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J. Krishnamurti – Bombay (Mumbai) 1985 – Public Q&A 1 – Video
J. Krishnamurti – Bombay (Mumbai) 1985 – Public Q&A 1 – Transcript
Krishnamurti: It is a bit early in the morning isn’t it.Several questions have been put- here they are.I haven’t looked at them.It is important one thinks to put questions.To really enquire into the nature of the questionsand why we put questionsand to whom do we put the question.Do we put the question to find an answer from somebodyor do we put questions to ourselves?If we put questions to ourselvesfrom what depthor superficially we put the questions to ourselves.And where do we find the answer to our questionsto our problemsto our various complex ways of life?Is it something outside of usor is it something that we have to delve very deeply to find out?We don’t know what these questions are.We will go into them presently.Is the question importantand does the answer to the questionlie in the question itself?I hope we are meeting this.Is the answer outside the questionor the answer is in the question itself?You understand my question?And how do we approach a question?With a desire to find an answer?With a motive?Or put a question without a motive?Is that possible?I don’t know if we are meeting each otherare we?Or is it too early in the morning?I hope you had a nice sleep.We are asking whether the answer is outside the questionor in the question itself.If it is outside for somebody to answerthen the question is not significantbut if the question is seriousand therefore the question itself has the answer.Right?We are going to find that outbecause we are going to investigate the question not the answer.Can we go along with this?Suppose one has a problem.We are always wanting to find out the solution of the problemthe resolution of it.But if we begin to understand the nature of the problemwhat the implications of the problem arehow the problem aroseand investigate the problem- in that very process of investigation of the problemthe solution is in the problem.We are going to do that. May we?We are not going to answer the question.Probably the answer will come outwhen we look at the question closely.1st Question: In spite of all my lovecare and attentionI don’t know where I lack in bringing up my daughter.Can you throw some light on the best way of educating a child?In spite of all my love care and attentionI don’t know where I lackin bringing up my daughter.Can you throw some light on the best way of educating a child?Right?Are you all parents?Probably if you are not parents you might want oneyou might want to be.We ought to enquire togetherinto what we mean by educating a child.What do we mean by education?We are all very well educated apparentlyand what is the nature of a mother or a fatherin bringing up the child?That is really the question.You may love the child or you may not.You may want the child as he grows upto become an engineeror a scientist a physicistor some kind of career like your own.And generally that is the ambition of parents.Right?Do we see this?And the parents generally want their children to followtheir own particular patternor establish a pattern of lifethat is suitable for their livelihoodand so on so on.So we ought to talk over togetherthe question: what is education?Why education has become so incredibly difficult.Why as they grow up and if they are fortunate enoughto go through college and university and get a degreethen search for a jobget married childrenand the whole circus beginsthe whole problem begins.So the question is what do we mean by education?Is it a holistic educationor only career-minded education?You understand my question?If I have a childand all the problems of bringing up a childif one has affectiontenderness care- we always want to use the childeither as a kind of doll -you understand what I am saying?Don’t you know what a doll is?Don’t we use our children to satisfy ourselves?No?Gosh you are rather silent this morning.I am askingdo we educate a child to face the whole problem of lifethe whole complex divisive way of lifeor do we educate them to have a good memorymemory that they have accumulatedduring the 15 20 or 30 years of educationand then exercise those memoriesto acquire a skill and a job.And we neglect totally the other side of lifethe psychological side of life.And we are asking is education lopsided or holistic?You understand my question?Right sir?What is holistic education?And what is partial educationlimited education?The limited education is what is being done now- memorizing memorizing memorizingnot learning.There is a difference between learning and memorizing.Memorizing is fairly comparatively easy- go to a schoollearn all about history geographyphysics science and so onand you memorisebook after book what the educator says.So it is stored up in the brain as knowledgeacquired through books and so on.That is what modern education is.And all through life that is in operation.We are asking why do we neglectthe whole area of the psychological fieldwhich is immensely important?Right?Is our education merely concerned with earning a joblivelihood and so onor is it concerned with helping a human beingto live a way of life in which there is no divisionas the world and the psychological field?You understand?Is this possible?Is there any school or any university in the worldthat they are doing this?That is to cultivate the brain as a whole not a part of it.Are we