I Chose Christ, and He is There on All the Altars of All the Catholic Churches in the World.

I Chose Christ, and He is There on All the Altars of All the Catholic Churches in the World. June 4, 2015

Photo Source: Flickr Creative Commons by Robert Cheaib https://www.flickr.com/photos/theologhia/
Photo Source: Flickr Creative Commons by Robert Cheaib https://www.flickr.com/photos/theologhia/

The Catholic Patheosi are writing about why we chose to stay in the doomed Catholic Church.

I mean, it’s been in all the news lately that the Catholic Church is on the way out. We’re supposed to be over and done for, or at least going down for the count. Catholic teachings are irrelevant to the world today, or so we’re told.

So why would anyone stay in the Catholic Church? Is staying Catholic a twisted desire for irrelevance and being out of step with the world? Do we stay because we have nothing better to do with that hour each week?

Here, in three sentences, is why I stay.

1. Christ in the Eucharist called me to the Catholic Church.

2. Christ is in the Eucharist.

3. Christ has not told me to leave.

That’s it.

To the best of my ability, and according to the grace that I am given, I follow Jesus Christ and Him crucified. If you want to find Jesus Christ and Him crucified, go to a Catholic Church. He’s there, on all the altars of all the Catholic Churches in all the world.

The priest may ride with Jesse James, and the bishop may be as confused as the priest. The people in the seats around you may be all kinds of sinners. You may be all kinds of sinner yourself.  But Jesus Christ the Lord is there — body, blood, soul and divinity — on that altar. And He’s there for you.

You can reach out and touch Him. You can partake of Him. You can be blessed, healed and loved by Him in a concrete, direct and completely reliable way, just by going to a Catholic Church and taking communion.

You hold out your hands and Christ is laid on your upright palm. You taste the wine and the blood of God Who died for you enters into you. You partake of His Passion, and you share in His triumph. He rose so that you may live forever. He died so that you can enter into God’s great ocean of mercy and forgiveness. He cleansed you with that blood you taste, saved you with the flesh hidden in bread on your palm.

I am not leaving the Catholic Church, because Christ in the Eucharist called me to the Church. I am not leaving the Catholic Church, because Christ is in the Eucharist and I partake of Him and His blessings in communion. I stay in the Catholic Church because my Lord and my God put me here and He has not told me to leave.

I chose Christ, and He is there on all the altars of all the Catholic Churches in all the world.


Browse Our Archives

What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment

42 responses to “I Chose Christ, and He is There on All the Altars of All the Catholic Churches in the World.”

  1. Jesus Christ founded a Church. That Church is the sacrament of salvation. That Church is the Catholic Church.

    About Jesus Christ and the Church, I simply know they’re just one thing, and we shouldn’t complicate the matter. – St. Joan of Arc

    I will go peaceably and firmly to the Catholic Church: for if Faith is so important to our salvation, I will seek it where true Faith first began, seek it among those who received it from God Himself. – St. Elizabeth Ann Seton

  2. Please, realize that God doesn’t make any errors. It is impossible for Him to fail, Matthew 19: 26. He tells us in Revelation 17: 1-6 what the false church is. It’s not the congregation…there will be many, many authentic Christians from the Catholic denomination that will see paradise. By the way, God doesn’t really care about denominations per say…God’s word is what it is.

    God’s word divides because people aren’t really looking for truth in God…they are looking for a smooth, easy, comfortable religion that will allow them to live the way they please and still give assurance of salvation. There is indeed no true religion that can do that for them. Matthew 10: 34-39, “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.

    God is talking about a spiritual sword, of course. He’s talking about believers and non believers…those that recognize and obey and those that don’t. Those that follow Him have come to an understanding of the truth and do His will and those that don’t…don’t.

    The problem is not the Catholic congregation who are sort of in the dark about this.
    However, God does says in Revelation 18: 4, And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues…the plagues talked about in Revelation. If you believe the plagues that fell on Egypt, well, doesn’t history repeat itself?

    Notice God says, “Come out of her.” “Her,” as in “woman” and woman in Revelation is symbolic of a “church.” In this case, “the false church.”

