Dolan on Obama meeting: “Extraordinarily friendly”

The head of the USCCB spoke with reporters the other day about his recent meeting at the White House.

Details:

The standoff between the White House and the nation’s Catholic bishops over gay marriage and other hot-button issues may be easing after a quiet Oval Office meeting between President Obama and the head of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.

Still, Archbishop Timothy Dolan of New York and other prelates made it clear at their annual meeting on Monday (Nov. 14) that they still see an array of threats that pose an imminent danger to the church’s freedom unless sufficient religious exemptions are granted.

Dolan, president of the bishops’ conference, described his Nov. 8 meeting with Obama — first reported on Saturday by the National Catholic Reporter — as “extraordinarily friendly.”

“It was very candid. I would say there were areas of agreement and disagreement,” Dolan told reporters at the bishops’ gathering.

“But I would say this: that I found the president of the United States to be very open to the sensitivities of the Catholic community that were worried about an intrusion into religious liberty.”

Dolan said Obama was “very sensitive” to the bishops’ concerns over gay marriage and insurance mandates to provide artificial birth control coverage as part of the new health care reform law.

“He was very ardent in his desire to assure me that this is something he will look long and hard at. And I left there feeling a bit more at peace about this issue than when I entered.”

That sentiment, coming after Dolan’s first face-to-face meeting with Obama since he was elected to lead the bishops last year, marks a sea change from tense relations between the U.S. hierarchy and the administration.

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Comments

  1. Henry Karlson says:

    There was no real danger; there was no assault against Catholics. There were some GOP political hacks trying to make it seem like such — scaring some at the USCCB because of the way they have gained a voice at the USCCB (again, note how the health care reform law was misrepresented to the USCCB and how the USCCB accepted the misrepresentation). The bishops need to be careful and I think they need to clean house before they get manipulated further by GOP hacks.

  2. What about the left wing Democratic hacks?

  3. Henry Karlson says:

    If you can show people misrepresenting data to support Democratic policies, then that is wrong too.

    However, when the claim is one side is making a fight against Catholics, and that is not happening, one must wonder what political hack has started this meme. That hack needs to be outed.

  4. vox borealis says:

    “…He was very ardent in his desire to assure me that this is something he will look long and hard at.”

    “After which, he handed me some vials labeled “Snake oil” and showed me some handsome brochures about some lovely bridges that are apparently for sale.”

    Hoo boy.

  5. Detail. Nuance. Although I might have used different language, I defer to my friend Henry Karlson, when he says “some GOP political hacks.” And in actually, he is calling a spade, a spade.

    Sadly, RomCath appears to nosedive into name calling of a more intense degree.

    Someone walked into the rectory where I work yesterday and as we were discussing the shrinking church, he launched into an invective blaming “liberals” for hating the church.

    What?

    These simplistic ventures into objectification and name calling lead us nowhere. After all – am I missing something about Catholic meaning universal?

    In any case, onto the main story – the imagery is not lost on me of Dolan and Obama chatting with the backdrop of yesterday’s Gospel about Zacchaeus. Jesus says that he MUST go to Zacchaeus’ house; He does not demand Zacchaeus to follow all the rules and come to His house.

    Do we notice what this inspires Zacchaeus to do? OK, that’s the essence of the Gospel and Archbishop Dolan is no dummy. He knows how things work and how to be clear about what IS wrong and yet keeping the conversation alive.

    No conversation. No conversion. That’s how I see it.

  6. There is a real danger from this administration; there is an on going assault against Catholics. There are some Democratic hacks that have been trying to cover is up – misleading some at the USCCB, because their voice there has been deceptive (again, note how the health care reform law was misrepresented to the USCCB by the administration and how the USCCB was not fooled). The bishops need to be careful and I think they need to pray Holy Spirit for discernment before they get manipulated further by Democratic hacks.

  7. “Dolan said Obama was “very sensitive” to the bishops’ concerns over gay marriage and insurance mandates to provide artificial birth control coverage as part of the new health care reform law.”

