The Ultimate Signs You Got Your “Biblical” Worldview From Fox News

The Ultimate Signs You Got Your “Biblical” Worldview From Fox News September 5, 2015

fox worldview

As Christians we’re called to be in the world but not “of the world” yet that’s easier said than done. With a million facets of culture surrounding us, there are countless people and things that beg to shape our worldview. Many of them do so quite successfully, and without us even recognizing it.

One of those things that has radically shaped many Christian’s worldview in America, is Fox News. And no, I don’t believe that’s a good thing.

To help you see if your “biblical” worldview actually came from Fox News, here are the ultimate signs to watch out for:

12. If you recognize every face on Fox News Sunday but don’t know the first name of the person who passes you the offering plate in church.

Is your biblical worldview stemming from a commitment to learning and studying the Bible in the context of authentic community within the church? If you recognize every face on Fox News Sunday but don’t actually know the people in your own church, your biblical worldview is most likely coming from Fox News.

11. If someone brings up what the Bible says about immigrants you immediately assume they’re twisting scripture to fit their liberal political agenda.

If Fox News Christianity realized what the Bible actually says about immigrants, it might be a shock to the system. For example, in the OT God established a welfare program for immigrants, ordering that one could not pick from their garden more than once– after the first harvest, everything else was to remain untouched so that immigrants could come and take whatever food they needed, for free. Forced redistribution of wealth anyone? Don’t even get me started on what Jesus said about this.

10. If you’ve ever gone to and typed in the words “Fox News Study Bible.”

So, there’s not one. But if you’ve typed in those words (you know who you are) consider yourself busted. Or, perhaps you actually bought the Duck Commander Study Bible, or the American Patriot’s Bible, both of which would be functional equivalents. Either way, Jesus saw you purchase that.

9. If you’re afraid of Muslims but have never actually studied Islam and don’t personally know any Muslims.

When I watch Fox News talk about Muslims I often think to myself “if I started to believe this stuff, I’d be scared of all of them too.” Please- set aside your irrational fear. Study what Islam believes (the closest religion to Christianity and the only other religion that accepts Jesus Christ as the Messiah). Get some Muslim friends and stop letting Fox shape your view of them. Once you spend some time with Muslims you’ll realize how much of your fear was based on ignorance and stereotypes from Fox News.

8. You think Jesus would have considered taxation to be theft.

I frequently hear folks call taxation “theft” but that’s not what Jesus taught. Even though Jesus lived in an over-taxed society, he still told his disciples to pay them and never once called it theft. He did however get angry and kick over tables when religious leaders were using church to make a profit on the backs of the poor. Taxation is theft? Not to Jesus. Megachurch pastors fleecing their parishioners to live a cushy lifestyle? Yup– that makes baby Jesus very angry.

7. If you think Glenn Beck is one of the great theologians of our time.

Move over NT Wright. Let’s just say that if you’ve read America’s March Toward Socialism and Arguing with Idiots but you’ve never read Surprised by Hope or Simply Good News, there’s a pretty big chance your biblical worldview is the Fox News version.

6. You view your right to bear arms as “God-given” no matter how many people die, but think the right to access healthcare is an “attitude of entitlement.” 

I hear the phrase “entitlement attitude” used as a pejorative quite often when referencing poor people having access to basic life-sustaining necessities. Strangely enough, it’s never applied to those who actually do have an entitlement attitude about their gun rights, never applied to the golden calf of military spending, corporate welfare, or anything else– unless that anything else is something to help the poor.

5. You think calling someone a “liberal” is an appropriate way to win a theological debate.

I can’t count the times someone tries to dismiss something I’ve taught with: “Aha! You’re a liberal!” as if that means or proves anything. This is because Fox News Christianity invites one into a worldview of false binary options where everything is either liberal or conservative, and where liberal is obviously un-Christian. As a result, one will quickly find themselves dismissing any fellow Christian or theology that one thinks would fit in the “liberal” category, based upon not biblical lines, but lines drawn by a Fox mentality.

4. You thought Roman Catholics weren’t real Christians until you started to like Sean Hannity.

There’s something those of us who came from conservative, protestant traditions don’t readily admit in public: a complete distrust of Catholics. In fact, my last church voted to reject the historic Christian creeds because they contained the word Catholic. Strangely enough, many of my Catholics-aren’t-real-Christian friends toned down the back-room rhetoric when they became Hannity fans. Now they’ve just moved on to saying the Pope is a divisive liberal, which is another sign your biblical worldview came from Fox News.

3. You secretly wish your pastor would get Steve Doocy to come speak at the annual men’s prayer breakfast.

Believe it or not, I have some friends who would think this was an awesome idea. If while thinking about who you’d like to have come speak at your prayer breakfast, the name Steve Doocy, Oliver North, or Phil Robertson come into your mind, you most likely got your biblical worldview from Fox News.

2. You know the names of all the anchors but can’t name the 12 disciples.

Did you know Jesus had a disciple named Bart? Or that Matthias replaced Judas after winning a roll of the dice to replace the now vacant 12th position? If you don’t know those things, or if you can’t remember what book comes after Hosea or 2 Timothy, but you do know who comes on after Gretta– you might be getting your biblical worldview from Fox.

1. If you doubt those Christians who criticize Fox News are actually real Christians.

If you read through this list and started to think, “There’s no way this guy is a Christian” that’s probably the ultimate sign that Fox News is the source of your worldview instead of Jesus himself. Following Jesus is something that will never fit neatly within a cultural paradigm, and a neat cultural paradigm is exactly what Fox sells people. Be an informed consumer– get your worldview from reading what Jesus said and did. Don’t get it from Fox, or anywhere else for that matter.


I think those are the ultimate signs you got your biblical worldview from Fox News, what say you? If you chose to opine below, please keep it pithy. (And if you’re a Fox fan, you’ll know what I just did right there.)

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  • JM

    Number 9. Moslems do not consider Jesus to be the Messiah, the consider him a prophet. Wait til you have young Pakistanis on your wall who convert to Islam and they will tell you you are going to hell because you believe Jesus is the Son of God. You’ll quickly get over that misbelief.

  • The word “Messiah” means “Anointed One” or “Chosen One”. The Quran calls Jesus by that title. Now, this is not the same as “son of God” (commonly used to speak of one who gets authority from or speaks for God, in many religions) or “Son of God” which is used in most Christian theologies to say Jesus is part of the Triune God unlike any other being that ever walked on earth. Benjamin wrote one of these terms in his article under #9, not all of them. You might want to re-read carefully.

  • The Koran calls Jesus the Messiah at least 9 times.

  • louismoreaugottschalk


  • louismoreaugottschalk

    I think Fox News carries the message of Antichrist!

  • liberalinlove

    There is no time in history when we have had such incredible access to information. Ignorance will never be an excuse when we stand before the Lord and state we “thought” such and such was true and therefore we felt compelled to act accordingly. Any source of news, theology, culture, which spreads hatred is not of God nor is it endorsed by God.

    New International Version James 3:17
    But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere.

    If you don’t watch Fox but walk in the counsel of people who do, the fruit may include: anything that sows discord, hatred of those who are in the world, (which even Jesus did not come to judge but to redeem), hatred of strangers (aliens without legal status) despising the poor, bearing false witness, railing at specks in the eyes of others.

    When I can fact check or easily read economists or pull up the policies of previous administrations and discover that Fox has a clear agenda to distort facts I must ask myself why should I, a child of God, waste my time and not guard my heart against such with all diligence.

  • liberalinlove

    Maybe not pithy enough!

  • Jeff Short

    They do believe Jesus is the Messiah, but not the Son of God. Which theologically and biblically does mean two different things. So the author of the article is correct because of the terminology he used. Also interesting, to me as a Follower of Jesus anyways, the Quran actually references/speaks about Jesus more than it does Muhammad. I was at a round table discussion once, our church sponsored a series of them, where a pastor, with a doctorate in theology, an Imam and a Rabbi discussed their different religious views and understandings of Jesus. I was surprised to learn that Muslims also believe in Jesus’ virgin birth, miracles, a second coming or return of Jesus during the end times, and I’m not positive but I think they also believe in his resurrection. It is kind of crazy how similar their views of Jesus are, but they miss that key believe “fully human and fully divine.” Kind of like Saul/Paul, and maybe that’s why their conversation to Christianity stories are often as amazing as Paul’s. – “May you know Peace, and be Peace.” -Jeff

  • Michael Wilson

    I guess this might apply to 2 or three people on earth, sadly I doubt they will read this. The Old Testament’s solution to poverty? Letting the poor eat trash they find at no cost. How progressive.

  • Way to prove the validity of #9.

  • I’m more of a Duck Dodgers Study Bible man, myself.

  • Jerry Lynch

    If you think of Democrats as godless socialists and as minions of the Anti-Christ Obama looking to create the One World Order.

    If you see Black Lives Matter as a terrorist organization looking for more freebies and to get away with murder. (And besides that, you know racism no longer exists in this country.)

    If you see Capitalism in all its forms as God’s righteous economy.

    If you see Voter Restriction Laws as needed to stop wide-scale fraud that won the election for Obama.

    If you believe…sorry, cannot finish; I am making myself ill.

  • seashell

    Can someone clue me in on the pithy joke? I don’t watch Fox News except for short clips featured on blogs for entertainment purposes. Great article!

  • Jeanne Fox

    People from Fox News say things just as outrageous when on other shows. On The View, Bill O’Reilly announced that “America has a Muslim problem.”

    I hope he doesn’t have a Final Solution to the problem.

  • Matthew Funke

    I had to use Google. Bill O’Reilly has evidently authored a book entitled “Keep It Pithy”.

  • Buhari

    But that’s not what Muslims believe. I grew up in a country that was 50% Muslim… Calling Christ the messiah may be a quick way to start a fight.

  • seashell

    Ahhh. Thank you! Not a book I would ever read, or apparently even know about.

  • At the end of Bill O’Riley’s evening show he’ll read mail from viewers and at the end he’ll say “here’s where you can write if you wish to opine, but keep it pithy.”

  • JM

    I guess the way things are in American christianity nowadays I should not find it surprising that a group would consider Jesus to be the Messiah without that equating him with being the Son of God.

  • seashell

    The 2nd definition of pithy reads, (of a fruit or plant) containing much pith

    From what I’ve seen and you have written, there’s more of the fruits than the concise at Fox News. Thanks for the comment!

  • otrotierra

    Thank you Benjamin. For every hour U.S. evangelicals spend consuming Fox “News” media, what if they spent learning about Jesus and The Greatest Commandment directly from scripture?

    Better yet, how about a “Fox News fast” for every frothing-at-the-mouth evangelical? The world would be a much better place.

  • I was about to ask the same question JM posed, so thanks BLC and Jeff for clarifying.

    Despite being trained in an interdenominational Bible College (in Northern Ireland), I never knew that about Islam! I, too, thought they just saw him as a prophet, but lower than Mohammad, though I recently saw a Muslim converted to Christianity who said he read his Koran and discovered that Jesus was ‘the Word’ and since God created the universe ‘by his word’, he realised that Jesus WAS God. Of course, he’s risking losing his head in SOME quarters for stating that; I’d like to believe that most Muslims would debate that openly since I had a Muslim schoolfriend and we debated theology endlessly – strange he never mentioned that Jesus was the Messiah, and now I’m wondering if his mosque was teaching a narrow definition of the Koran like our own churches do with our Bible? Hmmm. I really must go find some Muslims and start a debate with them.

