Michael Voris Attempts…

…to mainstream a Paranoid Conspiracy Theorist  by conducting an hour long challenge-free, wink-and-nod, chuckle-about-those-silly-critics infomercial for E. Michael Jones, who has been obsessing about the Jew Menace for years as well as giving a welcome for the egregious Robert Sungenis as an intellectual ally to do the same.

This is not too surprising since I reported on this poisonous pal-liance in January when a reader wrote:

I thought you might be interested to know that Marc Brammer, the Opus Dei supernumerary who funds RealCatholicTV, is starting a new think tank, the Institute for New Media, for which he plans to hire E. Michael Jones.

Yes, that E. Michael Jones. The one who claims St. Paul’s authority when he calls Jews “enemies of the entire human race.” Brammer’s fondness for him perhaps helps to explain why he funds videos like Voris’s SSPX-style rant claiming the Jews are a race, not a religion.

Brammer made this announcement in a radio interview in October 2011–you can hear him mention Jones at 45:55:


It sounds like Brammer, at the time of this interview, was already planning his exit strategy from RealCatholicTV. If you continue listening after 45:55, you will hear him explain that the Institute for New Media will not quote the Bible or the Catechism, and so–he says this explicitly–it will not need to be under the jurisdiction of abishop. At about 54 minutes in, he says that this institute will be in the form of an Internet content-delivery platform, a la RealCatholicTV.
I recommend listening to the interview in its entirety, as Brammer describes his Opus Dei membership, his friendship and financial support of Voris, and his planned new institute in great detail. Among other things, he claims to have a mandate from the Vatican to first “purify” the Church and then change the world. He also says that his new institute will explore how to reform capitalism, and he sees a connection between Islamic banking and Catholic social teaching.

About 50 minutes into the interview, Brammer goes into detail about why it is not in his interest to be in a bishop’s jurisdiction. He believes he can have more influence on people without having to work within the institutional church.

Some of us see the development of a completely unaccountable lay “ministry” that delivers itself of crackpot opinions about Jews and labors to make sure that the bishop cannot rein it in as not an altogether happy development in American Catholic life. But of course, my reader’s concern is only explicable by the one size fits all “It’s a Conspiracy by Damn Libruls to Silence the 100% Orthodox Truthtellers” template. It couldn’t possibly be that demagogic Conservative Folk Heros like Voris pose a danger to the Church’s witness.

Just to be clear, this interview was not due to Voris just happening to run across Jones and thinking he’d be a good chat. This interview is due to the fact that he was a partner with Brammer and Brammer was, at the time of shooting, business partners with Jones.  [Update: With the birth of ChurchMilitant, Voris has "severed" formal ties with Brammer and Jones.  You know, like he "obeyed" his bishop by getting "Catholic" out of the name of his apostolate--eventually.  Now we are to pretend this puff piece doesn't exist, according to ubiquitous Voris shill Christine Niles, who parachutes into every blog thread that dares to blaspheme the Dear Leader of the Cult].

Let us be clear about what is happening here. Michael Voris, Folk Hero to the Utterly Undiscerning, is working hard in this video to mainstream somebody

Jim Stone shows Israel Behind Fukashima Disaster
The European Jewish Union Exonerating Everything Jewish
Jewish Child Molesters
Mossad Involvement in 9/11
Jewry’s push for War with Iran
Jewish Atzmon Says Merah Was a Mossad False Flag Agent
and, last but not least, E. Michael Jones: Who is the World’s Real Enemy? (Guess who?)
(For a full catalog of Sungenis’ vast corpus of crazy statements about the Jews, go here.)

That is who Voris is here attempting to mainstream.

It will be interesting to see how long fanboys of Voris’ dangerous demagoguery will go on defending this or drinking this poison because “He has some good things to say you know”. Sadly, a lot of Trads (though not all) see anti-semitism as a feature, not a bug. What worries me is how many non-Traddy conservative Catholics, who regard Voris as a Bold Truthtelling Folk Hero, will embrace this poisonous puff piece for Jones *because* it is morally repellent in a confused attempt to spit on PC pieties. This is, after all, what Voris trades in: defiantly telling “liberals” to drop dead and exulting in whatever offends liberal sensibilities. The problem is, when you start navigating by “what offends my enemy” rather than “what pleases God” you sooner or later wind up spitting on something good, merely because it is important to your enemy. The dignity of the human person–including the Jewish human person–is good. Anti-semitism is evil. It is not part of the Tradition. It is merely old sin. To recap:

Although the Church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God, as if this followed from the Holy Scriptures. All should see to it, then, that in catechetical work or in the preaching of the word of God they do not teach anything that does not conform to the truth of the Gospel and the spirit of Christ.

Furthermore, in her rejection of every persecution against any man, the Church, mindful of the patrimony she shares with the Jews and moved not by political reasons but by the Gospel’s spiritual love, decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone.

Besides, as the Church has always held and holds now, Christ underwent His passion and death freely, because of the sins of men and out of infinite love, in order that all may reach salvation. It is, therefore, the burden of the Church’s preaching to proclaim the cross of Christ as the sign of God’s all-embracing love and as the fountain from which every grace flows.

5. We cannot truly call on God, the Father of all, if we refuse to treat in a brotherly way any man, created as he is in the image of God. Man’s relation to God the Father and his relation to men his brothers are so linked together that Scripture says: “He who does not love does not know God” (1 John 4:8).

No foundation therefore remains for any theory or practice that leads to discrimination between man and man or people and people, so far as their human dignity and the rights flowing from it are concerned.

The Church reproves, as foreign to the mind of Christ, any discrimination against men or harassment of them because of their race, color, condition of life, or religion. On the contrary, following in the footsteps of the holy Apostles Peter and Paul, this sacred synod ardently implores the Christian faithful to “maintain good fellowship among the nations” (1 Peter 2:12), and, if possible, to live for their part in peace with all men,(14) so that they may truly be sons of the Father who is in heaven.