    Well, what would anyone expect differently? No politician shuns voters outright. However actions speak louder thahn words, and this has definitely been the most anti Catholic administration in my adult lifetime. The fact that this meeting has to take place is a sign itself that this administration has been insensitive to Catholics.

  8. Deacon Greg Kandra says:

    Well put, Fran.

    At our parish mission last night, the presenting priest talked at length about the parable of the wheat and the weeds — how we have both wheat and weeds, joys and sorrows, in the daily struggles of our lives. But I couldn’t help but be reminded that, as the Body of Christ, we are wheat and weeds as well. And sometimes, whether we realize it or not, those of us who are so quick to call ourselves wheat are, in fact, weeds. We need to learn to share the same garden, and let the gardener sort it out in the end.

    Dcn. G.

  9. Henry Karlson says:

    Where is there an assault against Catholics? I don’t mean crying that some funding wasn’t received while other funding was increased (whether or not I think the decision was wrong, it’s normal with funding to have things like that happen); I mean a real assault against Catholics, preventing Catholics from actually following their faith.

    When there are people trying to make laws which would forbid Catholics from helping “illegal aliens” in any way — even giving them sacraments — THAT is a strike against religious liberty. Who are the ones proposing such measures? Not the Obama Administration. Please, let’s realize, there are serious concerns out there; but let’s look to see where real laws are being put into play to prevent religious activity.

  10. Fran, Jesus just as frequently used incredibly severe language to condemn people who were not living the right way, were not loving God first and foremost, and were leading others into sin. So I’m not sure that that parable applies here, especially since this is not Obama’s first rodeo when it comes to strident advocacy of legalized abortion and, before that, infanticide.

    It’s fine for the Archbishop to keep the “conversation” open, but we all know (and that includes Dolan) that it is a one way conversation at this point. The rights of Catholics are being constricted under Obama’s administration, not fostered and respected.

  11. Henry Karlson says:

    What rights are being constricted by the Obama administration? What about rights of Catholics being eliminated by GOP bills? Once again:

    http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/08/02/285469/alabama-churches-states-most-merciless-anti-immigration-law-makes-it-a-crime-to-follow-gods-command/

    Look to REAL religious liberty being violated. There you see it. But it is always ignored while a sham fear of Obama doing something (when nothing is being done) is being spread online. This shows to me it is all politics, and no REAL concern for religious liberty.

  12. Fran:
    I could not agree with you more. However, I think that people have different ideas about what a conversation is.

  13. Henry Karlson:
    I am beginning to think that, if we were to ask sincere, practicing (until they get it right) Catholics to put aside their political partisanship (Republican, Democratic, right, left, etc.) we might find that the Gospel message would dominate all of our thinking.

  14. Just watch MSNBC for an hour

  15. Sadly, RomCath appears to nosedive into name calling of a more intense degree.

    Where? When?

  16. Thanks for the link–it really helps to see a clear, less emotional, example of what you are talking about. Do you have any similar links from other states or the federal government? Trends in Alabama do not necessarily mirror trends in Washington. My sympathy is with Democratic politics, but when I look at their stance on abortion, gay marriage, and statments like Selibus’ about being at war with people who do not support a woman’s right to have an abortion (Hilary Clinton made similar remarks if I recall), I have a hard time seeing how voting Democrate is not compromising my faith.

    You mention that “Republican Hacks” undermined Obama’s health care proposals with the Bishops. If I recall correctly, the Bishops were highly supportive of the measures, but they wanted to make sure that abortion would not be funded in health care. Their complaints were few but roundly denounced by Democrats.

  17. Henry can you give an example or two of when any “illegal alians” were denied sacaraments? Thanks, and be specific please.

