in a lot of this online angry type ruminative New Atheist arguing, Bob, and I imagine it is not so good for your health.

            I doubt it. Having a cause keeps my brain active and young.

          • Matthew 22:37

            When did God improve the human condition? When his Son died on the Cross for people’s sins. When He gave Israel the law so they could keep proper social boundaries that protected them and when the sanctity of life concept stopped infanticide.

            He regularly has disciples trained up in Jesus’ name and they proceed to perform all kinds of charitable activities in this world.

          • People lived and died, some happy and some not, in the time of Jesus. Now that Jesus has died, people still live and die, some happy and some not.

            At every turn, there’s no evidence for the Christian claims. Why believe?

          • Matthew 22:37

            You seem to be set in your ways and that may be why you refuse to learn God’s ways.

            Paul Davies, an ex-atheist, proved God existed to himself in 2012 but I doubt he ever achieved the relationship with God. He wrote about disproving the first premise of materialism and that materialism is a box that keeps people from realizing that God exists.

            I don’t know enough about him at this time though. I am not sure if he was a deist or still a seeker when he died.

            He probably did not receive the right information to build a relationship with God because he died in 2014.

            I hope you learn to seek. God rewards seekers.

            Maybe you can ask God to make you into a seeker according to His standards instead of the world’s for a change.

          • Me?? You’re the one who refuses to bend the knee to Allah.

          • Matthew 22:37

            I will try not to darken your door again now I know your mind is made up.

            Cya.

          • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

            *SCIENCE* improved the human condition…and it had to wait until xtianity was fatally weakened by the Protestant Reformation, because religion was strong enough to suppress science before then.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Prayer is good for your brain and you don’t pray do you? Read up on it.

          • Matthew 22:37

            An idle mind is the devil’s playground and a lazy skeptic is theologically lazy and never stands up for God in his mind.

            You think all the work has been done already by science proving the non-existence of God but that is YOU jumping to conclusions.

            The smartest atheists know you cannot disprove the existence of God so why are you acting like they can?

            From gotquestions.org:

            Is there an argument for the existence of God?

            Answer: The question of whether there is a conclusive argument for the existence of God has been debated throughout history, with exceedingly intelligent people taking both sides of the dispute. In recent times, arguments against the possibility of God’s existence have taken on a militant spirit that accuses anyone daring to believe in God as being delusional and irrational. Karl Marx asserted that anyone believing in God must have a mental disorder that caused invalid thinking. The psychiatrist Sigmund Freud wrote that a person who believed in a Creator God was delusional and only held those beliefs due to a “wish-fulfillment” factor that produced what Freud considered to be an unjustifiable position. The philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche bluntly said that faith equates to not wanting to know what is true. The voices of these three figures from history (along with others) are simply now parroted by a new generation of atheists who claim that a belief in God is intellectually unwarranted.

            Is this truly the case? Is belief in God a rationally unacceptable position to hold? Is there a logical and reasonable argument for the existence of God? Outside of referencing the Bible, can a case for the existence of God be made that refutes the positions of both the old and new atheists and gives sufficient warrant for believing in a Creator? The answer is, yes, it can. Moreover, in demonstrating the validity of an argument for the existence of God, the case for atheism is shown to be intellectually weak.

            To make an argument for the existence of God, we must start by asking the right questions. We begin with the most basic metaphysical question: “Why do we have something rather than nothing at all?” This is the basic question of existence—why are we here; why is the earth here; why is the universe here rather than nothing? Commenting on this point, one theologian has said, “In one sense man does not ask the question about God, his very existence raises the question about God.”

            In considering this question, there are four possible answers to why we have something rather than nothing at all:

            1. Reality is an illusion.
            2. Reality is/was self-created.
            3. Reality is self-existent (eternal).
            4. Reality was created by something that is self-existent.

            So, which is the most plausible solution? Let’s begin with reality being simply an illusion, which is what a number of Eastern religions believe. This option was ruled out centuries ago by the philosopher Rene Descartes who is famous for the statement, “I think, therefore I am.” Descartes, a mathematician, argued that if he is thinking, then he must “be.” In other words, “I think, therefore I am not an illusion.” Illusions require something experiencing the illusion, and moreover, you cannot doubt the existence of yourself without proving your existence; it is a self-defeating argument. So the possibility of reality being an illusion is eliminated.

            Next is the option of reality being self-created. When we study philosophy, we learn of “analytically false” statements, which means they are false by definition. The possibility of reality being self-created is one of those types of statements for the simple reason that something cannot be prior to itself. If you created yourself, then you must have existed prior to you creating yourself, but that simply cannot be. In evolution this is sometimes referred to as “spontaneous generation” —something coming from nothing—a position that few, if any, reasonable people hold to anymore simply because you cannot get something from nothing. Even the atheist David Hume said, “I never asserted so absurd a proposition as that anything might arise without a cause.” Since something cannot come from nothing, the alternative of reality being self-created is ruled out.

            Now we are left with only two choices—an eternal reality or reality being created by something that is eternal: an eternal universe or an eternal Creator. The 18th-century theologian Jonathan Edwards summed up this crossroads:

            • Something exists.
            • Nothing cannot create something.
            • Therefore, a necessary and eternal “something” exists.

            Notice that we must go back to an eternal “something.” The atheist who derides the believer in God for believing in an eternal Creator must turn around and embrace an eternal universe; it is the only other door he can choose. But the question now is, where does the evidence lead? Does the evidence point to matter before mind or mind before matter?

            To date, all key scientific and philosophical evidence points away from an eternal universe and toward an eternal Creator. From a scientific standpoint, honest scientists admit the universe had a beginning, and whatever has a beginning is not eternal. In other words, whatever has a beginning has a cause, and if the universe had a beginning, it had a cause. The fact that the universe had a beginning is underscored by evidence such as the second law of thermodynamics, the radiation echo of the big bang discovered in the early 1900s, the fact that the universe is expanding and can be traced back to a singular beginning, and Einstein’s theory of relativity. All prove the universe is not eternal.

            Further, the laws that surround causation speak against the universe being the ultimate cause of all we know for this simple fact: an effect must resemble its cause. This being true, no atheist can explain how an impersonal, purposeless, meaningless, and amoral universe accidentally created beings (us) who are full of personality and obsessed with purpose, meaning, and morals. Such a thing, from a causation standpoint, completely refutes the idea of a natural universe birthing everything that exists. So in the end, the concept of an eternal universe is eliminated.

            Philosopher J. S. Mill (not a Christian) summed up where we have now come to: “It is self-evident that only Mind can create mind.” The only rational and reasonable conclusion is that an eternal Creator is the one who is responsible for reality as we know it. Or to put it in a logical set of statements:

            • Something exists.
            • You do not get something from nothing.
            • Therefore a necessary and eternal “something” exists.
            • The only two options are an eternal universe and an eternal Creator.
            • Science and philosophy have disproven the concept of an eternal universe.
            • Therefore, an eternal Creator exists.