    Here are some hints and remember, God doesn’t lie: Numbers 23: 19, “God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent. And again reaffirmed in Titus 1: 2, in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began. There it is!

    A serious study of the biblical description of antichrist will show:

    1. It will rise to be a great power after the fall of the pagan Roman empire (after 476 A.D.), (Daniel 7:7, 8)

    2. It will be a geographically small nation (“little horn”) (Daniel 7:8) I suppose the “Vatican?” It’s its own country!

    3. It will rule over many people, nations and tongues (it will be universal) (Revelation 17:15)
4. It will be headquartered in the city of seven hills, Revelation 17: 9. (Rome is located on seven hills). The seven hills of Rome are: Palatine, Capitoline, Quirinal, Viminal, Esquiline, Caelian and Aventine. Together, they span approximately 110 acres (Encyclopedia Brittannica).
 Rome is known as the city of seven hills.
    5. It will be a religio-political entity?a political city-state that is ruled by a priest-king. Who brokered the U.S., Cuba deal? We all know it was the Vatican, right?(Revelation 17:3?A beast symbolizes political power, and a woman symbolizes a religious power…a church)
6. Its priest-king will make great and blasphemous claims. (Daniel 7:25)

    7. It will claim authority over all kings (Revelation 14:8) Remember the power it had during the Dark Ages or Middle Ages.

    8. It will claim to have power to change the times and laws of God set as its mark of authority. (Daniel 7:25). The Church changed Saturday worship for Sunday worship. Saturday is God’s day and not Sunday…never was. It’s Commandment number 4. Exodus 20:8-11 and Leviticus 23: 3.
 If you want to know the history…respond.
    9. It will be an apostate church that makes the nations drink her cup of apostate doctrine. Revelation 17:4, The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication. One more thing…This verse talks about two colors, purple and scarlet. Who wears the the purple? Answer: the bishops. Who wears the scarlet(red)? Answer: the cardinals. 

    10. It will be a “mother” church with apostate daughters coming from her. (Revelation 17:5) 

    11. It will be a persecuting power, killing the faithful saints of Jesus Christ as heretics. (Revelation 17:6) Remember the “Dark Ages? Approximately 50,000,000 died!
    12. It will hold power and authority for 1260 years following the fall of pagan Rome. (Daniel 7:25). 1798A.D.-538 A.D.= 1260. 538 A.D. is the year the Papacy was born.

    13. It will suffer a deadly wound that will end 1260 years of dominance and persecution, and when it is revived after the deadly wound all the world will wonder at its revival. (Revelation 13:3) What happened in 1798? Something to do with the French Revolution. In 1798 Napoleon’s General Berthier took the pope captive for 10 years and the papal power received its deadly wound. It lost its power. Needless to say, that pope died in prison. It was pope Pius VI, 1793-1798.
 But after the deadly wound healed, All the world wondered after the beast. Rev 13:3. The papacy survived.

 Please understand that it is the system(The OFFICE of the Papacy)and teachings that I see as defective, and that nothing I say here is directed towards the Catholic members themselves.

    God Bless all!

  3. Johnnysc,

    Please, be true and not political. You write, “I will seek it where true Faith first began, seek it among those who received it from God Himself – St. Elizabeth Ann Seton.”

    True faith first began with Abraham in the Old Testament and then with Jesus’ disciples in the New Testament. The writers of the New Testament were all Jews with the exception of Luke who was a gentile.

    The true Church is in Jerusalem because that’s where it started and not Rome. When Christ returns to earth a third time after the “thousand year reign,” the new city or New Jerusalem will land on the mount of Olives. God will make His home there with the saints…not Rome. Ask your priest whether Zion or Jerusalem is the City of God or not. Search the Scriptures.

    Zacharia 14: 4, And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
    Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
    And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
    From east to west,
    Making a very large valley;
    Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
    And half of it toward the south.