  18. Henry Karlson says:

    Rick
    Abortion was not being funded by the health care reform; that was shown in many different ways through many different independent analyses. However, a wing within the USCCB (the “pro-life” wing which connects itself to the talking points of the NRTLC, which if one examines carefully is just serving GOP interests) was given credence and though a couple bishops spoke out against that analysis, in general, it was used to subvert a Catholic aim. Those who were speaking out against health care reform used the “pro-life” wing with false premises, and they were against all reform, and willing to misrepresent it for the sake of stopping it, and the USCCB followed through without listening to others or looking to see if their advisers were telling the truth.

    And, what is more, no one from the USCCB has ever spoken about health insurance, telling Catholics they can’t have policies from companies which fund abortion in one fashion or another. The rich get health care and health insurance without question, and no one says anything? No one says you must get rid of insurance if it is connected to a company which funds abortion? Really? Do you see the inconsistency with Catholic ideal here? Preferential option for the poor mean the poor should get the most benefit, not the most restrictions; when the rich with insurance are not being forced to neglect insurance but the poor are told they can’t have it as long as some claim there might be an indirect funding of abortion somewhere, again, tell me — is that really Catholic?

    The Republicath online has often conflated remote material cooperation with abortion with formal cooperation with evil, but only apply it to one side. Their side is always given every freedom: well, yes, you can still buy that insurance; why, yes, the GOP did fund abortion but oh well; yes, Scott Brown is pro-choice but he is Republican and doesn’t want health care reform…. do we note what is going on… again remote material cooperation (which I agree, let’s try to diminish the best we can) is being used to subvert work against real formal cooperation with evil.

  19. ron chandonia says:

    Thank you, Rick. That is exactly what I think. In fact, I find it increasingly difficult to vote for candidates of either party for the major federal offices, and my distaste for the naked partisanship of Catholics on both sides of the spectrum is increased when I read exchanges like those on this very thread. Is it too much to ask Catholics commenting on a Catholic blog to admit that their party of preference may not fully support–and may even undermine–basic teachings of our faith?

  20. Henry Karlson says:

    HMS

    I am not a Democrat, and I didn’t vote for Obama. I only deal with the claims when it is coming from one side and false. Again, I would respond to the other side, if it was the same kind of smearing going on. And I certainly have criticized Obama for many things — real evils which he has supported, such as what was done in Libya.

    So, I agree, I wish people would look beyond the politics. The sad thing is, however, I see GOP talking points being made into religious points on many blogs. When I see that, I respond. If people were making DNC taking points as religious points, I would also speak out.

  21. Henry Karlson says:

    Klaire

    Read the link I provided in my response to kevin.

  22. Uh oh. Looks like we have an Obamabot on the loose here.

  23. Henry I think you are a bit naive to not realize who the “puppet master” behind the curtain is. That’s how this adminstration works.

  24. I live in Illinois where civil rights legislation was recently enacted for same sex couples. When the legislation was being debated legislators WERE PROMISED that Catholic Charities could still practice in Illinois and continue to refer same sex couples on to other agencies. When the bill became law, it was redefined by the Govenor and States Attorney’s Office to state that Catholic Charities could no longer contract with the State. Clear, very explicit religious exemptions regarding same sex marriage, health insurance and abortion funding need to be in place. The Bishops are rubes if they have not learned after what has happened in Illinois with Catholic Charities, with Belmont Abbey College, or Ms. Selibus’ statements to Planned Parenthood. As I mentioned earlier, I’m a Democrat and I think the party has blatently betrayed and lied to Democrats who are Catholic. Republicans have lied too, but their animus against is more hidden.

    Regarding the Bishops’ stance on Obama’s Health Care plan, if I remember correctly the Bishop’s site very clearly stated they supported the bill, but that they needed more than an Executive Order banning abortion funding to fully support it. I have a hard time believing that all those press releases were only the stance or a few hard-core bishops. There were too many press releases for too long a time without anybody saying anything for me to believe that a couple men co-opted the process. Where are your facts?

