If we won’t let Esther speak, at least listen to Mordecai

Ruth Moon at Her•meneutics introduces us to Lee Grady, an editor at Charisma magazine and founder of The Mordecai Project.

The purpose of this ministry is to (1) confront the global oppression of women; (2) empower women to discover their God-given spiritual gifts and ministries; and (3) equip Christian men, including church leaders, to recognize, value, protect and train the women in their lives. This mission is accomplished through books, preaching, mentoring, leadership conferences, ministerial retreats and television programs in various languages.

King Ahasuerus had binders full of women.

I’m happy to learn of The Mordecai Project — although not nearly as happy as I would be to learn of The Esther Project.

But still, this is a positive step, particularly given that most conservative evangelical “books, preaching, mentoring, leadership conferences, ministerial retreats and television programs” seem to be supporting The Ahasuerus Project — or even The Haman Coalition — when it comes to the spiritual gifts and ministries of women.

* * * * * * * * *

In an insightful discussion of readers’ assumptions, and how those shape how we read Genesis, Scot McKnight writes:

Example: in teaching Genesis 3 over the years I found the serpent talking an opportunity to explore assumptions. Some assume this happened — as the text says — so they think either that there were snakes with voice boxes or that God did a miracle. Others assume — because they know science and snakes — that, since snakes don’t talk, the incident in Genesis 3 is taking on fictional/mythic dimensions. Discovering assumptions, sometimes knowing it is hard to admit, is important for reading Genesis.

I’m not sure that “snakes don’t talk” is an assumption that some of us bring to the text as much as it is simply an undeniable fact about snakes. So, yes, count me among those who assume — or, rather, conclude — that a story featuring a talking snake “is taking on fictional/mythic dimensions.”

But McKnight’s post now has me thinking about the assumptions of the other approach — the creationist notion that this a literal, historical account of a snake literally, historically talking because “God did a miracle.”

The assumption there isn’t as interesting as the implication: that God chose to intervene miraculously to enable the serpent to tempt Eve. That pretty much makes the serpent God’s hand-puppet or ventriloquist’s dummy.

And that changes the story, literally.

* * * * * * * * *

Sometimes the blogosphere is smaller than you think.

This post from Hemant Mehta at The Friendly Atheist — “Atheists: Stop Making a Big Deal Out of Nothing” — struck me as a smart piece of advice that reminded me, more than anything else, of evangelical blogger Jon Acuff’s occasional warnings against “The Jesus Juke.”

That seemed interesting. Those are two bloggers I admire and enjoy reading, but they come from two very different perspectives. Yet they share a similar objection to the kind of graceless proselytization that elevates an agenda over people.

But before I got around to writing about that, I read this post two days later at The Friendly Atheist — “Jesus Is Not Better Than the SpaceJump,” in which Hemant appropriately facepalms in response to comments from Mark Driscoll, writing “That’s not even a subtle Jesus Juke …” and links to the post by Jon Acuff above.

Worlds collide, but in a good way. This makes me happy.

* * * * * * * * *

Sojourners says “Meet the Nones.” This is an interesting collection of stories — “personal testimonies,” even — of people from the 20 percent of Americans who make up the “nones,” or the religiously unaffiliated. Sojo is also interested in hearing your story, and sharing it with others. Got a story to tell? Let ’em know.

Scott Paeth takes up the challenge of theological science fiction with a fun portrait of life after the big scientific/Calvinist break-through of a paternity test for the elect.

• At Cheesewearing Theology, a post about Christian apocalyptic theology and how it relates to Buffy the Vampire Slayer and to Doctor Who. Now I’m entertaining a theory that Amanda MacInnis doesn’t so much write blog posts, but instead uses a topic-generating algorithm even better than those used by Google, Netflix and Amazon and “Thoughts on the Theme of Apocalyse and the Portrayal of the Nature of Humanity” is what the algorithm created to appeal to me based on my browser history. (To test this theory, I’d have to link to that post from James McGrath’s blog to see if it changed into a post on Christian theology, Doctor Who and Star Wars. …)

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  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    Or Adam and Eve were Parselmouths.  (~_~)b

  • EllieMurasaki

     http://redhen-publications.com/files_to_post/publications/Just-So.pdf –hell with Adam and Eve. Try Lilith.