meeting somewhere together?We are asking is it possiblefor the cultivation of the whole brainnot part of it.To understand this we have to investigatethe whole structure of our consciousnessif you are willing to go into all that.The speaker- he is not saying this out of vanityor some kind of freakishness -has never read any philosophical booknor read the Gita Upanishads and all the business of it.Why should you?Why should you be burdened with all the knowledgeof what previous writers previous thinkers previous peoplewho have experienced so-called religious – and so onwhy should you read all that?Because we are askingaren’t you the story of mankind?You understand my question?Aren’t you the history of mankind?You understand my question?Aren’t you as a human beingyou are the book of mankind.If you know how to read that bookthen you don’t have to read any other bookexcept perhaps learn technological knowledgeto earn a livelihood.Are we thinking together a little bit?How do we approach this questionwhether it is possible to cultivate the entire brainand not one part of it alone.That is the real question of education.Is it possible for the brainwhich has lived over three and a half million yearsaccording to the latest scientific statementsthat brain which has accumulated tremendous knowledgethat brain which began with the animaland all the fears and the anxieties of an animalis still within our consciousness. Right?No you don’t agree – please don’t agree to anything I am saying.Just listen to it.Our consciousness our braincontains all the animalistic reactionsfears all that.That is part of our hereditybecause we have come from the ape and so on.And that is part of our consciousness.Right? Just listen to it.You may not agree but find out.Now we have been trainededucated to function only with part of the brain.That is acquiring a great deal of memoryknowledge about particular subjectsand with it is discipline to earn a livelihood.Right?To become an engineerto become a specialised scientista physicist or psychologist.We are trained that way educated that way.And therefore we are only using part of the brain.Obviously.And the other part the psychical part is uneducatedis left alone.So our education is lopsided.Right?May we go on?The poor mother has asked this questionit becomes rather complex.So is it possible not only to cultivate knowledge memoryand also at the same time or at a different periodcultivate understand the whole psychological contentof a human being?Both of them running together.Bien? Is that possible?The speaker thinks that is the only right kind of education.Not just the one kind of educationbut to understand the other side – which is the psychological world.You are mankindyou are the history of man.You are the story of mankind obviouslybecause you have suffered you have gone through all kinds of troublelike every other human beingyou are one with the rest of the world.Nice pigeon went through.So can you read the book of mankind which is you?You understand my question?Can you as a human beingnot only educated in one directionbut also as a human beingyou are the entire history of mankind- not the history of kings and dates and queensbut the experience the sorrow the painall that tremendously complex psychological world- can you read that book as you read an ordinary book?And we are not capable of doing thatbecause we have depended on others to read for us that book.I don’t know if you follow all this.Right sir?One depended on a guru on a priest or a psychologist- unless you are a neuroticbut perhaps most of us are slightly neurotic.Can we read that book without distortion?Because if you are a good scientistor learning the beginnings of scienceyou have to be very precise very clearfollow every discipline involved in that particular subject.So similarlyone has to read this book without any kind of distortion.Right?Is that possible?Is it possible for each one of usnot depending on any other to help us to read that bookis that possible to read without any distortion?You understand my question?As you see your face in the mirrorwhen you comb your hair or shaveis there a mirror in which everything is reflectedvery clearly distinctlyso that the book reflects in the mirror?You understand what I am asking?Oh my lord don’t go to sleep please.Suppose I don’t know how to read that bookbecause my brain is slightly distorted.My prejudice my nationality and so on – it is distorted.Therefore I can hardly read that book clearly.So can I be free of the prejudices I have accumulated?The book may be full of prejudices probably it isfull of theories suppositions.So I must be able to read it without all thatotherwise I can’t read it.Right?So is it possible for me to be free of my prejudices opinionsthe conclusions which I recently have gathered- because the book may be full of tradition.You understand?Therefore I must be free of traditionto read tradition.You have understood this?Yes?It is rather interesting if you go into this.I am answering the poor lady.She loves her child.She wants to bring up her daughter carefullywell-educatedand during the educational periodshe acquires all the nonsense of society. Right?She acquires all kinds of- you know what is happening in the worldI don’t have to go into all that.And she wants to know what to do.We will first of all finish that ‘what to do’.Do we really love a child?Do you really love your daughter your son?What does that love mean?If you loved your daughter or