  25. God is always giving us opportunities to change what we’re doing wrong. We’re always getting another opportunity to do the right thing. How come when God sends His messenger to Obama, it’s mocked? Doesn’t he deserve a chance to turn and do the right thing?

  26. Henry Karlson says:

    Rick
    You can look at the analysis which was given at DotCommonweal, or by Morning’s Minion on Vox Nova. Since giving too many links will make a thread not go through here is one key person describing what went down:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/03/bart-stupak-a-year-after-health-care-getting-bitched-out-in-airports-how-the-deal-went-down-and-more/72938/#

  27. When Obamacare was being debated, the Democrats scoffed at the charge that abortions would be paid for with federal dollars. After it was passed, ‘Catholic’ HHS Secretary Sebelius swung into action:

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obamacare-mandates-coverage-abortion-drug_581969.html

  28. Archbishop Dolan took the time to meet quietly and constructively with the President. Rather than using hateful, political, or over-the-top rhetoric, he took positive action in his desire to make a difference. He set a wonderful example for all of us. The angry, disdainful, and condescending tone that seem to characterize so many of these anti-Obama posts, as well as that of many of the responses, does nothing other than fuel distrust and division, both in our country and in our Church. As Catholics and as Christians, we can and must do better.

  29. I’d like to see where RomCath was calling any names. These liberals get very defensive very quickly. Typical liberal tactic: accuse your enemy of what you yourself are doing.
    Deacon Kandra, you ardently agreed with your buddy Fran. I ask you: when did RomCath call anyone any names? The Deacon, of course, won’t admit anything. He’ll just insult you and end by saying, “God Bless, Deacon G!” which is just another way of flipping someone off. Go ahead Deacon, sternly correct me–instead of taking some responsibility for the comments on this blog. A blog which had become very politicized.
    RomCath, you did nothing wrong. You are merely wasting your time trying to reason with liberals, when they have all the answers.

  30. Henry Karlson says:

    Ken

    Welcome to the use of labels, such as “liberal,” as a way to ignore what people have to say.

    BTW, I think (I could be wrong) that Fran believed I was being called a “left wing Democrat hack.” It could be read that way.

  31. Meeting quietly with the president is fine. Issuing statements that give even a hint that Catholics can be placated with talk while the president remains in his entrenched positions, is not fine.

    Many of us are old enough to remember when Jimmy Carter went to Moscow and came back all sentimental about Leonid Brezhnev’s desire for world peace. Shortly thereafter, the USSR invaded Afghanistan.

  32. Ken…
    If you could read my post right above your most recent one….this is the sort of thing I was talking about. If possible, no matter how difficult it might be, I believe we really need to rid ourselves of the us vs. them, liberal vs. conservative mindset that is so pervasive in our country. It may require us to take the “high road” when we think people, in our opinion, are being unreasonable or less than frank, but it’s the only way we’ll ever get anything accomplished, the only way we’ll ever be able to reach across the divide that seems to separate so many of us now. Jesus was the ultimate bridge builder…He’s the one who should guide us during these difficult, angry times.

  33. Deacon Mike,

    I have no doubt that Bishop Dolan put his best efforts to “meet constructively” with Obama. That said, the fact remains that we have a radical abortion and contraceptive happy president leading the nation (for starters) in a highly over sexualized culture, with public “sex education” flaming the fire. He also has a 3 year record of his words not mathing his actions.

    The reality is, the Catholic vote put Obama into office, and may well do so again.

    Jesus came with a sword, and that sword is Truth. Truth divides. Every Catholic will be held accountable.

  34. Ken:
    Some of us are working very hard not to politicize our comments or disagreements with each other. I wish you would do the same.

  35. Henry Karlson says:

    And the idea that one can’t be a good Catholic and vote for Obama is wrong. One must, of course, have good reasons, they can’t vote for him for wrong reasons; but remote material cooperation with evil in such votes does not make them bad Catholics, for in every election, there will be remote material cooperation with evil.