  • Victor

    gods BE DAMED! I’ve always been lead to believe that Adam And Eve did exist and at one time we GOD’s children were on our way to becoming a family but some positive thinking talking snake in the grass destroyed Adam’s dream of Eve all to get her!

     “IT” appears that “IT” is still going on NOWadays and this so call snake in the grass is more determined than ever to go out into the whole world and free all these woman from Adam. WHAT’S GOING ON LORD?

    Listen folks! I could go on and on, on fire,  in a circle but instead I’ll simply ask, why can’t we be “ONE” family in the name of GOD and learn to get along?

    Hey Victor! ON FIRE IN A CIRCLE YOU SAY? No need to look any further folks cause we’re got our Anti-Christ NOW! :)  http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118061012

    Is there nothing sacred for you sinner vic? :(



  • Tricksterson

    Or the Serpent, a legged reptile (before Yahweh mutilated him and made him crawl on his belly forevermore, not to mention his descendents) who had human level intelligence and spoke was a dragon.

  • http://www.blogger.com/home?pli=1 Coleslaw

    It’s surprising how many people can’t tell the difference between an assumption and a conclusion. One would think being able to do that is fundamental to being able to draw valid conclusions.

  • Fade Manley

    The version of the Talking Snake that I was taught was that Satan, the obligatory bad guy, showed up in the shape of a snake to convince Eve to sin; and, being rather new to the whole world thing, she didn’t realize snakes shouldn’t be able to talk.

    I also heard it told that Adam and Eve used to be able to talk to all the animals before losing their innocence. Or that snakes (and possibly all the animals) were able to talk until the Fall. I think that theory was usually paired with the whole “all the animals were vegetarians until then!” one. Lots of ideas which didn’t have “God did a miracle” as the answer, though none, I admit, particularly convincing in retrospect.

  • The_L

    There’s also the idea that maybe all snakes, or even all animals, could talk pre-Fall, and that the loss of this was part of the cost of The First Sin. But I’m inclined to take that with a pillar of Lot’s wife.

  • AnonymousSam

    The question becomes, if Satan was responsible, then who was responsible for Satan? Satan didn’t really enter into the Bible until the New Testament, as God was generally considered the source of evil for the longest time (hence phrases like “lord, lead me not into temptation”, “God tempts Abraham,” God taking responsibility for all who are born blind or tongueless, God taking responsibility for natural disasters which killed innocents…)

    God being a loving deity, as opposed to the one (out of many) god with the most smiting power, is also largely a New Testament concept. :p

  • Tricksterson

    Satan first appears as a singular entity in Job but he’s working for or at least with God.  It’s not until the Christian Testament or maybe even aftwerwards that Satn, the Serpent and Lucifer all get combined with each other.

  • AnonymousSam

    *Facepalm* I had a brain fart. I was thinking Job was in the New Testament.

  • http://mordicai.livejournal.com Mordicai


  • http://mordicai.livejournal.com Mordicai

    “God did a miracle” is a joke on the trope of “a wizard did it,” surly?

  • aunursa

    My Christian friends: On Saturday night, February 23rd, visit your local synagogue and be amazed at how Jews read the Book of Esther on Purim.  Be sure to come dressed in a costume.  I wonder if you would ever see anything like it in a church service.

  • http://mordicai.livejournal.com Mordicai

     Sure, there are passion plays, right?

  • aunursa

    I dunno.  Do Passion Plays involve masquerade?  Are Christians expected to get so intoxicated that they cannot tell the difference between Jesus of Nazareth and Jesus Barrabas?

  • EllieMurasaki

    Ever heard the joke where the punchline is Baptists don’t recognize each other in the liquor store? Christians are most certainly not commanded to get intoxicated for any reason ever, and some flavors of Christianity don’t permit it either.

    I think the nearest we’ve got, and I’m pretty sure not all churches do it, is the thing where the Confirmation and First Communion classes, with volunteers from other Sunday school classes if there’s not enough warm bodies, tell and reenact the Christmas story as seen in Luke, usually with a baby doll for Jesus but sometimes a parishioner is willing to lend an infant. (My sister conned her way into being Mary the year after her Confirmation in order to get to hold the baby.) I can’t remember all the songs, but there’s definitely Silent Night and O Little Town of Bethlehem and The Friendly Beasts and Away in a Manger and We Three Kings though not in that order and while they do all the many verses of The Friendly Beasts they never ever do all the verses of We Three Kings which leaves the uninformed listener with the impression that the only Magi gift was gold. That has always bugged me and I have no idea why it still, ten years after I figured out I wasn’t Christian, drives me utterly up the wall.