            Former atheist Lee Strobel, who arrived at this end result many years ago, has commented, “Essentially, I realized that to stay an atheist, I would have to believe that nothing produces everything; non-life produces life; randomness produces fine-tuning; chaos produces information; unconsciousness produces consciousness; and non-reason produces reason. Those leaps of faith were simply too big for me to take, especially in light of the affirmative case for God’s existence … In other words, in my assessment the Christian worldview accounted for the totality of the evidence much better than the atheistic worldview.”

            But the next question we must tackle is this: if an eternal Creator exists (and we have shown that He does), what kind of Creator is He? Can we infer things about Him from what He created? In other words, can we understand the cause by its effects? The answer to this is yes, we can, with the following characteristics being surmised:

            • He must be supernatural in nature (as He created time and space).
            • He must be powerful (exceedingly).
            • He must be eternal (self-existent).
            • He must be omnipresent (He created space and is not limited by it).
            • He must be timeless and changeless (He created time).
            • He must be immaterial because He transcends space/physical.
            • He must be personal (the impersonal cannot create personality).
            • He must be infinite and singular as you cannot have two infinites.
            • He must be diverse yet have unity as unity and diversity exist in nature.
            • He must be intelligent (supremely). Only cognitive being can produce cognitive being.
            • He must be purposeful as He deliberately created everything.
            • He must be moral (no moral law can be had without a giver).
            • He must be caring (or no moral laws would have been given).

            These things being true, we now ask if any religion in the world describes such a Creator. The answer to this is yes: the God of the Bible fits this profile perfectly. He is supernatural (Genesis 1:1), powerful (Jeremiah 32:17), eternal (Psalm 90:2), omnipresent (Psalm 139:7), timeless/changeless (Malachi 3:6), immaterial (John 5:24), personal (Genesis 3:9), necessary (Colossians 1:17), infinite/singular (Jeremiah 23:24, Deuteronomy 6:4), diverse yet with unity (Matthew 28:19), intelligent (Psalm 147:4-5), purposeful (Jeremiah 29:11), moral (Daniel 9:14), and caring (1 Peter 5:6-7).

            One last subject to address on the matter of God’s existence is the matter of how justifiable the atheist’s position actually is. Since the atheist asserts the believer’s position is unsound, it is only reasonable to turn the question around and aim it squarely back at him. The first thing to understand is that the claim the atheist makes—“no god,” which is what “atheist” means—is an untenable position to hold from a philosophical standpoint. As legal scholar and philosopher Mortimer Adler says, “An affirmative existential proposition can be proved, but a negative existential proposition—one that denies the existence of something—cannot be proved.” For example, someone may claim that a red eagle exists and someone else may assert that red eagles do not exist. The former only needs to find a single red eagle to prove his assertion. But the latter must comb the entire universe and literally be in every place at once to ensure he has not missed a red eagle somewhere and at some time, which is impossible to do. This is why intellectually honest atheists will admit they cannot prove God does not exist.

            Next, it is important to understand the issue that surrounds the seriousness of truth claims that are made and the amount of evidence required to warrant certain conclusions. For example, if someone puts two containers of lemonade in front of you and says that one may be more tart than the other, since the consequences of getting the more tart drink would not be serious, you would not require a large amount of evidence in order to make your choice. However, if to one cup the host added sweetener but to the other he introduced rat poison, then you would want to have quite a bit of evidence before you made your choice.

            This is where a person sits when deciding between atheism and belief in God. Since belief in atheism could possibly result in irreparable and eternal consequences, it would seem that the atheist should be mandated to produce weighty and overriding evidence to support his position, but he cannot. Atheism simply cannot meet the test for evidence for the seriousness of the charge it makes. Instead, the atheist and those whom he convinces of his position slide into eternity with their fingers crossed and hope they do not find the unpleasant truth that eternity does indeed exist. As Mortimer Adler says, “More consequences for life and action follow from the affirmation or denial of God than from any other basic question.”

            So does belief in God have intellectual warrant? Is there a rational, logical, and reasonable argument for the existence of God? Absolutely. While atheists such as Freud claim that those believing in God have a wish-fulfillment desire, perhaps it is Freud and his followers who actually suffer from wish-fulfillment: the hope and wish that there is no God, no accountability, and therefore no judgment. But refuting Freud is the God of the Bible who affirms His existence and the fact that a judgment is indeed coming for those who know within themselves the truth that He exists but suppress that truth (Romans 1:20). But for those who respond to the evidence that a Creator does indeed exist, He offers the way of salvation that has been accomplished through His Son, Jesus Christ: “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God” (John 1:12-13).

          • Lazy? I’m the one following the evidence. You’re the one who’s sifting out the bits that please you.

          • Matthew 22:37

            No I’m the obedient one willing to allow God to build the mind of Christ in me until I come into agreement with Him fully.

            If you do not accept some fundamental principles about God that can’t happen.

            Who is going to think more critically about God than God Himself. But you dismissed His expressed will, purpose and statements about His nature so you could make up something else about Him.

            If you don’t trust someone how can you form a benevolent relationship with them.

            All atheists do is suggest God does not exist so people will falter in their relationship with God.

            Jesus is coming again though. He mentioned a millenial kingdom in the future.

            If you were comprehending God’s perspective you would not be questioning Jesus coming again.

            You need tutoring on the scriptures but that would require an attitude adjustment on your part before seeking the tutoring.

            Read the Bible on it. The natural man does not understand spiritual matters because they are spiritually discerned.

            If you couldn’t acknowledge Jesus then how could you understand spiritual matters?

            You keep trying to assert scientific authority to erase God’s authority but all that did was promote your own spiritual blindness.

            A working knowledge of the scriptures takes time to construct and you don’t build it on a lie about God’s nature.

          • Hey–I’ve got an idea! Let’s just assume that your conclusion is correct. The nice thing about that is that you win!

          • Matthew 22:37

            Have you lost your mind and all humility?

            Atheism is LIVING A LOGICAL FALLACY.

            Why? Because atheists off of incomplete information have the temerity to try and control other people’s conclusions while they act like they think they are smarter than God.

            May God’s love, joy and peace reign in your heart some day because right now it isn’t.

          • To see the logical fallacy, do we have to presuppose your conclusion?

          • Matthew 22:37

            Why does a Christian have to presuppose your’s?

            If I am going to suppose anyone’s it is going to be a benevolent, holy God’s not something that came from the mind of man.

            Worship the Creator not the created.

            Read Paul Davies. He says materialism’s first major premise (presupposition) is wrong and science itself refutes it.

            And I doubt there is anything wrong with his science credentials any more than with Francis Colllins or Newton or Gallileo or Mendel, etc.

            Go have a look and think about it. Read his “Materialism is Flawed” page on his site and enjoy!

            Have a great day!

          • Huh?? The honest truth seeker doesn’t presuppose any worldview or conclusion! You follow the evidence where it leads.

          • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

            Why does a Christian have to presuppose [sic] your’s?

            But you xtians DO presuppose our worldview…in every way except where your deluded religion is concerned.

            Otherwise you’d be hurt / harmed / dead from ignoring blatant evidence of danger(s).

          • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

            Why? Because atheists off of incomplete information have the temerity to try and control other people’s conclusions

            Pure projection.