  4. Cooba, you take a lot of things out of context, both from the Gospels and Revelation as well as others.
    First, the city called Babylon the Great in the Revelation is either Rome, the secular, powerful empire, or Jerusalem, which has also been referred to as the harlot. That is how the Church, Biblical scholars and Christians have seen that description in Scripture until very recently. Your whole narration about Napoleon and the papacy is a new accretion with no basis.
    You make an error in interpretation based on a man, John Darby, from the 19th century who believed a private revelation. His interpretation has effected much of evangelical apocalyptic theology since then, but it is very new.
    What is directly from the words of Our Savior, however, is that we should eat His Body and Drink His Blood. That is what we do at each mass, every hour of every day throughout the whole world.
    The Church has fulfilled the Gospel mandate to go into all the world.
    I’m not leaving the Church, either.
    Thank you, Rebecca.

  5. Cooba, the Apostoles were ordained and given authority directly by Jesus, Son of God and God Incarnate. Those same Apostles are the foundations of the Church, Jesus’ bride. They minister through the Church.
    And, we do not believe in a millennial reign. The Church is already here. It isn’t going to fall out of heaven onto Zion.

  6. AnneG,

    You don’t believe in a millenial reign? The words I use revolve around Scripture. Do you think I make this stuff up? I’ll take you to Revelation.

    Who is Christ coming for when He returns a second time? Is it the wicked or the righteous(the saints)? The latter, Amen! And where is Christ taken them? To heaven! How do we know this? John 14: 1-4, “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. 4 And where I go you know, and the way you know.”

    Jesus is preparing a place for His Church in heaven. The fact of the matter is that He is coming for His Church and taken them to heaven(I go to prepare a place for you…see above) and the saints will reign with Him a thousand years. Revelation 4-6, And I saw thrones, and they(saints) sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw
    the souls of those(saints) who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is
    he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests(The saints or Church) of God and of Christ, and shall
    reign with Him a thousand years.

    There you have it, AnneG. Where do you think the Father resides? In heaven, right? The verses in Revelation 4-6 talk about the first resurrection and the second death. Have you ever heard this before? Born once…you die twice, born twice…you die once. The first birth is a physical birth…you are born into this world. The second birth is a spiritual birth in which you come to the knowledge of the Truth. If you read John 3 where Jesus is visited by Nicodemus, the rich Pharisee who is part of the Sanhedrin, Jesus talks to him about being born again. In John 3: 3, Jesus says to Nicodemus, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot
    tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

    So AnneG, when you are searching for God, God finds you. In this case, the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does what it does and you have this second birth…spiritual birth. After that, you want to repent of your sins and be baptized by water, publicly declaring that a change has occurred in your heart. That “old person” who you used to be is now gone and as a result you are a new creature in Christ. At this point, you have officially entered into the family of God. That is the spiritual birth that Christ is talking about…you have come to the knowledge of the Truth!

    So, you are born the second time(spiritual birth) and taken further steps to be baptized by water and on to salvation, hoping you never deviate from Christ. I say this because a save person can always choose to be lost. God never takes our freewill away. Notice I said Choose… Didn’t Lucifer who was the closes to God of any angel choose to disobey and rebel?

    The ones with just the physical birth and not the spiritual birth will become part of the wicked because they have rejected the Holy Spirit, the unpardonable sin that Jesus talked about in Matthew 12: 31-32. For God it is blasphemous. The Holy Spirit works on all of us and it leads humans to the knowledge of the truth. If people do not make a case for Christ before the Lord returns and if the Lord should appear, these people will have sealed their fate…too late. They will be the goats and you know what happens after.

    These “true Christians” that have taken these steps and held to the end will be resurrected by Christ at His second coming. They will not suffer a second death. In fact, some Christians will never taste death. They will be translated. How do we know this? 1 Corinthians 15: 51,52; Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep(die), but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

    When Christ returns, the dead in Christ will be resurrected first and those that are Christians or believers, still living will be translated(raptured…caught up) and meet the Lord in the air. 1 Thessalonians 4: 16, 17; For the Lord Himself
    will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and
    remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

    The saints will have received their new bodies. 1 Corinthians 15: 53-55; For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”
    “O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?”

    Hades typically means the “grave” in Greek. The saints have conquered the grave along with Jesus…Jesus being the first fruits.

