Joshua’s Transition Into Leadership

Joshua’s Transition Into Leadership November 7, 2018

Joshua chapter 1 is a great chapter for anyone, but especially if you’re going through a time of transition.

The Mentoring

History has shown that Joshua has been faithful and he and Caleb alone gave a good report about the Promised Land when they spied it out. These two men knew God would go before them and they could take the land, but they were outnumbered by 10 to 2, and Israel remained in the wilderness for 40 more years. A huge test of faithfulness to God is when you’re outnumbered and you still choose to do the right thing. That experience qualified Joshua to be a good leader, and later he would be, so time proved that Joshua believed God. That meant that Joshua obeyed God. Joshua was being mentored by Moses for 40 years, but now it was time for him to take over the leadership of Israel. This was not, however, Joshua’s idea or by Joshua’s own choosing. It was God Who chose Joshua (Joshua 1:2-5), and not Joshua choosing to be the leader.

The Merneptah Stele. The majority of biblical archeologists translate a set of hieroglyphs as “Israel,” representing the first instance of the name Israel in the historical record. (Public Domain)

The Commission

The old saying, “God doesn’t call the qualified, but He qualifies the called,” seems to be accurate, but God Himself is the One Who commissions those in leadership. God told Joshua, “Moses my servant is dead. Now therefore arise, go over this Jordan, you and all this people, into the land that I am giving to them, to the people of Israel” (Joshua 1:2). God assured Joshua that “Every place that the sole of your foot will tread upon I have given to you, just as I promised to Moses” (Joshua 1:3). And to make sure Joshua had no doubts, God told him that “No man shall be able to stand before you all the days of your life. Just as I was with Moses, so I will be with you. I will not leave you or forsake you” (Joshua 1:5). Joshua had seen all that Moses had been up against, and yet Moses was able to stand, so he knew that whoever God commissions, He commissions with provisions, so God would be all Joshua would ever need to cross over into the Promised Land.

The Command

When God was encouraging Joshua, He repeated the word “courageous” three times. That shows the importance behind God’s message to Joshua. God commanded Joshua to “Be strong and courageous, for you shall cause this people to inherit the land that I swore to their fathers to give them” (Joshua 1:6). A second time, God tells him to “be strong and very courageous, being careful to do according to all the law that Moses my servant commanded you. Do not turn from it to the right hand or to the left, that you may have good success wherever you go” (Joshua 1:7). This time God tells him to be courageous but be careful to do all that the Law of Moses commanded them. That meant he was not to swerve to the left or to the right of the Law, because only that will bring them “good success wherever” they go.

The Direction

God had already told Joshua, and by extension, Israel, to not go to the left or the right of the Law of Moses, so a third time, God tells him, “Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be frightened, and do not be dismayed, for the Lord your God is with you wherever you go” (Joshua 1:9). Joshua was told to be courageous three times, but to be cautious to go the way the Lord prescribed. The Lord also tells him that “the Lord your God is with you wherever you go,” so whatever direction they went, God would go with them. In fact, God not only goes with them, “It is the LORD who goes before you. He will be with you; he will not leave you or forsake you. Do not fear or be dismayed” (Deut 31:8). If God goes before them, then the direction will be clear, but it will also be prosperous if they walk in obedience to the Law. There is safety being in the stream of God’s will.

Marching Orders

Joshua Passing the River Jordan. Benjamin West.

After Joshua receives his instructions from God, Joshua now commands “the officers of the people, “Pass through the midst of the camp and command the people, ‘Prepare your provisions, for within three days you are to pass over this Jordan to go in to take possession of the land that the Lord your God is giving you to possess” (Joshua 1:10-11). They have their marching orders, but not before Joshua proved over time to be faithful in obeying God; not before God commissioned him to take over the leadership of Israel after Moses’ death; and not before God encouraged Joshua and reminded Him to walk in the ways of God. Only then would their way be prosperous. It was not until all this that Joshua was finally prepared to take Israel over into the Promised Land. To encourage Israel, Joshua tells them, “The Lord your God is providing you a place of rest and will give you this land” (Joshua 1:13b), and when they cross into the Promised Land, Joshua reassures them that “Your wives, your little ones, and your livestock shall remain in the land that Moses gave you beyond the Jordan, but all the men of valor among you shall pass over armed before your brothers and shall help them” (Joshua 1:14). It will not be “until the Lord gives rest to your brothers as he has to you, and they also take possession of the land that the Lord your God is giving them. Then you shall return to the land of your possession and shall possess it” (Joshua 1:15). In other words, God wants the nation’s military to stay together until the land is safe enough for the women and children to safely dwell in it, but the whole nation is to cooperate until all of this is accomplished.  The cooperatin of others is what you will need to be more successful.

Conclusion

Everyone has had to go through a time of transition, and it can be very difficult to adjust, so if you are in a time of transition, then Joshua chapter 1 should encourage you. It was great advice for Joshua, and it is great advice still. God wants us to know, more than three times, that He goes with us and He goes before us, and will not change His mind and forsake us, therefore “It is the LORD who goes before you. He will be with you; he will not leave you or forsake you. Do not fear or be dismayed” (Deut 31:8). I pray that encourages you in your time of change.

Article by Jack Wellman

Jack Wellman is Pastor of the Mulvane Brethren Church in Mulvane Kansas. Jack is a writer at Christian Quotes and also the Senior Writer at What Christians Want To Know whose mission is to equip, encourage, and energize Christians and to address questions about the believer’s daily walk with God and the Bible. You can follow Jack on Google Plus or check out his book Teaching Children the Gospel available on Amazon.

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What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • Andres Desaya

    Leadership is, has been and will always be a gift of God. And being aware that with all the accomplishments, victories….is because of His power… only “to God be the Glory”.

    • Guestie

      “Leadership is, has been and will always be a gift of God.”

      So how do you apply that to some of the most accomplished but horrible leaders in history? It seems odd that God would gift, say Stalin or Genghis Khan, with great leadership skills.

      • Andres Desaya

        “Good leadership or positive leadership if I may say”. But it is also well known that with God’s authority, He can use evil leadears to persecute, punish, test, strengthen His people, etc. and eventually to demontrate His redeeming and saving character.

        Be reminded that 2,000 years ago that the leadership of the Roman Rulers, the arrogance of the jewish leaders and the hypocrsy of the Pharisees played a role in accomplishing God’s His will to redeem humanity via the cross.

        I’d say, it might be difficult to understand for us but with God’s will and wisdom, everything He allows to exist including demonstration of ‘evil’ has a purpose but rest assured eventually it will be annihilated, and goodness will stand.

        And yet again God’s Power and love will prevail and be known, forever. Let us just continue to “fight a good fight.. (and pls. PUD) finish the race.” 2 Timothy 4:7

        Choosing between evil leaders and godly leadership there is a battle to be won. We just need to know and believe, that God is a good and at the end will always win.