            See:
            – The Crusades
            – The Inquisition
            – Conquest of the Americas

            And I’m happily at peace now, thank you…MUCH moreso than when I was still trapped in the xtian delusion.

          • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

            Davies has a proof of God section as well.

            Then where is Davies Nobel Science Prize?

            Why hasn’t he claimed the JREF supernatural ‘evidence’ prize?

          • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

            THAT’S a specious excuse for lazy dogmatism if I ever saw one…

          • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

            Many Christians KNOW God exists.

            How many of these xtians pay for catastrophe insurance and look both ways before they cross the road? How many test a ladder before trusting their weight to it? How many drink water from an untested source?

            Not much faith there if you ask me.

          • Jack Wellman

            If I had a surgeon and a guy who claimed to be a surgeon, there claims would be very important to me. Instead of complaining about Jesus’ being the one and only way (John 14:6), be thankful that there is at least “a way.”

          • Which doesn’t answer my question.

            Thankful? What for? Jesus’s salvation is a pretend solution to a pretend problem.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Bob if you do not acknowledge Jesus then how can you withstand Satan’s wiles? You will never learn how to put on the whole armor of God or how to escape Satan’s foothold.

            You are messing around in philosophy and evolution every day. All your concentration is given over to understanding worldly matters so there is nothing left for you to focus on God’s perspective.

            If you don’t hear God out then the devil stays your slave master.

            And if he can meddle with your mind making you refuse to identify with and comprehend God’s position then that is a win for him but a loss for you.

            God’s children have to love and respect God for Him to raise them His way.

            Read the patriarchs. Abraham always followed God’s way.

            God knows who is following Him and who isn’t.

            Cain didn’t follow God’s ways but God put a mark on him to spare his life.

            So God is merciful.

            I don’t know how anyone learns obedience except by example though some people are more naturally obedient to God than others.

            This world likes to teach people rebellion. You see a lot of teens going into teen rebellion, too.

            But why rebel against a benevolent authority figure. It is sin in the flesh nature plus worldly influenes causing that and the devil is a liar and manipulator. If he gains access to your thoughtlife and he will sometimes then he can manipulate you into considering evil. The next thing you know you are acting evilly i.e. sinning.

            Look at Hitler. He destroyed his own nation and millions of others before turning the gun on himself and people still argue today about whether or not they found his dead body. That is Satanic evil at it’s highest level. Hitler played around in the occult. The occult gives the devil an opening. Remember King Saul in the Bible. He fell from God’s grace when he consulted the witch of Endor.

            You be careful on here. There are witches and pagans all over Patheos and you are an undedicated temple who doesn’t have Jesus to keep the devil out or even know how to put on God’s Armor.

            Satan is the author of confusion. One of the evil spirits in the bible is the spirit of confusion.

            So you appeal to God for discernment so your spiritual blindness can be dispelled and you accept Jesus.

            If Satan keeps you in the dark then you stay lost and cannot go home with the Good Shepherd to God.

            Have a blessed day! I hope you help Jesus beat the devil by giving your life to him. God loves everyone all the time y’know.

          • And if you don’t acknowledge [pick some other holy man] the how can you withstand the wiles of [pick some other evil being]?

            Your argument vanishes once your presupposition that you’re right goes away.

          • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

            You’re the Baghdad Bob of xtianity.

            Telling us to unilaterally disarm when you’re on the brink of devastating defeat.

            Funny, in a sad sort of way.

          • Matthew 22:37

            If you have decided to ignore me, Bob, you should read Glimpse of the Devil by M. Scott Peck and ask yourself what might happen to a person who tolerates evil in his thoughtlife. Does it give the devil an opening to mislead and control him?

            I think it does because my mind has been strong against hundreds of atheists’ reasonings. I never give Satan a foothold by adopting unbelievers’ thinking.

            Why reject Jesus the stronger man able to kick out Satan the strong man ( in scripture ) in one’s thoughtlife?

            I say this because I see that girl with a personality disorder is still on your blog posting profanity and insults and generally disrespecting people who visit your blog on God’s behalf.

            Do you think she lost her fight with the devil in her thoughtlife and now lets the devil turn her against people like a man setting a dog on someone? Why does she react like that? Like someone possessed.

            Read Peck’s book. Some people can be helped to escape possession while some cannot.

            Have a great day! I hope you resolve your issues and get free from the devil. Jesus Christ came to destroy the works of the devil.

            So getting free of the devil’s control of one’s thought life must be really freeing for some people though I am not a convert from atheism to know for sure. But when one acknowledges Jesus as per Romans 10:9 doesn’t he escape the devil when Christ forgives his sin?

          • Rom. 5:18-19 makes clear that my sins are forgiven.

            See you in heaven.

          • Matthew 22:37

            See you, Bob.

            I don’t think a lot of atheists think independently and critically about spiritual matters because they took offense rather than let the Holy Spirit convict them.

            When you deny that sin exists and refuse to let God get personal with you and correct sin then who can you blame but yourself. Unless Satan is at work behind it and you are letting him get away with it.

            No wonder unbelievers’ spiritual understanding is blunted and they keep losing their tempers and getting frustrated. Sin has consequences.

          • You keep presupposing your worldview and you keep being clueless about how obnoxious that is.

            Bye.

          • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

            I think your hyper focus on evidence is sabotaging you spiritually.

            Then YOU should stop looking both ways before crossing the street, and *start* jumping off buildings because you don’t believe in gravity.

          • bayhuntr

            The character Sheldon in the big bang theory, his attitude has no bearing on whether he’s right or wrong. Just whether or not people don’t like him, which is a rather shallow perspective.

            People that have looked at research? They tend to give a link to the research. People that haven’t? Simply say go look at it.

            For example, I have looked at the research below is a link some, it’s obvious that there is a biological difference between the mind of a person of faith and a mind of an atheist, by saying biological it means they were wired that way by whatever created them. Weather created by God or by evolution, it wasn’t within their control. It’s understandable that evolution we create different brains, perhaps you’d like to explain why a God would create some people with mines designed not to believe in God and others to believe in God?

            Quite often I here “Why do atheist refuse God?” It is a statement out of ignorance, atheists no more refuse gods, than they refuse leprechauns. For them, neither exist, there is no evidence for them, the only way they could except gods is to pretend to. And in many cultures that’s exactly what they have done through history, out of fear of being brutalized.

            http://blog.al.com/wire/2014/01/religious_brains_function_diff.html

            One interesting aspect of the brain study, is that when they monitor the brains of a religious person and there asked about religion, the part of the brain that is most active is where fear comes from.

          • Matthew 22:37

            People have the ability to google and locate the info.

            It’s not hard to put in “the brain and atheism” into the search engine and locate your own research.

            Some people want only certain classes of evidence or peer reviewed evidence so let them get their own.

            Why do all the work then run into someone’s criticism and objection which might come from an unobjective bias?

            Let them get their own evidence if that is THEIR requirement.

            A theist can check Romans 1. God said He can be known by His creation. His creation exhibits order.

