Whatever Happened To The Gospel Of Jesus Christ?

Whatever Happened To The Gospel Of Jesus Christ? November 6, 2017

If your church does not regularly share the gospel, maybe they don’t know it as well as they think they do.

Half a Gospel

General William Booth, the founder of the Salvation Army, was about the most fervent and passionate man I’ve read about in witnessing to the lost. He once said, “Most Christian organizations would like to send their workers to Bible College for five years. I would like to send our workers to hell for five minutes. That would prepare them for a lifetime of compassionate ministry.” Shortly before his death in 1912 he said, “The chief danger that confronts the coming century will be religion without the Holy Ghost, Christianity without Christ, forgiveness without repentance, salvation without regeneration, politics without God, heaven without hell.” Sadly, many pastors have watered down the gospel message making it a Pablum of inoffensive messages that have no meat, but just basic elementary platitudes like “God loves you,” “Come as you are,” and “Just give your heart to Jesus,” even though this is not how the gospel is presented. Yes, God loves us, but He loves those who have trusted in Christ, and is opposed to all who reject the Son. By taking out the need for repentance, confession of sin, the need to strive for holy living, and making the priority of our lives to glorify God, we’ve rendered the gospel into a Dr. “feel good” talk program that only addresses the outside and not the inside. Why did Jesus speak so much about hell? It was because He cared enough to warn people about the wrath to come. One of the most unloving things you can do is to be silent about Christ, and giving only half the gospel is like saying a half-truth, and a half-truth is a whole lie, so half a gospel is no gospel at all. Jesus reveals what the gospel is. It was just “after John was arrested, Jesus came into Galilee, proclaiming the gospel of God, and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel” (Mark 1:14-15). The gospel is not just “believe” because even the demons believe, (James 2:19) but they’ve never repented. I can believe in chairs but if I never sit in them, have I really trusted in them? The point is, I must act on that belief.

Saved From What?

I had a friend who years ago picked up a hitchhiker and asked where the young man was going. He said he was on his way to his aunts to stay until he enrolled in a local college for the summer, so my friend asked him, “Have you been saved?” to which the young man asked, “Saved from what?” That’s a good question. If you were to ask a believer what they thought that they had been saved from, you might hear a variety of answers: We are saved from our sins, we are saved from hell, but what are we really saved from? We are saved from God! And more precisely, we are sparred the wrath of God. God has not appointed us to wrath anymore (1st Thess 5:9), and that’s good because, “It’s a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God” (Heb 10:31). The Greek word for “fearful” is “inspiring fear, terrible, formidable,” and “affected with fear,” and we’re left with this rhetorical question: Who can deliver out the hands of an angry God!? Jesus alone can deliver us from God’s wrath, and He has done so for everyone who’s trusted in Him. Jesus tried telling the self-righteous that it was God Who they should fear and not man, and said “do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell” (Matt 1:28). If you are not saved, imagine being called before God, and having rejected Jesus Christ, and in some cases, having insulted His character and blasphemed His name, you now stand alone before Him. You have no advocate and no one to represent you. Without your trusting in Christ, the wrath of God that was placed on Jesus will then be placed on you. Can anyone imagine a worse scenario? But this happens every day. Multiple thousands of people die and are judged (Heb 9:27). There is no escaping the wrath of God except through Christ.


The Perishing

Today, over 150,000 people will die, and that is a very conservative figure since more may be added from terrorist acts or natural disasters, so using the conservative number, that’s over six thousand an hour and approximately one hundred every minute. About 1/3rd of the world is Christian (about 2.4 billion), and these people represent not only the largest group on earth, but also represent the world’s largest religion, although that number might be too high because not everyone who professes to be a believer truly is a believer (Matt 7:21-23), but what this means is that today, at minimum, over 100,000 people will die outside of faith in Christ, meaning their souls will be condemned since after death, comes the judgment (Heb 9:27), so my question is; “How can we sit idly by while so many are slipping into this hopeless eternity?” Where are the weeping Jeremiahs today? Surely it grieves the heart of God to see thousands of people lost every day, and we know that God “takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked” (Ezk 18:32).

Spurgeon’s Passion

Charles Spurgeon is another man I admire because he had a huge heart for the lost. He said, “If you are a true follower of the Lord Jesus Christ, you cannot be at ease while souls are being lost! I fear that it would not matter in the least to some professors whether a whole nation was lost or saved! They would be just as comfortable, whatever happened. But they who have the spirit of Christ and are in sympathy with Him, have hearts of companion, so that the loss of any one sinner fills them with dismay—and the penitence of any one sinner makes their heart rejoice with exceeding joy” (1903, Sermon #2821)! Charles Spurgeon also said, “Have you no wish for others to be saved? Then you are not saved yourself. Be sure of that.” I know that’s very strong, and you may not agree with him, but we must preach about the wrath of God and the reality of hell because Jesus did. The grace of God is not relevant until it’s placed against the wrath of God. This was the heart of Frances Crosby who wrote, “Rescue the Perishing,” singing, “Rescue the perishing, care for the dying, Snatch them in pity from sin and the grave; Weep o’er the erring one, lift up the fallen, Tell them of Jesus, the mighty to save.”

Law to the Proud

If I were a doctor and came out and handed you a prescription, you’d probably be surprised and think, you don’t need this because you feel just fine, but if I came to you and showed you some x-rays and blood tests which indicated you have a fatal disease, you’d suddenly become very interested in the medicine. That’s what the law does in moving us to see the value of grace….it is law to the proud and grace to the humble. The law shows us what sin is (Rom 7:7, and “Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God” (Rom 3:19). In other words, it takes our excuses away, like saying, “I’m a good person,” when in fact, we’re all guilty before God. If someone says they’re a good person, I would say maybe they do some good things, but no…we’re not good (Rom 3:10-12). Only God is good. The law is designed to show us the impossibility of keeping it. That doesn’t mean we don’t strive to live by it, but we know we can never keep it perfectly. Only Jesus did, and we need His righteousness attributed to us (2nd Cor 5:21).


How well do you know the gospel? What if you had to share it with a dying person? What if, right after calling 911, you saw a man who has been in a terrible car accident and may have only about three minutes to live, if that? Could anyone explain how they might be saved in less than three minutes? If they can’t, then they don’t know the gospel well enough to explain it. It would be beneficial to know certain Scriptures like Romans 10:9-13, Acts 4:12, and Acts 16:30-31, Romans 3:10-12, 23, 6:23, 1st Corinthians 15:3-4, 2nd Corinthians 5:21, and a few others. The last time I checked, over 76% of people who don’t attend church had never been asked, meaning the fields are ripe but the laborers are few. Are you willing to be used by God to seek the lost? Do you know the gospel well enough to share it?

Article by Jack Wellman

Jack Wellman is Pastor of the Mulvane Brethren Church in Mulvane Kansas. Jack is a writer at Christian Quotes and also the Senior Writer at What Christians Want To Know whose mission is to equip, encourage, and energize Christians and to address questions about the believer’s daily walk with God and the Bible. You can follow Jack on Google Plus or check out his book Teaching Children the Gospel available on Amazon.

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  • Nimblewill

    Here’s the issue. The word Jesus used that has been translated “hell” is Gehenna. The valley of the Sons of Hinnom. The garbage dump outside Jerusalem. Have you ever preached a message on Gehenna? Have you studied the Old Testament scripture dealing with this valley? Have you ever told your people that Jesus was speaking to religious people and not people they considered sinners? My guess is that like most preachers, you have not. If you know it yourself then you are hiding it from people. If you don’t then you need to look into it. I’m not saying that there is no final judgment. Its obvious there is. But Jesus is the only person in scripture to use the word outside one verse in James. With the internet people are finding this our and preachers are either unaware of it or are being dishonest about it. The other words translated hell are Hades in the New Testament and Sheol in the old, both are the grave. Jesus uses Hades in the Parable of Lazarus and the rich man. Paul only uses the word Hades one time and never uses the word Gehenna. In the one time that Paul uses Hades and it is translated grave. “O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?: None of the other books of the New Testament use the word Hell at all. Peter uses the word Tartarus one time and its translate hell.

    • pud

      It’s obvious that there’s a final judgement? LOL Demonstrate how you KNOW this nonsense. Waiting….and waiting….and waiting….until Gehenna freezes over I suspect

      • Nimblewill

        According to scripture there is a final judgment! If you don’t believe Jesus was a real person any proof of a final judgment would be unbelievable to you. Death will be your final judgment. You do believe in death don’t you?