    What happens to the wicked when Jesus returns? Psalms 50: 3,4; Our God shall come, and shall not keep silent;
    A fire shall devour before Him,
    And it shall be very tempestuous all around Him.
    He shall call to the heavens from above,
    And to the earth, that He may judge His people:

    It will surprise people. The word “tempestuous” above meaning there will be turbulence all around. The wicked will be destroyed! 2 Peter 3: 10, But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens(atmosphere) will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with fervent heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. Isaiah 29: 6, You will be punished by the Lord of hosts
    With thunder and earthquake and great noise, With storm and tempest And the flame of devouring fire.

    There’s that word again, tempest. AnneG, there will be a great earthquake, tidal waves sinking islands and fire. All manner of destruction…again, it will be tempestuous all around. All the wicked will die here on earth and no one will be around to bury them because they will all be dead. Jeremiah 25: 33, “Those slain by the LORD on that day will be from one end of the earth to the other. They will not be lamented, gathered or buried; they shall become refuse on the ground.

    In fact, the earth will be uninhabitable…it will be dark and void, the bottomless pit just like in Genesis 1: 2, The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. Revelation 20: 1-3, Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and
    he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished.

    AnneG, The Lord is talking in symbolic language here about bounding Satan in chains. Well, you can’t bound Satan in chains because he is a spirit, an angel. He is just bound to this earth for a thousand years to ponder his fate. Notice what the verse also says in Revelation 20: 3, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand
    years were finished. Why do you think he won’t be able to deceive the nations anymore? Because everybody is dead! There is no one here on earth at this time. The age came to an end! Just Satan and his angels.

    I’m giving you Scripture, now. I’m not making this up. Look it up yourself…

    Now, why a thousand years? Because the Lord is going to return to this sick earth to resurrect the wicked for the final judgement! You have to use logic here comparing scripture with scripture, understand? What does Revelation 20: 7-10 say? Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations(the wicked will have been resurrected because before there were none living on earth, remember?) which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them(wicked) together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city(The New Jerusalem). And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire(hell) and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever, Revelation 20: 7-10.

    Let me explain, hell is not forever. The affects of the fire is eternal, however. God is simply saying that this fire which is an eternal flame(because it comes from an eternal being) is going to take whatever time it needs to do its job. No one will be able to quench this fire or artificially be put out by someone. How do we know this? Isaiah 47: 14, Behold, they shall be as stubble, The fire shall burn them; They shall not deliver themselves From the power of the flame; It shall not be a coal to be warmed by, Nor a fire to sit before!

    We can go to Malachi 4: 1-3 and it basically says the same thing about the future Final Judgment…The Great White Throne Judgment. “For behold, the day is coming,
    Burning like an oven,
    And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble.
    And the day which is coming shall burn them up,”
    Says the Lord of hosts,
    “That will leave them neither root nor branch.
    But to you who fear My name
    The Sun of Righteousness shall arise
    With healing in His wings;
    And you shall go out
    And grow fat like stall-fed calves.
    You shall trample the wicked,
    For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
    On the day that I do this,”
    Says the Lord of hosts.

    Now, AnneG, Where do you suppose all this happens? It happens here on earth when the Lord returns after the thousand year reign. The Lord destroys the wicked with fire while He cleanses the earth all at the same time! Why fire? Because it removes all impurities. Fire takes all the impurities out of gold, right? Are you understanding?

    Anyway, the saints will walk on the ashes of the wicked. This tells you that the fire has to stop or end at some point, right?

    It has to…where will the saints or righteous reside? On the earth! How do we know this? Blessed are the meek, For they shall inherit the earth, Matthew 5: 5. There are so many references to this. Here’s another one, He himself shall dwell in prosperity, And his descendants(His seed) shall inherit the earth. He’s talking about the saint…the righteous.

    God is going to restore the earth like it was in the original. Oh yes, The New Jerusalem, the city of God will come down from heaven along with the saints…that colossal city coming down from heaven will be literal. Is anything impossible for God? No. Matthew 19: 26, all things are possible with God. Read Revelation 21. All things will be made new.

    There you have it, AnneG. I pray this increases your faith.