        • Guestie

          If I may summarize, you have said that when there is positive leadership, it is because God is good. And when there is evil leadership, it is because God is good.

          It can also work in reverse, though. Assume, for the moment, God is not good. In that case, when there is evil leadership, it would be because God is not good. And when there is positive leadership, it would be because God is not good and is setting up his people for a smackdown to demonstrate the opposite of a redeeming and saving character.

          I understand you wouldn’t agree with premise of the preceding paragraph. Which is fine. I’m not arguing for it. My only point here is that the quality of leadership cannot be indicative of the goodness of a god.

          • pud

            Doesn’t matter to psychotics …they invent whatever escape clause required to keep the make believe delusions alive

          • Andres Desaya

            We may have diverted from the original context of my comment. In my first comment, Joshua (and all of the biblical leaders were good leaders) were able to accomplish their missions because of the power of God bestowed on him.
            As believers and leaders, even now in these modern times, the message is the same, whatever our success is..it is because of God’s power not our own power.

            Next was, you queried how about these leaders who were succesfull in doing horrible things. Stalin, Hitler etc. obviously, as horrible leaders they were “good” in successfully accomplishing their evil deeds.

            Points and differences though: First point is..these horrible leaders even with their success and accomplishment..we can’t say “to God be the glory” because their God given gifts of leadership was used on evil purpose.

            But we can say ‘to God be the glory” when Godly leaders eventually defeats these leaders who chose to use their gift of leadership to accomplish horrible and evil things.

            The analogy might not be..that God is good when there is an accomplished good leader or God is bad when there an accomplished bad leaders. It might be a matter of fairness that God gives these gifts to leaders…but it is their CHOICE whether to it for good or evil.

            Needlessly to say, there is a War going on between good and evil. God has given each and everyone of us gifts, whether leadership or is just simply a gift to choose…it is up to us to use it for God or against.
            There is a choice…(PUD so far has change his choice from a believer to a sour believer and choosing now to be …..)

            Let’s fight a good fight….as a believer my God tells me goodness will always win and evil fighting well in these times will eventually annihilated with the Good leadership of Christ, the Mighty, the Valor, King of kings.

          • TinnyWhistler

            “whatever our success is..it is because of God’s power not our own power.”
            Do you really mean WHATEVER here? Or are you narrowly defining “success” to mean only things that would affirm God’s goodness?

          • Andres Desaya

            Yes, I mean “success” that affirms God’s goodness or greatness. THANKS!

          • TinnyWhistler

            Ok, just double checking that I understand you correctly: If a leader is successful in doing something good, that success is due to God’s power but if a leader does something bad, it’s not due to God’s power? And the word success shouldn’t be used for “bad” leaders because we wouldn’t want to attribute their accomplishments to God?

          • Guestie

            Tinny addressed some issues I was going to take up so I won’t belabor those points. I do hope you respond to his response though.

            Meanwhile, I’m comparing holocausts. I think we are all familiar with Hitler’s holocaust. You’ve already indicated that you thought that an example of evil leadership but that God’s goodness eventually won out.

            Meanwhile, there was King Saul’s holocaust of the Amalekites. Saul was following God’s direction (though not entirely) and so would I be correct in thinking that you would regard Saul as acting with Godly leadership to the extent he obeyed God? Intriguingly, though, Saul comes to a bad end — thanks to God’s goodness? — because he failed to kill all of the Amalekites and their animals. He displayed unGodly leadership because the holocaust was not complete. Right?

            You don’t need to explain why the Amalekites deserved no mercy; I’m familiar with those arguments. I’m focused only on the leadership qualities. Saul did not kill every Amalekite so we can’t really say, “All praise to God”. We could say that if and only if Saul had killed every Amalekite down to every last infant.

          • Andres Desaya

            Yes, you exactly right, actually king Saul obviously can’t ultimately say Praise to God because he did a lousy job in eliminating all the Amalekites including their children, women and animals as instructed.

            If king Saul have followed specifically all instructions, God would not have been dissatisfied and Saul also would be given praises for a good job done.

            In fairness with God’s decision for king Saul not to have a good ending is just not because of this sin alone. We believe King Saul astrayed away from God with his pride, envy to David, even consulting a witch…and I guess many things.

          • Guestie

            Thank you for the dialogue. I appreciate it.

          • TinnyWhistler

            Ok, I see that you’ve upvoted my clarification so I’m gonna assume I’ve got it right 🙂

            If that’s the case, I’m kinda confused about something: From your statement, it seems like you’re saying that choice in how we act only works in a negative sense. Earlier, you said

            God has given each and everyone of us gifts, whether leadership or is just simply a gift to choose…it is up to us to use it for God or against.
            There is a choice…

            but here you say that a leader doing good, being successful, etc, is only possible due to God’s power. That is, it’s impossible to do good unless God’s power has intervened. On the other hand, leaders can do bad things without requiring God’s power to act.

            So, we supposedly have the choice to act in either good ways or bad ways but it’s not actually POSSIBLE to act in a good way without God’s intervention? How is that a choice?

          • Andres Desaya

            The context of my original comment to praise or acknowledging God that we could not have achieve success without His power. It is a part of one’s humility in acknowledging a Divine…

            The choice I am talking about here is when God gave us wisdom, abilities or talents to lead, we also have a choice to use these gifts to do good or to use it to do evil.

            Godly leaders should and would thank God for their success but it is very unlikely for a wise criminal leader to be acknowledging God for a carefully committed crime. Like anyone else, leaders chose their paths too, and that is Choice.

          • TinnyWhistler

            “we could not have achieve success without His power. ”
            Right, that’s what I clarified.

            “have a choice to use these gifts to do good or to use it to do evil.”
            Yep, that’s what you said. I quoted you.

            It seems like you’ve not understood my question, since you’re repeating yourself. Let me know if this helps to clarify what I’m trying to get at

            Combining these two statements with your definition of success:

            (You) We cannot achieve success without God’s power
            (You) Success is defined as good acts, that is acts that can affirm God’s goodness
            —>Thus, we cannot perform good acts without God’s power.
            —>We could rephrase this as “We cannot choose to use our gifts for good without God’s power”

            (You) God gives us the choice to use gifts for good or for evil.
            —>But we cannot choose good acts without God’s power.
            —>So, we’re being given a choice to choose bad. We cannot choose good unless God’s power intervenes.

            See my problem?

          • Guestie

            I see the problem. According to Desaya, there is no free will to do good. Only free will to do evil. Ergo, there really isn’t free will at all.

          • TinnyWhistler

            I mean, I don’t want to necessarily draw that conclusion, just encourage Andres Desaya to either agree that it is the conclusion that must be drawn or correct one or more of the premises that lead to it. Hopefully my effort to explicitly lay out some of the structure of the argument helps them see what the issue is.

            I’m interested in your response to this, Andreas, whichever it is!