        • pud

          I don’t care what an ancient superstitious book written by no name ignorant religious lunatics has to say about anything. There’s many such worthless books…why don’t you “believe” them?

          I don’t “believe” in anything…It’s obvious that all living things cease living at some point…so what?

          • Nimblewill

            Nothing. Just stating that if you didn’t believe in anything that death would be your final judgment.If your right I’m no worse off than you. We’re both just dead. If I’m right then what will it be like for you.

          • pud

            It’s not a “judgement” at all…it’s just the end of life.

          • Nimblewill

            And you will be judged then on how you lived. Granted you are being judged now on how you are living, but the truth will be told after you are gone. Final Judgment.

          • pud

            Is that so? Demonstrate how you KNOW this to be true and not just some stupid superstitious belief….waiting..

          • Sam Andrew

            Cause the Quran tells them so…wait wrong book…the Vedas…no…Book of the Dead maybe?

          • pud

            This is the actual truth…They don’t “believe” in any “god” they “believe” in a book! They know absolutely nothing factual, they accept everything that an ancient book says. They can’t demonstrate a thing and don’t care to….the book! the book! The book says! How do they know it’s true? The books says so!! LOL

          • Nimblewill

            Have you ever asked Jesus to prove Himself to you? What could it hurt? Forget about the book and see what He can do.

          • pud

            That wins the stupid post of the day award. LOL Anytime your invisible jesus wants to have dinner with me he’s welcome

          • Sam Andrew

            I spent too much time asking for Jesus to reveal himself, and people I knew from then continue to. I saw no Jesus, no God, just people trying to make sense of the world and comfort their anxieties about pains, suffering and death….I thought it was because id din’t pray correctly or believe enough…but then i realized it wasn’t me…i was dialing a dead phone number…there was no one on the other side to prove anything.

          • NathansFather

            Redial Sam.
            Pray today MAY just be your day!
            God works at his own speed.
            He answers every prayer, YES, NO, and LATER.
            The beginning of LOVE is patience.
            Later is difficult for us humans but endeavor to persevere we must.
            Find someone you admire who is a Christian and sit down with them.
            Read the Scriptures Jack posted on this article.
            I will pray for your clarity.

          • Sam Andrew

            And then they can’t even agree on how to interpret that same book….it all comes down to every interpretation for itself, and how many people can I get to sign on to mine and pay a tithe….

          • NathansFather

            Must you be reported also?

          • pud

            BURN HIM!! Everyone not as psychotic as you must be BURNED!!

          • Bruce Robertson

            Now that’s not very Christian is it…. oh hang on, I just checked the bible… BURN HIM!! God will be so pleased, he loves a good burning to cure the mid week boredom.

          • Ah yes! Burn all those heretics! Burn them at the stake! Such love! Burn them slowly! God loves you but you are a heretic, so am I. So these medieval butchers, if they had the power they once had, would burn all atheists at the stake.

          • Sam Andrew

            It’s an undeniable fact that many cultures and religions believe in a post death Judgement and wrote it into their sacred texts, many long before Christianity or even Judaism (which to be fair Judaism is ambivalent at best about any post death judgement). I think his is an important anthropological fact to consider when discussing such matters, to consider maybe belief in an afterlife is a function of human anxiety and desires rather than divine revelation, which better explains its cross cultural appeal. And having said that what is wrong with some levity and poking fun at human cultures and beliefs, if we can’t laugh at ourselves we are truly lost.

          • NathansFather

            You are more than welcome to engage in discourse.
            Civil discourse.
            Enlightening positive discourse.
            PUD and his? posts are not funny and never have been.
            You certainly do not want to devolve I am sure to the most vile that kind of humanity
            [(he/she) never did prove he/she was come to think of it was human]
            discourse without respect can as the other author on Patheos David rightly said beyond the pale.

          • Sam Andrew

            Pud is a bit over the top, and in a way a mirror image of religious fanaticism to the extent pud is an atheist fanatic…but among his diatribes he does make some good points…occasionally.

          • NathansFather

            None of his points are good no not one.
            For people are not good in and of themselves.
            It takes GOD. Only through Him, giving all glory to Him at all times may good works be done.
            If you are an atheist even your best intentions are but dross.

          • I’ll report you to Santa Claus. Hasn’t he revealed himself to you yet? Haven’t you experienced his wonderful presence yet? Looks like there will be no goodies for you for Christmas. All your best intentions are but dross. If you repent, he may make you one of his reindeers.

          • Bruce Robertson

            For sure this all stems from a failure to deal with the idea of death, but then the delusion takes over and really gets legs! LOL

          • Bruce Robertson

            If you report one more person on here, I’m going to report you to Allah.

        • NathansFather

          PUD believes in the father of all hate.

          • Nimblewill

            Chances are pud has never known a loving father at all.

          • NathansFather

            I agree. He/She is twisted. It will take an act of the Transcendent GOD I AM to save this sort of possession. Hate is eating this individual to death. Chances are the shooter in Texas was once abused himself. It carries on through the generations if not stopped. Pray for PUD and others ready to explode.

          • pud

            The devil! LOL…grow up, seek help.

          • pud

            I don’t “believe” anything psycho….Demonstrate your invisible “demons” fruit cake

    • Tiny J

      So, what is your actual point again? Just “this needs to be preached”? Because I thought it was…

      • Monty

        There is not a lot of the old “fire and brimstone” type preaching these days at least in the West. I admit that I got saved exactly because I did not want to face God as my judge. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom! It’s only the beginning. God wants us to know His great mercy and grace and love also. There is a great problem in the modern church. It’s as if preachers don’t want to offend anyone. That is impossible if you preach the truth. It will definitely offend many! Jesus offended enough people that they decided to kill Him. But that was all according to God’s plan, as we know. People MUST be convinced that they are sinners. By definition, God only saves sinners. A person is not going to repent if they don’t see that they are wrong. Death is the enemy. Jesus did not come to make “bad” people “good.” He came to make dead people alive, here and now, not just after we leave this earthly realm.

        • NathansFather

          >>> The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom! <<< Amen Monty! Love your posts. G'day to ye!

          Matthew 10:28 English Standard Version (ESV)
          28 And (A)do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him (B)who can destroy both soul and body in hell.[a]

          a.Matthew 10:28 Greek Gehenna

          Cross references:
          A.Matthew 10:28 : Isa. 8:12, 13; 51:12, 13; Jer. 1:8; 1 Pet. 3:14
          B.Matthew 10:28 : James 4:12

          WND News Site
          Only 17% of 'Christians' have biblical worldview
          Many buy postmodernism, Marxism, Islam, Barna study finds
          Published: 05/12/2017 at 9:58 AM

          WOW! Well said my brother Monty! The followers of The Way, Truth, and Life are on a journey one step at a time in our sanctification walk.
          The only way we come to GOD the Father is if we heed. It takes confrontation to be lead to full repentance. I know, it took that for me.
          I thought I was a Christian and was not.

          Unfortunately we have unschooled "christians" who put forth the apostate we don't need to repent of our sins to be saved just for starters. Saint Paul says if anyone preaches another gospel let them be damned. The apostates are headed that way.

          Anyone that points out truth to these apostates gets a bevy of verses pulled from thin air.
          I referred one person to this article. Let's see if she bothers to read this.
          Enough of the postmodernism! We are allowing false teaching to not save souls but help condemn them.

          This is NOT love to lie and soft pedal the need to * repent * turn, and follow Jesus Iesous Y'hua!
          Pray for the unbelievers like never before.

          The stakes are great not only for their souls but the innocents they harm.
          We are seeing much violence in the world against Christians.
          It has reached our shores now many times.
          The people in Texas, Tennessee and elsewhere who lost their lives there in church are martyrs.

        • Nimblewill

          There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

          The fear of the Lord may be the beginning of wisdom but it is not the end of wisdom.

          • Tiny J

            I explain it like this:
            “Fear is the beginning of love” is like saying “dirt is the beginning of eating”.
            You know, because you need dirt to grow food.

          • NathansFather

            What flavor of seminary are you going to go to?

          • Tiny J

            I’m not sure I’m going to a regular seminary. I graduated Hillsong’s Bible College, though.
            I was offered a pastor job at an independent/nondenom church because my best friend goes there. It’s going to be an on-the-job training kind of thing. In the purest sense, I’ll be an “under pastor” or “pastor lite”, but the congregation isn’t too focused on formal rank and titles. Plus, the general public couldn’t care less what my job title is.

