What Jesus Christ’s Resurrection Means

What Jesus Christ’s Resurrection Means April 17, 2019

The meaning of the resurrection and the consequences of it, have changed millions of people’s eternity forever.

Redeemed by the Lamb

Caravaggio, The Entombment of Christ. 1602-1603

There is no sacrifice that could have satisfied the wrath of God except the life of the Holy Son of God, Jesus Christ. His perfect, sinless life was the only way that we could be reconciled back to God. Jesus came to give His own life as a ransom for those who would trust in Him (Mark 10:45). Near the end of Jesus’ earthly ministry, He began to speak of His suffering, death, and resurrection, but the apostles were afraid to ask Him about it (Mark 9:32), even though Jesus plainly said, “The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill him. And when he is killed, after three days he will rise” (Mark 9:31). How clear that is, but they didn’t expect the Messiah to finally come to save Israel and then have to suffer and die, but “From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised” (Matt 16:21). The Apostle Paul reminds us that we are not saved by works (Eph 2:8-9), while the Apostle Peter says we aren’t redeemed by material possessions, but only “with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot” (1 Pet 1:19). At the time, the disciples didn’t realize that crucifying the sinless Son of God was their (and our) only hope. Only later did they understand (Acts 2:14-47). At least Jesus gave the disciples hope, telling them, “Yet a little while and the world will see me no more, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live” (John 14:19).

We’ll Be Raised

Since Jesus has been raised from the dead, so shall we be. If Jesus had not been raised from the dead, we’d die and remain in our sins, “But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead (1 Cor 15:20-21). After Lazarus had been dead for four days, Jesus told Martha, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this” (John 11:25-26)? God has resurrection power in His Word, as “God raised the Lord and will also raise us up by his power” (1 Cor 16:14). The gospel of Jesus Christ must contain all three essentials; the sinless life, suffering and death on the cross, and the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The Apostle Paul wrote, “For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures” (1 Cor 15:3-4). And it wasn’t just to the Apostle Peter that He appeared to, but “he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me” (1 Cor 15:6-8). Scriptures foretold His sinless life, His suffering and death on the cross, and His resurrection after the third day. It was all in accordance to Scripture, and all in accordance to God’s sovereign redemptive plan. Jesus was not a victim of circumstances, but as He said, “No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father” (John 10:18).

He’s Not Here!

Rembrandt, The Risen Christ. 1638

One of the greatest verses in the Bible, and one which brings the greatest of news, is found in Matthew 28:6 where the angel told the women, “He is not here, for he has risen, as he said. Come, see the place where he lay.” After the women had looked into the empty tomb, “they departed quickly from the tomb with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples” (Matt 28:8). Mark records the event as the angel saying to them, “Do not be alarmed. You seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He has risen; he is not here. See the place where they laid him” (Mark 16:6). Even Luke the Physician wrote, “He is not here, but has risen. Remember how he told you, while he was still in Galilee, that the Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men and be crucified and on the third day rise” (Luke 24:6-7), so Luke even throws in a little teaching about Jesus’ dying for sinners.  The Scriptures and Christ Himself declared, “that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead” (Luke 24:46), and that’s exactly what happened.


The wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23), but since Jesus never sinned, the grave couldn’t hold Him. The Scriptures say “God raised him up, having loosed the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it” (Acts 2:24). The Roman soldiers “came to Jesus and saw that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. But one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and at once there came out blood and water” (John 19:33-4), so Jesus was officially declared dead by the Roman soldiers. The greatest travesty of justice that has ever occurred in human history occurred at the cross. Not only had Pontius Pilate declared Jesus innocent, even the thief on the cross knew that Christ “has done nothing wrong” (Luke 23:41b), however the religious leaders thought they had put an end to Jesus and His ministry, but it had just the opposite effect. His sinless life, death, and resurrection changed human the world and it changed history, into His-story. Many of those who were formerly the sons and daughters of disobedience were born again and became the children of God. Maybe we don’t have to think that far back in time to remember when we “once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the children of disobedience” (Eph 2:2), however, “God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved” (Eph 2:4-5).

Article by Jack Wellman

Jack Wellman is a Pastor and Prison Minister in the State of Kansas. Jack is also a writer at Christian Quotes and Senior Writer at What Christians Want To Know whose mission is to equip, encourage, and energize Christians and to address questions about the believer’s daily walk with God and the Bible. You can follow Jack on Google Plus or check out his book Teaching Children the Gospel available on Amazon.

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  • Rational Human

    “There is no sacrifice that could have satisfied the wrath of God except the life of the Holy Son of God”

    So none of us asked to be born, certainly not born cursed with a ‘sin nature’, given by this God. No real choice but to act according to our nature, right? I mean God can’t sin because it’s not in his nature (btw…did he choose his own nature?), ergo we can’t not sin because sin is our nature. Yet the God who supposedly loves us and desires fellowship with us…has so much wrath towards us, for no cause other than acting according to the nature he endowed us with…that the only thing that will appease his wrath is…paganistic human sacrifice? Of an innocent? Yet he commands us, the sinners by nature, to freely forgive, 70×7, and bear no grudges against those that offend or hurt us. Hmmm. Yep, makes total sense.

    • pud

      You’ll never argue an irrational person out of a delusional belief they didn’t arrive at via rational means.

      • Monty

        Yeah, we’ve been trying to change your mind for a very long time. So far so bad. No real Christian hates you, pud. We want the best life possible for all people, that includes you. Real, abundant life is found only in Christ. You don’t want that. That’s your choice. So why do you frequent the Christian blogs? Your irrational rants won’t change those of us who know the truth.

        • pud

          Demonstrate that any such “christ” ever existed and that any of your cult doctrine is actually true….Still waiting….Demonstrate your claims of “truth”….I couldn’t care less what you claim and assert..if you can’t show it you don’t know it.

    • Andres Desaya

      God’ thoughts is higher than humans. His wisdom a lot of times is beyond human comprehension.
      But for sure, there will be lot’s of ‘questions and answer’ in heaven when this mystery will be revealed.
      We are just in a testing phase.. but the truth about Him and His claim of a loving God will surely be demonstrated for all eternity.

      • Rational Human

        I know you are just parroting back the things you have been taught to think and say, but you really ought to think things through. When god seems immoral or psychotic in his actions, you can’t take that to mean his wisdom is so much higher than ours. That completely backwards.

        Is god omniscient and omnipotent and timeless? So he knows all things, including who will go to heaven? Then what would be the point of “testing “? He knows the outcome, calvinists would say it predetermined. Testing is pointless. Please, think for yourself.

        • Andres Desaya

          No, you are wrong, Testing is important. He wants our active participation by making our own choice. Although God knows the future and knows who are saved and not saved…it is still us who made the choice.

          Just a good example, if God knowing the future, knows that our “PUD” is not going to be saved beacause he is refusing to believe, actually mocking the existence of God or christendom deliberately by his own choice. (I guess no one is pointing a gun on his head when he is writing here)

          Is it God’s fault that PUD is not going to be saved? Did God decide for PUD not to be saved or PUD decided it himself.

          Yes, God gave tests, but, and assuming PUD failed the test..PUD failed by making his own decision.
          Again, parroting the truth or the truth of the matter….God claims He has given humans freedom to choose….Whether He already knows the outcome does not have significances on our free will.
          WE MAKE OUR OWN CHOICES! we are accountable with our actions.

          **believers believe God is perfect so it is appreciated when you say “it seems immoral or psychotic” because to us it may seem…but to Him with His higher reasoning, He is not**

    • Monty

      Your initial premise is wrong. God did not give us the sin nature. He warned Adam and Eve about the consequences of disobedience. The command was not hard. There was just one forbidden fruit in a garden paradise. Adam and Eve chose to disobey. We bear the consequences, just as God warned Adam. We are born sinners, separated from God, with no way of making amends. God is not obliged to save anyone. Because of His great love, He sent His only Son, Jesus, to bear the punishment that we should have suffered. God commands sinners first up to repent and accept His gift of life. The Law was given to sinners to prove to us that we cannot keep God’s commandments. Those who are born again have a new nature that is of God and where Lord Jesus is able to dwell. He is my ability to forgive 70×7. He is my ability to love my enemies. He is my ability to meet all the righteous requirements of the most Holy God. It takes all the pressure off me, that’s for sure. Yep, makes total sense.

      • Rational Human

        Like the other delusional simpleton on this thread, you merely regurgitate the illogical and circular theology talking points that you have been indoctrinated into, but you haven’t thought it through.

        Before eating from the Tree of The Knowledge of Good and Evil, did Adam and Eve know good from evil? How could they know if God was the good one and the serpent was the evil? Bonus points if you can tell me who told the truth and who lied to Adam and Eve.

        Do you not believe that humans are born with a sin nature? How did we get it? Who gave it to us? Who is omniscient , who created the serpent knowing he would tempt Eve, who created Adam knowing he would sin, and who cursed Adam’s generations for something he knew in advance would happen in exactly that way? All along the way, the omniscient one could have made different choices, leading to different outcomes, none requiring a barbaric blood sacrifice to appease his petty anger.

        You worship a storybook character in a story that is poorly written, inconsistent, and has plot holes you could drive a truck through.

        • Monty

          Obviously you have already made up your mind. It’s a shame. This “delusional simpleton” is the happiest man on the planet, full of peace and joy and he knows that he will be welcomed into God’s presence in the life that follows this one. Shame about you.

          • Rational Human

            You don’t “know” what you think you know. You merely believe the fantasy that’s been sold to you. I believed it too, for 25 years. Till I read books about real science, history, and comparative religions.

            You have chosen the comforting lie over the uncomfortable truth.

          • Monty

            Believe what you like. I have 48 years in Christ. He is more real to me than you are. I’m sorry for you but you choose the devil’s lies over God’s truth. There is a world of difference between knowing the truth and mental assent. If it is purely mental, someone can change your mind. I know what I know. I have seen God, not with physical eyes but the eyes of faith. Seeing really is believing. I did not grow up in a Christian home. My dad was an aggressive atheist. You sound a lot like him. He couldn’t talk me out of believing either. That is because I know in my heart that Jesus is real.

          • Rational Human

            Faith is an unreliable path to truth, a bad epistemology. The eyes of faith is meaningless babble that sounds deep but is a facade with no underlying substance.

            Mormons have faith. Muslims have faith. Hindus have faith. The millions of adherents past and present to religions and gods you never heard of had faith. Faith is not a method of revealing truth.

          • Monty

            You have it back to front. Truth is the pathway to faith. If people believe lies then their faith is misplaced. I know the truth. It has indeed set me free. You had the truth but you failed to put your faith in it. Now you are desperately trying to convince yourself that it was not true. Why else would you bother posting on blogs such as this? I don’t know what turned you away from Christ. Most people I know who have backslidden have experienced something traumatic. We want to help you, but your hostility is not in your favour. You slander Almighty God with impunity and mock His people. We are far from perfect, but you are simply a puppet in Satan’s hands. I pity you.