No thanks to Brammer’s, Voris’, Jones’ and Sungenis’ “purification” of the Church and their work of mainstreaming Jones’ kooky and dangerous ideas. I’ll take the Holy Spirit’s work instead.

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  • Karl

    Can we define “antisemitism”, please?

    • Dan C

      Two questions:

      1) Does the inquisitor find Jones or Sungenis or both as anti-semitic?
      2) What is the purpose of such an inquiry?

      • Ted Seeber

        Anybody who claims “Jews are a race not a religion” and then uses them as a race to hate them, is anti-semitic.

        The curious part is the number of people of *other* semitic religions that do this, such as the Arabs.

    • Mike

      Absolutely not! It is far more useful to keep it flexible. Sort of like “extremist”

    • Millicent

      It is very simple, hatred of the Jews.

  • http://www.dailybread.net.nz Brendon

    Perhaps we could start with a definition of semitism? What is a semitist?

    • Keith Strohm

      I’m really not sure if Karl and Brandon are asking serious questions, but anti-semitism is the philosophy or point of view(hence the “ism” in that word). Someone who embraces that point of view is an anti-semite, because the subject of that point of view is someone who is jewish (i.e., a semite).

      If you’re asking what actions/belief constitute anti-semitism, I think we might soon be entering into the kind of hair-splitting that causes people to ask “how do you define torture…” I think history has given us numerous examples of what anti-semitism sounds and looks like.

      • Mark Shea

        Exactamundo. The perplexed “Golly what *is* X?” definition game is the favorite refuge of people who are trying to nickel and dime their way out of facing the bleeding obvious.

        • Nicole

          Yes, yes, and yes. I’ve had to defriend several Catholic Facebook folks because of their blatant hatred of Jews, and gently scold a few more for their not-so-veiled distaste for Jews. I have seen this coming, and it’s particularly scary to me, because I see the Jewish people just taking a pounding from pretty much all political quarters. Also speaking as someone who has been on the receiving end of the “religious nut” accusation, I can confirm Mark’s theory that a tell tale harbinger of the presence of any “ism” is the “Well, that depends on how you define _________. ” Those who hold my Catholicism in contempt will invariably try to tell me that it’s not Catholicism they hate, but a particular KIND of Catholic. There is always an attempt there to make a subcategory so that their prejudice looks less like a blanket and more like a hankie.

      • Ted Seeber

        I would point out that Jews aren’t the only semites. Someday I’m going to have to look up the origin of the word- because it covers MANY middle eastern peoples.

        • Rosemarie


          “Semite” derives from Shem, the son of Noah. The Bible says that Jews are descended from him, as are many other Middle Eastern nationalities, including the Arabs who descend from Abraham’s son Ishmael and so are related to the Jews, but not through the covenant line that ran through Isaac (not Ishmael) and Jacob. It’s all there in Genesis.

          The term “antisemitism,” however, was coined to refer specifically to hatred or suspicion of Jews. That has continued to be its meaning ever since. Arguments like, “But wouldn’t hatred of Arabs also be antisemitism, since they’re Semites, too?” ignore the history of the word. It was not coined to refer to hatred toward Arabs or any other descendents of Shem, just toward the Jewish people. That’s not to say that hatred of Arabs doesn’t exist, just that it’s not covered by the term antisemitism.

        • http://ecben.wordpress.com Will

          Well, if YOU want to back in time and tell Marr and Steinschneider that they picked the wrong name for their ideology, be my guest.
          Oh, and “atoms” are not indivisible.

  • Sally Wilkins

    Thank you, Mark

  • http://www.chesterton.org Sean P. Dailey

    Karl and Brendon: seriously?

    • Tim

      Depends on how you define “seriously”?

  • http://none Froilan

    OK this has got to stop. You think this is easy for me – a person who just happens to be a big fan of both Voris and Shea? Yes, people like me exist! I watch RealCatholicTV and I read this excellent blog as well and have found both to be informative and enjoyable.

    I would really like for the two of you to meet up and have a talk or a debate about the Faith and about what you think he’s doing that is going against the Faith.

    The last thing we need is two Catholics who are pretty much fighting for the same side bickering about what they think the other is up to.

    I’ve met Voris when he arrived in NZ recently and I asked him what he thought about you Mr Shea. He doesn’t seem to have that much of an opinion of you, though he knows about you – he said he’s not met you, hence the no opinion. He said you called his office a few times to talk to him. Well, he’s in Australia now and should be back in Detroit in a month’s time, so try and catch up with him. Or create a video inviting him to a debate. Anything! Just meet up and talk!

    P.S. He’s a big fan of Bad Catholic as well and told me he wanted to have him on his show! There! Now you have a reason!

    • Claire

      Completely agree with you, Froilan!

    • Mark Shea

      I’ve never called to talk to him. I did have a couple of conversations with Simon Rafe. And I have written them a couple of times when I thought they were out of line. No response. I think this promotion of Jones’ and the attempt to mainstream him is way out of line. So I’m making my bleat about it.

    • Ted Seeber

      “I would really like for the two of you to meet up and have a talk or a debate about the Faith and about what you think he’s doing that is going against the Faith.”

      I’m a fan of both too, and I’d love to see this. HOWEVER- I doubt it will ever happen. Michael Voris is the type to not let his bubble of “I’m right” be pierced that easily.

    • Steve

      Hear hear, Froilan! Why the Vorris bashing is beyond me.

      • Mark Shea

        See the updated version of this post.

      • Millicent

        Because he is a Whited Sepulcher and a Pharisee. He spews hate and doens’t have a clue about the Gospel. We are not under the law, we are under grace. That man does not understand that.

