We Don’t Do It. You Make Us Do It. It’s Our Right to Do It. But We Don’t Do It.

We Don’t Do It. You Make Us Do It. It’s Our Right to Do It. But We Don’t Do It. March 14, 2014

In the circular cobweb of bizarro accusations, obfuscations, dissimulations and dead flat lies that pass for commentary coming from Christian bashers, there is a surprising bottom line.

That bottom line has nothing to do with reason, rationality, right or moral/intellectual integrity. In fact, this particular bottom line is the opposite of those things. It is a claim by these people that they can do whatever they want, say whatever they want, and when they do, it is the fault of those they do it to and and say it about.

You may have encountered this line of reasoning in other parts of life. My most frequent encounter with it is among the perpetrators of violence against women. She asked for it, and Look what you made me do, are the commonplaces of excuse-giving among rapists and batterers.

It is, you see, the fault of those we are raping, battering, bashing that we do these things. We have no responsibility for our own tawdry behavior. The fault, dear horatio, lies in in the victim.

I see a lot of this bullying reasoning in the comments that show up here on Public Catholic. Every time I write something about (1) Christian persecution, (2) Christian bashing, (3) attempts to silence Christians and drive them from the public square, or (4) attempts to use government to coerce Christians to violate their beliefs, I know — know — that all I have to do is sit back and wait a few minutes before the abusive rebuts start pouring in.

Most of these abusive rebuts end up sleeping in the delete file. That leads to more abusive rebuts accusing me of all sorts of unsavory character and moral defects, which in turn, sleep in the delete file. This is followed by a good old fashioned thrashing of my intelligence (or lack thereof) morality, womanhood, professional standing and heritage on various Christian-bashing blogs.

Does any of this idiotic aggression prove that Christians are not subjected to bashing/hazing/attempts to silence them/persecution/and a newfound totalitarianism directed at their freedoms?


On the contrary, this name-calling, attempted character assassination, bombast and bullying are all manifestations of precisely and exactly those things.

Aside from the predictability and profanity involved, the paucity of thinking that goes into the attacks from these people who claim that their thinking is “rational” is rather stark.

The lines of argument they use are usually a circular apologetic for two things: Use of government force to coerce Christians to violate their beliefs, and the attempts to drive Christians from the public square. The excuses for this are flat-liner simple.

Here’s how it works.

First, they say they don’t do it.

Gay marriage (as a for instance) will not affect anyone except people who are getting gay married.

If you don’t want an abortion, don’t have an abortion.


When they are confronted with the uncomfortable facts that

People are being taken to court all over this country as well as other countries to force them to participate in gay marriages,

Christians have lost their jobs because of it,

Catholic adoption services and Catholic Charities’ ministries have been forced to close because they won’t refer for abortions or provide children for adoptions to same-sex couples,

The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops has been sued by the ACLU for teaching 2,000-year-old Catholic teachings,


They don’t back down.

Instead, they go on the attack. “You make us do it,” they claim in an eery echo of the batterer’s look what you made me do!  Christians try to force their beliefs on others, the set-piece story goes, and thus they deserve to be pushed from the public square, called ugly names and hazed, both personally and by a deluge of anti-Christian rhetoric, television programming and other media attacks. As for me and my behavior, everything I do and say is justified because Christians are trying to force people to live by their morality.

This confabulated excuse for tawdry behavior ignores the plain fact that this Christian “force” they claim justifies any and all attacks on Christians and Christianity is the exercise of the same Constitutional rights that are available to all Americans.

They are trying to claim with a straight face that demonizing, hazing and constantly attacking a whole group of people is justified because those people (1) vote according to their own beliefs, (2) speak to their elected officials on behalf of their own beliefs, and (3) seek redress in the courts.

These activities are guaranteed rights of every American. You can find them in the First Amendment. They are, ironically, the same freedoms being used to advance the viewpoints these Christian bashers espouse. What these Christian bashers are objecting to is that all Americans, including Christians, have the same rights as they do. They are trying to use personal attacks, hazing and propaganda to batter Christians into acceding their rights as free Americans.