          • Andres Desaya

            I just finish my response to you above. I hope it clarifies some issues.

          • CloudNine

            If I were you I would read only reputable Bible scholars of good character for a while.

            Tinny is an agnostic. So he does not have the spirit of God to enlighten him so he stays undecided on things but still wants to opine. He could have gleaned a lot from more spiritual people than himself but it is still better to have the Holy Spirit as your tutor. Or learn from people who have learned from and have an earnest deposit of the Holy Spirit.

            On holy subjects only holy opinions really count and have the higher degree of spiritual accuracy because they come from more holy sources.

            Find a good teacher like Jones here who explains why having the spirit reigning over the soul is important.

            What is Man?
            https://gods-kingdom-ministries.net/daily-weblogs/2018/11-2018/what-is-man/

            1 Corinthians 2:14
            New Living Translation
            But people who aren’t spiritual can’t receive these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can’t understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means.

          • Andres Desaya

            You are right, we can only ask God to touch them if they even allow Him.

            Thanks CloudNine!

          • Andres Desaya

            Will try to analyze your message here (about what kind of environment?).

          • CloudNine

            Take my last post seriously. The intentionally cruel and twisted statements by the atheists in this thread is a testimony to their twisted mental states.

            They need your prayers that God grant them humility now more than any other type of response.

            You can’t reason with people who deny sin exists. That is a basic denial of human reality which indicates a person has ceased to reason from first hand human observation and substituted some unrealistic personal value in reality’s place.

            Just my two cents. Exhorting people who deny God exists only causes their darkness to entrench further until God turns them over to reprobate minds.

            Either God is right or the unbeliever.

            Don’t take on their deep seated case of unbelief without consulting God.

            If God will turn them over to their evil devices then maybe in the interest of true personal holiness you should separate yourself from them and leave them alone.

            Sometimes people out of their minds have to be left alone. That is called tough love. Just like a drug addict. Some will never come to their senses while others will only come once they are living under a bridge. Remember the prodigal son? He came to his senses when he realized he was willing to eat what the pigs ate.

            I am only here for a little while. This comments section is overran by the biblically illiterate who don’t even use God’s perspective when interpreting the Bible but instead use unholy men’s.

            Be sure to get yourself a great Bible education THEN look for the true disciples with teachable spirits to hang out with.

            There is nothing but lies to read in this comments section.

            What kind of a blasphemous, crazy ignoramus refuses to learn God’s perspective then thinks he will teach anti-religious ideas as an authority on an evangelical blog?

            Only a total reprobate who desperately needs to repent but will only do it on his deathbed if ever.

            Don’t you let them waste your time though. Redeem it by finding the people with genuinely God loving, obedient teachable spirits.

            Hope this clarifies. There is no point in arguing with people who didn’t even bother to learn God’s perspective and were not gifted with the Holy Spirit as their tutor. Arguing with them only engenders carnal confusion when people should be pursuing genuine spiritual knowledge from Jesus.

          • Andres Desaya

            Thanks for your advice…. you are absolutely right.

            **Actually, at the end even God will say, “let the unrighteous be unrighteous and the vile be vile..” Book of Revelation. Every human is given the freedom to choose. What can we do?

          • CloudNine

            The strange thing is there are two doctrinal opinions on that. Some think we can choose to believe while others think God chooses by convicting us.

            I believe God chooses. He elected Saul on the Road to Damascus. Of course, Saul was already a believer but God corrected him.

            It says “each is saved in his own order” in the New Testament.

            There are two resurrections. One for the blessed and holy and one for everyone else. It is strange how you rarely hear these “two” mentioned in Christian circles. It is always about heaven. I think the Bible is so densely detailed it is hard for the human mind to retain all the details.

            So it could be both believing and election come into play. Certain theologians describe it differently.

            I sometimes wonder if the elect make it to the first resurrection while other believers make it to the second but am not sure but certainly Christ chose all of his 12 disciples. They even appealed to God by lot when Judas needed replacing.

            Fundamentally, you are dealing with a lot of spiritual blindness in this world but when did ignorance ever stop anyone from opining ignorantly? Propaganda is just a lie that has been told so many times that many people start to believe it.
            But I know spiritual blindness is real. It’s funny how many of these unbelievers will demand evidence like learned propaganda but not many have the nerve to get out of the boat and put God to the test.

            You may be putting God to the test right now performing the Great Commission. Just learn everything you can about the scriptures because there is some really ignorant scripture twisting that goes on in some unbelievers heads and they really shouldn’t be so anxious to opine when God will hold them accountable for every word. He already said He would. You can’t know Him without the Spirit of God yet these arguer/skeptics keep insisting He does not exist when they never accept the burden of proof for proving it as it is unprovable. They just want to cast confusion and doubt.

            After awhile the blasphemy gets old and I think God hears enough of it out of them.

            If they don’t know then they should not argue to deconvert people.

            There are a lot of people who have been touched by God but you never see an atheist interviewing them. You only see the pat excuses they give in their attempts to discredit them but the unbeliever wasn’t there so why do they get to dismiss another person’s experience with a pat pet explanation? They need to seek God for themselves or stop meddling with theists and mind their own business.

            Some people are spiritually blinder than others and God controls the veil and nobody but God controls when the veil will lift. He’s not a puppet so why do so many theists try to force the veil by threats of hell fire? He’s obviously not a puppet or we wouldn’t have to petition Him in prayer. Fire in many instances in the Bible is spiritual not literal. God is a consuming fire. Is that fire spiritual or literal? Unfortunately many people like their overly literal translations of the Bible. But Paul said a Christian reasons from spiritual to spiritual not spiritual to literal.

          • Andres Desaya

            Alright, I’m reading your posts. (just doing some finishing touches to tinny and guesty, then will ignore them..yes they are just actually nuisance.)

          • CloudNine

            Well I did not read all your posts but I did know you were dialoging with unbelievers.

            I just felt the urge to post 1 Cor. 2:14 particularly for the unbelievers. They ought to want their spiritual blindness corrected instead of arguing as false authorities all the time.

            Arguing just gives them a free pass to ignore Romans 1 and 1 Cor. 2:14 and go on deluding themselves that science is an authority over the metaphysical when clearly science is no authority over the metaphysical. It has only just mastered more material knowledge. But they have not shown how science has authority over the metaphysical they just chose to believe science ahead of God. The agnostic Stephen Gould was more honest. He didn’t know he was spiritually blind but he sensed that materialism had no business asserting authority over the metaphysical and said so.

            So stop arguing with them or they will continue to try to force you to bow to their false authority. I know their tactics and it is what all these unbelieving arguers always do.

            Can’t take a lick of direction from God but want to upset your faith and drive you into spiritual confusion with them.

            Have a blessed day and look for the teachable ones. They’re less frustrating to deal with than these unbelieving fellows.

          • Andres Desaya

            Well noted. I hope in the future you may share with me the wisdom and knowledge God has showed you too.

