When You are Dealing with People Who are Not Ready for Civilization…

When You are Dealing with People Who are Not Ready for Civilization… September 18, 2012

…you be more cautious in sourcing stories. Last night I ran a reaction to a story which turns out to be poorly sourced claiming that the ambassador to Libya was gay and was sodomized by his murderers. I saw red and wrote a screed in response. I should have checked the bona fides of the claim better. Thanks to vigilant readers, I now question that claim and I apologize for crediting the story. The murder of innocents by this mob of goons is bad enough, as is the appalling fecklessness of the Obama Administration, which had days of advanced warning, but is still claiming total surprise and that this was not premeditated.

That kind of blindness to the obvious (which was what I was primarily angry about) is caused, not by a failure the information stream or in the intellect, but in the soul. It is a classic example of sin making you stupid. They had an ideological commitment–a commitment that remains intact at this hour–to the notion of our messianic mission to bring uplift to the Islamic world through post-Christian democratic capitalism (all under the careful managed control of our Caesaroligarchic Ruling Class, of course). That ideological commitment blinded them to the warning signs and continues to blind them, persuading them that this obviously coordinated and premeditated attack was spontaneous and not fed by deep wells of resentment across the Islamosphere.

Good luck with that.

Meanwhile, mea culpa for buying the story that prompted the post. I’m stupid.

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  • Pseudonymous

    Warning, that first link contains images at the bottom purporting to be of the murder of the ambassador. I clicked back as fast as I could so I did not see them well but I saw enough to see that they are degrading and disgusting. I suggest placing a warning in your post Mark.

    • Rosemarie


      Thanks for the heads up. Many browsers allow you to turn off images, so readers might wish to do so before viewing that page.

  • I’ve been busy the last couple days. I’ve only been able to catch the news on these events briefly. Therefore, all of this is new to me. From what I’ve seen, the main focus has been on what Romney said, on who the filmmaker is, and what is wrong with critics who have gone after Obama’s reactions to this crisis. I’ve actually not heard any of this. I’m not saying it wasn’t covered. But it’s not been covered as much as these other issues, which I have heard talked about multiple times. If it’s all true as reported above, then yeah, it was a wrong, not just stupid, thing to do.

  • Mickey Jackson

    “People Who are Not Ready for Civilization”: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jtes/12-photos-of-benghazi-citizens-apologizing-to-amer

    You are truly beyond the pale, Mark. Maybe you should make a practice of waiting 24 hours before you post, well, anything. In any event, though, you just lost a follower.

    • Mickey Jackson

      Oh, and here are more “animals” “who are not ready for civilization”: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/libya-witness-says-us-amb-stevens-was-breathing-when-found-in-consulate-after-benghazi-attack/2012/09/17/26852118-00d7-11e2-bbf0-e33b4ee2f0e8_story.html

      Ambassador Stevens died of smoke inhalation in a safe room at the consulate. The Libyans (“animals” “who are not ready for civilization”) who found him rushed him to the hospital where a Libyan doctor (another “animal” “who [is] not ready for civilization”) spent 90 minutes trying to resuscitate him. Source the claim that any of these people who tried to save Ambassador Stevens sodomized him, or it’s nothing more than a slander (HillBuzz, whatever that is, is not a credible source, and note that their claim about him being raped links to nothing).

      I’m done now. Goodbye, for good.

      • Thomas

        Seconded but I’m not going anywhere.

        Somebody has to stick around and say something.

        Mr. Shea, brother, you are harming our Church.

    • Scott W.

      Somehow I suspect he will be back to treat us with more of his misplaced indignation.

    • rakowskidp

      Did Mark say that the entire country of Libya is unfit for civilization, or the folks who attacked the embassy and attempted to assassinate our ambassador?

      • Thomas

        It’s more that the entire content of the post is not only uncharitable but factually questionable.

        • Tim in Cleveland

          Well, if he’s talking about he “mob of brutal Islamic thugs” who attacked the embassy with grenades and set it on fire, ultimately killing the ambassador and other Americans and other mobs across the world resorting to violence and destruction, then I have to agree they are not ready for civilization.

          I’m skeptical of the rape allegations, but such mobs are known to rape foreigners (e.g. Lara Logan). But I haven’t seen any credible source saying the ambassador was assaulted in that way.

          • Mickey Jackson

            “Such mobs are known to rape foreigners.”