your son really deeplythen would you allow that child to grow upand be caught in this tremendousconflictingand insane world?Would you allow your son to join the armyif you really loved him?Go and kill another get maimed?We were taken into a hospital in Americaby a very well known doctor.It was a hospital very very few people go to- not allowed.And there were people there without arms and legswithout eyesshattered faceslopsided wounded – appalling sight.That is the result of war.And their mothers have said we loved our childrenand they end up there in that hospital.I wonder if you realise all this.Some had gone insane put in straightjackets.So what do we mean by love?Do you want them your children whom you loveto enter into this insane world?It is a tremendous problem this.But you have to enter into that world.You have to have an occupation.You have to earn a livelihood.You can’t just withdraw from the worldbecause you are the world.So the mother asks what shall I doknowing the society is so corruptso extraordinarily unbalanced.Everyone is out for himself – self-interest.And the mother what is she to do or the parent?So does love stop after a certain age?You have sent your child to a school to a collegeand perhaps to a university if you are luckyif you have enough moneyand let him go.Get married settled down.Right?That is what most parents are concerned with.And this is called love.And we are questioning whether that is love at all.I am not saying anything derogatoryor impolite or not respectfulbut I question we question whether that is love.If you really deeply lovedit means something totally different.There can be no love if there is self-interest.Right?This is a fact.If I am concerned about myself all the time which we arehow can there be love?You may talk about it romanticise about itgo to a cinema and see all that nonsenseabout love and sex and all that business.So one has to go into this question of what is lovewhat is our relationship to the childwhat is our relationship to the world and so on.That is one side of it.And we are talking aboutwhether you can read the story of mankindthe book that you are – if I can use that word -can you read that book?Not just at the beginning of the bookfirst chapter or a few lines of itbut go through to the very end of it.It is possible only in the mirror of relationship.Right?Because in that mirror of relationshipyou see what you areyour reactions and responses not only biological responsesbut also all the responses of ambitiongreed envy flattery insultthe whole content of your consciousness is revealedif you are very watchfulwatching very closely without any distortion.Then it is a movement a holistic movementlearning a subjectthat subject having its own disciplinelike mathematics and so onand also as one is related always in life with everything- I am related to you I am related to another -so in that mirrorwatching carefully without distortionthat requires tremendous interest and energy.Can these both be done? You understand my question?That is real education.Then you don’t have to read a single bookabout the psyche.You can read lots of books about other things.2nd Question: Why is itthat we are not able to sustain attentionfor more than a couple of minutes?Why is it that we are not capable of sustaining attentionfor more than a couple of minutes?Ask yourself that question.First of allwhy do you want to sustain something all the time?You want to sustain pleasure all the time.You want gratification.You want certain conclusions to be continuous.You want certain relationships to be lastingsustained nourished.Why this desire to have a continuity?You understand my question?You want to sustain attention- why?Because somebody has told you attention is very important?Or you have discovered for yourself the nature of attention?Therefore you have to enquire what is inattention.You understand?What is important is not attentionbut what is inattention not attending.Right?We have divided the two.Not having complete attentionand also lacking thatwhich is inattention not attending.Now which is important?Important in the sense on which should we look?Is not inattention more important than attention?Would you agree?Because if I understand what is inattentionthen there is attention.So what is not attending?We are talking over together noware you attending all the time or only part of the time?Please just look at it answer look at it for yourselfgo into it for yourself.Are you really paying attention to what is being said nowor only for a few seconds or a few minutesand then go off to something else?Is there a sustained attention?Of course not.So it is important to understand why there is inattention.Is there such a thing as inattention?You understand my question?Are you interested in all this?Inattention is distraction.Right?That is what you call distraction.Is there a distraction at all?I want to think about somethingand then that very thought goes off to something elseand going off I call distraction.Right?Is not thought itself a distraction?I wonder if you see that.I want to concentrate on this subjectand I can do that only for a few minutesand then thought goes off to something elseand the thinking about something elseinstead of what I am supposed to be thinking aboutis called distraction.But if I don’t call it distraction but follow that.You understand?I am concentrating on reading a chapterand I watch I see that thought is also going off to something else.Then