          • bayhuntr

            Yes, we understand, you don’t have sources. All of your excuses are standard.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Go check Sasha Baron Cohen’s research.

          • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

            You’re a pseudo-intellectual idiot.

            And you won’t even bother to examine your posts to understand why, I’ll wager.

          • Matthew 22:37

            And go read the study that shows religion is not child abuse.

            Dawkins ignored the sociological study done on it in his own backyard to rant that religion is child abuse in his book The God Delusion.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Theists don’t believe in leprechauns. They don’t hate them or attribute evil motives to them.

            Atheists do believe in God but suppress the knowledge of Him. They are always on internet blogs criticizing and hating on Him and projecting their own false interpretations onto scripture.

            Do you hate on someone that doesn’t exist? Is that rational?

            I guess they have to keep Him suppressed in their own minds and consciences so they can be masters of their own fate although humans do not control their own circumstances entirely. If they did they wouldn’t build alliances, wouldn’t need business contracts and wouldn’t buy so many types of insurance.

          • bayhuntr

            Theorist do believe in leprechauns but suppress the knowledge of them. They are always on internet blogs criticizing and hating on them and projecting their own false interpretations onto leprechaundim.

            That was fun, I can understand that form of debate, it’s so easy.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Well have a good day. Done here.

            I gave you the idea. I gave you a lead, too. Sasha Cohen’s work.

            When atheists engage theists alot of them start raging as their prefrontal cortex’s close down. That is the part of the brain responsible for self control.

            So many like the atheist pud ( a frequenter of this blog) on the Net just lose it.

            No self control at all. Simply bury theists under a sea of out of control invectitude and profanity and that is not normal behavior.
            There is nothing well mannered or gentlemanly about it at all.

          • bayhuntr

            I’m sure it’s not missed on most reasonable people, that you like to stereotype. Considering I’ve had a conversation with you and have not lost my temper called you names, and you then explain to me how people like me do?
            It’s rare for an atheist to commit an atrocity based on being an atheist, it’s very common in this world for people to commit atrocities based on religion. Even knowing that, I know most Christians are decent people.
            Unfortunately, religious extremism has become a place for the worst of society to hide in plain sight. What is fortunate, Christians are starting to fight back against them, I consider them my friends and my allies and they feel the same about me. Religious extremism doesn’t just kill everything around it, it will eventually kill it’s self.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Well sorry if you felt that way. You may be a weak atheist.

            Atheism ranges from a gamut of weak to strong atheism. At the strongest end are the militant atheists who some classify as anti-theists.

            I must admit you are more mellow than pud is. There seem to be a majority of the anti-theist type posting online.

            pud regularly calls theists lunatics on this blog.

            I would still separate myself from the atheist propaganda if I were you and learn everything on my own if I were you.

            In your current situation it seems rare for an atheist to commit a crime. But it happened quite a lot under atheist leftists in various totalitarian states especially under communism.

            I would never get too complacent though. If there is one thing history has taught people it is that economic and political and social circumstances can switch over time.

            Once again, sorry for offending you but there are a lot of people who seem to refuse to separate from their group and think for themselves.

            I believe I was born a believer. Though my religious indoctrination was quite checkered and late.

            None of the atheist stereotypes about believers fit me.

            If you can find a Christian of good character to study the scriptures along with then try it out.

            Many atheists regularly engage in eisegesis so they don’t have a good grasp of God’s perspective.

            If their interpretation is unholy they are wrong. Everything in the Bible must be interpreted in accordance with God’s nature and one of His attributes is holiness.

            If you have not got reverence for God and the gift of faith then you could falter in understanding Him.

            Seriously, why would God entrust Himself to someone who fails to love and respect Him?

            Would you entrust yourself to a person who failed to love and respect you?

            I know some people would but a discerning person wouldn’t and God is the most discerning Person in the universe.

            Have a great day!

          • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

            BTW, I think your Speech-To-Text engine needs a little retraining…while I agree with your points.

          • bayhuntr

            Even in a rush, I should double check… Thanks.

          • bayhuntr

            But on the serious note, I understand your need to make the claim that atheist do believe in, not just God, but your God, otherwise your entire believe system fails.
            The claim holds as much water as me claiming that all theist do believe in leprechauns.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Go read the Bible. There are repercussions to suppressing a knowledge of God in your mind.

            Go read Romans 1.

            Did you really think your limited human intelligence was greater than God’s?

            That’s arrogance. Rather like Sheldon Cooper thinking he’s the greatest intellect on Earth. Maybe His ego couldn’t handle knowing that God has the greatest intellect in the universe. That’s one of the reasons people follow God. Because they don’t build false idols to their own logic/reason in their own minds like atheists seem to do.

            Strange atheists exalt logic. Totally ignoring perception, intuition, gut instinct and revelation.

            Einstein said:

            The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
            Albert Einstein

            Imagination is more important than knowledge.
            Albert Einstein

            Here is Einstein waffling but in the ball park:

            I believe in intuitions and inspirations…I sometimes FEEL that I am right. I do not KNOW that I am.
            Albert Einstein

            I think a Christian can rest assured that God knows. The Bible was given as foundational knowledge so we could know certain key things about Him.

            But if you reject God’s revelation then you can attempt to remain knowledgeless about Him.

            It won’t get the unbeliever off the hook though. God already gave proof of His existence through general revelation.

            Have a blessed day!

          • Matthew 22:37

            The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. We will not solve the problems of the world from the same level of thinking we were at when we created them. More than anything else, this new century demands new thinking: We must change our materially based analyses of the world around us to include broader, more multidimensional perspectives.

            Albert Einstein

            Man, surrounded by facts, permitting himself no surprise, no intuitive flash, no great hypothesis, no risk, is in a locked cell. Ignorance cannot seal the mind and imagination more securely.

            Albert Einstein

          • bayhuntr

            This statement is not Albert Einstein‘s:
            “Man, surrounded by facts, permitting himself no surprise, no intuitive flash, no great hypothesis, no risk, is in a locked cell. Ignorance cannot seal the mind and imagination more securely.”

            Lillian Smith (1897-1966) wrote it.

            This is an example of one of two things, you’re very flawed person who has no problem quoting things without verifying their authenticity, or you know it’s a lie and you don’t care. Either way it throws even more doubt on everything else you have claimed, especially your “go look for brain research” claim.

          • Matthew 22:37

            I think you had better go read:

            RICHARD DAWKINS’ ANTI-SCIENTIFIC HYPOCRISY
            October 24, 2011 Tom Gilson on ThinkingChristian dot net.

            Dawkins rants about the religious training of children. Dawkins and many other atheists claim it is child abuse but it isn’t according to an official sociological study done on it.

            Dawkins ranted on this in his book The God Delusion starting propaganda on this topic among the atheist community which they repeat over and over all over the world on message boards.

            All the while Dawkins neglected to find and read the results in this huge study done by Christian Smith that contradicts his opinion.

            So Dawkins isn’t as concerned about the evidence as he claims.

            He doesn’t want to challenge himself. He doesn’t want his false beliefs over turned.