          • Rational Human

            You just keep preaching glurge instead of answering my simple questions.

            I don’t want your self righteous condescension and posturing pity, I want you to tell me how you know what you think you know. If it’s true before faith, then I don’t need faith or belief or special goggles to see it. If you can’t show it, you don’t know it.

            Let’s start small…how do you know Jesus resurrected? How do you know a place such as heaven exists , what it is like and how do you know you are going? Remember, the Bible is the claim, not the evidence that proves the claim.

          • Andres Desaya

            Actually, both of you, Rational Human and Monty, is predicted in the Bible. The “right and the left”. The one who ‘believes’ and the one who “does not believe”…

            The question is who are we in this picture? We answer the question ourselves. We choose, we have a choice…”the believer or the unbeliever”.

            The next chapters is still unfolding…we choose our roles. Make sure you choose freely and intelligently…is it imagination or is it real. Choose intelligently, there are only two answers and one outcome for each.

            No, seconds pls, only winners! It seems both of you have different choices..freedom of choice is being demonstrated…

          • Monty

            I do not have to prove anything to anyone about anything. If you are so keen to go to hell, please yourself. The Bible speaks for itself. If you had genuine questions and sought the truth, I would be happy to continue the discussion. How do I know Jesus was resurrected? It was recorded history with eyewitness accounts. But that is not good enough for you. It’s good enough for over 2 billion people, but not you. There is nothing that I can do about your mindset.

          • Rational Human

            The Bible is not history. The gospels were not written by eyewitnesses.

            Got any actual evidence that hell is a real place?

          • Monty

            You are already there. I should have worded my previous response a little differently. “If you are so keen to stay in hell” would be more accurate.

          • Rational Human

            No coherent argument, no evidence, just empty threats. Sigh.

          • Monty

            How can I threaten you? By your standard of “proof”, I can’t be sure that you exist. If evidence was water, you’d be drowning in it. None so blind as he who will not see or something like that.

          • Rational Human

            Errr…yeah. “Something like that”. So merely by typing pixels on a keyboard in my pajamas i am providing more proof of my existence than your God is able to. Think about that.

            Or are you a pantheist?

          • Monty

            “The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness. For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.” (Romans 1:18-20)

            You could be an algorithm, with preprogrammed responses to statements and responses. It’s more likely than your premise that there is no God.

          • Rational Human

            Oooo scary! The presuppositional clobber verse. Your religious book says that everyone who doesn’t believe your religious book is wicked. How original.

            My unbelief is a conclusion, not a premise. That’s the big difference between us. You start with the premise that YOUR God exists, and collect only confirming information. I start tabula rasa, and weigh the claims against reality, and conclude that your claims have no substance. Your bible and it’s empty threats has no power over me.

          • Andres Desaya

            Yes, you are right,.. “faith is not a method of revealing truth”, Because “truth is revealed by its own self, it can stand alone”.

            Faith is just important to acknowledge the truth.

          • Rational Human

            Round and round we go on Illogic Merry go round.

          • Andres Desaya

            No, you are stucked, good if you going round and round. Believers are always moving forward.

            Illogic for you. Again, why do you speak for everyone?

          • Andres Desaya

            You are deadly wrong. Believers chose the comforting truth against the uncomfortable lie. Look around you, good and evil exist. Believers believe God is truth and the devil lies.

            You are comfortable when doing good deeds,,sleeps in bed better at night… compared to being uncomfortable when you do evil deeds, a fugitive always looks at the window.

          • Rational Human

            Again more word salad. The existence of good and evil, however they are defined, is proof that those concepts exist, nothing more. Certainly not proof of the existence of the desert blood god that you worship.

          • Andres Desaya

            Wrong, there is more, much more. And your defining of things is inaccurate, as what you claim with the Bible as only a claim. It is also an evidence because it describes truth…the Bible has been describing evil,, told it’s origin…why, what is happening before it’s existence.

            The Bible is telling the past, the current and even forcasted the future… warning us. A false and make believe book does not WARN.

            It is a complete CLAIM and EVIDENCE….the Goodness of God and the evilness of evil. Just look at what evil is capable of doing physically….unfortunately the greatest evilness is it can even destroy our souls.

            We are all staring at what it has described…and yet we don’t believe. We are caught in a fight with good and evil….believe it or not!

          • Rational Human

            Aaaaand there we have it folks. The terminus of all apologetics – the Bible is true because it says it’s the word of god and the word of god is true so the Bible is true. And if you don’t believe this childish circular logic, then you are a big dummy and really mean, and bad things will happen to you.

            Carrots and sticks. False promises and empty threats. That is the sum of all Christian theology.

          • Andres Desaya

            You are wrong again. Speak only for yourself, the Book speaks for itself,
            If you don’t believe the book why speak for it.

            It is empty only for you, only for you. It is full of life, promises, and warnings as well, very sensible and meaningful for us. Speak only for yourself.

  • Maltnothops

    Even when I was a Christian, I never really understood why and how Jesus’ death and resurrection accomplished anything. What was the mechanism? For example, if you compare it a vaccine, we know vaccines work. You get a mild case of something and you develop an immunity to it (simple version). But how does blood sacrifice work?

    • pud


    • Andres Desaya

      As it is said, “blood sacrifice” very expensive.

      • Maltnothops

        Assuming that is true, at least for the moment, that something is expensive is not an explanation of how or why it works.

        • Andres Desaya

          With the foundation of christianity, you need to understand that it is God Himself who is saying that humanity’s redemption is only through blood sacrifice of His Son, Jesus.

          Meaning, for us humans whether we believe or look at it as meaningless or do not understand the depth of the Blood Sacrifice does not have bearings. It is God’s CONTENTMENT because of this sacrice that redeemed humanity from Satan’s claim.

          Then if the human race is redeemed because of the Blood Sacrifice then obviously it worked, and that is the reason christian believers adores Jesus because of this sacrifice..

          • Maltnothops

            So you don’t know how or why either? No worries.

          • Andres Desaya

            Your question was answered, obviously you were not able to grasp it. Read it again.

            Or I may explain this way. You buy a house with money…material payment with material gain.

            In humanity’s redemption from a fallen state…blood for blood, life for life, expensive payment for God’s contentment.

            But that is just half part end of it, justice, punishment and elimination to those who deliberately follow wickedness and evil, and the father of it, the devil.

            Don’t worry if you still can’t grasp it. You don’t need to.

          • Maltnothops

            I understood what you wrote. Unfortunately, what you wrote wasn’t germane to my question. I appreciate your trying though. I can see you did your best even though you came up short. I’ll keep asking around.

          • Andres Desaya

            I would say, it is not short if you are able to grasp it. It is more that you don’t agree with the blood sacrifce… for God to be contented.

            Let me ask your opinion, assuming you believe the fall of humanity is accurate as it is written, and if God asks you what kind of action would you do to save humanity from satans claim? Just give me your thoughts, there is no wrong answer.

          • Maltnothops

            “you don’t agree with the blood sacrifice”

            Whether I agree or don’t agree is irrelevant to my question.

            Your other question is not of interest to me.

          • Andres Desaya

            If my question does not interest you, then that means you are superficially searching for answers for your previous quiry for “how and why”.

            Actually, “whether you agree or not agree” has direct relevance to your question, otherwise why would you even ask?

            “Blood for blood, life for life…” otherwise eternal death! that’s ‘how and why’!

          • Maltnothops

            Is searching for something superficially a problem? I keep my eye out, superficially, for all sorts of things in which I have a general interest. For example, if I happen to see an unhopped beer (known as “gruit”) I always try it. But I’m not actively seeking out gruits. I’ve made some but it came out too sweet. Needed more dandelion leaves, I think.

            In this instance, the author of the blog mentioned that God’s death was the only way people could be saved from God and it reminded me that I had always wondered what the mechanism was.

            Your answers have all been variations on “it works because God said it works”. Which doesn’t address the mechanism at all. You could give the same answer for gravity. “Gravity works because said it works” or ‘Gravity works because God said matter attracts matter.” Which doesn’t explain anything.

            “Blood for blood” doesn’t even make sense here because it fails to address all the non-blood issues. “Blood for adultery.” “Blood for not giving to the poor.” “Blood for posting internet comments on the Sabbath.” What you’re describing is a universal solvent. A perpetual motion machine. Patent medicine that is good for whatever ails you. HOW DOES IT WORK?

          • Andres Desaya

            It would make you a deeper person if sincerity comes with your in depth question. You may not be aware but your question you brought in here might be the core of christianity.

            Christians when they ask these in depth questions and they understood the deep answer and meaning of what transpired 2,000 years ago becomes now a devoted follower and believer.

            I can only speculate the depthness of what you mean by “How does it work” (the mechanism of it). Maybe no one can answer that accurately but God Himself, maybe that would be one of the first questions Jesus will be answering Himself….”Malnothops here is my answer”….

            But this is what is important now, and what christendom preaches about what happened in the cross. It was done to redeem humanity through God’s Love in it’s core… Jesus Christ died and suffered for our sins, it is what is known as the reason “Why”.

            (We grew deeper and questions answered as we continue our journey in this earth with Christ)

          • Maltnothops

            I’ve no clue why you are attacking my sincerity. “Sincerity” is not an antonym of “superficial”. My interest in the question I asked is both sincere and not of great importance. I am sincerely interested in sampling gruits. I won’t go too far out of my way to do so. Get it?

            FWIW, I do understand that my question lies at the heart of your religion. After all, it used to be my religion. The inability of Christianity to provide an answer to the question is likely part of the reason I am no longer Christian.

          • Andres Desaya

            My personal opinion is that you only thought you were a christian, and christianity did not provide the answer of your quiry….You are wrong because it is the way around.

            It is more of You who was NOT able to grasp and understand christianity, that is why you are no longer a christian. It commensurates your words “you won’t go to far to get it”, Yes I get it what you mean. I hope though that is not ‘shallow’ or not deep.

            Billions of humans understood the meaning of the blood sacrifice and became devoted to Jesus Christ. They were able to grasp the answers, the cause, the means and the outcome.

            Actually, Jesus mentioned your kind in the parable of the sower, the seeds that fell in the stony ground..

            As to anyone else in pursuit, of divine wisdom and understanding, is always in the sincere asking and prayer. **Unlike your sincerity of sampling gruits but without going far…

            Nice knowing how deep or shallow your sincerity though. Bye now.

          • Maltnothops

            “Billions of humans understood the meaning of the blood sacrifice and became devoted to Jesus Christ. They were able to grasp the answers, the cause, the means and the outcome.”

            If those billions can’t answer my question any better than you, I’m dubious they understand it any better than me. They have most likely fallen back on faith.

          • Andres Desaya

            Again, I repeat, it is not that christianity did not answer your question. It was answered, it was you who was not able to grasp the answer.

            The key word is “blood sacrifice”, which meant love, ultimate sacrifce and devotion.