          • Bruce Robertson

            Quite right, the job title isn’t important. The important thing is that you do your bit to support and spread delusional cult god stories. Become an unwitting cog in the machine that churns away to control and manipulate the many by the few. I’m sure you’ll give it everything you have!

          • pud

            He majored in lying to children about things he can’t possibly know

          • Bruce Robertson

            Wonderful stuff. Must be very rewarding to see their indoctrination progressing as they are filled with fear and nonsense.

          • pud

            The fear comes after they are filled with guilt, shame and loathing of being human. They are all just little filthy rags worthy of death unless they join the cult

          • NathansFather

            UH OH > Hillsong
            Look into it further.
            It may explain some of your mmm let’s say liberal thoughts.
            I do not judge you mind you.
            But do think more Scripturally rather than creatively shall we say a straighter path.
            The BEST Pastors teach cover to cover (not necessarily linear but some for instance I like Chronological).
            People are crying out for the clarity that only Chapter-by-Chapter, Verse-by-Verse with excellent Pastor and other source commentary.
            I was in a non-denominational, loud music, “comtemporary” church but I found the Pastor simply did not know his stuff.
            For instance the church did trick or trunk and the Pastor did not mind at all inviting satan within the church building and grounds.
            I quoted passage after passage on sorcery and got no where.
            He gave me the old razzle dazzle if it’s not in the Bible we should accept the other’s opinion.
            Well sheesh he refused to read the verses and articles I presented.
            What really cut it for me was seeing the little children in Mother’s Day out marching in procession to the Pastor’s office with a sweet little child dressed in an devil’s suit.
            I gave up.
            Found me a denominational church that was NOT a World Council of Churches UN Denomination.
            I consider myself a non-denominational person as a member of a denomination if that makes sense. 😉
            Now I am back and can trust the message I am taught each week and in Bible Study on Wednesdays.
            Make sure you stick with doctrine. Not the menu cherry picking here and there.
            Blessings to you TinyJ! I have confidence you will grow and find your way.

          • pud

            LOL! buybull college! LOL!!!

          • Hillsong Bible College!

            How’s your speaking in tongues going? How many times have you been “slain in the Spirit”? How’s the rolling on the floor? How many demons have you cast out? How’s the Toronto blessing going?

            Have you visited a psychiatrist recently?

        • pud

          Your loving lord intimidated you like the celestial dictator he is…nice…good motivation…great reason to worship his insecure ass. Idiot…gullible idiot

        • pud

          There is absolutely no historical evidence for a single ridiculous thing you “believe” NONE.

        • Tiny J

          Another reason there’s not a lot of “fire and brimstone” type preaching is because churches generally don’t have people in attendance who are unsaved. If a nonbeliever does come to church, they already know that they need something more out of life. So it doesn’t mean a lot to preach about Hell to people who don’t have to worry about going there.

          • NathansFather

            Amen Monty. – Part 1
            Been there and done that myself. I was an on and off “christian” oh I thought I was a good person. I believed in Jesus and I was going to Heaven. NOT SO FAST… But even satan, the fallen angels believe there is a Jesus.
            Soooo I was broken in my early 50s when I was in a pit so low.
            I had no one to turn to so I turned full in the face of My Lord when He literally knocked on my doorfacing.
            IT HAPPENED no I am not imagining it either.
            I went prone on the concrete begging to be freed.
            I could not process this all day but at 3 AM I ran across the street to my neighbor where I previously was doing Bible Studies with her and others.
            PRAISE GOD she opened the door and let me in!
            How many people would do that?
            She believed me. She went beside me and we stayed up together until day light.
            After repentance and much prayer and plans to atone for my sins against people a weight was lifted from me.
            An unexplainable feeling of comfort and peace I no longer walked alone.
            This time I received the Holy spirit.
            I have never looked back.

          • pud

            “I was once all messed up on drugs…now I’m all messed up on the lord”


          • NathansFather

            Hey Monty I tried to respond to your response to Tiny and got “you cannot respond to a post that is not active.”
            Huh? Go figure. I will answer you anyway. 🙂

    • NathansFather

      Part 2 – Hell (for those Post Moderns, nominal “christians” Note: Jesus is not warm and fuzzy when speaking on this subject)
      Nimble apparently 2 Apostles used Hell. And Jesus used Hell (English Translation) 10 times.

      Matthew 23:33
      You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?

      Mark 9:43
      And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire.

      Mark 9:45
      And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell.

      Mark 9:47
      And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell,

      Luke 12:5
      But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him! <<< YEP Jesus is telling you to fear Him!

      James 3:6 – Half Brother of Jesus, Head of the Church in Jerusalem
      And the tongue is a fire, a world of unrighteousness. The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell.

      2 Peter 2:4
      For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment;

    • NathansFather

      Rats Part 1 went too long. Resubmission

      Hi Nimble! – Part 1
      I have a small problem with the word Hell personally too
      But it is what English translates from Hades and Sheol.
      When reciting the Apostle’s Creed I have begun using Hades.
      Now remember Jesus was speaking in Hebrew (or more exact proto-Hebrew/Aramaic.)
      However see the search I just did on Bible Gateway in the ESV Version.
      Since there are 17 Verses I must split them in parts or my submission will go too long and be rejected. These panes are a pain sometimes 🙂

      17 Bible results for “hell.” Showing results 1-17. https://www.biblegateway.com

      Psalm 139:8 [Full Chapter] – OT
      If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!

      Matthew 5:22 – NT Red Letter and Apostles
      But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire
      Matthew 5:29
      If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.
      Matthew 5:30
      And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.
      Matthew 10:28
      And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
      Matthew 16:18
      And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
      Matthew 18:9
      And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.
      Matthew 23:15
      Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.

    • NathansFather

      Now as the Hades / Hell goes.
      This is me… and don’t take it as Gospel.
      I don’t think there was an “official” Hell until Jesus sat on the Mercy Throne for believers and the Judgment Throne for non-believers when He assented into Heaven to judge the living from the dead.
      I go with the Parable of the Rich Man and Poor Beggar, Lazarus.
      I think… again just me… that Jesus after He died went to the Bosom of Abraham on the right side of the gulf.
      The land of the dead where the Old Testament and New Testament were “asleep.”
      The rich man was lodged in the left side with all the other non-believers.
      Jesus said to the criminal on the cross He would see him in Paradise (Bosom of Abraham).
      Now Jesus may or may not have gone to the left side to declare victory or not???
      This for sure is not stated.
      I believe that the Old Testament saints now to Saints arose from the grave bodily as it said when Jesus arose and visited the Marys and the Apostles.
      Many in Jerusalem in this one time event recognized those who had gone down to the grave.
      Those previously “asleep” (like Lazarus, brother of Mary and Martha).
      So now it is HELL. Apparently there are at least 2 levels.
      One the Lake of Fire ready for the final disposition of souls permanently.
      Agree or disagree this is as far I have been lead.
      As I grow in knowledge this may change.
      Do any of us really know???
      I don’t figure for sure until we get to Heaven when the remnant that The Alpha and Omega knows motions us right.
      See you there regardless Nimble 🙂

      • pud

        No hell until jesus sat on the throne? Was it free burrito night at the pub or what? Whoa! Holy shit!

      • pud

        And Bilbo Baggins threw the “precious” ring into the volcano ending the evil lord Valdamor plot to destroy middle earth!!! WHEW!

      • So you are Research Berean and Acts 17-11.

    • Iain Lovejoy

      Gehenna was never a rubbish dump. That is a medieval invention. Gehenna in Jewish mythology is where sinners go to be cleansed of / pay for their sins before entering into Paradise. The Wikipedia article is quite good.

      • Nimblewill

        Gehenna was a literal place. The valley of the sons of Hinnom. Where human sacrifices were made.

        …4″Because they have forsaken Me and have made this an alien place and have burned sacrifices in it to other gods, that neither they nor their forefathers nor the kings of Judah had ever known, and because they have filled this place with the blood of the innocent 5and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, a thing which I never commanded or spoke of, nor did it ever enter My mind; 6therefore, behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when this place will no longer be called Topheth or the valley of Ben-hinnom, but rather the valley of Slaughter.…

        It never entered His mind that they should burn their children in the fire. Yet we teach that He burns His and that is perfectly normal.

        Yes the Jews taught that a person might stay in Gehenna 12 months. Maybe longer if they were really bad. Why do we teach a Jewish myth as a Christian truth?

