Top 7 Bible Verses About Victory

As I began writing this article, I was struggling with feelings of discouragement and defeat. Although I am typically a very positive person, some recent career challenges had brought me to a crisis of belief of sorts. But as I started researching the biblical verses about victory for this article, I was once again reminded of God’s amazing power and love for each one of us. He truly does have our best interests in mind, and he wants us to live triumphant lives. With that in mind, here are my top 7 Bible verses about victory.

Deuteronomy 20:4 “…for the Lord your God is he who goes with you to fight for you against your enemies, to give you the victory.” 

Bible Verses About Victory

This is a great verse to begin my list of top verses, because it goes straight to the heart of the matter. Once we accept the Lord as our Savior and King, he goes to battle on our behalf. He saves us and vindicates us from our enemies—whoever or whatever that may be. It could be a military enemy, a co-worker, a discontented neighbor, or even a health challenge that confronts us, but God does not want us to be defeated by these things. His heart is that we should overcome any challenge and live successful lives.

I Chronicles 18:6 “Then David put garrisons in Syria of Damascus, and the Syrians became servants to David and brought tribute. And the Lord gave victory to David wherever he went.” 

David is described as “a man after God’s own heart,” because he loved the Lord and wanted to obey him in every area of his life. The Scriptures tell us that it was his custom to ask the Lord for direction and guidance before he made important decisions, and this verse is one of many that shows us the results. It says that the Lord gave David the victory everywhere he went, and this is because David put God first. I believe that God will also bless us with success in our lives when we put him first as well.

I Chronicles 29:11 “Yours, O Lord, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the victory and the majesty, for all that is in the heavens and in the earth is yours. Yours is the kingdom, O Lord, and you are exalted as head above all.” 

I believe that the Lord loves it when we ascribe him the honor and praise that he deserves. This verse does that well, and it refers to many of the characteristics attributed to God. He is full of greatness, power, glory, majesty, and especially victory, as we are discussing in this article. The Lord is exalted above all else—here on the earth and also in the heavens. Because he is victorious, we can follow him and live in victory as well.

Proverbs 21:31 “The horse is made ready for the day of battle, but the victory belongs to the Lord.” 

Any time we are getting ready to enter into a battle, we must make preparations. In ages past, horses were prepared for war along with their riders. Nowadays we prepare by studying our enemy and by strategizing and planning for the most successful outcome possible. This verse, however, makes it clear that in spite of all of our plans, the victory will ultimately belong to the Lord. He is our protector, our guide, and our salvation each and every time.

Proverbs 24:6 “…for by wise guidance you can wage your war, and in abundance of counselors there is victory.” 

Facing the daily challenges of life can often feel like being in the midst of a battle. This is especially true when difficulties and hardships seem to attack us at every turn. However, we can always present our requests to the Lord, as he promises to comfort and sustain us continually. This verse reminds us that victory can be attained by seeking the wisdom of others who have experienced similar challenges, as they can provide valuable counsel as well. It is often a good idea to get a second opinion about important decisions we are facing.

I Corinthians 15:57 “But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.” 

I heard one time that a frequent sign of maturity is having an attitude of gratitude as a main personality trait. As followers of Jesus, we have a lot to be grateful for, because the Lord blesses us so much. This verse reminds us that it is our Lord Jesus Christ who grants us the victory in every area of life. Trusting and obeying him will enable us to walk from success to triumph each and every time.

I John 5:4 “For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.” 

Wow! I love this verse, because it is so encouraging to read when facing hardships and trials. The apostle John is pointing out the fact that our faith in God will lead us to victory, and it can enable us to overcome any difficulties that life throws our way. In other words, when we are born of God, we automatically become “overcomers.” That is the most positive way we can live while also being full of hope and positive expectations.


It is never easy when we face difficulties or challenges, and I have to confess that my job situation was extremely discouraging for a while as well. The Lord has since provided me with a job I enjoy, though, and I am very grateful. God’s word is full of optimism and hope in order to help us overcome the hardships that confront us. He wants to encourage us to face our daily challenges with enthusiasm, strength and joy, because he is fighting our battles right alongside of us. Sometimes, all we have to do is stand still, and he gives us the success. God has our best interests in mind, and he wants us to know that in him we start every day from a point of victory—because he has never been and never will be defeated.

Written by Karla Hawkins

I am very grateful to be a Christian author, editor and translator. Some of my favorite pastimes include traveling, and connecting with family and friends via social media. When I am not working, I love spending time with my family and especially with my precious three-year-old grandson.

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  • SJ

    Sister Hawkins, I run into people all the time who’s hearts are not right with God but God is in charge of these people and their hearts so don’t let these people discourage you. You just deliver the message….you don’t control how people react to it…..You only control your own reaction to it with the help of God that is. Some of the people that get offended at the Word of God are going to try and dump on you….but you just turn all that over to God and keep plowing and planting God’s Word until He gives you a bumper crop. Perseverance is an attribute of the Fruit of the Spirit in you.

    You just fix your eyes on Jesus and give him the glory and watch what happens.

    Give God The Glory

  • pud

    What utter self absorbed hogswallop! Do you for a minute reflect on how amazingly repugnant your pitiful little story is when you consider that the “lord provided you with a job” while today as many as 4000 children will die of starvation or malnutrition related illness. Where is your “lord” and his human sacrificed son when they are writhing in agony taking their last breath in their distraught mothers arms? Oh, that’s right, he’s busy consoling you because you had a crummy job!

    Next time you delve into your book of fables to cherry pick the happy selfish verses that make you feel better when you have a boo boo, Read the other verses in Deuteronomy that offer nothing but violence, killing, suffering ordained by your celestial dictator…

    Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

    Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

    Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

    Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13

    Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20

    And then consider how many children die today of starvation, disease, abuse and neglect while you “praise the lord” for you new job!

    • SJ

      Where were these children’s parents?

      How do you know the ancestors of these children didn’t refuse to tap into God’s saving power or Jesus Christ’s?

      The parents are conduits to the children….Why did Ham and Japheth and their descendants fall away? Didn’t they know Noah and Noah’s God?

      Why did the Jews refuse to follow Jesus Christ?

      Instead of playing pin the blame on God all the time why don’t you start to investigate these other family lines and see what their spiritual practices are and were and check if there were any demonic influences that came into play.

      And please explain why the Jews should have allowed God’s people to worship devil gods and fall under their influence.

      Also explain why the God of the Bible should have tolerated child sacrifices to Baal and Molech.

      And don’t change the subject. Answer each question in detail.

      • pud

        What difference does it matter where their parents were? There are thousands of children abused by their parents every day. The proper question is where is your make believe “god”? Where is he when some child gets cancer? Where is he when they die of malaria? Where is he when they are sexually abused? Oh, he’s out applying for a better job for you!

        Who cares and what difference does it matter what their ancestors did or didn’t do or what nonsense they believed or didn’t believe in? A child that gets cancer bears no fault but your god of love could care less. But hey! He found you a better job!

        You sick self absorbed delusional psychotic.

        The Jews are just as delusional as you are.

        Prove that demons exist

        Prove that devil gods exist

        Your god supposedly sacrificed his own son so he doesn’t seem to have much of a problem with child sacrifice does he?

        The subject is your sick warped demented self absorbed repugnant praise of some invisible non existent deity because he blessed you with a job while he watches daily the suffering of millions of innocent children. He finds you a job and soothes your pitiful boo boos but can’t see himself clear to drop a loaf of bread on a poverty stricken family or intercede when some small girl is getting raped

        How can anyone be so perverted, twisted, warped, deranged and completely self absorbed as you? How can you possibly put your meaningless trite insignificant problems in the same league as those starving to death?

        You are a disgrace!

        • SJ

          Dodged the questions by asking another question.

          F minus.

          • pud

            Your “questions” were incoherent and nonsensical. Had nothing to do with your perverted world view and the crap presented in this disgraceful disgusting hands raised speaking in tongues self centered wicked essay

          • SJ

            Can you experience another person’s reality?

          • pud

            There is only one “reality” People can experience all manner of warped perceptions but reality remains reality. Do you “believe” alien abduction stories? People who claim to see Sasquatch? People who talk to the dead as they gather around a candle lit table? There are lots of delusional people many of whom gather in churches and babble words to invisible virgins in the sky.

          • SJ

            Dodging again.

            The answer is no.

            You can not experience another person’s reality so you can’t judge it.
            So since you lack the ability to render a valid judgment I suggest you stick to yourself and stop overruning other people’s boundaries so impolitely until you learn to respect people different from yourself.

