The ‘Gay-Muslim’ Phenomenon – Why Islam Considers Homosexuality a Sin

Altmuslim published two viewpoints on homosexuality in Islam and thoughts about equality in marriage, which is being debated by the Supreme Court. The first, which argues that homosexuality and marriage for homosexuals should be accepted in Islam, is from Pamela Taylor. The second, which argues that homosexuality is a sin in Islam, is from Gareth Bryant.

By Gareth Bryant

(Author’s Note: This post is written as a result of a website that had been displayed on my Facebook timeline, called “gaymuslims.org.” I decided to take a look at what the site was about. Usually, most Muslims, particularly Muslim men, consider this topic of discussion in and of itself “dangerous ground.” But, for those who know me, I live kind of dangerously anyway.)

I recently checked out a website called “gaymuslim.org,” and what I found was actually better than I had thought initially. I will share my opinions on this site; as well what I perceive is the general motive of the site. It’s quite obvious that homosexuality is a big deal and hotly debated topic in Islam. And, this issue is also a very touchy subject as well. But, in our modern-age, we as a Muslim community, whether locally, nationally or even globally, must address this issue full throttle.

There has to be some way that we can communicate with this particular demographic, in order to reach out to them and call them to Islam. They deserve to be informed of the guidance of Islam, just as much as any other group. However, our approach must be very tactful and wise, but also uncompromising.

Where Does Islam Stand on Homosexuality?

As Muslims, we must speak with people, who may be homosexual in a way that does not make us seem like we’re constantly condemning them, for their lifestyle choice/sexual preference. Realistically, homosexuality was just as much of an issue during the lifetimes of the Prophets Lot and Muhammad (peace be upon them) as it is now. We all know of the people of Lot, who were the first persons in human history to be homosexuals. In pre-Islamic Arabia, homosexuality was so common among the Arabs that Muhammad specifically said, “Don’t allow men who imitate women and women who imitate men into your houses. (al-Bukhari, al-Kaba’ir/the Major-Sins by Muhammad ibn-`Uthman adh-Dhahabi)”

But, this has never been the initial issue that Allah had commanded upon Lot nor Muhammad, for that matter (peace be upon them), to address their people. In fact, the very first thing that Allah had ever commanded the Prophets (peace be upon them all-together) to call people to is tawhid/Islamic monotheism (the recognition and acceptance that Allah exists and is the only one who is worship-worthy). In the Quran, it clearly mentions that the first thing Lot was commanded to tell his people was to stop worshipping idols and to start worshipping Allah(Noble Quran 26:161-163).

When I refer to being uncompromising in how we approach homosexuality, this means that even though Muslims definitely want others to embrace Islam regardless of their respective lifestyle choices/sexual preferences, it must be made very clear that this in no way, shape or form an acceptable lifestyle choice/sexual preference. There are, in fact, two main things the Muslim community must make sure doesn’t happen: One, we cannot allow ourselves to be pigeon-holed in the public eye as being people whom are not welcoming to all members of society to accept Islam.

In other words, we have to be sure that the Muslim community ensures people that the guidance of Allah in Islam is for everyone. Just  as Allah says in the Quran by describing the Quran itself as guidance for humanity (Noble Quran 2:185). We should not imitate the Jews, who do not call people to Judaism because they believe their faith is just for them. We must also present Islam as it is and not water it down. Take, for example, Christianity — historically, as well as contemporarily, Christians have watered down their own religion to increase in numbers, disregarding their own religious standards in order to be a popular religion.

Two, we must be honest with people and inform them of what is right and wrong, according to Islamic law and principles, not according to what our egos and desires tell us what is right and wrong.

It needs to be established that according to Islamic law, homosexuality is indeed a sin. At no time are we as a Muslim community to allow people to assume that Muslims legitimize homosexuality as something normal, natural or a valid lifestyle choice/sexual preference. We must not allow ourselves — under the ambiguous and entrapping matrix of political correctness, openness moderation and modernity — to fog our own religious standards and allow people to think that homosexuality is a good thing.

Because, according to Islamic texts from both the Quran and Prophetic tradition, it is 100 percent completely unacceptable. Just like any other sexual deviation such as bestiality, child molestation, rape, adultery and fornication are all deemed prohibited and shameful in Islam, so is homosexuality (Qasas-ul-Anbiya’/Stories of the Prophets by ibn-Kathir, al-Kaba’ir).

We Must Strive to Be Free of All Sins

However, one of the many negative things we Muslims tend to do is place favoritism of certain sins over others, just like how Christians view homosexuality as an abomination, yet,  see no problem with worshipping Jesus Christ (peace be upon him), a created thing, in the same vein with Allah, the Creator of the Universe. Realistically, that is far worse than any sexual deviation.

In Islam, a sin is a sin, and we as humans don’t have the right to say, “Well … at least this sin is not worse than that sin.” Our objective as Muslims is to avoid sinning in its totality — not to just avoid major sins.

Is Homosexuality a Lifestyle Choice?

Now, referring to the “gaymuslims.org,” a site that advocates for the fair treatment of homosexual Muslims — I do commend their intentions and efforts to reach out to the homosexual community. However, there needs to be a definitive stance against the lifestyle choice itself, which I didn’t really see presented on this site.

I know why this was not highlighted on the site — to not ostracize anyone and to make them comfortable enough to open their minds and hearts to Islam. But, I view this as a potential opening of a floodgate, which could bring members of the homosexual community to Islam who believes that they don’t have to alter their lifestyle choices/sexual preferences.

This is very problematic, because again it has to be made crystal clear that this sexual preference is not natural, but rather a result of lack of exposure to divine guidance, taught and learned behavior and various emotional and/or psychological issues, which are imposed upon people. There’s a reason why the term lifestyle choice has the word “choice” in it and why the term sexual preference has the word “preference” in it — that’s because when it comes to having consensual sex with someone, it’s exclusively your own volition that guides your decisions to copulate with members of either the same gender or the opposite gender.

I know I’ll be getting a whole lot of both positive and negative feedback and comments about this post, which honestly, I gladly accept. Obviously, I’m no scholar, neither in a religious nor secular realm. But, I know just enough about Islamic sacred texts as well as secular issues to speak about this issue. For anyone who would like to comment, please, comment away.

Gareth Bryant, a native New Yorker, became Muslim at the age of 15. He has served as an executive member of Young Muslims USA and is the co-founder of Da’wah Unlimited Alliance (D.U.A.), a Brooklyn-based nonprofit organization committed to educating the general public about Islam and Muslims. Click here to learn more about Gareth and his writings.

About Dilshad Ali
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  • Eliaha

    I completely disagree with you & I think you are uneducated, unintelligent, insensitive, and superficial. I get it, you hate gay people (and gay Muslims) and you hate/disagree with marriage EQUALITY. I get it. I do. But, what your piece of “writing” lacks is how you are going “cure” these homosexuals of their “illness” or “disease” and “bring them onto the straight path.” And don’t tell me you don’t think homosexuality is an illness or a disease, because your writing clearly makes it so. Your strategy is flawed and unintelligent and ridiculous. [Condemn gays......condemn gays......Condemn gays....propose no solution to "cure" gays in the Muslim community according to Islamic teachings]

    • Hyde

      Ahh…he did not state that at all. This is what I mean! You simple can’t state your views on homosexuals without being labeled a homophobe. I am sure if he wrote a mellow piece on how homosexuals are awesome people or that their struggles could be understood, then he would be considered “intelligent”, “educated”, and “compassionate”, no doubt.

      It is comments like that of yourself that makes conservative Muslims not even approach the debate, since you are just looking for a way to have them agree with all your points. There is only one way and that is the liberal way.

  • Marco Ebrahim

    LMAO……I THOUGHT YOU WERE GAY BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT MARRIED. I thought your article was going to be in support of gay marriage/marriage equality……lol. Boy, was I wrong. I actually thought you were gay cause you weren’t married.

  • mojo

    If you think homosexuality is unnatural, you are ignorant and unobservant of the natural world. then again, i’d expect no less from someone who thinks dusty old books are holy law and whose prophet was a pedophile.

    • Hyde

      Ah, Mrs. Dishal Ali, do you want to hit this ?

  • Kieran black

    To a non-Muslim such as myself, you sound like some sort of an extremist. Reading your words I find myself becoming more frightened by continued Muslim immigration into my country. Islam appears from my perspective, and from what ive read to be the religion of intolerance.

    Do you agree that a person should be allowed to live their lifestyle however they choose, as long as it does not affect that of others? I do. I am not gay myself, but I could not care less if someone else is. Gay people do not make a choice to be gay, they are born that way. Who cares what some guy said 1400 years ago claiming to be speaking the words of god. If god wanted us to blindly follow the words of old books then why did he give us a brain to question.

    Do you really think that god would want people to go around attacking others that do not believe the same thing as they do, as Muslims all over the world do. I have two daughters and I will NEVER accept the kind of mysoginistic, homophobic, intolerant Muslim paradise that fanatical people like you agitate for.

    • Brother No. 201908732

      Kieran, I do not think you understood the objective of this post. You said “Who cares what some guy said 1400 years ago…” well, it should be the people who he is addressing. I thought it was quite clear that the author was directing his words to other Muslims as he said numerous times, “As Muslims, we must…”. Secondly, I thought it to be quite tolerant. I honestly think, you didn’t even bother reading the article. Nowhere does he say he hates gays, or thinks they should be punished. He is clarifying Islam’s stance on whether it is a sin or not and urging Muslims to be clear on this whether they act on it, or agree with it.
      But I love that you said “my country”. Unless your a Navajo or Apache Native American, then how the hell is it “your country”??

      • Hyde

        Nailed it! Awesome reply bro.

  • Kieran black

    To a non-Muslim such as myself, you sound like some sort of an extremist. Reading your words I find myself becoming more frightened by continued Muslim immigration into my country. Islam appears from my perspective, and from what ive read to be the religion of intolerance.