  • Victor

    (((That has always bugged me and I have no idea why it still, ten years after I figured out I wasn’t Christian, drives me utterly up the wall.)))

    You were one of the lucky ones Ellie cause believe “IT” or not, there are many who are still being hooked by these so called Christian teachers who honestly believe that Adam and Eve once existed.

    I should be apologizing to some of our five daughters which I don’t get to see as often as i use to and that’s probably cause my wife and I made sure that they all completed their Confirmation and First Communion classes and then they received The Sacraments.

    I still recall singing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVTjVnwQQ80 to our oldest daughter and every time I sang “IT”, she would cry but NOW and thanks to people as yourselves, our five daughters are probably NOW learning the truth about U>S men.

    I hear ya sinner vic! For a guy who hates woman, why would you have put UP with six of them for so long Victor?

    Go Figure! LOVE?


  • http://mordicai.livejournal.com Mordicai

    Alright, sold! Though the Christians do have wine, at least…huh.

  • Tricksterson

    Okay this sounds interesting.  Like a relgious version of a performance of Rocky Horror Picture Show (well for those of you who don’t consider RHPS to be a religious experience in and of itself).

    Please explain to this heathen exactly what Purim is about if you don’t mind?

  • aunursa

    This article explains it a lot better than I could.

  • Beleester

    The story’s pretty straightforwards – Haman hated Mordecai and tried to kill the Jews, Esther outwitted him, let’s party.

    The thing is there’s a lot of fun traditions that reference the story. We’re commanded to read the book of Esther – pretty normal for a holiday. We have a tradition of wearing costumes and masks because God was “hidden” in the Purim story – there is no mention of him in the book. And we have a tradition of making noise when Haman’s name is read because he was an Amalekite and we’re commanded to blot out his name. And there’s a general commandment of feasting on Purim, which the Rabbis expanded into getting drunk until you can’t tell the difference between “Blessed is Mordecai” and “Cursed is Haman” (not really sure where that one came from). Like most religious things, it makes sense in context.

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    There’s also the wonderfully descriptive phrase, “to hang higher than Haman”.

  • VMink

    CN: Nursing Home

    The one and only time I remember there being any sort of joy in the (Sephardic) skilled nursing center (really, a hospice, that had his horrible atmosphere of death suffusing it) I used to work at, was during Purim.  For one day it was easy to forget that this was a place where people went to die.  It was wonderful, and wondrous.

  • Morilore

    a fun portrait of life after the big scientific/Calvinist break-through of a paternity test for the elect.

    The word “fun” is not my first choice of adjective, but that’s a good story.

  • http://willbikeforchange.wordpress.com/ Storiteller

    equip Christian men, including church leaders, to recognize, value, protect and train the women in their lives.

    I support the rest of it, but the “protect” in there amongst all of the others makes me wince.  I suspect that’s the one that informs the rest, to result in ministries that “protect” women from their own spiritual gifts like leadership or preaching.

    Christian friends: On Saturday night, February 23rd, visit your local
    synagogue and be amazed at how Jews read the Book of Esther on Purim. 
    Be sure to come dressed in a costume.  I wonder if you would ever see
    anything like it in a church service.

    I would love to go to a Purim service.  In terms of “anything like it,” my church actually does a lot with art/dance.  Is it considered wrong for a Christian church to put on a Purim service?  It seems like a story worth raising awareness of and potentially something my church could do something with, especially because we consider ourselves multi-demoninational.

  • Jessica_R

    Yeah, I might actually trust that project if it was called “The Esther Project” but it’s not so I think it’s going to be more of the same, not as hateful as Douchebag Driscoll but still “we know whats’s best for you.: 

  • LL

    I’m worried, because I’m beginning to kind of enjoy Victor’s poetry. It’s supposed to be poetry of some kind, right? Or some stream of consciousness (or semiconsciousness) bit? Maybe inspired by a pharmaceutical? 