            We don’t have to tolerate your negativity. We can turn you off refusing to listen or read any time we want.

            Why should we tolerate your bad manners when your objective is to make other people as miserable as you are?

          • pud

            I answered no but I went on to explain to you that “beliefs” don’t matter..what comports with reality matters. Stupid irrational “beliefs” don’t get a pass from critique nor should they. Religion is the mother of bad ideas. Of course you will “turn me off” I challenge your delusional “reality” and you are defenseless so your only cowardly reaction is to stone the heretic. I pointed out very clearly how repugnant this story/essay/praise the lord session was and why it was nothing but tripe. You failed to argue against my points and instead offered up more nonsensical babble. “Turn me off” I don’t care…I won.

          • SJ

            Here is something that comports with reality:

            You reap what you sow.

            In the case of non-Christian nations they don’t sow to God obediently because they are descended from the children of Noah that didn’t continue to honor God though a few descendants of the Nephilim were still around after the Flood, too.

            This reap what you sow concept is found in other religions like Buddhism so they must have had access to Hebrew ideas at one time but they could have thrown off God’s Ways and invented Buddhism instead when they branched out around the world. We know the Chinese at one time worshipped Shang Di which some people believe is the Christian God just with a Chinese name but Confucianism came along and replaced Shang Di even though the Chinese emperors were still associated with him.

            So if your ancestors didn’t obediently reap what God told them to sow and if they live in demonic strongholds they could be reinforcing natural demonic influences against themselves from poor upbringings and teachings.

            Didn’t you know Hinduism has kundalini spirits and some charismatics are reporting it as an evil spirit.

            Some people claim India’s Brahmins came out of Abraham. Note the similarity of the names Brahmin and Abraham but somehow they moved away from Abraham’s ways which were God’s Ways. You see this alot around the world in past history as well as today. People evolving away from God’s Ways. You have to actively seek to know the God of the bible to more fully know God and His Ways.

            We know that science could only evolve from a Christian worldview. Without certain Christian ideas we could never have developed science. Polytheism actually frustrated the development of science.

            Only the monotheistic world view paved the road to a scientific worldview.

            Galileo famously talked about the “book of nature”, that scientists try to read, being written by God. This is possible because both God and man have a similar mind. If you read a book, you think you can understand the author because you speak the same language and your mind works in an analoguous way. Galileo also said that the book of nature is written in mathematical language.

            Christianity Gave Birth to Science

            Now don’t forget what I believe I told you in the past: You are important to God so be sure and be a true seeker.

            A lot of people cut their children off from God’s blessing because they simply refuse to honor God and train them up in the way they should go.

            Haven’t you ever noticed? The Christian countries all live in the most freedom. Christ sets us free to do all kinds of things. God never said we couldn’t use our minds it is just we have to know right from wrong and use them in the right way and honor God. Our God does intend us to go to heaven you know.

            Fortunately, God still issues an invitation to anyone around the world today to follow his Son. Some people accept the invitation. Some people don’t for various reasons.

          • pud

            You are clearly either insane, delusional or grossly ignorant.

            The most prosperous nations on earth are secular. Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Switzerland, Germany etc are the top nations on earth to live by every measure and they are the least religiously delusional. Fact. The most impoverished nations..S. America and Africa are also the most delusionally religious and superstitious. So you do not know what you’re talking about which is not surprising.

            Science came about during the Enlightenment when the theocratic psychopaths of the “church” lost their hold on power to men of reason. The dark ages were what your kind brought humanity.

            There was no world wide flood. Your “noah” was an incestious drunkard and the rest of your ridiculous myth would be better served in a Harry Potter book placed in the fiction section.

            I don’t accept invitations from psychopathic genocidal celestial dictators.

            There is no such thing as heaven, hell or any of the other nonsense you’ve been so cruelly indoctrinated with.

          • pud

            PS…going to “heaven” your mythical place in the sky to sing songs of praise morning noon and night to stroke the ego of your psychopathic genocidal “god” for all of eternity…would be worse than any hell you could imagine. Tell me how your typical day would be after the 1st billion years of this slavery.

          • SJ

            Those secular nations you name don’t owe their current prosperity to secularism….they were all Christian nations at one time. Some people even claim the Lost Tribes of Israel populated those nations in addition to populating several European Christian nations.

            So you are a fail on world history.

            Google J..H. Allen’s work online called The Sceptre and the Birthright.

            I’m sick of your delusions about science, too….A lot of the greatest scientists were Christians, too. Gallilieo wrote a book explaining how the Biblical worldview led to science.

            Even one of the great scientists behind the evolutionary synthesis was a Christian.

            You need to leave this board until you are willing to see the light and that most likely is going to require you to repent and be baptized.

            Because if you stay all we’re going to engage in is a huge cherrypicking war….where you bring up bad historical examples to support atheism and I raise you better examples that demolish your’s….

            So you better quit before all your false illusions are demolished… are now in dangerous waters where you might have to become a believer on purely scientific and historical grounds.

            Leave while your false delusions of atheistic grandeur are still intact.

            But don’t forget John 3:16…..”For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten son that whosoever believeth on him should not perish but have everlasting life.”

            ” The world ” part….it includes you….don’t forget…..

            Repent and be baptized….while there is still time before the imminent Second Coming, ok….just consider it for a good long while and pray to the Holy Spirit for enlightenment before responding….Thank you and God Bless!

    • Robert Driskell

      If you had the tiniest bit of understanding, you would realize how you strip the words of the Bible out of their context and then think you understand them…when, in reality, you simply sound like an angry child. Every bit of hurt, pain, heartache, etc. is the result of people who have rejected God’s love and leadership and persist in following whatever their corrupted minds imagine. If you REALLY care at all about those of whom you write, you would fall on your face before God, repent of your sins, and ask Him for forgiveness. Moralizing, while rejecting the One who is the source of love, is a useless endeavor. (I’ve read enough of your posts to realize that none of this matters to you…but it should).

      • pud

        I’m glad you read my posts!

        • Robert Driskell

          So am I

      • pud

        As for falling down on my face before a “god” and begging him not to torture me for eternity…which “god” do you suggest? Is one better than another? How do you know? You see, the fact of the matter is you have been indoctrinated into a cult. You have swallowed a book written by bronze age barbarians about an evil vengeful wrathful capricious tempermental juvenile celestial dictator and you’re brainwashed into cherry picking happy verses and making excuses for all the rest. You “believe” you do not know and you don’t care to know. You’ve abandoned your critical thinking skills and reasoning ability in favor of a bizarre fairy tale that perversely throws around the word “love” while revering human sacrifice! How psychologically disturbed is that?

        • Robert Driskell

          Everything in the universe (including the universe) only makes sense in a biblical worldview, any other view is simply a perversion of the truth. Therefore, it would be wise to embrace the biblical worldview (although you do have to make your own choices). It is you that has been decieved, sir (or maam) into believing the ridiculous idea that everything (including you and I) came into existence by some unintelligent, random event (or events). It takes more faith to believe that than it does to believe an intelligent, all-powerful Creator did it. But, if one can somehow convince himself, or herself, that this Creator does not exist (which usually mean, at best, simply brainwashing oneself) then it is much easier to live as if we have no one to Whom we are accountable. It is you who have “abandoned your critical thinking skills” and, what’s worse, you ignore your conscience…the one thing that continues to nag at you as a witness that you are indeed guilty before a holy God. One more little thing, this holy God loves you and He won’t stop tugging at your heart until He decides to. You are worth it to Him.
          [I just reread your post and wanted to ask you who told you God ‘tortures’ people for eternity?]
          Yours in Christ,

          • pud

            No. You are delusional. Nothing makes sense in light of your book of myth. Rational people do not “believe” anything. They follow where the evidence leads. There is NO evidence for anything in your book of fables. There was no global flood, no exodus, no moses, no burning bushes, no men in the belly of a whale. That sir is made up nonsense that children wouldn’t buy into. The Universe is eternal and I can prove it to you. Nature does nothing but recycle matter and we are the product of nature. We are the product of chemistry, biology and physics and that is a fact that I can demonstrate. You sir can demonstrate nothing…that’s why you call it “faith” and “belief” rather than “knowing” or “knowledge”

            Hell is your gods creation for perpetual torment…I however consider your imaginary heaven to be worse. I’d beg for hell after a billion or trillion years of endlessly praising your egotistical deity and hanging out with daffy christians.