    Fox [news – *cough*] is broadcast here too! I know so many fellow evangelicals (and some non-Christian rabid racists) who think it’s the greatest source of information in the world. While a lot of the points you make here (hilarious) are particular to the US, the worldview DOES spread out like a web (of lies).

  • liberalinlove

    Yep the Muslim problem is that people like Bill O’Reilly can’t seem to consider that they are our neighbors and therefore we should love them as we love ourselves. Such an uncomfortable place to be when all you can see is justifications for hate.

  • liberalinlove

    Benjamin, thanks for taking one for the rest of us. I couldn’t bring myself to watch him long enough to hear that pithy comment. I really thought you wanted us to be pithy. So thanks for clarification.

  • Jon-Michael Ivey

    I can agree with all of these except for #8. It is quite consistent to believe Jesus would call taxes theft, so long as you remember that Jesus commanded us to give even ordinary thieves what they demand rather than to resist them.

    When asked about paying the temple tax, Jesus asked form whom the kings of the nations demand tribute. They take from foreigners and leave their own children free. He strongly implies that taxation is theft and that he has no moral duty to pay the didrachma, but voluntarily chooses to pay them anyway because it is better to pay such a sum than to risk offending those who believe that they should. Taxation might not be legitimate, but it is not worth resisting. It is not the focus of the gospel.

    The only other time he was asked about taxes he noted that it was an obvious trap and avoiding giving any direct answer to the question. The “render to Caesar…” reply could very well imply that Caesar does not have legitimate ownership, as everything belongs to God. It could also indict the people for even possessing Roman currency, especially on the holy ground of the temple complex, as the image on the coins was an idol that should be banned under the Law of Moses.

    FOX News is not really a station that would call taxation theft anyway. They are not that ideologically consistent. They are conservative, not libertarian. They want to reduce taxes for the wealthy, not abolish them for everyone. They would rather go on about how unfair it is to let the poorer half of the population get away with not paying any taxes, neglecting to mention how the burden of sales taxes falls hardest on the poor or how they virtually pay other taxes through the price increases that those taxes cause in the necessities of life.

  • Arthur Adams

    You accuse liberals of worshipping the “Obamessiah”, perhaps even believing there are liberals that literally worship him, but you believe the Lord has anointed Donald Trump, despite the fact that until very recently, it would seem that if he was told “You cannot serve both God and mammon”, he picked the latter.

  • otrotierra

    Back in July, Charisma Magazine prophesied that God speaks to the U.S. through Donald Trump in their “Prophecy: Donald Trump Shall Become the Trumpet.” Benjamin Corey offered a well-needed response to this latest example of evangelical idolatry.

  • DutchS

    #5. The counterparts to the people who think that calling someone “conservative or “Tea Party” is a way to win a debate. Hint: count the number of times “troll” comes up in the comments.

  • Related to #4: You were really down on Mormons till Glenn Beck and Mitt Romney made you figure, “Okay, they may not be real Christians, but when it comes to politics, close enough.”

    (Y’know, back when I was Fundie, there was no FoxNews. So I had to get my worldview from James Dobson and Bill Gothard. With a little Limbaugh on the side—“talent on loan from God” meant he name-dropped God just enough to justify listening to him.)

  • Arthur Adams

    I remember the Charisma article; it’s what inspired my comment above. I wasn’t aware of a response; maybe I assumed “you can’t be serious!” was sufficient.

  • Paul Julian Gould

    al-Masih in Arabic (especially among the Syrian Orthodox, Iraqi refugees and Muslim Sufi shaykhs I’ve known over the years), Moshiach in Hebrew and Messiah in English.

    But since there are some folks that consider English as having been good enough for Jesus and St. Paul…

  • Paul Julian Gould

    Thank you for your noble sacrifice, Jerry… otherwise known as “taking one for the team.”

    Well-said, BTW… *smile*

  • Jon-Michael Ivey

    From what I’ve heard the Koran itself is a bit ambiguous, but most Muslims believe that God would not allow any prophet of his to suffer a fate as bad as death by crucifixion. Muslims tend to agree with the Gnostics that Jesus escaped from the Romans and let someone else die in his place, miraculously disguised so as to look like Jesus. The actual Jesus never died and thus could never have been resurrected, but was taken into occlusion and ascended into heaven without ever being injured.

    They are clear that Jesus was the messiah as well as the greatest of all the prophets, and that he will return (after the Mahdi) to judge and purify the Earth.

  • Jon-Michael Ivey

    Another sign would be is you agree with Todd Starnes on basically anything he has ever said (except the admission “I’m no theologian” which he will occasionally make just before demonstrating just how bad at theology he really is).

  • otrotierra

    Franklin Graham’s political alliance with Planet Kolob certainly was convenient for him and his followers.

  • otrotierra

    Charisma Magazine’s prophecy can lead religious fundamentalists to think “If God speaks to me [America] through Trump, maybe God *wants* me to serve mammon.” When one dispenses with what Jesus actually taught, all sorts of spiritual relativism becomes possible.

  • Herm

    It’s happens every night behind nearly every restaurant available except those who lock their garbage away from the pickers. What the Old Testament speaks to is what we speak of today as gleaning and there are a few farmers who do follow that direction.

  • Herm

    The Ultimate Sign You Got Your “Biblical” Worldview From Some Other Source than Fox News:

    *** You show up ready to listen when you know the speaker is Bernie Sanders, the avowed SOCIALIST. ***

    … disclaimer: this is not an endorsement but is an independent observation.

  • Michael Wilson

    Right, which is letting whomever gather what is dropped or missed while harvesting. Is there even a penalty for non-compliance? My point is that this hardly a leftist solution to immigration. If Obama announced that his solution to immigration was he would let them pick whatever food they found in fields after harvesting and sift trash he would be pilloried as a heartless monster. The doesn’t envision border patrol but it doesn’t mandate jobs, housing, or regular support. There are no provisions for citizenship into a tribe of Israel. The average Fox viewer, even of Hannity, is hardly as miserly as Leviticus.

  • I don’t understand why you are taking a 3,000 year old agrarian response to poverty and complaining that it isn’t adequate today.

  • Ruthitchka

    Hahaha! Wasn’t he in search of “aluminum phosdex”, the shaving-cream atom? Love that!

  • Ruthitchka

    Sorry the USA managed to share lovely Fox News with you folks in Ireland! I guess it is contagious.

  • Ruthitchka

    Ever hear the song, “If John the Baptist read the King James Bible, It’s Good Enough for Me”? ( o :

  • Herm

    You do know that Leviticus is temple law among the keepers of the tabernacle, don’t you? This was in the middle of the exodus where farming wasn’t at all an option and the Israelites were the migrants in the midst of migration. This was when they were most in need of their portions of manna, double portion on the sixth day. I guess you might say that was God’s leftist solution.

  • emerson

    I hope he does.

  • emerson

    Benjamin, you’re not a Great American.
    Got a theology question: Jesus called his servants (Christians) and gave them talents. One Christian was unfaithful with his talent and Christ had him thrown into outer darkness (hell). Do you Fuller students believe in apostasy?

  • angel2shine


  • Summers-lad

    As a Scot I am bemused by this. Only nos. 9, 5 and 4 are views I recognise as being held by some Christians I know, and I don’t know who many of the people you have named are. (I do know who Bart, NT Wright, Jesus and some others are though.) My point in writing this is that your signs are pretty well exclusively American, and belonging specifically to one culture (same would be true of any other nation) is a pretty good sign that it’s not Christianity.
    P.S. I had never seen Fox News until recently when a link from Google took me there. It was an innocuous item about young skateboarder Evan Doherty.

  • Jeanne Fox

    That’s more like Mein Kampf than the Bible. :-(

  • otrotierra

    Fox News media is made to be consumed by white U.S. fundamentalists who know little about world history, critical thinking or textual interpretation, and current events.

  • Robin Warchol

    While Hannity states he is Catholic, his hobknobbing with evangelicals like the Duck dynasty guys, make him really more evangelical than Catholic in a number of ways. I have never heart him talk about hanging out with Catholics, only die hard evangelicals. That probably would be why you want to claim that anti-Catholic evangelicals would like him. He does nothing in his position that supports Catholic teaching but maybe abortion and marriage. His views are his own. I am surprised that you didn’t mention Bill OReilly who is Catholic (or at least raised one). I do not get my “theology” from Fox any more than I would get my “theology” from CNN or MSNBC. To be fair are you going to make the same “test” for liberals using CNN or MSNBC? Even as a conservative Catholic, I do not always like or share in many of the views of a number of the regulars on Fox or even care for their personalities. But going over to networks like CNN or MSNBC is just as bad in the opposite direction. Polarization works both ways.

  • TLC

    Please do not type in all caps. It is considered to be shouting, and it’s rude.

  • TLC

    Went home to see my parents this weekend because my brother and nephew were there, and we FINALLY convinced Mom and Dad to get a medic alert system after more than a year or work. While there, we asked about a couple who’d been friends of the family for 50+ years.

    Sadly, my parents don’t see them anymore. The husband has always been right wing politically, willing to argue with anyone. But now he’s retired and immersed in Fox News. It’s so bad now that he starts to rant as soon as everyone settles in for conversation. If you don’t actively agree with him, never mind question or oppose him, he gets up and leaves.

    I’m very sad to learn that this couple we grew up with have digressed like this.

    Great post, Ben.

  • Can I suggest you actually read the passages about how to care for the stranger in your land before criticizing them? Might make you look like less of an ass.

  • Because they know what you mean by that, and it’s not what they mean. He is an Anointed One, but he’s not THE Messiah.

  • To me, the dead giveaway is that when you read Kolob backwards, it gives you (nearly) a rude word.

  • otrotierra


  • Herm

    Emerson, I know much of Ben’s take on what a “Great American” would be. I really am interested as to what your definition of a “Great American” is.

    I must assume you have some theology training other than from Fuller Theological Seminary. You do know that Christ Jesus professed the abandonment or renunciation of Judaism as practiced and the entire political beliefs of this world by accepting Him as Lord and High Priest over all.

  • Herm

    Tony, that really takes some British balls to write that out loud!

  • otrotierra

    Herm, I’m afraid Jesus likewise was/is not a Great American. Scandalous! I guess Benjamin is in good company.

  • emerson

    Herm: “Great American” was a joke. FOX’s Sean
    Hannity calls everyone who agrees with him a Great American.
    I don’t know what Fuller teaches. I’m a layman and I honestly wanted to know Ben’s take on the Parable of the Talents (Be interested to hear yours). Here’s my point: People say they read the Bible, but then they will say the very opposite of what God wrote. For example, James says a person is “justified by what he does and not by faith alone.” But the foundation for virtually every Protestant denomination is “Faith Alone.” Jesus said the Jews are the children of the devil. But most Protestants idolize the Jews. The Pope even calls them his “elder brothers.” The parables are simple. But when you ask people to explain one, all kinds of crazy comes out. They haven’t really read the Bible. I wanted Ben’s opinion. That’s all.

  • emerson

    Yeah, please stop shouting, woman.

  • Michael Wilson

    Some people think it is some blueprint to dealing with poverty and immigration today, and I think we should question that.