  36. Klaire:
    Re your comment about our president being ‘a radical abortion… happy president”

    Do you really believe that this president or any sane person is “happy” about abortion?

  37. In 2008 when Obama was an unknown, I earnestly sought to discover who he was. Two things I learned- a NY Times article had his Harvard law professor’s reaction to Obama’s performance at a moot court exercise wherein the prof was amazed that at the conclusion both sides of the debate came away believing that Obama agreed with them. Another article-from which source I don’t remember-Chicago’s Cardinal George related his conversation with Obama wherein he constantly had to interrupt Obama to tell him-’no we don’t agree on that.’
    It’s a curious thing-the last two Democrat presidents came from homes with an absent fathers. The conventional wisdom suggests that one of the coping mechanisms developed in such a dysfunctional home is the cameleon response born out of the need to be accepted. So I’m sure the Archbishop
    found the President to extraordinarily friendly-I just wonder how consistent that is with Obama’s true self.

  38. This should not be about Archbishop Dolan feeling good. Where is his humility?
    So much is at stake and the church is letting us down. Lies and liars cannot be tolerated. This should not be behind closed doors. What is the church afraid of?
    We are called to stand for our faith, not compromise, nor desire to feel good with feeble talk.

  39. Good for Arch Bishop Dolan, an embassy is always the right thing….Blessed be the Peacemakers. However, it is interesting to see in these posts, how deluded people are in their “Wishful Thinking” about the President, his party and their intentions and future motivations. The party of Mammon?…I can deal with their heresies…the party that supports forces that consistently attack my family or my neighbor’s family? Sorry…you have crossed the line.

    Anybody on this thread seen the culture lately? Get out of your pots little froggies…the water is not really luke warm like you think….but rather boiling hot after sixty years of liberal social morals turning up the heat one notch at a time.

    A little secret liberals…sometimes there really is no “Good Explanation” for somebody’s bad behavior..sometimes there is a direct moral evil that really is occurring, willfully and purposefully, and sometimes…just sometimes…the situation really is black and white.

    If somebody wants to know what Obama leadership and his party has done ask the Catholic Adoption agencies that have been closed down due to “Gay Marriage”…after that, you can ask me, I am a Catholic Business Owner who apparently will be forced to subsidize his employees contraception practices now. Nice to see the Church sticking up for me and my conscience instead of their Non-Profit entities.

    Let’s do something fun…Lets be shockingly overly simplistic for once shall we?, as we engage in our vain intellectual sophistries in forums like these…..Ready?….”Go jump in a lake liberals..I’m through listening to your excuses and reasons…If it quacks like a duck, you can guarantee that duck is prowling about the world seeking the ruin of souls”…

  40. Satan is always Charming at first!

  41. Last I checked, the FDA determined ‘Ella’ was a contraceptive. The Republicaths have of course been shifting the goal posts since its passage. First it was the community health centers were going to be performing abortions, and they didn’t. Then the catastrophic care interim plans were going to cover abortion, and they didn’t. Now the determination of another government agency that ella is a contraceptive is being used to claim this was how Obama was going to fund abortion. You would think people would get sick of the lies. You’d think some people might (like the USCCB) apologize to Bart Stupak for the malicious and malformed claims they made, but no. There is just this continuing doubling down. People seem to like the Rube Goldberg explanations for how Obama is supporting abortion when it is patently obvious that the political calculation was that expanding health care coverage was more important than increasing the abortion franchise. No, that doesn’t make him a stealth pro-lifer, and it isn’t even like he portrays himself as such. But is sure would help the pro-life movement’s intellectual honesty if they recognized that they indeed didn’t lose with the passage of ‘Obamacare’. At least they didn’t lose on the issue of abortion, their alleged issue.