          • Dave Willis

            All people, rational or otherwise, believe everything. Evidence is merely data and requires interpreting. If you have a college-level scientific education then you must know who Max Planck is:

            “Anybody who has been seriously engaged in scientific work of any kind realizes that over the entrance to the gates of the temple of science are written the words: Ye must have faith. It is a quality which the scientist cannot dispense with.”
            –Max Planck, Where Is Science Going? (1932)

            Also, if you believe the universe is eternal then I would point you to the Second Law of Thermodynamics which deals with entropy within a system, specifically how entropy increases over time.

          • pud

            I would point out to you that “faith” is the opposite of “knowledge”

            I would point out to you the 1st law of thermodynamics which states matter and energy can neither be created or destroyed only transformed from one to the other…eternal matter.

            I would point out to you that the 2nd law does not apply to the universe…it only applies to systems where one entity loses energy to another. The universe has no other entity to lose energy to or gather energy from. It is immune to the 2nd law

          • Dave Willis

            You’re wrong about faith and knowledge being opposites. You’re wrong about matter being eternal and you’re wrong about the Second Law of Thermodynamics applying to the universe’s subsystems and not the total system that is the universe.

            I can make unsupported claims too you know. But this is as close to a pissing contest as I’m going to get with you. If you don’t want to listen there’s nothing you can do to make yourself willing to listen.

          • pud

            I am not wrong.

            The words “belief” and “faith” would never be used if you had “Knowledge” You would say “I know” not “I believe”

            Matter and energy cannot be destroyed per the 1st law..look it up…therefore they are eternal

            The 2nd law is dependent upon a system being open or closed….There is no other system “outside” of the one universe

          • SJ

            We have knowledge….we pass from belief to knowledge.

            God even says the only activity he respects is that a person knows Him in Jeremiah 9.

            We stand on a rock when we stand on Christ and there is nothing ephemeral about a rock.

          • pud

            No. Your book says that not any god. You make the leap of faith to that assumption wrongly. We do not go from gullible “belief” to knowledge you either naively “believe” or you seek actual knowledge

          • SJ

            We have knowledge. The scriptures are God’s revelation about Himself and people so we can get to know Him. Getting to know someone is both progressive and constantly revealing.

            For example, you meet a woman then you learn more about her then as time progresses you learn more and more. That is progressive revelation….there are plenty of periods where you’re stumped and have to go on the barest knowledge still over time you know more and more.

            You need to find the repented Christians….they have more knowledge than the unrepented Christians and they give the more detailed testimonies about what God did for them.

            Some people call it brokenness….Now how did they experience God fixing their brokenness if It didn’t happen? He’s not obtrusive or obnoxious but He’s around.

            The bible is like a mirror you know….some people get offended when they look in the mirror and launch into denial…..other people take God seriously when he says examine yourself and they let Him work with them on what they’ve got….

          • pud

            I meet a “real” woman then learn more about her as time progresses….I don’t meet an imaginary woman written about in a book. See the difference?

          • SJ

            Never will….

            Please don’t post any further. I am a stone cold believer. I don’t plan on ever recanting so you are wasting your time and you need to seek out your own kind if you need self validation.

            No one is agreeing with you here but there is an atheist channel for you to participate in.

          • pud

            Proves that you have no interest in ever knowing any truth what so ever. Anyone sworn to a position is truly a lost soul. I don’t care that you agree and I’ll post all I want.

          • SJ

            Lol….ok Mr. Fish Out of Water…..

            Someday you’ll see the light….I will say a prayer for you in the meantime.

          • pud

            You make the ultimate “unsupported” claim…”god exists” even worse you make the “claim” that “your” particular god exists.

            There are only two possible answers to this question…either a god exists or it does not. If it does not then there’s nothing to talk about. If it does it is incumbent upon you to demonstrate that it manifests itself in reality in some detectable way. (that does not include testimony, visions, personal experiences or hearsay} It means in a demonstrable testable way. If you cannot do this (and you can’t and no one ever has for any god claim) then your god does not manifest itself in reality and is therefore indistinguishable from non existence. Get it? All your woo woo “feelings” or dreams or testimonials or holy books or made up causation (like god finding your car keys for you) are not testable demonstrations of any god existing in reality. To “believe” anything that fails to adhere to this criteria is delusional. Game Set Match

          • Robert Driskell

            Referencing YOUR statement: “There are only two possible answers to this question…either a god exists or it does not. If it does not then there’s nothing to talk about.” Going by this theory, you believe God exists…because you can’t stop talking about Him. Methinks you protest too much.

            Yours in Christ,

          • pud

            I don’t talk about “Him” I talk about your cult and your delusional beliefs. Why don’t you take a crack at disproving what I just wrote?

          • Robert Driskell

            I’ve seen countless people respond to your putdowns and mocking. I’m not going to be one of them. There are plenty of apologetics books and websites for you to look at, if you REALLY wanted answers. Your heart is hard, you’re mad at God, and you simply want to lash out at anyone who doesn’t agree with your opinions. You refuse to believe the evidence that surrrounds you and instead choose to cling to the bankrupt idea that nothing created everything. I mean, who could argue with logic like that? Wake up, before it’s too late.
            Yours in Christ,

          • Jack Wellman

            Game, Set, Match? You said you’ve listened to every apologist alive!? Let me repeat that..that’s over 46,000 that I know of (at last count) so how old are you? Do yourealize how long that would take? You say that if there was “evidence” then everyone on earth would be a Baptist or a Lutheran or a Muslim. There is concrete evidence that there are bank robbers, so based upon your logic, then
            everyone on earth would be a bank robber! Wow. No, not a “Match.” Sorry.

          • Robert Driskell

            If you persist in your rebellion against God, you will receive what you request…eternity in hell, separated from any semblance of love. I pray you reconsider.

          • pud

            Think for a moment about how repugnant your statement is…Obey the celestial dictator or suffer for eternity. How could you possibly “believe” such nonsense let alone “worship” such a being who is so wicked as to inflict torture infinitely beyond any which any human being would do to any living creature? It is a tyrant you insecure evil vile meglomanical psychopath. Love him or else! Compulsory love or else! Obey or else!

            It is absolutely absurd to even posit a timeless creator of the universe that could be this malignant, petty, trite and vain.

            You can “pray’ till the cows come home but it’s been scientifically shown that there is no such thing as a prayer being answered by any god ever. How come yours won’t heal amputees?

          • SJ

            The Catholics do have a recorded case on a Spaniard peasant’s amputed leg being healed.

            Plus Jesus healed lepers…It says he healed ten and only 9 thanked him and lepers lose fingers, toes, noses, etc.

            But why should God be anybody’s bell hop. He can have a rule that after people’s bodies pass a certain point it is time for them to go to the next life.

            This is a temporary life and He promises people a better life with a better body.

            It’s like this life is a mold for a cast and you are complaining when the cast breaks down…..the cast breaking down is inevitable….it is only temporary….

            It makes no sense for you to argue with people who agree with God that this lifetime is a temporary period and a segue into a better life.

          • pud

            Catholics are batshit crazy..they have made all manner of ridiculous claims none of which have ever held up.

            Jesus never “healed” anyone or anything…people who wrote your silly book “said” he did along with an enormous amount of other ridiculous things. In addition…”IF” jesus healed a few lepers, why didn’t he cure leprosy? What would you think of a Dr.who had a cure for ebola but only cured 9 people and withheld the cure from humanity?

            You are not thinking. Turn your brain on!

          • SJ

            Arguing religion is lame when you can go out and personally poll believers on their experiences.

            I know from just comparing my attitude now as a believer to my earlier pre- baptismal state that my life is better and freer.

            It’s the people I know who have weak beliefs or no belief who seem to be the most moody and depressed.

            The more a believer believes the happier and steadier and saner he is.

            So I just laugh at people trying to talk unbeliever foolishness to me.

            Wiki gratitude. Believers are grateful to God and gratitude is good for human mental health. It is bad to feel hopeless all the time.

            Who goes around promoting hopelessness….it’s like promoting a mental problem….it is not a rational position to hold and act on.

          • pud

            “Experiences” are not reality. Lots of people “experience” alien abductions, is their “experience” to be taken seriously?

          • SJ

            What? All experiences are an individuals’s reality.

            What ever gave you the right to equate a person claiming an alien abduction with a believer’s experience?

            Next you’ll be saying swimming is like riding a bike or parachuting from an airplane.

            They are all different….you’re just determined to ridicule people so you assign erroneous value judgments to things you haven’t even experienced yourself.