            Again: Ambassador Stevens died of smoke inhalation. The only “mob” he encountered directly was the “mob” of civilians who tried to help him. Anyone who’s been following credible news sources knows this. Clearly Mark doesn’t.

            • Tim in Cleveland

              Why exactly was there smoke? Because the embassy was set on fire. Who do you think did that? I’m sure those who fired grenades at the embassy and set it on fire thought it was completely empty. (Great to have you back, by the way).

            • Mark Shea

              Really? The *only* mob? He just smoked too much and died of a coughing fit? Is there some tiny detail in this scenario you are overlooking?

              • Mickey Jackson

                The point is that the mob that killed Amb. Stevens did so by setting the consulate on fire, a fire in which he subsequently was trapped. He never encountered said mob directly, so they wouldn’t have had the opportunity to sodomize him as the article to which you link claims. This isn’t rocket science. The only point I’m trying to make is that, had Mark taken a second to think about this claim in light of what we know about the attack before blithely posting it, he would have realized that it isn’t in the least credible.

                • Irenist

                  Mickey, reload the original post on your browser. Mark has fixed it.

                • Mark Shea

                  Clearly the core issue here is that I too easily credited the notion that a murderous mob who killed innocent people also committed sodomy, not that innocent people were killed by a murderous mob, nor that the Administration which fecklessly sent those innocents to their doom remains blind to the evils that confront it due to ideology. Good that your priorities are straight.

                  Also, it remains obvious that when I wrote,

                  “Sure there are lots of Muslims who have adapted to Western culture, formed friendships and relationships of mutual respect with non-Muslims. I’ve met some really wonderful Muslim folk online and, in particular, would recommend Dilshad Ali http://www.patheos.com/blogs/muslimahnextdoor/ if you want to meet a lovely and good woman who is just trying to raise her family right in the sight of God. There are many more like her. But globally Islam, as a culture-forming system, seem to be in serious crisis in that it appears to be unable to form the antibodies that kill the cells of radicalism multiplying in the Umma. The biggest danger sane Muslims face is not non-Muslims, but other Muslims. If you want an analogy, imagine a Catholic commuhion where the Fred Phelps and Richard Williamson types were not the uber-marginalized fringe whack jobs, but the lionized and broadly popular bad boy rebels against the boring, accomodationist bourgeois Old Regime”

                  my obvious intent was to stigmatize all Muslims everywhere–or at least most Muslims–as not ready for civilization. Don’t forget I am a racist (because I think crucifying cats is barbaric even when not done over a Youtube) and a homophobe too. You can explain the latter charge to all the lunatics who were screaming about my alleged support for homosexuality a week or two ago. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/godandthemachine/2012/09/mark-shea-worst-person-ever/

                • Hezekiah Garrett

                  3.5 hrs. I was embarrassed by my 6 or 7 days. And I was asked to leave.


    • Mark Shea

      Which part of…

      Sure there are lots of Muslims who have adapted to Western culture, formed friendships and relationships of mutual respect with non-Muslims. I’ve met some really wonderful Muslim folk online and, in particular, would recommend Dilshad Ali if you want to meet a lovely and good woman who is just trying to raise her family right in the sight of God. There are many more like her. But globally Islam, as a culture-forming system, seem to be in serious crisis in that it appears to be unable to form the antibodies that kill the cells of radicalism multiplying in the Umma. The biggest danger sane Muslims face is not non-Muslims, but other Muslims. If you want an analogy, imagine a Catholic commuhion where the Fred Phelps and Richard Williamson types were not the uber-marginalized fringe whack jobs, but the lionized and broadly popular bad boy rebels against the boring, accomodationist bourgeois Old Regime.

      did you not understand?

      • Irenist

        Mainly that it was in another post, perhaps; blog posts get read in isolation, which is unfair but true. Look, Mark, I *know* you know that there are lots of great Muslims out there, and that you’ve said so, and that you’re no bigot. But the rhetoric here makes you look bad (yes, I know you meant to call the terrorists “animals,” not all Libyans or Muslims, and that you don’t mean “homosexual” as a term of disrespect but a plain statement of what “gay” people are up to, but you’re writing on the Internet, where people *are* going to misinterpret you). Worse, the sourcing of a story to Kevin DuJan, right after falling for the hoax that the crucified cat photo was recent, not long after posting, with apparent approval, a reader comment that fails to distinguish between fascism, socialism, and the current mess we’re in makes you look credulous and not credible. You are a Catholic public intellectual with great God-given gifts for wisdom, insight, understanding, humor, and charm. Don’t squander it. Please. I say this as a *huge* fan: this post was inappropriate.