  42. In 2008 when Obama was an unknown, I earnestly sought to discover who he was. Two things I learned- a NY Times article had his Harvard law professor’s reaction to Obama’s performance at a moot court exercise wherein the prof was amazed that at the conclusion both sides of the debate came away believing that Obama agreed with them. Another article-from which source I don’t remember-Chicago’s Cardinal George related his conversation with Obama wherein he constantly had to interrupt Obama to tell him-’no we don’t agree on that.’
    It’s a curious thing-the last two Democrat presidents came from homes with an absent father. The conventional wisdom suggests that one of the coping mechanisms developed in such a dysfunctional home is the cameleon response born out of the need to be accepted. So I’m sure the Archbishop
    found the President to extraordinarily friendly-I just wonder how consistent that is with Obama’s true self.

  43. Fair enough RomCath- this is not so bad… “What about the left wing Democratic hacks?” But it is also not helpful either. Nonetheless – I am sorry, mea culpa.

    That said – your comment about “watch MSNBC for an hour” is not helpful either, at least as I see it.

  44. You put that very well – thank you Deacon Mike.

  45. Deacon Greg Kandra says:

    “You are merely wasting your time trying to reason with liberals, when they have all the answers.”

    Well then, Ken, clearly you must be a liberal.

    I don’t think RomCath has called anyone names. That was Fran’s characterization, not mine (and since RomCath was parroting someone else by using the word “hack,” he’s really not the one to blame.)

    Fran’s tone was respectful. Yours is infantile. Grow up, speak to those you disagree with respectfully, or you’re outa here. I’m not in a mood for this today.

    Dcn. G.

  46. George Mason says:

    I didn’t think any Catholics were so indoctrinated as to still think Obama and the Democrats actually respect Catholics.

    In any case, just go into the USCCB parking lot in DC and look at the bumper stickers. Only someone with their head in the sand thinks the Republicans are influencing the policies.

  47. George Mason says:

    Some presidents of Catholic universities would disagree with you. Just watch the news or read the newspaper a little.

  48. Dolan to me errs a little on the side of wanting to be liked and being jolly all the time. As if a stern word from him about this administration’s track record and current trajectory might scare people away from the Church. One of things I loved about Cardinal O’Connor was that he could do both.

  49. George Mason says:

    If that is correct, kudos. I imagine Nancy Pelosi who loves to play the crusader and invoke God for all her causes should give you something to comment about.

  50. Deacon I have no concern or fear if you kick me off your blog. It has become quite useless and biased. At one time it was actually a nice place to visit. Now, since you yourself have become a “player” it has lost all of its former Catholic character. Compare your posts now with those of years past, and you might spot a difference. It is far more political now, because you are far more political.
    Good riddance to this blog. And if anyone is infantile, it is you and your extreme sensitivity to anyone who would criticize, even in the slightest, the permanent diaconate. Perhaps we do need more permanent deacons, but you, my friend, are not a good argument in favor of them.

  51. Deacon Mike, I agree with you, and I do tend to jump into those terms rather quickly. But don’t you agree that RomCath was viciously attacked rather quickly? Did his post warrant that type of response. Believe me, if anyone is angry on this blog, it’s not me.
    Check out some of these hideous responses to people.

  52. The Catholic Church is BEING FORCED INTO PROVIDING ABORTION & CONTRACEPTION by insurance mandates via Barry-care and government legislation.

    And let’s get one thing straight people – any politician who would repeatedly vote NOT to provide a baby who survived an abortion any medical attention whatsoever DOESN’T CARE ABOUT YOU or GOD. For heaven’s sake, look at the man’s fruits! He doesn’t care about the Catholic faith or giving glory to God. He only cares deeply about his power and his muslim friends who are surrounding Israel in this new ‘springtime’ which soon may become a nuclear winter. As far as the United States he only seeks to protect those who are coming into this country to eventually do us harm via the Mexican border.

    Henry, I really believe your brand of Catholicism is very Judas-like. Feigning concern for the poor while disregarding the outright animosity the left has for religion or giving ANY glory to God. Conservatives give the most to charities and are against the liberal (anti-God) agenda: abortion, homosexual ‘marriage’, and embryonic stem cell ‘research/cloning (translation: using humans as material product to kill and exploit).