  7. AnneG,

    I meant to say that the people with only the physical birth…you know, the ones who are born once? Well, they suffer the second death from which there is no resurrection…they die a second time for all eternity; they are destroyed. Revelation 20: 6, Blessed and holy is
    he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death
    has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall
    reign with Him a thousand years. Revelation 20: 11-15, Then I saw a great white throne and Him who
    sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there
    was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The
    sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up
    the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to
    his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

  8. I go to Church and listen and listen and study and study and fellowship with the good Lord. You do realize that the word was written for us.

    But when I listen and study, I have a Bible in hand and scripture is given to us.

    Did you know that the saints are called priests of God? What do you think that means? The Pope is just a human being, a sinner like me no disrespect. He’s going to die just like the other popes and just like the disciples of Jesus. Why? Hebrews 9: 27, And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment.

    We are “ALL” sinners and come short of the glory of God, Romans 3: 23. All…and that includes the Pope.

    As you say, “The Church is the sacrament of salvation.” The Church…the people themselves need to be working in the vineyard and not solely the priests or ministers. WE need to minister to each other as well. Am I not truthful about this? Aren’t workers needed in the vineyard? You don’t have to be a priest or a minister.

  9. Cooba, everything you have just said, with the exception of the comments about your own self, is Catholic teaching. I don’t think your problem is with the Catholic Church. I think your problem may be with things you’ve been told about the Catholic Church.

  10. Cooba … this is waaayyyyy to long for a combox. Shorten your comments, please. Aim for a paragraph or less.

  11. Cooba, I’m functionally familiar with all the many scriptures you site, most taken completely out of context, interpreted a little wrong, adding to a way out of context interpretation.
    We do not believe in a millennial reign and most of your literalistic, futuristic interpretation.
    I believe you love the Lord, I just don’t interpret Scripture the way you do.
    I interpret Scripture according to the teaching of the whole Church as She has throughout history.

  12. AnneG,

    Let me ask you this question that every professing Christian should know…In reference to Jesus saving us, why did He had to die to save us?

  13. hamiltonr,

    I was asked a question about me and what gives me the right to interpret Scripture…so I answered.

    Friend…it’s ALL about Jesus!

  14. By the way, I was a former Catholic myself but like I said before…the truth of the matter has nothing to do with a particular denomination.

    The body of Christ…The Church, has nothing to do with a “denomination” but solely the truth. Jesus said in John 4: 24, God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

    I want to worship and know the TRUTH of God and so should every other Christian. That’s what matters…

  15. AnneG;

    First, you didn’t answer my question. I believe I did ask you a question and if not, well, I apologize. However, neither you nor anybody else has given me any Scripture to prove the words that I used which revolved around Scripture to be wrong or untrue.

    Can you give me any Scripture to show me that I have erred or that I’m untruthful of the reasoning I illustrated revolving around Scripture? I’ve given you Scripture but notice…you haven’t.

    Why was Jesus triumphant over the devil? Jesus put on the full armor of God…He used the Word.
    It is written, it is written…

    I used logic and then backed it up with Scripture. No one has shone me otherwise. Full armor of God, Ephesians 6: 10-18, Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For
    we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful
    to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints—

    Jesus Christ is the Author and Finisher of our faith. Always remember that He is not an Author of confusion.

    AnneG, I love my Catholic friends. I pray for them. Let me tell you something. I was a former Catholic, I know… some of the teachings did not make sense to me. When I read the Scriptures and heard other faithfuls preach it, my heart was burning. It was burning because it was preached with confidence, understanding and love. The truth was not complicated and you know it when you hear it.

    AnneG, Thanks for your responses and may the good Lord richly bless you. If you want to dialogue some more, I’m open to it.

  16. “I go to Church and listen and listen and study and study and fellowship with the good Lord.”

    So? I go to Mass as the Lord commanded us and listen to the Liturgy of the Word and ponder and receive the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord. When I listen I have the Scripture at hand and when I study I have the Bible which was given to us by the Catholic Church and the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

    You still haven’t answered the question…..by what authority do you get to interpret Scripture for us?

  17. Don’t interrogate other commenters Johnny. People don’t need any authority to state their opinions here other than that they are their opinions.

  18. Cooba, I’m going to say the same thing to you that I said to another person who commented your comment: Do not interrogate other commenters. Anne has not responsibility to answer questions on this blog.