  • Alex Segal

    It is appalling that Mark O’Shea treats Kevin DuJan’s words as credible evidence that Ambassador Stevens was gay. What on earth are you thinking of? (I have no idea whether Ambassador Stevens was gay or not. But to think that Kevin DuJan is to be believed on such a matter beggars belief.)

  • I look at this as less an example of the Obama admin’s well-meaning idiocy and more as a demonstration of their overweening arrogance. To send a known homosexual to a Muslim country is just more of the same cram-down we’ve seen when they try to send pro-abortion ambassadors to the Vatican. It’s them saying, “You’ll take this individual who is living a degraded lifestyle which we celebrate in our culture and you’ll like it.”

    It’s for reasons like this that the Islamic world hates us and calls us “The Great Satan.” Are they barbaric and evil for murdering this man in this particularly heinous fashion? Of course. But they have a right to their cultural norms and when you try to do the cram-down on a society that has a history of responding hyper-violently to cultural imperialism, this is what happens.

    • Irenist

      “On Wednesday night, residents of both Tripoli and Benghazi staged demonstrations to condemn the attack and express their sorrow at the loss of Mr. Stevens. Stationed in Benghazi during the uprising against Colonel Qaddafi, Mr. Stevens, who was fluent in Arabic and French, had become a local hero for his support to the Libyan rebels during their time of greatest need. Benghazi residents circulated photographs online of Mr. Stevens frequenting local restaurants, relishing local dishes, and strolling city streets, apparently without a security detail.

      “On Wednesday, some friends of Mr. Stevens suggested that his faith in his bond with the people of Benghazi may have blinded him to the dangers there. “Everybody liked him,” said Mr. Baja, who ate breakfast with Mr. Stevens on Tuesday. “He is a good man, a friendly man, he knows lots of the sheiks in town and a lot of the intellectuals have spent some good times with him.”

      “The people in Benghazi, I think, are very sad right now.”

      Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/13/world/middleeast/us-envoy-to-libya-is-reported-killed.html?_r=2&hp&pagewanted=all

  • Thomas


    Flee the company of worldy-living people as much as thou mayest: for the treating of worldly matters abateth greatly the fervour of spirit: though it be done with a good intent, we be anon deceived with vanity of the world, and in manner are made as thrall unto it, if we take not good heed. I would I had held my peace many times when I have spoken, and that I had not been so much amongst worldly company as I have been. But why are we so glad to speak and commune together, sith we so seldom depart without some hurt of conscience? This is the cause: By our communing together we think to comfort each other, and to refresh our hearts when we be trouble with vain imaginations, and we speak most gladly of such things as we most love, or else of things that be most contrarious unto us.

    But alas for sorrow! All is vain that we do; for this outward comfort is no little hindrance of the true inward comfort that cometh of God. Therefore it is necessary that we watch and pray, that the time pass not away from us in idleness. If it be lawful and expedient to speak, speak then of God and of such things as are to the edifying of thy soul of of thy neighbour’s. An evil use and a negligence of our ghostly profit maketh us oftentimes to take little heed how we should speak. Nevertheless, sometimes it helpeth right much to the health of the soul, a devout communing of spiritual things, specially when men of one mind and spirit in God do meet and speak and commune together.’

    — The Imitation of Christ

  • Thomas

    ‘There was once a great hermit in the mountains and he was attacked by robbers. But his cries aroused the other hermits in the neighbourhood, and they ran together and captured the robbers. These they sent under guard to the town and the judge put them in jail. But then the brothers were very ashamed and sad because, on their account, the robbers had been turned over to the judge. They went to Abbot Poemen and told him all about it. And the elder wrote to the hermit saying: Remember who carried out the first betrayal, and you will learn the reason for the second. Unless you had first been betrayed by your own inward thoughts, you would never have ended by turning those men over to the judge. The hermit, touched by these words, got up at once and went into the city and broke open the jail, letting out the robbers and freeing them from torture.’

    ‘There was a certain elder who, if anyone maligned him, would go in person to offer him presents, if he lived nearby. And if he lived at a distance he would send presents by the hand of another.’

    ‘Abbot Pastor said: Any trial whatever that comes to you can be conquered by silence.’