            You might as well tell someone vanilla tastes like chocolate if you never tasted either because that is what you are doing.

          • pud

            All experiences are by definition 1st person. They may or may not comport to reality. Those “claiming” alien abduction have just as much validity as those “claiming” they talk to angels and jesus. Neither can produce any objective evidence so it is just babbling about “perceived” exeperiences

          • SJ

            You can’t force someone to see your perspective.

            Walk A Mile

          • pud

            That’s true. You can’t make anyone “believe” anything. They have to come to understanding on their own but they need the facts to do so..not hearsay, not “testimony” not an ancient book, not their neighbor speaking in tongues claiming the lord found her a better job.

          • SJ

            Well I’m not buying your hopelessness…

            God helps me all the time….cya….

          • pud

            cya! You get squat from fantasy land. Stay stuck in your delusional world and your false hope. Reality is awesome!

          • Robert Driskell

            So, you don’t believe any ‘testimony’? Are you claiming to have personally experience everything you believe? The civil war? Abraham Lincoln? Pud, you are simple spouting empty blather in order to express your anger and hatred (don’t say different either, a first grader can discern it in your tone) towards God…even as you attempt to deny Him. The Bible says that eventually every knee will bow before Him…some will bow in loving worship, some will bow when they realize they were wrong to rebel against Him. We each have the choice to make. I pray that you will stop your foolish tirade against the God you say you don’t believe exists and begin to live the life for which you were created. Yours in Christ,

          • pud

            You can’t express “tone” in written words on a screen. I don’t “believe” anything that cannot be demonstrated. Personal testimony is not evidence it is opinion. Everything you and your cult blather is opinion. You can show nothing. Belief in unicorns and Hanuman the monkey god is just as viable as believing in the spooks you believe in.

          • Robert Driskell

            Well, I choose to reject YOUR opinion, pud. (By the way, your ‘tone’ is coming through loud and clear). Your comments show that you think that your opinions trump all others. You make objective statements as if everyone must bow to YOUR beliefs and opinions. You are as cultish as you claim others are, you simply belong to the cult of “self”. You think YOUR ideas are right and everyone else is wrong…talk about close-minded. I’ve seen plenty of people share the good news of Jesus Christ and God with you, I’ve seen your reaction to them, and I can only hope (for your sake, not mine) that you eventually see the foolishness of your stubborn humanism and worship God. See you around, pud.
            Yours in Christ,

          • Jack Wellman

            True and well said Robert. Pud once told me that he doesn’t believe in anything on another article of mine so how, I told him, can we expect to believe anything he says since he doesn’t believe in anything which is false since he must believe in his own opinion…and that is something, isn’t it, even though its wrong. The truth sets you free or it makes you really mad.

          • pud

            Who goes around promoting make believe? Cowards

          • Robert Driskell


            You have invented agod that doesn’t exist (which is what you accuse me of doing) and then you proceed to rail against this god’s unfairness. Let me tell you a little secret: I wouldn’t worship the god you describe either. But, the God of the Bible is nothing like what you portray. You take certain verses and passages and twist them into something easy for you to attack (heard of ‘strawman’?). The God of the Bible, the one true God, loves you (even though you continue to lash out at him) and He will not stop reaching out to you until a time He decides. Hopefully someday you will realize that truth.
            Yours in Christ,

          • pud

            I’ve invented no such thing but if I were to invent a god I could do a far far better job than the bronze age cultists did with yours. My god wouldn’t endorse slavery, my god would have a commandment against rape and would eliminate the 4 that just stroke his ego…for starters.

            You can make all the “claims” you want about your invisible deity but if you can’t show it, you don’t know it. And if you don’t know it then you can only believe it and if you simply believe anything then you are a gullible fool

    • Dave Willis

      Why are you here? You seem to be interested only in verbose, vitriolic venting.

      Anyway, I thought I’d clear up a misunderstanding in your views for anyone who might come along and read it. You talk about children being innocent and having no fault; about what an injustice it is for a loving God to allow a child to suffer and die. This is a modern ideal not based in reality. When a child dies, there is no injustice. Every child that has ever been or will ever be born deserves death for the selfishness in their hearts. There are no exceptions. We are all born completely and utterly selfish. If we all deserve to die, what room then is there to be angry with God when we get what we deserve? If we receive anything other than death at any moment it is a mercy to us, given by grace and not by merit. Thus the expression “There but for the grace of God go I.”

      Your issue with the instructions in Deuteronomy are a similar misunderstanding. If a man finds that he has cancer he doesn’t say to himself “all cells have a right to express themselves in whatever way they see fit” but rather he has a doctor cut them out because the life of the cancer cells will be at the expense of the life of the whole body. So the mistake you make is in thinking that the life of the individual is paramount and intrinsically valuable. Individuality leads to death, not life, because we are a body. Not whole in and of ourselves but members of a whole.

      I say these things knowing that if your heart is hard, as it seems to be, then you cannot hear them. Like everyone, you are completely unable to change your own mind and believe something you do not believe. You are unable to make the hate and anger, which are fruits of selfishness, go away. This is because your will is not free. You cannot turn to God because you do not want to turn to God and cannot make yourself willing. Realizing this, however, is a big step toward enlightenment.

      • pud

        I am here to point out to anyone who will read my words just how repugnant your cult is. Any human being who could honestly say “Every child that has ever been or will ever be born deserves death for the selfishness in their hearts.” (as you just did) needs to be locked up under medical supervision and never allowed near a child. A baby can’t be “selfish” because it has no sense of self only a will to survive…like all living things.

        There is no “god” to turn to…this is your entirely made up nonsense. This is what you’ve been indoctrinated to “believe” There have been 10,000 “gods” in human history and one by one they all have been retired. Yours will be no exception to this rule.

        Enlightenment comes from knowledge not from a higher degree of “belief” in something nonsensical and imaginary.

        Tell me …which “god”would you be groveling to had you been born in Saudi Arabia or Mumbai India?

        • Dave Willis

          What is it that compels you to point out to anyone who will read your words how much you revile their beliefs? Why do you think being hateful toward people who didn’t even engage you is a good thing to do? Have you asked yourself why you feel this way? Have you tried to stop feeling the way that you feel? If you do you will see that you are unable to stop and then things will get interesting for you.

          Do you have children? My son just turned one last week. I can assure you that he, and all children, are as selfish as anyone can be. He thinks of nothing but himself. He gets mad if he doesn’t get his way. Children have to be taught to think of others. It doesn’t come naturally. The will to survive is itself selfish. What could be more selfish than self-preservation? It’s right there in the word.

          Enlightenment does come from knowledge and there is knowledge here to be found for any with the will to seek it and the aptitude to understand it. “We do speak wisdom among those who are mature.”

          I can’t tell you which “god” I would be groveling to if I had been born a different person because in that case I would be a different person whom I have never been. What I can tell you is that it was through no choice of my own that I came to worship the true God. He chose me in spite of me to suit His own purposes and all I can do is be thankful that I am no longer headed toward the death I deserve for my selfishness. I was dead and He has made me alive.

          • pud

            Don’t put emotion in my words..that is dishonest. I do not hate anyone but I hate all bad ideas and religion is the mother of all bad ideas.

            A child being “selfish” is how they survive and get their needs met. It does not make them malicious, evil or worthy of death as you so grossly put it

            If your god needs you to fulfill a “purpose”then he is not omnipotent..he is needy. He would not be all knowing nor all powerful if he had wants, desires, needs. Think man! Use your head! The rational critically thinking one not the brainwashed indoctrinated one the cult you belong to has implanted

          • Dave Willis

            “What utter self absorbed hogswallop!”

            “…amazingly repugnant your pitiful little story is…”

            “You sick self absorbed delusional psychotic.

            The Jews are just as delusional as you are.”

            “…your sick warped demented self absorbed repugnant praise of some invisible non existent deity…”

            “How can anyone be so perverted, twisted, warped, deranged and completely self absorbed as you? How can you possibly put your meaningless trite insignificant problems in the same league as those starving to death?

            You are a disgrace!”

            “Your “questions” were incoherent and nonsensical. Had nothing to do with your perverted world view and the crap presented in this disgraceful disgusting hands raised speaking in tongues self centered wicked essay…”

            “You are clearly either insane, delusional or grossly ignorant.”

            “You’ve abandoned your critical thinking skills and reasoning ability in favor of a bizarre fairy tale that perversely throws around the word “love” while revering human sacrifice! How psychologically disturbed is that?”