  • Amaryllis

    It’s supposed to be poetry of some kind, right? Or some stream of consciousness (or semiconsciousness) bit?

    poetry is evanescence

    poetry is life sentence, release
    on words, liberté sur parole

    poetry is a blind guide to an ancient
    enigma, to an inaccessible

    poetry is an argument
    dynamic and jarring

    poetry is to forget

    poetry is to separate self from

    poetry is what’s completely
    left out
    poetry is memory of what is not
    and what must not be; that is
    the culminating, liminal Self
    the Self as an incomplete cosmos
    never to be completed

    poetry is tying—untying

    poetry is the ritual scene of
    infinite uncertainty, of the
    inaccessible Infermity

    poetry is impermanence crossed with

    it’s impertinence

    poetry is counter and encounter (spontaneous
    and predestined) between neurosis and unconscious,
    between archetype and Self

    a monotonous and perpetuated ring between
    impulse and obsession


    poetry is a fight against the night

    poetry is night against the night

    poetry is a rub against the voice

    poetry is friction against the Dragon’s skin

    poetry is this
    it’s this and that
    and so be it

    – Emilio Villa, from Poetry Is (tr. Domenic Siracusa)

  • http://dpolicar.livejournal.com/ Dave

    That pretty much makes the serpent God’s hand-puppet or ventriloquist’s dummy. And that changes the story, literally.

    I’m not certain it changes the story that much.

    That is… if I take the story as fictional/mythic, the flow of events is something like:
    1. God creates a temptable human named Eve.
    2. God creates a Tree whose fruit is tempting.
    3. Eve is, predictably, tempted to eat of the fruit of the Tree.
    4. Eve succumbs to temptation.

    If I take the story more literally, then it is something like:
    1. God creates a temptable human named Eve.
    2. God creates a Tree.
    3. God creates a talking Snake.
    4. The Snake (or perhaps God acting through the Snake) tempts Eve to eat of the fruit of the Tree.
    5. Eve succumbs to temptation.

    To treat these as significantly different seems to require that God taking action to tempt Eve is one thing, but God creating the nature of humans and trees such that the former will naturally be tempted to eat from the latter is a different thing.

    Put another way, the idea seems to be that the talking Snake is an attractive nuisance, but the Tree itself is not.

    In those terms, I think I’ve always seen the Tree as an attractive nuisance, and God as therefore complicit in Eve’s temptation, Snake or no Snake.


  • VMink

    There was an amazing play once — I studied it in college but I can’t remember the playwright now — called “Cain,” in which God says, “Cain, I was the serpent in the garden.”  It was a powerful piece, and I wish I could find it again.  

  • Carstonio

    the creationist notion that this a literal, historical account of a
    snake literally, historically talking because “God did a miracle.”

    Huh? The Bible Story series claims that the serpent was Satan but originally known as Lucifer the light-bearer, guardian of the angels. As the story went, Lucifer was dethroned for rebelling against God and made it his goal to wreck God’s plan for a good world. I have never found that story anywhere in the actual Bible.

  • EllieMurasaki

    Dante and Milton had a powerful impact on the Christian imagination.

    One of the reasons I suspect I’m writing a Supernatural AU fic instead of an original fantasy novel for NaNoWriMo is the original fantasy novel deals a lot with Lucifer and I have never actually read Paradise Lost or the Commedia all the way through.

  • Carstonio

     I’ve only read bits and pieces of those. Despite their artistic merit, aren’t they the religious equivalent of fan fiction? I can understand their impact on the Christian imagination, but they shouldn’t be taught as canonical.

  • EllieMurasaki

    Oh, they are most decidedly fanfiction, at least by some definitions (a lot of people are under the impression that if a work is public domain, which the Bible always has been, or otherwise something that one has permission to play with, then the resulting work isn’t fanfiction), but something that happens with distressing frequency in fandom is confusing something that happens in a fanwork with something that happened in canon. I suspect that’s exactly what happened here. Possibly with bonus Christian priests and theologians declaring that Dante and Milton got it right.