Raise this point, and the resulting cacophony of personal attacks would drown out a full orchestra playing the 1812 Overture.

The reason for these personal attacks are obvious. There is no just reason why Christians should be deprived of their freedom as American citizens to vote according to their beliefs, participate in the political process on behalf of those beliefs or seek redress through the courts. These are among the basic freedoms of American citizens, guaranteed by the First Amendment. The abusive yelling and screaming is a bullying attempt to avoid admitting that forcing Christians to forfeit their rights is, in fact, tyranny.

The interesting thing is that at the same time that Christian bashers are giving loud and verbally abusive explanations as to why the First Amendment does not apply to Christians, they are denying vociferously that they attack Christians unfairly.

When, as always happens on this blog, their abusive behavior nets them a zero, they move to cloying manipulation. The comments shift to feigned civility and syrupy compliments, based on the totally wrong assumption that nobody has ever tried to flatter or manipulate their way past me before.

There is an element of echo-chamber thinking in these attacks. Going back to the virtual clubhouse and counting coup, then trying to outdo one another in how they insult Christians seems to convince Christian bashers that people of faith really are as stupid as they tell each other. I don’t have any other explanation for the sudden turn to obviously manipulative niceness by the same people who’ve been calling me everything but a nice person otherwise.

We don’t do it, they tell us at the outset.

You make us do it, they reply to direct citations of their behavior.

It’s our right to do it, they say when you shut them down and refuse to give them a platform to attack Christians at will.

But we don’t do it, they circle back and proclaim, after their personal attacks don’t bully you into doing what they are demanding.

This is standard stuff in the Christian-bashing blogosphere. I’m writing about it here so that Public Catholic readers will understand it and not be overawed by it.

The first time a jerk throws a pie in your face, it will leave you stunned and speechless. But when the jerks just keep throwing those pies, you’ve got to learn how to stand up for yourself.

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29 responses to “We Don’t Do It. You Make Us Do It. It’s Our Right to Do It. But We Don’t Do It.”

  1. I have noticed a frequent attack method of, well, attack: “You’re so stupid to believe this! You are a bigot! You are an idiot!” with a paucity of facts, and indeed, a total lack of respect, courtesy, or civil tone. It’s a great, albeit elementary bully-style, technique, because nobody likes to be jeered at, laughed at, or made fun of. But if Christians can accept that acceptance by humanity isn’t the goal, and they have already received acceptance by God, then we can keep speaking up and out. A very nice post, well balanced, and reasonable.

  2. Yep, you nailed it. I don’t know which are worse, the atheists or the homosexual marriage people. They both have a radical energy that refuses to listen or even understand. I don’t care if they disagree, but they sink into a level of uncouthness that resembles hysteria. What was I just called: ignorant, a practitioner of stone age mythology, and a member of a cult.

  3. The other tactic I have encountered is when, instead of discussing the issue at hand, they throw some example of Christians or Catholics (past or present) behaving badly, being un-Christian, criminal, immoral, etc. and using that as an excuse for silencing Christians, etc.

  4. I always know that when someone plays the “you/’your people’ aren’t being very CHRISTIAN” card, a) they are not a Christian themselves, b) they think they have somehow excused their own wretched behavior, and c) immediately won the day, when really, d) they have nothing of substance to continue the conversation with, which is why they are moving on to insults of one kind or another. :p

  5. This is what I’ve encountered with many atheists as well.

    Actually, I’ve mentioned before that I was once an atheist, and I can definitely vouch for what you’ve stated in the article regarding the abusive behavior of many non-believers.

    It’s sad that there are both atheists and Christians who continue to perpetuate this cycle of bigotry and hatred. Sigh…

    “We must discover the power of love, the power, the redemptive power of love. And when we discover that we will be able to make of this old world a new world. We will be able to make men better. Love is the only way.”
    –Martin Luther King, Jr.

