Faith Matters

For this week's episode, we spoke with Brooke Romney, a guest that had been recommended to us over and over — and we were so happy we were able to connect with her. Brooke is a writer who began her career on Capitol Hill and whose work has appeared in many publications, including in the Washington Post. She now spends much of her time writing and speaking, particularly on the subject of parenting, but also on social media, connection, and faith. In 2021, she published 52 Modern Manners for Today’s Teens , which reached #1 on Amazon’s bestselling Parenting books list, and climbed as high as #29 in its entire catalog of 38 million books. She’s also published I Like Me Anyway: Embracing Imperfection, Connection & Christ. In our conversation with Brooke, we did talk a lot about parenting, but so many of the principles were broadly applicable. Specifically, we spent time on creating connection with all the people around us, including our children — we talked about some of the habits that are so easy to slip into that can be disconnecting and simple things we may not have thought of that can create moments of connection. We also talked about “living from our values,” and being willing to be misunderstood and receive feedback when we’re doing so — as Brooke says, listening to other perspectives, even if it’s difficult, is how we get better. We were so grateful Brooke took the time to come on the podcast, and we really think you’re going to enjoy hearing from her. To follow Brooke and her work, you can head to her website at brookeromney.com and find her books on Amazon. She’s also on Instagram at @brookeromneywrites

For today’s episode, we were honored as always to bring back one of our favorite people and conversation partners, and likely one of yours: Terryl Givens. We spoke with Terryl about a book he released in 2021, a biography called Stretching the Heavens: The Life of Eugene England and the Crisis of Modern Mormonism. Terryl’s work on this biography led to a fascinating portrait of a man many of us look up to, and someone we truly wish we could have met (England died in 2001 at the age of 68). His legacy has proven to be both broad and enduring — in addition to a long and storied career in academia, he was a founder of Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought and of the Association for Mormon Letters. His writing continues to move and inspire Latter-day Saints today, including through essays that have become classics like Why the Church is as True as the Gospel. In our interview with Terryl, we talked not just about the arc of Eugene England’s life, but about the principles that arose from the insights he shared and some of the struggles he faced. In particular, we talked through some of the issues that came up for him as a man striving to be both true to his own conscience and to the authority of an institution he fully believed in and loved, when the two didn’t fully align. In many ways, this seems to be the conflict at the heart of discipleship and even of Christianity’s creation story. Regardless, we felt like exploring it through the lens of Eugene England’s life was both relevant and poignant. This book, Stretching the Heavens , was published by UNC Press and is available on Amazon and Audible.

This week’s episode is with an incredible Latter-day Saint poet, Darlene Young. Darlene has just released a new book of poetry, called Here , and published by BCC Press. It’s an honest, vulnerable, relatable, and incredibly approachable book that we laughed and cried our way through. In our conversation with Darlene, she talked about the value of poetry itself — how it can be a “dance” to prose’s “walk,” and help us to see life as “more abundant,” and show the moments we might see as mundane in a more poignant and meaningful light. Darlene also reminded us that in order for art to really affect us, it has to tell the truth — telling the truth is the beginning of healing, and we’ve rarely encountered Latter-day Saint poetry that does this as well as Darlene’s. And, knowing that we’re releasing this episode Mother’s Day weekend, we also talked with Darlene about her poetry that speaks to the struggles and beauties of motherhood, parenting and the bittersweetness of it all. Her poetry really does have a way of giving life to feelings that for many of us, may have previously been somewhat indescribable. In the end, it seemed like “bittersweet” is the word that we kept coming back to when we talked with Darlene and encountered her work. It doesn’t shy away from the difficult, the annoying, or the tedious aspects of our lives — but in a really beautiful way, as faith at its best does, it paints them as part of a fuller picture of beauty and purpose. Darlene received her BA and MFA from BYU, and has taught English and Writing as adjunct faculty there. If you want to pick up Darlene’s book, again, it’s called Here and published by BCC Press and you can pick it up on Amazon.