            *I guess with you, you want an answer that sounds like this, like a physical scientific mechanism..

            “the blood of christ has ion of .0078mg that when it was spilled in the cross, now can draw humans souls to heaven because it has a negative protons of energy to be ionized, and purified..**

            Nothing at all like that, it is more of a relationship based on ultimate Love and sacrifice..it is more than words can explain.
            It is a binding love relationship between the Creator and human creation meant to felt for eternity….. That is not hard to understand and grasp by many.

          • Maltnothops

            “…it is more than words can explain.”

            That has certainly been my experience.

          • Andres Desaya

            Yes, I can not disagree with you because this is objective.
            Unfortunately, your experience was in a negative way, was not able to grasp the meaning and answer of the blood sacrifice.

            As a seed by parable of the sower, why are you in the “stony ground or even on the walkway” that withered away.

            Was it by your choice? Maybe you could have gone further? Reflect about these questions…

          • Maltnothops

            When you wrote “it is more than words can explain”, I understood you to mean that you do not have the ability to explain it it. Not sure why you keep trying to insist that it is I who can’t understand something that you freely acknowledge you can’t explain. Accept some responsibility.

          • Andres Desaya

            Meaning depthness is achieved even when it is not explained in words, as in the meaning of christianity portrayed by Jesus Christ in the cross.

            You are a very SHALLOW person when you are in a wake of a fallen soldier who died in battle for his country, and you cannot grasp the meaning of the loss or the gain or sacrifice or heroism or anything that is spoken by what you see for the reason that it was not explained.

            Looking at the cross, the blood sacrifice, the suffering…speaks more than words spoken.

            Grasp it without words, and you should be the one to accept responsibility to understand!

            Words of Wisdom:

            Great things are not spoken or explained, it is done with action and felt…and that is the Cross!

            ** Again, be it you to be responsible to Grasp the explaination or meaning for that matter, and the only way to achieve this is…don’t be Shallow!

          • Andres Desaya

            No, you are reading it wrongly, These christians understood the meaning and answer well. In the simpliest way of explaining, they reach the top of Mt. Calvary and they saw the answer there.

            Compared to you that you were not able to reach the top, and yet you imply, “I did not see the meaning of what is in the top”….that is you because you quit before seeing what is really in the top.

          • Maltnothops

            I am impressed that you know billions of people so well!

          • Andres Desaya

            Yes, of course, based on that these christians did not denounce their faith on Jesus Christ.

            As much as I know you too…based on what you said here as “no longer a christian”.

          • Maltnothops

            One of my earlier points was that people who don’t understand how Jesus’ death works fall back on faith. You are suggesting that they have faith because you (surmise) they understand. I find that a most peculiar association. If they understand, then faith is unnecessary. If one understands how the measles vaccine works, then one need not have faith in the measles vaccine.

          • Andres Desaya

            You are taking it wrong, the opposite way! Christian Faith is not the opposite of understanding. Christian believers understands well that is why they profess their faith in the Loving Saviour’s arms.

            Truth and understanding is the foundation of their faith.

            Christians believe Jesus existed and believes on the cause of his blood sacrifice, (we) they believe what He said is true…”I am the truth and the life…” that is the foundation of their faith.

            Christian faith is not confusion or not understanding, it is deep great understanding!

          • Maltnothops

            everything you say makes Christianity less credible and less appealing. It is almost as if you are trying to make sure I never return to that religion.

          • Andres Desaya

            Which of course states the current frame of your mind, upside down. Then, so that I would not be blamed of what will your future will be, I would not write anymore of my own words;

            But rather, I would give you two verses of the Bible and it would be up to you what to dwell on or follow:

            Prophet Isaiah 6:9, stated, “be ever hearing but not understanding, be ever seeing but not perceiving”.
            Jesus said “seek me and you will find me if you seek me with all your heart and soul”, Bible (this I suggest you dwell, it is very important)

            Malnothops, Nice talking to you, Bye for now.

          • Andres Desaya

            Which of course states the current frame of your mind, upside down. Then, so that I would not be blamed of what will your future will be, I would not write anymore of my own words;

            But rather, I would give you two verses of the Bible and it would be up to you what to dwell on or follow:

            Prophet Isaiah 6:9, stated, “be ever hearing but not understanding, be ever seeing but not perceiving”.
            Jesus said “seek me and you will find me if you seek me with all your heart and soul”, Bible (this I suggest you dwell, it is very important)

            Malnothops, Nice talking to you, Bye for now.

          • Maltnothops

            In case you don’t know, quoting bible verses to someone who doesn’t regard the bible as authoritative is counterproductive. It makes me think you are acknowledging that you don’t have a good argument.

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            Are you objecting and arguing without seeking first?

          • Maltnothops

            If you read the entire thread, then you should know that your question is ridiculous.

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            I don’t have to read the whole thread to query if you have made a thorough personal search for God or not.

            God rewards seekers but a lot of disobedient people would like to upset your relationship with God before it can commence because they have drawn a lot of wrong conclusions but don’t mind at all sharing them with you so they can upset your personal spiritual success.

            You are loved by God you know in case no one has reminded you lately so do not let this world compromise your mind with doubts without first acting like an independent thinker/seeker and setting out to discover the truth about Him for yourself. You are made in His image and may decide to let Him adopt you and join His spiritual family if you can establish God’s truth for yourself in your own heart.

            Don’t let evil thinkers compromise your heart by communicating their evil thoughts and compromises to you.

            You think for yourself and start seeking. Try learning all about God’s ways. They are full of mercy and grace.

            Blessings to you, friend!

          • Maltnothops

            If being ridiculous is not your concern then it certainly isn’t mine.

            Anyway, I was helping the other commenter improve her proselytizing.

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            Well thanks for your positive contribution. I was concerned for your soul.

            Have a blessed day and re-read that last post I sent you. You are precious to God y’know.

            Don’t let the malcontented people meddle with your relationship with God in it’s early formation stage.

            Establish that relationship by being an independent thinker and seeking to know Him for yourself.

            God rewards seekers and obedience brings blessing both spiritual and carnal.

            Have a great day!

          • Maltnothops

            Re-read it? I didn’t read it in the first place because you obviously hadn’t done your homework. Reading it would have been a waste of my time. Let me know when you’re up to speed. Maybe you’d like to take a crack at answering my question. So far no has succeeded.

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            What was your question?

          • Maltnothops

            READ THE THREAD.

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            You post it. I don’t always have time to read everything because of other demands on my time.

            God bless you and keep you!

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            Did you just raise your voice at me in this thread.

            I don’t tolerate internet bullying of any kind plus I am not going to risk throwing my back out rereading a whole thread in an unergonomic position which I have done before.

            So you are going to have to ask nicely and post that post or get ignored.

            I don’t debate because God transferred me from the apologetics to the evangelist side of the house. Evangelists teach and exhort in the prophetic voice of God’s Spirit. We don’t debate a thing. We don’t have to because we have God given experience and training and obedience that lead to knowledge.

            I no longer believe God exists. I know He does.

            I hope you take seeking seriously. Why let the devil try to rule you cf. Psalm 119 verse 133.

          • Maltnothops

            In case you don’t know, quoting bible verses to someone who doesn’t regard the bible as authoritative is counterproductive. It makes me think you are acknowledging that you don’t have a good argument.

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            You shouldn’t be worried about arguments.

            You should be worried about your lack of ability to get your heart right with God and see His perspective.

          • Susan Jane Elohim


            You overcome this world by faith in Jesus not arguments.

            1 John 5:5
            Berean Study Bible
            Who then overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

            Bible verses contain wisdom from God that’s why the wise meditate on them, memorize them and quote them.

            “Your word I have hidden in my heart, that I might not sin against you.”

            Read Proverbs, chapter 2.

          • Maltnothops

            It sounds as if you have a tremendous amount of faith.

            Frank Turek wrote :

            “The less evidence you have for your position, the more faith you need to believe it (and vice versa). Faith covers a gap in knowledge.”

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            I like Turek and used to hang out on his blog and I am one of his donators. I almost broke the bank to go to Oxford to Ravi Zacharias program but God said no.

            I’m an exhorter. Exhorters are used by God to motivate people. I can easily knock down the arguments with one verse.

            “With God all things are possible.”

            The devil has distracted everyone with origins and science questions when they need to get their hearts right with God but he has many ways of spinning false idols in people’s hearts and leading them astray. Not just science. Vain imaginings is another powerful way to distract people from spiritual ideas.

            Notice how many people don’t want to talk to you about religion?

            Some of them ex-communicated God.

            A person has personal power to hear God and His representatives on Earth out but the old flesh nature. It generates both good and bad thoughts.

            You need Jesus to generate and multiply the positive thoughts and more faith and obedience.

            Obedience is better than sacrifice but it is harder for some people to learn than making a sacrifice is.

            Look for the true disciples to learn from but know God is working on them, too while they are working the crowds for Him.

            Sin is terrible. Impulse control is hard to learn. Plenty can lead to lots of problems. Look at all the fat people around destroying their bodies (temples). That is undealt with sin because few people have a genuine thyroid problem.

            But you have to be an encourager. This devil and the world tear people down enough.

            Jesus, God and their true disciples will lift you back up.

            We Fall Down, McClurkin

            Never Would Have Made It, Sapp

            Those songs are grown men letting the Spirit testify through them in praise song form.

            Have a blessed day. Look for the obedient ones and learn from them.

            There are plenty of human examples of evil devils in this world. Take a look at serial killers or ruthless dictators. Didn’t these guys ex-communicate God?

          • Maltnothops

            “I can easily knock down the arguments with one verse.”

            Not if that verse is from the bible.

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            Does it matter if you believe that verse? It does matter for you. It matters for everyone.

            With that verse my position if I choose to debate is unassailable. You can never beat a Christian soldier well trained on God’s Word because nothing is impossible with God.

            That also means to truly understand God that you have to have the right heart attitude.

            Christianity is a revealed religion. Humility, love, honor and obedience are all required to really know anything at all about God.

            Observe the scripture twisting by people who refuse to give God His due. Do they have their hearts right with God?

            Obviously there are a lot of people who don’t obey God. There’s far too much crime and war still around.

            Try to find the best obedient Christian teacher and learn everything you can while you still have time before the Second Coming.

            Christianity is a discipline based on a relationship and practical wisdom not really a religion.

            Haven’t you ever heard the phrase “false religion”?

            Christianity is the way, the truth and the life not a religion.

            Think about it. Better yet google what “false religion” means from God’s perspective.

            I may be packing up and leaving soon for the off line world so learn all of God’s perspective while you can. Assemble it like a jigsaw puzzle until God’s perspective comes into perspective for you.

            Have a great day.

          • Maltnothops

            Satan be with you.

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            No need to contact me further.

            Vaya Con Dios!

          • Maltnothops

            Vaya con el Diablo.

            No need to respond to me.

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            I blessed you and you cursed me.