I say that is a distraction.But I won’t call it a distraction.To me that doesn’t exist at all personally.To me there is no distractionbecause I follow what you call distraction.I don’t say I must read this chapter or these few linesbut whatever direction thought moves watch itso that there is no sense of distractionwhich means no division.I wonder if you see this.So that there is a watchingattention and non-attention.Then non-attention is attention.I wonder if you see that.See how we are distracted by words.The word distractionis a very destructive processbecause you want to concentrate on somethingand therefore moving away from that is called distraction.Thought is always moving.It is never static.It is always in actionwhether you are asleepwhether you are waking or daydreamingor doing something or otherit is in action it is in movement.And thought is a material process.I wonder if you have understood this.Because thought is based on memoryexperience knowledgeand that is stored in the brainand the brain contains millions and millions of cellsand those cells hold memories.This is scientific fact.And they are always in movement.So one begins to discover the brain has its own rhythmnot the rhythm of thought.I wonder if you follow.I won’t go into all that.Now we are askingis it possibleto watch.To watch to be absolutely watching all the time.That is really another form of askingcan I sustain attention.Is attention brought about through effort?And if you make an effort is that attention?That is practice attention.Lovely idea.Practice day after daywatching your body the movementsall the game you play withand at the end you say yes I have learned attention.Is attention a form of acquiring memory about attention?You understand my question?Is attention gathered through practicethrough various forms of psychological trainingor there is attention only- not inattention.If you understand inattention there is attention.And it is never sustained.Why should you attend all the time?Then you can look at the stars.And also that requires attention.So there is no distraction.Questioner: Excuse me Krishnaji one short question… (inaudible)K: What sir?I would like to understand your question sirit is not quite clear.Q: He wants to ask you a question.K: Go ahead sir.Q: (Inaudible)K: What sir?Q: (Inaudible)Q: If there is nobody to relate to is it possible to know ourselves.K: Ah when you are not related to anybodyis it possible to know yourself.Is that the question sir?You have asked the question may I go into it?Are you alone at all? Q: Yes.K: No sir just a minute.Do you know what that word ‘alone’ means?The etymological meaning of that word ‘alone’means ‘all one’.Just a minute sir. I was only joking.I am only playing with that word forgive me.Are we alone?Or you are always related to something?It may not be your wife or husbandyou may be singlebut you are related.You are related to natureof which you are a part.You are related to the world.You are related to your mother to your father and so on.There is no such entity as being single.Biologically you may be single physically unrelatedbut psychologically you are related to the whole of mankind.And then we say to ourselves we are lonely I mean singleand with all the problems of being single.Then I try to have a relationship with another and yet remain single.You understand?I may get married childrengo to the office and all the rest of itbut I remain single because I am pursuing my ambition etc.So there is no person in the worldincluding the lonely hermit- he is relatedrelated to the pastthe traditionto all the knowledge he has acquiredand so on and so on.3rd Question: Does suffering and enjoymenthave any bearing on the previous lifeand deeds of present life?Does suffering and enjoymenthave any bearing on the previous lifeand deeds of present life?You are talking about reincarnation aren’t you?And also that is implied in the word ‘karma’- cause and effect.Karma I have been toldthe root meaning of that word is action.May we go into this question seriouslyyou want to go into it?Not the others have not been serious.What is action?Action means to be acting.Not I have acted or will act.Action means now.Right?Action implies for most peoplea past remembrancea motive or a future intentionor a future ideal and so on.Either the past is directing shaping the actionor the future shaping the action.So that is not action.I wonder if you see this.Action means the doing active present.But the active present is denied when you have a motivea cause for actionand a future action.So you are reallywhen you depend on the future or on the past you are not acting.I wonder if you see this.For most of us acting is based on memory on a motive- let’s be quite clear and honest about it.I flatter you because I want something out of youI love you because you have given me somethingand so on – you play this game.Nowthe questioner askshave I lived on this earth beforeand because I haven’t done things properly last lifetherefore I am suffering nowand if I understand what is right action nownext life I have a better chancea better housea better wifebetter refrigerators.Now this is really a very serious question.I don’t know if we should go into this.What is the selfwhat is the ‘I’ that says I must continue?That there is a continuity from the pastthrough the present to the future.That is one thing.Then the other is the cause.Cause-effectwhich is part of karma.I have sown certain seedgood or badand