A progressive Christian asks “How do I not hate most Christians?”

As a progressive Christian in the red state of Kentucky, I struggle with separating my belief in Jesus from the conservative, hellfire Christians I am surrounded by everywhere I look. My religious neighbors have so nicely informed me that yoga is spiritually dangerous and that Obama is a Muslim from Kenya. How do I not hate Christians? I find myself wanting to no part of the label Christian!

Well (if I may) I don’t think the problem is that you want no part of the label “Christian.” It’s that you want no part of the label moron. And so many of the Christians around you are (sadly! it’s nobody’s fault!) morons. And you’re perfectly aware that in the minds of a lot of people Christian and moron go together like soup and liquid.

Not good for you.

So you are so talking to the right person about this. I basically, viscerally loathe being part of … well, any group at all. I don’t join stuff. More than three people in a room start chiming in together with the same beliefs, and right away I get itchy and start scanning for an exit.

And yet—even though half the stuff believed by most Christians is to my mind horrendously toxic bullshit—I am a Christian. I sincerely do believe that God manifested as Christ by way of offering people a way to feel good about their lives. (Actually, to be entirely specific, what I really believe is that as a belief system Christianity is so perfect, and so efficacious, that whether or not it’s actually “true” is irrelevant. But that’s another post.)

So I’m stuck with two choices: pretend, at least out in the world, that I’m not a Christian; or keep the name, and fight to take it back from all the people who’ve basically ruined that name.

I choose the latter—and so I fight like that, as … well, a way of life, really, what with the blogging and speaking and all. And I’m cool with that choice. I don’t really know what else to do. I’m not going to quit being a Christian, and I’m not going to let other people define for me what that means.

Plus, you know, for me, over the years I’ve been doing this, I’ve come to realize that one aspect of my really really not wanting to in any way be mistaken for, or associated with, anyone who would say anything as reprehensible as, “Yoga was invented by Satan,” or “Obama isn’t an American,” is that that’s essentially an arrogant way for me to feel. It’s egotistical.

Those are terrible things to say, no doubt. But in a more general sense, who am I to claim that I can’t be associated with idiots and dipshits? Who died and made me a saint? I’m a dipshit about three hundred times a minute. If I start hating everybody who is a whole lot less than they should or could be, how do I avoid eventually having to chew off my own foot?

My advice? Keep the name Christian. Be proud of what it truly means. It’s like being an American. Sure, lots of Americans are a blight upon the name. But lots of them aren’t. Either way, at its core America is a phenomenal country, because the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence rock so hard they’re diamonds. America is the greatest experiment in the history of believing in the innate nobility of humans. That won’t change. It can’t. It already happened.

So I’m a proud American! It chills me to think of being associated with what the term “proud American” typically connotes, but … whatever. You spend your life fighting stupid and you die still swinging.

I’m a Christian, and I’m not an asshole. You’re a Christian, and you seem like a nice person. Most of the people who comment on this blog are non-dickweedian Christians. There’s a whole universe of Christians out there with whom I know you’d be proud to be associated. You’re one of them/us.

Let people say stupid things. They’re just scared. Remind yourself that they, just like you and me and everyone else in the world, are on a slow, winding journey toward becoming a better version of themselves. And then smile, say whatever little thing you might by way of toning down their dumb or crazy, and move on.

That’s pretty much life, right there: tip-toe around the stupid, refocus, and move on.

Thanks for writing me, mate. Love to you.

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  • Naomi A. Flanders via Facebook

    Enemies are to be loved, and they can be other Christians. As Archbishop Tutu has pointed out. “Love is an action, not a feeling.” Praying without ceasing for ourselves and others helps a lot with our forgiveness and our actions. Right now we all need to be praying most of the time, in my opinion. Not an easy thing to do. I find repeating the Lord’s prayer slowly and thoughtfully really helpful.

  • Amy Hoag

    I know what this man is talking about and I feel what he says deeply but I like you choose to live my life focusing on the man that Christ was and how he changed so many people’s lives ( and continues to do every day). On a funny note my Methodist church has a free yoga class every Sunday… Just because there are people who don’t keep the Christ in Christian doesn’t mean we should become discouraged, we’ve got to show others how Christ’s love can change someone’s life.

  • Linda Borchert via Facebook

    I agree with you about the “moron” part, but where I still struggle is with the meanness. Hateful bullying is scary, and hard to ignore.