For this week’s episode, we’re bringing you a conversation with Jason Whiting, a Professor and Program Director in the Marriage and Family Therapy program at Brigham Young University. ​Jason received his PhD from Michigan State University, and is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist. He’s also the author of Love Me True: Overcoming the Surprising Ways We Deceive in Relationships. Jason’s primary research centers around the love lives of couples, and it was fascinating, as a married couple ourselves, to have a marriage and family therapist on the podcast. We found Jason to be extremely personable, insightful, and fun to talk with. We were able to ask him several questions that have come up in our marriage, as well as some that we’ve heard from others. Some of our favorite topics of discussion included the Gottman Ratio (the famous research that has been done showing that healthy and lasting relationships often have at least 5 positive interactions for every one negative one), some of his favorite marriage advice, how to have conflict in a healthy way, and what are some signs that he sees commonly in marriages that last.

We’ve been really excited to share this week's interview with you. Our guest was Astrid Tuminez, President of Utah Valley University. Astrid is an absolute delight to talk with and listen to. She’s full of stories, humor, and deep insights that made our time with her pass way too quickly. This interview actually came about because Astrid wrote an essay in Melissa Inouye and Kate Holbrook’s new book Every Needful Thing. We loved Astrid’s essay and knew we wanted to get to know her better. Astrid has an absolutely fascinating and unique story. She grew up in the slums of the Philippines, but along with her siblings, was discovered to have an exceedingly bright intellect and was offered a free place at one of the most prestigious and expensive Catholic schools in the area. As a child, she was, religiously, a Catholic, but felt that she was always brimming with questions that were being hushed. When she eventually met the Latter-day Saint missionaries, it was a different experience — they gave her a new framework to think about the world, and weren’t afraid to at least try to answer her questions. Astrid’s pursuit of education eventually took her to the United States, where she graduated summa cum laude with a bachelor's degree in international relations and Russian literature from Brigham Young University. She later earned a master's degree from Harvard University in Soviet Studies and a Ph.D. from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in political science. Before becoming President of UVU, Astrid spent many years in leadership in the corporate, non-profit, and academic worlds. What we maybe loved most about Astrid was that her unique perspectives make the world of faith and intellect seem expansive, exciting, and adventurous — even full of mystery. She’s found spiritual insight and even practice well outside of Mormonism while simultaneously keeping that “fixed foot” in the Restored Gospel. In a real way, she’s living Joseph Smith’s injunction to “receive truth, let it come from whence it may.”

We’re super excited to share this week’s episode with you. Our interview was with Dan McClellan, a Bible scholar who began sharing his insights and scholarship on TikTok in 2021, and immediately began racking up millions of views and hundreds of thousands of followers. One of the reasons people seem to resonate with Dan’s content is that he makes traditionally difficult and obscure topics extremely accessible — if you watch any of his videos, you’ll see what we mean, but even those who are pretty unfamiliar with the worlds of the Old or New Testaments will be able to immediately gain helpful and fascinating new understanding from Dan’s videos. In our interview, Dan shares a bit of story about how he got started, including that one of the reasons he began sharing content on social media was that he saw that people would use outdated or incorrect assumptions about the Bible, or the interpretation of scripture generally, to justify power dynamics that placed themselves at the top. Dan believes that scripture should never be weaponized — and that good scholarship can help us understand how to use scripture in a healthier way. For those that wonder why we might want to learn the details of the Bible if we primarily want to engage it devotionally, Dan gives an intriguing answer — the more we learn, the more foreign we’ll realize the Bible is, and the more uncomfortable we’ll become. And the more uncomfortable we are, the more we’re forced to grapple with problems and contradictions — something we’ve found can be a truly meaningful struggle that takes one “further up and further in” to a life of deep faith. Dan received his bachelor’s degree from BYU in ancient Near Eastern studies, then received a masters in Jewish studies at the University of Oxford, a masters in biblical studies in 2013, and a PhD in religion and religious studies from the University of Exeter. From 2013 to 2023, Dan worked as a scripture translation supervisor for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Salt Lake City, before leaving to focus on creating more original audio and video content. You can find Dan’s TikTok channel at @maklelan, or check out his brand new podcast, Data over Dogma , on all the major podcast platforms.