    Do you agree that a person should be allowed to live their lifestyle however they choose, as long as it does not affect that of others? I do. I am not gay myself, but I could not care less if someone else is. Gay people do not make a choice to be gay, they are born that way. Who cares what some guy said 1400 years ago claiming to be speaking the words of god. If god wanted us to blindly follow the words of old books then why did he give us a brain to question.

    Do you really think that god would want people to go around attacking others that do not believe the same thing as they do, as Muslims all over the world do. I have two daughters and I will NEVER accept the kind of mysoginistic, homophobic, intolerant Muslim paradise that fanatical people like you agitate for.

    • goolam

      By the same token, you will agree then that people should be able to live their Islamic ethos whether you agree with it or not. Prejudice is a right because people will always disagree about their outlook on life. What’s important for you to understand is that Muslims have different ideas, misconceptions and perspectives on homosexuality. This article is about how Muslims engage with these ideas from the perspective of the rules we govern our personal lives with. Whether you think you know the mind of God or not is not the issue. For us, it’s how do we understand the issue. The fact is that we follow a religion we are free to observe. There are many Christians and Jews who are vehemently anti-homosexuality. Their right to believe this is never brought into question. We actually subject our beliefs to the rigours of our religious creed, and want to understand the issue holistically.

      • Hyde

        Yup. (I am pretty sure islamophobes won’t have these comments on Pamela Taylor’s post)

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  • Taj Popoola

    Dilshad, if it were possible to get into my head and figure out my exact thoughts on this subject, you couldnt get closer than this. This is precisely how I view this issue. I asked myself what I will do if, Allah forbid, my child announces he/she is gay.My conclusion was: I obviously wont kill him/her but there’s no way I will support or endorse it–this comes at a time when lots of public figures are forced to endorse when some close family or friends announce their homosexuality.
    There is no ambiguity about Gods position on homosexuality–those who choose this option(homosexuality) should understand that.And while we cannot prevent just anyone from associating with Islam(indeed we welcome everyone), we muslims must never compromise on this issue and similar ones. Thats not an extreme way of thinking–the fact is we dont vote for God, so we dont get to decide what he wants us to do and what he doesnt.
    Islam has many peculiarities,and I cherish this–I have shortcomings, I have weaknesses and I have vices,but as a muslim, I’m always able to look in the mirror and say:Allah forgive me–this is wrong and over the years, I’ve won some of those battles with his mercy.What I wont do and shouldn’t is decide that those vices may be okay afterall simply because I cant give them up and I still manage to say my prayers regularly.
    Finally, we must remember, this is not a competition for quantity but quality. If the whole world wishes, let them go gay–muslims must stand firm and true–God help us all,amen.

    • Hyde

      Indeed amen to that brother Taj! I do
      not care if there are homosexuals down the street, but the thought of having
      children that are gay or even atheist is very disturbing. I know some brothers
      who don’t ever want to get married because of forlorn thoughts such as these.
      We do live in a world that is increasingly un Islamic and we are forced reconcile
      our deen with the increasingly progressive values we see everyday. I am not yet
      25, but feel my childhood was ages ago. Just hang in there, I suppose…

  • ..

    Salam,
    I think homosexuality is something that we, as Muslims, should talk about more often. We constantly shrug the matter of, and that I think is wrong just because I remember reading that homosexuality is something that people are born with. T o be honest, I’m not sure if that’s really true, but it makes a lot of sense to me because it might just be something that Allah (swt) has given people as a test. Idk, though, but can you talk more about the Quran’s stand point on whether or not homosexuality is something that people are born into. I remember watching this documentary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f80pNyoL6A (it’s in parts lol) and hearing people talk about how they didn’t want to be gay-it just happened.
    Again, thanks for talking about about such a taboo subject :)

  • http://www.abiggersociety.com Sulayman F

    I think you did a great job writing this piece, bro.

    I agree with you; unlike Christianity and Judaism, the rules against homosexual acts are quite explicit in Islam. There isn’t a lot of wiggle room in the matter given how clear it is spelled out in Quran, Sunnah, and hadith (but for comparison, just look at how many Christians and Jews try to devalue certain verses in their books and play up others to get a result they want).

    It’s kind of sad to see people here get into arguments over whether homosexuality is a choice or not. That’s just bad logic. I think that whole belief was created by Christian and Jewish leaders decades ago to fit the paradox “Well, God wouldn’t make someone born sinful, so it must be a choice.” Schizophrenia isn’t a choice either, but there aren’t religious debates over it.

    I know pious gay Muslims (who run the website you mentioned, Gareth). They find themselves attracted to people of the same sex and can’t control it any more than you or I have attraction to the opposite sex. The desire itself is not sinful, but we are instead judged based on our actions. As Shaykh Abdullah Adhami says; people with homosexual desires have a “painful trial.” The “gay” Muslims I spoke to feel they are being tested by God more than other people, by being given those desires and watched whether they will act on them or not. And as Muslims, we know God will never test someone more than he or she can handle.

    • Hyde

      That website is not run by Gay muslims! It is really good website that is run by traditional practicing brothers who offer a “compassionate” view on homosexuality.

  • atl0707

    I have a friend who is gay and Muslim and wants to kill himself because his religion tells him he’s going to burn in hell because he loves other men. Because seeing it any other way is in contradiction with the words of Allah (SWT), he sees no way out of his predicament and feels forced to choose between his sexual identity and Islam, a choice that seems impossible for him to make. The problem is that being gay is not a choice; it is an involuntary manifestation of a biological truism. It has been proven time and time again that gay men have a different brain structure and are aroused by the smell of gay men even when they can’t see them. Their sexuality is fundamental and unchangeable as is their capacity to love and be loved by other men and contribute productively to the ‘ummah when loved for who they are. But if others call their biological identity a choice and try to accept their interest in Islam but reject their hearts, many of them will lead unproductive, destructive lives far from the path of Allah (SWT). It is important that the ‘ummah open itself fully to gay believers and accept their love for others of the same sex, or they will be the last community to do so long after other great religions have accepted them without any expectation that they will somehow change.

    • Brother No. 201908732

      Finding patterns such as finding “different brain structures” is not unequivocal proof that homosexuality is from birth. Scientists from Germany have found the difference in brain structures in pedophiles yet despite agreeing with your logic, you would not say that it is their “biological identity”. Look, Islam is clear, homosexuality is a sin. Nowhere does it say, you will go to hell, Allah punishes who He wills, and forgives who He wills. I have met Muslims who drink alcohol despite it being forbidden, in both cases, I advise those people to continue to strengthen their other tenets of Islam, continue to search for answers and forgiveness through prayer. I commit sins as well, and I have no greater guarantee that I will go to heaven just bc I am straight, but I keep praying and asking Allah to forgive me for my sins.

    • Sameer Soleja

      Your friend sounds like he could really use some help. He really should find a kind (professional) ear to help him, such as a counselor or psychiatrist. But not someone who’s going to judge him, like some of the folks on this post.

    • Hyde

      Emotional soundings are not the solution.

  • atl0707

    Another thing to consider is that accepting gays into Islam but not their love of other men/women is like saying to someone, “It’s OK to be black, but you’d better go bleach that skin.” It’s useless, insulting and mean.

    • Brother No. 201908732

      You mean like how skin color is determined by melanocortin receptors- a protein that skin and hair pigment cells, melanocytes produce? So what cells, or protein receptors or anything are involved in the formation of homosexuality genes? I might have missed that day of my biology class…

      • http://www.bradleyfarless.com/ Brad F.

        Perhaps you should have attended class more regularly then.

        • Hyde

          Doesn’t matter because class curriculum changes every now and then. What was taboo yesterday is all the rage today.

          • Jack

            it changes because people are discovering new things and advancing the world while the muslim world sits arguing whether people are muslims or not or whether we should afford other human beings their human rights (and this coming from a muslim)

          • Jekyll

            It’s people like you who want to populate and liberalize this religion to a point of degeneracy and capsizing to the modernist approach. Modern science also states using protection you can theoretically have sex with your sister….hmmm…maybe the Muslim world should think about that, since there will be no harm in that ?
            (The Jews and Christians have liberalized their religion, so naturally the Muslims also ought to follow,’down the rabbit hole we all go’. As recently Dr. Winters (a victim of the gay lobby) stated: “In fact, it would be a worrying indictment of the legitimacy of the religion [Islam] if the modern world approved of us. We complain of negative stereotypes and hostility but in fact that’s always been the way of the believers against the uncomprehending outside world. That’s a sign of our legitimacy… Those religions that are approved of and patted on the head by secular, consumerist, capitalistic, modernity are by that very same token…a source of worry from the point of view of legitimate traditional perspective… So we should be proud that the modern world doesn’t like us, it’s a sign of authenticity.”)

          • Jack

            whats with you and sex with relatives ???!!!! you seem fixated with it for some reason and also you seem to try to put forward the idea that if not for islam or being “traditional” we would all be sleeping with our sisters … WHAT !!!! how do you support such ann argument in your head ? do atheists do this ? do other religions and more importantly cultures favor this ? no , absolutely not but this is simply you using the age old argument that morality stems from religon : that humans if left to their own devices would be sleeping with sisters to this day and age . Well you underestimate humans far too much and science also states that inbreeding leads to deformities and other debilitating genetic diseases (genetics thats another thing science brought ) effectively denying your claim that the advances of science and modernity in general lead to moral degeneracy (of course morality itself is subjective but thats another matter)

          • Jekyll

            Ah, there is the rub (no pun intended), that morality is subjective and runs with the ebb and flow of society. In your head, do you think we would be dicussing homosexulaity 20, 30 years ago ? No, because it would have never been an issue. I did not even know what “gay” meant until I went to college, because who ever thought we would be talking about it!