            Book of James, chapter 3

            But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

            9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

            10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

            11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?

            12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

            13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

            14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.

            15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.

            16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

            17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

            18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

            I hope you repent or stick with likeminded people. Your choice.

            Why choose to communicate curses to someone? Ask God for some self control.

            God Bless!

            You’re on block now so you’re not tempted to curse any more.

          • Maltnothops

            Thank goodness. I thought you would never stop replying to me.

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            John 15:26

            26 “But I will send you the Advocate[a]—the Spirit of truth. He will come to you from the Father and will testify all about me.

            Perversion is the price we pay for failure to emphasize the moral content of truth; it is the curse that follows rational orthodoxy when it has quenched or rejected the Spirit of Truth.

            Help us to never quench the work of Your Spirit in our hearts, Father God.

          • Maltnothops

            “I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent.” Timothy 2:11

          • Susan Jane Elohim


            The traditional view is that the “I suffer not a woman…” words are Paul’s own words. However, some modern scholars believe on the basis of content, vocabulary, and literary style that 1 Timothy, as well as between two and five other Pauline letters (see Authorship of the Pauline epistles), were not written by Paul but are pseudepigraphical.[5] Borg and other contend that this verse fits poorly with Paul’s more positive references to Christian women and may be a later interpolation rather than part of the original text.[6] Still others, including scholars/theologians Richard and Catherine Kroeger, believe Paul did write the epistle of 1 Timothy. They present a case for interpreting 1 Timothy 2:12 as a refutation of false teaching, rather than as a narrow restriction on women’s role. Their research leads them to conclude that Paul was addressing a particular problem localized in the Church at Ephesus where Timothy was pastor of the multicultural congregation. A primary example of this paradigm permeates the book they co-authored, I Suffer Not a Woman: Rethinking 1 Timothy 2:11-15 in Light of Ancient Evidence. The book presents the Kroegers’ well-documented research which sheds new perspectives to this difficult biblical text. They present considerable evidence concerning newly discovered issues and problems Paul was addressing. They argue that the verse must be interpreted in light of careful exegesis of Greek word usage, the Greco-Roman customs and laws of the day, and the outside influences on the Christian churches of the 1st Century. While holding firm to a literal approach to 1 Timothy 2:11-15, the Kroegers’ research argues from the background of changes in the Greek language since the 1st century, Roman empire customs at the time the Apostle Paul wrote 1 Timothy, and the problems that the church in Ephesus was facing with pagan religions. The Kroegers’ maintain that gnosticism was taking hold of the Christians at Ephesus, and the women, being given less-to-no education in those days, were more prone to be misled by gnostic beliefs. Those authors present the case that those women with gnostic influence were trying to pass on those erroneous beliefs to others in the Church at Ephesus. Hence, their conclusion is that 1 Timothy 2:12 is a time-and-place refutation of false teaching, not a universal Christian principle for all time.

            Unclear meaning of the key word

            1 Timothy 2:12 contains a rare Greek verb, found only here in the entire Bible. It is the word authentein which is ordinarily translated “to usurp authority”. Therefore, since there is no “control text” to determine its meaning, no one knows for sure what the word means and exactly what Paul is forbidding.[7] Yet despite that uncertainty, most of the more conservative denominations apply the “usurp authority” translation to their restrictions of women’s roles in their churches.

            Above from the wiki on that passage.

            Another version of that verse for perhaps a more exact translation:

            International Standard Version
            Moreover, in the area of teaching, I am not allowing a woman to instigate conflict toward a man. Instead, she is to remain calm.

            Women were some of the earliest and best teachers in the New Testament church.

            Mary Magdalene was an apostle.

            Locate Bible scholar Kenneth E. Bailey’s Women in the New Testament: A Middle Eastern Cultural View and read it.

            You don’t come against a spirit filled genuine disciple of Jesus on the Internet with one Bible verse without mastering the Bible. That’s perversity prompting that.

            A woman apostle

            Rom. 16:7 reads,
            Greet Andronicus and Jounian, my relatives and my fellow prisoners; they are notable among the apostles, and they were in Christ before me.

            Mary Magdalene was called “the apostle to the apostles”. She was the one who found the tomb empty and, of course, told everyone else.

            Why Arguments against Women in Ministry Aren’t Biblical by Bible Scholar Ben Witherington III
            Read more at https://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/bibleandculture/2009/10/why-arguments-against-women-in-ministry-arent-biblical.html#XQTqrtXaRYC0RkQz.99

            Of course, if the men being taught are too weak willed or are chauvinistic sexists I would recommend a woman disciple to leave their schooling to men.

            Some men are far too carnally minded for a spiritual woman to even talk to them on a regular basis much less teach them. In prisons, for examples. Who would take a spiritual woman into a men’s prison to teach them? That’s best left to the men disciples.

            Be sure to study to become an approved man.

            If a woman can study to become approved and ordained then why can’t you.

            I applied for licensing as an ordained minister in 2015 after many years of immersion in the scriptures and the work of evangelism.

            Priscilla taught Apollos and Apollos was a grown man.

            Acts 18:26 (NET)
            18:26 He began to speak out fearlessly in the synagogue, but when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained the way of God to him more accurately.

            Like I said. Learn the scriptures and that will actually require faith first before using them against a Christian.

            God qualifies those He calls and He calls to both women and men.

            Pastor Wellman explained in His Study that new converts are not to be church pastors.

            Have a blessed day. I hope you put whatever is troubling you aside and actually ask God to send you the Holy Spirit who can help illuminate you on the scriptures but that would require you humbling yourself.

            But we are talking about the treasure of a relationship with God here and a whole new heart, life, outlook and destiny.

            Why wouldn’t you humble yourself before the one true God when He exists?

            Make up your mind and don’t let a perverse spirit stop you. Jesus can cast that spirit out and keep him out if you ask him to.

            May God bless you and keep you.

          • Maltnothops


          • Susan Jane Elohim

            Stop preaching the ignorance you learned from people who were weak in faith.

            Mary Magdalene was the apostle to the apostle.

            Do you think the good Lord would let a domineering carnal man lord it over a spiritual woman?

            Headship can pass to a woman when the man fails to lead spiritually.

            I learned that from Pastor Henry W. Wright.

            Go read Jocelyn Anderson’s online testimony some time. She was married to a Christian hypocrite who nearly beat her to death one night but she managed to fake she was dead then called 911 once he left the house.

          • Maltnothops

            My father was a minister for more than 50 years in a theologically traditional sect. He never seemed weak in faith to me. Why do you think he was?

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            People have to learn to walk by faith not by sight.

            I recently came to the conclusion that charismatic groups of Christians have the strongest faith because unlike cessationist groups they come to the most complete dependence on God and do not set man made limits on His power.

            If you set limits on God’s power then you may have impeded your own increases in faith and spiritual growth.

            Donnie McClurkin set no limits on God’s healing power and God healed him from leukemia without medical treatment.

            We don’t know why God says no to some requests He may have reasons we don’t know about or spiritual rules regulating us that He doesn’t want to suspend.

            God had to contravene His own natural laws didn’t he when he turned the sun back in the Old Testament. But maybe He doesn’t want to turn time back. Maybe He wants it to go along a set course

            How many demonstrations of power do you have to have before accepting what God says.

            The fault lies within people when they continuously disobey and challenge God’s will.

            The Jews knew Moses and all the prophets expected a Messiah yet the Pharisees denied him in their midst doing miracles.

            Judaism split between the obedient and disobedient ones. Christianity grew big and received the blessing while the disobedient Jews were treated like the world’s stepchildren.

            Do you have any ideas how many false Messiah claimants the Jews have made over the last 2,000 years while they denied Jesus? Look it up some time. One of the claimants even turned Muslim under duress iirc.

            Theological error could encourage weak faith but a believer might not realize it. Spiritual pride could kick in and people refuse to correct, research and compare until they come to an accurate assessment of things.

            Assessing spiritual truth and applying it requires more attention and focus than material info does.

            Don’t believe the skeptic control freaks that dismiss out of hand other people’s testimonial evidence. They weren’t there but the testifier was and don’t let the counterfeit testifiers keep you from locating the truthful ones.


            God gives people spiritual minds with spiritual maturity. Don’t you think people should start using it instead of staying milk fed by the pastor.

            That’s why there are so few laborers in Christianity. People refusing to leave their pastors and go out into the field for God confidently.

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            If I were you I would get off this site. There are some people who are preaching such blasphemy against God that they have clearly let their own disobedience or an evil spirit and probably both together to drive them out of their rational minds.

            You still could have God build faith in you if you repent but you have probably allowed faithless people to communicate their disobedience to you reinforcing your own sin.

            Spend time in the Bible everyday until God washes your mind free of the disobedient insanity. Sin IS communicable like leprosy and could take over a person like leaven if a person does not diligently heed God and become a doer of the Word.

            Repent and let God give you a fresh start. Now! Today! Atheism is a mere label. Don’t allow yourself to reach the insane point in your thoughtlife that atheism is righteous. It isn’t. The only righteousness people have is through faith in Jesus or God.

            You could still be born again. See John 3.

            Pray on everything until God’s will for your life becomes plainer and plainer and never give up. Your brand of sin may be just more deceptive than other people have but we’re all sinners.

            So trust God to make things right for you and He will. Stop working on yourself. Just trust Him. Yes, faith without works is dead but God is in control and you have to let Him establish firm faith in you first.

            No more reading critics of religion. You’re in recovery mode and done with thinking negatively along with the spiritual nobodies.

            You are on the way to receiving true faith and God will make somebody out of you if you love, respect, trust and obey Him.

            Some info on levels of faith:

            Have a blessed day and remember you’re in spiritual recovery now and don’t let the naysayers upset your recovery with their issues. You focus on God until you feel the peace that passes understanding come into your being. Some people with evil spirits came against you promoting sin and rebellion in your thoughtlife. Cast them out and be done with them and surround yourself with God’s holy word and precious promises while you recover and receive your faith from Him.

          • Maltnothops

            I don’t think you are preaching blasphemy about your god so I see noreasontoleave this site.

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            You are on Patheos. Others could be teaching all kinds of false religion on here.

            But the God of the Bible is Holy so seek Him out in the Bible to learn His holy ways.

            And ask for God given discernment so you can compare things objectively and subjectively and determine the truth for yourself.

            Your old sin filled nature is biased and may be incapable of determining it or too busy rebelling against God to.

            But if you are sincere and petition the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob then He can make a way for you to see the truth.

            Get independent and ask Him and stop letting other people’s fears and biases be communicated to you. That’s what a lot of people like to do. Force their opinions and conclusions on you when you need to receive a good spiritual understanding and mind of Christ from God himself via the Holy Spirit.

            Check with your Dad on it.

            You are personally loved by Jesus y’ know and there is no good reason for you to refuse to accept and receive that love.

            Have a blessed day!

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            Here take this prayer with you for protection. It’s a really good prayer along with the 23rd Psalm, the Lord’s prayer and all the prayers Paul gave in the Book of Ephesians.