    Also, this comment is far too long. I will start deleting if you don’t shorten your comments.

  19. Cooba, I support your decision to follow Christ by the light you are given. However, if you are a former Catholic, there are many things you did not learn about your Church when you were there.

    Having said that, I have no problem with talking about these inter-denominational differences, so long as it is done from the perspective that there is one Jesus and we are all His followers.

  20. I can start with creation, but this could get a little long.
    Romans 5:12 and following. 12 Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned*– 13sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sins were not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
    15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift in the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.* 16And the free gift is not like the effect of that one man’s sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brings justification. 17If, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

  21. hamiltonr,

    Well, we were having a dialogue. It’s obvious that she doesn’t have to answer but we were having a dialogue, nevertheless. She can speak for herself, don’t you think?

    Hey, brother, May the good Lord richly bless you!

  22. If someone is going to interpret Scripture and tell us what it means especially how dangerous it seems to be to be a Catholic I want to know where they get their authority to do this? It’s a simple question. How bout you Rebecca? How do you come to believe what you believe about Scripture?

  23. Your right the Body of Christ, the Catholic Church has nothing to do with denominations. It is the One True Church that Christ founded. As far as the Truth is concerned it seems you have strayed…..

    Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
    Jesus founded the Catholic Church.
    That Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth.

    When you separate Jesus from His Church the Catholic Church nothing good can happen as Pope Francis says here…..

    “Without the Church and her guidance, our relationship with Christ “would be at the mercy of our imagination, our interpretations, our moods,” the Roman Pontiff continued.

    It is not possible to understand the salvation offered by Jesus without also appreciating the motherhood of the Church, he explained, adding that it is also impossible to love and belong to Christ without loving and belonging to the Church, because the Church is God’s family who brings Christ to humanity.”


  24. I repeat: Don’t interrogate commenters. You might try just asking why they feel this way. It takes on a different connotation than demanding by what authority. In short, be gentle, be civil, and remember that no one has a responsibility to answer you.

  25. I seem to be running into a big of disagreement here, so let me be clear. I don’t allow interrogations on this blog.

  26. I’m sorry brother but I was hoping you would have a teachable spirit since we’re having this dialogue.

    God Bless!

  27. Cooba, let me first ask you a question. How did Scripture come to be?
    Second, Jesus struggled in his humanity with satan in the desert and in His Passion, Death and Resurrection He defeated Him. Jesus is the Word. The Romans quote is for us, not for Him.
    Btw, why would you ever give up Jesus? He said He would never leave us and in the Church on every altar, every day we have Him, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity to take with us in Holy Communion.

  28. Alright AnneG, You asked me a question…How did scripture come to be?

    I can certainly say that man physically wrote it but it was really authored by the Holy Spirit. The words and thoughts came from the Holy Spirit and not man. How do we know this?

    Romans 8: 5-8, For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
    This is why the words and thoughts did not come from men. It was never an initiative set by man.

    Here’s where the words and thoughts came from: 2 Peter 1: 21, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. There it is! 2 timothy 3: 16, All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness…There it is, again.

    Yes, Jesus did struggle but nevertheless Jesus was Triumphant! John 16: 33, These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”

    AnneG, I might have left Jesus temporarily in the past as many of us do but He never left me.
    Well, I answered one of yours. It would be nice if you can answer one of mine…the one in reference to Jesus saving us.

  29. Cooba, I have completely lost track of what question about Jesus and salvation you wanted answered.
    Btw, Scripture is inspired by God, but the books we call the Bible were put together by two Councils of the Church, at Hippo and Carthage in the 4th century. The Church, the Catholic Church, predates the Bible and it is through Her authority that we have Scripture as we do. It is the Word of God, but He worked through the Church to give us what we need.
    “To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant.” Bl John Newman

  30. I answered your question below, but here it is again. It would be too long if I started Salvation History at creation.
    Romans 5:12 and following. 12 Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned*– 13sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sins were not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
    15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift in the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.* 16And the free gift is not like the effect of that one man’s sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brings justification. 17If, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

  31. AnneG, Verse 13…about the law of God. Many Christians are not taught this and this is why there’s confusion among Christians. Please understand that that law is an eternal law…it always existed. It existed before God gave it, The Ten Commandments. It is part of God’s character and God couldn’t change it any more than He could change Himself. What that verse is trying to say to the believers is that it is still binding. Do you understand?