In June 2015, a white supremacist entered the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church and murdered 9 members of the church during a Bible study. During the first court hearing, a number of family members of victims said that they forgave the murderer, Dylann Roof. This act of forgiveness shocked many people. Some people were shocked by witnessing such an act of Christian charity. Others were shocked because they thought expressing forgiveness for such an act, especially so quickly, was wrong, and was only perpetuating the violence on the community under attack. In his new book, Forgiveness: An Alternative Account , Harvard minister Matthew Potts draws upon this event and others to explore the deep complexity and transformative power of forgiveness. As he shares in today’s conversation with Zach Davis, forgiveness is less about settling debts of harm and more about learning to move forward in new life, even if our wounds never fully heal. Matthew Potts is the lead minister at Harvard University’s Memorial Church and the Plummer Professor of Christian Morals at Harvard Divinity School. His research and teaching focuses on sacramental and moral theology, religion and literature, and preaching. He is the author of two books, Cormac McCarthy and the Signs of Sacrament and Forgiveness: An Alternative Account. He is also co-host of the podcast "Harry Potter and the Sacred Text".

For today’s episode, we thought we’d bring you a really special story that we think we can all learn from, especially during this Easter season as we ponder concepts like redemption and new life. Our guest was Dave Durocher, the Executive Director of The Other Side Academy in Salt Lake City. If you’re an especially up-to-date listener, or you went to Restore last year, you’ve heard a little bit about The Other Side’s story from Joseph Grenny, Dave’s partner and the Academy’s Chairman. But with Dave, you’ll get to hear about “the other side” of The Other Side. By the time he was 38, Dave had been to prison four times for a total of 15 years. Not long after his release, Dave was arrested again and facing a 29-year prison sentence — but there was one last chance to turn his life around. We’ll let Dave tell the rest of the story, but we can tell you that it’s just as wild and inspiring as you are imagining. Dave’s story seems to teach us that while we like to tell dramatic stories of conversion and change, the reality is that there are many lives in which God seems to be doing slow, patient, redemptive work. The manner in which it happens and the timeline it’s on can be as surprising as Jesus’s resurrection was to his disciples; the journey can be excruciating, but as Terryl and Fiona Givens are so quick to point out — God never seems to give up on anyone. It’s clear that Dave is now doing exactly what he was meant to do all along — and there may have been no other way to get there. Also, quick note about this episode- there's actually a little bit of swearing. So if you are sensitive to that or have little ears who may be listening with you, we just want to make sure you have a heads up.

This week we’re bringing you a conversation with Rachel Rueckert, a really amazing young writer who recently published a memoir called East Winds: A Global Quest to Reckon with Marriage. Rachel’s story is a fascinating one. Perhaps due to a highly tumultuous home life as a child, she inherited her suspicions about marriage early. Growing up in the Church, there was a constant drumbeat about marriage and eternal families, but those lessons always seemed to raise more questions for her than they did answers. Eventually, Rachel met her husband-to-be, Austin, and soon found herself on the adventure of a lifetime — a year-long backpacking trip on a shoestring budget that would serve as a honeymoon and bring her face to face with marriage in its stark reality. In between an escape from rabid dogs in the Amazon, accidentally stumbling upon democracy protests in Hong Kong, and a 500-mile trek through Spain in sandals, Rachel found a way to finally confront her deepest questions. This book is the incredibly insightful and beautifully written result, and we feel lucky to have, in a sense, gone in this journey with her. In our conversation with Rachel, we were able to explore her “quest to reckon with marriage” as well as some other fascinating themes in the book: how does one learn to trust their intuition, or recognize the Spirit? How should life’s biggest decisions get made? And at Church in any community, how can we truly practice being brothers and sisters when we all have such different perspectives? We’re so excited to share this conversation with you, and are confident in saying that you really need to pick up Rachel’s book. It was published by BCC Press, and is available online at Amazon or Barnes and Noble.