          • bayhuntr

            Anything that starts with Richard Dawkins anti-scientific… No, I’m not gonna bother to go read, it’s propaganda written by Christianist. It might sound clever to extremists, but in the real world, it’s just obvious irony, a religious extremist talking about Scientific accuracy. I’m also not going to go poking around a site that has an agenda to indoctrinate, to find the information.

            The reason you haven’t posted any specifics about your claim, is because you have no argument for them, you probably don’t understand them yourself. You have a problem that you can’t resolve so somebody like Christian Smith whites nine cents so you tend to answer it. It’s not Dockins it’s you. Again the reason you have to make stuff up to support your ideology, says everything.

            The problem comes down to, when people believe in an Infallible deity, they read words that, in their judgment comes from that deity, therefore in their judgment, their words become infallible. You actually think you’re infallible by proxy. The irony, you never catch on that your judgment is flawed. It is your judgment that lead you to everything you believe.
            It’s like a mental disorder.

          • bayhuntr

            What a surprise, it turns out your other quote is also not true.

            “The origin seems to actually be Metaphoric Mind: A Celebration of Creative Consciousness by Bob Samples (1976):

            “Albert Einstein called the intuitive or metaphoric mind a sacred gift. He added that the rational mind was a faithful servant. It is paradoxical that in the context of modern life we have begun to worship the servant and defile the divine.” (p. 26)

            Only the first part is what Samples claims is from Einstein, though he gives no source or citation and it fits with nothing that is recorded of Einstein’s quotes. The second part is Samples’ own observation. The two parts have been conflated into a “quote” of Einstein, when there is actually no evidence he said the first part and the second isn’t even attributed to him in the original source.

            This “quote” is fake.”

            In the light of day, truth wins.

          • Matthew 22:37

            I am not sure what you are talking about.

            I took the quotes from a quote site.

            Did a quote site go out of it’s way to misattribute quotes?

            Go read A-Z quotes. I have no idea who Samples is.

          • bayhuntr

            Dude, I’m not interested in why you posted misquotes, or how you came to them. The point is, they’re wrong. If you relied on the site, thinking it was accurate, it simply demonstrates a lack of judgment.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Obviously my entire belief system doesn’t depend on making that claim.

            Many theists don’t make that claim because they don’t read the Bible or missed Romans 1.

            Their belief in God didn’t fail for thousands of years without knowing God’s explanation in Romans 1.

            A true Christian’s belief rests safely on the rock of Jesus Christ.

            Your acknowledgment or failure to acknowledge Jesus Christ has no bearing on my beliefs whatsoever.

            I am a separate individual from you and capable of extricating myself from your manmade error and confusion and thinking for myself.

            But it is nice to have the explanation from God.

            I always tell people to be seekers. At least then you are actively establishing truth for yourself. You are not doing that debating. Instead of locating truth you are busy correcting errors all the time because of all the misassumptions and atheist propaganda.

            The atheist evolutionist Michael Ruse says Dawkins’ reasoning is embarassing.

            He’d probably tell you to read The Dawkins Delusion or some other scholar expounding on the New Atheist logic errors.

            I scanned Thomas Crean’s work once doing just that. That Catholic priest took Dawkins’ logic to the woodshed pointing out a lot of his logical errors.

          • bayhuntr

            Dude, I’m not trying to change your mind you have every right to believe whatever religion you want to. This is a free nation and I intend to keep it that way.
            I simply want to voice the facts about the brain an atheist, you’re spreading misinformation, at best, lies at the worst.
            You can claim you have read the Bible, I tend to doubt it from experience you probably only read the version that suits you and you’ve never studied Greek and Hebrew or the other books that were not included in the Bible, that just as easily could’ve been, if men had made other decisions.

            All I can suggest, if you have to spread misinformation to push your ideology, there’s probably something wrong with your ideology, if truth was important, you would research and make sure what you’re saying is true. I would even argue, more so if you’re following the teachings of the Jesus Christ, I don’t believe he existed, but the words that were put to him are many ways, enlightening including his views of so righteousness and dishonesty.

          • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

            Theists don’t believe in leprechauns.

            Atheists don’t believe in ‘god’ or ‘gods’.

            Same thing, whether you like it or not.

          • Matthew 22:37

            For your information.

            I suggest reading “RICHARD DAWKINS’ ANTI-SCIENTIFIC HYPOCRISY”
            October 24, 2011 by Tom Gilson on ThinkingChristian dot net.

            It seems Richard Dawkins is willing to ignore research when it suits his purposes.

            His allegation that religion is child abuse was disproven by a massive sociological study before he started propagandizing that fallacious idea in his book The God Delusion.

            The article contains more details.

          • bayhuntr

            Whether indoctrination is child abuse or not, is a matter of opinion. I do know for a fact that children the turn out to be gay after being told by their parents that gay is evil is child abuse. Perhaps if your empathy wasn’t diminish by believing that burning people alive is a joyous thing, you’d understand.

          • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

            *Gravity* is KNOWN.

            Go ahead and try ignoring it and see what happens to you.

            ‘god’ (s)? Nope, just a subjective if shared delusion.

          • Jack Wellman

            Not sure who is marking your comments as spam. I do not do that to anyone unless it is real spam (like commercial links), and don’t do this, even to those who are antagonistic. Sorry that happened to you my friend.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Thanks, Pastor. I know you respect free thinking and freedom of speech because the Gospel is communicated by truth telling.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Have you read Battlefield of the Mind by Joyce Meyers, Pastor?

            More people should read it then maybe they would put more trust in God and less in the mind of man.

          • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

            Seriously, Bob. I have provided evidence in the past but never found an atheist mind open enough to consider it.

            Links or it didn’t happen.

          • Matthew 22:37

            I don’t believe the evidence demand is sincere either. It could be a learned cop out to soothe the lazy unbeliever’s ego.

            Why? Because people like to demand miracle demonstrations today but miracles were given in the Old Testament and the pagans still refused to acknowledge God.

            Christ performed miracles but people like the Pharisees still refused to acknowledge him.

            So I no longer find evidence demands sincere.

            These evidence demanders should have been sincere seekers before letting doubt cloud their heads.

            If you want the truth then try establishing it for yourself. It is really too important to leave to anybody else. Particularly in a world of deception where people like to shift goal posts.

            This is the individual’s own soul and destiny and they are too sloppy and lazy in their thinking to establish the truth for themselves or trust their own mind’s value judgments?

            I said enough on this. Have a blessed day!

          • I don’t believe the evidence demand is sincere either.

            You’re questioning my sincerity? Reread my previous comment and tell me what fraction you ignored. If you have no answer to my challenge, you need to see if that exposes a weakness in your worldview instead of just ignoring stuff that makes you feel bad.

            It could be a learned cop out to soothe the lazy unbeliever’s ego.

            Yeah, that’s what I say to people who don’t adopt whatever religion I pick out of a hat. You don’t believe in Xenu? That’s clearly a character flaw of yours that you’re just offering cop outs.

            Why? Because people like to demand miracles but miracles were given in the Old Testament

            They’re stories. Seriously, how old are you? They’re just words on paper. Maybe they’re history and maybe they’re not, but you need to be skeptical.