            Prayer To Cancel Evil Plan Of The Enemy – Prayers Against Evil Plans

            Be sure to review the Armor of God and put it on and never leave the devil a foothold.

            The churches don’t teach this right. The full armor of God teaching should be taught concurrently with baptism.

            Have a great life in Jesus!

            There is Power

            Kundalini Warning (Demons do exist)

            Remember to be filled with the spirit not malt or hops.

          • There is NO evidence in the NT that Mary Magdalene was an apostle.

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            “Go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God’” (v. 17). Mary obeyed. She returned to Jerusalem to proclaim, “‘I have seen the Lord’; and she told them that he had said these things to her” (v. 18). She was the first preacher of the good news of the resurrection to the same men who had just been at the tomb before Jesus appeared to Mary.

            You research it. Act like a Berean and research it. There are numerous people online who wrote that she is the apostle to the apostles.

            An apostle means “sent one”.

            You have a lot of learning John Arthur. You are going to have to repent and let the Holy Spirit unlock and activate the seed of Jesus’ righteousness inside of you. You have to mix true faith with knowledge to evangelize and teach the scriptures properly.

            God looks on the heart and works on it, thru it and with it when you make up your mind to trust Him exclusively.

            What if you got all this knowledge pursuing the wrong calling. I know a teacher of the bible who switched from being a minister to full time Bible teaching. He misunderstood his calling but now teaches ministers all over the world on the scriptures.

            Think about it. Don’t let Ehrman’s half baked ideas upset you.

            Jesus makes great saints out of great sinners every day. He did it with Saul of Tarsus so he can do it with you.

            Make the absolute surrender to God, ask him to send you the Holy Spirit to lead you in the way everlasting and don’t look back. Abide in Jesus and let God make things plain to you. He does use people but you’re going to have to ask for discernment to inspect those people for holiness. No holiness then you refuse to listen.

            This is your soul you have to guard and you need a whole new spirit to do it.

            Peace Be With You! Don’t object. That’s demonic. Reflect and accept.

            Jesus adds to God’s flock which is God’s family daily. Be sure to make your election sure so he counts you into his flock.

          • Bart Ehrman claims that the use of a pseudonym in the ancient world (see his book called “Forged” for the evidence) was the same as forgery. So you are relying on a forged book as being inspired. How can a forgery be inspired of any god?

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            Who is the man to whom the Lord will have regard?

          • Susan Jane Elohim
          • Susan Jane Elohim

            I want you to know there is an intolerant atheist on the Christian Crier blog who keeps deleting my posts. Without regard to my freedom of speech or your own right to think for yourself.

            Jesus died so you could receive the spiritual birth right of being born again and someone is opposing this right affecting your consideration of it.

          • Maltnothops

            “I want you to know…”.

            OK, now I know. That is intolerant.

            “…freedom of speech…”.

            Neither one of us has freedom of speech on someone else’s private property.

            “…your own right to think for yourself.”

            Honestly, nothing anyone says or does on Patheos limits my ability to think for myself.

            “…affecting your consideration…”

            No, it doesn’t. FWIW, I generally don’t read more than a line or two of your comments. Too prolix. Verbosity obfuscates. Eschew verbosity.

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            Look at it from God’s perspective. God owns the whole world by right of creation. Don’t quibble about how He created everything. Just imagine that He did it.

            He says He did it and God cannot tell a lie Himself.

            Then Jesus sends his disciples out. It says when Jesus did that he saw Satan fall like a lightning bolt.

            All people because they were made in God’s image really only owe allegiance to Him.
            Satan has staked an illegal claim to the Earth and it’s people.

            We think we own things but really they are just borrowed from God who created everything and lends everything to us without interest.

            He blesses the work of our hands.

            So when God has been so good to us (though only Christians know it in such detail ) who are they going to obey? Worldly authorities that may be false or illegal or God and His command to perform the Great Commission?

            Fat chance at getting me to be less wordy.

            I am the teacher-preacher-counselor personality type by birth and training.

          • Maltnothops

            “He says He did it and God cannot tell a lie Himself.

            Most Christians think their god is all powerful. I‘m mildly surprised that you don’t think so.

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            God is Holy. So He holds Himself to a set standard of holiness but the devil doesn’t.

            God is all powerful and all knowing but He’s holy.

            Go read Genesis 3. Look at Eve being deceived into disobediently sinning by the devil when all she wanted to do was be like God.

            What does that entail being like God? An innocent child like Eve pre-fall would not know.

            The devil lured her into sin through her learned disobedience. She learned to disobey God from the devil. She was innocent and closer to God before the fall wasn’t she?

            The devil put her on the sinner’s path.

            It took Jesus’ coming to restore a larger number of the human race back on God’s path.

            Check out Genesis 3.

            Pray then read.

          • Maltnothops

            “God cannot tell a lie Himself.”

            A being that is unable to do something is not all powerful.


          • Susan Jane Elohim

            You aren’t making the fine distinctions in your own mind. Possibly because you lack faith and never spent enough time in them learning obediently from the Holy Spirit.

            The Bible says God can bring good out of evil.

            I will leave you to seek the truth on your own now.

            I don’t argue the scriptures. God raised me to teach them and He provided me with some of the world’s best teachers and teachings to do that.

            Since teachers are authorities on a subject you can go elsewhere since you are trying to buck God’s authority.

            I hope you learn to seek. God rewards seekers.


          • Maltnothops

            I certainly hope I lack faith. I try very hard to root out faith-based ideas. For example, i don’t accept the existence of Bigfoot even though people of faith insist that it exists.

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            Faith is God placing a new spiritual nature in you alongside your old weak carnal one.

            Cf. John 3.

            And you want to dig up and destroy a right to spiritual birth that Jesus died on the Cross to give you?

            You must have your own sinful motive and personal reasons for doing that but that doesn’t appeal to me. I put no confidence in the flesh. Cf. Philippians 3.

          • Maltnothops

            “plus I am not going to risk throwing my back out rereading a whole thread in an unergonomic position which I have done before.”

            Not my concern.

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            That’s right. You don’t care.. You shout at people you don’t know on the Internet.

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            You’re fortunate. I decided to re-scan the thread but I should not have had to.

            Why are you asking for the “mechanism” to how God’s power works?

            His power is His power.

            Why are you looking for a mechanical answer to a power that resides in God?

            Stop thinking like a materialist.

            A spiritual person doesn’t look for mechanisms to God’s power.

            He’s not a magician performing a trick on people.

            Like I said. Try getting spiritually active by seeking God that way you might make your own personal discovery. Lots of people have.

            You can take your questions to God in the Bible directly. At least then you’d be actively seeking His answers instead of arguing with others getting nowheres spiritually.

            Pray then read.

            Faith is a process involving spiritual maturation. How are you going to grow up in God being lazy and not exercising your spiritual mind. Just laying around being fed answers like a milkfed baby Christian.

            Ask God the questions then locate His answers yourself. That way you’ll be exercising and developing your spiritual mind instead of drawing a blank and getting frustrated.

            Use it or lose it.

          • Maltnothops

            So you don’t have an answer either? No problem. I wasn’t expecting one.

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            You didn’t ask a spiritual question.

            You attempted to divert a group of people into agreeing with your spiritually blind materialist mindset like you had the right to control them but you aren’t God to control anyone else’s heart and mind.

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            “According to your faith will it be done to you.”

            You should have asked God for faith not about the mechanism of His power.

            Bad questions flow from bad motives.

            Why would God tell a bunch of sinners that need to be changed how He does everything?

            Do you think everyone should know how to make an atom bomb, too?

          • Andres Desaya

            Yes, you are exactly right. All truth of my argument is based on the Word of God, the Book. I choose to believe that it is true, that is where I base my faith, principles, my future…

            **Yes you are exactly right again, that is why it is counter productive to you because the Bible is not an authority to you….You choose to rely on your own argument, on the argument of PUD, Myles, Madalyn O’hair, etc…there you go, you made a choice!

            It is a CHOICE…simple. Choose Jesus Christ or choose Madalyn Murray O’hair.
            God gave us wisdom to choose. You have freedom Maltnothops!…that is a principle of God….to be free to choose.

            Whether you Choose wisely or stupidly… it is Solely your choice…be wary when choosing! IT IS UP TO YOU, in the future, you will be responsible on your Choice cause NO one FORCED you!

            God does not force!… Bye now, Maltnothops!

          • Maltnothops

            I was trying to help you improve your proselytizing. And you seem to agree with me that quoting the bible isn’t an effective sales technique when the bible isn’t regarded as authoritative. Jeez, no good deed goes unpunished.

          • Andres Desaya

            **No, our discussion here is not meant to improve my proselytizing.

            Yes, I confirmed what you said that it is counter effective to you (and the reason is because you saw it in the eyes of a turncoat so bible verses are not authority)

            But rest assured, if you chose to see it in a believers eyes, God will be able to guide you with these verses and open your eyes and you do not need to improve any proselytizing to understand.

            Now, you need to choose, are you going to use the eyes of a turn coat or in the eyes of a believer.
            Choose…and choose wisely….again it is up to you, God gave you a choice.

            Choose Christ or…. Madalyn Murray O’Hair, even Hitler, PUD and Myles?

            As believers we know that at the end of the rainbow you will be with Jesus Christ or Madalyn O’Hair and even Hitler. It is up to you…the choice is yours. God will not force you.

            **As a believer, I say may the Holy Spirit be with you in making that crucial DECISION..

            Maltnothops! decide, decide, decide decide…make sure it is a GOOD decision! No one is forcing you. BYE bye…

          • Maltnothops

            “No, our discussion here is not meant to improve my proselytizing.”

            It wasn’t the whole discussion. I was referencing only my one comment where I pointed out that your sales technique was off-point.

          • Andres Desaya

            I’m not doing sales technique here…I am stating a fact about “you” and “guideliness” based on the founded verses of a Book I believe but which you do not believe.

            Whether you believe it or not, is not my personal business. As I believe, God made you choice to believe He exist or not exist, to believe and follow what He says if you believe He exists..

            Yet, again the choice is yours not mine…it is open to everyone, it is a personal choice!

          • Maltnothops

            You’re awfully persistent for someone who claims he has no interest in me. It is almost as if you think you are correct and I am not.

          • Andres Desaya

            What I am interested in is that.. did you make a wise decision?..is Jesus Christ as “unfounded or founded”.
            Of course! If the Book I believe is founded and true, then Jesus Christ is the truth, then what I believe is right.

            The stake here is that…..Is your personal decision and claim that Jesus Christ is “unfounded” wise?

            Because this decision of yours is a crossroads…as I and many christians believe…choice of everlasting life or everlasting damnation.

            Again, God told His love in the cross, and Founded by Many. Are you sure this is “Unfounded” to You?

            You have until you are alive to make, change and convict yourself if you believe or not, to throw it away. Choose…decisions…decisions decisions.