          • TinnyWhistler

            I’m sorry that i was a nuisance, that was not my intent. I’m trying to work on being able to communicate more clearly and I apologize that I failed here.

          • “There is no point arguing with people who didn’t bother to learn God’s perspective and were not gifted with the Holy Spirit as their tutor.”

            I see that you keep on arguing with Pud, but advise other Christians not to do so. Why is that? Don’t you take your own advice? See Jack’s article on Friendship.

          • CloudNine

            Oh I am done. Just wanted to post 1 Corinthians 2:14.

            It is strange how everyone thinks they will not master God’s perspective but show up on a Christian board and opine against Him.

            Why would a Christian want to share carnal people’s ideas. We were only carnal once too but we’re reborn spiritually into a New Creation.

            We don’t need to keep revisiting the old carnal nature with unbelievers on a daily basis.

            We’re suppose to die to the old self daily.

            You unbelievers show up on this board to shove something down a believers throat that he has already experienced but now is onto something better. Thanks be to God.

            I am out of here. I get tired of reading atheist propaganda. Been there. Done that and still don’t believe that natural man’s reasoning. The Leading of the Spirit is much better.

            Have a nice day.

          • What did I “… shove down your throat”? I merely quoted you and asked to explain why you gave advice to other Christians about “not arguing with people who didn’t bother to learn God’s perspective …”, yet on the previous article by Jack Wellman you argued back and forth with Pud, contrary with what you advised other Christians. All I asked you was why you were not taking your own advice. How is this asking this question shoving atheist views down your throat? How is this atheist propaganda?

          • Andres Desaya

            (Read my answer to Tinny.. above that might give you more clarification) Here though, I don’t know why you interpret it that there is no free will at all. That is just totally the opposite of what my comment is all about.

          • Guestie

            Your conclusion does not logically follow from your premises, as Tinny has explained.

            My interpretation (that you don’t think free will exists) rests on my accepting that you sincerely believe your premises as true. However, as Tinny has pointed out, it may be that one (or more) of your premises are not true. While acknowledging that that alone would not validate your conclusion, it would at least remove the invalidation that currently exists.

            Here’s a tip for you to consider: Your responses are too long. You should take more time and write shorter responses. That might help you spot the logical flaws more easily.

          • Andres Desaya

            Let me make it short then, is someone making you become good or evl? If nobody is forcing you, and you are what you are, whether a believer, an agnostic, or whatever you want to become then that means YOU HAVE A CHOICE!
            That is my point, freedom to CHOOSE…no more, no less. Believe or not to believe.

            Now, my personal question to you.. Is someone forcing you? Just answer my question with two words… YES or NO? You don’t need to explain. Your answer will answer your question to me.

          • Guestie

            By reiterating that people have a choice to do good or evil, you are negating your premise that we cannot perform good acts without God’s power. I don’t want to put words into Tinny’s mouth but I suspect that was his/her point. I regard your move here as progress and congratulate you for being willing to change your view to be logically consistent.

            ——

            “Your answer will answer your question to me.”

            If you’ll re-read my last couple of comments, you should notice that I haven’t asked you any questions about free will. However, you have asked me a question which I am happy to address.

            “Is someone forcing you?… YES or NO?”

            First, I reject the notion that “yes” and “no” exhaust the range of possible or even plausible answers to your question. As you’ve argued, it is possible for someone to do good without their being aware that they are doing good only because of someone else. So you must realize that it is possible to be controlled by someone else without knowing it.

            Second, you’ve suggested that control is exerted by “someone” rather than “something”. A dubious premise, in my view. But I’m willing to expand your question to “Am I being controlled by someone or something?”

            And so my answer is: I don’t know.

            How can you tell?

          • Andres Desaya

            Is someone forcing you? Simple YES or NO? What do you mean you don’t know?

          • Guestie

            How can you tell if you are being influenced/controlled by something that you cannot perceive? Surely you aren’t now suggesting that God or Satan is incapable of that, are you?

            You’ve already argued that God empowers people to do good deeds without their being aware that it was God who enabled them to do it. Hindu believers, for example. Let’s say a Hindu credits Ganesh for his/her good deeds. Your argument, if I understand it correctly, is that Ganesh had nothing to do with it. Only God enabled it. So, if I understand you correctly, that Hindu is being controlled by God but doesn’t know it.

          • Andres Desaya

            I am asking you a personal question..You, yourself, (not talking about anyone, hindu, christian etc.) My question is simple..why are you so evasive? Scared to say…YES or NO?
            Talk to me when you found out okay. Make sure your answer is you answer not anyone else.

            Free your will to answer my queetion, Guesty..bye for now until you can answer YES or NO..

          • Guestie

            I have answered the question. I’ve also explained why yes/no are not the only answers. At this point you would do well to address the points I’ve made — some of which you already voiced yourself although it sounds as if you may be changing your position again — about how one can determine whether or not one can be influenced or controlled by an imperceptible force. Repeating a flawed question is a logical dead end.

            Scared? I can’t think of anything in this conversation that is the least bit frightening. What do you think there is for me to be afraid of?

          • Andres Desaya

            Well, I was wondering why you can’t answer a personal question that is answerable by Yes or No. Cause your straight answer will resolved a simple issue. No, nothing of any frightening conversation. Just scared to answer Yes or No? Why? Is something holding you up? Simple question, man!

          • Guestie

            You apparently disagree that your question doesn’t permit any answer except yes or no even though you yourself have provided an example of how that isn’t the case. So at this point you are disagreeing with yourself.

            And the “scared” thing again? I’ve indicated I’m not scared of answering the question by — wait for it — answering the question. Both of us agree that there is nothing for me to be afraid of and yet you repeat the insinuation. I’m beginning to suspect that you’ve realized you have painted yourself into a corner and don’t want to acknowledge it.

            You have said that people can be empowered by God without knowing it. You have said that I would know if I am being controlled by God, although you didn’t say how I would know that. How about if you explain how I would know that I am being controlled by God?

          • Andres Desaya

            Simple test if God controlled or forced you to do something against your will, try remembering something good you did, simple things like helping your mother or a friend in need….

            Then ask yourself if God made you do this against your will. If your answer is No, then you did something with your free will then thank God for being able to do a good thing. Simple, it does not need to be complicated.

            Then if you feel good by doing a good thing, go on your knees and asked God to help you to continue doing more complex good things until God controls you and more stronger to go against free will to do evil. Wow, that is God’s empowerment! praising and honoring the will of God in your life.

            DAMN!!! the Free Will to ridicule the goodness and existence God!

          • Guestie

            I’m thinking about the story of Pharoah in Exodus. He keeps trying to do a good deed — let the Israelites go free — and God keeps hardening his heart. Indeed, God announces ahead of time that he will harden Pharoah’s heart. And sure enough, Pharoah agrees to let the Israelites go free and then God hardens his heart so he doesn’t.