    • Millicent

      Voris is a rabid lunatic. I even doubt he is saved. He knows nothing about salvation except that Jesus Christ is the Savior. He evidently doesn’t read the Bible or he would recognize his “religious spirit” that controls him. Martin Luther was kicked out of the RC Church when he was given a Bible and discovered that it is only Faith in Jesus Christ that saves you. He tried to get them to rid themselves of all the paganism in the Church which they refused to do. Hence people who believe him became his followers. He never wanted them to call themselves Lutherans, but they did anyway. Voris’ latest hate filled rant calls Protestants atheists. Voris is really a pathetic individual in much need of conversion and prayer. When one is saved, the HS takes up residence in him. The HS makes His presence known to you. You will be aware that something within you is different. The RC church is not “the one true church”. It was the only one for 1500 years and despite all the paganism Constantine brought into the Church when he made it a state religion and declared himself the FIRST POPE, Christianity survived. Christianity is not a denomination. It is a personal relationship with the Risen Lord through the HS. How many Catholics have any of the gifts of the H.S.? How many are praying in tongues, have the gift of prophecy or interpretation of tongues? How many have seen heavenly things like glory clouds? Denominational churches have no idea of God and have put Him in a box. Ask Jesus to come into your heart and save you. That my friends is Salvation.

  • http://peace Puck

    I would like to point out that the term “secular Jew” is meaningful and used a lot, while the term secular Christian has no meaning.

    • Mark Shea

      I would say it’s an apt description for, oh, Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Andrew Sullivan, Madonna, and Lady Gaga offhand.

    • Maiki

      Have you never heard the term “culturally Catholic”? How is that different?

  • http://peace Puck

    funny…they don’t look secular Jewish.

    • Mark Shea

      Heh. Secular Christian. There are, in fact, lots of secular Christians.

      • Rosemarie


        While it does seem like an oxymoron (secular is the opposite of religious, and Christianity is a religion) I think it isn’t really a contradiction. A Christian is anyone who is validly baptized, so a baptized person who becomes enamored of secularism rather than practicing his Faith could be called a “secular Christian.” It’s still an odd phrase, but then it’s describing an odd phenomenon.

  • Charlotte

    Wow, I’m so surprised by this development. Not.

  • kenneth

    This guy sounds like the the surplus store owner in “Falling Down.”…..”You and me, we’re the SAME!”….. I guess if someone really wants to “purify” the Church to the “good old days” of 1490s Castile or 19th Century central Europe, it’s all part of the program.

  • Michael

    Wait, this guy Sungenis is taken seriously by people? WHY? Google Robert Sungenis and geocentrism. HE THINKS THE SUN GOES AROUND THE EARTH. This is not a serious human being.

  • http://peace Puck

    Only by your definition Mark – not self-described. Judaism can be as much a nation as it is a faith.

  • http://irishpapist.blogspot.com/ Maolsheachlann O Ceallaigh

    I’ve seen some of Michael Voris’s “The Vortex” videos on Youtube. I don’t think he has much respect for his audience– he displays simplified captions of what he’s saying, in case you’re finding it hard to keep up with his monologue.

    • Steve

      the above statement is a lana caprina

  • http://stevenadunn.wordpress.com Steven A. Dunn

    Of course there’s a Jewish conspiracy to rule the world, Mark! The men all wear the SAME KIND OF HAT. Need I go on? (I’ll go on.) The hats are also DIFFERENT FROM OURS. I rest my case.

  • http://stevenadunn.wordpress.com Steven A. Dunn

    I think you need to get Sungenis into the David Icke snake alien global conspiracy stuff. I’m tired of dealing w rad trad anti-Semites. I want my hateful paranoid body-of-Christ-hurting kooks to really stand out. Plus I can’t wait for YouTube videos about “real Catholics” needing to believe Obama is a snake monster from outer space.

  • EastSideHunky

    You’re kidding right, about being unaccountable? What do you think the asleep at the wheel of the Conciliar bishops has been the last 45+ years, as the ship was sinking, orders emptying out, children not having a clue what the entire deposit of the Faith is, etc? Seems self-styled “conservative” Catholics have no problem accepting anyone–heretics, sects, the enemies of Christ– outside the Faith, but are purely schismatic when it comes to Traditional, faithful Catholics. Look up “schismatic”…it also means refusing communion with fellow Catholics, a visceral response seen often in AmChurch before and after the illicit “excommunication” lifting of the SSPX bishops.

    • Mark Shea

      You’re just the sort of person Voris is looking for as he builds his cult of personality.

      • Adiutricem

        17 words of pure awesome

        • http://stevenadunn.wordpress.com Steven A. Dunn

          I actually counted them. I don’t know what that says about me.

      • Lizzie

        Bull’s Eye! Thanks for letting us know what Voris is up to. Everytime I hear his name I get creeped out. Then I pray for him because it’s sad really. What a waste of the gifts that God gave him.

        • Dismas

          Lizzie, I agree. I too, am creeped out by Voris videos and believe he misuses his gifts. When viewing his videos I’m always reminded that: poison concealed in the truth of wine is no less deadly; the wine only makes the venom more palatable and it’s lethal effects more stealth.

          “There cannot be faith in the Holy Spirit if there is not faith in Christ, in his sacraments, in his Church. A man cannot act in accordance with his christian faith, cannot truly believe in the Holy Spirit, unless he loves the Church and trusts it. He cannot be a coherent Christian if he limits himself to pointing out the deficiencies and limitations of some who represent the Church, judging her from the outside, as though he were not her son.”
          (Christ is passing by, 130)

      • eugene

        no lizzie,I’ll pray for the success of the ministry of Michael Voris.Also for Mark Shea to humble himself.What is mark up to trying to drum up this anti voris sentiment.Its actually shameful.I would like nothing more than to see apologists going head to head on matters of faith but Mark has to offer is misguided attempts to derail the man.For those who don’t know,Realcatholictv has the blessing of Cardinal Burke…..possibly our next Pope.

        • Millicent

          Michael Voris spews total ignorance about the Gospel and should not open his vile mouth any longer. If you truly understood the Gospel, you would flee from this blowhard.