        • Iain Lovejoy

          Yes, it is a real place. It just was never a rubbish dump.
          It may come as something of a surprise to you that Jesus was, in fact, Jewish. I prefer not to rewrite the Bible. Jesus said “Gehenna” and therefore to Gehenna, the “Jewish myth” as you call it, he refers. Hell, on the other hand, originates in pagan myth, and is never mentioned in the Bible.

          • Nimblewill

            Actually you called it a Jewish Myth!

            “Gehenna in Jewish mythology is where sinners go to be cleansed……………………..”

            What did they Jews do with their rubbish? Just curious?

          • Iain Lovejoy

            Oops, yes it was me. Sorry.
            No idea what they did with their rubbish, but it wasn’t dumped in Gehenna. Maybe they threw it at the Romans?

  • pud

    There is no historical evidence for the existence of any “jesus’

    Your constant threats of the celestial dictators wrath fall on more and more deaf ears…rightly so. It is a perverted cult you belong to and a perverted twisted doctrine you peddle to the stupid, credulous, gullible and fearful.

  • pud

    Invisible non existent “jesus” left NOTHING! Not a trace, not a word, not a painting, not a single record. And your make believe deity who wants everyone to “believe” in him and worship him vanishes without a whiff of smoke. Never comes back, never provides evidence, never appears to everyone, never inspires another book…NOTHING!! Shows just how much he cares eh? Nope, gentle jesus meek and mild just kicks back and watches all the suffering….BS…there is no “jesus” Never was, isn’t and never will be. You are delusional

  • Monty

    Well said, Jack. Whatever you call the sinner’s final place, Hell or Hades, or just the grave, it is plain that there is a judgement to come. I will face God as a forgiven sinner, who no longer has a debt to pay because Jesus paid it all already. The unrepentant sinner is eternally separated from God. From the description of the rich man and Lazarus, dying a sinner is not recommended. Our God is a consuming fire. It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God!

    pud’s words are meaningless drivel. If he really is an atheist he should know that his life is utterly pointless. It has as much meaning as a glass of water tipped into the ocean. I don’t know why he bothers with his rants. If he is right he will never know. He just looks forward to 70-80 years of misery then – nothing. If he is wrong, then he has had every opportunity to repent and believe. Anyway you look at it, you lose pud. You should get a life and leave the real living people alone.

    • pud

      Demonstrate how it is “plain” that “there is a judgement to come”….waiting…

      Demonstrate that any “god” exists

      Demonstrate that any “jesus” ever existed

      Demonstrate the bizarre concept of “vicarious redemption”

      Demonstrate the existence of any “heaven” or “hell”

      Not “believing” in mindless superstition in no way makes life meaningless. On the contrary YOUR life is worse than meaningless! Your imaginary destiny is to spend eternity kissing some celestial dictators ass! Tell me how your first trillion years in “heaven” are going to be.

      You’re not living…you’re a SLAVE! You live in FEAR, GUILT, SHAME and TERROR of this invisible monster you have to both love and fear! You live with a wife beater! A terrorist! A thug! A moral monster!

      There is nothing to “repent” and nothing to “repent” to…it’s all made up nonsense like every one of the 10,000 religious cults and “gods” that preceded yours. Your imaginary absurdities are no different than all those that came before you. You’re just as gullible, just as credulous, just as fearful as any cave dweller quaking in ignorance 100,000 years ago

      • Monty

        Oooh, I hit a nerve, eh pud. The reality is the exact opposite of your rant. I have no fear because I have come to know the love of God. I have no guilt because Jesus died and shed His blood for the payment of all my sins. I look to my Saviour and so I am never put to shame. I face my Lord, my Saviour, my God and my Friend with absolute confidence. Heaven is my home, not my destination. You are full of demons, pud. They know the truth but they keep you blind and imprisoned by lies and deceptions.

        • pud

          If you can’t show it, you DON”T know it.

          You live in make believe land. You can demonstrate absolutely NOTHING you claim.

          You’re delusional

        • pud

          You have a lot of nerve using the word “reality” LOL. Everything about your world view is superstitious babble, make believe, wish thinking, imaginary and delusional. Your absurd claims about “reality” are no different than those who claim they were abducted by aliens or who saw Elvis in a diner. You stand on the same quicksand as every single unsupported mindless delusional belief ever put forward in the history of mankind. You reject evidence, you reject truth, you reject reason and you willfully embrace the most ridiculous backwards infantile “beliefs” possible.


        • pud

          What kind of a psychotic deity demands “blood sacrifice”? What kind of impotent deity has to resort to the most primitive and barbaric means possible to act out some sick gory drama? What absolute mindless nonsense is a deity sending an incarnation of himself to be sacrificed to himself as a loophole for issues he himself created?

          This is psychotic gibberish that only the weakest of minds could embrace. It is patently ILLOGICAL! It’s barbaric. It’s MADE UP!! and you are nothing but a fool to craft your pitiful enslaved life around it.

          “demons” LOL!

      • Nimblewill

        Repent-Metanoia- to change your mind, your way of thinking which leads to a change of action. You repent all the time. I no longer live in fear.
        Some of our friends posting here need to repent. Maybe this verse will help.

        There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

        • pud

          You live in la la land. A land of make believe nonsense…willful delusion. Fantasy. Sad

          • Nimblewill

            Maybe you don’t ever change your mind? It sure is peaceful here in La-La Land. I’m OK with it, why does it make you so angry that people choose to believe in Fantasy? I’ve never really understood why it bothered atheist so much. If I said I believed in a flying purple cow that lived in my ceiling fan, would that make you mad?

          • pud

            I change my mind when the FACTS change. You bother me because you vote. You seek to impose your delusional world view on the rest of us. That’s why you and all religious lunatics are my enemy and the enemy of civilization. You offer nothing. You retard humanity. Go get a lobotomy..that will make you dull and content too

          • Nimblewill

            And this is why 29 innocent people are dead in Texas! Where does your hate come from. I assure you I don’t hate you. I would feed you if your were hungry, clothe you if you were naked, give you a drink of water if you were thirsty. Where does that come from?

          • pud

            Oh really? A mentally ill man WHO TAUGHT SUNDAY SCHOOL at a BIBLE CAMP killed a bunch of people. He was messed up BECAUSE OF YOUR CULT!

            I neither like you or hate you….I’m indifferent to you. I hate you cult not you or any of your pitiful deluded indoctrinated members…just your cult and the leaders of it who make their living lying to children

          • Bruce Robertson

            Last I checked nobody justified war and killing on the basis of flying purple cows telling them to do it. So on that basis I’d be OK with it. Just don’t abuse any children with indoctrination of flying purple cow worship and take away their ability to think critically and openly. Don’t use fear and threats to trap their minds into a state of psychotic delusion about flying purple cows. Don’t preach that believers of flying green cows are evil demon infested sub-humans, nor the same for those that don’t believe in flying cows at all (they may be the sensible ones here).

            Does that help your understanding of atheist motivations at all?

          • We do not care what your motivations are nor do we want to hear your words against our Lord and Savior. Be gone!

          • Bruce Robertson

            I don’t have any words against your lord and savior because I don’t have any reason to believe he exists. How can I speak against someone who doesn’t exist? If you have some evidence of god existence then PLEASE share it. I want to be saved, but just need some evidence. Why has your so called “lord and savior” forsaken me and given me no evidence? Why are you chosen and not me? I don’t want to go to hell, but I will because you won’t share the evidence with me so I can believe the god stories and go and see a church about joining up. Am I asking too much?

          • summers-lad

            No, you’re not asking too much, but I’ve had a quick look through your comments and it’s clear that you’re convinced of your atheism so I don’t expect a brief comment will change that. Taking you at your word I’ll offer one point though: I think that if Jesus had not been raised from death, the stories about him would have been forgotten pretty soon and only a few specialists in ancient history would ever have heard of him.
            If you genuinely want to explore the evidence, there are various books available – some, I will admit, less convincing than others. One good one is “Who Moved the Stone” by Frank Morison, which is interesting because he set out to write a book against Christianity but by studying the Gospels, came to believe they were true. I remember it as a fairly intense read (I read it over 30 years ago) but worthwhile if you’re interested.

          • Bruce Robertson

            You could easily change my views with some simple comments – just give me some evidence that stands up to the credibility with which I would judge the validity of anything else in life. The problem with all the 2000 year old “evidence” is that it absolutely smacks of distortion and chinese whispers. Any trial lawyer will tell you that “sound” evidence from even 20 years ago (with the same language, culture, technology etc) is just about impossible to deal with when there are different interests at play. When it’s 2000 years it just becomes silly to place any credibility on it – as is well shown by the absolute nonsense we can all read in the bibles. And that’s before you take into account that there has been ZERO other “evidence” of any gods in the 2000 years since. No miracles. NONE. NOTHING on the biggest story in the universe! Just lots of men trying to exert power and influence over other men with a plethora of made up stories and threats of what happens when you die.