            Do you believe the miracle claims in other holy books?

            So I no longer find evidence demands sincere.

            That’s good. Does that make you feel better? Maybe sit down with a nice cup of tea and forget about those challenges to your worldview you can’t answer.

            If you want the truth then try establishing it for yourself. It is really too important to leave to anybody else.

            Surprisingly, I agree with you. The buck stops here. I evaluate supernatural claims, and so far none seem plausible.

            Particularly in a world of deception where people like to shift goal posts.

            You were going to point out where I’d done this, remember?

          • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

            Why?

            per your ‘bible’, ‘Doubting Thomas’ got evidence.

            Why is your ‘god’ too impotent / lazy today to provide the same?

          • Matthew 22:37

            Chesterton’s reply:

            “The vulgar modern argument used against religion, and lately against common decency, would be absolutely fatal to any idea of liberty. It is perpetually said that because there are a hundred religions claiming to be true, it is therefore impossible that one of them should really be true. The argument would appear on the face of it to be illogical, if anyone nowadays troubled about logic. It would be as reasonable to say that because some people thought the earth was flat, and others (rather less incorrectly) imagined it was round, and because anybody is free to say that it is triangular or hexagonal, or a rhomboid, therefore it has no shape at all; or its shape can never be discovered; and, anyhow, modern science must be wrong in saying it is an oblate spheroid. The world must be some shape, and it must be that shape and no other; and it is not self-evident that nobody can possibly hit on the right one. What so obviously applies to the material shape of the world equally applies to the moral shape of the universe. The man who describes it may not be right, but it is no argument against his rightness that a number of other people must be wrong.”

            ― G.K. Chesterton

          • It is perpetually said that because there are a hundred religions claiming to be true, it is therefore impossible that one of them should really be true.

            Not what I’ve ever said.

            The world must be some shape

            Right, but the parallel statement about religion—there must be some religion that’s correct—doesn’t follow. They could all be wrong.

          • Matthew 22:37

            I am just posting it because I think it came up earlier. I used to run into that false assumption all the time that because there are so many religions that all are necessarily wrong.

            Chesterton explains the problem with thinking that way and it is quite common among some people.

          • But you see now why the parallel fails, right? Chesterton’s quote doesn’t engage with the issue; it fails.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Maybe to you.

            I am done arguing. I need to devote more of my time to study.

            Have a blessed day.

          • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

            also known as ‘throwing sand in the bull’s eyes” to get away from a dilemma.

        • Jack Wellman

          I am so glad someone shared Christ with me…while in prison! We must share Christ. It takes a person of God with the Spirit of God and the Word of God to make the children of God for the glory of God…so, it’s all for His glory, but God uses men and women as a means to save some. What about Philip, the evangelist in the Book of Acts? He was not apostle and he evangelized.

  • pud

    It’s the great “omission” because people aren’t so stupid anymore and are unwilling to subscribe to your superstitious nonsense.

    • Kevin711

      Hey a$$hole, you get off trolling Christian sites? Spineless. Can I pm you?

      • pud

        Why would you want to “PM” a trolling asshole like me?

        • Kevin711

          I want to know where you can be located or post in public

          • pud

            Is that so? Want to come kick my ass? Sorry, I don’t do religious lunatics or psychotics..cheers!

          • Kevin711

            You are gutless. You post your bs hiding behind a goofy little name…are you afraid to say these things in public wimpy?

          • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

            Hey, Kevvie-poo.

            Try this…come to CT, to the intersection of Rtes. 102 & 7, and let it be known you’re looking for the atheist. I’ll find out and come to meet you.

            More than that I won’t say.

            I’m calling you a gutless lazy pissant who won’t dare to come.

        • Kevin711

          Hey spineless, post your name and location chickenshitttt.

          • pud

            You first

          • Kevin711

            What are you afraid of ?

          • pud

            What are you afraid of? Are you spineless?

          • Kevin711

            You are afraid!!!!! Ha you freakin moron!

          • pud

            I’m still waiting too…what’s the hold up?

          • Kevin711

            So you’re a little dweeb who likes to spew his unhinged hate on a group of people but has no guts to say it in public. You are a little dork with no courage, only malice. Miserable little twit!

          • pud

            What’s your name and address? I’ll PM you. Always happy to engage a fine christian like yourself

          • Kevin711

            Dude, I asked you! You keep turning this around…man up

          • pud

            I asked you too…man up!

          • Kevin711

            Awww the christian obsessed man child still squirming? What up blubbering baby, you still mad at mommy and daddy?

          • pud

            Shouldn’t you be begging your invisible sky daddy for forgiveness now?

          • Kevin711

            What the hell are you babbling about dickhead? Sky daddy? Forgiveness? Huh?

          • pud

            Wow…you’re doing lots of sinning today! Better double down when you babble in your head to gentle jesus meek and mild!

          • Kevin711

            Lemme guess you’re some fundamentalist reject …still can’t get on with life …pathetic

          • pud

            Is 711 where you work? Trying for assistant manager soon?

          • Kevin711

            Lame, but hey who cares if I did work there…

          • pud

            So you do? I admire your high standards and accomplishment! Maybe you’ll get your GED soon? All things are possible with the lord!

          • Kevin711

            Oh gee whiz that was real clever and man o man did that hurt! What’s the matter bible thumper?

          • Kevin711

            Come on angry little “billy graham”. Little ex bible thumping baby is mad

          • pud

            Ok..bored now…bye!

          • Kevin711

            Bwahaha ha ha ha

          • Kevin711

            See ya chicken man! Spineless little man.

          • Kevin711

            Enjoy your pathetic existence, although it’s miserable.

          • pud

            Thank you! Say hello to invisible undetectable jesus and the devil for me!

          • Kevin711

            Hey loser, sorry it didn’t work out for you. You’re obviously a fanatic who has gone to extremes in life. Most likely a bible thumping nut who got caught as a deviant.

          • Kevin711

            So now you know the truth about yourself regardless of your childish replies, you know you are spineless and are a nothing. You folded when called out!!!!!

          • pud

            Seems that you’re rather reluctant to reveal your name and address ..aren’t you going to man up?

          • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

            Take a look at theist vs. atheist inspired violence, and you’ll understand the reticence.

          • Kevin711

            I’m waiting….come on dude man up!

          • bayhuntr

            I’m not supporting his rash comment, but of course he wouldn’t post his personal information, religions around the world have shown how violent they can be, they just call it honor killings or something to make them sound better.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Atheists have shown how violent they can be, too.

          • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

            Just like you have(EN’T, you chickenshit)??

      • Matthew 22:37

        Be sure to google and read philosophy of science dot com. Especially the proof of God section.

        No need for fisticuffs when you can show them that materialism’s first major premise is wrong.

        Check out the “Materialism is Flawed” argument on that site.

        Paul Davies is a former atheist.

        Peace be with you!

      • Matthew 22:37

        Kevin, atheists are living a logical fallacy.

        They are living a lie but defending the lie hard.

        God is not going to let anyone live a lie and get away with it that’s why they display so much social backwardness. See Romans 1.