  6. Some people think that argument consists of flinging a series of “zingers” at their opponents. The fact that their zingers don’t have much “zing,” and are usually stale, recycled accusations seems to elude them. When their opponents don’t collapse in shame, as they anticipated, they get frustrated, and try to strengthen their attack by flinging even harsher zingers. And so on, and so on, because they don’t have anything else to offer to defend their positions.

  7. This is the most right-on piece on this subject I’ve read – and I e read some good pieces. THANK YOU. Just three nights ago, I got into a deep conversation with a young ROTC private from a local college, who was eating alone in the sme burrito joint I’d popped into.

    He was a smart, articulate, well read, enrilled at a top liberal arts college, mature-beyond -his -18-years man, but his line of thinking chilled me to the bone. Willing to die for the security of his country (not the Founding Ideals or the Bill of Rights), willing to carry out a hit on fellow citizens if he President ordered it, and especially on Christians and Tea Party members. He’d experienced bullying as a “minority” in his high school by people identified as Christians, and he had a clear grudge– and clearly no good example of the real love of Christ. His intelligence, combined with his bitterness and cold rationality, all wrpped in Army fatigues, really took me aback. I wondered if I was looking into the face of my future executioner.

    We talked for well over an hour, and as it was pouring out, I gave him a lift the two miles to campus. I told him that I, too, was willing to die — for Christ’s ideal and example of love for enemies in the face of persecution, and because I came to believe in His perfect love, and that I too –and my fellow CAtholics– were part of the Chirch Militant for the cause of those highest ideals.

    It was an amazing experience and, while I have no illusions that I changed his mind, I could sense, in his silent listening, that a seed had been planted. “I planted, Apollos watered, but God made it grow.” (1 Cor 3:6)

  8. Yes. Thank you for this very clear description of what I’ve been seeing all over the webz for the last 5 years or so. Thank you also for being willing to stand up publicly against it. I remember that post a few weeks ago where you let all the hate-comments through for observation; you face those daily and still you hold on. You are a fresh breath of hope.

  9. When an argument cannot withstand intellectual or philosophical scrutiny, certain debate-stopping tactics must be employed. First, is changing the definitions of words, and second is name-calling. Modern debate has degraded to a point that reasoned, principled argument is no longer possible. Our hyper-sensitive culture turns every argument into a personal attack, which then degrades into juvenile quarrels. This is called “progress” by the very people guilty of not allowing debate to take a single step forward.

  10. Good article. In the absence of any recognized, legitimate authority, all authority turns sociopathic. In a twisted sense battered women are asking for it and batterers are perversely asserting authority. In America the absence of legitimate authority higher than “my own rights” leads inevitably to perverse and contradictory applications of “rights.” It was inevitable, though. It’s right there in the Constitution. It’s just that Christians are on the wrong side of it now.

  11. Writing persuasive arguments requires one to consider the audience. It is very important to use an appeal that is consistent on how your audience will receive that message. When you feel that that group will disagree with you, it is imperative to acknowledge and address their reasons for disagreeing with your message. If one can not do this, I wouldn’t think that any productive results can be obtained.

  12. Agreed. And it was a place I rarely eat. I had 15 minutes before a meeting, i don’t have an eating-out budget at the moment, but i just “had” to go in. Five minutes later be walked in. As my own son plans to go to officer training, and since he was reading a thick book instead of getting on his Iphone, reminding me of my own studious-soldier son, I greeted him and asked him about the book as I was clearing my table. We quickly got into a deep groove. I apologized for interrupting his meal and would go, but he said no, he didn’t mind, he enjoyed debate. (Frankly, he seemed a bit lonely and I guessed this was due to his keen mind — students here are very hedonistic and I’m underwhelmed by their intellectual curiosity. )

    So the whole thing indeed felt directed by the HS, the ever- gracious Paraclete. I adore young people anyway and as a mom and frustrated teacher, its easy for me to go up and do a bit of conversation. But this was beyond the usual “so what’s your major and where are you from” exchange. Our Lord is good!