            But, being a rational person, presently an atheist, I am open to persuasion. Give me some evidence of any religion and I will join up and devote myself to whatever god is leading it. I am a compliant sort of person, not a rebel. I can’t take any action without reasonable evidence though. 2000 year old stories recounted again by a professional novelist (this is how he made a living) like Frank Morison fall WELL short I’m afraid.

          • summers-lad

            On a lighter note, you said on another post (now closed to comments) that “atheists don’t believe in the existence of any gods or satin or angels or devils or any of that nonsense”. I’m amused to learn that atheists don’t believe in satin.

          • Bruce Robertson

            Not sure why that would amuse you? Atheists don’t believe in things that are made up and that there is no evidence for. Your made up things that are good or bad are no different to someone who is thinking rationally.

      • Perry Widhalm

        Mighty THOR is coming. I heard the thunder and HE is coming. Oh … wait … this isn’t the Norse Gods site is it.

    • NathansFather

      >>> You should get a life and leave the real living people alone. <<< PUD, you may just find the authorities on the doorstep if you don't heed. All posts, emails, and cell phone calls are stored. You are creating quite a reputation for yourself. Resist the demons in you by seeking help immediately. Not only will you regret the earthly position you may be locked in but for certain your destination after you draw your last breath will not be pleasant.

      • pud

        You’re not living..your a slave. A pitiful deluded psychotic slave quaking in terror and fear. You need meds, professional help. Your obsessed with the supernatural…very disturbing

  • NathansFather

    I posted this on another article here on this Patheos Channel. I was amazed at some “christians” with their postmodern you don’t have to repent stuff.. . sheesh irregardless I think it is passed time to report PUD to the authorities. PUD is an unhinged individual. I know Jack has appealed to Patheos without result. PUD is not just abusive here but on other sites within Patheos. Patheos cannot afford to ignore this. They will be taken to task if something happens to Christians should PUD turn violent.

    A potential atheist ready to kill Christians …

    The PUD Manifesto

    The Evangelical Pulpit: Christ is Truth, and we pursue Him.
    Is Stephen Paddock in Hell?
    October 6, 2017 by Guest Contributor

    pud to Karla Marie Robinett
    “ … Sure…just as soon as you deranged lunatics learn to keep your insane cult to yourself, disappear into the dustbin of history like all the other “god” cults have and you stop lying to children.
    Until that day comes I will never be silent. You are my enemies and I wish to see you vanquished and vanished …”

    Do not minimize his/her/it’s threats!
    This demonically infested individual follows the father of liars, thieves, and murderers.
    The haters gave indications ahead of time they meant others harm.
    I take ITs threats very seriously.
    Too bad others didn’t on the Texas shooter with his remarks on the Internet.
    We are told to report aberrant behavior and threats.
    This was repeated in the reporting Sunday and Monday report those who seek to do others harm.

    *** I hope David and the other writers on this channel see that the PUD account’s email address is turned over to the authorities. ***

    This Is What’s to Blame for the Texas Church Massacre

    • pud

      You’re the only psycho here lad.

    • pud

      You need to be turned over to mental health professionals and put on antipsychotic medication…tell us all more about “demons” and “demonic possession” real mainstream scientific stuff! eeeeee!

    • Bruce Robertson

      You are dangerous. I was eating a sandwich and almost choked with laughter when I read your rants about demons. Stop it! I will report you to the authorities.

      Seriously though, you do realize demons and devils are make believe don’t you? If not then you are in a state of delusion and I strongly encourage you get some help in dealing with your mental state. Your paranoia is not a sign of good health either.

  • NathansFather

    ESV Verse of the Day – Bible Study Tools
    November 7

    1 Peter 5:6-8
    6 Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God so that at the proper time he may exalt you, 7 casting all your anxieties on him, because he cares for you. 8 Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

    Read 1 Peter 5

    An outstanding Watchmen’s site:
    Kjos Ministries
    Crossroad To

  • NathansFather

    PUD is ready to explode. Report him before he harms others in his psychotic state of demonic possession.
    SICK! He/she/it cannot seem to let go of ITs murderous intent.
    Easier to call others trying to save he/she from the IT driving the behavior.

    • pud

      DEMONS!!! They’re everywhere!!! Quick!!! Pray to “jesus” to hurl them into a flock of pigs!! HURRY!!!

    • Bruce Robertson

      I have a cunning plan…. just pray to our lord and saviour, lord of lords, king of kings, JEEEEESUS for the demons in pud to be gone! JEEEEEESUS will save us with a miracle like that time he cured my ingrown toenail and made my dogs whiskers grow back after my young daughter gave her a “haircut”.

  • NathansFather

    Part 1 Necessity of confrontation – The persecuted church of martyrs. Now here on our shores also.

    See Open Doors – The Bride Church – and download their World Watch List

    Modern versus Postmodern Culture
    Biblical versus Postmodern Thinking

    There are indeed some churches who still practice absolutism… one is either FOR Jesus Iesous Y’shua or AGAINST Him.
    If you are against Him you are for the evil one whether you believe there is such an entity.
    OH YES he is real! What else explains the mounting murderers but the evil spirit of lucifer?

    • pud

      Should be DEMONSTRATE that ANY “god” exists first. Then there’s no need to go any further.

  • NathansFather

    Look Jack! I hope PUD has been banned everywhere on Patheos. He? was a dangerous individual. We MUST take every threat to people seriously in this murderous and copycat environment.
    It looks like you can remove them as the moderator. Check into how if PUD has not been removed from Patheos altogether.

    Research Berean • 2 hours ago
    I posted this here:
    This is what’s to blame for the Texas church massacre

    At some point Patheos will have to remove the tormentors here by banning accounts and/or reporting the dangerous individuals to the authorities.
    They must or be sued at some point. Count on it. So you luciferians have your way if you must. You are digging your own graves.

    Until then bullies read this:
    I will pray for you bully you are supernaturally confronted with the
    Truth as I am required by my Lord and Savior Jesus Iesous Y’hua.
    Then I will dust my sandals as I turn away. I truly pity your delusion.
    Read this if you are capable. It is written by my dear friend, brother and mentor.
    Thank you for blessing me and giving me the oportunity to post about My Lord and Savior once again 😉

    The Christian Crier: Top 7 Bible Verses About Bullying And Dealing With Bullies
    by Pastor Jack Wellman, Patheos and Telling Ministries, my brother in Christ, mentor, and Biblical Christian man.

    Primary Verses:
    Luke 6:27-28
    Romans 12:18-19
    Psalm 138:7
    Ephesians 6:12
    Leviticus 19:18
    Romans 12:20-21

    David Rupert
    an hour ago

    Mr. Berean — We saw the danger of PUD and his threats and that’s why
    his comments have been removed. I’m all for healthy discussion, but
    that was beyond the pale.

    • pud

      BURN HIM!! Only posters who are willing to agree to nonsense and power post buybull verses allowed!

    • pud

      Demonstrate the “truth” of any single one of your absurd pathological psychotic claims….just one….waiting and hanging out with the demons!! moohooohaaaa!!! BOO!

  • NathansFather

    Part 2 PUD gone! I pray.
    Poisonous uncivilized communication banned. Instead shall we all engage in positive discussion in peace to use at all times.


    Research Berean David Rupert • 18 minutes ago

    THANK YOU! PUD is horrible. He? truly wants to do people harm. I hope he? is removed permanently from Patheos. He? may return under a new identity but we will know who he? is by his?filthy posts.

    In this clear and present danger to Christians we simply cannot see our brethren cut down and do nothing and say nothing.

    And if people doubt we all can be held accountable all communications electronically are being stored. Unhinged people can be easily unmasked.

    Utah Data Center

    Thank you profusely. I am not the only one grateful. We love civil discourse and certainly it was interrupted all over the Evangelical (and other areas) of Patheos. Then we had the enablers and fomenter cheerleaders. Unacceptable.

    Blessings out to you and yours!
    Soli Deo Gloria (Glory to God Alone)

    • pud

      You are obsessed in a deranged pathological psychotic way.