            What is fascinating to me is that Pharoah never gives any indication that he is aware that God is controlling him. He never says, “l’m trying to free your people but God won’t let me.” Every time, according to Holy Scripture, he behaves as if he has free will when he obviously doesn’t.

            And yet you think I can tell that I’m acting without any interference from God. Do you think Pharoah knew or didn’t know that God was determining his actions? If so, why didn’t Pharoah mention it? If not, why do you think I could tell what God is doing?

          • Andres Desaya

            Although Pharaoh knows that Moses went to talk to him by the instructions of God ” and Pharaoh stubbornly refuses”…it was his will that his heart hardened. Like you said he never complained ‘I want to but God won’t let me..” we are accountable to our decisions that are acted upon.

            As of this moment, Satan and 1/3 of the angels who rebelled against God cannot say, “God you hardened our hearts that’s why we beacme evil entities. Until now they continuosly work against God toying and making humans not to believe in God and do evil deeds, and people are not complaining “Satan is making us do this”… the devil and humans are doing whatever they with their free will.

            Ask PUD here, “PUD why are you not complaining that God is hardening your heart..”? and let us hear what PUD will say.

            Even after judgment day, when the devils and humans who decided to throw away God will say “God you hardened our hearts like you did to Pharaoh that is why we suffering in hell…”
            Look at the atheist and unbelievers who laughed at their hearts and scorns God…do youthink it is not their will why they are doing this?

          • Guestie

            Sounds like you aren’t very familiar with the story. There are several times when Pharoah doesn’t refuse but agrees to let the Israelites go. And then God hardens his heart so he is unable to carry out his wishes. Those are the times to which I am referring.

            So, back to my question: Do you think Pharoah knew that his heart was being hardened by God? If so, why didn’t he mention it? If he didn’t know, then he may have thought he had free will when he actually didn’t.

            You keep asking me if I think I am being controlled by an outside force and you keep insisting I would know if I was. But how would I know if the outside force was imperceptible?

          • Andres Desaya

            If you are believer, if you believe you are a spiritual being,, if you have understanding, if you have wisdom, if you believe good and evil exist, if you are able to distinguish the difference between right or wrong, and by praying regularly, by God’s guidance, then use and do these things for 14 days straight/ a couple of weeks, write me and tell me if you are able to know if smeone imperceptible is controlling you.
            If you realize that there is someone controlling you all the time then you are right, you don’t have a Free Will.

            But after two weeks, and you realize now that you are able to perceive this outside force, but you are able to make your own decisions, then you have afree will. But again, you might be right…you might not a free will. I want to know too from you first hand after two weeks. Til then…

          • Guestie

            I’ve never perceived an imperceptible force. And it sounds as if you are saying that God is powerless to be imperceptible.

          • Andres Desaya

            Okay, I really believe that you believe that you don’t have a free will. I hope you don’t consider yourself in the level of zombies or robots.
            Okay, try to do this then, do not perceive God’s imperceivable power. Just sit in your usual couch, do nothing and do not decide anything for yourself until, the imperceivable power of God or Satan will make do what they want. I don’t know if believing that you don’t have a free will makes you a better human or not. I wish you luck.

            As for me, although, I ask God to guide me even dictate me, unfortunately, at the end of the day. I end up using my free will to make decisions and whatever it is, I am accountable of its effects.

            Although you made up your mind about this though…it does not work on judgment t day. People who refused God cant blame Satan of what they chose to follow.

          • Guestie

            It is not the case that I believe I don’t have free will. My answer was “l don’t know.” How you turn that into something else is beyond me.

            I haven’t refused God anything. Not sure where you got that from either.

          • Andres Desaya

            I never mentioned “you have refused God anything” but since you said “you have not”; knowingly or unknowingly, you have already “perceived” God because you identified Him and obviously you have been excercising your” Free Will” because you have not refused Him and did not mention you were forced “not to refused Him”. It automatically interprets that you have a “Free Will” because you have chosen willingly.

            Now “you know” instead of “I do not know” we have a free will. Continue perceiving God and enjoy your free will not refusing HIM for anything. We are free to choose..believe on Him or not to believe,,follow or not to follow….blessings or cursings, it is a choice God has given humanity.

            Be Guestie or PUD…. Thank you, be blessed.

            (topic well settled with God guiding our thoughts)

          • Guestie

            Perhaps I misunderstood your previous comment. I thought you were including me in “Although you made up your mind about this though…it does not work on judgment t day. People who refused God …” But now it seems you did not intend that to apply to me.

            Your logic is flawed however. I haven’t refused God in the same way that I haven’t refused a unicorn. Surely you aren’t suggesting that I must have perceived a unicorn because I haven’t refused one.

            What is this PUD thing you refer to? I don’t know that acronym.

            I’m curious if your 14 day experiment works with non-God deities. If I pray to Ganesh for 14 days and begin to perceive that Ganesh is empowering me to do good, can I trust my senses to be accurate? If not, how can I know that my senses are accurate with respect to God?

          • Andres Desaya

            So sorry to know that you are aware that you seem to lost all your senses because of this conversation.

            ( this may help you go back to your senses, try to chant the name “Ganesh” 100 times x 14days, then unlock horns with unicorn. then free your will to understand everyday no one is forcing you to do things) hope this helps if not makes things worse.

            God bless!

            (Wow, really smart kid!)

          • Guestie

            Another non-sequitur.

            I do wish you had managed to address the points in this discussion instead of avoiding them.

            I understand that you believe you have free will but you’ve never been able to explain how you know that what you believe is factual.

          • Andres Desaya

            If free will exists to me, and I am excercising it daily, then it is a FACT to me.

            How about you? if you believe that you are a “slave” then that is a FACT to you too. Bye…slave, bye zombie, bye robot..bye guestie the man who does not have a free will. Bye… goodluck on whatever is being imposed to you..bye bye bye.

          • Guestie

            Consider the case of someone who is colorblind but does not know it. He might see an object as green that almost everyone else sees as red. According to your argument, it is a fact that the object is both green and red at the same time when it is being viewed by both the colorblind person and a non-colorblind person. And yet such cannot be the case. An object cannot be two mutually exclusive colors at the same time merely because it is being viewed by two different people. That is not factual. Or do you think that something is factual simply because it is believed?

          • Andres Desaya

            Understand what I have told you, I do make decisions every day, and I exercise my free will…that is beyond just belief…it is being acted out every moment. I am a free man.

            How about you? you “still don’t know”? Start making decisions every day and know you have a free will. Stop being a zombie, slave and a robot and just being dictated upon…
            come on guestie..excercise your free will. Don’t ‘tie’ yourself to ‘guest’. Own yourself and ask Jesus to help you achieve freedom.

            Christ gave us freedom to choose, He is the answer…choose Him.