    – The Wisdom of the Desert: Sayings from the Desert Fathers of the Fourth Century

    • The hermits were angry because they aided the authorities in their [the authorities] God-given duties? (Romans 13:1-7)

      • Thomas

        Your interpretation of that verse is out of context.

        No, they were ashamed and sad because they had valued possessions over the freedom of their fellow humans. The story is applicable in this context because it highlights the need for understanding our enemies.

        ‘Remember who carried out the first betrayal, and you will learn the reason for the second. Unless you had first been betrayed by your own inward thoughts, you would never have ended by turning those men over to the judge. ‘

        It is a subtle point and hard but that is the nature of our calling.

        • Ok, thanks for the clarification. Since I was unfamiliar with the story, I only had the context you had posted. (though I point out that to say “attacked by robbers” implies in many peoples’ minds more than just a theft, as the man the Samaritan helped needed medical care besides just being robbed)

          • Hezekiah Garrett

            They never published it in National Review, huh?

  • Bob S

    Mark – your comments are absolutely out of line and you should retract the horrendous claims and connections you make. In your unabashed attempt to smear the Obama administration, choosing to withhold from actual policy critiques or intelligent criticism based in fact (and as both an Obama supporter and a Catholic, I can tell you there are a number of thing you could have taken up), you turn to horrifying language. I’m sure you’re opposed to the Obama administration for the typical conservative litany – but isn’t all that Catholic defense of life based in the dignity of the human person.

    So Mark, if you’re going to make baseless and offensive claims, you need to answer: how do your comments against the Libyan people, specifically the false ties to Islam you attempt to make, uphold the dignity of north Africans and of Muslims?

    How do your comments referring to those in the Obama administration as animals not draw up language we should never use about another human being, specifically when its the first African-American president?

    How do your comments uphold the dignity of those with an innate and protected homosexual orientation, according to official Catholic teaching, who are not to be discriminated but are to be welcomed and loved and joined to the community so their divine gifts can flourish, again official Catholic teaching? Your throw-away line about ‘love and respect’ doesn’t cut it.

    How do your comments uphold the dignity of, by all accounts, a terrific diplomat who gave his life seeking peace – a very Christian, perhaps the most Christian vocation – when you make unsubstantiated claims about him and seek to discredit his death? How does this uphold the dignity of his family, friends, fellow diplomats who lived Stevens and who have the right to have his selfless act honored, not denigrated with your filthy falsehoods?

    Mark – you write about being Catholic and that is a service our Church needs right now, but you do so much damage with posts like this that all your work beforehand becomes irrelevant. We may disagree on liturgy and political policies in their details, we may disagree on church governance or women’s role in the hierarchy – and these are good discussions and differences. Right here, you have let go of the fundamentals of Christian living in this post – nonjudgmental and all-embracing love, respect for each person as God’s child, and a firm commitment to reconciliation and peacemaking, rather than division-inducing hate speech. You failed at a most fundamental level to understand the Catholic mandate to engage positively in interfaith relations, to combat systemic racism and homophobia, to bury the dead with honor, and to defend every person’s dignity including in our speech.

    You either retract and apologize or I’m unsure how anyone can take your writing on Catholicism seriously any longer.

  • Irenist

    “You either retract and apologize or I’m unsure how anyone can take your writing on Catholicism seriously any longer.”
    This, Mr. Shea. In deepest sorrow, this.
    The story of what happened to Stevens in Libya comes from a source that is simply not credible.
    You, a Catholic blogger who I *know* means well, repeat this story without sourcing it. You do this in a post that analogizes hirabi terrorists to animals in a way that will make it very, very easy for the average reader to think you mean all Libyans, or all Muslims.
    Your blog is going off the deep end, Mark. Libyans are not animals, and Obama is not a fascist. You are uncritically republishing some very extremist right wing stuff here, lately. Is that who you want to be? As Catholic self-help author Matthew Kelly might ask, “Is what you’re doing right now leading you to be the best version of yourself, the version God wants you to be?” I sorrowfully submit to you that it does not. Please be more responsible. Your witness to Catholic truth deserves better than to collapse into this. You deserve better. Please, please, please pray on this for a while.

  • Mark, you need to read After Virtue and Whose Justice? Which Rationality?. Your language is offensive and your metaphor (the animal who bites) does not clarify.