  • Linda Borchert via Facebook

    I agree with you about the “moron” part, but where I still struggle is with the meanness. Hateful bullying is scary, and hard to ignore.

  • Lymis

    The part I struggle with, with periodic success, is to make sure my feelings are about the people, not the label and not the group.

    What I feel about an individual who behaves horribly, or a group of individuals getting together to behave moronically is about a group of people who happen to be Christians for behaving badly, not about a group of people who happen to be behaving badly for being Christian.

    Yes, I’ve come to assume that someone driving around with a chrome fish and a Romney-Ryan sticker is more likely than not to be someone I’ll think badly of if I get to know them. And yes, in a lot of cases, it’s because of what they think that being a Christian means – as far as many of them are concerned, it works out that yes, I pretty much hate them for being Christian, because what disgusts me about them is what they think is central to their faith.

    But I also know that it doesn’t have to be central to *my* understanding of what being a Christian can and should mean, even if the people who live that way are pretty thin on the ground these days, at least among those going out of their way to parade around declaring their Christian credentials.

    But I’ve come down on the other side of the fence and don’t usually identify as a Christian. To paraphrase someone or other, I’d rather have a bigot think I’m a non-Christian than have a non-Christian think I’m a bigot.

  • Leslie

    Just feel the need to ask, because it disrupted my reading of this, what is it that is reprehensible about the statement “Obama is a Muslim”? If it is the fact that the statement is false that makes it reprehensible, then I’m with ya, but the way you have it framed here left me unclear on the point and disrupted my otherwise enthusiastic reading of what you have written here.

  • mike moore

    and keep going to yoga, it may be a great way to meet some people with whom you can really connect.

  • Kris Cranston

    Thank you, John Shore, for adding the word “dickweedian” to my working vocabulary.

  • Carol VanderNat

    “You spend your life fighting stupid and you die still swinging.”

    Brilliant illustration! There’s no way to wipe out stupid, and my own stupid is mind-boggling, but you swing away at it no matter what, till you die…..

    I have heard the term “Christianist” applied to folks as a description similar to “Terrorist”. Sometimes that fits…

    I have a hard time calling myself “Christian”….I prefer “Christ-follower”, but whatever, I’m still the same me….

    Our pastor practices meditation, along with several of us in his congregation. I also practice T’ai Chi…and recently we hosted a dinner attended by members of a Jewish Synagogue and two Muslim Mosques.

    I guess if I’m headed for hell, at least I’ll be in some pretty fine company…..take heart, writer…we’re not to hate anyone, but we don’t have to like ’em either!

    That’s it for the latest installment of “Disconnected, Random Thoughts”!

  • Sharla

    It’s mostly because the folks who say it have “Muslim” elevated to the level of an epithet. They are prejudiced against Muslims to the degree that anyone who professes faith in Islam is automatically, in their mind, an anti-American terrorist.

    That said, I wish someone would, at least from time to time, point out that even if the President WERE a Muslim, so what? We don’t have religious tests for public office in this country. That’s from one of those diamond-like founding documents John mentioned.

  • I can utterly relate, it must part of living in a state that still flies the confederate flag in front of the state legislature. But I am a christian, an American and a southerner (grits is part of the four essential food groups)

    To co-exist I often have to smile while adding scar tissue to my tongue, I also will look for opportunities to say what I think about thing, without telling the what a ‘tard they are for believing such junk. There’s just too much of that type of talk going around. So I’m not adding to it.

    Besides my faith is mine, not yours, I’m not going to tear down another’s beliefs, and have decided another trying to do mine is a waste of their time.

  • Brandi Bickell Todd via Facebook

    I have been struggling with this issue myself and I REALLY needed this good advice! Thank you.

  • Anne Krook via Facebook
  • Leslie

    Exactly, Sharla.

  • Yoga…what little I can do is relaxing, destressing and help keep a tiny amount of flexibility in this bod of mine. I need to go home and do a few positions tonight

  • Kristi Outler Byrd

    “I’m not going to quit being a Christian, and I’m not going to let other people define for me what that means.”

    This statement is key. It really feels like something akin to PTSD when one leaves a fundamentalist Christianity where everything is defined by others, to trying to simply live Christ’s Great Commandment of loving God and people. It can feel lonely being surrounded by people who represent a different kind of Christianity or who claim that you aren’t “really” Christian.