  • Lisa

    I like Jone’s theory that “Americanism” was to blame church’s relative silence on the Iraq war, etc. I was surprised that he attacked Chaput as an Americaist stooge.

    • Ted Seeber

      I think it’s funny when the right wing claims that the Church was “relatively silent” on the Iraq war, when in reality Blessed Pope John Paul The Great was outright against it.

      • Lisa

        I should have said, “American Catholic Church.” My bishop was certainly pretty quiet. I think he was afraid of the charge of “not supporting the troops.”

  • Ted Seeber

    I post Voris videos to Facebook from time to time- because from time to time I do agree with what he says.

    BUT- and this is a big but- I long ago concluded that Voris was infected with the Republican Brand of the Americanist heresy. When I called him on this (on his Youtube channel, in a video where he was preaching *against* soup kitchens and helping the poor) he claimed I wasn’t actually listening and blocked me before I could post the exact second reference to what I was complaining about.

    Censorship is not the way of an honest internet debater- that’s why An Atheist is still allowed to post here for instance. This tells me Voris isn’t an honest internet debater.

    • ds

      Ted, I like your big but.

    • Spastic Hedgehog

      I know I’m going to regret asking, but he argued against soup kitchens? Can I see a link?

  • Karl

    My question about defining antisemitism was serious. I’ve read scholars arguing that the Fourth Gospel is antisemitic, that the figure of Judas is antisemitic, that praying for the Jews is antisemitic, that Mel Gibson’s movie is antisemitic, that noting Jewish representation in Hollywood is antisemitic…

    I guess I’d just like to know how we’re using the term. I don’t find anything in the Vatican II decree on Judaism to disagree with, but then I’m pretty sure that neither do Jones or Voris.

    • Mark Shea

      Tell you what, find any evidence that I have called any of the stuff you mentioned antisemitic and you’ll have a real point.

      • Karl

        Not saying you did. What I am suggesting is that if you’re going to accuse someone like Jones of being antisemitic, it might be handy if you explained what you mean by that. The mere fact he’s written ABOUT Jews, and the deficiencies of their theological position in light of the Christian revelation, might be enough for the ADL to convict him of antisemitism, but hardly for a Catholic.

      • ds

        This is a legitimate question. If it is somehow “antisemitic” to point out the fact that Jews control the media, how is a fella supposed to convince anyone that they also control all the banks?

    • http://www.virtue-quest.com/ Robert King

      Rosemarie answered this above:

      If that is not clear enough, I’m not sure what would be.

  • Eugenia

    I came back to the Church over ten years ago, discovered Voris, enjoyed his podcasts (boy, was he on fire! as was I) then noticed Voris’ path of preaching Christ was harsh and lacking charity — or that’s what it sounded like — unlike what I was learning through reading about the saints and the apostolate at Catholic Answers and EWTN, just to name a couple. So his brand began to turn me off. Apparently it works for some. I need encouragement in charity not condemnation. The latter is easy.
    From Douay-Rheims: 1 Cor. 13:1: “IF I speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.”

  • Kirt Higdon

    It’s really a shame what happened to Jones. He wrote some insightful – I’d even say brilliant books about aspects of the development of modern culture before taking his twisted turn in the road. Hatred of Jews really rots the brain. That said, “anti-semite”, like “fascist” and “racist”, has become a term so broadly used and misused as to be practically worthless. All you have to do these days to be accused of anti-semitism is make the least criticism of the Israeli regime.

    • Mark Shea
      • Tim

        How was the wine?

      • CF

        The picture they chose is geeeeenius. I see you’re both anti-semitic AND an alcoholic Mark.

        • Mark Shea

          And fat. Don’t forget that. 4F. And I hate our troops *so much* I don’t want them to die just so that neocon chickenhawks can feel cool and powerful.

  • Harry

    What is antisemitism?

    Hmm, not sure. Pretty sure it has something to do with blaming Jews for every problem that Christendom has had over the past 2000 years, having connections with neo-nazi’s, appearing on an Iranian TV show that endorses the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as authentic, being BFF’s with Holocaust Denier’s like Willis Carto and moving in virulently anti-Semitic circles.

    You know, stuff like that.

    But hey! At least he says the right stuff about Our Tribe. Invite him on to RealCatholic Tv! Give him a platform! We shouldn’t have divisions amongst ourselves over a little thing like Jew-hatred.

  • Lisa

    Am I anti-semitic? I believe that it is POSSIBLE that Israeli intelligence helped spread some of the faulty intelligence regarding Iraq’a WMD in order to draw the US into war. This is a story that cannot be investigated or written about by any major news source apart from Al Jazera for fear of the anti-semite tattoo.

    Am I anti-semitic?

    • http://www.pavelspoetry.com Pavel

      Maybe you are. Opposing Israeli policies and goals doesn’t necessarily make you antisemitic, but you might be. Are you? Do you hate, despise, belittle or distrust people because they’re Jewish? Do you think all Jews do and think the same things? Do you intellectually lump all Jews into the same category? Honestly.

      • Lisa

        Pav, I guess you missed the point. I am asking if I am ant-semitic on basis of the staement that I think it’s possible the Mossad played Colin Powel for their policy of “fragmentation” of its Arab neighbors. There is a widespread notion that ANY criticism of Israel ips facto means you are anti-semitic. I think it’s a septic notion.

        • http://www.pavelspoetry.com Pavel

          I was really asking if when you search your heart you find in it a disdain for Jews. It was a personal question. It’s none of my business, I concede. It seems to me though that the Israeli security services and their operations are beside the point in this question. But perhaps I do miss the point.

  • C_Gauthier

    Mark, I recall Father Z. rebuking you on his site regarding your hypocritical obsessions and viciousness towards others. As he said:

    The church is a hospital for sinners and not a resort for saints.

    • Mark Shea

      Your memory is faulty. Though there was this light-hearted post.