    Isn’t the moral law of God, the Ten Commandments Christian principles? Who can find fault in the handwriting of God? It doesn’t save you, however it is God’s Will to obey it…not legalistically but with love. After all, both Jesus and Paul say that love is the fulfilling of the law, right?

    That being said, does the grace of God blott out the law? No! This is what Paul says in Romans 3: 31, Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law. He doesn’t say we establish the “Old Covenant”…that wouldn’t sound right, would it?

    In fact, the wicked will fall under the condemnation of that law. James 2: 10-12, For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. Ah…the law of love and liberty, The Ten Commandments.

    That question I asked you in reference to Jesus saving us…why Jesus had to die to save us? Jesus had to die in order to save us because that very law was violated BECAUSE of sin. The wages of sin is death, Romans 6: 23. What is sin? Sin is the transgression of the law, 1 John 3: 4. Breaking that law meant eternal death and the penalty of the law had to be paid in full. Before the foundation of the world, Jesus made that decision with His Father(the first covenant ever)to save us. How do we know this? John 15: 16, You did not choose Me, but I chose you. As you know, He took our place. He didn’t have to do it but because He loves us.

    That is an unchangeable law. Malachi 3: 6, “I the LORD do not Change.” Again in Hebrews 13: 8, Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

    AnneG, there is your answer…

  32. Jesus gave Himself up to death on a cross, a curse, to fulfill the Law as a perfect sacrifice, both Priest and Victim to restore our relationship with God.
    He fulfilled the law and brought the New Covenant in His Blood.

  33. The fulfilling of the law is the result of the way Jesus lived His life on this earth and Jesus being nailed to the cross was the result of violating that law because of sin. Because Jesus took these matters on to Himself(the plan of salvation), He was able to restore our relationship with God. Hebrews 4: 16,
    therefore we can come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

    Yes, indeed, Jesus fulfilled the law and in fact magnified the law to open up its spiritual application, making it more comprehensive than the legalistic Pharisees ever imagined. AnneG, there are so many references to this(about the law) I cannot write it all down on this Public Catholic site. When Jesus spoke about the law in Matthew notice He spoke in the present tense…not the past. Jesus is very firm here: Matthew 5: 18, For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away(what do you think is going to happen in the end?), one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled(to the end of this age). In verse 19, Jesus is simply warning the people that if you are wilfully breaking the law, you will not be in the Kingdom. Jesus reiterates in Matthew 7: 21-23, Many on that day(Judgment day)will say to me, Lord, Lord! But what does Jesus say in verse 23? ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s law.’

    AnneG, the law was not made for the purposes of saving or justifying. It was made to show us our need of cleansing and to point us to the great source of cleansing…Jesus Christ our Lord. Ephesians 2: 8, 9; “For by grace you are saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    Law and grace do not work in competition with each other but in perfect cooperation. The law points out sin and grace saves from sin. The law is the will of God. We do not obey the law in order to be saved but because we are saved.

    Obedience is the real test of love. What do I mean? Someone might object that this is making works the basis of entering the kingdom. No. “Faith without works is dead, James 2: 20. It is really making love the qualifying factor. Jesus said that the greatest commandment of all is to love God supremely. He also said, “if you love me, keep my commandments,” John 14: 15. So, it is the lack of love within people that shuts them out…not the act of disobedience that exposes that lack. Only when love is motivating the obedience does it become acceptable to God. Any other work is man’s vain attempt to earn salvation(which he can’t do) and to deny the efficacy of Christ’s atoning sacrifice.

    Yes, Jesus did it all. Jesus not only did not abolish the law, but He greatly magnified it. In fact, He demonstrated that its binding claims could never be voided. In the same sense, God would not and could not abolish the law to save even His beloved Son. It cost something to uphold the law and pay the maximum penalty. How? By applying the law to Himself! By substituting himself in our place and being nailed to a cross which WE deserved. God took it upon Himself to save us because we couldn’t. He took responsibility for His own creation in that He wanted to save us from eternal death.
    But how thankful we should be that His love was as perfect as His justice. In His own body He bore the penalty, satisfied the law, and justified the transgressor. What an AWESOME display of love He demonstrated.