  • Michael Wilson

    I don’t think Leviticus was written during an exodus, and most biblucal scholars maintain that position.

  • seashell

    Polarization may work both ways, but there are significant differences in how they got to the poles media-wise. A Pew Research study revealed that liberals rely on varied news outlets (NPR, New York Times, BBC) while conservatives generally trust and rely on only Fox.

    Political Polarization & Media Habits

  • seashell

    13. Santa Claus is white.

    14. Jesus is a white man, too.

  • Michael Wilson

    I did, I think its wise to hold back opinion until educated. I would recomend that for the many “Faux News sux!” articles I read. I figure that Fox News is popular with leftist, understandably enough. But the tendency is for critics to make parody of parodies.

    Regarding gleaning, I think it is a nice gesture for its time. I work in a hotel and am often saddened by the amount of quallity food that gets thrown out and wisg their were a way to use it for people in need. But this article seems to envision people that say they are Christian and take offence at biblical gleaning. Who are these people? When conservative Christians take exception to liberal prescriptions for immigration problems they are dealing with policies far different than those of the Old Testament. Gleaning does not equal a dream act, or qualification for publuc assistance. Its a primitive, inefficient, and minimalist approach to welfare. Good in its time but not for now.

    Speaking of Fox News and immigrants, former Fox News personality Glen Beck spent time and money feeding illegal immigrants. Though I wonder who watching Fox thinks this devout Mormon is a great theologian. Most evangelicals don’t consider Mormons Christian. I also question this assumption that Fox’s regular viewers must be ignorent of their fellow congregants or Bible facts. Might this not be true of people that like CNN, MSNBC, or the New York times? Would any one that really watches Fox News think its viewers support corporate welfare? And I’m not a fan of all the guns out there, but a right to a gun doesn’t mean that they are provided. You have the same right to treatment, your not barred from receiving it.

    I don’t gather from what Fox News I watch that taxation =theft is a popular opinion there.

  • Michael Wilson

    All of which are liberal. There is as of yet not a lot of choices for conservative news. The same opinion in 5 different formats is not diversity.

  • Gleaning is a poor substitute for a vigorous welfare system, and a more open refugee policy. No question there. When you contrast that with the talking heads at Fox News saying “maybe they have a point,” when the Texas Minutemen say they should be given authority to shoot undocumented immigrants on sight, I think you can agree that gleaning, while by no means sufficient, is perhaps an improvement.

    I tend to agree that they don’t think the Glenn Beck is a great theologian. They think he’s a prophet. I just spent most of a day listening to various relatives repeat talking points popularized by Glenn Beck without examining whether they were, y’know, true.

    I honestly don’t understand the rest of that paragraph, sorry.

  • Herm

    Robin, I have had to think for few hours as to what is discordant in what you have written. I feel that your last two sentences, to me, are assumptions that have no foundation. What you just said clearly makes the Messiah a polar opposite of Judaism. Do you believe that?

    If you are a citizen of the United States of America you are constitutionally protected in your right to voice your opinion upheld by an adversarial system of justice. I do know that CNN, FOX and MSNBC need to all maintain a market share of the viewership just to cover minimal expenses or their electricity gets shut off. Even NPR requires funds to keep the lights on.

    I can understand why you might advocate anti-abortion and pray the gay away. I want discourse that is fair and balanced. Our nation has moved from the last term of President FDR to this the remaining term of President Barack Obama slowly to an unbalance to a more conservative oligarchy. Our social structure overwhelmingly more and more favors the wealthy who pay to get our politicians elected than the poor, who are looking but, are without the opportunity of employment. Without regular employment our laborers slowly atrophy until they die of malnutrition (physically, socially, mentally and spiritually). The 1950’s were the first time we, as a nation, offered the opportunity of affluence for all who would accept an education and work to earn (?) it. Much of our working class built and maintained their pride of work ethics through government financed programs in the 1940’s, all the way from a GI to CCC worker. Our congress today is deleting every government financed program they can get away with. “Entitlements” has become an evil word in our nation most especially if shared with the “huddled masses yearning to breathe free”.

    I know CNN does the most they can to remain honest, fair and balanced in offering and explaining the news of today. When they report, as NPR does occasionally, that we are moving away from our foundation found in the Declaration of Independence they are branded liberals polarized to the left. Bullshit!

    I know MSNBC does try very hard to maintain as much balance as they can while still maintaining an emphasis on social health of the entire nation. When Alfred Charles “Al” Sharpton Jr. speaks from his heart and mind as an American Baptist minister and civil rights “for all equally” activists who fights today in the trenches and says that Jesus cared and loved the beggar equally as well as the wealthy he is branded a black entitlement liberal polarized past the far left.

    When Glenn Lee Beck, Sean Patrick Hannity, Rush Hudson Limbaugh III or William James O’Reilly, Jr. says this is a Christian nation dependent on the wealthy to provide for a frugal small government they are branded each a patriotic conservative polarized to the right. Anyone who actually reads and comprehends the Bible in the Spirit, the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States of America knows that as pandering to the ignorant self-indulgent to keep their halos and the FOX company lights on. NPR, CNN and MSNBC only represent an adversarial system of justice necessary to keep at least some empathetic, tolerant and actually loving for all lights on in the hearts and minds of their supporters.

    If you had to take one polar opposite would you choose Jesus or the Israelites?

  • Michael Wilson

    Lots of opinions are expressed on Fox, letting vigilantes shoot illegal immigrants might gave been someones but it isn’t a popular one. Some people really like Beck(not employed by Fox for some years now), some people really like Rachel Madow, Noam Chomsky or Paul Krugman. Leftist should spend less time writing and reading unrecognizable satire of news outlets that don’t cater to their world view and spend more time actually considering alternative opinions and perspectives.

  • Please give me an opinion of, oh, say, Bill O’Reilly’s that I couldn’t find explained elsewhere without the rancour.

  • Herm

    Michael, a conservative by definition is a person who is averse to change and holds to traditional values and attitudes, typically in relation to politics. This would indicate that there is no news because what a conservative adheres to has already been written. How many “choices for conservative news” does one need?

    All FOX News is doing is reporting on whether what is happening fits inside accepted traditional so as to avoid the risk of change.

    On a blog advocating Christ Jesus as our Lord, Brother and Teacher in the Holy Spirit, tradition and change are encouraged by our Messiah to last an eternity. Relative to Judaism in the time of Jesus on Earth that is exactly what Jesus was directing; radical change away from tradition.

    I love you Michael but a common thread in reporting the news that is constantly in a state of change reported in “5 different formats” of diversity might have more truth to glean than attempting to compare the news of today as okay relative to yesterday alone from one single perspective.

    The Christ was crucified by the conservatives of His time on Earth by those reporting according to tradition rather than the Spirit of Truth.

  • Herm

    Yeah, sew, wat du thoas hav got 2 du wit FOX News?

  • Herm

    Perhaps a better way where gleaning becomes a thing of the past:

    “Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed. They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen. Now, Lord, consider their threats and enable your servants to speak your word with great boldness. Stretch out your hand to heal and perform signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus.”

    After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly. All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had.

    With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all that there were no needy persons among them.

    For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need. Joseph, a Levite from Cyprus, whom the apostles called Barnabas (which means “son of encouragement”), sold a field he owned and brought the money and put it at the apostles’ feet.” Acts 4:27-37

  • Herm

    No Michael, most most biblical scholars maintain the position that Leviticus originally was written during the Exodus of the Israelites. You can think what you want but that does not make it true.

    Love you!

  • otrotierra

    The white Jesus who hates poor brown people does seem to be very important to consumers of Fox “News” media. That’s the precise opposite of the historical Jesus. The Anti-Jesus, if you will, is incredibly popular at Fox News.

  • otrotierra

    Thank you Herm! I alway appreciate your thoughtful contributions. So glad you’re here! Such a great example of thoughtful, courageous dialogue.

  • Michael Wilson

    Conservative like most words is subject to change and redefiniton. Once a liberal meant someone that believed in free-markets and conservatives believed merchants should subject to monarchs. Things change. Are people that want to undo the 70 year old social security system for an untested investment scheme conservative? Conservatives are always modifying positions and coming up with new ideas, many liberals cling to generations old opinions. Don’t get to hung up on the meaning of a label.

    Do conservatives need news? Of course they do. Many people get the odd idea that the rich (except the ones they like) are simpletons that only make money off the greater stupidity of others and brute force. But an investor that reads a right wing source like the Wall Street Journal or watches Fox really needs to know what is really happening to make decisions to keep their money. People need to get out of the head space that anyone that challenges their expectation is an evil liar and their arguments for their beliefs should not be listened to, that your parody of your opponents is the truth.

  • Michael Wilson

    A lot of cults have burned people with common property schemes. Still it sounds nice, perhaps some progressive Christians fond of quoting this passge could implement it in their own church and report on the progress.

  • seashell

    Because Megyn Kelly reported that “Santa just is white” and a little later, “Jesus was a white man, too. He was a historical figure and that’s a verifiable fact.” It’s all in da video if you if can bear to watch it for two minutes. Video.

  • Al Cruise

    If you believe that the Fox News personal are legitimate journalists, then one can understand why you believe what you believe.

  • seashell

    Just so well-said. Thank you, Herm. And for what it’s worth, I second your “Bullshit!”

  • Herm

    Emerson, forgive me for tying together “Do you Fuller students believe in apostasy” with “you’re not a Great American” to misunderstand you as castigating Ben for his article. It is good that you respect him enough to have asked his opinion regarding your conflict. Because Ben is public in his ministry he gets hit hard by too many who disagree and who would go much further, than what I mistakenly thought you were doing, to actually castrate him rather than castigate him. In my respect and love for him, you and them I was a bit too reactive in my self-initiated attempt to defend all.

    Maybe, I can help you with your reading in the Bible seeming to conflict with the religions, of whom you speak to their fruits you see. I will, although, begin with a testimony that there is a word of God directly available in your heart and mind to guide you separate from the Bible, though spoken of and supported by the Bible. I hope this is the fruit by what I try answer for you leads to and not at all for you to become a student of mine. We are all, relative to spiritual awareness, equally very little children in this opportunity of life we share with each other to learn and grow.

    Please temper everything in the Bible from or about Jesus’ commands with the following three scriptures:

    “So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.” Matthew 7:12

    ““Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

    Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”” Matthew 22:36-40

    “On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

    “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

    He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”

    “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”” Luke 10:25-28

    The following are two different passages that in the King James Version used the word “talents”.

    ““Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed. “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”” Matthew 18:32-35

    This admonition was directed at Jesus’ disciples only and speaks to an anguish they could bring on themselves by expecting our Father’s forgiveness but remain unwilling to forgive others. Note that even under torture it is possible to pay back the debt. (not everlasting hell)

    ““Then the man who had received one bag of gold came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. So I was afraid and went out and hid your gold in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’ “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest. “‘So take the bag of gold from him and give it to the one who has ten bags. For whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’” Matthew 25:24-30

    … compare the above with the following:

    “Then Jesus went through the towns and villages, teaching as he made his way to Jerusalem. Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?”

    He said to them, “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’ “But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’ “Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’ “But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!’

    “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God. Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last.”” Luke 13:22-30 (not hell, just not inside)

    You wrote, “For example, James says a person is “justified by what he does and not by faith alone.” But the foundation for virtually every Protestant denomination is “Faith Alone.””