            Gotta hand it you about your petulant low blows, about trying to make me “write”, that if it was not for religion people would juts run off and start have sex with their relatives. Very mature and up right, eh cheeky fellow ?

            Iblis underestimated human beings, so naturally I don’t. My claim is not deregulate the flow of exoneration; i.e. the world is wrong and I am right syndrome.

          • Jack

            well i suppose you not backing that vue point is admirable since it seems to be everyone’s backup plan in a discussion. Also like it or not morality does change though there are the big things the “untouchables ” you could say like murder ,rape and other things and i actually wait for the day where being gay isnt discussed like it is now that it goes to the background of social issues and we start concentrating on what matters : poverty , suicide , drug abuse …. however i did mention that line thought since you kept comparing accepting gay people (which means we stop being so damn judgmental about their sexual orientation or what they do personally ) as accepting true sexual deviancy like inbreeding or some other creepy things.

          • Jekyll

            My good fellow, just because we are dicussing homosexulaity, does not mean that we ought not to concentrate on more pressing issues as that you have mentioned, yet as the West has wholheartdley accpected homosexulaity as a norm, WE and indeed I certainly do NOT.

            You may entertain the idea that homosexulaity is not part of the large sexual deviancy that is ramshackling the world, but I DO NOT. Indeed I never will.

          • IceAlex Gr

            And what do you guys say for the fact that Abraham/Ibrahim and his wife Sarah were half-siblings?

          • Jekyll

            Different sharia…how did Cain and Abel multiply either?

      • Jack

        its epigenetics genius google it

  • CFB

    “it has to be made crystal clear that this sexual preference is not natural”… Good thing you put that point at the end of your article; if it was at the beginning, I suspect you wouldn’t have to many readers bother to finish. Myself included.

  • Holly

    I have a question, what would you say about a lesbian couple, who doesn’t have sex. Are they still sinning in your opinion, if it is just the act?

    • Jekyll

      Technically speaking the act, yet what is in somebody’s heart is between them and their creator.

  • HM

    It has eluded me for many years, this position of Islam on homosexuality.

    To my knowledge, nowhere in either Qor’an or Sahih hadith, is explicitly said, or even implied, that homosexuality, when defined only as “same-sex attraction”, is unnatural, immoral, or that it’s some sort of a disease or illness. It has been shown by certain scientific studies, as someone above commented, that gay persons (let me use the term gay for those having same-sex attractions), have not only psycological, but also phsyiological differences, when compared do straight people.

    Gay, lesbian, and bisexual people, in a way that they have same-sex attractions, are, to my knowledge, no less “normal” than straight people. I know not, as I’ve stated previously, of any valid argument that same-sex attractions are some sort of an illness.

    Of course, Allah forbids intercourse between members of the same sex, and this is where another flaw your post lies. You haven’t actually answered why having intercourse between members of the same sex is forbidden? The answer? The answer, of course, is a complicated one and unsutable for some short post. But it doesn’t even matter now, does it? Allah does what he wants, and is not obliged to explain himself. But, the answer exists, and those who would search for it, would find it. And I believe not that it’s because such acts are “unnatural”. What is natural after all? I’ve seen dogs doing such things, not to mention that it’s not an uncommon occurence within the “natural world of animals”.

    Whether something is “natural” or “unnatural” is not necessarily the reason that something is allowed od disallowed.

    But, there is so much more to be said about this than my short post can address. Perhaps later then.

    • Hyde

      Way to think outside the box…NOT!

  • Jasmin

    I believe that there are people who are born as homosexuals, but also believe that more of those who are from certain socio-cultural reasons become homosexuals.
    But assuming that homosexuality is in the genes, so what?
    Some have in the genes aggressiveness, some laziness – not to work, some is not sociable , … etc..
    Shall we therefore aggressiveness, shyness, antisocial behavior, etc recognize as an acceptable standard of behavior.
    Of course not. Homosexuals admit all human rights, I am against discrimination, but one thing is the human rights and others are ideologies and social preferencies . Gay as a man have/should have all human rights but that does not mean that homosexuality has the right to be recognized as normal.

    • Hyde

      Yup…common sense is are these days…but read it here…what you must elaborate on those human rights ?

    • Jack

      why not just google it and see the link found in biology and homosexuality the current theory is its about epigenetics it is the coding that occures in the womb and affects how genes are expressed so it might not be genetic as in heritable but it is so far beyond a choice or social pressure or some nonsence in fact you are born that way much like you love women some love men and u cant explain why u are attracted to women it certainly isnt social or anything u “”””just are”””

      • Jekyll

        What about the genetics of pedophilia ? Can’t some people be naturally disposed to that ?

        • Jack

          are you serious ? pedophilia is linked in many cases to abuse during childhood and it is in fact a psychiatric disorder (gayness is not ) its not something you inherit since no studies have shown that it runs families and even if that were true , there is no consent (there can never be consent between a minor and an adult ) between them then it is a form of rape which gayness is most definitely not so how is it you mentioned it as a counter example ???

          • Jekyll

            Homosexuality was considered a disorder in the past, but as science decided to be “non-empirical”, it is not today. And homosexuality could also be linked to childhood trauma as well.
            “Counter example”…do you think, old fellow that I am running some sort of campaign to give examples? That is sad if you think that. That somehow if I give you proof homosexuals would re-reorient themselves…

          • Jack

            holly crap thats the gist of it ?? you have a problem with science huh ? you’d love it if gayness was still considered a disorder right ? well there is a reason that it is no longer such and its not science decided to be “non-empirical” what a ludicrous statement http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_mental_health.html “Even within medicine and psychiatry, however, homosexuality was not universally viewed as a pathology.
            Richard von Krafft-Ebing described it as a degenerative sickness in his Psychopathia Sexualis,

            but Sigmund Freud and Havelock Ellis both adopted more accepting
            stances.
            Early in the twentieth century, Ellis (1901) argued that homosexuality
            was inborn and therefore not immoral, that it was not a disease, and
            that many homosexuals made outstanding contributions to society” and for your clear misunderstanding of what my use of “counter exemple” here : “Counterexample is an example that is used to disprove a statement ” which you tried and failed i dont know where you got the whole ‘i think you’re running a campaign” from but hey what ever floats your boat .

          • Jekyll

            Science ? Dear confused boy, my background is mathematics and physics. Freud also stated the Oedipus Complex. Why are you so pensive to cherry pick authors of the past to establish your exoneration ?

            Again you stoop to attack me by saying that homosexuals have not made contributions to society; of course they have (Tchaikovsky and Turing suddenly comes to mind). But with the onslaught of the homosexual agenda, they would be probably overturning in their graves!

            “You have disproved me ? Well cheerio chap, now satiate in your victory and be happy that you STILL have not countered the premise of “legalising” sodomy in Islam.

          • ThisIsTheEnd

            You can believe whatever you want about homosexuals. So long as you don’t get to legislate your bigotry on other people then it isn’t problem.

          • Jekyll

            Oh nice one. I am a bigot and homophobe. Really nice one. Enjoy your liberal fantasy land for as long as you like; people like us are disappearing fast enough.

          • ThisIsTheEnd

            Not soon enough my friend, not soon enough

          • Jekyll

            Oh indeed we are going good fellow. Faster than you can count. We are already being shifted to move along the shadows. Then they are of us who often do not say anything but mean, what we say all the same.
            But hey religion itself is coming to end, so will all of it’s stupid traditions and bloody sheikhs and imams. The future belongs to you, make no mistake about it. The world will be yours soon enough on a silver platter.
            Ironically both right wingers and the left wingers come from the same base, that the past was wrong, the present is dubious but the future will be ours. As someone who does not belong to either camp, I say kudos to you both, as we certainly do not belong in the future; it is all yours.

          • ThisIsTheEnd

            Like the past was a Golden Age. State sanctioned slavery, genocides, empires, socially acceptable racism, sexism, and homophobia. Ignorance and superstition. You’re welcome to it. As to the future I’m well aware that a meteor strike, climate change, a runaway economy and a thousand other unknown variables could plunge humanity back into the Dark Ages (which I’m sure you’d love). So no I don’t think that progress marches on inexorably. But you’re right: social progress and civil liberties are forged one gravestone at a time.

          • Jekyll

            Oh dear I sincerely apologize for all those things. I mean I don’t remember being there, but you seem to accuse me,
            so I guess it must be so. I also like to offer my apologies for nuclear families, treating women with respect and dignity, treating elders with sympathy and reference, contemplating on philosophy, writing actual works of great literature, founding ideas and syllogisms, sound family structure, having communal obligations and responsibilities, treating women like women and treating men like men, offering exclusive indemnities to “people of eccentricities” and
            on and on.

            Yes I would love to live in the dark ages, but in Cordoba not south of England, but like Islam, perhaps it just an idea as you may say?

          • ThisIsTheEnd

            It was literally 3 hours ago that you lamented liberals disparaging of the past and now you’re clutching your pearls because I criticize the romanticising of the past. At least try and pretend that you’re following your own arguments.

            Nuclear families are a relatively recent development, besides I thought Islam was ok with polygamy? Sure there were good things in the past but there’s also good things now. And there were bad things in the past same as now. That’s what I’m pulling you up for; the rose tinted view of history.

            Cordoba, was that part of the caliphate? That great political union that collapsed through political infighting and outside aggression. Muslims pining for the resurrection of the caliphate are like Italians pining for the Roman Empire.

            And yes Islam is just an idea.

          • Jekyll

            Oh if you can cherry pick the lamentations of the past, so did I with adulations ? When did I say that everything in the past was so glorious and everything in the modern world is so awful ? My arguments…what that liberals or morainic conservatives is their business, and I am no lover of the great lost Islamic caliphate, that had it’s murderous campaigns and aggressions as you kindly pointed out. I was just stating the Dark Ages for Europe were not necessarily the dark ages for everybody else. Though the Caliphate did keep check on many things, even when it was floundering and blundering.
            Did not the Italians opine for the resurrection of the Roman Empire not too long ago ?