            ***If you consider my advice…Don’t Be Caught Dead Without Jesus! He Saves!***

          • Andres Desaya

            If the blood in the cross is true as per the Book and I believed in it then automatically I am right. The Book’s integrity or truthfulness is not based whether we believe it or not.

            As far as I understand in our conversation, I embraced it because I believed it. And you threw it away because you did not believe it.

            Both of us did what God wants us to do…excercise our Free Will. Believe it or Not!

            We made our choices!

          • Maltnothops

            In the third paragraph, you’ve begged the question that you raised in the first paragraph. Your comment is logically invalid.

          • Andres Desaya

            **You seem to be just looking for argumentation here. It seems you did understand the points I made. Read again and look for what it really meant..**

            You don’t need to argue with the comments here since you already excercised your God given FREE WILL to choose.

            What You might need is argue with Yourself about your decision that the Book is unfounded… Was your decision very clear to you? or do you have doubts?

            In the Book it is Fact that God claims that He redeemed humanity using Blood Sacrifice in the cross, But in the same Book it is also Fact that NOT all humans believes and refuses to be redeemed…many, like PUD, here even mocks the story as fairy tale.

            Correct me if I am wrong but it looks like you are being bothered by something?

            Again, choose and pick the best answer..PUD, MADALYN, HITLER.. or JESUS Our Loving Savior?

            *(Maltnothops, may God bless you on following the right choices…)

          • Andres Desaya

            READ the content of each paragraph:

            The first paragraph is talking about the “truthfulness of the Book” is not based if we “believe it or not”.

            The third paragraph is pointing that “believe it or not”, God wants humans to excercise their Free Will, which we both did!

            Again, God does force Himself, that is why He gave us choices, (but warns of consequences) believe it or not!

            What do you believe? It is for you and me to individually decide,

            Whatever a person reasons…nonesense, shallow, unfounded, fairytale, psychotic….or concrete, clear, greatest love of all, amazing grace…

            Choose! choose! choose!
            I chose to believe.., and You Chose not to….Bye bye.

          • Andres Desaya

            What made you make a conclusion like that?

          • Andres Desaya

            I don’t have authority to sell something that is free. Your way of thinking to me is like…right in the wrong way, that’s why you look smart in a stupid way or vice versa!

            Be smart in the right way!

          • Maltnothops

            Nothing is free. There are always opportunity costs.

            If you want to believe you aren’t selling anything, that is your choice. Let’s call it “sharing”. I tried to help you improve your sharing technique. Your “sharing” technique is ineffective.

          • Andres Desaya

            Yes, of course, I see that what I write here is ineffective to you, even Jesus Christ (paid for it but) giving it for free or sharing everlasting life is Ineffective To You.

            In contrast to be effective and founded to 3 billion christians.

            That’s the difference between you, PUD, Madalyn, Hitler in comparison to us Christ followers, very obvious.

            God is not a tyrant, He gave us the will to choose but with a warning…

            **”I set you today, to choose life and blessings or death and evil..choose life and not death”.The Book and Jesus is calling**

            Founded and ineffective OR Unfounded and ineffective….to each his own to decide.

            Choose…choose..decide, decide…Valley of Decisions.

          • Maltnothops

            If you see that your “sharing” technique is ineffective, perhaps you should try something else. If you care. If you don’t, no worries.

            Hitler was a Christ follower. I don’t think that means anything in particular but you may as well be accurate. If you’re looking for an Evil Atheist to name drop, Stalin is a better choice.

            Maybe some day you’ll tell me what PUD is. I have no clue what that refers to.

            Speaking of choosing, I’m curious why you chose Jesus instead of Vishnu, the god of Peace.

          • Andres Desaya

            I don’t really know how you experienced christianity.

            (but we may have a little similarities in life as I was also a ministers son, my minister father died before I really discovered Christ as a person. Now, I understood what he understood and why he chose to believe and become a servant ofJesus Christ.

            If may say, I might be in your shoes in a similar way if Jesus did not show Himself to me as a friend and daily companion, that was 15 years ago. Goodness of heart and putting other people first is one of the keys in understanding who He is)

            I choose Jesus Christ because He is above all, He is the living God Himself, the Creator of everything….Vishnu is just an embodiment of Jesus Christ in the Hindu world.

            In the Boook of isaiah 9:6, one of His name is “the Prince of Peace…”

            **If you are willing to listen, I could be a friend and have many things to share…*

          • Andres Desaya

            Yes, I see that!, even the free Love of Jesus Christ portrayed in the cross is ineffective to you.

            And yes, also, I see that PUD & Madalyn O’Hair..seems to have effectivity in you.

            **Well, in the Book Jesus said “at the end there will be unbelievers and mockers…”**

          • Maltnothops

            Predicting that there will be unbelievers in any particular god isn’t much of a prophecy. That’s as daring as saying it will rain someday. Look at all the gods in which you are an unbeliever! At least we have that much in common.

          • Andres Desaya

            Yes, if you want to see it that way but that is NOT the Focus and end of the Story,..

            But rather that is only the beginning of a bigger picture..of choosing to believe… a choice of a dreaded or a wonderful ending…everlasting life or eternal damnation.

            We believers…chose to believe a wonderful perfect life for eternity offered through the blood sacrifice of God Himself. All we have to do is believe and accept.

            Same as PUD, Madalyn O’Hair and probably you…to Not Believe and Not to Accept.

            Valley of Decisions!! Be smart in making your choice…!!

            Jesus is waiting…the devil is waiting…!! Blessings or a curse!!

            Fairy tale or real…founded or unfounded! The choice is yours make alone….Decide!

            ***God will help you in your decision making if you allow Him and don’t harden your heart!

          • Andres Desaya

            No need to help me improve my proselytizing The issue here is either you accept it or you reject it. Choose, and choose wisely…no one is forcing you to believe.

            We present the Word of God the best way we can, you choose…

          • Andres Desaya

            Unfortunately!! your understanding is backwards. “woe unto them that call evil good, and evil good, darkness light and light darkness, bitter sweet and sweet bitter”, Book of Isaiah 5 :20.

            Try then reading PUD, Myles, and even your own.. Malnothops analogy…and these writings might bring you back to Christianity, and might open your mind grasping and understanding Christ. The Spirit may be with you…

          • Andres Desaya

            I would say it is your “inablity” to grasp the answer christianity has provided to billions of christians in this earth, not the inability of christianity to provide answers. You figure it the way around.

            Christianity is very deep and one has to be deep to understand it.

    • Monty

      “The Life of the soul is in the blood” Leviticus 17:11. “The soul that sins shall surely die”. Ezekiel 18:20. Lord Jesus took the place of the sinner, dying in my place and yours. His life was in His blood. We need more than forgiveness of sin. We need to live also as sin killed everyone of us. Jesus rose from the dead to give us new life. We need to repent and accept Jesus as Saviour and Lord. If you do not know these truths, you were never a Christian. Now is a good time to fix that!

      Your “vaccine” analogy works for religion. There is just enough truth along with the dead religiosity to immunise people to the real thing.

      • Maltnothops

        Of course I was Christian. I believed in Jesus as my Savior. I was baptized. I believed every jot and tittle of the Nicene Creed. Do you not know what it takes to be Christian?

        • Monty

          You don’t just “stop” being a Christian. If you are born again, you have a new nature that is of God. That new nature is eternal. I accepted all the facts as stated in the Nicene Creed – I still do. I was not, however saved. If you accepted Jesus as Saviour then you are well able to return to Him. Mental assent to a set of facts does not save you. Repentance and faith is the starting point. Have you seen that you are a sinner in need of a saviour? God only saves sinners. Did you ever ask God why Jesus had to die and rise again? He will answer you if you ask. It is the very heart of Christianity, and differentiates Christianity from any other religion, philosophy or belief system.

          • Maltnothops

            You appear more interested in preaching than addressing my question. No problem. I’m glad your faith works for you.

          • Monty

            I took your question to be rhetorical. For sure I preach the gospel. It is the power of God to bring bout salvation. I am not trying to score points, demonstrate my (limited) bible knowledge or improve my debating skills. My hope is that some will be convicted, repent, believe in Christ as Saviour and Lord and so inherit eternal life.

          • Maltnothops

            My question wasn’t rhetorical.

          • Monty

            OK, yes, I do know what it takes to be a Christian.

          • Maltnothops

            Oh,that wasn’t the question to which I referred. I meant my original question. The one about how Jesus’s death/resurrection works.

          • Monty

            It’s very simple. Consider it as a substitution. We, the sinners, are born spiritually dead, separated from God by our sin. The wages of sin are death. Sin is a debt that we owe God. Since we have nothing to pay with, we are unable to save ourselves. Jesus had no sin. He obeyed God perfectly in every way. He gave Himself up to death, the sinless for the sinful. God accepted the death of His Son as our death. Think of it as accounting. It does not matter who pays the bill as long as it is paid. Only one Person qualifies to pay the price and that is Lord Jesus. Now we are born dead, as we have said. So forgiveness is only one aspect of the problem. Jesus rose from the dead, leaving all the sin of all mankind in the grave. When He rose from the dead it was to give us new life, to replace the death that was lodged in us. When I got born again, I changed instantly and eternally. I became alive for the first time. The road of life gets bumpy sometimes, but I would not change places with another human being. I love God/Jesus with all my heart and I know that God/Jesus loves me. He loves you too. Will you accept His love or turn away? Your choice.

          • Maltnothops

            It was nice of you to try but you haven’t addressed the “how does it work” question. Your explanation is essentially “it works because god said it works.” Which is no explanation at all.

          • Monty

            Sometimes the Law is rigid, with mandatory fines for offences. If I was a judge and I had an offender in the court, I would be forced to hand down the fine, no matter what the circumstances. The offender may have no way of paying. However, suppose someone else pays the fine. In that case both justice and mercy are satisfied. That is something like what God and Jesus have done for us. I’m sorry if you don’t like the way God chooses to do things. What is your way of resolving the problem?

          • Maltnothops

            My way of solving the problem would be to incorporate a mechanism so it is clear how it works.

          • Monty

            Why? When my son was 18 months old, he was fascinated with light switches. He knew nothing about electricity generation, (I know a little) but he knew how to flick the switch. He could turn on the light just as easily as an electrical engineer. You really do not have to understand in order to benefit.

          • Maltnothops

            The absence of a reason renders God indistinguishable from fiction.

          • Monty

            Says who? Your lack of understanding is your problem, not God’s. If I refused to accept anything I don’t understand, I’d never leave the house.

          • Maltnothops

            I agree that it was my problem. And I’ve solved it. What’s your beef anyway?

          • Andres Desaya

            If you solved your problem, why are you still here acting like you did not? GO!….if ever or when you discover you did not, then come back to learn about HIM, Jesus Christ.

          • Maltnothops

            “If you solved your problem, why are you still here acting like you did not?”

            I solved my problem by ceasing to be Christian. I am not acting as if I am Christian.