  13. Yes! Fed up one day, I turned the “you people” back on my brother whom I dearly love but is heavily influenced by this nonsense that Rebecca references. Raised Catholic and now a Buddhist, I said “you people are so violent setting yourselves on fire”. I respect buddhists but I wanted him to experience the generalizations he was throwing around toward the faith our family was raised in. It worked and we still have long talks and he is seeing the logic and love in our positions — still a long way to go.

  14. I believe it is more than just hysteria. It resembles demonic rage, and, given that it accompanies attacks on Christ and His Church, it probably is.

  15. Paradoxically, we should be glad for such a response for one reason. It shows we are on the right track!

    Mt 5: 10, Lk 21: 7 and Jn 15: 20-1 to name a few.

  16. Remember that one of their heroes, the uneven Mr. Dawkins, clearly said that atheists should go forth and “Mock them, ridicule them in public. Don’t fall for the convention that we’re all too polite to talk about religion. Religion makes specific claims about the Universe which need to be substantiated and challenged.”

    This is his high minded strategy! This is the person who pretends to be a science advocate – not debate them and reason with them, but mock them.

    I have a nephew who is an atheist and he spouts the same thing. He says when he encounters someone who does not believe in gay marriage or any of their other sacred cows, he purposely tries to ridicule them as much as possible – this is his attempt at showing his superiority.

  17. You’re pretty RIGHT ON in your remarks here, and it’s unfortunately only going to get worse prior to the 2014 election, for the forces of evil are assaulting this country nonstop as they sense stunning defeat for their noxious cause in the wind, mostly centered around the catastrophic failure known as Obamacare, and their inability to do anything about it except to lie and obfuscate and let the LameStream Media continue to lie and obfuscate on behalf of their “cause.” Unfortunately, whenever I come across the stats that are pretty much showing that some 90% of married Catholic women are marinating in their various contraceptive devices while calling themselves “faithful” to their Catholic Faith by going to Mass once a week, I think to myself, well, we’re in this monumental pickle as a nation as a consequence to sin being called “choice.” Too many Catholics didn’t listen to “Humanae Vitae” back in 1969 when it was issued, and the Pastors and Priests today NEVER talk about it from the space they occupy as our moral guides. I’m kind of bloviating about “apples” when your post was really about “oranges,” THAT I realize, but you and I know there’s a very real CONNECTION. Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.

  18. Rebecca,

    Pope John Paul II wrote the following shortly before his death:

    It is legitimate and even necessary to ask whether this [homosexual ‘marriage’] is not the work of another ideology of evil, more subtle and hidden, perhaps, intent upon exploiting human rights themselves against man and the family.

    (Ref.: “Memory and Identity,” Rizzoli, NY 2005, Chapter 2, p. 11, published posthumously)

    He literally compared the liberal agenda (which today includes the sacred cows of homosexuality and abortion) to a “ideology of evil” similar to the destructiveness of communism and Nazism, which he mentioned earlier in his book.

    Christians are indeed up against great evil.

    Your last advise is really to the point: “But when the jerks just keep throwing those pies, you’ve got to learn how to stand up for yourself.” I only wish that more Christians knew how to do that.

    Thanks for your article.

  19. Christian bashers will be with us until the end of time. The sad fact is they are impervious to logic or truth. We have to persevere, and pray for them….

  20. I’ve been to a retreat this week and the most important theme was Matthew 5:39 ”But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.”
    It was very difficult for us to come to terms with the implications of Jesus’s words but it became clear that the Christian way to the glory of resurrection is through the cross. Christians will be persecuted and the answer of Jesus to this persecution was to open his arms on the Cross and die for sinners. My take home message from this retreat was that I, as a Catholic and Christian have a duty to witness to the Truth with love and charity. Then the attacks that will follow my witnessing to Christ will be my opportunity for me to truly live Matthew 5:39. If we as Christians resist with anger and virulence the attacks of the evil agenda that is drowning our secular society we will be acting like them. It is a difficult task not to be indignant when we are attacked but the best example I saw was that of the Belgian archbishop who was attacked by FEMEN activists and he remained praying as he was drenched with water, and also the Catholics who encircled the Cathedral in Argentina as it was being ‘attacked’ by a mass of anti-christians who support abortion. These people are our brothers and sisters too and it is a pity that they are pawns in an evil game. We need to pray for them. Rebecca, I admire you for writing these articles and for standing staunchly amidst these challenges as you must be really like a voice shouting in the desert. Perhaps we need to pray more and whilst being clear, brave and uncompromising in our witness to Christ we will also need to gladly accept and not resist the cross of persecution that will grow worse in the future. I think we need to pray for them point them towards the love of God as Pope Francis is doing.