    Clinging to the fact that other flawed human beings do not get to define you or your Christianity frees you up. It helps douse that anger, anger that can lead to a sort of reverse fundamentalism, an stubborn loathing of all things “Christian.” I’ve been there! It helps me to remember that I once believed differently than I do now. God loved me back then, even when I espoused things I now find hateful. We are all flawed so I’ll extend grace (or try to) to those who don’t always extend it to me or others who aren’t in the tribe. Because who is my neighbor? EVERYONE…. including those fundies who rub me the wrong way.

  • mike moore

    I so admire you … the closest I get to doing yoga are the contortions I put my body through in order to grab the TV remote, without getting off of the sofa. Keep up the good vibes.

  • Someone once said “Love your enemies – it will confuse the devil out of them.”

  • Allie

    Oh honey, this is good stuff. Yep, a little humility works wonders. I may not be an idiot in the particular ways fundies are idiots, but I guarantee I am an idiot somehow.

    This reminds me of something C.S. Lewis said. You know that one person, may be your mother, or your boss, or a political figure, who just really gets under your skin so badly that you feel like you can’t breathe, you can’t coexist with that person in the world, seems like the fact that that person isn’t struck dead by lightning is proof that God doesn’t care? You are that person to someone.

  • Oh, right. See what you’re saying. Will go change text. Thanks for noting. (Also, just for record or whatever, see this whole series I’ve run: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/johnshore/2011/09/30/a-primer-on-islam-the-basics-lesson-one/

  • I know the feeling very well. Where I live, I live in fear that my vehicle will be keyed because I put a “straight not narrow” bumper sticker on it.

    However, I will not take it off because NOBODY deserves to be invisible. I may not be gay, but I sure as heck know what being treated like you’re “less than” feels like.

    I try to pray for the idiots who are still living in the dark. It’s very hard not to get angry.

  • vj

    So true, but, still – ‘ouch’!

  • Lotus

    Thank you so much for this post. I know that I and other close friends have struggled with this same issue. I have been shunned for being progressive but I’m happy that I have decided to keep the identity as a Christian.

  • Leslie

    Thanks, John. I was QUITE sure that you did not intend what would have been read into those words by some. 🙂 I’ll check out your primer series… had not stumbled on that one.

  • Being a white Christian in AL, you are “privileged” to hear things in what is assumed to be like company. Obviously, they don;t know you are a progressive Christian. I find it disgusting but I often find myself praying for these very people because they need it. Lord do they ever need oit.

  • KellyK

    Colin Powell did. (This is why he is my favorite Republican.)

    “Well, the correct answer is, he is not a Muslim, he’s a Christian. He’s always been a Christian. But the really right answer is, what if he is? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer’s no, that’s not America. Is there something wrong with some seven-year-old Muslim-American kid believing that he or she could be president? Yet, I have heard senior members of my own party drop the suggestion, “He’s a Muslim and he might be associated terrorists.” This is not the way we should be doing it in America.

    I’d like to hear that a little more often, from a few more people.

  • Al

    It’s been said before and it’ll be said again, you can’t judge a religion by the bad behaviour of it’s followers. I try to look for the truth that’s there in all of them so I can shed some light on my own vast ignorance of what’s really going on.

    Good to know that I’m a “non-dickweedian Christian”. I’ve been wondering what denomination we were here and now I know.

  • Elizabeth

    “I basically, viscerally loathe being part of … well, any group at all. I don’t join stuff. More than three people in a room start chiming in together with the same beliefs, and right away I get itchy and start scanning for an exit.” One of a handful of exceptions is as a ‘follower’ (or whatever) of this blog. Nice post, John. Letter writer, you’re not alone — or, rather, you’re alone with a bunch of us.

  • Ben Trigg

    “(Actually, to be entirely specific, what I really believe is that as a belief system Christianity is so perfect, and so efficacious, that whether or not it’s actually “true” is irrelevant. But that’s another post.)”

    Does this blog post exist somewhere? If not, might it be forthcoming?

  • Jill H

    Carol, I hear your disconnected thoughts! I’ve grown weary of straddling the fence between Christian and metaphysical, as if these things are in contradiction with each other. But again, my cult indoctrination never seems to stray too far.