      It’s funny how guys like you never take this laissez faire attitude toward, say Pelosi or Biden. That’s because you take their scandalous behavior seriously, but don’t really think Voris’ demagoguery on behalf on anti-semitism is a problem.

  • Sardis

    In light of Voris’ supposed reputation for getting to the bottom of things and showing us all the *real* truth, he is remarkably un-curious in regard to accusations of anti-Semitism against Jones. All he did was ask whether Jones is anti-Semitic and then took his word for it and accepted Jones’ limited and self-serving definition of anti-Semitism. Dennis O’Donovan did basically the same thing in regard to Jones when interviewing Brammer. Here are some facts that seem to have completely eluded the normally hard-hitting, probing Voris:

    For instance, Jones has promoted his personal theories about why Jews are a societal problem to a fellow named “Brother” Nathanael Kapner. The name of the interview was “Jewish Control of the Catholic Mind.”


    Here’s a question and point that I think would have been substantive and legit, especially for supposedly hard-hitting journalist like Voris:

    “Dr. Jones, do you think it was appropriate for you to publicly promote your theories of Jewish depravity to people like Brother Nathanael Kapner and his audience? Kapner believes Jews were behind 9-11. President McKinley was murdered by Jews. President Wilson was blackmailed into WWII by Jews. There’s a piece on his website explaining how the Jews ‘prompted’ the Holocaust and a whole section of articles on ‘the Jewification of America.’ He recently wrote, ‘I now PRESENT MYSELF, Brother Nathanael Kapner, to STOP THIS RUINATION by the Christ-Hating, Constitution-Hating, Freedom Hating Jew, in a major public way.’”

    • Sardis

      (cont’d from above…)

      And this is what Brother Kapner had to say about Jones afterward:

      “It was great working for the first time with E. Michael Jones. He and I really hit it off…Michael is a bit more optimistic than I regarding a change in our society from Jewish control. I really don’t see it changing, in fact, I see it getting worse. The Jews with their militarists, just pulled off another false flag, another ‘terrorist’ hoax, with the panty bomber. The boy got on the plane in Amsterdam without a passport. The Haskells’ testimony was blacked out by the Jew-owned media and Chertoff (I was the FIRST to break this news) is a consultant for Full Body Scanners and will make TONS of bucks from the false flag hoax. Americans, dumbed downed Americans, swallowed this hoax, hook – line – and sinker. The passive masses will now let the Jews take their clothes off in front of them and make millions from naked Americans at airports. AND – MORE FALSE FLAGS ARE COMING for the Dumbed Downed Americans who BELIEVE what the Jews tell them!”

      Can you see why this sort of thing might naturally raise eye-brows, Dr. Jones?

      Might it also naturally raise questions that White Supremacist groups have promoted your writings about Jews?



      • Sardis

        One could also ask Jones about his collaboration with and support of Robert Sungenis. Google Sungenis and Jews. Add in E. Michael Jones after. You’ll find plenty of material there.

        Jones helped Sungenis to spread calumny against his bishop in Culture Wars magazine. Then he published an article defending Sungenis called “Fear of the Jews in Harrisburg.”

        Jones also did an interview with a racist named Peter Schaenk in which he again promoted his theories of Jewish depravity. Here’s a warm note from Schaenk to his white supremacist friends at National Vanguard about his interviews:


        Here’s a comment from “Bill Blass” to Schaenk about the interview with E. Michael Jones:

        “Even though he is not a ‘White Nationalist’ he obviously has some Traditionalist sympathy for ethnic states in the Western/Christian tradition. I wish he would have addressed the issue of how Traditionalist Christians, Nationalist Conservatives, and White Nationalists might work together and tolerate each other’s differences in order to pursue our substantial common interests. Good job, and let’s try to get Jones on again!”

  • Sardis

    (continued from above)

    And this is what Brother Kapner had to say about you afterward, Dr. Jones. What do you think of this?

    “It was great working for the first time with E. Michael Jones. He and I really hit it off…Michael is a bit more optimistic than I regarding a change in our society from Jewish control. I really don’t see it changing, in fact, I see it getting worse. The Jews with their militarists, just pulled off another false flag, another ‘terrorist’ hoax, with the panty bomber. The boy got on the plane in Amsterdam without a passport. The Haskells’ testimony was blacked out by the Jew-owned media and Chertoff (I was the FIRST to break this news) is a consultant for Full Body Scanners and will make TONS of bucks from the false flag hoax. Americans, dumbed downed Americans, swallowed this hoax, hook – line – and sinker. The passive masses will now let the Jews take their clothes off in front of them and make millions from naked Americans at airports. AND – MORE FALSE FLAGS ARE COMING for the Dumbed Downed Americans who BELIEVE what the Jews tell them!”

    Can you see why this sort of thing might naturally raise eye-brows?

    Might it also naturally raise questions that White Supremacist groups have promoted your writings about Jews?



    One could also ask Jones about his collaboration with and support of Robert Sungenis. Google Sungenis and Jews. Add in E. Michael Jones after. You’ll find plenty of material there.

    Jones helped Sungenis to spread calumny against his bishop in Culture Wars magazine. Then he published an article defending Sungenis called “Fear of the Jews in Harrisburg.”

    (more below)

  • Sardis

    Jones also did an interview with a racist named Peter Schaenk in which he again promoted his theories of Jewish depravity. Here’s a warm note from Schaenk to his white supremacist friends at National Vanguard about his interviews:


    Here’s a comment from “Bill Blass” to Schaenk about the interview with E. Michael Jones:

    “Even though he is not a ‘White Nationalist’ he obviously has some Traditionalist sympathy for ethnic states in the Western/Christian tradition. I wish he would have addressed the issue of how Traditionalist Christians, Nationalist Conservatives, and White Nationalists might work together and tolerate each other’s differences in order to pursue our substantial common interests. Good job, and let’s try to get Jones on again!”