            Islam is an idea, well technically speaking so are you and me! We are all bloody ideas, right ?

          • ThisIsTheEnd

            I’m not going over your comment about the past as I’m starting to form the impression that coherency isn’t high on your list.

            Yeah Italians did pine for the Roman Empire. It didn’t work out for them too well.

            We are not ideas. Islam, like all religions, is just an idea. But it’s an idea that 1 billion people take seriously. I’m not one of those people but I’ve got nothing against the religious (religion is a different matter). If someone is stupid or bigoted (but I repeat myself) then I don’t blame their religion, I blame them.

          • Jekyll

            Well I comment on comment by basis and no it does not mean I put on a different helmet every time. If someone were to say homoexuals should be burned alive to cure thier homosexulaity, I think my repsosne would be that of every sane person, NO! Yet if someone…well you know.

            Anyway I usually do not get into too much debate with non-muslims for various reasons, but I admire your idea of having nothing against the “religious” yet also not accusing their religion for their misgivings. That is an understanding. that most, if not all people do not have on Islam. If someone is homophobic, misogynist, “jihadist”, it usually assigned that their religion, and more so Muhammad be in the discourse.
            Peace.

          • ThisIsTheEnd

            And peace to you mate

          • Jack

            there is nothing to legalize just as there is no permit to being heterosexual neither is there one for being gay you are just born that way , and you cannot be judged for things you have no choice over , period .

    • IceAlex Gr

      Shyness is not acceptable as well?!? Wow I am doomed…

  • Disturbed

    What an insensitive post that lacks any scientific evidence on the issue or even intelligent interpretation of Islamic teachings!

    Okay, I was born a Muslim. I am 29 years-old and have felt attracted to the same sex ever SINCE I was a child! Meaning from 5 or 6 years-old I knew I was different.

    Now do you understand, comprehend, sympathize, or even know what it is like to be perscuted, ridiculed, hated, murdered, shunned for who you are? The silence, the self-hatred, the crying yourself to sleep and praying for Allah to change you? Wishing you were dead to end all the pain? Having to pretend to be someone you are not? Having to live a life and knowing that you can never tell your parents or other members of your family who you truly are because they are so homophobic and hateful because of their religion?

    People who think as you do, whether they are Muslim, Christian, or Jew disgust me to the fullest!

    To people like me who actually struggle with our sexuality and at the same time struggle to understand why people hate us so much it is a slap in the face!

    Do you honestly think that someone would wake up one day and ask for all this? That people enjoy pain, suffering,social isolation? NO!!!!

    Do you know how many friends I have, who are contemplating suicide because they are gay and Muslim?

    Honestly, I do not want a religion or a group of people so hateful to dictate my life any longer!

    You sir, need to be better informed and get to know a few gay people, talk to them, ask about their experiences, and see why they “choose” to be the way they are instead of coming on here and writing about something that you have no idea about!

    The scary thing is most religious people who are homophobic have never met a gay person and they completely write them off!

    NOW THAT SICK!

    • http://twitter.com/GlassCookie ɢαy vαɴ вυяєɴ

      Your comment really hit me. I’m in the exact same position as you, but I’m 12 years younger. But I definitely did know I was different from a very very young age.

      • http://www.facebook.com/ZainUlAabideen98 زينا العابدين

        “Whomever Allah guides, no one can misguide, and whomever Allah misguides, no one can guide.”

      • Medi

        God makes no mistakes – don’t listen to the judgemental people. God loves all his creatures

    • Hyde

      Replace SSA with any other attraction and you argument would still be understandable. Good template though.

      Try living in a world where you can’t commit fornication with women because “your religion” says it is wrong. How many opportunities, how much pain, how much sadness, how much agonizing days. Making excuses with girls during foreplay, being labeled as a “fagget” by the guys. Even having Muslims make fun of you. The pain, the horror. God created me this way, but I can’t enjoy the forbidden fruit…do you see what I mean? The template works either way.

      Bye the way the post is very understanding. It is an opposing view so why would it be exactly as you want it ? Huh ?

    • Jack

      indeed it is brother and i say that with pride and though im not gay i completely abhor the way homosexuals are treated in “muslim” countries the constant jokes , berating and shunning its disgraceful and disgusting and i apologize for that on behalf of all ignorant bigots who use god to justify hate

  • goolam

    Actually Gareth, there are many examples of exceptions and exclusions in the Shariah where what is one hundred percent sinful in one area, is not so in another area. One persone may be given an exemption to perform salaah while impure, while another may not perform that same salaah. We cannot kill another person, but we are given exceptions for that too. Stealing is absolutely wrong, but there is no sin if people fear death etc. I agree, homosexuality is not well understood scientifically, psychologically or medically. But we cannot kid ourselves that it isn’t real. We cannot kid ourselves that we are not responsible to understand it. And we cannot pretend that we have a responsibility to end violence and abuse of homosexual people (not sexual deviants or whatever else you want to imagine it as).

    • Hyde

      People that are habitual adulterers or
      masterbaters can also be viewed as sexual deviants, right?

      • Jack

        hhhhhhhh holly shit you people are obsessed with sex whether master bating or “adultery” i mean seriously why not focus on education , science instead of stuff that is personal to each person

        • Jekyll

          Ohhhhh shit…it is a topic that is hotly debated, probably the most polemical issue, and I for am sick how the liberal apologists. IT is MY religion, bloody hell I will discuss it vanity if I have to.
          (I have absolutely no interest what homosexuals do or not do, but the exoneration of alternative lifestyles by Islam is blasphemous)

          • IceAlex Gr

            YOUR religion…Oh sorry, Allah apparently is on the Internet disguised as Jekyll…that’s a revelation. Well I guess this explains a lot, only God knows the heart of God, since if a human presumed to know it, well…i think this would be wrong

          • Jekyll

            “Everytime I’m out, they pull me back in”
            Yeah buddy, It is MY Religion and worth defending…nothing else. Damned ludicrous to think that I was saying I AM Religion…

          • Medi

            I disagree, you have a lot of interest in what homosexuals do – you seem obsessed by gay sex . Jack is right, find something else to focus on.

          • Jekyll

            Wrong again sir. It is just this issue is so easy to de construct when homosexuals use the religious card, other than that they are free do what they wish and enjoy their lives.

  • EllieLindan

    So far I’ve found the Muslim community to be more accepting about my homosexuality than the Christian community I grew up in. It’s most certainly not celebrated, but I’m not rebuked, chastised or harmed for how I have been made.

    I’ve been accepted in my partner’s home with open arms and perfect graces. Whether they approve of my sexuality or not, it is not discussed – if it should be raised (such as when the topic of marriage comes up) it’s met with a light hearted attitude and kindness.

    • Hyde

      What Muslim community is that ? Seriously ? Don’t give false hope to others like you, man!

      • Jack

        wooow what a ray of sunshine you are “bachirou wa la tounafirou” i believe is a hadith also you said 1400 years of history well “bro” a history based on a logical fallacy that a saying can be passed down for 250years before being written and still hold any god damn water (thats when dear sahih bukhari and muslim were writen after the death of prophet) and not to mention the fact that umar the sahabi by the way forbid the writing of hadiths after praying for a long time and meditating you could say i mean the whole thing is based on shaky grounds just because the sanad is accepted people usually disregard the matn (google it i have no time to explain if you dont understand ) i mean a hadith says “god’s throne shakes each time a man mounts another man” its in sahih i mean you know about gay pornography right ? men have been mounting men for millions of time so does that mean god’s throne just keeps on shaking come on thats redicilous or is it a metaphore a eupemism maybe ? i just cant keep track with the hadith plus god said that the quran and the quran was protected than how can you put your faith in something like a sahih written by a man long since dead ?!!!!! seriously u might call me liberal or some stuff i dont like name calling but i would settle for reasonable and many other hadiths equally idiotic exist

        • Jekyll

          Wow what haphazard paragraph ?

          • Jack

            “haphazard : characterized by lack of order or planning, by irregularity, or by randomness; determined by or dependent on chance; aimless”. i sincerely doubt that what stopped you from addressing any point i made is lack of order or any of the other meanings of “haphazard” since last time i checked this isnt an academic venue with notations for best sentence or other idiotic things and second why havent you responded to any point i made ? , its quite curious actually

          • Jekyll

            You sir are not a liberal, but a liberal apologist. I do not recall quoting hadiths and nor do I care to. People use exoneration to quote and misquote whatever they want to get their points across. My issue with sodomy is not whether it is ok or not, but that it is utterly indefensible using the Quranic arguments. I do not care if you want to sleep with a tree, don’t try to justify your choice of life by using the Quran as a backboard, just live your live as it is.
            (Prohibition of Drinking…hmmm, is it in the Quran ?)

          • Jack

            yeah and you dont try to get people to shun or even hate those that are different from them I.E gay and alcohol is indeed haram but thats different, alcohol is simply destructive but gayness is not (please dont mention reproduction the human population is suffering from excess and gay couples actually adopt children and raise them with love something of the highest value in islam ) its not “contagious” , its freaking personal nobody is shoving it down anybody’s throat they are simply asking for equal rights thats all and the quran gives no punishment for it the hadith does “death , death and some more death” (of course thats what the hadith is all about) that is why i mentioned it .

          • Jekyll

            Oh yes of course dear old chap, you have the all the answers, that yes indeed the outpour of hypersexuality and gender obfuscation are the sign of the world we live. But then again, the sigs are mentioned in the hadiths, right, bloody hell, why waste time with hadiths, or the sunnah, or Islam, or God, or everything.

            Yes, yes, absolutely, having two mommies or two daddies is perfectly normal. The previous 10, 000 years of humanity must have been sleeping under the rock or something. They don’t know what they have been missing.

            It has nothing to do with reproduction or children, but against the…actually what is the point of all this ? We should all be happy in our agnosticism and eventual atheistism…all the winning the starts of the future!