    “And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” James 2:23-24 (KJV)

    … the same different Bible version:

    “And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.” James 2:23-24 (NIV)

    Please note that righteous would probably be the more appropriate word relative to God’s friend. The following helps me to keep this in perspective:

    ““Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit.” Matthew 12:33

    By the above scripture when I have the faith it will be recognized by the fruit harvested from my efforts and/or God’s efforts through me. This is a reflective way of my being able to know, also, whether or not I am in the faith that prescribes love and in everything doing to all others as I would have all others do to me.

    You wrote, “Jesus said the Jews are the children of the devil. But most Protestants idolize the Jews. The Pope even calls them his “elder brothers.””

    “This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.” 1 John 3:10

    Jesus did not say what you said He said. Thank you for not placing that in quotes. Jesus a child of a Jewish mother which made Him by human birthright a Jew. Jesus tells me the following:

    ““You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” Matthew 5:43-48

    Emerson, I have some really great news for your inquiring mind and heart that you most likely have not heard before. Jesus, the Son of Man/Son of God, was a layman when it came to the ministry just like you. He never attended seminary and yet spoke with bold authority of His Father and the Spirit of Truth who He and His Father would send to make available to ALL who believed in Him, They in us and us in Them. To be a disciple (student) of the Rabbi Jesus anyone must believe so fully in the Truth in Him that they are 100% willing to honor following:

    ““If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.” Luke 14:26-27

    Baptized means to be cleansed pure and simple. In Jesus’ church there is baptism by fire, water and the Holy Spirit.

    “When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”” Luke 3:21-22

    I testify that you too can have the “like a dove” descend on you to be a little child of God. Pray directly to Jesus to teach you through the Holy Spirit as the word of God and you too will know our Father’s love.

    May you, too, find the blessings of peace and joy inside the Family of God as Their child rather than being subject to the weeping and gnashing of teeth outside in the garbage dump of Gehenna.

    Love you and hope this helps!

  • Herm

    The above scripture does not speak at all to religious churches of any bent or denomination, their implementation or their need to report on progress to make the Spirit viable. There is only one Lord, Rabbi and High Priest students of Christ Jesus answer to, only one. In a nation ruled by the laws of a constitution guaranteeing freedom of religious pursuit in a government of all the people, by all the people and for all the people disciples of Christ rely on the Spirit, not any church or cult, to in everything do to all others as we would have all others do to us. Call the Spirit of Truth progressive, liberal or conservative the result will be the same.

    I think we should question ourselves according to the results from how we have dealt with poverty and immigration free from the Spirit of God, our Declaration of Independence and our Constitution. What degree of goodness is there in our nation’s unity of government and its subject economy when it obviously favors an increase for the good of the 1%, who can afford to place our representatives in office for their favors, at the cost of a decrease to the remaining 99%?

    The blueprint stands and works free from the spirit of the self-indulgent who cannot purchase a way to take 75% of the pie with them when they die.

  • Herm

    Come on Michael, do you really believe change as a premise is reflected in this question, “Are people that want to undo the 70 year old social security system for an untested investment scheme conservative?”?

    This is the very same conservative platform that vehemently argued against all the social programs instituted under President Franklin Delano Roosevelt because they lacked the good old proven capitalistic inspiration/motivation of the previous traditions in governing our economy. It was only after we began to realized the fruit from taxing the wealthy 75% of their profits (but not of their accumulated abundant static wealth) and the firm institution of government social programs, intended to raise up the poor, did our economy take off so that all citizens, and those outside wanting to be citizens, had a hope to be affluent if they became educated and worked hard. Previously the tradition was the rich got richer and the poor got poorer, really.

    What seems to be missing here is that none of us earned what we have except by the luck of the draw or by the grace of God, our choice which. We began, without our choice, by the loan of an opportunity to live, choose and enjoy up to the potential of our limited environment (all environments on this planet have their obvious limitations). When we invest our God, or luck of the draw, loaned talents back into our community (from each self outward to the whole world of mankind) we get a return as more than enough from those we give to grow stronger who give back many fold more. This isn’t some voodoo or progressive economy, it works. We have reliable proof from our past if we didn’t resist looking honestly at our ups and downs along with what preceded each. It works when the self-indulgent don’t tamper with the facts, as with FOX News, to rewrite history to support themselves over all others.

    CNN, MSNBC and NPR get things wrong trying to fill in the blanks or because of not having a trustworthy opposition’s perspective to check and balance them. Everybody is diverse from any other. We all see from different angles. We support each other when we can trust each other’s perspective to balance in truth our whole body of mankind. When we, as with neoconservatives given a platform on FOX News, begin to compete against one another just to win for the cause we, as mankind, go into a self destruct mode.

    I read and listen to all diverse sources of information and viewpoints I can but reject, to eventually shut off (like Rush Limbaugh), information and viewpoints clearly offered to support one over another with no regard for the whole. FOX News is right on the edge of pushing agendas solely for the gain of one over another with no regard for the whole.

    The word conservative and its uses have not changed although sometimes the wolf is wearing an outer facade of sheep’s clothing. We began this government with a big loan from France. We, and all governing nations, live constantly indebted to some other nation or nations. We as individuals have been loaned everything we have to our name. All that we have in our name can be taken away at anytime except our responsibility to what we have in our name. Honor, which is good when equal for all, says we pay our bills and most do. I grew up in California with farmers who borrowed for the seed and repaid at the harvest, every season, it’s how economy works. God has bountifully loaned us everything, put everything on Earth in our name, and will call in the loan for each and all of us in the end. The only extended offer on the table is to become little children of God forever joyfully and peacefully indebted to our benevolent Father. Then we can be progressively striving together as one in the Spirit without ceasing to share all in the kingdom to learn and mature to make our Family proud to have created us in the first place.

    … or we can go back to the tradition of self-centered peace without joy that we each knew first in the womb.

  • Kevin Jackson

    Ben, I love your stuff. I appreciate the challenge you throw at us day in and day out. It makes me really think through my ideology (which, for the record, falls into the cringing moderate camp). And I get why you used the Fox News ideology as you challenge evangelicals. Yes, most (and by most I mean over 90%) are moderately conservative to east of John Birch. That being said, to prevent the cries from the right, and because I’m actually curious as to your take, I would be interested in an MSNBC version of this.

  • Michael Wilson

    My point is the people that like to point out this passage to show the Bibles support of communism/socialism and so support adopting those policies never actually practice it themselves.

  • Hehe likewise ;)

  • emerson

    Thank you for your response. I agree in part:
    Abraham and Noah were considered righteous by their faith, but faith is more than mere mental understanding and mental assent: “By faith Noah … in holy fear built an ark … By his faith he … became heir of the righteousness that comes by faith” (Heb. 11:7). “By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice” (Heb. 1:17). When God tested their faith, Abraham acted on the instructions to sacrifice his son and Noah had to build a boat. Both acted physically to obtain righteousness. They proved they believed by what they did. They acted on His words (instructions).
    We obtain righteousness the same way, by our obedient actions: “You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered … Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did … and it was credited to him as righteousness … You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. (James 2:20–24)

    Abraham and Noah both had a “complete faith.”
    James says the testing of our faith makes us ‘mature and complete’ (James 1:3–4). And Peter tells us that our trials come that your “faith may prove genuine” and that you may receive the “the goal of your faith … salvation of your
    souls” (1 Peter 1:7, 9). Jesus confirmed this when He said words and “beliefs” are insufficient: “Why do you call me, “Lord, Lord,” and do not do what I say? I will show you what he is like who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice. He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on
    rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it …. But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a
    man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it
    collapsed and its destruction was complete.” (Luke 6:46–49)

    If Abraham and Noah hadn’t acted on their beliefs, they would have been destroyed. They would have been like the seed sown on stony ground that Jesus described in the parable of the Sower: “They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away” (Luke 8:13).

    As for Hell and Gehenna:
    “Who of us can dwell with the consuming fire? Who of us
    can dwell with everlasting burning?” (Isa. 33:14). “And they will look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched (Isa. 66:24).
    This is not a burning garbage dump. It’s an eternal fire.
    This is the future of the Christian who buries his talent—outer darkness, if you compare scripture with scripture. There are only six other occasions where the terms outer darkness and weeping and gnashing of teeth appear. The first is the parable of the Narrow Door: Then you will say, “We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.” But he will reply, “I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!” There will
    be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth. (Luke 13:26–28)
    The second is in the parable of the Unfaithful pastor: “My
    master is staying away a long time,” and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and … He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matt. 24:48–51)
    The third is in the parable of the marriage banquet, where one guest lacks a garment: “Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For many are called, but few are
    chosen.” (Matt. 22:13–14 KJV)
    The fourth: Jesus tells the Pharisees of their eternal fate in outer darkness.
    The fifth and sixth occur in the parable of the Tares
    and the Weeds and the parable of The Net. When the angels reap the earth, the weeds, all who do evil, and all of the bad fish will be “cast into the furnace of fire, where there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth” (Matt. 13:41–42, 50 KJV).
    Outer darkness is hell, not a temporal burning garbage

    Thanks again for your response. It’s important to get our doctrine right. False teachers will not enter the Kingdom,
    even if they were previously converted. In fact, false teaching is the only sin in the New Testament that will destroy you swiftly: “There will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their shameful ways … In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. (2 Peter 2:1–3)

    Be careful with that Gehenna doctrine, Herm. If we don’t teach exactly what He taught, then we become false teachers and we deny Him.

    You’re a Great American. Best regards.

  • Herm

    socialism – noun – a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

    communism – noun – a political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs.

    “So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.” Matthew 7:12

    “Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”” Matthew 22:37-40

    “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.” The Declaration of Independence for the United States of America

    capitalism – noun – an economic and political system in which a country’s trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.

    democracy – noun – a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.

    “Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”” Matthew 28:18-20

    ““If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. And whoever does not carry their cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.” Luke 14:26-27

    Michael, armed with all that I have quoted verbatim above, how should a disciple of the Messiah “support adopting those policies” of Jesus and are they truly a disciple of the Lord with authority over heaven as it is with Earth today if they “never actually practice it themselves”?

    I add that communism was not ever practiced with in everything do to others as you would have others do to you which made it not truly communism as envisioned by Karl Marx. Socialism is practiced throughout the world, often in democracies including ours, successfully and profitably for the economy of the entire nation when not impeded by the controlling self-indulgent. Today our nation is not a democracy of the people, for the people and by the people (as are other nations are more so governed) but is truly an oligarchy.

    oligarchy – noun – a small group of people having control of a country, organization, or institution.

  • Michael Wilson

    Herm, good question buried in there. Truely the number of Christians that share their goods communaly is small. Tiny really. In fact I don’t know of any that do. I’m open to the possibility that authentic Christianity is the practice of virtually none.

    I’m not so pessimistic about our government. People that complain about oligarchy are just mad their small group doesn’t run the nation as opposed to the masses that do. That is they are mad the country isn’t an oligarchy.

  • Herm

    Thank you for even considering me in the millions of “Great Americans” before me!

    There is only one way we will inherit eternal life and that is as “little children of God”.