    Below are some comments made by Schaenk:

    “I believe there is a White Genocide being carried out by non-Whites on behalf of the New World Order, or more aptly described… The Jew World Order.”

    “The only reason people conduct background checks is to excavate for Mud. Mud slinging, the old Jew tactic…Attack the person, not the message.”

    “It was RIGHT for Alex Linder and [White supremacist] VNN to demonstrate in Knoxville, Tennessee, in order to bring attention to the savage butchering of Christopher Newsom and Channon Christian. In both of these cases, only the so-called “White Supremacist” came to the aid of these victims to do the RIGHT thing…Should I run away from these groups because they believe in the racial superiority of the White race? Is that such a crime against humanity to believe your race is superior to others?”

    “Today, the White race has no choice but to allow non-Whites into their businesses, private clubs, schools and neighborhoods. The net result of this has been rampant crime in once peaceful neighborhoods, the destruction of “Main Street USA”, an ever expanding Police State and soaring taxes.”

    “These theories [about government mind control] are designed to keep people paralyzed and distracted while the Jew World Order continues it’s take over of the West. They have created political movements with the same agenda, to promote chaos and disorder in society.”

    Peter Schaenk http://shankradio.com/

    Then there was “Roy”, who after listening to the interview with E. Michael Jones thought the interview was actually with the notorious anti-Semite Michael Hoffman, rather than Jones, at least until he was corrected by “Maurice”.


    Jones also said this in the interview: “The bigger question is whether we’ve all become Jews by internalizing their rules of discourse.”

    “Their rules of discourse?” As if Jews are all the same? Chuck Schumer and David Horowitz are about as diametrically opposed as two people could be. But they’re both Jews. And what of the Orthodox Jews? Are they covered by the same broad strokes? He speaks of “the Jews” in this broad-brush way on many other occasions. Does that suggest bigotry?

    I think it’s interesting that Schaenk begins the interview segment with Jones by juxtaposing a section of Hitler’s Mein Kampf with Jones’ book. Has Jones ever raised an objection to that? Has he ever repudiated it? If not, why not?

    Then there was this exchange:

    Schaenk: “What is the Jewish relation to Atheism?”

    Jones: “[The Jews] will promote it! Weaken the dominant culture in cultures that are religiously based.”

    Isn’t stereotyping and broad-bushing like this more evidence of bigotry? What of all the religious Jews? The Orthodox? The Chasidim? Why are all “the Jews” are thrown into one bad lump by Jones?

  • http://peace Puck

    Problem I have is that I don’t see “Christians blaming Jews for every problem they have..” And I go to a very conservative church. But I do see the reverse. Read the NYT on any Good Friday.

    • Mark Shea

      And your evidence that the NY Times is controlled by the Jewish Conspiracy is…?

  • http://micaelaswift.blogspot.com micaela swift

    i love mark shea, Michael Voris and I seriously friggin love BadCatholic marc barnes!!!!

  • Reactor

    … whose rhetoric has been condemned by both the Abp of Prague for his outreach to “political extremists, Lefebvrites, nationalists, anti-Semites, Islamists and neo-Nazis.” and by the Catholic League for “outrageously blam[ing] the Jews themselves for the Holocaust and pogroms.”

    You go to the ADL for your information about a fellow Catholic?

    • Mark Shea

      No. I go to the Abp. of Prague and the Catholic League, whose quotes happen to be conveniently placed together on the ADL site. Do you think the quotes are rendered ritually impure due to the site on which they are found?

      So do you have anything of substance to say or are you merely going to complain about ADL cooties? And I notice you have nothing to say about the entire industry Voris has built, attacking fellow Catholics.

      • Christopher Sarsfield


        Are you going to include John Rao in your condemnation as well? You do know that both Dr. Rao and Dr. Jones were mentioned in the Archbishop’s “condemnation”? You did read the bishop’s statement right?
        With regard to the site mentioning Dr. Jones on the Iranian TV show. First the site admits that Dr. Jones said nothing that would stir up controversy on the show. Second he says Dr. Jones was publishing traditionalist magazines since the 80s. Well that would be a surprise to all the traditionalists that Fidelity went after in the eighties.

        • Mark Shea

          I take it then you agree with Jones’ thesis that Jews are the enemies of mankind? Yes or no, please.

          • Christopher Sarsfield


            No I do not believe the Jews are the enemy of mankind. However, I do not think that this statement of Dr. Jones is heretical or racist:

            “The Revolutionary Jew, it must be emphasized, is not our enemy because of some occult racial inheritance. The Revolutionary Jew is our enemy because he has rejected Logos. This means that Jews, to the extent that they honor and revere Logos, are not our enemies.”

            I believe the Church does have enemies and I believe that the basis of their enmity with the Church is the rejection of Christ and His Blessed Mother. “And this is the judgment: because the light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the light: for their works were evil.” John 3:19

            In the Heart of Jesus and Mary,

            • Mark Shea

              So because he doesn’t do it for *racial* reasons, Jones’ hatred of the Jew as the Enemy of Mankind is okay?

            • Sardis

              Again, it seems to me that Jones’ theory of Jewish depravity here is little more than a thinly veiled attempt to rationalize and intellectualize bigotry against Jews under the guise of quasi-theology. In a way his theory is arguably more insidious than straight-up racial anti-Semitism because it tries to co-opt Catholic theology in an effort broad-brush an entire people.

  • Debra C.

    Why so much controversy with Nostra Aetate? It’s an incredibly small document

    • Christopher Sarsfield


      Because it is read out of context as if it were part of a “super Council” and as if it was a “rupture” from all that came before it.

      • Pete Davis

        And some prefer to think it had no authority which is why the SSPX should NEVER be allowed back in en masse.

        Debra: The link you sent is quite revealing. So, E. Michael Jones gets taken down in Europe by the archbishop of Prague. And there was a blackout in The South Bend Tribune? Hmmmmm….