When BYU professor Eric Huntsman was growing up, he spent time among Catholics in Pittsburgh and Baptists in Alabama and came to love the different ways other Christian denominations worshiped Jesus. And one of his favorite ways that other Christians worshiped was during Holy Week, the week leading up to Easter Sunday. Over the years, Eric began incorporating many Holy Week traditions into his spiritual practice and found it helped him connect more deeply with the Savior and his atoning sacrifice. To help other Latter-day Saints who may be interested in learning more about Holy Week and developing ways of celebrating it, Eric, along with co-author Trevan Hatch, has recently published a book called Greater Love Hath No Man: A Latter-day Saint Guide to Celebrating the Easter Season. In today’s conversation, Zach Davis spoke with Eric about his journey as a disciple and scholar of Jesus, what traditional Holy Week commemoration looks like, and how Easter is a time when we can connect with our fellow Christian brothers and sisters. Eric Huntsman is a professor of Ancient Scripture at BYU. In April of 2023, Eric began a two and a half year appointment of the BYU Jerusalem Studies Program, from where he joined us for this conversation. After initially researching Roman history, Eric’s scholarly efforts have focused on the life and ministry of Jesus in the New Testament Gospels, especially the Gospel of John.

This week we’re sharing with you one of the most popular presentations from our Restore gathering that happened last October — a talk by Joseph Grenny called “The Other Side.” As a young father, Joseph was determined to have the perfect family. All of kids would be active, go on missions, go to BYU and be stalwart. But that dream was shattered when two of his sons got involved in drugs and crime. Eventually, one son overdosed and almost lost his life. As a result of that grief and helplessness, Joseph began a spiritual journey that transformed his understanding of God, the atonement and the path to peace. He eventually felt called to put these principles into action by creating a school for former felons seeking to transform their lives. Called The Other Side Academy , it is a remarkable organization and community located in downtown Salt Lake City that provides miraculous and life-changing hope and healing. This was an absolute highlight for us at Restore and we’re so happy to share it with you. If you’d like to see Joseph’s presentation visually which is probably what we’d recommend since his slides are so compelling, you can head to the Faith Matters website or YouTube channel. Joseph Grenny is a New York Times bestselling author of eight books, including the leadership and communication classic Crucial Conversations. He is a co-founder of Unitus Labs, an international nonprofit that has helped over 15 million of the world’s poorest to move toward self-reliance. And in 2015 he and his colleagues started The Other Side Academy, a 2 and a half year school for those with long histories of crime, addiction and homelessness.

For this week's episode, we brought on Carl Youngblood for a truly enlightening conversation we’ve been wanting to have for a long time. Carl has spent most of his life helping to build and operate technology companies and has done a lot of deep thinking and writing about how technology is shaping our reality and our future—including how it will affect what it means to be human. Digital technology companies, including behemoths like Facebook, are staking their futures on pushing the boundaries of virtual reality and artificial intelligence. Their project is to create a new reality for human beings—what has come to be called the "metaverse." We brought Carl on to talk about what all this means. What are the implications for our families and institutions? What are the implications for our faith? How might the theology of the Restored Gospel inform how we move into this new reality? And what about technologies that may offer the possibility to dramatically extend our lifespans? What does a faith that honors the centrality of God’s creation and that honors death as an essential part of a foreordained plan have to say? These are huge and sobering questions, but they’re also exciting to explore. Bill Turnbull, one of the founders of Faith Matters, also joined us for this conversation. Carl is a co-founder of the Mormon Transhumanist Association, an organization founded to consider the intersection between our faith and the frontiers of technology. The MTA is hosting a conference in Provo this spring, on Saturday, March 19, at which nationally-recognized experts on things like blockchain, crypto and Web 3 will address the implications of these technologies for our society and, by extension, for our faith. Registration info for this conference can be at the end of the episode. Faith Matters has no affiliation with MTA and offers no opinion on their approach, but we acknowledge their efforts in addressing some of the biggest questions of our day.