  • vsm

    Jesus says he “saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven” in Luke 10:18, which along with the other references to Satan in the New Testament seems like a decent enough basis for that interpretation. I’d imagine one of the reasons Milton wrote Paradise Lost was to turn the scattered references into a badass story, but he did not by any means invent it.

  • http://lliira.dreamwidth.org/ Lliira

    That pretty much makes the serpent God’s hand-puppet or ventriloquist’s dummy.

    And that changes the story, literally.

    It does?

    God creates one tree with metaphorical big signs saying DO NOT EAT THE FRUIT ON THIS ONLY THIS NO I WON’T TELL YOU WHY JUST DON’T. He creates people and intends them to always remain without knowledge — supposedly. Then he lets a “snake” go tell Eve, “God’s keeping these huge secrets from you, eat the fruit and you’ll see.” And she has very good reason to know that this is true. And she eats the fruit, and finds that it is true, and shares the truth with her partner, the only other human being in the world.

    And then God punishes his children for learning the truth. He particularly punishes the woman, for daring to rebel against his authoritarian dictatorship, because he can’t stand the fact that she valued truth above blind obedience. And the way in which he punishes the woman is to punish all women everywhere for all time. But he could have stopped it at any time, because he’s God, so he must have wanted all this to happen.

    I’m pretty sure God’s a gigantic asshole in this story no matter how you look at it. The biggest asshole of all time, considering he made half the human race slaves to the other half for millennia upon millennia. Far more than the talking snake, this is what made me know, always, that this story was just a story. Even when I was a small child (and I believed in God fervently then), I knew it existed mainly to justify the oppression of women. 

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    That “section off the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in such an obvious way” part really reminds me of how you can get someone to want to do something just by telling them not to do it.

    It’s an astonishing facet of human nature, really.

  • Victor

    (((It’s an astonishing facet of human nature, really.)))

    Hey Victor! Here’s the real truth about Adam & Eve and you know that “I’M WHO I AM” and “I” wouldn’t never tell ya a lie cause “I’M” your god so listen UP little Retardo and ya might learn something. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gQhkzYVlLl8 new NOW!

    Give “IT” UP sinner vic “I’M’ not that stupid cause Adam was definately not black butt nice try though! :)


  • Heqit

    Heh – thanks to that picture, from now on when I think about Esther I may think about Kajol, too.  And even though Kuch Kuch Hota Hai (the film this picture is taken from, for the non-Bollywood fans here; great romantic movie, especially if you like love triangles that don’t villainize the hypoteneuse, as it were) is not exactly analogous to the story of Esther, I may not be able to resist casting Salman Khan as Ahasuerus.

  • Trixie_Belden

    Thanks for the information – I was wondering who it was and where the picture came from.  I lurves me some Bollywood movies, although I hardly ever see them, because I have a cranky preference to see movies on a big screen rather than rent a video.

  • Lunch Meat

    Paradise Lost, for a story that is mainly concerned with exonerating God, actually makes him out to be even worse. He makes a big point out of the fact that Adam and Eve were smart enough/good enough not to fall, but that he knows they’re going to fall anyway, but this is totally not his fault because they could have withstood temptation if they really wanted to. My thought is, that part may be true, but I still don’t have much respect for an entity that’s going to spend so much energy in heaven bragging about how he’s managed to set it up so that no one can blame him, but who–knowing all the pain and suffering that’s going to result from this–can’t be bothered to expend the effort either to keep Satan in hell* or to keep him out of earth. Not only that, but knowing that Satan has escaped, he sends an angel to tell Adam (but not Eve) that someone might be wandering around the garden lying to them. God and his angels never speak directly to Eve except to curse her. She’s treated like Adam’s pet.

    *Hell is guarded by Satan’s kids. Who thought this would be effective?

  • christopher_young

    Paradise Lost, for a story that is mainly concerned with exonerating God, actually makes him out to be even worse.

    William Blake thought that Milton “was of the devil’s party without knowing it”. He thought that Satan emerged as the hero of Paradise Lost because Milton was too good a poet not to let him. Which makes it fanfic with a vengeance as far as I can see.

    I suspect Milton would have been shocked at the idea and denied it hotly. But he was an incorrigible rebel and a serious heretic, so who knows.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2CUJHSQSQYTYT4DPZSKTVESYNQ B

    Trivial comment, but I was amused that at the time I went to check out the “Jesus Juke” post, it had exactly 666 comments.