          • Jack

            we should be happy and satisified however we are born and regardless of who we love and why do you feel so threatened by what other people do with out lifes , you cant stop it actually you have no right to try and stop it u simply live by your moral code (islam ) and deal with it unless you are the bring caliphate back kind of person where the “amire” ,his holiness ,is the religious compass and whoever doesnt follow what him does gets his head chopped off. I for one wouldnt care if i was the last muslim on earth id still worship allah and follow his rules (not the sheikhs fatwas or anyone’s so called hate filled propaganda ). Moreover it is perfectly normal to have 2 daddies or two mommies and studies have shown since gay couples tend to care very deeply and love just as much as any couple (though you probably dont believe in studies right ? ). Also gayness has been recorded very early on in humanity’s history its not something new , and what signs ???? how could anyone trust books that contain this ridiculousness : Bukhari Volume 4, Book 54, Number 537: Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said “If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease.”

            (Bukhari,
            Book of Nikah 3:52) The Prophet said that the best man amongst his
            followers is the one who has the greatest number of wives.

            Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 7: Narrated Said bin Jubair: Ibn ‘Abbas asked me, “Are you married?” I replied, “No.” He said, “Marry, for the best person of this (Muslim) nation (i.e., Muhammad) of all other Muslims, had the largest number of wives.

            (Bukhari 2:134) The sun rises between the two antlers of Satan.

            (Bukhari Kitabul Qadr 3:543) A man inquired, “We earn income from these bondwomen, (other narratives mention prostitutes) so can we do coitus interruptus with them?” The Prophet said, “There is no sin in doing that”.

            i could go on and on and on i mean its disgusting thats what this is , now contrast it to the quran and tell me its not messed up (never mind slavery and forcing yourself on female slaves all of which is condoned in the hadith : is that the history you wanna follow ???? )

          • Jekyll

            Your quoting of hadiths is shameful and pathetic. I have never resorted to hadith or even Qur’anic quotations, but for you to exonerate your beliefs you would love to make a mockery of Islam.

            Having two mommies or daddies is child abuse. Just as Bill Nye stated that teaching religion to your children is child abuse.

            Where do you get the blithering audacity to tell me that I am threatened by homosexuals ? Where have I stated that ? I have met homosecuals and even ony of my friends is a homosexuals, but him being a practising Muslim, he lives a celibate and productive life.

            And who do you think you are that you have the formula to worship God in your own way ? So all the imams and sheikhs of the past were wrong and you in the 21st century have found a miraculous cure of finding “true god”. So all of Islamic history is based on a lie and fabrication, but you now the only Muslim left ?
            Have you read the part of the Grand Inquisitor in The Brother’s Karamazov ? You are the liberalized version of that, my disillusioned dear fellow :(

          • Jack

            shameful seriously ???? whats shamefull about quoting a book you deem great enough and worthy enough that it was the basis for alot of muslim history ??? you think im arrogant for following what i deem is right so i illustrated my reasons hence the quotes ( you can check them if you want ) thus if you wish to credulously follow such books than you dear one are deluded and hey since i highly doubt you’re doing half the things found in these books of hadith stop trying to sound all high and mighty with traditions it just seems hypocritical (unless you’re gonna start dipping flies in your drinks and drinking camel urine taking slaves and selling them , raing them …. ) and no i havent found any “cure ” but i do worship god in my own way (following the quran of course) and that one is personal so you dont really get to have an opinion about it not you and not you sheikhs of blood

          • Jekyll

            Again you misquote, disillusioned fellow. When have I stated anything on hadiths or Quran or any religious textology?
            As I stated before your erupting with exoneration catharsis; by a stroke of a pen you wish to erase 1,400 years of Islamic history, as you so poignantly put it, to make you feel good. Why don’t you have the courage, jack-my-boy, to [ha-ha] to come out with it, eh ?

            Where did I say I am not a sinner ? Who is not a sinner ? But when sin evolves into acceptance and regularity, then how can, how DARE someone pivot it by justification of religion itself ?!?

            My Way, My God, My Religion, My, my, my…oh why? My Life…would it not be something if a personalized, autographed Quran came at the door just for you!

          • Jack

            who mentioned sin ?? you completely missed the point : its the fact that for as traditional as you may like to think you are you simply do exactly as i do but dont admit it , you say you follow the sunnah but dont do half of it ( not saying you’re sinning you simply dont follow the idiocy that is falsely credited to the prophet ) otherwise you wouldnt have gay Muslim friends (no such thing was ever accepted back then ) and i assume you have friends that are non believers well back in the day that was forbidden , and you dont go around forcing jizya on people or sharia or anything you’re a diluted traditionalist which means liberal these day right ? and you seem to think you know whats right ,that history defines us and everything we can do. Well that line of thinking is simply backwards much like the people of old had their own ijtihad based on their times and tafseer we can have ours though not mine i do not in anyway claim to have superior knowledge of the quran or tafseer but i follow those i deem worthy i ascribe to no madhhab or sect i am a muslim and i follow what is right and ask god for guidance if you wish to confine your deen to fallable people long since dead go ahead but i wont follow you and its presicely people like you that simply do but do not question the “history of 1400 years” that we are stuck in this rut as a whole , that a sheikh that never had any science lessons can allow or forbid research into subjects (especiall when following the “”””opinion”””” of old scholars ) that is exactly whats wrong with the ummah right now

          • Jekyll

            “The sunnah is idiocy”…boy you really are a jack, if you know what I mean. It is people like that that give no rights to anybody, with your degenerate understanding of the past. History did not began with the Stonewall riots, ya hear me boy ? We are HISTORY.
            I do not have gay Muslim friends, because they are chaste, practising Muslims, so the former word is not necessary. I even heard of homosexuals to eventually marry and have children while controlling their homosexual desires (and please don’t give the bullshit of excuse of fulfilling rights for your wife).

            This is beyond degenracy of homseuxlaity or sodomy…bid’ah as I ever saw one. Don’t you dare juxtapose bidah with ijtihad (like Manji).

            What do you think, that you could erase the past and pretend it never existed ? Are you that desperate ? Have some courage my boy…and suffer like the rest of us!

            (Science, unavailable to the “old blood thirsty sheiks of the past”, also says the prophet may not have actually existed in real life; what then ? )

          • Jack

            “sunnah is idiocy” please try and increase your learning comprehension i believe i have said that the books of hadith contain true idiocy not that all of it is wrong (the word was “half” to be exact) one cant know that but the problem is you have completely evaded the hadiths i quoted (they are not misquoted or falsely translated ) so why is that ? and damn if im not flabbergasted by your “we are history” you see thats not the adequate statement it should read “all we ever are and ever will be is history” and im amazed that you find it acceptable to condemn a man to a life of misery and a women to a husband that will never really love her (cuz marriages like that workout soooo well ) its sad thats what it is and please id say the entire traditions you claim in the name of the prophet are bid’ah but i digress and if you havent noticed yet i dont care about the past im more interested in the now and the tomorrow of it all (“suffer” what a way to put it , i guess you consider islam a source of suffering then huh ??? i do not suffer nor did god create us to suffer also u seem mistaken about something im not saying that gay muslims can go and commit zina well liwat in this case since zina in and of itself is haraam though you probably assumed otherwise i advocate that they be treated equally and livz as they wish without people bringing out their pitchforks ) and you seem to have a problem with the concept of science the ones who said the prophet didnt exist are academics and that is their opinion and other opinion exists science is the “intellectual and practical activity encompassing the
            systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and
            natural world through observation and experiment.” its the whole “iqraa” part its the essence of our existence .You see god through books and i see god whenever i look at stars and study black holes and the big bang and see the perfection that the universe is and ponder about the one who created it you may belive that i am so far out of islam and thats alright since in the end god is the judge of us all .

          • Jekyll

            I felt religious only when I looked at the night sky. In sheer amazement, did I recoil to state that “Did my Lord created all that and me, the small man ?” In that perfection I see sodomy as human imperfection.
            Again with the hadiths; that’s poor and sloppy, old chap.
            Oh yes the rights of the wife, tssk…what about the rights of the Muslim ummah, or the community, or heck even yourself.

            Oh yeah of course to sodomites could happily live together in a muslim community….yeah in the future and you’re al about the future. Burn the past to crisp. The future is everything for you. Well enjoy it well, for it truly belongs to you and has nothing do with me.

            (Just tell me when you get that special copy of the Quran)

          • Jack

            hahaha imperfection huh ? murder , psychopaths , sawing people’s heads off and hanging gays now thats human imperfection and yes i shall enjoy the future and you , you can simply go on dwelling in the past and as far as that “special copy” well once i get the copy with the punishment for gays or the punishment for apostasy (unrelated but equally important for the tradionolists) and the right to enslave and kill prisoners of war then i shall truly give you a heads , until then dear old chap.

          • Jekyll

            Oh apostasy, well it took you long enough to bring that around. Personally I love the idea! I would personally want to so many people to leave Islam altogether. Heck I’ll pay for the ticket to San Francisco if need be it!

            Yup, thats what everybody in the past was doing; capturing slaves, hanging gays. killing apostates, raping, murdering, abusing, hanging, that is all that ever happened in the past, yup, right ?

            The fact practically everybody and and everything was subliminally accepted as duress when it DID not go against the accepted order. Anyway best of luck old chap, do tell when the book arrives.

          • Jack

            you know what ill holler at you when both versions come but for now im contempt with the one i have thank you very much

          • Jekyll

            Well I hope you do holla, but the please once again do not use the current version to exonerate yourself. Wait for Jack 2.0. Anyway nice chatting with you Jack my boy. Salam and good luck!