            “You are delusional.”

            This is just a cursory overview of some of your more explicit statements and doesn’t even touch on all the sarcasm you’ve used. So how am I being dishonest? Those are hateful words if there ever were any. So, again, what is it that compels you to point out to anyone who will read your words how much you revile their beliefs? Why do you think being hateful toward people who didn’t even engage you is a good thing to do? Have you asked yourself why you feel this way? Have you tried to stop feeling the way that you feel?

            As for children being selfish, how often does a child’s selfishness actually have an impact on their needs being met? Almost never. I would provide for my son just the same if he were completely selfless. Selfishness is not only evil and malicious, it’s the source of all evil. And what makes you think that if God were omniscient or omnipotent he wouldn’t have goals or plans? What kind of sense does that make?

            I’m the one thinking rationally here. You’re firing from the gut.

          • pud

            Don’t hate the writer I hate what she so ignorantly wrote

          • Dave Willis

            Your words tell a different story…

          • pud

            You can put whatever inflection you want in written words. My original comment on the topic was one of abject contempt for the myopic, repugnant lavishing of undeserved praise on your invisible deity and the total self absorbed nature of the post. I stand by that. You can read whatever you want into my words …what you should be doing is paying attention to the content not the delivery

          • Dave Willis

            I pay attention to all aspects of a person’s communication. You attacked what was written as well as the people who wrote. Even if your hate had not been directed at any specific people it would still be hate. I think it’s clear that the people you have spoken hatefully toward are just proxies for your hate for a god you say you don’t believe in.

          • pud

            I don’t hate santa claus, the easter bunny and I don’t hate any of the 10,000 gods men have invented

          • Dave Willis

            How often do you berate little children for believing in Santa Claus though?

          • pud

            I would hope you can see the ridiculousness of this question. Children do not vote and they are not adults capable of reason. What they “believe” doesn’t affect the world. Oddly, once they can reason they don’t “believe” in invisible men watching them 24/7 and keeping score on their behavior….kind of like your god eh?

          • Dave Willis

            The ridiculousness of my question is in direct proportion to the ridiculousness of your statements. My point being, you put God and Santa Claus on the same level but you’re only full of hate toward one of them. Why? If a child grew into an adult and continued to believe in Santa Claus it would be because he was mentally handicapped. Would you revile and attack him? If what you say is true then all who believe in God must be mentally handicapped the same way. Do you commonly insult and ridicule people with Downs Syndrome?

            Or are you perhaps not being honest with yourself about your true motivations?

          • pud

            They are on the same level so far as their existence is concerned. Santa, although being a peeping Tom like your god, never wiped out humanity and he only withholds toys for disobedience rather than serving up eternal torture.

            Adults that were mentally impaired and still believed in Santa would get my sympathy…adults who are not mentally impaired who still believe in invisible beings, who vote and knock on doors seeking converts to their cult and who seek to impose their version of reality on everyone with bible and sword…well, they get my contempt and resistance

            You don’t have “downs syndrome” but you are infected with the “god virus”…good news though..there is a cure! Reason!

          • pud

            I’d further argue that Santa is far more worthy than your god of our admiration. Santa only brings joy and good tidings. He doesn’t demand praise all day long. He’s happy and jolly not angry and egotistical. Santa doesn’t endorse slavery (I think the elves get pay with benefits) nor does he demand that you stone disbelievers. Santa doesn’t care what you do in the privacy of your bedroom or with whom he only cares if you’re naughty or nice. Clearly Santa respects you more than your god does and has a far more stable personality.

          • pud

            Oh, and Santa didn’t sacrifice himself to himself so he could forgive you for your wickedness and he has no plans to destroy the world again.

          • SJ

            Here is God saying the world will never be destroyed again in Genesis 9:

            8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 “I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you—the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you—every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth.”

            12 And God said, “This is the sign of the covenant I am making between me and you and every living creature with you, a covenant for all generations to come: 13 I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth. 14 Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds, 15 I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life. 16 Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth.”

            17 So God said to Noah, “This is the sign of the covenant I have established between me and all life on the earth.”

            Who Can Compare to You, Matt Stinton

          • pud

            No. Your “god” did not say anything. Men whose names no one even knows wrote a book saying that your god said this or that. This is commonly known as heresay. It is as far away from credibility as you can get. There was no global flood and it can be proven. There was no drunken incestious sailor named Noah. The world was not repopulated by one family starting over on a planet scoured to bedrock. There was no Ark nor did a million species of animals walk back to Patagonia and Australia afterwards. You would appear less credulous and silly if you said you believe in Santa Claus

          • pud

            Further…Even if I let you slide on this you would be insane to worship a being who promises not to wipe out humanity after he just wiped out humanity. That would be so pathological as to require hospitalization and psychiatric intervention. It would akin to joining the new Nazi party because Hitler said he changed his ways. Your entire narrative is beyond belief. No rational person could possibly believe such nonsense let alone willingly subscribe to it AND worship and praise the monster who just killed every living thing save a few.

          • SJ

            No you need to study what was happening when God sent the flood….the world was at an extremely high level of evil…..what if all the people wiped out were incapable of not being evil….

            Why do you always want to make a holy God evil….people are evil….God isn’t…

          • pud

            Baby deer fawns, infant children, plants, insects and tiny minnows are not and were not evil. Tell me why your all powerful deity couldn’t have devised a way of communicating with the evil ones such that he didn’t have to wipe the face of the earth clean. Is he not capable? or did he enjoy the slaughter like so many other chapters in your wicked book?

            I’ll remind you again…there never was a global flood. You have to be mind boggling credulous to actually believe this.

          • SJ

            You’re not going to listen to anything anyone on this board explains to you…..

            I can tell by the number of posts that you just posted that you have prejudged God and set your heart and mind against Him and closed like a hardened popcorn seed that refuses to respond to the light and pop open and manifest the nature of God even though you are made in the image of God.

            It’s perversion when you are made in the image of God yet refuse to manifest His nature.

          • pud

            There is no “god” and surely not your version. All “gods” are man made in mans image. All 10,000 “gods” that have ever been including yours are man made. Yours is no different than any that were “believed” in for the last 100,000 years. Every human being who has ever lived and “believed” in a god “believed” exactly as you do. Exactly. They were all apologists for their “god” all twisted logic and reason to make their myth “believable” and they all were just as closed minded and irrational as you.

            Unlike you and your book swallowing hand waving cult I have actually studied the origin of christianity. I know how your cult arose from its Zoro Astrian monotheism roots and good and evil model of the universe. I know how Yahweh came into being and how the culture of the time purposefully created him as their god of war. I know your mythology, the culture from which it arose and I know that nothing you “believe” with all your heart and soul is true. You have been indoctrinated into a cult and you are psychologically incapable of honest investigation and evaluation. I’ve done my homework.

          • pud

            PS…no one here “explains” all assert things, regurgitate things, cite scripture as if some stenographer from CNN was there writing it all down word for word. You do not offer “explanations” you offer claims and a poisoned chalice of willful slavery to a celestial dictator. You are sheep. You follow where you are led. You do not ask critical questions. You have forsaken your critical faculties. You forsake reason and logic and common sense. If any human being came to you with a similar outrageous narrative you would think him insane. No sir, you are all matrix pill swallowers and I feel sorry for the lot of you

          • pud

            Your god could cure Ebola yet he withholds it…that is evil. Your god endorses slavery..that is evil. Your god permits suffering…that is evil. Your god commanded genocide…that is evil. Your god endorsed human sacrifice…blood sacrifice…that is evil. If you do not condemn these acts they you sir are just as evil

          • SJ

            You refuse to learn….

            I have a glorious body awaiting me when this one passes away…

            God said upfront in Genesis that the world turned ugly with thorns and pain and pain includes disease….

            If God cures ebola then I have to stay in this old body while it ages and mechanically breaks down….

            I want my new body….it will be indestructible…

            Do you think I want to live forever with a bunch of evil, cranky people who have ungodly, immoral, evil characters?

            Genocide doesn’t even apply to God.

            Can Hitler or Pol Pot or Jong Il Kim or Stalin raise anyone?

            No they can’t…..but God says He will raise everyone in the future so death is a temporary condition that Christ will put under his feet later. The last curse is death…..

            Anyone that bucks God in this lifetime is an idiot….because he forfeits his shot at making the first resurrection….but he will be raised at the Great White throne and every knee that didn’t bow in this life will bow at that one…..only these will be the ingrates….the people who didn’t even tell Jesus thank you for what he did for them….they were too caught up in their own selfish lives to tell their Lord and Savior who saved them from death thank you.