        You just let your life prove them wrong by being all sweetness and light.

        • Kevin711

          Thank you

  • Matthew 22:37

    One last thing, Bob, if you are reading because I have you on block for a lack of critical thinking.

    How are you qualified to teach on the scriptures without the God given spiritual gift of teaching?

    Who do you think thinks more critically than God?

    Strive to get your heart, mind, will, conscience, emotions and will in line (in agreement) with God, Bob and maybe some day He will give you the gift of faith.

    If you are His character assassin why would He reveal anything to you personally?

    Have a blessed day Bob! I am sure you are quite a brilliant man on other subjects. But not on religion.
    When your heart, mind, will, emotions and being are firmly dedicated to being out of alignment with God then how can you receive revelation?

    Peace Be With You and May His Grace Abound To You!

  • Kevin711

    I have come to the conclusion that these arrogant atheists who troll are from the devil himself, yet their sinful pride prevents their darkened souls from this realization. I admit going over the top with these snakes , because I’m fully aware that they play upon the turn the other cheek type Christians and I will not stand by either in person or in print while they insult the believer of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ! When push comes to shove I will fight!

    • Sure, that’s one interpretation of the facts, a rather silly one. Are there others that you should consider?

      • Kevin711

        Care to elaborate on your vague passive/ aggressive comment? Context please!!!!

        • Why? Is there something confusing?

          You said:

          I have come to the conclusion that these arrogant atheists who troll are from the devil himself

          That sounds like a ridiculous conclusion. Perhaps there are better ones.

          • Kevin711

            I guess you’re incapable. Oh well continue on your irrelevant way. Bye bye.

          • Is that your way of saying that you have no rebuttal? Maybe next time you can just come out and say that.

          • Kevin711

            Rebuttal? To what? I asked you a question genius, your ego is quite fragile…or dementia perhaps…oh well

          • You said, “I have come to the conclusion that these arrogant atheists who troll are from the devil himself.” This puzzles me. Perhaps you could justify this conclusion.

          • Kevin711

            Justify my conclusion? No, I don’t have to justify anything to you. Seriously.

          • What a pleasure it’s been to talk with you! Thanks for your time.

          • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

            /s

          • Well, I didn’t think that was necessary, but technically, yes.

          • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

            You misspelled ‘irreVEREnt’

            😉

  • Kevin711

    Once again thank you for standing up to evil!

    • Matthew 22:37

      Thank you for your support. I tried talking sense to these atheist for 16 years on various boards online because I am the overly helpful type but you can’t help people who refuse to be helped.

      So just avoid them when possible.

      They can seek God and His correction on their own but don’t let them disrupt or sabotage you because that is the intent of these ones who like to “argue”.
      Debate or argue is just a code word for sabotage where they attempt to override your will to make you think like them.

      pud the atheist admitted he intends to “deprogram” Christians.

      Which is insane.

      You don’t deprogram people with better ethics than your own.

      Have a blessed day! Just thought I would clue you in if these bad attitudes are irritating you online.

      Don’t take their bait.

    • Matt 22 gave you some advice. I’ll give some as well.

      Lots of atheists are happy to engage in thoughtful debate with Christians. You’ve just got to give them an argument. Matt likes to presuppose he’s correct which, as perhaps you can imagine, is obnoxious. Neither you nor Matt would appreciate my saying, “Well, since we’re going to assume I’m right…” and when he (in effect) says the same thing, he gets a poor response.

      Have evidence and thoughtful arguments prepared and offer them to the atheist interested in discussion. Of course, if argument isn’t your goal, then don’t bother.

    • Matthew 22:37

      Kevin, someone probably an atheist is spamming my posts to erase and control them or possibly get even with me for standing up for God.

      Yesterday, I posted an archaeological work explaining the evidential discoveries made by Albright and Ramsay.

      Here it is:
      http://www.bibletoday.com/ebook/Archaeology.pdf

      Be sure to point out to these atheists that like to advance evolution as evidence against the existence of God that the science of archaeology confirms Him.

      And when they ad hominem attack the source of that work remind them that ad hominem attacks are a logical fallacy that they are committing.

      Either they examine all the evidence including archaeology’s or they are serving evil confirmation bias.

      If the devil does not exist then why are they serving an evil confirmation bias?

      Have a blessed day. Don’t get angry with them though. Just point out their fallacies and let the truth speak for itself.

      Evidence cherry pickers! As if Christians don’t have evidence. The best evidence though is Jesus’ work on the Cross.

      In all these so called debates there is no actual evidence inspection going on.
      It’s all evil confirmation bias that good Christians discussing the Bible with atheists are surfing.

      • Kevin711

        Don’t engage these people…block them on Disqus. Feed the hungry not those who are full of themselves.

        • HairyEyedWordBombThrower

          So you’re only going for the gullible suckers, I see….

  • The right of freedom of speech (where that applies, and a blog isn’t one of those places) is guaranteed by the US Constitution, not by Jesus.

    • Matthew 22:37

      Well I think God wants me to insist on freedom of speech for everyone everywhere because He owns the whole world by right of creation and doesn’t like people attempting to shut up His spirit of prophecy at work in people.

      If I don’t insist on freedom of speech then how can I expose the devil who has a worldwide network trying to control people’s thoughtlives.

      Jesus beat the devil on the Cross and empowers His people but the devil doesn’t want people to know this.

      They might get spiritually empowered and rebel against his attempts to own them and work in their lives.

      Remember if you get in a fix in this world you can always repent and call on Jesus. Then sit back and watch events play out….be patient and persevere….things can take weeks, months or years but isn’t resolving a spiritual problem worth the time investment.

      Spiritual problems are tougher than some mathematical or scientific problems but Jesus solves them for people every day.

      Keep bathing your mind in the Bible which is God’s logic until you absorb it and stop doubting God’s power.

      He does everything in His timing and knows you better than you know yourself.

      Didn’t He enable Moses when Moses had a fear of public speaking.

      The first step is listening to God ahead of the world and that requires obedience leading to agreement.

      Why let the voice and words of spiritual failures impede your understanding of what God has to say. That’s a work of the devil.

      Have a blessed day. You work too hard at this stuff not to comprehend God some day but you may need a little help in speeding up your comprehension.

      God is the Great Spiritual Motivator, isn’t He? So let Him kick the devil out of your thoughtlife.

      • You’re co-opting Western values. I approve, of course, but let’s not imagine that the Ten Commandments (say) is where we get freedom of speech, religion, press, and assembly. That’s the Ten Amendments.

        • Matthew 22:37

          I think free speech is closely related to having a free mind. I am still working out all the implications of that.

          But we all have separate consciousness and there can be interior and exterior influences on our consciousness.

          An atheist the other day said there is no subjective reality only objective which I think psychology refutes.

          Reality and consciousness is a very complex topic but there have been a lot of cases of people’s reality being manipulated or distorted in this world by family, circumstances, trauma, etc.

          God gives the best picture of reality and He allows for the correction of people’s interior life.

          Learning from God is sometimes like receiving CBT. Most people some of the time are going to need some CBT and God gives it to people for free in the Bible. There is no copyright on the Bible. God gives His knowledge away for free.