        • Mark Shea

          You assume the South Bend Tribune has ever heard of him.

  • eugene

    I just spent a little more than an hour watching the E michael Jones interview as well as other works by jones.I have seen quite a few of the Voris videos and have always tried to listen to the message that is put out there,not only by Voris,but by by apologists ( if that is the correct term) in general.When I come to a site/blog such as this one,it is quite disheartening to read the negativity towards Voris and Jones.I fail to see any kind of criticism based on catholic theology or catechism.What I do see is lots of effeminate,touchy feely sentiment ..”.Oh,I don’t like his tone ,he’s too harsh,he doesn’t respect his audience blah blah” My take is “get a grip” Truth is not about coffee and doughnuts.If the truth sounds offensive,so be it but it does not change.CHALLENGE THE MAN’S THEOLOGY.Personally,I don’t know what mark shea has to offer.I know about his conversion to Catholicism,and his book,…now what? Catholic laity needs to be educated in solid catholic theology so so could someone qualified (mark shea)step up to the plate and feed those lambs who need to be fed.

    • Mark Shea

      You believe it is the “truth” that the Jew is the Enemy of Mankind and is to blame for the Holocaust? You believe that this comports with Nostra Aetate?

      If so, you are exactly the sort of idiot Voris and Jones and seeking as they build their sect. In particular, your confusion of courage with brutality and charity with effeminacy will make you a useful idiot.

      • eugene

        back to the sissified name calling,eh.How charitable.You have nothing to offer Mark Shea and you’ve proved it once again.As I have said,the catholic laity needs to be educated in solid theology so if you the knowledge,step up and do it.One more thing,it does not mean that because one watches the vortex,one automatically agree with every word that comes out of the mouth of Voris.
        Not so long ago,Mark Shea,Jimmy Akin and Scott Hahn appeared on the catholic apologetics scene and many catholics hung on their every word .Hahn went on to be a good and faithful servant of the church.Jimmy Akin went on to do his apologetics bit and is still busy at it.Mark Shea? …IDK man,went off the rails somewhere along the line.
        Good luck man

  • http://thecuriouscatholic.blogspot.com/ theCuriousCatholic

    Just wanted to note that Brammer doesn’t say the Vatican told him anything, he says, “WE got our marching orders from Rome…” It’s an Opus Dei trick to make people think they are talking about the Pope or the Vatican, but they are talking about Opus Dei, headquartered in Rome.

    Next, look where this “Institute” is being built. What he is really building is the largest Opus Dei Center outside of NYC. Listen to the very end where he refers to building “dormitories for the brothers,” I believe.


    Also , note the commercial he does for Islam, reference banking methods. I’ve been working on my next video which is actually an answer to Voris’ “The Jews.” Hard to believe he can be THAT wrong is SUCH a short space of time!

    Nice post.

  • j. blum

    Going back aways in the comments, it was proposed that “secular Christian” is oxymoronic. I, who am merely moronic, must disagree. Not only are most Christians “secular,” so are most clergy. Your parish priest, the deacons at your church, your bishop and others the world over are “secular clergy.”. As opposed to “regular” clergy like Dominicans, Benedictines, Franciscans, so on. Thank you for letting me quibble.

  • http://revertconvert.blogspot.com susie

    What a family. It’s like both the old ‘drunk’ uncles from both sides of the family at Thanksgiving wound up here. I’m so glad for Purgatory, and if we all make it there, I pray we do, then Heaven will be even more glorious because all this bashing of everyone, about everyone, from everyone will cease. I post Vortex videos now and then, and I used to hear Shea on Catholic Answers years ago when my husband and I returned to the CC. I don’t understand the gripes and the ‘bitching’ by everyone. I have learned from both guys over the years. I learned from Corapi, too, God help him. I take what is ‘good’ and throw out the bones/gristle since we ALL FALL SHORT of being PERFECT. Jesus Pure Love incarnate, spoke pure love, and had no guile, but yet people hated him, and thought he was a blasphemer. Just what does “love” sound like, Mark? Voris’s style isn’t for everyone, but surely Mark’s isn’t either. I don’t hear ‘gentleness, sweetness and light and meekness’ outta Mark all the time. Let’s face it, personalities are what they are. St. Jerome pissed off a lot of folks, too. But am I a Jew hater because I agree, from time to time with Voris? Evidently I missed the fact that Voris is a hater of the Catholic Church, and is ‘anti-Semitic’ – which makes me, (a Catholic convert who’s ‘utterly undiscerning and nothing more than a useful idiot’ according to Mark. Ok. Whatever. Boy! EGOS are damn ugly! We all have one to wage war against to varying degrees. Even so, COME LORD JESUS! … Then hallelujah! Everyone and their egos will shut the hell up!

  • Johann

    What a load of garbage. “Antisemitism” doesn’t mean “criticism of the jews.” Jones took off the rose colored glasses and reported the plain facts that everyone can see but few are brave enough to verbalize or even acknowledge. This racial group is ideologically committed and subconciously united in undermining Western civilization and Christianity and has been for 2000 years. You and people like you have been socially conditioned and propagandized to recoil with fear and fury if anyone even suggests that the Jews have behaved with less than saintly chairty. Wake up and grow up.

    • Mark Shea

      Excerpted from the textbook “How Not to Defend E. Michael Jones and Michael Voris”. Available from Stormfront Press.

  • Bryan

    I had not heard of Michael Voris until reading this blog of Mark Shea’s. Mark, you have a great blog here and I have found many of your writings very humorous and insightful. Please keep up the good work.

    I am a cradle-baptized-but-now-marginal Catholic who does not currently attend Mass regularly. However, I have a strong belief in God and Scripture, and I do sympathize with traditional “orthodox” Catholics and perhaps even the “Rad Trads” (a lot of this nomenclature is new to me). As an undisciplined person, I like a religion that requires something from me in the way of ritual and adherence. I also like incense and Latin. What can I say? In the United States of Zombieland, you gotta enjoy the little things.