          • pud

            For the last time credulous one….Your “god” said NOTHING! Men whose names will never be known had visions! and wrote down fables and stories! It’s not real! It’s a made up story like every religion that has ever existed! Wake up man!

          • SJ

            I’m the real truth seeker….I know all about how evil and weak people are and I know how great God is.

            I’ve spent a lot of time in the real world and in the bible and the bible is a mirror.

            You are the evidence denier with a hardened heart. Most likely your only shot now is to call out to God and ask Him to grant mercy and give you the gift of repentance or you will be on the bottom order for all eternity and everyone at the top of God’s social order will know that instead of deifying Christ that you defied him.

            It’s one thing to be ignorant but quite another to be willfully ignorant.

            Read this short essay:

            If God Could Save Everyone, Would He?

            I don’t believe hell fire is literal….I think it is spiritual for purification purposes so you could be spending thousand of years getting purified in the next life when you could have submitted and been made holy and set apart in this lifetime.

          • pud

            You “believe” too many things and know too little.

          • SJ

            Don’t forget….God is waiting for your call….you’re important to Him….He understands….we all struggle with spiritual blindness….read Rev. 6…even believers need their blind eyes anointed….

          • pud

            The last thing I’ll ever read again is the most psychotic book in your mythological volume of nonsense

            You listen to just this one critical examination of a book written by one of your own then get back to me


          • SJ

            I’m long past wasting my time on atheistic books….I’m a believer so I am joined to God …the church is the Bride of Christ.

            Why would I voluntarily seek a lesser status in God’s eyes?

            I’ve always been a prudent person….I try not to follow people who lack common sense or make bad choices in life.

            Why consult people who failed to pass God’s tests when there are lots of people around passing His tests….Christ died and rose to make a winner out of me….not for me to fall for weak arguments and regress in my social conduct….I want to be an overcomer like Christ.

            I’ve always identified with Christ and his disciples….they are the biggest group of super successful people that the world has ever seen. So I identify with them….I know confident success when I meet it.

          • pud

            Not a single thing that you “claim” or “believe” do you actually “know” That’s the nature of cults. Have a good day

          • SJ

            Get a copy of The Apologetic of Jesus by Geisler and Zukeran….it explains how God did provide evidence.

          • pud

            No. I’ve listened to every apologist alive and they are all equally ridiculous. If there was “evidence” then everyone on earth would be a Baptist or a Lutheran or a Muslim. I want you to do yourself a favor…pick any one of these videos by Steve Shives where his goes through chapter by chapter popular apologetic books….just commit to watching one series and then get back to me…


            No rational person could examine any of your cults books and ever take them seriously again

          • SJ

            Sir, I have actually been touched by God and have had good and evil spirits fight over me.

            Believe me, I am one of the people least prone to hallucinations….I have struggled against being overly carnal my whole life and if God will touch me then I know He exists 100 hundred percent.

            I have had so many revelatory experiences since I did like Peter and got out of the boat it would take me a long time to sit down and number them all.

            Derek Prince confirms this….when you actually try to serve God is when you actually encounter more supernatural phenomena….it could be you have to seek to be in God’s ingroup to know things more than others.

            The bible says each is saved in his own order.

            I always seek to prove God exists while you only seek to disprove Him so who do you think He is going to reward with a personal touch or favor? You could be displeasing Him but He’s a forgiver so you can call out to Him in prayer….that way you will be seeking in the right direction and not offending God by your disloyalty.

            He’s already set the world up along certain laws both physical and spiritual but some people only tap into the physical laws while others tap into both…..

          • pud

            If you got on a bus and there was a guy sitting across the aisle from you speaking to “god” Would you move closer to him or further away? I’m sorry that you are mentally ill. I hope you get help

          • SJ

            Prayer is speaking to God….Of course, some people pray to the wrong God.

            And you are on your own now.

            Christ said you are with me or you’re against me.

            You haven’t made God’s case so you are in the devil’s camp.

            You better cry out to God before the devil does you a mischief….Of course, he might wait….you have already bottomed yourself for all eternity by siding with him even if it is involuntary on your part.

            But you’ll find out later.

            Cya….I have things to do and more socially polite people to meet with.

          • pud

            No, “prayer” is speaking to yourself in your head. Tell me how you know your “god” is the right god and everyone elses “god” is the wrong “god” You don’t You are indoctrinated in your particular cult hook line and sinker. You cannot critically think and don’t care to. Show me evidence of a “devil” What a completely ridiculous childlike notion

          • SJ

            You are a hard hearted person….very callused.

            If you spoke to me and I didn’t answer does that mean I don’t exist?

            No, but it could mean I didn’t feel like answering or knew if I answered you it would do no good.

            Well God reads hearts and minds and He can know when people are past the state of being able to accept Him.

            Your only recourse if that is your situation is to call out to Him.

            Prayer is one of the ways believers call out to God. Read Elijah….God responded.

            Locate the others in the bible who confirm God responded like Hezekiah.

            In Elijah’s case God responded while the devil didn’t respond to the devilish Baal worshippers. They even cut themselves and didn’t get a response proving they were serving a false god.

          • pud

            You don’t need to speak in order for me to know you exist. There are many empirical tests I can use to verify your existence. You have nothing to support the existence of your invisible “god” thing.

            Again..all you do, all you can do, is recite the party line and read from the book. None of that is evidence of the truth of any of your “claims” Saying something is true doesn’t make it so, there are standards we apply to decide truth from fiction and heresay and voices in your head are not among them.

          • SJ

            You’re not thinking deeply on this subject or you’d know a Christian’s testimony is his before and after eye witness evidence.

            A repented Christian can always tell you how evil he was before He allowed God to change him.

            God is a respecter of personhood….He works with people who submit to Him.

            He won’t force you like a rapist into doing something.

            Atheists trying to test God remind me of rapists….Why should a holy being submit to a test? All you are doing by demanding a test is denying His holy sovereignty and power.

            So you’ll find out later because you didn’t have enough patience to think things through on a deeper meditative level now.

            Because by your own attitude you have cut yourself off from access to Him.

            Kings are paid homage and respect….even today people bow to the Queen of England….do you think anyone forces their way into the Queen’s presence making demands?

          • pud

            You’re going to find out later for not “believing” in the “god” of Islam. When you go to muslim hell your skin is burned off only to regrow to be burned off again and again and again. You better repent to Muhammad! 1 billion “believers” can’t be wrong…or could they?

          • Jack Wellman

            I thought you said you don’t believe in anything? Wow…now your a Muslim? Do you believe in Jihad? (so-called “holy” war?”).

          • pud

            No, I am not a member of any cult. It was an example to show how ludicrous her babble was. The muslims make the same claims as you do. There are a billion of them who “believe” just as fervently as you do. They spin the narrative just like you do, believe the most ridiculous superstitious stuff and threaten everyone with fire and brimstone just as you do

          • Robert Driskell

            The exact same thing can be said of your beliefs. You seem to think that, just because you say something, that means it’s true. You don’t really believe that do you? Oh, I forgot, you don’t BELIEVE anything. Pretty tiresome rhetoric.

          • Jack Wellman

            Wow, you’ve listened to every apologist alive!? That’s over 46,000 that I know of (at last count) so how old are you? Do you realize how long that would take? You sa that if there was “evidence” then
            everyone on earth would be a Baptist or a Lutheran or a Muslim. There is
            concrete evidence that there are bank robbers, so based upon your logic, then
            everyone on earth would be a bank robber! Wow.

          • pud

            A literary boast for effect…I’ve listened to more than enough to know the arguments are exactly the same and all exactly without merit. When they argue science they either distort it or don’t even understand what they are talking about. The rest of their arguments boil down to “I believe the bible because the bible says it’s true” or some circular nonsense like that. Post your best 5 and I’ll show you just how wrong you are

            The point about YOU having “evidence” is that if you did and it was true and no one could dispute it…then every human on earth would belong to your particular brand of christian cult.

          • SJ
          • pud

            Your choice….

            Delusional feel good nonsense


            The factual story of your myth….be brave enough to watch


          • SJ

            There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeling accepted. That is a beneficial state for people to live in… would a mammal be able to live if the group didn’t accept him….it would hinder him terribly….

            So you make sure you ask God to change your heart so He can accept you….that way you will be in the ingroup and you will have a much happier life.