          • Jack

            though we may differ greatly in terms of what we consider right and wrong (religiously) i do appreciate you not using the “stonewall” method most muslims choose I.E do not debate on religion and if debated resort to takfire , so good luck to you too

          • Jekyll

            There is no excommunication in Islam. Who am I to decide who stays and leaves ? I mean certainly if I had the ability, there would be many deviants that I would want out. In fact I was somewhat serious when I stated that there should be a Muslim Apostate Advocacy Group lol! (MAAG)

            Besides my original disputations was that sodomy is and always will be indefensible using the Quran, as much if someone were to say that one must only pray two times a day, instead of five.

          • Jack

            i greatly admire that stance if only more people understood that ,we could have a difference of opinion in the community that actually leads somewhere other than hate and exclusion. I guess one of our biggest problems as muslims is we dont talk to each other enough be it the major sects or even as individuals when it comes to subjects that concern our religion (and actually its indeed not defensible thats clear but it is not punishable which is my point though we strayed far away from that).

          • Jekyll

            Well Jack my boy, as I stated before Muslims should be intolerant to the intolerable and sodomy is just that. There is not much to talk about if homosexuals think they use the Quran to perpetuate their ‘abominable lifestyles’, then what do you think it will happen ?

            ‘Islamic punishments’ themselves are problematic because we do not have an Islamic framework to legislate proper Sharia (Sharia Councils…puuupleazze!)

            Sodomy is pretty much an obstinate issue, but from what I have heard the punishments vary. One is straight up hangin, yet another, ironically it is only lashes, beacuse homosexulaity is considered such a low act, it is not considered an act of sanity LOL!

            Hate; one can the act, i.e. the sin (which undoubtedly it is) but hating the sinners, especially if they have the courage to admit their “peccadilloes”, is not compassionate.
            But certainly how can one not hate who flamboyants who openly live in sin happily and freely and further try pivot it around the Quran ? Satanic arrogance….

          • IceAlex Gr

            Well it is very interesting how you use the word “hate”. The fact that you accept hatred even the way you describe it, shows how you perceive Quran(Peace).

          • Jekyll

            Nice try…try again…

          • Aliyah

            I don’t think it is allowed to have homosexual relationships in Islam. Allah has said that we all go through trials and if we overcome our desires, we succeed. All of us have incredible temptations at times and it is hard to get over them, for a homosexual person, trying to remain chaste is a massive trial. It is not the right of other Muslims to judge. We don’t know what is in someone’s heart., what they feel or go through. Yes, they should resist but we can’t say they are dirty or bad for giving in. I believe for some people ‘conditioning’ may even help to change peoples desires as it happens to all of us all the time in normal life. However, who is Jekyll or anyone else to say that someone is a sinner? That is for Allah to judge. We can advise a Muslim that yes it is considered a sin in islam but not judge them. How many sins do we ourselves commit? We have no right to go round condemning other people for their sins, and cannot shun gay people and tell them they are not Muslims if they are in a homosexual relationship. It is our judging attitude and looking down at other people which ultimately pushes people away from Islam. I think homosexual Muslims should be given support to help them overcome their desires which I would imagine is a very hard thing for them already without us sitting on our high horses judging! May Allah guide us all and help us all overcome our desires and instincts which are against the teachings of Islam. Ameen

          • Jekyll

            Of course I agree. I did not throw out the people that suffer and even times fall for this fitna…but those that openly celebrate this lifestyle and have it as if they are so proud of it. If they do not think of it is as sin, then why would they ever suffer for it, and of not suffering, then no forgiveness or redemption. If they themselves ask not for forgiveness then why would God forgive them ?

          • Aliyah

            I know what you are saying but your duty is simply to inform, not judge and get frustrated. I should mention, there are people saying they are Muslims here but they only follow Quran and not the hadith which I find strange because the basic tenet of Islam is belief in Allah and belief in Muhammad (pbuh) as final prophet so if someone says I believe only what Quran says and ignore the hadiths then that is like cutting out Islam completely because Allah himself has said in numerous places in the Quran to follow the example of Prophet Muhammad and why would Allah write that if there was nothing left behind of the prophet(such as collection of hadith which was compiled of his life). However, people here seem to say they believe in Quran and not hadith and I find that hard to understand as without hadith, we wouldn’t know islamic prayer, how to fast etc anything at all. The hadiths are where we get all that information from! It is strange to say you believe in only half of islam.

            Anyhow coming back to the topic, Islam understands people have needs but encourages those needs to be fulfilled legally and forbids certain things. Allah is most merciful and there is no one who loves or understands us the way Allah does so Allah knows exactly what each one of us feels and goes through.

            As a Muslim, you cannot justify your wrongdoing of having sex with another same sex person and say I am doing right. You should acknowledge, “Yes, I am doing something that displeases my Lord but I am finding it hard and seek repentance for it” and then try to stop that sin. If you do it, it is not something to be told to other people and people don’t need to say islam allows people to practise homosexuality (because the hard truth is, it doesn’t) None of the Abrahamic religions believe homosexuality is natural however we do realise people can have desires that deviate from the norm but the whole point is to control or try to control them. For example, homosexuality is very normal now …some people are genuinely only attracted to same sex perhaps but most people are now bisexuals simply due to lust. There is so much open lewdness in society that people don’t know what else or how else to experiment with their bodies except to do all that they can in any possible way whether that includes swinging, exchanging partners, degradation, beatings and humiliation etc. Now someone could say make bestiality or necrophilia legal and people will say yes it is natural and fine because they are bored of all they do. (No, I don’t know so much about these things due to any personal involvement in these things, I just study psychology). Porn is now made to be a normal and natural part of life. What next?

            I am saying homosexuality is more prevalent because it is taught to be normal, just as anything can be made normal nowadays. The truth is, when you love someone even man to man, the act of anal sex can hardly be a romantic way to show that love. There is something off about it no matter how pleasurable! It is just not right not to mention how many diseases it can cause and toilet problems etc! We are all humans and are attracted to things that we know are wrong. As humans, we have the free will to control that and choose what we do with our lives. We can’t make something right in our minds when it is not. It doesn’t mean we hate ourselves or think we are abnormal either. The point is every person has some kind of desire, we are all conscious of feeling this or that and wondering if this is right or wrong etc but when it comes to choice it is always up to us. Thinking of wanting to do something doesn’t make someone a sinner, it is the act. If someone is a Muslim then they should realise it is not allowed in Islam but at the end of the day the rest of us can’t judge them, firstly because we are hardly perfect and secondly, we don’t know other people’s feelings and life situations etc. What people do is between them and Allah. i wouldn’t want someone judging me. However, if someone is not a Muslim, then it doesn’t even apply to them so I don’t see why they are getting riled up about this topic! :-)

          • Jekyll

            I agree 100% with 99% of what you said. I am bit frustrated because homosexuals never ever understand what real compassion means unless you completely agree with them. That is all. There is no middle way to compromise with them. And you know what I do not really care what people do with their personnel lives, especially non-muslims; one reason I could care less about gay marriage; marriage itself is a joke in the western world, but to use religion as a pivot is indefensible.

  • Karim Hweih

    It’s interesting because Quran itself which is the word of Allah does not condenm homosexuality yet u use it as a reference and use a Hadith that was written over 50 years after the prophet died to explain the story of lot when clearly it is in the Quran this is haram to partner Quran with Hadith it’s as if we are partnering this mans word to the word of Allah furthermore in the Quran it does not state man and his wife the correct arabic translation is man and spouse meaning partner
    Islam is peace and the current state we are in as an ummah is critical.
    These hadiths have divided islam into so many sects just like all the other religions except the Quran the actually sacred book which has not been changed for over 1400 years.
    The shaitan has found a way to do the same thing he did with christianity and Judaism to Islam without changing Quran by adding these propostorous stories that contradict Quran our problem as Muslims is that we follow stories and idolize our prophet rather than study Quran and forget to pay attention to the words
    EVer since I was 4 I knew I was Gay and I refuse to believe in a mans word that claims he heard the prophet say this or that than my own. Quran never condemns homosexuality and the story of Lot pbuh his wife ends up staying in the town the story speaks about lust being gay I don’t lust for a man I seek a loving relationship with another man so Allah never states in his own words that its haram whats haram is that we have allowed sunni Sufi shia to practice what they believe yet when it comes to gay we completely close the door

    • Hyde

      Unbelievable. It posts like that
      make traditional Muslims flinch, when you use the Quran to justify your
      actions. 1400+ years of history are wrong, but you now know better? If you say
      the Ibis can change hadiths around then can’t traditional Muslims say that the
      current zeitgeist pop culture of sexual Gomorrah is also from Iblis?

    • Rien Soewardji

      “For Muslim men and women,- for believing men and women, for devout men
      and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and
      constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women
      who give in Charity, for men and women who fast (and deny themselves),
      FOR MEN AND WOMEN WHO GUARD THEIR CHASTITY, and for men and women who
      engage much in God’s praise,- for them has God prepared forgiveness and
      great reward. (The Noble Quran, 33:35)”

  • Rachael Scott

    It’s not factual but historically obtuse and negligent to say that Christianity watered down its religion in order to become popular. I’m a Muslim and I believe that Allah (swt) does not make mistakes in the creation. Homosexuality is inbuilt into people and so long as they do not use it as abuse (sexual assault or molestation) then they are within the natural order and committing no offense nor sin against the Creator.

    • Hyde

      So homosexual sexual relationships are okay? Can a pornstar be a practicing Muslim? I think there is one in Denmark. Well I think he can right, since God created him that way?

      Just amazing to see how the liberals and the crazy fundamentalist will twist scriptures to define their own nafsi desires!

      • Alliyah Brown

        I agree with your sentiment, we mustn’t make what is haram halal, but the only act that takes you outside of Islam is shirk. All the rest are sins and we know there are major and minor sins.