    I have been able to reconcile spirituality and science for myself, I believe everything’s got layers, levels, and grey areas, and I’m so cool with it like that. I like life so much better when its rich with uniqueness. I cannot be a vanilla, straight-up, boxed-in Christian again or I’d poke my eyes out with a fork. I cannot be simply an easy-breezy new ager anymore without feeling unfinished and unfulfilled.

    I’m finding it’s just like building a relationship with someone– as you get to know them, you find aspects you don’t really get or even like, but you begin to see how that aspect makes them unique. You begin to see deeper connections you would’ve overlooked if you were unwilling to be open.

  • Jill H

    Hi Lymis! I’ve missed you. 🙂

  • Thank you for writing this, John. We think alike. To differentiate, I call myself a Compassionate Christian and them Fundamentalists. But I have the same problem…

  • Jen Van Buskirk Eaton via Facebook

    One of the most difficult charges leveled at progressives in general, but progressive Christian is that we claim to be inclusive or have a big umbrella until someone doesn’t agree. It’s been a jagged little pill and one I resemble/have a hard time reconciling. Is there a log in my eye?

  • that Mike guy

    Actually, the term “Christianist” is meant to be parallel to “Islamist”, one who believes in imposing Islam through government.

    Since both Islam and Christianity are based on the Pentateuch, (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy – you know the ones with all the rules) there ain’t really all that much difference.

  • Sarah Caldwell

    We don’t hate them because Christians don’t hate anything but sin, which is often an attitude, often an action, but never a person. If other Christians forget this, well, we sometimes forget it, too.

  • Oh trust me Mike. My exercise routine is best defined by marathon running…running my mouth. I like to think I stay in shape…and I do…. a wavy shape.

    However I know the benefits, and I know I should partake much more then I do.

  • charles

    hey John-

    that was an amazing post. I think that “Rev” is agreeing with you….



  • As a Christian in Kentucky I’ve recently been subjected to one of my co-workers ranting about how evil Obama is because he’s both socialist and black.Oh, and LGBTQ people are evil too according to this genius because as we all know homosexuality is the only thing in the bible. Oh, if you’re atheist your stupid and going to hell. To be fair, your going to hell if your homosexual,pro-abortion,pro-same sex marriage,pro-gay rights and pro-Obama…again, according to this genius. Now, to tell mom the news:I’m going to hell…YAAYY! 🙂

  • Carol VanderNat

    I like how you think…. -=)

  • Al

    If I had to choose between spending eternity with your ignorant, bigoted, hypocritical, racist co-worker and my gay, black, atheist, socialist, pro-Obama, and pro-abortion friends, well I’m going to hang with my friends. Maybe that’s why your co-worker’s got his knickers in a bunch – none of the fun people want to spend time with him.

  • Kris

    I feel the exact same way:)

  • Natalie

    His knickers are always in a bunch.

  • “I sincerely do believe that God manifested as Christ by way of offering people a way to feel good about their lives. (Actually, to be entirely specific, what I really believe is that as a belief system Christianity is so perfect, and so efficacious, that whether or not it’s actually “true” is irrelevant.”


    I thought God manifested as Christ to provide salvation for a sinful world. And whether or not it is true is very relevant. God reached out to us, revealed Himself to us in love and in truth. We didn’t invent a non-existent god to make life easier to digest, did we?

  • Lymis

    I hope you didn’t intend that to be as smug and self-righteous as it comes across.

    If you think that God can be completely understood in all God’s complexity by any human being, then you’ve made up some sort of fake, small, and convenient plaything for yourself – I recommend a teddy bear if you just want something simple to cuddle.

    If, on the other hand, you are prepared to recognize that God is far, far more than we can fully experience, much less fully understand, and much less fully explain, then it necessarily follows that the only way we can deal with that reality IS to do the best we can to come up with stories for ourselves about who and what God is and how we fit into God’s universe and God’s plan.

    Even with the human example and human experience of Jesus as a model, we still have to humbly come before Something that is infinitely greater than we are, and do our best to come away from that with as much truth as we can handle – which only stupidity or arrogance will claim is the Whole Truth.

    Yes, God reached out to us, and continues to reach out to us in each new moment we experience, and we can open ourselves to that and reach out in return. Yes, God is revealed to us by God in love and in truth – but there is no possibility that we can fully experience all that is God, or we would be God.

    We didn’t invent a non-existent God, but we did invent a story about who that God is, and we form belief systems around those stories. Claiming anything else is either arrogance or foolishness (or often, both). That doesn’t mean it isn’t real; it means it’s the best we can do. It’s the most anyone can do.