that flowers smells bad or goodand the effect is that.Now is cause permanentand the effect also permanent?Or the effect becomes the cause.Right?And that has another effect which then becomes the cause.So causation is a movement.Right? I wonder if you understand.It is rather interesting if you go into it very carefully.The cause is I suffer from diseaseone of the causes I suffer- suppose I have a bad stomachbecause I have eaten the wrong fooddrank too much and so on.So if I don’t eat properly the effect is pain.Then I say that pain must be controlled.I take a pill.But the cause still goes onbecause I am eating the wrong food.So there is the continuity of cause and a superficial effect.Right?But if I see the cause as eating wrong food I change itthe effect is health.Health is not a result.It is living properly.I don’t know if you follow all this.Logically it is all this.So the cause is never permanent or the effect.The effect becomes the cause and so it is a chainit is a movement.And the question really there is- if you are interested -can this movement stop?You understand?This movement which is cause-effecteffect becoming the cause and so onand this movement is of time naturally.Right? So I am askingneed there be any causation for action?Right? You all look so sleepy.Is there an action per se for itself not for something?To understand that I have to go into the questionof reward and punishment.The human being lives on this principle- reward and punishment – like all animals do.Right?If you have had a dogyou reward him when he does something properly.When you say come to heeland you gradually train him through reward and punishmentgiving him a biscuit when he comes to youand you don’t give him a biscuit when he doesn’t.So he learns to depend on reward and punishmentand then gradually you saycome to heel – he does.You follow?And on the same principle we work.I haven’t done properly this life or past lifeI am paying for it nowbut next life I will be rewarded if I behave properly.Right?So it is reward and punishment same principle.Now can you actlive without a motivewithout this principle of reward and punishment?Go into it sirs see what are the implications of it.Not reincarnation we will go into that later.That is a very trivial matterat least for the speaker it is nonsenseI won’t go into it now.Because one has to go into this questionwhat is continuity what is ending and what is it that continues.You understand? These three things are impliedwhich takes some time to go into.We will do it in the next two talks.So we are askingis there action without cause?Go into it see how extraordinarily interesting it isnot just whether you believe in reincarnationthat is rather sillybut to find out an action which has no causewhich has no motive which has no self-interest.If there is self-interest it is limited.If there is a motive it is still further limitation.So action is never complete and therefore brings problemslike you are doing politically.So I am askingis there an action per se for itself?There iswhich is love.Love has no motive.Love has no rewardnor punishment – it is love.When there is that quality of love there is right action.Right action is not born out of clever thought.Right action takes place when there is the sense of holistic love- I can love my wife and love mankindbecause it is love.It is not love to one and denied to the others.I wonder if you understand this.That is real compassion.And when there is that compassion there is intelligence.And that intelligence has no opposite to it.4th Question: Is it possible to be aware with all your senses- eyes ears brain so onsimultaneously?Is it possible to be aware with all your senses- eyes ears brain nerves etc.simultaneously?Anything is possible.But how do we as human beings function?With all our senses or only with partial senses?You understand my question?Senses are very important aren’t theyotherwise you couldn’t livetouch feel taste seewatch and so on and so on hearwith all the senses fully awakened.But our senses are not.They are only partially awake.Because it has been one of the doctrines of religionsall over the world to control your senses.To control your senses so as to have energy for God.Sexual sensesthe senses of hearing- don’t hear anything which it doesn’t say in the book.Right?Don’t listen to anythingbecause it may arouse suspicion doubt questionsyou don’t listen.And another interesting thing have you noticed?Those people who live by the book- Muslims and the Christians – are very bigoted narrow.I hope you do not mind my saying this.And those who have lots of books like Hindus they play around.They are not so bigoted they are tolerant they absorband they consider that absorption great capacitywhich it is not just indifference.So is it possible to be aware simultaneouslyall the senses aware.Have you noticed a sunset with all your senses?Have you noticed the movement of the seathe blue light and the movement of a wave with all your senses?You haven’t.Have you watched your wife with all your senses?No.Now when you watch with all your senses what takes place?You can’t answer that question because you have never done it.So we must not say what happens when all the senses are awakefunctioning fullybut why is it that we are always partially respondingexcept perhaps sexuallypartially responding – why?You understand?Partial responses of the senses- why?Is it that we have given importance to one or two senses?I am asking you.Or we