    I also have a great respect for the Jewish tradition. Before I logged onto the internet, I didn’t know I wasn’t supposed to do that. In fact I have strongly considered converting to Orthodox Judaism more than once in my years of spiritual wanderings and even engaged a Rabbi on the matter. I still keep torah.org and Lord Chief Rabbi Sacks’ web pages bookmarked and enjoy reading them both.

    Mr. Shea, your reader’s characterization of that first video from Mr.Voris, the Vortex segment, as an “SSPX-style rant claiming Jews are a race, not a religion,” is hyperbolic and seems to me quite false. Must everything from both sides of every debate nowadays be discussed in terms of “nuts” “loons” “rants” “tirades” etc? We’re talking about blog posts and internet video clips, for Pete’s sake. Even if he is 100% wrong, Mr. Voris speaks calmly, lucidly and from a well-established religious point of view, at least in that particular clip.

    And in fact, his explication of the Jewish race-or-religion topic itself–apart from whether modern Judaism is the same as pre-Christian Judaism–is not controversial at all. It is the exact same explanation one would get from any Orthodox Jewish authority. Modern Judaism is a religion but, since it is passed on matrilineally through virtue of birth, it can be considered an “ethnicity” as well. In fact there is no intellectually-honest way around the notion that Orthodox Judaism’s conception of itself does indeed have much in common with the scientific concept of biological race that originated in the 19th century. That is a self-definition from within modern Jewish authority.

    As for the statements on Jewish religious tradition, for the most part his (Mr. Voris) is the standard Orthodox Christian view: that the Church, since the time of Our Lord’s time on earth, represents the never-broken Covenant between God and Abraham and that Christ’s Church began its own life as a Jewish group. Even the “controversial” religious claims of Mr. Voris are hardly incendiary. Within Judaism itself there is debate over the continuity of modern Orthodox Judaism and the religious practices of, say, Israelites of the Mosaic era (or the Mishnaic era for that matter). Of course Jewish people do not view their modern religion as “man-made” but at that point we’re discussing the basic irreducible difference that every major religion holds against every other major religion, including that between atheists and believers of any faith. Have you heard of the Karaites? They are a thoroughly and historically-recognized Jewish group, and their distinguishing claims essentially mirror that of Mr. Voris except they do not belief in Jesus as the Messiah. As modern practicing Jews they too reject “Rabbinical Judaism” as developed for at least the last 1500 years.

    Now, from the links you have posted I will say that this Jones fellow–who I had also never heard of heretofore–does indeed seem extreme and bigoted in his rhetoric and not helpful to the service of the Church’s mission. I am in a very slow process of returning to the Church myself and although I am politically conservative and currently far more sympathetic toward Catholic traditionalists than modern Catholic “liberals,” reading some of the opinions such as this Jones fellow holds gives me pause. I don’t like that.

    Thanks again for your blog.

    • Bryan

      Actually, let me correct myself since I typed that before I had my coffee.

      It is not accurate for me to say that the explanation of Judaism-as-race-or-religion from Mr. Voris is exactly what one would get from any modern Orthodox Jewish source. But that is because he does not really give any such explanation at all. That was my initial point in responding: he does not claim anywhere in that video that Judaism is a “race, not a religion.” He describes a relatively uncontroversial–outside of Orthodox Jewish tradition–theory of disconnect between the religious practices of the pre-Christians Jews and what has developed since then. Mr Voris is wrong, by the way, when he describes Temple and sacrifice as the distinguishing features of pre-Christian Judaism, but that is nether here nor there.

      It is, however, modern Orthodox Judaism which “ethnically” or “racially” delimits its self-definition by virtue of its belief in matrilineal descent of the religion.

      So basically my point was that your reader incorrectly–and hyperbolically, in my opinion–ascribes to Mr. Voris an opinion he does not give in that particular video, and one which in fact is accepted uniformly by Orthodox Jewish authorities themselves. Simply put, Judaism is a religion and an ethnicity both. Modern (Orthodox) Jewish people of course claim their religion is the same as that of the Israelites under Moses, but even among modern Jewish folks outside of orthodoxy (Conservative Jews, Reform Jews, Karaite Jews) there is an acknowledged disconnect between the ancient Israelites and their own modern religion.

      Sorry to go on and on. Thanks again.

  • Christine Niles

    Mr. Shea,
    Voris & Brammer are no longer business partners. This ended as soon as Voris started ChurchMilitant.TV in June 2012. You were informed of this months ago. Why do you continue to mislead people into thinking what is false?

    In fact, contrary to your statements above, Voris has NEVER been business partners with E. Michael Jones. You were also informed of this months ago.

    You need to take down this post, revise it, or put a very large disclaimer at the top updating it to reflect the truth.

    As to the rest, I have said this before and will repeat it: it is calumny to claim Michael Voris is anti-semitic. However you wish to connect the dots in your imagination, it remains calumny, because it is false, period.

    Regardless of your personal animus against Voris (which borders on obsessive, judging by the dozens of posts in which his name is mentioned on your blog over the years), it is ALWAYS wrong to defame another man’s good name by false statements.

    CCC 2477: Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury. He becomes guilty:

    - of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;

    - of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another’s faults and failings to persons who did not know them;

    - of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.

  • Indyann

    Working overtime today, Mr. Niles?

  • PMA Akron, Ohio

    Curious, how many of you who are against Michael Voris are Post Vatican II. I love listening to him. I remember the days when the Catholic church was a pillar in the community and America. Now . . . a joke . Voris spells it out why. Look at it like this, all of us here, on this board, have no idea what it was like in the, oh, 10th cnetury. So, I have no idea what culture was like then. I, though, was brought up in the Catholic church pre VatII. The change is PROFOUND and not a good profound. Those of you born post VatII grew up in a very diluted version of a GREAT faith filled Catholic church. Pope JPII started the ball rolling to turn this mess around.