            Don’t forget you are important to God….He is probably just waiting for you to call out to Him….then He will move mysteriously in your life ….you’ll see…

            The bible helps alot with interpreting the mysteries….but you must get your spiritual birth….

            Don’t forget you’re important to God….let Him do a miracle and save you….

          • SJ

            You need to get a copy of Virkler’s Four Keys to Hearing God’s Voice….It shows a bit how revelation works through the human facutlies..

            I know people who have received revelations from God so the prophetic gift is still active today in people.

            You’re not used to thinking in God’s terms and science tends to reinforce non-spiritual thinking so all you need to do is to start to deeply meditate on the proper biblical principles and maybe God will start a spiritual root in you if you stop rebelling and listen long enough.

            God can give you all kinds of gifts once you learn to listen to Him respectfully.

          • pud

            No, I don’t need an instruction manual for hearing voices, communicating with the dead, reading palms, using crystals or channeling. Can you test your hypothesis about getting presents from the almighty? Say a double blind study? Maybe you could tell me why we need hospitals if all we needed was instruction on how to request goodies and healing and a better job?

            It is not science vs. religion…It is reason vs. superstition

          • SJ

            You’re an evidence cherry picker.

            Too bad you’re not like Huxley who experimented with drugs because he was honest enough to know he couldn’t know the reality on the outside looking in….He had to enter the experience.

            Christians enter the experience….We go down into the river like it is a watery grave so we can learn to die to self and sin and learn to live toward God like Christ did.

            You can never tap into a spiritual experience…we’re not the testers….we’re the testees…

            Look at God speaking to Job….Job was the testee….and Job was intelligent…He knew to shut up and worship in the presence of greatness.

            You Are My One Thing

            There is no greater love than when someone lays down his life for you. Read John 15.

            Now if you were the only person in the whole world Pud I do believe Christ would have been born and died on the Cross just for you…..but there are billions of people he ingrafted….so He’s the biggest success the world has ever seen and he came to include you in his victory so you will never be lost.

          • pud

            Another example of the perverse “god” you worship out of abject fear. To play a game with “Job” to wager over his loyalty as you inflict him with suffering is the height of evil perversity. Do you enjoy pulling the wings off flies too?

            “Spiritual experience” woo woo…feelings, emotions, like a whipped up bunch of dancers or the whirling Dervish or any cult you can name banging drums and racing around a bonfire.

          • SJ

            Job could be a literal metaphor showing that worldly forces arrayed against humans are Satanic….Job had all the worst things happen to him but he refused to give up and blaspheme God’s name.

            That is an early era overcomer.

            Jesus Christ is the preeminent example of an overcomer….Satan threw everything he had at Yeshua HaMasiach and even touched his person….God didn’t let Satan touch Job because Job belonged to God….

            But Satan touched Jesus through his very own people the Jews to sacrifice him and Yeshua HaMasaich won anyway….He demonstrated his overcoming power by getting out of the grave after this ugly old Satanic world threw everything it had at him.

            It says his face was marred beyond all other faces because not only did they whip and crucify him they stoned him.

            They stoned him verbally and they stoned him physically….and he still persevered and won a victory over them all by getting out of the grave.

            Even if God didn’t possess immense power just for his personal example Jesus Christ is worth following cf. John 16:33….Jesus overcame the world….and his people that aren’t quitters will be overcomers, too.

            Perseverance in the face of death and adversity….that is one of the greatest tests, y’know….

            You can hang with the quitters and complainers all you want…..I know when I saw the real deal in the pages of the bible….some people are just better at sorting truth from lies than other people.

            Atheists can’t tell their @sses from their elbows without testing everything.

            But I have exceptional perception about people and I know God when I see him described in a book.

            That’s all….

            You better start to meditate and use your mind and perception and heart and stop being a boob thinking you have to test everything….

            People who test other people are usually insecure and the insecure tend to be tiresome and get dumped after a while.

          • pud

            There is no such thing as Satan. If you researched this you would know clearly how this mythical entity was a construct of the church. It is not real! It is made up! Any hour long research would prove this to you. But you won’t do it I’m sure. I have.

            You can’t think very much of the “creator of the universe” to imagine that this is how he spent his time can you? Some cosmic petty ridiculous drama.

            You also do not know any of this to be true in the least…you just swallow it whole

          • Robert Driskell

            Well, I guess you’ve proved your point. Simply denying the facts means that they aren’t true. Do you read your own posts? If what you’ve illustrated in your comments is your idea of logic and reasoning, I can see why you have trouble putting together the evidence for God. Fortunately, He loves you enough to break through all the superfluous ‘intellect’ to which you cling and appoint people (like those who are discussing with you) to present the truth. It is still your choice, but the Word of God labels you a fool for persisting in disbelief. (Psalm 53:1, 14:1).
            Yours in Christ,

          • pud

            Tell me how you distinguish “true” from “false” in the real world. How do you separate fact from fiction, claims and opinions from knowing and fact.

            Yours in reality, PUD

          • Robert Driskell

            I use every God given faculty available to me to evaluate evidence and see how it corresponds to reality. And you?

          • pud

            1. No “god” gave you evolved with the senses needed to survive

            2. Define the nature of “evidence” and its layers of credibility and then give me your best 5 non biblical pieces of “evidence” for your specific particular “god”….I dare you to try

          • Robert Driskell

            I would be so very pleased to do that very thing; however, I’ve seen your belittling, mocking, comments long enough to know that you don’t really care at all about what I have to say. You simply want to express your faux superiority, imagined facts, and release the anger you carry around with you. I KNOW why my faith is secure in God. Oh, I forgot, you previously posted that you’ve already “listened to every apologist alive”, so you’ve heard all my evidence before. Your heart is hardened and, until God softens it, you will continue your tirade against Him. But, don’t worry, He can take anything you’ve got. I have nothing more to say to you.
            Yours in Christ,

          • pud

            I was quite certain that you wouldn’t or couldn’t even copy and paste your 5 best pieces of “evidence”

            You have none. I know this for a fact.

            This has nothing to do with superiority and I have no anger towards anyone just yet…lol It has everything to do with demonstrating that your “religion” is nothing but a delusional cult that should have no say in how society is run. You are just one run of the mill cult out of tens of thousands that have come and gone through the ages. I know your history, I know how your god and religion were created, I know and can prove that all your myths are just that.

            You fear me that’s why you will not challenge me

            Yours in Reality and Reason, PUD

          • Robert Driskell

            I don’t fear you, I pity you, pud. You use kindergarten playground tactics and think they belong in academia. Grow up, stop throwing insults long enough to consider what is being said, by yourself and by those with whom you interact…you might actually learn something good.

          • pud

            Then list your 5 top pieces of evidence as to how you know that what you “believe” is true. List them one by one and let’s debate them.

          • Jack Wellman

            Can you give us your 5 scientific eviedences that God does not exist? Nope, not gonna happen.

          • pud

            Sure. I want you first to define terms…

            What does “exist” mean
            What are the attributes of your specific “god”

            I will then show you that it is impossible for your “god” to exist

          • Jack Wellman

            how about give us your best 5 scientific evidences that God doesn’t exist…opps, sorry, can’t do that can you.

          • Dave Willis

            A couple quick things: I don’t vote or knock on doors. I don’t impose my views on anyone. So your beefs are null and void. You are here for the express purpose of imposing your views on others. You said so yourself. How is it that you don’t see your own hypocrisy? Because you are blind to who and what you are.

            You say those who believe in God have a virus; a sickness. Do you castigate all those who are sick? How often have you belittled people with Lupus or HIV? My strong suspicion is that you revile anyone who disagrees with you about anything. I bet you hate people who have different political persuasions from you just the same as you hate those with different spiritual beliefs.

            Face it, pud. You are a hateful person. You hate God and all those who acknowledge Him. Hate in your heart destroys you, not those that you hate. I know because I was once a hateful person too. You are knocking on death’s door and welcoming the hell that you are choosing. Be honest with yourself about the true condition of your heart. Humility is a tough pill to swallow but, once taken, it will set you free. No one can perceive truth until they have first humbled themselves. You say reason is the cure for delusion and in part you are right but it can only cure when coupled with humility. You use your reason dishonestly–to support your pre-existing worldview; that is, your delusion. You haven’t honestly considered all points of view but rather you have used your reason in an attempt to confirm your bias. You try to bend reason to suit your fancy. But reason is the handmaiden of Truth and though you rape her she will never be yours.