    There are three attitudes of influence I know for certain as not of God; intimidation, manipulation and subjugation. As to teachers there is only one Rabbi alive and well and fully prepared to teach as all are receptive, all else are false. If you had noticed I never once intimidated, manipulated or subjugated here even as the little child disciple I am of the Messiah, my only true instructor. I am not teaching I am proclaiming the good news that we were not left orphans because the Spirit of Truth is ready to cleanse every heart and mind who will receive Him and from Him we will know the hearts and minds of our Father and our Brother in Heaven. It is from Them that we are taught.

    When we know Jesus and our Father in us and us in our Father and Jesus then we know Their love that precludes any form of eternal conscious punishment in agony. Not all will accept Jesus as their Lord and our Father as their father and they would be a cancerous seed in heaven. They will die a second death and know nothing.

    Throughout the Old and New Testament God has moments of being portrayed as a vindictive God beginning with what those who do not know Them as “the Fall” from grace. Has not the rain continued to fall and the sun to shine on us all? Have we not all been provided the manna we so needed to survive each of our wildernesses?

    We can be no more than very little children in God’s eyes. I can no more teach you than you can teach me. We can learn together as siblings depending on each other bound in love. We can point our siblings to our mature Brother, administrating with all authority as the designated Lord God, to begin learning from the Spirit of Truth residing in their hearts and minds the exact words and feelings meant for each of us to grow up in the Family of God.

    All I can do is point out that according to my life and relationship in the Spirit your fixation with Hell and Damnation for all, who God can only see as little ignorant children making destructive choices, is purely intimidation, manipulation and subjugation that could only come from those children making destructive choices and not our Father. Our Christ chose to die to save us from such a misrepresentation of our creator God as previously portrayed as insisting we defend and die for our God. Our Father loves us all whether or not we can muster the attitude of love for all or not. The dead, even after the second final death, know nothing and will be forgotten, period.

    There is a lot of research and commentary regarding Hell on this blog. If you need to satisfy your intellectual thirst I point you to those discussions available right here. Better than that I point you to the advocate of God:

    ““I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will receive from me what he will make known to you.””
    John 16:12-15

    Love you and wish you peace and joy everlasting! thanks!

  • Robin Warchol

    Herm, I have no clue why you are bringing up a “choice of Jesus or the Israelites “? I did not mention either one. The joke about CNN is “Clinton New network”. My comment was directed at Corey’s in that anti-Catholic evangelicals accept Hannity who states that he is Catholic. As a Catholic and in observation of him and his show through the years, he comes across as more “evangelical” than truly Catholic and that would be probably why they would accept him. Corey didn’t mention Bill OReilly who is also Catholic (at least raised one). Anti-Catholic is usually found in fundamentalist circles as well as some segments of Anabaptist groups.

  • Robin Warchol


  • Herm

    … not from the disciples of Christ does such a small group, though many are called, choose to accept any form of government than that of our benevolent Lord on earth as it is in heaven. No government is worthy if it is not productive and constructive for the whole of its responsibilities. No government can be productive and constructive when the self-indulgent cannot see beyond their own individual profit to be able to invest in the whole of the governed. We have constructive and productive wealthy among us who are not self-indulgent as we know by their fruit because they are not buying special representation to protect only their interests in congress.

  • Herm

    I get it that you don’t have any clue. I am sorry I wasn’t able to bring you to where you could understand what is uncomfortable to our nation proud of its free speech upheld (and balanced) by an adversarial system of justice when you write:

    “But going over to networks like CNN or MSNBC is just as bad in the opposite direction. Polarization works both ways.”

    You just said CNN and MSNBC are just as “bad” in the opposite direction. First adversarial means to counter with opposite opinions. In the case of each of the “Cable News Stations” the final responsible judge is the consumer. I turn to all three you mention and without any bias I can proved the falsehoods put forward as arguments to support their agenda on FOX News daily without exception. To find the falsehoods on CNN and MSNBC it takes much more research and only because each includes much more provable fact than FOX News. CNN and MSNBC each have their own agendas, as does each individual of mankind, but neither displays an intention to deceive the deceivable who will not take the time to prove the falsehoods as does FOX News.

    I am sorry you do not understand enough to realize that if CNN and MSNBC were stating each and every fact exactly as the reporter and camera could capture in precise truth and honesty they would still be polar opposites from your perspective of FOX News. This does not make them equally “bad” just because they’re opposite. A lie should be considered the polar opposite of the truth. It takes a discerning judge willing to go back to find the facts before which is truth can be determined. FOX News audiences very rarely do. CNN and MSNBC audiences mostly do.

    The more “liberal” “progressive” news agencies are labeled such because they are more empathetic and tolerant to each individual situation, in a more similar spirit to Jesus than is the “conservative” news agencies.

    The liberal and progressive Jesus or the conservative Israelites who were so polar opposites they chose to crucify the Christ while Jesus chose to accept crucifixion. They chose to protect their religion even to lie and Jesus chose to offer a relationship in the Spirit of Truth and the Spirit of Truth in all who would in all humility receive Him. Do you at all see the simile between choosing between FOX News and all other news agencies related to choosing between the Israelites and Jesus? … both polar opposites but one is “bad” (destructive to the ignorant yelling, “crucify Him”) and the other is Truth (constructive and productive to the discerning)!

    Love you and I hope this helps some.

  • Robin Warchol

    Herm, nothing your wrote “helps” except to make me think why I even bother with the Progressive channel at all. I think the same sort of “test” can be applied from the liberal side and from what I’ve read mostly on the Progressive channel is more out of the liberal political play book than actual historic Christian views and teaching. I do not like Ann Coulter at all. She is full of herself and condensing to those she disagrees with but after reading what you have replied here almost make me agree with some of her comments about liberals. To claim that ‘conservatives” crucified Christ and not “liberal” is so far out there, it is beyond being even in reality. If “God is not a Republican” then God is not a Democrat, Socialist either. But according to you He is. Don’t reply please, it isn’t worth your or my time.

  • Jon-Michael Ivey

    I have never met the man in person, but I have commented on his Facebook page as he asks viewers to do at the end of his segments. My posts were simply juxtaposing a few of his statements with bible verses that teach the exact opposite.

    Within a few hours he (or whoever runs his page) had deleted the posts and banned me from ever leaving any more comments.

  • bdlaacmm

    I think I’m safe. I had:

    6 NO!!!
    4 no
    1 maybe, and
    1 Huh?

    … but no yeses.

  • Herm

    conservative – adjective;

    1. holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation, typically in relation to politics or religion.

    liberal – adjective;

    1. open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values.

    2. (of education) concerned mainly with broadening a person’s general knowledge and experience, rather than with technical or professional training.

    Comparing only the attitude and teachings of the Messiah and His disciples as versus Caiaphas, the Sadducee, the Pharisees, Pontius Pilate and the crowd yelling crucify the “King of the Jews” which would you discern as more liberal and which more conservative relative to the googled definitions above?

    I said nothing about any political party.

    Had hopes that you might discuss with something more than your opinion which I do respect.

    Who is your Rabbi?

    You are always worth my time and His. Peace and joy to you and yours. Love you!

  • Button

    I figure that Fox News is popular with leftist, understandably enough.

  • Stephen

    Ha, great laugh, ironic humor….a good story…yet I can’t watch Fox anymore, I put a parental password on the channel, and for some reason, I feel a lot better, enjoying life and forgot the password. Thanks for the smile and laugh. Great piece.

  • Donalbain

    He’s a very naughty boy.

  • Valorie

    Fox News is not allowed in most countries. It shouldn’t be allowed to be called a “news” network here. Anyone can buy a network and label it “news” and say whatever they like-they can lie all day long. It is not illegal to misrepresent, lie-whatever.

  • Lark62

    That, and the the convicted con man said his revelation that created that religion came from the angel Moron -i.

    Isn’t that a bit of a clue. He must have laughed all the way to the bank.

  • Lark62

    The message of gleaning is about greed. Do not keep every scrap for yourself. Harvest your fields, enjoy prosperity from your labor, but share some of the excess.

    Kind of like if you are making $300 million a year, and providing basic health insurance to minimum wage employees would cut your income from $300 million to $270 million per year, maybe you should.

  • angel2shine

    Jerry, Amen!!

  • gimpi1

    In the 25th and a half century!

  • gimpi1

    Not many people know this, but Fox News went to court for the right to lie, and they won.

    It went like this; they ordered a reporter to air false information, not so much for political reasons, but to make one of their advertisers (Monsanto) happy. The reporters refused, citing freedom of the press, and the need for an informed society to make democracy work. Fox fired the reporters, the reporters sued. She won, but Fox appealed. claiming a first amendment right (free speech) to air false information, and they won the appeal at the state level. The court ruled that, with all the information-sources available, any one source no longer had an obligation to be accurate, as accurate information was available in other places. They decided that the FCC position against false news is a “policy” not a “rule.” Here’s a link:

  • gimpi1

    Actually, the BBC, the New York Times and such confine opinion to the opinion page and make a valiant effort to report the news objectively. FOX does not.

    If you find the BBC “liberal,” you might not really understand the principle of objective information. News – actual facts – shouldn’t be conservative or liberal.

    Here’s a test: If you think a story on rising sea-levels and the human impact on the environment is “liberal,” you might need to revisit your understanding. Sea-levels are rising, and no serious climate-scientist doubts that human activity is a factor. Exactly how large a factor, and what other factors are in play – those things are still under discussion, but our fossil fuel usage is a part, a large one. These are facts. If you see them as otherwise, you might want to check your sources again.

  • Ouch

  • And nobody noticed…..!

  • Bill

    I think this was written ‘tongue in cheek’, but the sad thing is a lot of folks here have no idea what Fox News really is about, except that it leans right ( conservative) , in opposition to the majority of media which lean left (liberal).

    I am one who appreciates Fox as they provide an alternate perspective, because I appreciate hearing viewpoints from more than one side so I listen to Fox News along with more liberal news outlets. It seems to my that people on this site prefer the liberal slant as does the blogger.instead of demeaning those that disagree with your perspective, try considering both sides, and value both. Whatever conclusion you come up with on any given issue, it will be better than being a narrow-minded ideologue. Also it’s biblical – just and FYI.

    Both ‘liberals’ and ‘conservatives’ fall into the ideologue trap. My advice is to Try valuing the other perspectives – and Listen to it. It can help prevent narrow mindedness. Another idea – listen to an OUS news media outlet like BBC news.

  • Obama drinks a Pepsi

    MSNBC: Obama appeals to Pepsi drinkers in public gesture.
    FOX: Obama declares WAR ON COCA-COLA!
    CNN: Our six member panel is coming up next to discuss the history and relevance of the soft drink preferences of the other presidential candidates
    BBC: Twenty Syrian refugees drowned today as they attempted a desperate flight across the Mediterranean.

  • Walter

    Sorry, but I’m not a regular so I have to ask: what is a progressive Christian? A Christian that thinks abortion is okay?
    And does progressive equate to Democratic party voter?

  • Herm

    progressive – noun – 1. a person advocating or implementing social reform or new, liberal ideas.

    fundamentalism definition – A conservative movement in theology among nineteenth- and twentieth-century Christians. Fundamentalists believe that the statements in the Bible are literally true. Note: Fundamentalists often argue against the theory of evolution.

    conservative – noun – 1. a person who is averse to change and holds to traditional values and attitudes, typically in relation to politics.