  • Victor

    *Hell is guarded by Satan’s kids. Who thought this would be effective?

    Look Victor! Don’t believe “IT” cause there’s no truth to “IT” what so ever cause there ain’t no Hell.

    We still believe in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za1-e9zuGV0 so trust U>S (usual sinners) when we Children of GOD (Good Old Dad) that we luv  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgaDhMg62jI and besides we can’t stand that “Bithch” Good Evening if ya know what “I’M” talking about so relax and we’ll take good care of ya! Want a piece NOW Victor?

    JUST GREAT! NOW sinner vic is also poking fun at me. WHAT NEXT?


  • Parisienne

    I have a lot of time for Lee Grady. He wrote a book called “Ten Lies the Church Tells About Women” (don’t know whether it’s still in print, I got it quite a few years back). Which is *very* forthright on Christianity’s mistreatment of women. He was asked to change the title to something less provocative and refused – because he says he wants to present the ugliness for exactly what it is, not misconceptions etc. but LIES. In it he explicitly says that Christian men need to “repent” of what he calls “ugly sins” towards women. I don’t remember all of the ten lies but they include things like women were created inferior to men, women can’t be fulfilled without a husband and children, women must always be covered by the authority of a man, women should never teach men in Church. He is explicit about spousal abuse by professing Christian men, which may be what is behind the “protecting women” thing (i.e. Christian men have a responsibility to make sure women don’t get beaten up and especially not in the name of Christ).

    I think part of the reason he has gone with “Mordecai project” aimed at men is that is himself male and he thinks an important role for him lies in educating men about the mistreatment of women in Christian circles.

  • Rowen

    Some of what we think of when we think of “Satan and the Fall” comes from the book of Enoch, even though most of that book covers a different fall of angels.

    Also, every time Victor says IT, all I can think of is the end antagonist in A Wrinkle in Time and the rest of his text is blurred out by the image of a disembodied brain on a pedestal.

  • http://apocalypsereview.wordpress.com/ Invisible Neutrino

    I just ignore everything Victor says,

  • Victor

     (((I just ignore everything Victor says,)))

    There’s nothing wrong with doing that Invisible and to be honest there’s time when I even do the same to myself although sinner vic might say that, “IT” is only because you just can’t keep UP to U>S (usual sinners). :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq9oR9x171w

    Rowen that statement of yours about desembodied brain on a pedestal was very deep and believe “IT” or not “I” think that sinner vic’s butt flesh might undestands some of “IT” although his imaginary Peter, I mean peter, no here I mean penis, might find “IT” harder to understand because Victor tends not to think with “IT” as much in his old age. Go Figure! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKCPaLWlTjs

    Long story short, listen guys and gals, most of U>S humans even if we don’t agree, I believe that we are still also searching for GOD (Good Old Dad) but “I” do “IT” with the help of sinner vic and trust me when I say that my weakest cells keep him closer to me than I do my on friendly cells,

    Friends, I probably won’t be back here and if I do come back, I may not answer and that’s not because I’m frightened that some of U>S (usual sinners) might be hi jacking Fred’s post. The main reason would probably be that “I’M” getting tired of being my own worst enemy.

    In closing I will ask you all who truly care to keep praying for me, myself and i and trust me when “I” say that a true good prayer to GOD is much better than praying with Fred in his so called “Chap hell”.

    (((You’re not alone in that.))) Welcome to the party Cathy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxfljegYXk4

    THAT WILL BE ENOUGH OUT OF YA sinner vic! You here? :)

    Hey Victor! Don’t take “IT” out on U>S just cause your wife wishes that she could be a computer!




  • Amaryllis

     Friends, I probably won’t be back here

    Victor, if you don’t come back occasionally,  I’ll miss you.

    I will ask you all who truly care to keep praying for me, myself and i
    And likewise.


  • Cathy W

    You’re not alone in that.

  • Tricksterson

    I go to the Stephen King book of that title.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jrandyowens Randy Owens

    Being the big computer geek that I am, for me, IT makes me think “Information Technology” every time.

  • Victor

    Thank You Amaryllis! That is kind of you! I think?


  • Tricksterson

    I think I’d kind of miss you too.  And worry about you.