          • Guestie

            How can you tell if you are the person who sees green every day, knows that it is green, and reacts accordingly or the person who sees red every day, knows that it is red, and reacts accordingly. “Reality” is equally valid for each of them. Both will say — just like you — that they know what is real and what isn’t. And yet it isn’t possible for both of them to be correct (it is possible for both to be wrong).

            Quite simply, there is no way for you to know if you really have free will or if you cannot tell that you don’t have free will. Which is why it seems to me that I have the freedom — although I can’t be certain that I do — to say “l don’t know”. It is odd to me that you don’t have the freedom to consider alternatives to “yes” and “no”. That suggests a lack of free will.

          • Andres Desaya

            Just exercise your freedom to choose…simple, act it out, just do it…believe, know and experience that you are FREE….a God given gift. Jump up and down and say “I am free…yahoo!!!, I have freedom to choose God and be free from evil…yahoo!!! (or maybe you want to choose evil, But pls. don’t)

            Bye…bye…guestie aka ‘zombie, robot, slave..’

          • Guestie

            Why do you say “zombie, robot, slave”?

          • Andres Desaya

            Because these three does not know, would not like to know and do not have free wills.
            They are unlike humans God intended to be…

            If you know the movie.. FREE WILLY.

          • Guestie

            I don’t think you know what those words mean. I’m not a reanimated corpse, a machine, or owned by anyone. How do you know what a zombie knows? You truly do conflate belief with knowledge.

            I certainly don’t understand why you think a slave doesn’t want to know whether or not he has free will. Personal experience ?

            As for God and slavery, God condones it according to Holy Scripture. God intends for people to be slaves.

          • Andres Desaya

            Let’s wrap this up:

            We should not be like zombies acting like someo who can’t make decisions of their own, robots who does things without feelings, and slaves who has feelings but does not have freedom to make decisions.

            But rather, let us exercise our free will to shackle ourselves to Jesus Christ’s love and gain freedom from the clutches of evil, and that we can be His willing servants… always eager to perform goodness.

          • Guestie

            You’ve assumed your conclusion. You haven’t demonstrated it.

            You also seem to have never understood that it is possible act as if one has free will without actually having it. It is possible to believe it, to “know” it, and to be wrong about it. Every argument you have made is based on faith or incredulity. You believe that you know but you can’t demonstrate it.

          • Andres Desaya

            You are dead wrong, it is you who assumes. I do have free will, I make decisions everyday. I excercise my free will everytime… I follow what is good and that is what I want do.

            If you don’t know if you a free will, then so be it. I don’t care. Be zombie, be a robot, and be a slave…be who you want yourself to be. Bye Mr. “I Don’t Know”. Bye bye now…

          • Guestie

            What do you think I’ve assumed?

            Here’s a short list of stuff I have not assumed: that I have free will; that I don’t have free will; there God exists; that God doesn’t exist; that other gods exist; that other gods don’t exist; that I perceive reality perfectly all the time.

            So, what do you believe I am assuming?

          • Andres Desaya

            You assumed that ‘ I have not demonstrated it’. That is why i wrote, “I exercise and demonstrate and follow, act”…everyday, doing my free will.

            Bye zombie, bye robot, bye slave..bye guestie…I agree with you, if believe you ‘guestie’ that you do not know you have a free will then so be it. You don’t need to worry about it.

            Bye.. Mr. I don’t know..bye bye now for real..bye bye…

          • Andres Desaya

            You assumed that ‘I have not demonstrate it”. I do demonstrate it everyday by “making, my decisions, acting it out, following”…my free will everyday.

            I believe ‘you don’t know if you have a free will or not. You don’t worry about that. I respect that notion you have.

            Bye Mr. I DON’T KNOW, BYE ZOMBIE, bye robot, bye slave…bye bye now for real bye now…BYE…

          • Guestie

            You haven’t demonstrated that the decisions you “make” are yours to make. Just like the folks who see an object as red or green. Seeing the color is not a demonstration that the perception is correct. Doing something is not evidence of free will. Thinking/believing/“knowing” you have decided something is not evidence that you have decided something.

            What does “bye bye” mean to you? You use it in a way I’m not familiar with.

          • Andres Desaya

            Okay Guestie, you don’t have free will, you are always forced to do things. I believe you do really believe that you don’t have one. or Maybe you don’t know.

            I do things and no one forces me to do it, and I don’t complain about it. And I don’t do things I don’t want to do so I declare I have free will.

            Go round and round, you don’t have to convince yourself “you have free will”. Yes, someone is manipulating you. Continue being manipulated. Bye..bye now.

            Okay. Bye now…bye bye. Mr. I do not know..robot, zombie, guestie. Bye bye or goodbye now, you don’t need to convince me. I believe “you don’t have one”.

            But you can’t force me that ‘I don’t have one’. Bye bye..

          • Guestie

            It is interesting that you associate the absence of free will with being “forced” to do something. That would suggest you think penitentiary inmates lack free will at least some of the time. If you were an inmate, do you think you would lack free will?

            It also suggests that someone or something with agency exists to perform the coercive action. However, an entity with agency is superfluous to the absence of free will. The absence of free will could easily be understood as a series of reactions to stimuli that don’t have agency. One stops eating because one’s autonomous nervous system signals one has eaten enough, for example.

            And again with the name-calling? That is an ad hominem argument, which is logically invalid.

          • Andres Desaya

            Bye zombie, robot, slave, guestie..bye bye.

          • Guestie

            Goodbye brave Sir Robin.

          • Andres Desaya

            Bye…sincerely yours, Andres.

          • Andres Desaya

            You may know it by asking this question..is God or Satan or PUD or members of your family, cops or anyone forcing you what to do or what to become? When you are writing comments here is someone dictating what you write? Are you being threatened? Yes or NO? Don’t be scared to answer, Yes or NO.

            *** by the way, I did not change my view. you just misinterpreted my first view**

          • Andres Desaya

            We may be a more philosophical here, but can we can also make a phrase like this “we can choose to do good without knowing and acknowledging God has empowered us to do this”.
            Yes, it is very possible, many atheists are doing good things in this earth with God’s power; the only difference is they are not aware that God is using them and because are atheist they missed the experience the joy of thanking and acknowledging God.

            Remember that once we do good automatically that it is an empowment by God. On the other hand, I believe your quiry is..What if God does not empower us to be good, do we automatically choose do bad?

            The word ‘choice or ‘choose’ is crucial here because as humans and spiritual beings, we have the ability and given the right to choose.

            ***Actually, that was the argument of satan to God in the garden of Eden, give human a choice to be bad, let them know what evil is, and let them choose. And here we are, lo and behold, choosing and acting good and evil, suffering relentlessly.