      You don’t love discourse you want every word to agree with your psychotic delusional fantasy world…be honest at least freak

  • NathansFather

    Bruce it is you that are a mental mess. Lucifer has you by the shorthairs and you don’t even realize it.
    I will pray for you and then report and block you!
    Your threats do nothing … What do we have to fear from man?
    We are protected by the Whole Armor of GOD.
    You are wide open to spiritual warfare.
    You have no defense.
    I pity you!

    • Bruce Robertson

      Thank you for your prayers. Can you please include that I win the lotto? This would be much appreciated. I would use some of the money to help people recovering from religious cults, and the rest I would spend on booze and fast women.

    • Bruce Robertson

      Just a follow up on this… your prayers didn’t work. I didn’t win the
      lottery and still don’t have any delusions about existence of gods. Did
      you pray correctly? You do know that you have to be looking up to the
      clouds for it to work properly don’t you? Please try again if possible. I
      want the money and I want to be saved from going to the hell you guys
      keep threatening me with…

  • NathansFather

    Part 1 – Demons, Unclean Spirit – we have some here such as the abuse vocal PUD in particular who is being reported to Patheos and then to the authorities. IT inhabits a he or a she (we think, never has proven IT is a human!)

    ” what are demons and unclean spirits ” [a very long list to access]

    A very respected Christian source:
    *** What are unclean spirits? Are unclean spirits demons? ***

    Answer: An unclean spirit is simply a New Testament synonym, a more descriptive Jewish term, for a demon. The terms unclean spirit and demon seem to be interchangeable in Scripture. There is no clear difference in their definitions. Some translations refer to them as “impure spirits.”

    Throughout the New Testament, the term unclean spirits (akathartos in the Greek language) is mentioned over twenty times. Throughout those passages we read that unclean spirits can possess people and cause them sickness and harm (Matthew 10:1; 12:43; Mark 1:26; Luke 4:36; 6:18; Acts 5:16; 8:7), that they are searching for someone to possess if they are not currently possessing someone (Matthew 12:43), that some are more unclean or evil than others (Luke 11:26), that unclean spirits can interact with one another (Mark 5:1–20; Matthew 12:45), and that unclean spirits are under God’s authority and must submit to Him (Mark 1:27; 3:11; 5:8, 13).

    [continued Part 2] …

  • NathansFather

    Part 2 – continued and a very, very famous Christian source’s book, R.C. Sproul, Ligionier Ministries

    An unclean spirit or demon is “unclean” in that it is wicked. Evil spirits are not only wicked themselves, but they delight in wickedness and promote wickedness in humans. They are spiritually polluted and impure, and they seek to contaminate all of God’s creation with their filth. Their foul, putrid nature is in direct contrast to the purity and incorruption of the Holy Spirit’s nature. When a person is defiled by an unclean spirit, he takes pleasure in corrupt thoughts and actions; when a person is filled with the Holy Spirit, his thoughts and actions are heavenly.

    Some people hold the idea that unclean spirits or demons are deceased humans who may or may not have been evil while alive. However, we know the unclean spirits mentioned in the Bible are not referring to the dead, for several reasons. One, humans are never called “spirits” when the word spirit is used as a stand-alone term, without a possessive. In Scripture, men are said to have a spirit/soul (saying “his spirit” in Proverbs 25:28 and 1 Corinthians 5:5), but men are not called “spirits.” Another reason is that, once a person dies, he immediately goes either to eternal life with the Lord or to eternal darkness in hell (Hebrews 9:27; 2 Corinthians 5:6–8; Matthew 25:46). Human spirits, therefore, do not and cannot wander on earth in their spirit bodies. Any unclean spirit that wanders around, taking up residence in places or people or interacting with people in any way, is a fallen angel—a demon (Matthew 12:4). All unclean spirits mentioned in Scripture are demons, and all demons are definitely unclean, unholy, impure, evil spirits doomed to an eternity in hell (Matthew 25:41).

    Recommended Resource: Unseen Realities: Heaven, Hell, Angels, and Demons by R.C. Sproul

    • pud

      You’re sick….you need help, intervention, medication, serious therapy. Don’t delay

  • NathansFather

    Part 3 – Possession and types of angels – What are unclean spirits? Are unclean spirits demons?

    Related Topics to unclean spirits and demons
    Can a Christian be demon possessed?
    Can a Christian today perform an exorcism? What does the Bible say about casting out demons?
    How do we distinguish a psychological disorder from demon possession?
    Is it possible to sell your soul to the devil?
    What does the Bible say about demon possession / demonic possession

    Return to: LARGE LIST OF QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS – Go visit to learn more!
    Questions about Angels and Demons

    Return to: Home
    GotQuestions.org Home

    • pud

      They have medications that would help you.

  • Iain Lovejoy

    For someone who complains the gospel isn’t preached, you play rather fast and loose with the gospel, if I may say so.
    “God loves us, but He loves those who have trusted in Christ, and is opposed to all who reject the Son”
    Nope. Nowhere in the Bible does it say God loves us only after we trust in Christ. It does however repeatedly say that God loved and loves us while sinners, and sent Christ because he loved us. We don’t earn God’s love by trusting in Christ, God loved us first and sent us Christ. Says so over and over again.
    “Why did Jesus speak so much about hell?”
    He didn’t. The word “hell” never passed his lips. He speaks of “Gehenna” 12 times in the entirety of the Gospels, and Gehenna is not in fact the same thing as hell anyway (look it up on Wikipedia) and he speaks otherwise of “Hades” which I nothing to do with hell at all, but referred to the underworld which referred to the abode of all the dead, good or bad, and had nothing to do with punishment or torment.
    “but what are we really saved from? We are saved from God! And more precisely, we are spared the wrath of God.”
    Are you a Christian? If you are, then you ought to believe Jesus is God. If this were right, the only thing Jesus would be saving us from is himself. He would be like the mafia hood who comes and sells the business owner “insurance” from his own threats. Calling this “good news” to use your medical metaphor, would be like a doctor telling a patient it was “good news” they had cancer on the basis the doctor could also offer a cure.
    “Surely it grieves the heart of God to see thousands of people lost every day”
    Why? In your theology, God is the one who is torturing them. These are the crocodile tears of the very one who is causing the suffering he weeps over.
    You are writing an article criticising churches for not preaching the gospel, then don’t preach it yourself, just your own separate theology which never appears in the actual gospels, and often contradicts them.

    • NathansFather

      I hope you read all the Scriptures I posted on this subject.
      You are seriously mistaken.
      I went over the “hell” Scriptures that indeed Jesus says as well as 2 Apostles.
      Do you not remember what Saint Peter said on the Temple steps saving the 5,000+?
      When they pleaded with him…. brother what should we do???

      You need an Acts 101 review.
      One MUST repent before being given the Holy Spirit by Jesus Iesous Y’shua.
      GOD the Father convicts us all of our sin.
      It is up to the individual to admit their lost state or not.
      Don’t listen?

      Then you are signing your own spiritual death warrant.
      Without redemption there is no remission of sin.
      Then and only then does Jesus call them as the Good Shepherd.

      Now are you given many chances to listen and see the light?
      Yes, but if you do not do so before your last breath you are not saved from the just penalty of your sin. You are not God the Father’s child.
      GOD loves all of His children.

      My uncle was saved from above when he was 83 and about to die of cancer. His granddaughter and her husband led him to hear and see the Lord with Spiritual eyes as those who would testify for God the Father the GOOD NEWS. The peace at his memorial service was sublime. We all praised God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit knowing we would see him again in Glory on the right side of the Mercy Throne with our other beloveds that had passed also. I look forward so much to seeing him again!

      Those Christians with agnostic, atheist, and apostate relatives who die mourn forever until they join the Alpha and Omega themselves for their loved ones who refused to accept the loving gift of grace and mercy from God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

      Do you unsaved care a bit what your physical death will do to the people you say you love? You selfish foolish people. Such pride!
      Always making yourself out as wise! You are wise in your own eyes! YOU ONLY LOVE YOURSELF!

      Simple theology:
      Love GOD
      Love others
      self last.

    • Jack Wellman

      John 3:18 and 3:36 and elsewhere show that you are either for Christ or against Him. It is not loose and fast but what Jesus preached Himself. Some cannot handle the truth.

      • Iain Lovejoy

        I’m not disputing those who reject Christ reject eternal life. What I am objecting to is your statement that God therefore rejects them. You can’t just stop reading at John 3:18:
        18 he who trusts in him is not judged, but he who does not trust him has been judged already, because he has not trusted in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
        19 And this is the judgment, that the light had come to the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light, because their works were evil;
        20 for everyone who does wicked things hates the light, and does not come into the light, that his works may not be detected.
        It is man who rejects God, God does not oppose them.