  • Wow, a whole lot of angry at Mark. I would be inclined to agree, but I just don’t know the facts. Why don’t I know the facts? Because the media is spending scant time focusing on this. The lead stories on this morning’s news? Romney saying something and being caught by a hidden camera. This followed by some economic news about Apple and new polls about the presidential race. On only one channel did this even make the top three stories, and almost all of it treating the latest round of slayings as anything other than connected to the film maker. Nothing about recent news that we might have been warned about these attacks. Nothing at all about the ambassador. In short, except ‘more killings in the Middle East today’, virtually nothing at all.

    So I’ll withhold judgement on Mark until I know more, just as I will say if the evidence turns out to show Mark was wrong, that he should have withheld judgement.

    • Irenist

      I am angry. More sorrowful than angry, but yeah, I’m angry. I’m angry because I admire Mark and love his voice on this blog, and he’s needlessly running it into the ground.
      The tone of this post (viz., calling people “animals” in the sense of “beast” rather than “rational animal,” calling a dead hero “homosexual” instead of such folks’ preferred expression, “gay”) would be unacceptable regardless of whether the story were true. And regardless of whether Amb. Stevens was same-sex attracted (he was a lifelong bachelor, so perhaps he was, not that it’s any of my business) or whether the story Kevin DuJan is mongering were to be closer to the facts than mainstream media reports that local residents rushed Stevens to the hospital, if Mark is going to have this prominent platform as a Catholic public intellectual, he owes it to himself, his readers, the Church, and to the greater glory of God not to ever, ever, ever source a story to the likes of Kevin DuJan. If DuJan’s ilk are the only source of some story about a raped corpse or a crucified cat, maybe Mark can just wait a while before posting to see if some more credible outlet picks it up, if he absolutely must discuss it. That’s not asking too much, I think.

      • Mark Shea

        I’ve never heard of Kevin DuJan. However, I’ve edited the post to reflect the fact that you persuade me the claim is unreliable.

        • Irenist

          Thanks, Mark! I hope my critique is taken in the spirit of huge admiration for you in which it’s given.

          • Mark Shea

            To be sure. You’re a good egg, Tom. Thanks for your patience with my screwups.

      • Hezekiah Garrett

        “Homosexual” is now unacceptable? Really?

    • Bob S

      Or perhaps there is no news on the claims made by Mark because they are baseless and unsubstantiated by any credible sources – and journalists have held to some standards in dismissing such claims, instead of parroting them anyway.

      • It’s hard to say Bob. My point is, there is almost no news. The press has bent over backwards to have ‘people being killed around the world in spontaneous riots that coincidentally popped up on 9/11’ here, and Obama there, and making sure no line is drawn betwixt them. That’s my bigger point. I feel in all of this I have been utterly uninformed. For all I know, Mark is spot on. Or he’s completely off base. But because of the commission to reelect Obama, instead of having up to date reports and analysis and examining the various details no matter how they may hurt Obama, the most I get is Romney said something stupid again, or hey! let’s focus on the latest iPhone (by the way, more people died today in some riots, but back to the iPhone). That’s what I’m mad about to be honest. I would love to jump on Mark about this, but I simply don’t know enough to know if he’s wrong or not. At least not from any media non-coverage of the events.

  • Michael

    Did Mark Shea just dehumanize everyone living in the Muslim world? I did not realize that this was a neocon blog. One little bit of information that may be relevant to this event but also may not be. Under Hillary Clinton, the State Department does heavily push the gay rights agenda in foreign nations even over the resistance of local cultures. Why they have taken up that mantle is up for speculation but the foreign image of the United States is a champion for the cause of homosexuality.

  • Irenist

    Ah, yes. Clinton spoke out against the bill that was defeated in the Ugandan parliament that would have subjected gay people to capital punishment. Such a pawn of the “gay agenda”! Sheesh.

  • I wonder who really is “ready for civilization”?

    Certainly not the U.S. – as Mark himself points out.

    Perhaps “not ready for civilization” is just another way of saying “human, overwhelmed by original sin”.

    The problem with this post seems to me to be the unsubstantiated claims about Ambassador Stevens. Mark’s rhetoric is no more vitriolic than usual, and should be interpreted with the usual charity.

  • Bill Kirby

    Just to clarify something a claim made in the first link for those who don’t know-Brideshead Revisited is not a tragic gay story. Sebastian and Charles have a relationship which heavily suggests homoeroticism, to be sure; but there is no explicit or implicit reference to their engaging in homosexual acts. And the tragedy of Brideshead Revisited is not the same kind of tragedy that befell the ambassador. But you have to read it for yourself to find out.

  • Well I agree with Robert king.It might be something else which we should understand.