            IF I WERE TO COMPLAIN TO GOD I would tell Him “Why did you have given us the choice to know evil, God should have put that away from Satan when they were in heaven before the rebellion, enjoying life without a choice to be bad, now eventually it desecended to humans and we are paying a great price, but yet AGAIN, God wants loyalty, unimpeded loyaty to follow Him and not to be like Robots…but there is a WARNING!!! Pud warning! believe and follow God and choose the good not evil…***

            Back to our QUIRY though, let us take the situation of king David when he was complaining that God’s power seems to be away from, He says, “you are so far away,
            i am suffering because you are hiding away from me but I still CHOOSE to follow thy statutes and goodness”.

            I think that is the answer of your question, we should follow King David’s example. When we feel God is not empowering us, we still CHOOSE to obey goodness instead to CHOOSE bad. Leaders who gained godly success in their missions no doubt God has empowered them because they chose to be good.

          • TinnyWhistler

            “we can choose to do good without knowing and acknowledging God has empowered us to do this”.
            Sure, but the good was only done BECAUSE of God’s power. We still were unable to choose good without God. That’s still not a choice.

            “What if God does not empower us to be good, do we automatically choose do bad?”
            Sure. That’s as good a way of putting it as any.

            “When we feel God is not empowering us, we still CHOOSE to obey goodness instead to CHOOSE bad. ”
            BUT if God chooses to not empower us, we still CANNOT choose good. If God decides (as he clearly does sometimes, otherwise according to your system bad wouldn’t exist) to NOT empower us, there’s nothing we can do about that.

            So, there’s still not a choice. I’m not talking about FEELING as though there’s a choice, you’ve said that we don’t always FEEL empowered even if we are. Clearly, people feel like they have a choice but that feeling doesn’t necessarily mean anything any more than feeling not-empowered by God even when doing good.

          • Andres Desaya

            Well, if someone is forcing you to be who you are now then you are right, God is not giving a choice. But if you are freely being who you want to be now or believing what you believe now then you are currently exerting your fredom to choose.

            Answer my question now…Is someone or God making decisions for you? Answer me YES or NO. Your ANSWER is the answer of your quiry. Feel free to answer Tinny…

          • TinnyWhistler

            ” But if you are freely being who you want to be now or believing what you believe now then you are currently exerting your fredom to choose.”
            That’s not the case if people cannot be successful in doing good without God’s power.

            “Is someone or God making decisions for you?”
            That’s the question, isn’t it? Is it POSSIBLE that someone can be making good decisions under their own power or is good leadership only POSSIBLE if God’s power intervenes? That’s rather the point of the entire conversation we’ve been having and, like you said, it’s completely possible for God to intervene without people being aware of it at all. If we don’t conclude that you are right or wrong about that, the only possible answer is “I don’t know”

            If you’re correct, the answer is no. If you’re not, the answer is yes.

          • Andres Desaya

            Since, you have three answers , I don’t know, Yes, No, (I don’t know why you can’t give a straight answer as it is a PERSONAL question for you and not whatsoever based on what I think, or what I believe, or whether I am right or wrong…and that you don’t need to open doors to your answers as that you feel not trapped with your answer) …

            But this is what I observe, Tinny as a person, and that you did not say a word of complain that you are forced against your will “of your beliefs, of your actions, of what you are writing here or coercing you what to do say or do things against your will, then therefore as an adult human living in this earth, you are excersing your FREE WILL.

            And because we are in a spiritual setting in the Crier…we are currently excersing these Free will to believe God or not to believe Him, or believe His existence and to be used or not to be used, or follow good or evil.
            My friend Tinny…we have a FREE WILL and we are currently enjoying it. All we have to do is choose, our actions or inaction is a result of it.

          • TinnyWhistler

            Whoops, missed your response. Sorry about that.

            Andres, I don’t want to answer your question according to how *I* feel because I know we disagree about what choice means. I don’t want you to twist my answer to mean something that I don’t mean until I’m reasonably sure that you understand what I’m saying, as I’ve tried to understand you. The fact that you STILL haven’t chosen to address what I’ve said about the nature of the “choice” you’ve presented leads me to believe that I’m not communicating effectively.

            I’d rather fix that miscommunication before introducing another one by running down the rabbit trail that your question leads down.

            Back to my point: You’ve just claimed that people have “FREE WILL”
            You also claim that people cannot choose good on their own. If one’s choices are choosing good or choosing evil, and they cannot choose good, that leaves evil as the only choice. A choice without more than one option is not much of a choice.

          • Andres Desaya

            **Yes, obviously there is miscommunication here, I never intend to twist your answer to not to what you mean…and your last paragraph was not what I meant, when I mentioned about empowerment…I was not talking about free will, this was mentioned concerning leadership..***

            Anyway, concerning free will, this is my personal say, or opinion and just my own and should not bother you if you don’t agree…

            That God should not have allowed humans to have knowledge of good and evil and Free Will as what the devil asked Adam and Eve and all humanity….capability to choose good or evil, hence by allowing this choice, we are experiencing this tragic, tragic situation humanity is experiencing, choosing and acting out evilness, denying or ridicule of the existence of God, being like PUD, sickness, suffering, pain, hatred death, and on and on..horrible, horrible situation.

            But we can not change these anymore…

            All we can do as believers and having faith in The Word, Christ our Lord and Saviour who died in the cross to redeem us “Will wipe away our tears and there shall be no more death and suffering for all these things shall pass away…” Book of Revelation.

            and as the Free Will is still on us..to believe or not to believe. What a tragedy of having the Free Will not to believe. PUD demonstrating free will not to believe and Andres demonstrating the free will to believe…why did you give us Free Will, pls. help us God to believe and follow you.

          • TinnyWhistler

            I’m admittedly defensive about answering questions like that because I’ve had people twist them on me in the past. That’s why I prefer to clarify first.

            “and your last paragraph was not what I meant, when I mentioned about empowerment…I was not talking about free will, this was mentioned concerning leadership..”
            As I’ve stated before, there’s a contradiction here! I’ve stated it very bluntly in that paragraph, perhaps too bluntly, but that’s what I’ve been trying to get at.

            I know you’ve been talking about empowerment in the context of leadership. You’ve said that leaders cannot have success (which is how you’d define good, glorifying-to-God outcomes) without God’s power. However, leadership involves decision-making. Leadership is also not something that only presidents or kings have. Pastors are leaders. Parents are leaders. Teachers are leaders. Within friend groups, there are usually one or two people who are leaders. The apparent contradiction between claiming that people have free will or choice and claiming that successful decisions are only possible with God’s power affects most people at one point or another in their lives so I didn’t see a problem with generalizing a bit and not specifically referencing leadership when I wrote that paragraph.

            Leaders are not a special breed of human that are subject to different metaphysical laws of cognition.

            ___

            On some level, I agree that God “should not” have allowed people to make terrible decisions. People often say that love requires free will. When they say that, I wonder if love requires letting a toddler run out in front of a car! God as described in the Bible has demonstrated the ability to prevent people from doing bad things in so, so many ways but generally chooses not to.