  53. Kenny:
    “The conventional wisdom suggests that one of the coping mechanisms developed in such a dysfunctional home is the cameleon response born out of the need to be accepted.”

    Also, dysfunctional homes may produce children who as adults are narcissistic, paranoiac, anti-social. They may abuse substances, have addictions, exhibit bullying behavior. They may have dropped out of school, been juvenile delinquents, have children out of wedlock and abortions, commit suicide, and turn into serial killers.

  54. You have to love that the first post here was Henry statement “no assault against Catholics” and then saying “There were some GOP political “hacks” trying to make it seem like such — scaring some at the USCCB because of the way they have gained a voice at the USCCB.

    No name calling here folks. So according to the gospel of Henry, the US Bishops in the USCCB are so dumb that those evil GOP hacks scared the bishops into saying (according to the Deacon Greg post above) that the president of the USCCB, “Archbishop Timothy Dolan of New York and other prelates made it clear at their annual meeting on Monday (Nov. 14) that they still see an array of threats that pose an imminent danger to the church’s freedom unless sufficient religious exemptions are granted.” this of course came after the meeting with Obama.

    Henry says there is no danger, no threat, but the USCCB language clearly states “imminent danger” to the Church’s freedom.

    So Henry and those that seem to think Henry is right here, is the USCCB a bunch of frightened idiots who are under the power of Henry’s Gop “hacks”? You have to love how those on the left when the bishop in Amarilo was doing his thing on Father Pavone where all about the rights of the Bishop and now it appears that there is an all out attack on the entire conference that they are afraid and or not to bright.

    Note I have not called anyone a single name, only posed questions based on the Deacon Greg post article and that of Henry first out of the box calling people hacks…

  55. Just one? LOL.

  56. Fran, you quote Henry on calling people GOP hacks who have such profound influence on the USCCB and then show agreement with this saying he is calling a spade a spade. then you accuse Rom Cath of diving into name calling where there was none. Then you want to take the high road and say there should be no name calling.

    I agree. Lets not use names. but if we are to discuss a topic which is important, it is important to point out facts, not points which have no links or proof.

    You mention Jesus did not invite Zacchaeus back to his house…excuse me, but Jesus had no house. He had no place to lay his head and call it his own ever in his life. He did demand that those who follow had to surrender everything and follow and he allowed those who had heard Him and said your teaching is to hard to walk away and then asked if the apostles also wanted to leave. Jesus did not try to modify the truth or make what had been called easier to try to bring those who left back. That is what many today do not want to hear. The Catholic Church teaching we are called to believe as non negoatiable are ones we have to believe or we are also walking away from Christ. We cannot come up with other things where the Church allows us freedom to follow or not and try to make them equal. Jesus told the woman caught in adultery after saving her from the mob to go forth and sin no more. These are all truths and I would love to hear someone show where they are in error or are right wing hack comments or lies.

    Glad you say that Archbishop Dolan is no dummy. He is certainly one of the brightest of bishops. Thus again we see his warning of “they still see an array of threats that pose an imminent danger to the church’s freedom unless sufficient religious exemptions are granted.” So now we will wait to see if Obama works to grant the exceptions and reverse the policies of his administration which has created this Immient danger to our freedom.

  57. Henry, what rights are being restricted…

    Archbishop Dolan says the Bishops see “an array of threats that pose an imminent danger to the church’s freedom” No need for links. Just read what the Archbishop said above in this post by Deacon Greg.