        • ChristianHedonist

          Look up the many verses where it says god hates some people. We are not children of god until we are saved and have the right to become children of god (Jn 1:12). Until then we are children of wrath.

          among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. ~ Eph 2:3.

          Also, James 4:6: But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: “God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble.”

          • Iain Lovejoy

            Look up your own verses.
            The Greek in John 1:12 is more accurately translated “power”, “freedom” or “ability”. In any event there is nothing there to suggest God anything but loves people and wants them to become his children.
            Ephesians 2:4 specifically states God loved the Ephesians before they turned from their sins.
            James 4 is talking to believers, who were quarrelling, saying God wanted them to be humble and stop quarrelling. It illustrates perfectly the opposite point to the one you are making: just because in a piece of rhetoric the Bible talks about God opposing someone or something, this has nothing to do with hating them or consigning them to hell.

          • ChristianHedonist

            Even if the Greek said that it still implies we don’t start out as children of god.

            Jn 3:16 also say she loves us. Jesus dying on the cross indicates he loves us. There are two ideas in scripture in that god loves his creation and all people as a whole but puts his wrath on people because of sin.

            Here are some versus you were unwilling to look up:

            The boastful shall not stand before Your eyes; You hate all who do iniquity. You destroy those who speak falsehood; The LORD abhors the man of bloodshed and deceit. Psalm 5

            ‘I then will destroy your high places, and cut down your incense altars, and heap your remains on the remains of your idols, for My soul shall abhor you. Lev 26

            All their evil is at Gilgal; Indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels. Hos 9

            My inheritance has become to Me Like a lion in the forest; She has roared against Me; Therefore I have come to hate her. Jer 12.

            Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ ~ Romans 5

            Why would we need peace with god if he loves us all the time? Or if there is never not peace with god?

  • Bruce Robertson

    Well that’s great to hear Tiny J. It’s very rare that people can snap out of the spell of cult indoctrination, but if you have done this then you are truly an extraordinary person. Turning your back on what you have always believed and been told about reality is a very difficult thing. You truly believed that your god (whichever god it was) was real and that he was going to give you eternal life as long as you did as you were told. That was an incredibly attractive and compelling construct (one I wish was true as well – man would I be obedient!). But now you understand that no matter how good a construct, how good an apparent reality, if it isn’t true then it’s so much worse than nothing at all.

    Good on you and I wish you well with getting your life back on track. As a victim of a cult religion you have a lot of heeling to do, don’t expect it to be easy or quick. But it is worth it to live an honest and genuine life, not one based on a foundation of fantasy, delusion, and nonsense. As far as we know this is the only life we get, live it in full reality for all it’s wonder, mystery, tragedy and joy. If there is something after death, then the only thing we can be certain of is that we don’t know what it is and no god would expect us to based on the information we have. No need for us to second guess that is there?

    • Tiny was being sarcastic Bruce. I would think such you perceive yourself an Einstein demi-god you get that. Apparently not.

      • Bruce Robertson

        Well yes I did rather perceive that, but thought I’d meet sarcasm with sarcasm. Did you not spot that?

        I don’t perceive any such Einstein demi-god status, but now that you suggest that you perceive that I would perceive that I’m very flattered. I think. Thanks!

  • Bruce Robertson

    I can tell you would have been a star on your school debating team…. and now presenting the rebuttal for the negating team is Tiny J…. “ahh, it’s just the opposite of what they said”.

    But seriously, I’m interested as to how you can be so certain about the after life story based on the information we have? Billions of people in the world base their lives on completely different sets of information, all with the core of promising a life after death. Which set of vastly differing information you accept as reality depends almost entirely on the culture in which you were born. It’s called indoctrination. If you were born in India you’d be a Hindu, if in Thailand you’d be a Buddhist, if in Saudi Arabia you’d be a Muslim, if in Israel you’d be a Muslim, if in USA then a Christian. Logically speaking, because the beliefs are mutually exclusive, we can all agree with certainty that billions of these people are WRONG and are basing their lives on a complete falsehood. So how can it be that the information we have (we being humans) is of such sufficient and high quality that billions of people, the majority of the worlds population, have it completely wrong?

    And going back to your debating skills, remember that to answer this you can’t just say “no it isn’t”. Also you can’t use the doctrine of your faith either as that completely avoids the point. This also includes nonsense like “it’s the devil doing evil stuff to those others”, which is just your made up stuff being used to defend your made up stuff – it doesn’t move the discussion forward. To defend your faith and creed by citing your faith and creed would only serve to prove that you are indoctrinated past the point of being able to see your beliefs and world view in the context of a bigger picture. Are you past that point or can you still engage?

  • We have repeatedly supplied proof to you GOD haters. You do not read the article links and sources we post. I will pray the Great GOD Almighty confront you to shake you out of your self-delusion. We need NO lectures from any of you atheists. This whole area of Evangelical Channel is about sharing fellowship and love to the brethren. If you would like to read silently without comment. We do NOT go to your Atheist area of hatred and spew disgusting lies. So do us the courtesy of leaving. Now IF you want to learn more about our firm following of the Great I AM you are welcome to stay. And if you finally come out of the selflish foolish wisdom of thinking you are a little god we will be more than willing to guide you in your first steps of repentance, confessing Jesus Iesous Y’hua is the Lord of your life you too will join in the body of Christ. At this true decision to turn to Jesus, He in His love, mercy, and grace will rescue you from the wrath of a just GOD. You are NOT good. None of us are. What you do out on your own is not good. Only GOD is good! Your acts are but dross in comparison to the Great God Almighty power acts that are done through his faithful followers. None of us want to see you go to Hell. We once were lost in our sins. Through Jesus’ great act of love on the cross he paid the ultimate price of taking our sin upon Him. He died and rose again and now sits on the Throne. For His children it is the Mercy Seat for reward. For the rebellious sinners it is the Judgment Seat. At this time you will reap what you have sown. You will not like the left side of the gulf with the other miserable creatures who wished they had listened. But it is NOT too late to turn to I AM to receive the GOOD NEWS of eternal life in Heaven. It will be too late on your mortal last breath.

    Bruce you are becoming just as twisted as the inhabited PUD. Read its posts. Do you really want to be that wicked??? If you persist in your abusive waste of our time and insult any of us you will indeed be marked and reported. Now have I made myself clear? Why the hard line? Because the persecution and martyrdom have come to our shores. We are told to turn anyone in that makes threats against Christians. We will not tolerate the deaths of our loved ones in the body of Christ with more woundings and murders standing by that allow in our silence for the haters to have their way.

    • Bruce Robertson

      Well that’s a great long lot of Christian cult doctrine, but what I really need is some EVIDENCE. If you really have knowledge about something as important as eternal life then you should be willing to share it. Please don’t hold out on me. I don’t need a lot. Just one good example which only needs to pass the normal level of scrutiny which I would apply to belief of anything else in my life. Is that asking too much? I do want eternal life, and if there is a heaven I would like the chance to go there (I hope my dogs – greyhounds – can go there as well, I love them as much as my children).

      I’m not sure what you are referring to when you refer to insults and abuse, perhaps you have me confused with someone else? Having said that, the internet is a place for free exchange of ideas and this is an open forum, so I guess you can’t just choose to hear from the people that you agree with. I thought Christians were finished with burning heretics?

  • tovlogos

    Core pearls, Pastor

    “The chief danger that confronts the coming century will be religion without the Holy Ghost,”
    No doubt about William Booth’s relationship with Jesus and the indwelling Spirit was in tact.

    “…and we know that God “takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked” (Ezk 18:32).”

    …fortunate for those whose only purpose is to wake up and blaspheme God; however, like the rich man in the parable with Lazarus,
    many will not get the opportunity to repnet; the results for those who have tried to bring the gospel can be heartbreaking;
    but their broken hearts will not be carried over the the otherside.

    “although that number might be too high because not everyone who professes to be a believer truly is a believer (Matt 7:21-23),”
    Such points can be lined up with the coming apostasy spoken of in 2 Thessalonians 2; and the “delusion” (vs. 11),
    that will come over the world — we can see the madness taking place as we speak —
    which is overtaking the world at large, as well as quite a few churches.
    In the end God will have exactly what He expects to have.