    Walter, forgive me but your query seems like it could be a gotcha’ question but I will take you seriously. Using the googled definitions above and my experience commenting on this blog I will try to give you my answer.

    All are welcome here of any political party including none. The predominate feeling here seems to be that we have only one Lord who we maintain singular allegiance to. We have progressive regulars, including the moderator, who do not believe in abortion and some among us who believe in triage to save the most opportunity for life in mankind we can, whether it be the mother, baby or hopefully both. We have many who come in from fundamentalist and conservative church affiliations who share, most often in love, why they disagree with the majority of us who would prefer to move ahead from their exclusive Christianity to what we understand as Christ’s inclusive Christianity.

    You are welcome to share what you feel and think. Who are you?

  • RustbeltRick

    Walter’s comment is enlightening. The question immediately zeroes in on one issue — abortion. For the conservative American evangelical, no other issue matters.

  • RustbeltRick

    If Fox merely provided an alternative perspective, it would be a valuable channel. I’d probably watch it, in fact. But it’s pretty obvious they go further, and traffic in misinformation, innuendo, and fear-mongering. They’re not even trying very hard to hide that.

  • Bill

    I disagree Rustbelt,

    I suggest you listen/watch their NEWS programs (not the opinion segments from 7pm-12pm). Their opinion programs do not disguise that they are opinion segments and present information and conclusions (‘facts’) from their perspective which admittedly could present a distorted view, but that is true of any opinion segment (liberal or conservative). My guess is any of us who listen to opinion segments tend to choose the ones we agree with and then any others are misinformation. I like to hear both sides of a story, because it helps my understand a whole issue better.

  • Bill


    Seriously? Come on man. He asks a question about a definition of progressive and you choose to mislabel another group.Anger issues – maybe?

  • RustbeltRick

    He asked, “what is a progressive Christian?”, but then offered his own answer, making it obvious that the answer needs to center on a yes/no answer on abortion.

  • RustbeltRick

    Your view of Fox is much kinder than mine. Even if you take a Fox news story at face value, you have to step back and ask questions about what topics are being covered, how they are framed, and how news is weighted. Their 24/7 all-Benghazi-all-the-time coverage, which lasted for years, would lead one to wonder why that network, more than others, felt that the story was worth so much airtime. Either Fox overplayed the story, or all the other networks downplayed it. And if Fox overplayed it, what would be the purpose of that? And in the Benghazi stories, who is Fox choosing to interview, and who are they not talking to? It doesn’t take a PhD in media studies to understand the network’s goals and their larger agenda.

  • Bill

    This is true.

    However, one could also make the point that perhaps the other news outlets are skewed and ask – why didn’t they cover the Benghazi story more? Were there really other more pressing news stories at the time? It seems to me there were legitimate issues that could have been discussed and closed out quicker if admin officials had just addressed it directly.

    Having said that, they do what the other ‘news outlets’ do – give stories that they care about more weight and air time. I think there’s enough evidence to show that in general media outlets are skewed left. Fox’s right wing slant is a bit refreshing in that way – and help me to get the whole perspective. I

    n any debate you have two sides – one believes and presents one side of the argument, and the other presents the opposite view. This is what Fox provides – the other side.

    Lastly, I really prefer bbc news over any USA version. It is SO refreshing to get news without the political emotion that comes from media outlets in the USA.

  • Bill

    Yeah Maybe. However, I’m betting that the typically US citizen only understands faith based issues or viewpoints from the political hot buttons which the media covers most (all about ratings – news outlets are just businesses trying to make a buck too). So for someone asking about Christianity the two most likely would be Abortion and Homosexuality – so my guess is an average person asking about it, wanting to understand the differences between two forms would ask about one of those two things. To expect them to go into the real faith issues and core beliefs of love, forgiveness and the application of these, would be a lot to expect on a site like this.

  • Walter

    You assume much Padawan. I’m not American, nor am I evangelical. I may just be conservative though, but that’s still open for interpretation as I figure out where I would fit in best to your frame of reference.
    I do know that I feel abortion is a massive issue as it applies to humanity in general and to Christians specifically.
    I wouldn’t feel comfortable being labelled a “progressive” when progressive Christians feel that it is an issue that is easily swept aside, and if I was American I would not feel comfortable voting for a political party that seems to condone it.

  • Nerdsamwich

    If we really had a liberal media, we’d know a lot more about white-collar crime, and a lot less about the “War on Christianity”. Here’s a list of a few more things the average person would more informed about if the liberal media were more than legend:

  • ccws

    Why I watch BBC.

  • ccws

    If the mainstream media were anywhere within screaming distance of “liberal,” they’d be reporting on economic inequality and Bernie Sanders’s run for the Presidency to reverse the losses of the last 35 years. Instead, the spotlight is on The Donald’s bigotry and the manufactured outrage over Hillary Clinton’s emails.

    If the MSM are “liberal,” the “Bernie Blackout” is simply inexplicable. I was almost shocked a couple of days ago to see the CBS Evening News lead off with the fact that Bernie had pulled ahead of Hillary in New Hampshire, and it took a write-in campaign by Bernie supporters to make the New York Times agree to reassess its relative non-coverage of Bernie.

    Yeah, “liberal media.” Right. Long live the BBC!

  • Richard White

    I served in the U.S. Army in Military Intelligence from 1969 to 1996. While the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact were still functioning, one of my jobs, being bilingual in English and German, was to watch East German television, listen to East German radio broadcasts and read East German newspapers and magazines to see what one of the United States’ enemies was up to.

    Today, being retired, I watch FOX-“News” on television; listen to radio stations which air Rush Limbaugh, Laura Ingram and other Fox “news” shows and read the Boston Herald newspaper which is owned by Rupert Murdoch. Why? Because I want to see what one of the United States’ enemies, and one of Christianity’s enemies, are up to

  • ccws

    There’s nothing to the Benghazi story – except that the Republican Congress cut the guts out of embassy security funding and then blamed the President and the State Department when four Americans died. Meanwhile, dozens died in embassy attacks under prior administrations, and not a peep of “blame the home team” out of the Great Spin Machine. Move along, nothing to see here…

  • ccws

    Stop it!! My buddy and I are DYING over here!!! Game over – we have a WINNER!!! +80!!! *lying on the floor, gasping for breath, pumping fists in the air*

    p.s. You’re a better man than I am, Gunga Din…

  • eaprez

    If you don’t believe in abortion than don’t have one. If you believe abortion is a sin remember what Jesus says about keeping tabs on other peoples sins.

  • eaprez

    Liberal media is a right wing lie.

  • ccws

    Not that abortion is “okay” – I don’t know anyone who’s had one and thought it was anything but traumatic – but

    [1] that by following Jesus in feeding the hungry, housing the homeless, healing the sick (and its modern counterpart, providing preventative health care services including contraception), caring for the stranger, and treating everyone with dignity, we create a good world where every child born will be wanted, loved, and well provided for; and

    [2] that part of human dignity is the realization that control of a woman’s body is not only her right but her responsibility, that sometimes contraceptives fail, and that no one but she should be allowed to decide, within the full context of her life, what to do when that happens.

    In general, I’d say progressives consider that any legal “right” to life becomes a consideration at viability – the ability to live outside of parasitic dependence on another body, regardless of when we may think “life” per se begins (at conception? at viability? at first breath? we’re all over the lot on that). But I’ve known Christians whose general views were “progressive” (see[1]) but who were solidly anti-abortion except in case of rape, incest, or danger to the pregnant woman’s life.

    By me, it’s a question of “what KIND of life.” I think that bringing a child into the world without being able to ensure that it will be greatly loved and well cared for is a far greater sin than terminating a pregnancy, and that refusal to respect a woman’s prior claim to her own body before fetal viability is simply inhuman. YMMV; AWYSB.

  • ccws

    Truth has been spoken.

  • Walter

    It’s a bit of a leap going from not judging someone for their sins to actively supporting them in the undertaking of sin wouldn’t you say?

  • Walter

    Thank you, I appreciate your thoughtful reply.

  • ccws

    You’re welcome.

  • tomcfuller

    “Inhuman?” “What KIND of life”? Who is a promiscuous, irresponsible mother to determine what KIND of life her child will have? “Parasitic?” We’re all “parasitic,” but that doesn’t give anyone the right to kill us. Your thinking is fraught with “progressive” rationalization, in my opinion. Hand the baby to loving, adoptive parents. Give her to me. That’s all you have to do. I’ll take care of the rest. Because some abortions might be necessary doesn’t mean all abortions should be permitted and even encouraged. No parent should have the right to kill her child, simply because she doesn’t love her. Certainly there is a gray line, but it isn’t where our culture has drawn it.

  • Investigator

    What a truly offal article. Is this supposed to help the body of Christ? His statement here:

    “Or, perhaps you actually bought the Duck Commander Study Bible, or the American Patriot’s Bible, both of which would be functional equivalents. Either way, Jesus saw you purchase that.”

    So, purchasing a Bible would some how, by inference, be frowned upon by Jesus? I was a Christian 20 years before Fox news came on the scene but the condescending attitude here leads ME to wonder, is this author really a representative of the body of Christ?

    How does tearing down the body of Christ help the Church? Regardless of your political party, his is anything but a Christ-like attitude.

  • Investigator

    “…and that refusal to respect a woman’s prior claim to her own body before fetal viability is simply inhuman.”

    Why the focus on fetal viability, what difference does it make? If a woman has a “prior claim to her own body” why should the viability of the unborn child change the equation?

    How do you feel about the butchery going on in Planned Parenthood and the selling of body parts?

    “…the ability to live outside of parasitic dependence on another body…”

    What about those who have been born but cannot live without dependence on others for every aspect of their lives?

    These are serious questions, not snarky quips meant to embarrass.

  • Investigator

    The above statement can be made for all sorts of terrible and inhumane acts of barbarism.

    Don’t believe in owning slaves, then don’t own one.
    Don’t believe in murdering (fill in the blank) don’t do it.

  • Investigator

    Really? Is there a conservative media? How would you characterize MSNBC?

  • Proud Amelekite

    [So, purchasing a Bible would some how, by inference, be frowned upon by Jesus?]

    Considering the American Patriot’s Bible contains deliberate falsehood in the quoting of historical figures in American history, and the Duck Bible is just the Duck Dynasty family reprinting a King James Bible in order to cash in on God, I would guess so. Unless Jesus is a hypocrite or an imbecile.

  • Proud Amelekite

    I’ll give a few simple answers since many have been snarky about it.

    [I have to ask: what is a progressive Christian? A Christian that thinks abortion is okay?]

    A Christian with a more liberal lean, fiscally and/or socially. They are not always both, of course, though some are. It is a varied group.

    Think of it this way: what is a conservative Christian? The answer also varies. The Catholic style Christian tends to be conservative on issues of homosexuality and abortion, but you would be hard pressed to find anyone who considers a guy like Pope Francis a conservative when it comes to his views on immigration, the death penalty, or the environment. A Southern Baptist might be pro-death penalty by comparison – see what I mean?

    [And does progressive equate to Democratic party voter?]

    Generally speaking, yes, though it can vary. Some brands of Libertarian, Green Party, Independent, and Socialists can also fit this mold.

  • Investigator

    “…Patriot’s Bible contains deliberate falsehood in the quoting of historical figures in American history…”

    Such as?