  34. If I may interject, Cooba, what is your point? I don’t meant that in a dismissive way. I truly do not get what you are trying to prove.

  35. Wasn’t Jesus about teaching? He showed us how to do it. Jesus was in line with His Father, always. Jesus never deviated… He was the anointed One, right?

    Your Institution was never fully honest about the moral law of God and neither were most of the Protestants after following suit.

    The moral law of God is His will! Your Catechism?

    The Convert’s Catechism of the Catholic Doctrine:

    Q. Which is the Sabbath day?
    A. Saturday

    Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
    A. We observe Sunday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.

    No one has authority to change that eternal law but Daniel 7: 25 lets us know; He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High(what happened during the Dark Ages?), And shall intend to change times and law. The Sabbath is a time…a holy convocation, a gathering(i.e. worship services). Leviticus 23: 3, Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings. It is also part of the law. God gives more detail of His Sabbath in Leviticus 23: 32, It shall be to you a sabbath of solemn rest, and you shall afflict your souls; on the ninth day of the month at evening, from evening to evening, you shall celebrate your sabbath.” There it is…God did not give the details as part of His law but gave more of it later on.”Times” in Daniel 7: 25 is plural. I do not know what the other is…yet.

    The Catholic Church freely admitted this. And so, it became a tradition in the Catholic Church. The words of Jesus apply here when He addressed the Pharisees and some of the scribes. He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition,” Mark 7: 8. You’ll have to read Mark 7 to understand. Jesus quotes Isaiah’s prophecy about Himself.

    Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol 4, Pg. 153: The church after changing the day of rest from the Sabbath or Seventh-day of the week to the first, made the fourth commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord’s day. Of course, Emperor Constantine greatly helped out since it is well known that the Romans hated the Jews. Even though the Romans adopted the Christian faith, at the same time they wanted to separate from them. It was more political than anything else. In a nut shell, Emperor Constantine was really a sun worshiper.

    Millions of modern church members regard Sunday as a sacred day which memorializes the resurrection of Christ. It is certainly true that Christ arose on the first day of the week, but nowhere in the Bible are we commanded to keep that day holy. Events such as the crucifixion and resurrection should mean much to every Christian, but not one intimation is given in the Bible for observing either Friday or Sunday. The only day ever commanded for weekly worship is the seventh day of the week – the same Sabbath Jesus kept during creation week and the one He will keep with His people throughout all eternity, Isaiah 66: 22, 23. If you read it carefully it says, “All” flesh not all Jews.

    Jesus never commanded the observance of His resurrection in order that it might become a New Covenant requirement. Show me where in His word? There is nothing that indicates a religious day of observance in the New Testament. God’s day will always BE Saturday. Revelation 1: 10 does not indicate a religious day of observance. The Catholic Church never had the authority to change that law. I can name 10 deviations in the Roman Catholic faith but I won’t do that. However, when people read their Bibles and listen to people who know what they are talking about, can you see why so many left the Catholic Church? From the pope on down…this scares them.

    Friend, the truth is church membership will not save you. Really think about that for a moment. Read Matthew 7: 21-27 and you will understand. Verse 23 speaks about lawlessness…meaning wilfully breaking God’s law. That’s what that means.

    You don’t need me anymore. You can go to landmarksofprophecy.com. You will learn there. Go ahead and eat and drink Jesus’ word there. I have no doubt whatsoever that you will be blessed. I have no doubt.

  36. Cooba, I think I’m going to cut this off. I don’t allow this forum to be used to sow dissension between and among Christians.

  37. No. I don’t know what the Converts Catechism” is.
    The Catechism of the Catholic Church paragraphs 2168 to 2176 deals with the Sabbath observance of the old covenant and the fulfillment by Jesus, the New Creation.
    You’ve gone way off topic with a lot of anti-Catholic stuff. I will defer to Rebecca.