  • NathansFather

    Daniel 6:25-27 English Standard Version (ESV)
    25 Then King Darius wrote to all (A)the peoples, nations, and languages (B)that dwell in all the earth: (C)“Peace be multiplied to you. 26 (D)I make a decree, that in all my royal dominion (E)people are to tremble and fear before the God of Daniel, for (F)he is (G)the living God, enduring forever; his kingdom shall never be destroyed, (H)and his dominion shall be (I)to the end.27 He delivers and rescues; he works (J)signs and wonders in heaven and on earth, he who has (K)saved Daniel from the power of the lions.”

    Time to go and worship Him in all reverence.
    Have a joy-filled Sunday everyone!
    See you in church!

  • ravitchn

    You could say Christians talk endlessly about the Gospel and do nothing about it. But this is unfair. The Gospel is a Holy Relic. It is a remarkable book or books but few understand it. Few Christians understand.

    The Gospel relates the imaginary dealing of Jesus, as cobbled together by such characters as Paul of Tarsus in his letters and various semi-Jewish characters like the author of John and Mark and the gentile Luke. Matthew I leave out as a Jew who felt persecuted by his own people and wrote an account of Jesus which was at one and the same time the most Jewish and the most antisemitic possible.

    We can know some things about Jesus: those things which the gentile church did not agree with but could not censor out. Jesus was an apocalyptic prophet expecting with other Jews the imminent end of the world and the coming of the Kingdom. In fact, he offered himself as a victim so that the Father would bring in the Kingdom. As usual God the Father disappointed and Jesus died for nought. The church had to find a way of continuing and it did so by the means found in 2 Thessalonians which contradicted the Pauline belief in 1 Thessalonians that the end was near. So what relevance does the Gospel have? It has normative Jewish teaching which can be found all over the Old Testament, plus the incorrect expectations of Jesus. It offers nothing except how to await the end, but with the end never having come it really has nothing to offer. So of course the Gospel has not been put into effect. How could it be? Christians have lived for 1900 years in a false expectation, a false understanding of Jesus, and in fact in a fraudulent religion. Time to give it up and find another fairy tale, folks.

    • R12.18

      That is some mighty proselytizing. Unfortunately you do not accurately describe the understanding of all Christians.

  • Wow, so much fear here. God is love but if you don’t love him back, you’re going into the flames he created for you before you were ever born.

    Somehow this doesn’t resonate…call me a reprobate…but I’d rather spend eternity in hell then a minute in this God’s heaven.

    • Jack Wellman

      I am sorry it doesn’t resonate with you but neither did it resonate with a lot of others some 2,000 years ago. I hope you don’t get your wish about hell. Why would Jesus speak more about hell than heaven? Because He didn’t wany anyone to go there. If you knew a bridge was out that had been washed out, you’d warn the drivers wouldn’t you? That’s what Christ does in His Word. To fail to speak what Jesus said is to fail to deliver the gospel, full-strength.

      • Jesus talked about Gehenna, not Dante’s version of eternal torment.

        • And I hope you aren’t correct about hell because heaven then sounds like a hell unto itself. Unless you’re like Luther or Tertullian, who thought they would look down upon those in hell and give praise. #sick

          • Jack Wellman

            A lot of people hope you are right about hell. I must believe Jesus however and the same word used for eternal life is used for eternal destruction. I don’t look at others, like Luther. I look to what Jesus said.

          • Jesus said those who don’t help the poor, imprisoned, etc. go to “aionios kolasis,” or in other words, “age-enduring/eternal chastisement.” This raises the question, what is meant by “eternal” and what is meant by “chastisement?” Aionios, even if translated as “eternal” does not necessarily mean “time-everlasting.” It does when translated to the Latin “aeternum,” but that is not what is implied in Koine Greek. It can mean “a long time,” and it can mean “time everlasting,” but it is more about a quality, rather than a quantity. And kolasis, even as Plato argued, has a purpose. In other words, it is for the benefit of those who face it. All this is to say that those who do face aionios kolasis are, indeed, chastised in such a way that it brings about eternal change.

          • Jack Wellman

            So then by your reasoning, eteral life that Jesus promised may not actually mean “time-everlasting.” That certainly destroys Jesus’ powerful words about eternal life (John 3:16) so in your opinion, John 3:16 would read, “For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have a quality life.” Wow. That’s a huge letdown my friend…but also not true.

          • That’s not what I’m saying. Eternal (aionios) life is everlasting because eternality comes from God. Eternal chastisement (aionios kolasis), being again from God, effects those who are chastised eternally, and its effects will be for time-everlasting.

          • Bruce Robertson

            A quality life is all we can get Jack. All the more reason not to live it in a delusional state full of nonsense huh? Just because your mind can’t cope with the notion of death, doesn’t mean it’s not a reality. I don’t like it either, but there you go. I’m not going to turn to drugs or alcohol or religious delusion in an attempt to escape it.

          • Bruce Robertson

            Matthew you are over complicating this. Jack just wants to believe his fantasies in a way that is consistent with his delusional state. That is the only sphere his mind can operate in.

          • Lol. Someone’s gotta burn, or so it seems.

      • Tiny J

        Jesus spoke constantly about Heaven and rarely about Hell.

  • R12.18

    “Most Christian organizations would like to send their workers to Bible College for five years. I would like to send our workers to hell for five minutes. That would prepare them for a lifetime of compassionate ministry.”

    What a powerful quote.

    I’m reminded of a pastor who told me his recovery from alcoholism, which required helping other alcoholics recover, taught him more about God than his 4 years of seminary.

    • Bruce Robertson

      Yes indeed that is a powerful quote. It plays on peoples natural fear of death by making an idle threat about complying with your fantasy religious beliefs. The whole threat of hell thing is even out of vogue within religion now because most people accept that it is just bullying behavior made up by men. Why do you want to perpetuate this? Surely you aren’t a bully are you? That wouldn’t be very christian of you.

      I’m sorry to hear of your pastor being an alcohol addict, but glad he managed to kick it. Now if he can just recover from his state of delusion about made up gods then he will be fully well.

  • summers-lad

    What you quote from William Booth is good. But your own message is in fundamental opposition to the Gospel when you say “We are saved from God”. I have never heard anyone say so plainly a statement which proves their understanding to be false. We cannot be “saved from God”, whatever that might mean – see Psalm 139:7-8 for example. Some people could see hell as being “saved from God” (if they take the view that heaven is God’s presence and hell is God’s withdrawal or absence) but these verses refute that. And your statement makes Jesus and God out to be opposites and opposed. The truth is that Jesus saves us from sin because God wants us to be saved.

    • Bruce Robertson

      What evidence do you have for this truth that you claim? Is it that it is consistent with your delusional fantasy world of gods and devils? Can you offer us anything more than that maybe? Would really appreciate it if you could share.

    • ChristianHedonist

      We are saved from the wrath of god. Who sends people to hell? Who created hell?

      Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. ~ Jesus.

      Who is the One? It is referring to god.

  • Booth is correct: ““The chief danger that confronts the coming century will be religion without the Holy Ghost, Christianity without Christ, forgiveness without repentance, salvation without regeneration, politics without God, heaven without hell.”

    Wellman, however, is merely propagating the Americanized/Westernized business gospel. The evidence is this statement: “God loves us, but….”

    The gospel must include the words “God loves us.” I am working on an article that will demonstrate my thoughts–American Christendom has indeed lost the gospel of Jesus.

    • Bruce Robertson

      The gospel of Jesus is just a story, so it can be whatever anyone wants it to be. Others fantasies may not align with yours, but that is to be expected. This is one of the reasons that we should base our lives on objective reality instead of made up stuff. It keeps people in agreement and reduced conflict.

  • PremiumOsmium

    Fortunately, there is no reason to believe that any of that is true.

    • Bruce Robertson

      The bible says it is, so it is. Demons and angels and talking snakes and gods and unicorns. All real. True story.

  • BT

    I’ve been wondering what the hell happened to the good news as well. The American Church seems to think once you have said the prayer, and have avoided the basic obvious sins, and pursue a personal level of uprightness that that’s all there is too it.

    That’s just a form of asceticism.

    We are actually called to go out and DO stuff. To live sacrificially.

    It’s like we cut the book of James and Matthew 25 out of our bibles.

    Because of this, I struggle every week to walk into my church. It’s pointless to sing and listen to a sermon if it just means we leave and avoid committing one of a list of sins the rest of the week. Anyone can do that. It doesn’t take Christ on the cross to accomplish that much.

    I’m about done with it all.

  • Thomas Price

    Meanwhile, rational people don’t believe any of it is true due to a complete lack of evidence. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.