  • Irenist

    “Meanwhile, mea culpa for buying the story that prompted the post. I’m stupid.”
    No, you’re brilliant. And you’re the kind of Christian who admits a mistake, which is so very hard, and so very important a skill for all us sinners. God bless you, Mark!

  • Realist

    The Ambassador was well loved by the people of Libya, the vast majority of whom are actually pretty pro-American these days.

    I agree with the lady in the headscarf that held up a sign saying “Thugs and killers” don’t represent her country or her religion. I guess I’m alone here, though.

    • Realist

      I’ll also add that what we’re seeing in the Muslim (more properly the *Middle East*, Muslims in places like Indonesia, Malaysia, Central Asia etc don’t have this problem to the same extent) is a toxic mix of the most wooden, literal interpretation possible of Islam combined with a mish-mash from the toxic waste dump of post-“Enlightenment” western philosophy.

  • Coming late to this, but I have to ask: how many who were ready to throw Mark to the lions because of an imprudent post will retract their own statements now that he has manfully owned up to a mistake? A few have, but not all. Jeez, people, chill. Mark is a class act. How many bloggers do you know who have “Mea Culpa” as a tag?

    • Irenist

      “Mark is a class act. How many bloggers do you know who have “Mea Culpa” as a tag?”

    • Mickey Jackson

      Gladly. Mark did the right thing, which puts him ahead of 99.9% of the Internet.

  • Blog Goliard

    It was a grievous mistake to credit this particular source and run with this particular report. I applaud Mark for–as always–owning up to his mistakes and trying to make them right.

    However, let us not jump to the opposite conclusion too easily. It’s simply a fact that angry armed people have a habit of abusing their victims, living and dead–especially, in our day, in that part of the world. It’s also simply a fact that our government and media have a track record of soft-pedaling and even covering up such events. (This goes back all the way to Jessica Lynch–until she told her full story herself, the military wanted us to believe that her Iraqi captors had behaved like “gentlemen”.)

    I hope and pray that nothing of the sort went on in Benghazi. But I’m not betting the farm on it.

  • thank you for apologizing Mark and setting the record straighter.

  • Ted Seeber

    It isn’t that they aren’t ready for civilization. It is that they have a vastly different definition of civilization than we do, based on a vastly different definition of revelation than we have.

  • Richard Johnson

    Stupid? No! Perhaps a bit quick to draw conclusions, but then your family has been through a lot of late, both good (the wedding and associated celebration) and the bad (financial situation), so the stress surrounding this likely makes one a bit more touchy than normal. Understandable and excusable, especially given that you have corrected yourself. You may be a lot of things, but you are not stupid.

    Hang in there…like kidney stones, this too shall pass.

    • ivan_the_mad

      Well put, Richard. I think that some of the other comments were from folks only too happy to find a cudgel. An emotional response to bad information? Nobody else in the history of the world has ever done that. Let him who is without sin etc.

  • The Next to Last Samurai

    Hi Mark, I read both your original post and your clarification, and I am
    Satisfied you had no malice aforethought.

  • EBS

    I enjoy Marks writing, and if you have been a reader for a while, like myself, you would understand that he is quite passionate about certain topics and this “passion” translates into his emotional choice of words and highly charged writing.
    In light of this, why do people insist on being on the front foot to his wording? For example I get what Mark meant by “not ready to be civilized” and his reference to some of these Muslims as “animals”.
    Why, we had a good bunch of these “uncivilized animals” rioting on the streets of Sydney this past Sunday- beating into police, with young children holding signs up that said non-Muslims “go to hell” and deserve to be “beheaded”. Yes 10 year-olds. And this is third generation Australian Muslims who surely should have been “civilized” by now…
    Thankfully, many of the Muslim leaders condemned this violent protests- hip hip hooray! Finally!
    It seems when you name-call a Muslim (ie.create a tacky movie that by the way, many of the rioting Muslims haven’t even seen), the reaction is a call for blood. Do the same to a Christian, and we grin a bear- no rioting required.
    It seems a true indicator of a “civilized” society is how thick our skin is to criticism.
    It is not politically incorrect to criticize Muslims, just as it clearly hasn’t been politically incorrect, for a very very long time now, to criticize Christians. Toughen up.
    After all, maturity is realizing that criticism will always be thrown your way, and Marks handling of criticism over a bad post (of which he has repeatedly admitted to) is a good example of how a “civilized” person should conduct themselves.