            Is this your blog?

          • Andres Desaya

            Yes, Go! if you solved your probem by ceasing to be a believer or christian, why bother asking about blood sacrifice? There’s no use for you!

            Stay! if you are willing to learn and experience more about the Love and Blood Sacrifice of Our Lord Jesus Christ!
            If you are sincere for answers ask for Divine guidance……

            Again, warn yourself this is counter productive to you…?

            Jesus said, “Learn of me for I am meek and lowly….seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened”.

          • Andres Desaya

            This is a christian blog, not an unbeliever blog. We talk about how Great, how Good and a loving Saviour He is. This is where we worship, honor and learn from God.

            Choose… if you believe, stay. If you reject cause to you it is unfounded, then why stay and not Go! Freedom…God has given us freedom to choose..

            Welcome or goodbye? It is your choice..

          • Andres Desaya

            There’s tons of reasons made..the problem is you Do Not Accept they are reasons.

            For now, I suggest, go reason with yourself for now or another one who has more wisdom than what we believe as christians.

            God does not want to force you to believe his “hows, whys and reasons”..Bye!

          • Maltnothops

            “…the problem is you Do Not Accept they are reasons.”

            I reject them as unfounded.

          • Andres Desaya

            You asked for answers and you rejected because for you it is unfounded, I am not disputing that, that is why I asked you to talk to PUD, Myles, the ghost of Madalyn O’Hair…because to you they might have founded answers!

            Why be in a christian site knowing that what they know is unfounded to you?

            Mingle with atheist and atheist sites, Myles, PUD, Madalyn O’Hair, Hitler sites where they have your founded answers.

            If you reject the Love of Christ through his blood because it is unfounded to you…He can’t force it to you…he respects! your choice.

            *Prayerfully though as christian, through His Amazing Grace He will still receive you at the end of the rainbow…even if you might have rejected Him…and that is His kind of Love.*

          • Andres Desaya

            I am not disputing that to you it is unfounded, that is your own personal decison, that is why…..I suggested that you converse with PUD, Myles, Madalyn O’Hair, Hitler and the like instead. Get their emails, why stay here when we talk about unfounded stories to you. **With us believers, we talk about God because to us it is founded.

            You are free to Go…no one is forcing you to believe!

            Freedom of choice..remember we claim that God gave us freedom to choose…to believe…to honor and to love Him…or to reject Him or His existence! Bye bye…

            You have a lifetime to decide before you die..

            *But for me I’m sure God loves you! and me.

          • Maltnothops

            I am not disputing that to you it is unfounded, that is your own personal decison, that is why…..I suggested that you converse with PUD, Myles, Madalyn O’Hair, Hitler and the like instead. Get their emails, why stay here when we talk about unfounded stories to you. **With us believers, we talk about God because to us it is founded.“

            I’m not sure how something can be founded and unfounded simultaneously.

            I don’t know what PUD refers to. O’Hair is dead so I can’t converse with her. Hitler was Christian and didn’t have anything in common with O’Hair so far as I know.

          • Andres Desaya

            **Yes, you are right, there is only ONE answer, “Founded” or “Unfounded”, Truth or a Lie.**

            PUD is still alive and here, talk to him so that you will learn more about a sour believer, Madalyn O’Hair is dead but her legacy of atheism and beliefs is still everywhere.

            Hitler is a christian but you can learn about his violence and meanness…

            As to me, these people are opposite of “my founded” Christ character of love and sacrifice which unfortunately for you it is “unfounded”.

            So I suggest, you talk and study about PUD, Madalyn, Hitler… as it seems you might be in the same group, same color flocks together. Are you in the same color?

            If in doubt you are not in the same color with them…then consider looking again at the “blood sacrifice”, the Book talks about being the evidence of God’s Love to humanity.

            To me it is “Founded”. How about you? You claim it is “Unfounded” it is your personal choice, Do you think you chose wisely?

            If not, then choose wisely. This whole scenario, is it Truth or a Lie? **you were a christian before so ask the Holy Spirit to guide you”**

            Then CHOOSE!!!

          • Maltnothops

            I find it odd that you say agree with me about so much — and then contradict yourself in the next few sentences.

            Again, I don’t know what PUD refers to — other than a ”planned unit development” — but that doesn’t seem to fit the context. O’Hair and Hitler don’t seem to have anything in common — beside being dead — so I’m unclear what “group” or ‘color“ you think they belong to.

            Frankly, you don’t seem to make much sense.

          • Andres Desaya

            Read the context of what I write so that it will make sense to you! You appear to be a smart person who is acting like a silly person!

            Yes, they have things in common, PUD, Madalyn O’Hair and Hitler are all against Christ as…PUD in his writings here, unbelieving, his taunts of Jesus Christs.., as Madalyn O’Hair as in her writings, taunts, thoughts, convictions,…and Hitler in his violent actions.

            These are all characters the opposite Christ, His humility, love, peace and actions of sacrifce and offer of everlasting life…

            How about you? You seem convicted of your claim that Jesus Christ is unfounded…this makes you in the same group or color believe or not.

            Did you make a choice already? Choose and choose wisely…of your color and group.

            God gave us the freedom to choose. If you are not a convicted atheist, ask God to help you and guide you make your decision.

            WARNING: The passage below is derived from a Bible text and might be detrimental to you (as claimed by you) and as a former believer.

            “And when you seek me, you will find me, if you search me with all your heart”. Jeremiah 29:13

            Jesus is offering His story of Love written in the Bible, all you have to do is exert effort that it is founded.

            Choose Maltnothops… to believe or not to believe, to accept His Love or throw it away. CHOOSE!…it is up to you. Decide..your future might be at stake..life or death?

            Be wise on making your decision..

  • pud

    It doesn’t mean anything. It is absurd, disgusting, vile, irrational and it didn’t happen. Only gullible delusional non critical thinking hayseeds buy into this STORY.

    The notion of a deity requiring a ritual blood magic human sacrifice is absurd

    The idea that this invisible undetectable deity sent himself as a human sacrifice to himself as a loop hole for a “plan” he himself orchestrated is even more absurd.

    All you delusional christian cult misfits look at the Aztecs and Myans with disgust for doing the exact same thing you revere. Proof positive of how gullible and indoctrinated into a cult you really are.

    Further….You can’t even see what a misfit this STORY makes of your “god”….The all powerful, all knowing deity fucking around with his little puppets in a bizarre drama that in the scheme of things is entirely insignificant.

    IT IS A MAKE BELIEVE STORY JACK…..a fable with absolutely NO actual historical or scientific evidence to support even a lick of it. This makes you one of the most stupid primates bumbling around your little backwater of old farts and wheat farmers.

    • Andres Desaya

      PUD, continue the heavy burden of disproving christendom and hating Pastor Jack Wellman without compensation and experiencing misery and joblessness.

      Pastor Jack Wellman, continue the joy of proclaiming Jesus Christ’s love to humanity and be rewarded great in heaven and also enjoy the material blessings a salary brings.

      WHO do you think has a meaningful life, and who could be the LOSER between the two?

      PUD are you smart enough to know the correct answer? Everytime you face the mirror, you will see who the loser is….unless you change your ways.

      What a horrible life you are experiencing PUD! Shake it off, do something good for yourself. God will help you if you ask Him.

      **Thank You Lord for your sacrifice for humanity..**

      • pud


        • Andres Desaya

          And that is You!

      • Myles

        Which god can even wipe his own arse?

        • Andres Desaya

          Your god of evil influencing you, he wipes his arse with your face. How sad you allow him…

          • Myles

            Senseless again as his fairy tale declares there is only one god but don’t even look at the others.

          • Andres Desaya

            No very meaningful and senseful to us believers, we know exactly what we are doing.

            Mind you, it is senseless only to you..speak for self.

      • Jack Wellman

        Praying for Pud. I know she/he is hurting and needs our prayers. Only God can change her heart (Prov 21:1).

        • Andres Desaya

          Thanks Pastor for reminding.

          (but will he just quit! and try to shake it off!)

  • Rational Human

    If this is really the most important and impactful event in all of history, the event upon which the universe hangs in the balance…i would expect it to be the most self evident, self attesting, unarguable basic fact in all of existence. Like, more obvious and easily demonstrable than gravity. No need for stories written by ignorant superstitious nomads in dead languages. No need of theologians, preachers, or apologists to translate or interpret or spread the word.

    • Andres Desaya

      Yes, it is the “most important and impactful event in all of history” that is why it is mandated to be “preached unto all the ends of the world”, Yes! there is a need.
      Theologians, preachers, reverends, pastors are doing their job, they may not be perfect, but they are doing what is instructed.
      Currently, billions of humans are already informed and believed…(our friend here PUD is actually a former believer but got disappointed and turned sour because his expections of Christ for him was not met).
      Yes, the gospel still needs to be proclaimed and still being proclaimed. “Go preached unto all the end of the world”. Humble Pastor Jack Wellman is just one of the many “who are called to their purpose”.

      **Unfortunately, PUD here is also called to do otherwise by the enemy…Satan himself.

      PUD is an example of the seed that fell on the “stony sidewalk”. But it is not to late PUD to fall back on the fertilized soil like small Pastor Jack Wellman, or big Billy Graham…etc.
      What is important is doing something good which is preaching the Love and Word of God!, and experience the Joy of spreading it rather the misery of fighting it..* Choose bet. the two..

      • Rational Human

        You of course missed the point, why am I not surprised.

        Why does an all powerful god need to work through puny pissant humans to spread the word, leading to misunderstandings and abuse and splintered denominations through history? If that’s the best he could come up with, then it’s obvious this universe got stuck with the dumbest god east of the nebulae.

        • Andres Desaya

          No, you are dead wrong.

          Clergy men, Pastors, ministers or any people who are serving God are not “punny pissant humans”…they are not perfect, they have flaws, they make mistakes as any humans. But they are special people with special jobs.

          A lot of them are actually deserving servants of God, they are doing their purpose, to preach the Love of God through the gospel.

          *Your negative personal description of them does not have bearing to those who believe in the goodness of God and that they tell. Your negative description of them only is only relevant to you. Again you are looking at the eyes of the deliberately deceived PUD **

          • Myles

            Wilful ignorance keeps religion strong.

          • Andres Desaya

            How Incorrect and full of ignorance on your part! This is more accurate, willful ignorance keeps one weak, that is why you are weak.

            What a stupid analogy you are entertaining in your mind, think twice!

            This is wisdom (opposite of your ignorant concept)..Truth and Godliness makes one strong!

          • Myles

            Gods exist only in diseased minds.
            Accepting murderous fairy tales as reality indicates mental illness.

          • Andres Desaya

            No, believers has clear minds, you have a blurry eye if you see them as such…they are doctors, nurses, presidents of companies…all presidents of united states are believers, George Washington and Thomas Jefferson until this modern era.
            It may be you who has a diseased mind..look at it again. Who are you to those people of great credibility…Compare yourself to them!