            I do believe that people have the ability to make their own decisions. It’s because of that that I disagree with you that leaders cannot be successful without God’s power intervening.

          • Andres Desaya

            Well put, well referred!

          • TinnyWhistler

            “well referred!”
            Sorry, I’m not quite sure what you mean by this.

    • Jack Wellman

      Well said my friend.

      • pud

        No it isn’t…it’s mindless gibberish like the crap you spew out on a regular basis without any critical thinking.

        • Andres Desaya

          I heard when someone envies someone, it is the one envying who is suffering not the one being envied. Is it true? the origin of evil was Envy of Satan to Christ.

          Be careful PUD, know who is behind you of all you are experiencing. How sad!

          Shake! it away PUD, ask the Lord to help you accomplish to get away from this horrible situation you are in. It not late. Come out of it, you are smarter than the evil one making you experience this.

          • pud

            Are you on the institution computer? How many hours a day between meds do they let you surf the net? Are you getting proper therapy? Doesn’t seem so. Perhaps they should change or up the dose of your anti-psychotics?

          • Jonald Duck

            1. Yes
            2. I am only aloud half an hour between meds
            3. No
            4. I already get 48 litres of anti-psychotics, I don’t think I need anymore.

          • Andres Desaya

            No, I am not. Jonald Duck is, see his answer to you.

          • pud

            You are both clearly, clinically insane. You are neither rational or coherent. You are delusional. You mistake your imaginary make believe world for reality. You clearly “believe” things that are demonstrably untrue. You do not and perhaps cannot critically think.

          • CloudNine

            Why are you engaging him? Read 1 Corinthians 2:14.

            Here:

            New Living Translation
            But people who aren’t spiritual can’t receive these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can’t understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means.

          • Andres Desaya

            Okay.

          • HappinessPursuit

            I wish I could get somebody like Pud to follow me around for years and religiously read everything I write.

            Jack is so lucky.

          • Andres Desaya

            Yes, actually you are right in many senses. Poor PUD though! it is negative envy, is it his choice? or someone is forcing him?
            Well, can we envy Jack also in a goodway? Keep up the good work Pastor Wellman. We envy you!

        • John. F Kennedy

          Your Mum is mindless gibberish

          • Jonald Duck

            My mum died in a house fire 16 years ago. I hate u. I sincerely hope u get testicular cancer

          • John. F Kennedy

            My Dad died of testicular cancer… I hope you get The Black Plague

          • Jonald Duck

            MY DAD DIED OF THE BLACK PLAGUE!!! I HOPE U GET POLIO!

          • John. F Kennedy

            My Dog has polio… I hope you get type 4 pancreas cancer.

          • Jonald Duck

            MY GRANDPA DIED OF TYPE 4 PANCREAS CANCER! I HOPE U GET MAD COW DISEASE!

          • John. F Kennedy

            My Slave has mad cow disease. I hope you catch a cold.

          • Jonald Duck

            MY 16TH WIFE DIED OF THE COLD! I HOPE U GET TYPHOID!

          • John. F Kennedy

            My Grandpa has Typhoid, I hope you rupture a kidney.

          • Jonald Duck

            MY PET SISTER DIED OF A RUPTURED KIDNEY! I HOPE U GET MALARIA!

  • pud

    It’s a story jack. A made up make believe story from a story book.

    “God wants us to know, more than three times, that He goes with us and He goes before us, and will not change His mind”

    Is that so jack? Tell us how you “know” what “god” “wants” us to “know”….waiting. Why “pray” then jack if “he” isn’t going to change his mind? Does this “god” actually have a “mind” jack? Does he also have a “brain” then? Tell us all how you can have a “mind” without a “brain” If you have a “brain” (you don’t need one) aren’t you material and an animal? So is this “god” an animal?

    The point as always jack is that you don’t know jack. You know nothing. You pretend, make believe, imagine, fantasize and live in a self delusional version of reality. What a shame.

    • Andres Desaya

      The Fact of the Matter is:

      There is a man of God here in the Crier named Pastor Jack Wellman pursuing his calling and duty serving and loving God, and thus being blessed and despite life’s challenges is trying to enjoy temporary life on earth.
      And on the other hand there is this man called PUD envying and trolling Pastor Wellman and mocking and hating God..

      The question is…Who do you think has a more meaningful and joyful life?

      • pud

        Drunks think that they are the happiest people on the planet.

        • Andres Desaya

          Actually, maybe not, it could be the opposite. They could be miserable and drowning their miseries with alcohol.

          Only in goodness and in the Spirit of God can we find peace. With us christians, Christ is the answer. Seeking and realigning ourself to Him and we find joy.

          Many wealthy people has claimed in their testimonies that the material can only bring temporay happiness and to the poor as well, there is deep satisfaction in knowing that God loves us no matter how difficult life can be in this temporary world.

          Let us fight a good fight of faith…let us be strong. We have a reward waiting..let us finish the race…

          • pud

            The drunk “thinks” he’s the happiest just like you lunatics who are drunk on a different kind of mind altering substance

            You don’t “KNOW” shit. You live in a make believe pretend world of infantile wish thinking

          • Andres Desaya

            You can only say this first hand unless you are a drunk yourself? Are you a drunk? If you are not, then you can’t speak for them. But if you say so, a drunk can be happy temporarily, maybe.
            Actually, believers finds joy in the presence of God and not only happiness.

      • JRene

        I’ve been reading this blog a long time. Pud clearly doesn’t envy Jack. And the the thing is, no one ever answers his questions. Like, at all. Ever. So rude he may be, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t right.

        • Andres Desaya

          I have been telling PUD about Envy for many days now. So far he never denied it. He called me lunatic, delusional, crazy and many things but he never said “I don’t envy Pastor Jack Wellman”. And actually, I feel a little guilty if I have been hurting him more for pointing this out…it’s not really a good thing to be a part of worsening things for PUD. My intention is just for him to be more respectful to everyone moreso to a minister like Pastor Wellman.

    • John. F Kennedy

      Pud man you have over 8000 comments trying to disprove someone’s religion. Just let it go man, you’re not gonna convert anyone.

      • pud

        How do you know that I haven’t or won’t de-program someone from their religious cult? There are thousands of people who toss away their religious indoctrination every day when some chord is struck and they realize how absurd it all is.

        • John. F Kennedy

          Wow, true hero. Dude just leave them alone, I don’t care about religion either but you don’t see me making fun of everyone because they do. You don’t need to be on a constant high horse.

  • Wasn’t this character called Joshua a genocide general? Wasn’t he the one who led his troops to slay all those in many of the cities of Canaan by the sword, including little children and babies. Then, he had his troops burn these cities to the ground. What positive role model was he? What kind of positive leadership does he represent?

    He wasn’t a pacifist like Jesus was supposed to be. He wasn’t even a just war theorist like Augustine, Aquinas, Luther and Calvin. So why should Christians be praising this character?