haven’t even thought about all this.So if we begin to be aware of our sensesnot choosing one sense better than the other sensebut aware without choice the whole movement of sensesnot one part of itbut to watch our reaction to every sensethe taste the hearing the seeingthe smelling the feeling – all that.We live by that.We live by sensation.Right?And thought takes over the sensations.Haven’t you noticed it?I don’t want to go into all thisbut it doesn’t matter let’s go into it.You see something beautiful in the shopa nice shirt or a nice sarior whatever you see in the shop beautiful.There is a perception seeing going inside the shoptouching it which is sensationseeing contact sensation.Then thought comes along and sayshow nice to have that shirt on me it looks nice.Right?So thought creates the image of you in that shirt or in that sari.Right?then desire is born.I wonder if you are following the whole sequence of this.We are always fighting desire.The religions all over the world say suppress desiredon’t fight it suppress it get rid of it.You can’t.But desire for God is the same as desire for a shirt- sorry -because both are based on desire.So seeing contact sensationand not to allow thought- careful you can’t allow it -see the truththe moment thought comes and builds an imagethen desire is born which is a facta simple observable daily fact.Now sensations are normal healthyotherwise you would be dead.And to watch very carefully thought not building an image.You understand?And not letting thought create an image out of the sensation.I wonder if you understand this.I see that shirt in the shop.Then I go inside and touch the material and saybeautiful material hand-made.And then thought comes along and sayshow nice it would be if I had it.I will put it on. Nice blue.Right?And when thought creates the imagethen desire is born.Sensation has no desire.Of course it is sensation.I wonder if you see this it is really important.Then to be aware of thought comingand making a shape out of sensationgiving it an imagethen the conflict of desire.Now is there an observation which requires greatclear correct without any distortionwithout any compulsion to see thought?You follow?Not allow thought immediately to reactso that there is a gap.That requires tremendous… you follow?Do it do it and see what happens.Q: May I ask a question?K: Yes sir.Q: A question further to what you have saidthat why every sensation or response of the brainis always in terms of a thought.Why every sensation or every reaction of the brainis always in terms of a thought.K: What is that?I haven’t understood the question.Why everything turns to thought?Q: Why every sensation turns into thought.K: I know that is what we are saying.Every sensation -why is thought interfering with every sensation. Right?Q: Yes that is the question.K: Why do you think it does?You answer that question. Don’t ask me I will tell you later.Don’t ask another or any question – find out.You are so lazy that is what it is.We live by thought.That is the only instrument you have now.And thought has created the most amazing things in the world.Thought has brought about tremendous chaos in the worldwhich is war separated nations separated economy.Thought has created religions and separated the religions.So thought has done immense harm in one directionand great good in the other directionlike having sanitarycommunicationmarvellous surgery.Have you seenthey have invented an artificial heartand being implanted and so on.They are doing incredible things.So thought is the way of our life.And that thought is very limitedtherefore it is creating chaos in the world.We never ask is there another instrumentis there another perception which is not thought?Right sir?Now that requires a great deal of going intonot just verbally but doing it.There is that instrument which is insightin which there is no memory no time no futureit is instant perception.And that perception is action not separated.I won’t go into it now because that takes too long.Q: (Inaudible)K: Sir I have got a question here.Q: Can we come out of this world of thought by any effort?Q: Can we come out of the world of thought with an effort?K: No.Can you come out of the world of thought with effort.Can you come out of the world of thought with effort.Right?Who is the maker of the effort?Is not the maker of the effortthought also saysif I get out of this I will have a better reward.You see we put these questionswithout thinking it out for ourselves.And the speaker is not going to help you.He doesn’t want to help you.But we can talk over together.We can have a dialogue togetherso that both of us see the same thing clearly.5th Question: I don’t follow doctrinesand commandments of divine soulsso I feel fear they may do something wrong to me.I always feel uneasy and live in a fearing condition.Please guide and advise me.I don’t follow any doctrines and commandments of divine soulsso I feel fear they may do something wrong to me.Divine souls doing something wrong to you?I always feel uneasy and live in fearing conditions.Sir we have got the most extraordinary ideas- perhaps they are pathological and neurotic -that somebody evilevil souls are controlling usshaping us telling us what to do.And there are good souls divine souls saying don’t do that.Advising the opposite of the evil birds.Why are we so frightened o
J. Krishnamurti – Bombay (Mumbai) 1985 – Public Q&A 1 – Notes
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