    And Henry, you keep posting the same site as if it shows that the GOP is the one removing freedom by passing a law about “illegal” immigration issues. There is no Catholic teaching saying that the US needs to have open borders allowing anyone to break our laws and provide benefits and support to those who break our laws. You keep saying the same thing over but have no Catholic teaching or freedom at stake in your post. The Church teaches us to help the poor. It says we should help those held in prisons. It does not in anything I have seen say we should help those who break the laws and are evading the law which in effect violates the law of aiding and abetting a criminal. Are you saying this is Catholic teaching and if so where can I see that in writing. Catholic teaching does say countries have a right to protect their borders and I can give you the link if you need it. Again, there are many ways to help the poor, one of the best being to try to help the country they now live it to have greater freedom and opportunity.

  58. Henry, you say that abortion was not being funded.
    “Rick
    Abortion was not being funded by the health care reform”
    One simple question.

    When the pro life group of democrats said they would not support the bill without the so called Stupak amendment, the pro abortion crowd in the Democrats said they would no longer support the bill if the Stupak amendment were added because it clearly blocked use of federal money for abortion. The answer was the so called use of an executive order to allow the fig leaf that the pro abortion crowd knew meant nothing.

    So Henry, if it was not in the bill, why was the Stupak amendment clearly banning federal funds for abortion that was supported by the USCCB pro life group not allowed to be added and why did the pro abortion crowd panic at its mention?

  59. Ron, where does GOP actual party platform violate Catholic Church teaching?

    If you assume Catholic teaching on poverty states that it settled teaching that the central government should take money from one person and set up a massive federal program to determine who should recieve those funds please show that to me. I have asked for this often and would love to be informed on this teaching. There are many ways to help the poor and most Church teaching is about the individual doing everything they can to help the poor, not the federal government. Catholic teaching says that a country has the right, just like the Vatican, to set up immigration programs and to protect its borders. I would suggest if 10 million people were illegally entering the Vatican city and applying for benefits, that the Vatican would act. Mexico has much stronger legislation on immigration and what one in their country is allowed to do than the USA. We have been a great country since our founding on immigration.

    Please help me folks with clear teaching on that Church teaching on massive federal programs as Jesus solution for poverty. In fact, we do have something on the books about stealing and having the government do the stealing for us does not seem like a good solution to poverty. Open borders does not seem like a good immigration program either.

  60. Again, Henry, why did the pro abortion crowd say no to the Stupak amendment if there was no funding of abortion. it would have had the support of the USCCB to the healthcare bill. why the ploy of the exec order which anyone knows can be reversed with a simple second order. Also remember that Obama promised nothing enacted would impact planned parenthood abortion mills in any way. That is on video several times through you tube.

  61. M.Z. When Stupak amendment was on the floor, it would have ended the entire matter of funding of abortions by the federal government in the bill. It was a very easy amendment to read and understand. If there was no funding of abortion in the healthcare mess than no one had read and was filled with a lot few understood since it had been fashioned behind closed doors, why did the entire pro abortion democrat caucus say if it was added, they would no longer support the bill? That is a simple question. the Stupak was a non starter for it put in the bill no funding of abortion in clear concise language.

  62. I think your attack on the Deacon is nasty and wrong. I have no idea what is making you so angry but I pray that you will find healing with God.

  63. Henry Karlson says:

    Carl

    Read the annual messages on migrants from the Pope. You will see that indeed we are required to show personal dignity and respect and help people, even if they have “illegally” entered the land. It’s just like the Church’s teaching has said that if someone takes food to eat, it’s not stealing, even if they don’t pay for it when they can’t pay for it. The whole positive law has limits, and that limit is when it ignores the rights of the human person. You keep showing you know more about a GOP talking point than you do the Church’s teachings. Once again, go read the Vatican on migrants. This is why the Church is gravely concerned with many of the hostile laws which have come of late.

    It’s funny how you say a nation has a right to make laws and must be obeyed, and use that to justify inhumanity to fellow people – and the Church has nothing to say on it. Seriously? An unjust law is no law. This is why pro-abortion laws are not to be obeyed; this is why genocide is not to be obeyed; this is why inhumanity to fellow humans who happen to be “illegals” is not to be done. Period.

  64. Henry Karlson says:

    I love being called a Judas. Funny.


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