  • Karim Hweih

    I never stated that it was not harram nor I am I justifying anal sex wether u want to admit it or not Allah our creator he is one and is not partnered with anyone or anything His words never state that a person who is attracted to the same sex is unlawful in islam I knew I was gay since I was 5yrs old what makes anyone feel the need to deprive a person because of his sexuality from practicing the one true religion of Islam so I am suppose to pretend that I am not homosexual why do so many Muslims think that cuz u gay u just fuck men and get wasted I pray 5 times a day I know the Quran more than most Muslims even more than my family I love islam how dare anyone tell me that I will burn in hell or that me being me is sinful I am suppose to pretend that I don’t have these feelings and that I am never going to make a mistake and Sin so I should kill myself or stop worshipping Allah look at Syria u got muslim men killing muslim men in the name of Allah shame on this ummah u better than me I am less then u cuz I am honest with myself cuz I am honest with Muslims this is the problem with this ummah u don’t read Quran u just follow folk tells u dont respect the law of Allah u create new ones and corrupt your own country for the sake of sunni or shia or Sufi or Wahhabis were any of these groups present during the time of Mohamed pbuh NO they weren’t yet u identify yourselves with these sects we. Are all muslim and we need to start realizing that there r a lot of our brothers and sisters who struggle with there sexuality

    • Alliyah Brown

      I understand where you are coming from, but brother, can you please refrain from using the ‘f’ word? You are a Muslim and Allah hates the use of bad language whether or not you are gay. Fi amanillah

  • Karim Hweih

    Wake up ummah just cuz a person is attracted to the same sex and is muslim don’t mean they r evil we the ummah have the responsibility to come up with a solution and a way to support one another not execute or kick out every muslim that comes out and says i am gay yea I am gay I am muslim and I worship Allah I don’t commit adultery cuz it’s harram I don’t fuck every guy I see nor do I drink or do drugs I love Allah and on the day of jugdement this ummah will be judged for depriving so many Muslims from practicing islam islam means peace our prophet lived amongst tribes and Jews and Christians in peace u honestly think he killed gay people Allah Akbar I can’t even share my personal struggle without being attacked by own ummah may Allah guide us and bless us I follow Quran and I don’t and refuse to place Hadith side by side with Allahs words the Quran

    • Jekyll

      Sad boy…

      • Medi

        Sad judgement

        • Jekyll

          Even sadder consequences

  • Karim Hweih

    U r comparing a gay person to a pornstart cuz that’s what a homosexual does they just fuck and call it a day ? How ridiculous and hateful is that comment yea I am gay I don’t love I just like to fuck like pornstarts educate yourself and fear Allah for I am not u and u r not me but we r muslim I follow Quran and u do too u honestly think I am trying to say that Allah okay s for me to just have sex like a pornstar no it’s about me loving another man wanting to have a partner I can grow old with we’re we r both muslim and enjoy each others company support each other what u think that’s all I want in life to have sex with men shame on u sex is not everything it’s not worth sacrificing islam adubillah as if I am some sick person forcing myself to love another man ya Allah it’s a natural attraction how does pornstar qualify in this category

    • Hyde

      Okay, I am assuming those comments are directed at me.

      In what manner did I compare a pornstar to your situation, brother, and yes I will call you that. All I said was hypothetically a rapist, a murder, stripper can all be so-called practicing Muslim, right ? So in that manner yes even a non-celibate homosexual Muslim can be a practicing Muslim, right ? But there is the hich, celibacy. Put yourself in my shoes. I wanted to be the girls all my life, yet THEORETICALLY speaking, there is only one manner that can accomplished, and if Our Lord wills it not, then THEORETICALLY speaking I will die a celibate, right ? Now a man and woman are two distinct creatures upon which our Sharia places different obligations, so do you see where the idea of homosexuality comes in ? Being gay is one thing, being a sodomite is another.

      We all have desires for all sorts of things. There might men who are tempted by bestiality, or incest or any thing else, but controlling the nafs is what the inner jihad is all about. I am with you until you say you want a “loving relationship” with another man, no rape, or coercion, or anything. That is where I cannot and will not agree with you, brother, again I use the word brother. Loving relationships between two men is not sanctionable, and I will do anything that I can from allowing that to happen from AN ISLAMIC point of view.

      Yes I know you probably hate me for saying that, but you must understand brother [btw what is your age group] we are not going to change the rules for this fitna. And outside the Islamic point of view, I really do not care.

      The Quran also does not tell you exactly how to pray, ritualistically, so the Quran only excuse is unjustifiable.

      If you want the ummah to give you a solution, you must meet them half-way…loving homosexual relationships is not going to work.

      We live in a hypersexulaized, deviant saturated societies, where horrific things are happening, and you must accept, excuse me, in my opinion, dear brother you must accept that homosexuality is not the norm of society. No i did not say it was a disease, but an abnormality,

      Let me ask you this, are there homosexuals in jannah ? If you control your desires, and die a mujaid, then what will be your houries be ? The prefect is Man and women. I know you will no agree, but my point is opposite yours.

      -Salam,
      Hyde

      (Celibate and chaste Muslims with SSA are admirable)

  • guest

    Jekyll..u need a serious holiday!! Live your life focus on your own faith and your own beliefs. Dont preach or try manipulate others with false information. How dare you address Christianity in such a manner. Should you die by the sword for insulting Christianity? Of course not because we love even the misguided because you are Gods child. Yes gay unions are not encouraged and not taught in the Bible but all people including homosexuals are welcome, loved and cherished in the house of God for it is not our place to judge only God the creator. To all gay people living in fear, be still, you are loved and be patient with the ignorant. God loves you.Never take your own life because it is precious. You are precious. Again God does not make mistakes. PEACE.

    • Jekyll

      What about those people who are sexually attracted to their brothers sisters, mothers…will God show love to them as well ?
      (I do not know where I insulted Christianity, but dearest apologies for that :) )

      • IceAlex Gr

        Well, even though I personally find it “sexually” weird if a brother and a sister are BOTH attracted to each other, they should not be discouraged from practicing their love consentually. But they should be made aware of the possible genetic complications if they decide to make an offspring with one another. Furthermore, I have heard of cases where a sister or a mother may carry the child of a brother/son because his bride could not (surrogate mothers). They did not have sex together however they carry (with scientific methods) the child of their relative. Some would say this is one of the greatest gifts one can give. Exactly, where does the sin start for Islam? The sexual act? The kiss?The simple desire (not a choice)?The touch? What if a same-sex couple love each other, live with one another another, adopt a child together but never have sex together, does your Quran have answers for that as well?i am sure it does not because you are missing the point of religions as a whole and you use them as a means to oppress on other people’s life.For you Quran is the word of Allah even though you have not actually spoken to Allah, have you? Nope you just take what was served to you by some people a few hundred years ago without judgement. As when some were saying that the earth is flat because that “truth” was served to them and used this as an excuse to hunt people.

  • Rien Soewardji

    Al Quran is clear about homosexuality.

    But if you feel that you are attracted toward males and you don’t do adultery like people of Sodom and Gomorrah did. There’s warranty from The Almighty God :

    “For Muslim men and women,- for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in Charity, for men and women who fast (and deny themselves), FOR MEN AND WOMEN WHO GUARD THEIR CHASTITY, and for men and women who engage much in God’s praise,- for them has God prepared forgiveness and great reward. (The Noble Quran, 33:35)”

    • Steven Lund

      I think your choice of using “adultery” here is incorrect.

      Here is the Definition of Adultery:
      a·dul·ter·y
      əˈdəlt(ə)rē/
      noun
      1. voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and a person who is not his or her spouse.

      Perhaps you should recognize that condemning homosexuals for pursuing a happy relationship, is simply bigotry. Do you not wish for members of other religions to tolerate and respect YOUR way of life?

      Think before you judge and condemn others.

      • Rien Soewardji

        Remember what The Almighty God did to the people of Sodom and Gomorrah? And remember the doomsday is very near. So if you want to spoil your desire to the maximum point, it’s up to you. But you have to know that every action has its consequence. Bad actions will be punished and good deeds will be rewarded.

        Adultery was the part of that punishment. That’s why Prophet Lut’s (peace be upon him from The Almighty God) wife was punished too.

        And if you are not a muslim. The rules of Islam doesn’t apply to you.

        • Steven Lund

          I’ve read that. And interestingly enough, both the Qur’an version and the Christianity version of the story of Lut/Lot reads like it condemns RAPE. NOT homosexuality itself.

          Again, you are using the word ADULTERY incorrectly. Your statements make no sense. Also, your “carrot and the stick” argument is hilariously over used by the other Abrahamic religions.

          To clarify, i lack the belief in the existence of a god/deity. So to ME, your statements read as Crazy and Bigoted. If you do not wish to be SEEN as crazy or bigoted you should re-evaluate your thoughts on life, and EVOLVE with the rest of the world.

          I am also aware of the fact that not all muslims see the world the way you do. They in fact recognize that the book was written according to the norms of 2,000 years ago, and are not compatible with today’s society.

          In fact, my same-sex MUSLIM fiance would call your behavior as bigoted and ignorant.

          Please rethink your position.

          • Rien Soewardji

            I just want to make it softer. Muslim will not ask for Allah’s wrath. If your “fiance” is a muslim, tell him good man is for good woman. Bad man is for bad woman. I hope that he fears his God.

            And for you ask for The Almighty God’s forgiveness before it’s too late. Whatever happiness you seek is for temporary in this world. One day you will die and you will face The Almighty God’s wrath.

            If you say I’m a bigot. Thanks so much. I don’t know if bigotry has a different meaning now. I’m just telling you the truth.

          • Rien Soewardji

            Rethink of my position? I’m a muslim. That’s my position. I worship The Almighty God and I fear of Him. Fornication/extramarital sex/adultery is forbidden in Islam. If you want to live in the Dajjal Freedom System, do it. Freedom in the world only for temporary.

          • Steven Lund

            Sounds like a personal problem.

            I’m perfectly fine with people believing or disbelieving what ever they want. But the moment you use your beliefs as an excuse or justification to harm others, we are going to have a problem.