    There is nothing whatsoever inconsistent with that to state that our experience as a people with the human life that the Christ lived helped us develop a far more complete understanding, a better story, and a solid belief system that helps us understand our connection to God and to each other according to the will of God. Whatever else he might have been doing, Jesus taught us a new way of seeing God.

    Of course religion is something that is designed to make life easier to digest. That’s what it’s FOR.

    Good rule of thumb: NOTHING believed by human beings can be the complete description of all that God is or does. Nothing. So, if John focuses on how well the Christian story and worldview can help us with something we CAN fully understand – how to deal with each other – that isn’t some fluffy irrelevance. It’s the whole point.

    And before you get on a high horse, remember that Jesus himself said that while the first and greatest commandment is to love God, he also said that the second commandment was exactly like the first – to love your neighbor as yourself. We can’t understand that fully in all the depth that Jesus did, but we certainly can notice that Jesus himself made a central connection between loving our neighbor and seeking God.

    So if we can’t possibly fully understand God, but we can fully interact with our neighbor, and loving our neighbor is like unto loving God, doesn’t it follow that religion should focus in large measure on telling us how to love our neighbor and to love ourselves?

    Or, gosh, I don’t know, “offering people a way to feel good about their lives.” Because the only way to really feel good (as opposed to just spraying pink paint over pain) is to actually improve people’s lives. To focus on how we treat our neighbors, how we reach out to the poor, hungry, sick, naked, and hurting.

    And, golly, imagine that. Jesus made it clear that our very salvation hinges on “whatsoever we do to the least of these.”

    You might feel that John’s phrasing is casual, but the underlying idea isn’t. We’ve come full circle. Salvation for “a sinful world” really does come down to “offering people a way to feel good about their lives.”

    Like, you know, Jesus said.

  • I’ve often said that Love is not something that happens. It is something we DO.

  • John (not McCain)

    How do you manage to be inclusive and have a big umbrella if you have to let in the people that then kick out all the people who don’t agree with them? Conservatives don’t want to be under the big umbrella; they want to DESTROY the big umbrella.

  • Jill H

    Funny how uncomplicated that is when you boil it down. Love is a verb, not a noun. (rhyme unintentional)

  • skip johnston

    I love this! I live in a state so red it glows. Because I can pray and breathe with my mouth closed at the same time, people are always asking if I’m Christian. I can now confidently state (cuz this is from an official Reverend, right?), not only am I Christian, I’m a “non-dickweedian Christian”.

  • Jill H

    ***That doesn’t mean it isn’t real; it means it’s the best we can do. It’s the most anyone can do… Whatever else he might have been doing, Jesus taught us a new way of seeing God.***

    There are so many layers of awesome in here, I’ll be dissecting it for days. Thanks Lymis, once again.

  • Jill H

    Which is how I often spot the rabid Christians in the room: the more angry, unsettled, self-assuming, and chatty they are, the more distance I put between us.

  • Wonderful, Lymis. So many people suffer from the fact that they don’t really believe God loves them, because they are unworthy. (At least, that’s my problem.)

  • Anne

    Agreed. Except for the chatty part.

  • Anne

    Nadia rocks!

  • Jill H

    I mean, I often find them excessively ready to ‘chat’ about the good news of my coming destruction at end times. It’s a lovely chat.

  • charles

    If I am feeling impatient, I will always ask those sorts if they are a “Pre-Trib” or “Post-Trib” rapture believer….

    I then ask them- “how can you be so sure about that”.

    many times it will cause a moment of contemplation for them. It seems so many of them are happy to have someone else go to the Cross for their salvation- but they are unwilling to endure any discomfort themselves.

  • mike moore

    Next time, with a smile on your face and with giggle in your voice, tell ’em to STFU or you’ll have your coven put a hex on them.

  • Natalie


  • Jill H

    I’m pretty sure I am that to my co-worker…today. Keeps me humble.

  • Don Rappe

    Amen! well said, Lymis.

  • Problem is, if others hadn’t been inclusive of me when I was a fundamentalist, I may never have been freed from my close-minded thinking. That said, I was not rabid…Introverts just don’t go that way. 🙂

  • FishFinger

    Those are not the reasons Obama is evil, though. His drone strikes kill hundreds of innocent civilians in the Middle East. I can’t imagine anyone supporting this man.