            But take heart, friend. You don’t have to live in this hell. Swallow your pride before it destroys you.

          • pud

            Maybe you don’t knock on doors but it is incumbent upon your cult to persuade, con, intimidate or otherwise convert everyone. It is an order from the boss written down in the manual…do you need the verse? This is what makes your cult and other religious cults so dangerous. You seek to undo thousands of years of human struggle to free itself from irrationality and superstition. I resist you.

            I don’t castigate those who through no fault of their own become sick. I do castigate and critique all stupid ideas. No bad idea should ever be off limits from critical analysis and ridicule yet the religious think they should get a pass.

            I don’t hate people that I don’t know…I have contempt for all stupid ideas and all people who seek to impose their will upon others

            I can’t hate “god” because there is no “god” and I’m happy to prove it to you if you like.

            I don’t have any pre-existing worldview as I do not “believe” anything, am not beholden to any dogma, don’t worship any god or book or belong to any organizations of any kind. I go only where the evidence leads and would gladly change any and everything I now accept provisionally should new evidence come to light

            That is the path of a man of reason vs. a man of “faith”

          • Dave Willis

            Here is the core of what I’m hoping to communicate to you:

            You are here doing the very thing you slander and falsely accuse us of doing. What stones can you possibly throw?

            What are you doing if not persuading, conning, intimidating and otherwise trying to convert others to your world view? I would add berating, belittling and bullying as well. I have not done any such thing and you cannot show me any verse that commands such a thing either. Being a fisher of men means letting people see the difference in your life, not assaulting them with your beliefs. Just because some theists beat people over the head with their beliefs, as do some atheists (like you), does not mean that it’s a biblical teaching or a mandate from God. There is nothing dangerous about being honest and humble. Your cult, not the imaginary one you rail against, is dangerous for a similar reason to the one you gave: you seek to undo thousands of years of wisdom and sound teaching by labeling it with derogatory terms and being willfully ignorant of the philosophy you deride.

            Further, you cannot resist me because you are the aggressor. A bully does not resist those that he bullies but rather vice versa. I resist you and all those who would berate me for seeing what they are unable to see with their heads in the sand. If you enjoy your sandy view, fine, but you cannot force me to join you just as I cannot force you to stand upright and see.

            Your issue isn’t with religion; it’s not with God and it’s not with me. Your issue is with your own heart and the selfishness that fills it. Do you understand that contempt is a form of hate? So, by your own admission, you have contempt, i.e. hate, for all people who do the very thing you are here doing–seeking to impose your will on others. I see your true nature clearly because I first saw my own so stop lying to me and yourself about what’s in your heart. Have the courage to own your motivations.

            Now come, let us reason together. I ask for no pass–show me the stupidity of my beliefs and the superiority of yours. You have done nothing but mock and berate and have yet to make any argument. You mock and berate because you have no sound argument to make. Your own words betray you. You say you believe and are beholden to nothing and so make plain your lack of understanding. You believe you are right. You are beholden to the dogma of Scientism because you believe it has true answers even though you don’t understand them. You believe you go where the evidence leads but you only consider evidence that leads where you want to go. Thus the tail wags the dog. What evidence you do consider you consider dishonestly. You presuppose that no evidence could lead to a belief in God and then use this presupposition to excuse your unwillingness to consider all sides. You use your reason to justify your beliefs rather than in an honest pursuit of truth. This is obvious from the way you speak. No one in honest pursuit of truth would be so convinced of their own superiority. The more a man knows the more he sees how much he does not know. So you do not live up to your own ideal of the “man of reason.” You show yourself to be a fraud and liar with every post you make.

            I welcome you to prove that there is no God–I call your bluff. A wise man would know better than to go out on such a limb. Did you think I would be intimidated by the arrogant way you speak and simply concede to you? As if disproving what the majority of all great scientists and philosophers from human history have believed would be a trivial thing for you? Greater men than you have tried and failed. A wise man understands that such a thing cannot be proven or disproven. You, however, jump to the conclusion that because you have seen no talking head floating in the sky there is no evidence for the existence of God. Then you foolishly confuse this perceived absence of evidence with the evidence of absence. But let’s not get in such a hurry to pass by the evidence that exists. I will do the thing you cannot do–I will offer a sound argument: you are capable of rational thought.

            Game. Set. Match.

            What’s that? Not satisfied with that answer? Unwilling to concede the point? I’m unsurprised. I’m not going to spoon feed you but I will point you in the right direction. Read C.S. Lewis’ book “Miracles” for the full explanation. In it he articulates what has come to be known as the “Argument from Reason.” If you are the man of reason that you claim you’ll be able to understand it and if you are the man of integrity that you imply you will read it because it contains evidence that must be considered if one is to have an informed opinion.

            Finally, I will demonstrate that faith and reason are not opposites but complementary. You do, in fact, have faith even if you don’t understand what faith is. You have faith, i.e. you BELIEVE, that reason is able to produce true answers to questions. You have faith, i.e. you BELIEVE, that the inferences you make from your immediate sensations are genuine insights into realities beyond them and not simply how your mind happens to work. This faith is the cornerstone of all science and philosophy. Without it all human knowledge is discredited. The very fact that you would juxtapose the two shows how little you understand of a subject about which you hold such strong and unsupported beliefs. So do yourself a favor and study. Read the great philosophers and thinkers throughout history and do not cherry pick the ones you think will support your existing beliefs. Consider all sides of the argument. Then return with humility and we may discuss the merits of the different philosophies. Until then you are a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

          • pud

            No point addressing all that blather and wrong assumptions on your part.

            If you want me to prove that you are delusional, that “faith” is incompatible with reason and that your god cannot exist I will do that

            Answer me two questions first …

            What does it mean to “exist”…define it

            Define your “god”

            Then I will show you why you are in fact delusional and your invisible deity cannot exist

          • Dave Willis

            Ah yes. Dismiss me. It’s the only tactic you have. If you will not answer me then neither will I answer you.

          • pud

            I am interested in the are interested in my character which is not the subject of this article. Think whatever you want of me personally but that is not the issue. I can settle this with a proof. You only need to clearly define the terms as you use them

          • Jack Wellman

            Well said my friend. Are these detractors fulfilling Romans 1 where they are “suppressing” the knowledge of God when they are really without excuse for they truly know better. I think it true that they love their sin and pride and have worshipped themselves more than the God Who created them and not wanting to give up either.

          • Dave Willis

            I think that’s exactly what’s going on here. There’s nothing new under the sun.

          • pud

            I made the same proposition to you too…I can demonstrate that you are delusional and your imaginary “god” cannot exist…well?

            Define “exist” and list all the characteristics that define your invisible friend and I will prove to you that it does not exist and your “belief” in such is delusional


          • pud

            Rubbish. If you didn’t have a sense of self and a desire to serve yourself you would be a blob on the couch.

          • Dave Willis

            Calling it rubbish doesn’t make it so. Refusing to consider something doesn’t make it go away. Making baseless claims doesn’t help your argument or further the discussion.

            I assert that you are here out of a desire to vent the hate in your heart and nothing anyone can say will have an impact on you. You will argue any point no matter how soundly it has been defeated because you are not here to learn or debate but merely to lash out at a god you say you don’t even believe exists.

            Search your heart, friend. “Know thyself.”

        • SJ

          You came here to make a nuisance out of yourself. If you’re so sure that you are right why don’t you walk into every church in every town in the country you live in and announce what you have been announcing on the Christian Crier.

          You’re just hiding out on the Internet acting out for attention like a three year old who makes a fuss when Mommy is on the telephone.

          • pud

            I post everywhere there is an audience like this that I can find. I speak reason to anyone who will listen. I try to free you from your mental chains wherever I find you.

          • SJ

            In my experience believers are braver than non-believers.

            So all you are doing is trying to argue believers into entering your fear cage mentality.

          • Dave Willis

            You’re not here to free anyone. Freeing people is a selfless act; it requires loving those you wish to set free. You wouldn’t speak so hatefully if you loved the ones to whom you were speaking. Be honest with yourself about what your real motivations are.

          • pud

            I don’t love any of you but I don’t hate any of you either. I have contempt for your theology and delusional world view however and feel sorry for anyone held hostage in a cult

      • Jack Wellman

        Well said Mr. Willis. Pud doesn’t believe in anything, he once wrote to me, but obviously he does believe in something, even if its disbelief in God but he fails to understand that what we believe doesn’t change truth. Excellent and most reasonable explanation of of the Scriptures sir. Thank you.

  • SJ