          When you think about it He may be the only person in the world who cannot be bought or manipulated.

          • Be careful about where you give the credit. Western ideals–democracy, free speech, freedom of religion, and so on–didn’t come from the Bible.

          • Matthew 22:37

            But they came from the human mind and God made that.

          • So God didn’t do anything that we can actually point to. Just humans.

            Humans created vaccines, antibiotics, anesthesia. Humans almost eliminated famine. And so on–humans did everything.

            So let’s give the thanks to God. Because some reason.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Well think what you want, Bob. If your mind is made up why argue?

            Arguing is for people who want to walk their mental dog. I don’t think it does anything to develop one’s spiritual mind.

            Faith is a bit like intuition. You can just know God exists just like you can intuitively know the answer to some things without knowing all the reasons for drawing the right conclusion.

            The only answer we have regarding the spiritual is God’s explanation and one must take it or leave it.

            You can leave it if you like but I must take it because I have always believed in God and the Bible is the best and most coherent worldview and explanation in my opinion.

            Have a blessed day! Sorry for even implying I wanted to argue. Why argue? You have a your own mind given to you by God. Paul used to persuade people in the Book of Acts he didn’t argue with those obstinately against the Gospel cf. Acts 19:8-10.

            You can only help people to understand God’s position that want to be helped.

          • My mind isn’t made up. Unfortunately, yours is. I’m happy to consider new arguments and evidence for God.

            I have no use for faith. Trust is enough.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Well my mind should be made up. It is set on the good.

            Why would I let some reverse my thought process to set it on evil?

          • There’s your problem–you’re closed minded.

          • Matthew 22:37

            I am set on God’s holy way. Doing the will of God so Christ considers me his family.

            I should be closeminded. I have a lot to lose.

            You have nothing to lose because you already lost it.

          • Matthew 22:37

            Putting you on block Bob. To remind myself not to help atheists.

            If they need help in understanding God then they can seek it on their own.

            Am I going to argue you into help that you desperately need?

            The way society reacts to atheism ought to tell you that something is wrong with it.
            Sorry, you weren’t socially intelligent enough to pick up on the cues.

            I am a highly sensitive person but just decided there is no reason for me to subject my sensitivity to people who lack it or who have blunted their own.

            I just have to be choosier about who I talk to.

            Everyone has the capability to be a seeker but you cannot force a person to exercise a capability.

            Seeking requires a good heart motive.

            Cya.

          • Seeking requires a good heart motive.

            Maybe that’s what you don’t have.

            I follow the evidence. It works for me–maybe something to think about.

          • MR

            I think Matthew 22 instinctively knows that if he followed the evidence his current narrative would unravel for him. That’s why he can’t address the questions posed to him about his own beliefs, why he must hide behind “faith,” make excuses when the evidence suggests otherwise, demonize you and atheists in general, and why he ultimately resorts to blocking those who dare to shine a stark light on the weaknesses in his arguments. He’d rather stick his finger in his ears and duck into his bubble. He’s not a seeker, he’s a hider.

          • That sounds right. For some, that subconscious doubt rises to the surface. Perhaps Matt 22 has his so suppressed that it doesn’t bother him.

    • Matthew 22:37

      Spiritual questions are hard to understand Bob because we are all in the midst of change and some people don’t like change and some people refuse to accept the truth about themselves.

      God is the one who solves spiritual problems that affect spiritual and social development. So the more spiritually literate follow His methods as outlined in the Bible.

      How could one get born again using the scientific method?

      You have to follow Jesus directions to get born again. See John 3.

      Science is not going to teach you God’s way. It is too busy dismissing God and His ways.

      Start thinking out of the box.

      Why would you settle for a man’s thinking and limitations when God can redefine you and make a whole new person out of you if you are sincere with Him.

      Faith is motivational. Don’t let this world demotivate you. That sets you up for spiritual failure.

      God adopts all the people born again into His very own family. Study the glorious doctrine of adoption. It’s my favorite doctrine. Don’t get hung up on justification.

    • Matthew 22:37

      Do you know what Astronomer Royal Martin Rees said about Stephen Hawkings views on religion:

      “I know Stephen Hawking well enough to know that he has read very little philosophy and even less theology, so I don’t think we should attach any weight to his views on God.”

    • Matthew 22:37

      Do you want to know how Paul Davies broke through scientism and disproved the first premise of materialism and discovered that God exists? By comparing and contrasting things.

      That is exactly one of the methods God uses. Compare and contrast. All people can use this method unless they are taught not to. I learned about this method reading the works of a fine bible student online.

      Isn’t the Bible a book of contrasts. Light, dark. Good, evil, etc.

      My latest info is Davies went from scientism and atheism to deism before he died. Davies said he engaged in scientism at one time.

      But he discovered God exists using God’s method of compare and contrast. He said so on his website.

      • You’re not talking to Paul Davies; you’re talking to me. No need to mention Davies again.

  • phillip mutchell

    Firstly Mat 28 and related texts are clearly limited to the Apostles and their mission to Israel, this is made clear by the extreme steps necessary for the Jewish element to accept that Gentiles were also ‘granted repentance unto eternal life’. Paul constitutes an apostle born ‘out of due time’ especially for the Gentile element who were to be in no way under the yoke of Moses; regardless of how one understands the interplay of law and grace the Jewush Christian maintained the traditions of their fathers in some measure until the removal of the Temple and the Jewish polity.
    Thus the verses you cite (following Carey the first to use them as a whip to force the laity forward) have no application, rather should Paul’s injunction that Christians remain content wherever God calls them guide them, but one suspects that like the fabled champagne socialist those who urge that these verses apply blithely ignore that they say go and rather insist they mean give, for unlike Paul they don’t wish to peddle the gospel at their own cost. God’s word ain’t no hustle…

    • Jack Wellman

      So disciple-making stopped 2,000 years ago? I disagree. Into “all the world” must by necesssity, all nations (non-Jewish nations) so your opinion does not match Scripture.

      • Jesus was addressing his disciples when he gave his Great Commission.

        You’ll say that Jesus needed people to carry on, generation after generation. No–Jesus saw the end game in the very short term, within the lifespan of those alive at the time. Passing the torch, generation to generation, wasn’t the plan.

        • When Jesus gave instructions to the twelve on their mission (Mat.10:5-15), he then referred them to coming persecutions (MT.10:16-23) and he concludes this section in verse 23 thus: “… for truly I tell you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of man comes.” This seems like a reference to the “Son of Man” figure in the book of Daniel and so supports your hypothesis that Jesus saw the end within the lifespan of those alive at the time.

      • phillip mutchell

        One has two options. A) Jesus founded a Church and therefore that Church alone has legitimacy, thus the entire Protestant enterprise is rendered rebellious.
        B) Christians are formed through the revelation of God’s son and so knowledge of God is experiential and all are taught of God.
        However you read Mt 28 it says go not give and support another professional class of clergy. The Didache insists if any travelling ministers ask for monies treat them as imposters yes the Duke and Dauphin ride again.