  21. Actually, perhaps because of my study of Papal economics, I also get it from the business people. Each seems to have their own needs for disordered appetites that *must* be filled regardless of who they hurt.

  22. You make several valuable points, but I think your main criticism is in error. Christ did not play the doormat before the Sanhedrin: when struck, he replied, “If there is something wrong with what I have said, point it out; but if not, why do you strike me?” He didn’t reply with violence, which would simply provoke escalation, but neither did he acquiesce. He did confront the violence and identify it as both unlawful and unjust, but in a way which provided for (eventual) conversion. This provides a meaningful interpretation of Christ’s teaching to turn the other cheek: we do not retaliate with violence and we do not leave the perpetrator to identify himself as having accomplished something good by his violence, but instead call him into a new space where grace can act. Mother Teresa illustrated this when she brought a homeless little girl by the hand into a bakery to beg for bread for her. When the baker spat full in Mother Teresa’s face, she replied, “Thank you for that gift for me; now perhaps something for the little girl?”
    God bless you,

  23. I’m guess I’m one of those business people, even though I’ not in business. I don’t think I’ve ever agreed with a Pope on economics, except on their denunciation of socialism and communism. What can I say, when they’re wrong, they’re wrong. 😉

  24. Hi Greg,
    Totally agree with you. Maybe I did not make my point clear enough. I think it is our Christian duty to point out that any aggressive action by persecutors is wrong because otherwise we would be uncharitable in not providing them with an opportunity to open up to God’s Grace by realizing they are in error. The important thing is that we do not retaliate in kind and whilst providing a clear testimony for Christ, we need to make sure that our behaviour leaves space for the other person to wonder why we do not answer back with violence. This would probably be the best testimony we could give even though sometimes it infuriates even more the aggressor – but that is part of cross we willingly carry as Christians.

  25. brilliant article ! I get attacked all the time from militant atheists and they are just laughable,….they always patronise and name call, and when you show their ‘research’ and false claims up, they get even angrier and deny it (even though they are wrong about historical and other things they try and claim), and then go on about me being mentally ill for believing in fairy tales, and so on. I actually told several (one a film maker) if they would like to put their money where their mouth was, as a friend had some very threatening dangerous poltergeist demonic activity in his house. I asked these militant atheists if they would like to text their ‘beliefs’ and witness true phenomena of this kind, and then be shown that they are wrong. I also said an exorcism would be taking place at the house soon after, and this would be a test to show them if the name of Jesus Christ was indeed imaginary and non existent, or actually true and our saviour, and that His name would cast out the evil demon…. I said they had a chance to document this phenomena and then be proven wrong and then would need to be honest and change their life views, or…I would be proven wrong if all i said was untrue…

    Do you think any of the militant atheists came ? I had more hate and accusations of being a fraud and liar, and that they ‘didn’t need to come’ as they ‘knew it was all BS’, yet kept saying they were scientifically minded….. except of course to come and do what scientists ought to, which is to investigate and find evidence for or against. They avoided my requests like the plague and then blocked communication with me as they didn’t like be publicly called out denying my offer… so next time militant atheists keep talking BS about ‘no scientific evidence’ and all their usual excuses, remember that they do not want evidence but instead choose to dishonestly avoid it….why ? Possibly as deep down, in their subconsious, they feel there is indeed a God, which their lifestyles and cannot be compatible with..could this be it ?