    “…Duck Dynasty family reprinting a King James Bible in order to cash in on God…”

    Do they just hand out King James Bibles for free at your local Christian Book store? Does CBD send them to you without charging you?

    Why do you assume the worst of the Duck Dynasty family?

  • BrokenBell

    Having said that, they do what the other ‘news outlets’ do – give stories that they care about more weight and air time. I think there’s enough evidence to show that in general media outlets are skewed left. Fox’s right wing slant is a bit refreshing in that way – and help me to get the whole perspective. I

    n any debate you have two sides – one believes and presents one side of the argument, and the other presents the opposite view. This is what Fox provides – the other side.

    …Sorry, when your “two sides” of a debate consists of one news organisation vs. almost all other news organisations, you don’t have two sides, and you don’t have a debate. You have a loose spectrum of priorities and perspectives that vary somewhat in their politics, and one Don Quixote. At a certain point, being “fair and balanced” means accepting that none of those windmills are going to turn into giants, no matter how many hearings on Benghazi you hold.

  • Proud Amelekite

    [Such as?]

    Claiming George Washington said things he actually didn’t, taking the words of Thomas Jefferson (a deist) out of historical context to make points he didn’t mean, and so on. It is the common history revisionism of glossing over the deism of many of the founding fathers to make a specific point that the nation and it’s founders were uniformly Christian in nature.

    Similar, albeit less egregious, to the Pink Swaztika put out by Scott Lively which attempted to gloss over Nazi warcrimes against homosexuals while also attempting to blame Nazism on homosexuality.

    [Do they just hand out King James Bibles for free at your local
    Christian Book store? Does CBD send them to you without charging you?]

    No, but that is a strawman argument anyways. There is already a KJ Bible. The only reason you would put out a new one with your own twist is if you were looking to make money using God to support your own vanity. Not much different then selling faith healing.

    [Why do you assume the worst of the Duck Dynasty family?]

    I assume the worst of everyone. In these cases, though, you have bearing false witness and using God’s name in vain. The latter means little to me, of course. May not mean much to you either. The former is more problematic, though.

  • Bill

    Try to remember, democracy is dependent on news organizations reporting on information. The average peeson has not the time nor the inclination or resources to dig into issues and find out information themselves. Every form of government that is not democracy exists first by controlling news outlets – and people’s information. I frankly am shocked that people on Patheos seem not to value diverse viewpoints and instead demogauge anything/anyone/any organization that presents a view they disagree with.

    In Benghazi we list an ambassador, and I the Americans. There is evidence the administration – lead by then secretary Hillary Clinton now a leading candidate for president – first broadcast unturned information about the cause and then covered up the real cause. That wouldn’t be a big issue except the admin had information in time and stopped support which likely would have prevented the loss. Now it’s beginning to look like they’ve spent tons of energy and time covering it up. If you don’t think it’s a story, ok – butter family members of those that died think it is, and I do too.

    Again, I very much value alternative perspectives and FOX News is one of the sources I use. It seems many on thus site are as narrow minded as the ones they oppose – those ‘narrow minded conservatives’. It seems to me the ones on sites like this are more arrogant about their views. I was hoping for better, especially from the blogger – Mr. Corey.

  • Bill

    I disagree – not sure what special insight you have on this, but the family members that lost their loved ones also want to hear more. It’s always been interesting how those that support a certain perspective are okay with like minded leaders who cover up, aren’t transparent and refuse accountability – and therefore nothing will be learned from mistakes.

    I’m happy there are news outlets like FOX as well as the others – we in a democracy really need them all.

  • Bill

    How would you characterize them?

  • BrokenBell

    Yes, the role of news outlets in aggregating and disseminating current events is incredibly vital. All the more reason why we have to demand that they maintain a high standard of honesty, integrity, and an understanding of historical context that allows the average person to watch a report and come away with a solid grasp of what happened and why it’s significant. It’s not a matter of disagreement or worldview, it’s a matter of Fox demonstrably, tangibly failing to conduct themselves as journalists, or even as respectable adults.

    Case in point: nothing has been found about Benghazi to suggest any kind of lies, cover-ups, or failures to act. There have been multiple – multiple – investigative comittees and hearings, led by die-hard republican congressmen who would have loved nothing more than to expose any hint of failure by the Obama white house in general or even just Clinton specifically, that have combed through all the data, everything that was said publicly, everything that was discussed in private, every executive decision that was made, and what did they find? Nothing. Literally nothing. Months and years of investigation and testimonies and scrutiny, lead by people who were deeply suspicious of the white house and vowed to drag every last dirty detail out into the light, and their final judgement was that the embassy probably should have gotten better funding from the state department.

    Those are the facts of the matter. Those aren’t my skewed liberal assumptions of what should have happened, that is my mocking liberal summary of what actually, literally, factually happened. If Fox has an alternative explanation for the plethora of reports that already exist, I would love to hear it, because as best I can remember, once we had several different committees concluding no foul play, once the evidence started to go against their years of aggressive “reporting” about cover-ups and scandals and impeachment, they dropped the story like it had all been an angry dream. Years of outrage, closed out like a wet fart.

    And then we come to you: an informed citizen, champion of intellectual diversity and alternative perspectives, operating on a higher level than the rest of us arrogant, narrow-minded demagogues, and yet your knowledge about this terribly important story is out of date by at least one full year, and lags farther still behind the rest of us close-minded fools, who were satisfied with a mere two committees concluding that there was no cover-up by the end of 2012. This is what your self-righteously credulous and uncritical acceptance of Fox News as a legitimate news source does for you: it renders you unable to distinguish between actual information and fabricated outrage. And that’s a much more pressing threat to our democracy than hypothetical government mind control.

  • Bill

    Yeah – I think you missed the whole point. I don;t have an axe to grind about the Benghazi situation. You sort of read into it what you wanted there, but otherwise a decent post.

    Yes – I value FOX News, and I also value the other news outlets. You’re welcome to choose which ones to listen to. I prefer alternative views. I guess my incredibly out of date thought on Benghazi is really strange, since Hillary Clinton is going to testify before a congressional subcommittee. Again, I don;t see any smoking ghin – but the families who lost their loved ones think there is information missing, and so does congress. You can call it political or whatever, but perhaps their views are just as valid as yours – and – since we really are all USA citizens, is it possible the different perspectives each come with distortions and truth intermingled – since we are ALL just human? I prefer to keep them all and sort through it myself.

    I tried to explain my views – many here have shared their alternative views. I understand where you’re coming from based on what you said, hopefully vice versa is true. That’s really all this discussion is going to accomplish – I haven’t heard anything here that has added information which I would change my approach and it doesn’t sound like any of you have either….it really isn’t about changing the other’s thinking as much as learning – thanks for sharing.


  • Investigator

    Humorously, to the left of Joe Stalin.

    There is another news station called One America News or OAN, that has conservative commentators but also has just straight news.
    Interestingly, one of their commentators, a VERY young and sharp blonde gal, because she is conservative, is often called a “blonde bimbo”by the very kinds of folks that claim Republicans have a war on women.
    Sorry, I just went to pull up some of those attacks against her and found that she just left OAN…still a great news station with VERY few commercials.

    If you are interested in just a few comments about her from the “politically correct” crowd, see the comments in the article below:

  • Bill

    Thanks for the info – no I never heard of her.

  • Investigator

    “…glossing over the deism of many of the founding fathers to make a specific point that the nation and it’s founders were uniformly Christian in nature.”

    It is beyond dispute that the nation AND its FFs were almost uniformly Christian. TJ claimed to be a Christian though his views on some key doctrines were at odds with Christian doctrine…like some on this website.

    Why do you think our nation has celebrated Christian holidays? Observe the Christian Sabbath? Has Chaplains in government and the military? Why did TJ, as president, put the Bible as one of the main text books in the DC school system? Why did the first 8 presidents pursue a policy of church building through treaty and in some cases, use public funds to pay for priests for the Indians?

    By 1896, Congress was appropriating annually over $500,000 in support of sectarian Indian education carried on by religious organizations. This expenditure of public money appropriated by Act of Congress for over a century following the ratification of the First Amendment constitutes absolute proof that for over a century neither Congress nor the religious leaders interpreted the First Amendment to mean a prohibition of the use of public funds by Congress in aid of religion and religious education.

    Why was a thoroughly Christian book (New England Primer) used as a text book before, during, and for some 100 years after the First Amendment?

    Why did Washington, Adams, and Madison, as president, offer days of public prayer, humiliation, and fasting?

    Perhaps your lack of familiarity with Bibles has led you to some false conclusions. The text of the KJV Bible, or the NIV is the same. The reason people put out themed versions is for those who are interested in the theme presented. Some Bibles are study Bibles that include commentary (which can include text on addressing specific problems the church faces), concordance, an index of topics, or perhaps a red letter addition. Even if the sole reason for putting one out is to make money, why would that be a problem? No one is forced to buy it and who goes into business expecting to make zero profit? Is making a profit immoral?

  • Proud Amelekite

    [Is making a profit immoral?]

    No, but making a profit off of God can be, depending on how you choose to interpret “Though shall not use the name of God in vain”. Using God as part of a swear word, as many Americans have interpreted it, is a very novel, lazy interpretation and one not supported by Jewish tradition.

    [Why do you think our nation has celebrated Christian holidays? Observe the Sabbath?]

    It would be more correct to say that the nations people celebrated these holidays. The nation does not enforce an adherence to Christmas or Easter. Nor has there ever been a federal law banning work on the Sabbath.

    [Has Chaplains in government and the military?]

    More the nations people who were, once upon a time, mostly Christian. We now have other types of chaplains.

    [Why did TJ, as president, put the Bible as one of the main text books in the DC school system?]

    Because it was a readily available way to teach English that most people were familiar with. Thomas Jefferson was a pragmatist. That is clear in his writing.

    [Why did the first 8 presidents pursue a policy of church building through treaty and in some cases, use public funds to pay for priests for the Indians?]

    Because it was the most effective way to subjugate and erase the native population. Britain did the same in Africa for one hundred years.

    Christ is a powerful psychological weapon. Perfect, really. He speaks to the beleaguered, the weak, the disaffected, the dominated; he teaches them to turn the other cheek, to love those who hate them, and promises them paradise if they follow in his footsteps.

    Supporting something with money and supporting something ideologically are two different things. If I were faced with a new continent covered in technologically stunted natives and tasked with somehow taking this land and the resources from them, I would also support the expansion of Christianity among them in order to break their spirit and reduce my own casualties.

    Wouldn’t you?

    Thomas Jefferson was pretty clearly deist. You can see it in his writing and his Jefferson Bible. He cuts out all the “priestcraft” and miracles, leaving behind a Jesus who is merely a man. A great man, but a man.

  • seashell

    Not going to refute all the half truths or outright false claims in this comment, except about Jefferson and the Bible in public schools. Apparently, you’re a fan of David Barton, a regular fountain of misinformation in American History. But this one is easy. Jefferson’s plan for schools in Virginia didn’t involve the Bible, and if DCs plans in 1805 followed his VA plan, there would have been no mention of the Bible. 1n 1812, 3 years after TJ left DC, the schools started following a different curriculum started by a British guy, that did involve the Bible, but not Jefferson himself.

    You are so wrong about Congress and the presidents spending money to evangelize the Natives. Read any credible history book for the real information. Anybody but Barton, really.