            It is clear to me, that you are quite happy living in a tiny ignorant bubble.

            Good luck with that.

          • Rien Soewardji

            The rules of The Almighty God are the commands for all true muslims. And this article is talking about Islam, not about your belief. If it is attacking your belief, you can complain about it.

          • Steven Lund

            Perhaps I did not make my intentions clear in my comments.

            I want to be very clear that i am NOT attacking Islam in anyway. What i meant, is that the attitude of muslims appear to be changing, and that it seems the more anti-gay sentiments are coming from the hard-core conservatives. This is much the same with the hard-core conservatives that follow Christianity.

            My real point here, is that folks need to let go of such archaic ideas, and be willing to re-evaluate the meanings of their religious texts based on the current times, and not be influenced by what was considered “okay” several decades ago. I just want people to grow up.

          • Rien Soewardji

            Islam has very clear rules in Al Quran. There’s no true muslim will steer away from the rules of The Almighty God. So if you have same sex attraction and you are muslim, better you stay chastised. If you are not muslim, do as you wish.

          • Steven Lund

            Not all muslims believe that. The tide is turning very rapidly in Turkey. Good for them. :)

          • Rien Soewardji

            It’s understandable. They have been under the influence of Mustapha Kemal for so long. Mustapha Kemal Ataturk was not a devout muslim. Many people doubt that he was a muslim at all.

          • Steven Lund

            They prefer secular law, because it does not favor any religion. Nor does it stifle it.

            I see that as a good thing.

            What country do you hail from? It may help me understand why you believe the way you do.

          • Rien Soewardji

            The country is not a big matter for a devout muslim. In shaa Allah.

          • Medi

            And you can judge because…?

          • Jekyll

            Are you not doing the same ?

          • Jekyll

            Bro stop wasting your time with these people. They mock you openly.

          • Steve Kudlo

            I would add also that the people of Sodom were probably bisexuals, otherwise they would not have families, and would soon die out.

          • Jekyll

            Well that of course changes everything…guess they were not born gay after all.

          • Steve Kudlo

            I am pleased to be a part of this discussion. I should point out that bisexuality is also an orientation. A person in Sodom might be straight, gay, bisexual, gender dysphoric, or somewhere in between. The bible and the quran do not deal with orientation, but behavior, otherwise there would be no forgiveness. You cannot forgive a person to be black or white, or left handed or right handed. If a person is ugly in your judgement, you have no need of forgiving them for being ugly.

          • Jekyll

            So goes the argument of being born a homosexual…perhaps murders and habitual addicts may use the same defense.

          • Steve Kudlo

            Again, Jekyll, you are judging the person. The works do not make the person unclean or evil. Addiction is a physical disease, not a moral orientation. A murderer is not constantly murdering. Otherwise there would not be the possibility of repentance. Sexual orientation, however, is constant.

          • Jekyll

            Enjoy the logic of the modern world.

          • Jekyll

            Well you and your gay Muzzie can fully enjoy the evolved world.
            Rape ? Really….new ideas…evolved ideas for the modern world…perhaps the most evolved ideas for you folks is that religion itself is a joke.

    • Jekyll

      Have you not seen how these people slaughter our views ?

  • Steve Kudlo

    My name is Steven, and I love men. So why do I need to be put to death? All responders, please do not be angry.

    • guest3

      Because the government wants the governed to live in fear. Any person can be accused of homosexuality. Evidence and proof is often a secondary or considered non-essential. Why would anyone call someone homosexual unless there was a base for it? In many western countries (except for Texas) this has no impact on being either a free man or arrested by the police.

      A libertarian step forward: The US Supreme Court ruled in Lawrence v. Texas that section 21.06 of the Texas Penal Code, which designates “homosexual conduct” a criminal offense, violated the privacy and liberty of adults.

      Worth noting that Russia for instance has very harsh punishment for possession and distribution of any type of pornographic material. The decision as to what is pornographic is up to the state police and prosecutor. So convenient. So very convenient! You don’t want to live in these countries, but some are not there by choice,

    • nadia

      im a muslim and i have absolutely no idea why. i think people just say its a sin without having any reasonings. even the bible says its a sin

      • Jekyll

        Oh it is a sin…whether people look at it or not, it is their business…being gay might not be…but being a sodomite is.

        • Medi

          Best to leave the judging to Allah … Look inward and work on yourself, that’s where peace is.

          • Jekyll

            Well hello there good man! I know Gareth, he was being polite as possible and apparently there are no two opinions, only one :(

    • Jekyll

      Mr. Steve I respect your choice to love whatever living or not living creature you want…just don’t try to get by religious texts.

  • guest3

    People misunderstand the significance of persecution of homosexuality in the context of government. In western countries it so common that teenage boys throw in derogatory slanders of others being homosexual. Often completely baseless. While this definitely is upsetting and causes anguish in the bullied person we have to maintain our horizon and perspective. Remember that this type bullying remains strictly on the psychological level. But here comes the important part. In countries that are ruled by iron fist the second stage is way more serious! The person accused of homosexuality is actually arrested as a criminal. The important note is that in virtually any country the criminals have little or no right to physical integrity. Prisoners are beaten, raped or even killed. No right to physical integrity once accused of a crime. Conviction based on evidence is not a strict requirement. Going back to the high schools in USA. What evidence is needed to maintain a derogatory voice. None! Back to country of extreme despair. What evidence is required for arrest. None!

  • Matt D.

    Reading the comments here makes me sad. Of course Gareth is correct in his position. God help us all.

    • Jekyll

      Gee thanks…fighting hand and limb here. Love the moderators or the people that run this blog just pretend that this is so normal.

  • Gary Z

    I am a man. I was born with a natural desire to sexually be with a man and have no stirrings for women in any way. In an Islamic environment, what place is there for me? Am I expected to interact with men in much the same way men and women are not supposed to interact? Explain to me how I can go to a mosque, be with men, and not be aroused. Heterosexual men are not to be in the company of women so freely because of where that potentially leads. What about me?…

    • someone

      Find yourself a woman. Your belief you cannot be sexually aroused by a women is stopping you from actually marrying like a normal person. You just need to find someone you love, not who you feel sexually aroused.

      • Gary Z

        If I take what you’re saying literally, then step 1 is find a woman or step 2 after changing my beliefs about what is sexually arousing…?
        I do not believe I cannot be sexually aroused, I know it. I grew up in a non-Muslim family. Before I took shahadah I had tried to be with girls…I tried to have sex, I kissed, went to second base, etc. but I was unable to get aroused. I tried and tried, suffered and suffered at my lack. But when in school and I was in English class just sitting at my desk doing assignments given to us by my male teacher had me aroused. I had night emissions, and fantasies about being with him. So no, it’s not my belief, it’s a fact.
        Marry me to your daughter or sister, cousin or someone. Only one Muslim has ever offered and I didn’t accept because of the uncertainty. He was from Yemen, I was in jamaa’t Tabligh in Pakistan.
        I think the problem is really Muslims. There are so many Muslims who have more conviction in their understanding of deen than they actually have imaan and tawakkal’alAllah. They put themselves before Allah.

  • Andrew Williams

    Why would someone ‘choose’ to be LGBT if they get treated like shit by so many brainwashed religious people or non-religious people?

    They wouldn’t. The end.

  • ღMidnight Memoriesღ

    I asked my islamic teacher if we’re allowed to support homosexual people,and she said that we should treat them like sick people (mental/mentally ill). And I’m just like that ain’t right. They’re humans, they have feeling. Pulse how do u treat a sick person? You give them feel comfortable which kinda is like supporting them so I’m just like she probably means mental. And if we treat them like they’re ill we’re going to judge them…I mean in our minds, which makes us kinda hypocritical. I know it’s not allowed in Islam, in my religion but that doesn’t mean we (Muslims) should treat them like there a rock- emotionless, feelingless, and someone who just has no right of doing whatever. We shouldn’t judge them, let Allah do that because he has the right to (we don’t) and in Islam we’re here as Allah’s (God’s) slave, we’re here to worship him and appreciate him. I think we should treat them as humans because that’s what they are, just humans with feelings for the same sex. Don’t punish (bully) them here (on earth) let Allah punish them and if we bully them we will be punished by our lord, Allah. We are here as his slave, we are here to worship him and to obey his orders we’re not here to bully people or in other words mistreat people. Treat people the way you wanna be treated. And plus, prophet Muhammad (PBUH) made the non-believers understand our religion (Islam) and if he didn’t do that and he started treating them like sick/mental/mentally ill people or started judging

    • ღMidnight Memoriesღ

      Them we wouldn’t be here, we wouldn’t be in this religion.

      • Harlan Hikaru Fox

        Allah demands death to any who won’t submit. Those who won’t kill non-believers (or those who violate The Shari’ah) are apostates, and must be killed themselves.

        Allah prescribed this for you.

  • Medi

    Gay people are born gay – it’s not a choice.
    Do you really think you would choose to put your life at risk for a lifestyle choice.
    The answer is NO

    Until Islam and some sections of Christianity come out of the dark ages and accepts this point – that gay people are gods creatures just like everything else, you will be responsible for the murders, suicides and misery of fellow humans.

    Islam and Christianity sanctions slavery in their holy books , do we still consider slavery to be a just practice – NO.

    Be mindful of what world you are creating through your prejudices. You will be judged on your actions by the only one who can judge.

    • Jekyll

      Wow different side there fellow. But homosexuality is not clearly defined and no carte Blanche appearance of sodomy is not going to be religiously accepted despite what few or many individuals say about it.

  • Harlan Hikaru Fox

    Muhammad (PBUH) was the Perfect Man, and he’d slice homosexuals’ heads off with a sword. If you wouldn’t do the same, you aren’t a true Muslim. You’re an apostate that needs to have your own head cut off.

    You have to live up to Muhammad (PBUH)’s example as best you can (since it’s impossible to 100% live up to it).


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