  • Ric

    Did you see that you made “The Anti-Evangelical Hate Machine” LIST?! He didn’t even link your site! You should petition him to add your site to his article. If he’s going to misrepresent you he should at least link back to your actual site. (No just huffpo).


  • n.

    I don’t get the drones thing because i think he’s otherwise a decent man. Really want to know what he was thinking with that. In some yrs when memoirs come out, etc. Meanwhile keep pressuring and petitioning for that to stop…

    The thing is that Romney is WAY more evil. Like by a LOT. Like it’s his whole platform, not just an aberration.

  • FishFinger

    Yeah, Hitler was a pretty chill dude too, if it wasn’t for the whole Holocaust thing. The drone strikes are not just some “aberration”, they should be the first thing considered when choosing a candidate.

    And I’m not saying Romney is any better; after all, he publicly declared himself to be an Obama supporter when it comes to the drones. But there are other candidates.

  • mike moore

    unfortunate but true, voting for another candidate is pretty meaningless, and if you happen to live in a state where your vote can make a difference, I think it’s better to clinch your teeth, hold your nose, and vote for whomever is the lesser of two evils.

    For my part, I’ll voted for Obama, happily, because he’s ending wars rather than trying to start them, and he is trying to help, rather than hurt, those less fortunate in our society.

  • FishFinger

    Well, do what you know best. If I were you, though, I would rather not have blood on my hands.

    However, I’m pretty sure if enough “lesser evilists” came together, they could easily give a third candidate a chance of winning. Oh well.

  • mike moore

    tone is hard to convey in a comment section, so know I say this is the spirit of true conversation …. with the exception of kids too young to have any say in what goes on in this world, don’t we all have blood on our hands? I know I do.

    I didn’t chain myself to the White House fence when Iraq was attacked. I didn’t join any non-violent actions at the Supreme Court to try and force the close of Guantanamo. I haven’t – since the 80’s/90’s anyway – been arrested for non-violent protest of our country’s bloody actions. I watched, with pleasure, honestly, as Hussein, Ghaddafi, and Bin Laden were taken out. And if you could see me, you’d know for damn sure I haven’t gone on any hunger strikes for any kind of cause.

    I don’t know you, but I know I’ve yet to meet a person who doesn’t, in one way or another, have some blood on their hands.

  • Kristen

    First of all, I have just recently discovered your blog through Huffington Post and I have thus far found it refreshing, intellectually stimulating, and it has brought me relief that there are other Christians out there who believe as I do. You say something in this blog post that I would love to hear your thoughts on further (or if you’ve already written this blog post, hopefully I’ll be able to find it soon): “what I really believe is that as a belief system Christianity is so perfect, and so efficacious, that whether or not it’s actually “true” is irrelevant.” I would absolutely love to hear your thoughts on this statement, as it’s something I’ve been pondering as of late. Thank you for your wonderful posts.

  • Sure, yes, I just in essence wrote on this very thing. Thanks for asking:

    The Rational Genius of Christianity.

  • misdirection

    My Uncle is a ultra-conservative Seventh-Day Adventist monster to begin with. I was abused for 6 years after my mother died. He’s mentally, verbally, and physically abusive.

    Believe me, I want to get even. But as a born again Christian I need to learn how to forgive. It’s very difficult when someone was abused for 6 years. Vengeance galvanize your heart warm and it seems to be the only viable option to do so. Old ultra-conservative people don’t learn anything. I hope someday when they get old they will taste their own medicine at the nursing home. It’s not easy to forgive, no it’s not. This is not a salvation issue.

    Seventh-Day Adventist is the only religion I BITTERLY HATE!

  • Wendy H

    I’m loving this blog… I am an interesting dichotomy of things. I am from San Francisco, a veteran, a born again Christian who is pretty much left of center. Oh, and not at all a dickweed. I could totally be crucified and judged by my own church members (if any of them ever talked to me- i go to a church with about 10,000). The Jesus I know was all about the poor and sinners. He hated “good religious people”. He didn’t even die for them. So, every time they poo-poo someone’s actions whatever they are, they are forgetting “but such were some of you”. I pay attention to the environment because one of the first things God said in Eden was “tend the garden”. Take care of earth. Just passin’ through. I think Evangelical leaders are paid off spokesmen of GOP lobbyists.