    You do Christianity and American History no favors by touting such false claims. You call yourself the Investigator – so go Investigate.

  • Logan

    Right to Life groups do not differentiate between a desire to be rid of an unwanted child and a woman who has been raped or whose life is in danger through no fault of her own. I believe most, given the choice, would vote for a moderate law, and leaving leeway for stupid, underage children who don’t always know better, thanks to radically limited sex education policies or laws in some places.

  • Made of the Cosmos


  • jontrott

    Some good (and some awful) comments here. I wanted to note, however, that the “Amalekete” / “Amalekite” poster here is likely a neo-nazi sympathizer. That term has to do with the belief that whiteness and Christianity are linked, and that interracial marriages are immoral, and that… well, I wrote an article about it recently:

  • Michael Doherty

    Do not understand your comment, help me out. Why would anyone need a reprint of the KJB by the duck dynasty family??? Why would you put your last name on a Bible!!!!!, Maybe you are looking in the wrong place for a Bible, you assume the bookstore is the only place, most decent churches give free bibles to new members and however needs one, My father a missionary in Mexico founder a correspondence bible school, never charged for over 2,000,000 courses or the 500,000 bibles he gave. Assume the worst, base your Christianity on actions, and keep them secret.

  • Michael Doherty

    Matthew 6:2-4New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    2 “So when you [a]give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 3 But when you [b]give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your [c]giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.

  • James Cannon

    I did not become a Christian until I was 13 years old. I have never once paid for a copy of a Bible in any form. I have always been given Bibles and prayer books.

  • James Cannon

    Churches will. Many Christians will. I am 38 years old, and I became a Christian at 13 years old. I have never paid for a Bible. I have never walked into a Walmart or a Book store looking for one. And most often, when someone does try to buy one, they have no clue as to what they are trying to get to the frustration of that poor retail employee trying to help them.

  • James Cannon

    That is not saying to not help the poor. Fox News and right wing America are very specifically saying not to help the poor and needy.
    They come up with excuses to support this, like claiming its the poor’s fault that they are poor, or this gem about just stop being poor. Fox news has some pretty terrible and unrealistic views about America’s poor and middle classes.

  • James Cannon

    Yes, the founding fathers WERE indeed Christians, some were also Quakers and Atheists. However, if you were to look at history, there is this little gem about the UK, that everyone had to be the same denomination as the king. This meant that an Episcopalian would be breaking the law if the king were Roman Catholic. That is why we have the Freedom of Religion. That is why we have the right to practice whatever religion we want and why it is to be kept out of government. How would you feel if someone made the claim that the US was founded on Satanism or Wicca? Imagine how people who follow those religions feel when you say Christianity has got to be in Government? It is one of many reasons the US broke away from the UK. I believe that religion should not be in any ruling entity until Jesus Christ returns. I believe religion should be between you and your God, and no one else. Invite others? Absolutely. Live to God’s will? Absolutely. But force your beliefs and way of life onto others? Absolutely NOT.

  • Christopher Troy

    Fun fact: the most shoplifted item in retail is the Bible. As a 10-year employee of bookstores, I can confirm this. Apparently theft is perfectly fine as long as yer spreadin’ the good news of Jebus! It seems to be a ‘thing’ for Christians to not pay for Bibles.

  • Bones

    Lol….the bimbo got sacked…..

    But she’s still out there cheering Trump on.

    It’s weird that media commentators have become cheer leaders.

  • Kat Stewart

    And yet it sort of fits, doesn’t it?

  • sgillesp

    What if it did?

  • razajac

    I remember an issue of the old “The Door” Christian satire magazine… the theme of the issue was “Liberal Christianity”. They interviewed a pastor who’d been getting some attention as a guy who was leading his flock in liberal ways… tending to the sick, caring for the need; he may have even had an international outreach (not sure). Anyway, he had the *perfect* answer to the accusation that he was a “librul”: He said, “God is a liberal”.

    And he goes on to describe what he saw as the manifest liberality of God. For example (he said), God makes “too much” of everything. He made too many stars, too much space, too many species, too many of them are delicious, etc., etc. And the guy goes on to paint a portrait which helped you flesh in the analogy: If you love as Christ loved, you have more love than you can even give away for free.

  • raysusan49

    You posted this 3 years ago so I’m rather late to this party. May I suggest you delve a bit deeper into what Rupert Murdoch has been up to not only in his past but within recent times as well. Try looking into when he worked with the CIA, MI6, using his media empire within his native country of Australia to spread lies and propaganda to run a coup ‘d eta and unseat the 2nd Term of the popular democratically, elected Prime Minister Golf Whitlam. If you were to ask a fellow Aussie they might tell you it was when Australia lost it’s Independence and the citizens lost theirs as well. This coup was to involve murders, the Nugan Hand Bank collapse, as well as exposing the CIA with drug running and profiteering, along with illegal weapons sells to M. Qaddafi in Libya.

    Rupert Murdoch has also played his part in “A Constitutional Crisis” in Great Britten as well.

    Then there was the case of “A very Australian coup: Rupert Murdoch, Malcolm Turnbull and the power of News Corp.” Maybe you and, “My buddy,” should do some reading before *….. laughing and pumping fists*

    Murdoch would be considered a traitor by ppl like yourself. Yet here he is in the good old US of A, doing some of the exact same things he’s been doing in his once native home of Australia and the U. K.. Oh btw, he’s now a dual Israeli/American citizen and if you don’t know what all Israeli citizen’s motto happen to be it’s, “ISRAEL FIRST” Enjoy your laughs, hopefully soon you’ll be horrified. YouTube has many Documentaries on their site.

  • raysusan49

    Then there’s always the problematic, it’s a Constitutional Right. It’s not something I personally would chose to have an abortion, but I also would not support taking away someone else’s Rights away. *Most* Conservative’s should know all about Rights they hold dear. Prolly more dear than most of the other Rights; the 2nd Amendment. Yet seem not at all bothered by taking away another person’s Constitutional Rights. So, in spite of it being a Constitutional Right, they squeeze and squeeze making it more than problematic for women to obtain the reproductive health services she’s been granted. It has also caused the much larger portion of poorer women and men to be cut off from cancer screening, mammograms, pap smears, and an entire range of other health services having nothing to do with abortion.

  • Walter

    Except it’s not in your constitution, amended or otherwise. So, there’s that.

  • raysusan49

    Hmmm, did you maybe not consider angel12shine aka “Darlene,” was shouting for joy, or for the ppl in the far back of the room, or even for the deaf among us? I’ll stop there, as this isn’t intended as as judgement but is for possible consideration. (Yep, I do know about internet say-so, so-say; moot.)

  • StlSaxist

    It really takes some guts to question that.

  • raysusan49

    Sorry about your luck Walter. About your failure to have an education adequate enough to play on these threads, that is. A simple Google search would have informed you how very wrong you are. Nice bluff though. Just bc you may not have the smarts to use Google, I’ll just rat-ah-tat-tat it out as best as I remember it. You ready to eat some Crow now, Walter? “Women have the *Right* to *privacy* under the *Due* *Process* *Clause* of the *14**th* *Amendment*” “So, there’s that.”

  • Walter

    LOL! Wow, what a zinger. And to think, it only took you two months to come up with it.
    And no, it’s not actually in there at all. You’re thinking about the Roe vs Wade argument that talks of an “implicit” right to privacy.
    The actual amendment doesn’t even have the word “woman,” or “women,” or “female” in it.
    Maybe you should follow your own advice and do a fair amount of reading before you unleash your ignorance on the world, sweetheart.
    While you’re at it, do some reading up on Saltwater Spinal Needle Injections, Uterine Curettes, and Embryotomy Scissors.
    Looking forward to your reply in two months time.

  • raysusan49

    Your ridiculous reply only points out that once again your inability to comprehend let alone think in any manner other than to support your overly emotionally and very wrong-headed position.

    I’ll give you a hint. You have “privacy rights” within you home, etc, and that “Privacy” also extends to your Lawyer, Priest/Minister, as well as your Physicians. ALL are considered covered under the 14th and require a warrant from a US Court to compel entry or disclosure. PERIOD!

    Roe vs Wade would have been overturned years ago if indeed it wasn’t by a reasonable decision of a SCOTUS that clearly stated in it’s concurring opinion and weak dissenting opinion, to be covered under the 14th. Please don’t bother replying bc I already know you didn’t bother reading either the case as it was presented, or either of the Court’s opinions. Most likely you are just as ignorant of those as well. And I’m also just as sure your bruised or even a non-existent ego, will recover from being wrong.

    You expressed your opinionated “opinion” only, on both occasions within your comments, which neither has a basis in law what-so-ever, nor do either comment of yours posses a basis in reality. But nice try dumb ass. Now run along and argue your delusional opinions within your own government, as I’m sure they need your input as a citizen of your country more than the USA does. Now shoo!

  • Walter

    “Here’s a bloated, straw-man argument for you. Don’t bother replying.” – you
    Me – Okay.

  • raysusan49

    Do you even know what a “Strawman” is, let alone what it’s application looks like? Obviously not!

  • Walter

    LOL! You just don’t know when to quit, do you lady? Do you find that your husband often refers to you as a “nag?”
    Maybe it’s time you followed your own advice, and “shoo.”

  • raysusan49

    ……….. sigh.
    Yet, here you are … again, attempting to project all your ‘bad’ on me.

    Srry ’bout your luck, Wallie … But not really.

  • raysusan49

    Great link. I’ll just update a bit if you don’t mind?? The latest is, the Smith-Mundt Act was repealed. This was enacted just after WW ll. It’s intention was to protect the US citizens from propaganda, lies, misinformation, etc. Our government realized the power these subversive ‘news’ reports could be to entire nations and vast swaths of ppl and therefore that Act was the governments attempt to protect the citizens of this Nation. Of course much later during the “Church Committee Hearings,” we learned of the CIA’s Operation Mockingbird, and that TV and movies as being it’s most productive method of disseminating it’s propaganda. Which btw, even after the ‘discovery’ through these House and Senate Sub-Committee Hearings, the CIA never did stop Operation Mockingbird as it was ordered to by Congress. (which is a perfect example of a good old American Psy-Ops) This was when I turned off my Tella-Lie-Vision and strictly monitored my children’s TV watching habits as well as all movies.

    “The Smith-Mundt Modernization Act” effectively repealed any attempt to stop propaganda, etc, from being aired on American MSM outlets. This happened under the Obama Administration and was inserted into the Constitutionally crushing, NDAA, with a very healthy bi-partisan vote I might add.

    I would imagine that’s why we have often heard from the various news readers usually with that slight sick smile, the phrase we’re now living in “The Post-Truth Era.”

    None of this has ever mattered to Rupert Murdoch. Now IF you have an interest you might like to mosey over the YouTube and search for something like, “Rupert Murdoch worked with the CIA, MI6, and Aussie Intelligence to run a soft coup on a very popular 2nd Term Prime Minister of Australia, Golph Whitlam” OR just Google… lol There was even a movie about this, “The Falcon And The Snowman.”

  • Walter


  • John Beasley

    I’m a right-wing type but I never watch Fox. Passed this test with flying colors. I thought the Catholic bit was funny, though. I used to be like that, too, but then God made a fool out of me – I became a Catholic!