          • Myles

            Any history book will deny your foolishness, but you already know that.

          • Andres Desaya

            You are incorrect again in your concept! Why are YOU always wrong! (I don’t believe your mother did not teach you not to be wrong always!)

            History books, history and current events is a live evidence..from 12 disciples to 3 billion christian believers…You do not know this information?

            Where are you getting your facts and datas. Look around in your environment…people are worshiping, praying, churches, temples are all over…

            Religious Charity Organizations helping people all over the world, helping the poor and homeless…makind a difference. These are Foolishness to you?

            I hope you are just spiritually blind, and not a blind man as a literally Blind man?

          • Myles


          • Andres Desaya

            Exactly! what Jesus said and predicted….. “You people…. will simply not believe”, Book of John 4:48. (Myles’ and PUDs exists!)

            Many will not believe, well predicted, including in this modern world, unbelievers even have SITES like you mention above, a proof of their existence.

            But also Jesus predicted “many will believe” John 8:30. From 12 to 3 billion people now believes.

            Jesus mentioned us, the kinds of Andres and Myles were predicted!
            Yes, He existed! and predicted a reality then and even now!

            Only God knows the future. Wow! Jesus is real knowing the future.

          • Andres Desaya

            If the prediction is real then the predictor must be real.

            And Jesus said, “you people…you will simply not believe”. Book of John 4:48

            Myles and the site you mentioned above is predicted.

            Jesus exists.. Jesus told the truth.

          • Andres Desaya

            You are wrong again! Why do you always take the wrong answer. This is the right answer,… Jesus died, arose and alive!

          • Myles

            Clear minds as in empty headed idiots.

          • Andres Desaya

            Your understanding is just the way around, you are dead wrong again, Clear Minds is full of wisdom and clarity, that is why they have important jobs.

            Empty headed idiots have blurry way of thinking. Do you not notice YOU are always incorrect in your concepts!
            You seem to demonstrate yourself here as the “empty headed idiot”.

  • Matthew 22:39

    To all Christians reading this thread be sure to check out the Far Eastern Broadcasting Corp site online and donate to the building of a radio station to deliver the Gospel to North Korea.

    North Korea is currently being run like a concentration camp by atheist dictator Kim Jong Un and many of the Christians and other North Koreans there are being forced to eat grass.

    Please help free the North Koreans from slavery by contributing to this Gospel project even if it is only $1.00.

    Evil and good are both cumulative and any contribution would be a serious blessing and contributuon to setting both persecuted Christians and North Koreans free.

    Christians are the most free people in the world in body, mind, soul and spirit thanks to Jesus Christ so let’s help make that freedom a reality for everyone.

    Have a blessed day to everyone reading and please do not forget to contribute to setting North Korea free by helping to build the radio station. When you do a good work, especially by contributing to one of such magnitude, then you honor both Jesus and God. Can I get an amen?

    • Rational Human

      A Christian radio broadcast into NK will not bring them one step closer to “freedom “.

      Maybe god wants his people to wipe out the heathen NK, ruled by an evil dictator, like he did with the Egyptian first born under paharoah? Or like those bad hombres the canaanites. I mean, it’s not like godly slaughter is without precedent

      • Matthew 22:39

        The Old Covenant is obsolete. Read the Book of Hebrews on it.

        • Rational Human

          Not one jot or tittle.

          • Matthew 22:39

            I am not sure why you want to argue the Bible without getting your heart right with God first.

            Hebrews 8:13
            New American Standard Bible
            When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

            There is no reason to argue with me. I may be one of the few Christians in the world that is ready to remind you that God loves you and that atheism is a mere label.

            Don’t let a mislabel from some human beings stop you from developing a relationship with God and developing the spiritual gifts He can supply you with.

            Return his love, acknowldege Jesus, repent THEN learn the scriptures. See Romans 10:9.

            Peace Be With You!

        • So you’re a Marcionite? Why not throw the OT in the rubbish bin? It’s obsolete, isn’t it? These bloodthirsty, very violent and ignorant savages who wrote the OT created god in their own likeness. So yes, the Old Covenant is obsolete.

          Now let’s look at the NT. Isn’t the Jihadi Jesus (the warrior god) of the book of Revelation just as violent as that character called Yahweh in the OT? So isn’t the book of Revelation obsolete?

          And what about those very violent parts of the rest of the NT that talk about a blood cult and god’s inability to forgive without the blood sacrifice of Jesus? Aren’t they based on that obsolete “Old Covenant”? So you may as well throw the rest of the NT in the rubbish bin. It’s full of violence or based on an OT full of violence. Maybe parts of the Sermon on the Mount and Sermon on the Plain are worth saving and some other of Jesus’ sayings that promote peace and well-being, but the bulk of the bible needs to be put in the rubbish bin.

  • Flint8ball

    Allegedly Jesus sacrificed himself to himself to satisfy his own “problem” with humans. Doesn’t make much sense. Not to mention that, the trinity aside, dying and returning to god status isn’t much of a sacrifice.

    • Matthew 22:39

      People are still following his example of public service and self sacrifice today.

      So apparently some people understand the symbolism behind his life, death and resurrection.

      • Flint8ball

        Yes, lessons are absolutely conveyed via fables, folklore, myths etc… and the Golden Rule is probably the most concise, obvious means of living a life others would find inspiring.

        • Monty

          The only problem with the Golden Rule is that people cannot obey it. Even the most noble individual is flawed in some way. We need a new nature that enables us to be the kind of person that we know that we should be. Only God, through Christ, can give us a new nature. That is what it means to be born again.

    • Matthew 22:39

      Not all people can understand ancient Greek or Hebrew or Aramaic but most can understand the significance behind a symbolic act.

      If you don’t get the symbolism you might need a tutor to explain it to you.

    • Susan Jane Elohim

      As humans who never experienced the Cross we can only guess at the incredible physical burden it was to carry a cross while in nearly hypovolemic shock from his beating with an iron tipped whip and the resultant blood loss. Not to mention the spiritual weight of the sins of the world on Christ on the cross itself which is inestimable to us in our human condition.

      I suggest you pick up a copy of Lee Strobel’s Case for Christ and read the interview with Metherell’s chapter for the medical assessment or read an article summarizing it.

      Jesus’ Crucifixion Described in Graphic Detail by Physician in Lee Strobel’s book, ‘The Case for Christ’

      • Flint8ball

        Ive read the case for christ. My christian wife bought it for me hoping it would convince me. ☺ ive also watched many of his lectures and debates. Nothing separates christian writings from other holy books and beliefs. One’s religion is largely based on where they are born and how they are raised. Those that come to religion at a later stage tend to be in duress or looking for hope- religion fills that space well. Woyld you be a christian if you were born in say, India? Why or why not?

        • Susan Jane Elohim

          That’s the kind of question that comes from not spending enough time in the scriptures. God could have determined where I was born and certain key circumstances before I was born.

          From Ephesians 4, Berean Study Bible

          11And it was He who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12to equip the saints for works of ministry, to build up the body of Christ, 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God, as we mature to the full measure of the stature of Christ.

          You have to study the Word a lot to start to be able to answer things from God’s perspective.

          People object a lot to God based on their own personal perspective but the reason a Christian reads the Bible is to see things from God’s.

          It’s hard to tell how much God has pre planned and intervenes with exactitude and how much Satan and his angels do.

          But certain key things are declared to happen in the Bible to show that God Himself makes choices.

          The Bible is not a perspective of randomness.

          Every hair of your head is numbered by God so that alone should tell you that He is keenly interested in you.

          • Flint8ball

            I see u dont like to answer questions. Just keep it in mind for a rainy day.

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            I answered your question. It was hypothetical and called for me to speculate on something that has never happened to me.

            That is a typical criticism that unbelievers make but why would your assumption control my life or destiny?

            If you read the Bible it seems like God foreknows everyone. So I believe He placed me in the family I was born into and/or predetermined who I would be by genetics and/or other factors before I was born.

            DNA is a code and very precise. Francis Collins, the head Of the NIH and former head of the human genome project called DNA the language of God.

          • Flint8ball

            I think i’m hearing that you would believe in the religion u were born into or exposed to. Thats understandable.

            Why do you (not the bible) think your god places some children in a geographical location where they are set up for christian success, while placing other children in less advantageous locales where they will likey go without the Word?

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            God controlled my circumstances but just like a lot of other people I have exposure to other religions. Other religions are all over the place. I even lived in a non-Christian foreign country at one time before I officially converted late in life but that never influenced me.

            I believe I was chosen to be a Christian before I was born. Most Christians don’t seem to claim that but I do because my beliefs seem more firm on that point.

            We live in a world where Christianity is engaged in over emphasizing human free will at the expense of the more important doctrine called the sovereignty of God. Calvinism did not articulate the sovereignty of God as accurately as it should have and Arminianism gets things backwards by over emphasizing free will and making human’s responsible for too much when the scriptures are quite clear. Conviction comes from the Holy Spirit and faith is the gift of God. So if those two are true then clearly God singled me out. My free will wasn’t as controlling as some people mistakenly assume.

            Jesus gave the Great Commission to be performed until he returns. I am not sure why some people got the Gospel earlier than others. It could be because certain of the apostles delivered the Gospel in more hostile regions and were slain before sowing the Word as broadly as Peter, Paul and Barnabas did in the West. In which case the lack of success in spreading the Gospel in certain parts of the world would be due to human free will and error. If you are an Indian and several generations ago they killed the Apostle Thomas there then aren’t your forbears responsible for the mistake?

            Paul was sent into the region he was supposed to go by God. The Book of Acts say so.

            Also the devils angels are located in certain regions. I haven’t studied their placement extensively but there could be angelic interference in the delivery of the Gospel.

            Read Galatians 1. Paul says the Gospel was given by Jesus Christ. Not to accept other gospels from angels. But that’s exactly what happened with Islam and Mormonism.

            Joseph Smith claimed to receive revelation from the angel Moroni.

            Muhammad was meditating in a cave when an angel he claims was Gabriel showed up.

            “For even Satan disguises himself as an angel.” (2 Corinthians 11:14a)

            Some that have studied it say Muhammad’s Gabriel did not match the Gabriel of the Bible.

            There is a pastor online who has looked into it more than me and he said even Muhammad thought he’d been possessed by demons.

            One of the 99 names for Allah in the Qu’ran is The Destroyer but that is not one of God’s names in the Bible. IIRC The Destroyer is an angel’s name not God’s.

            I hope this helps. If you want to compare religions seek out an apologetics site for more specific comparisons to help resolve any confusion you may have.

            Comparing the life of Jesus with Muhammad and Buddha may clarify more for you.

        • Susan Jane Elohim

          Oh and uh the Bible is different from every book on the planet. It’s historically accurate to an astonishing degree and still consulted by historians on ancient history.

          It took over 1500 years to write and managed to keep thematic integrity over that time period in spite of the number of human writers God inspired to write down the scriptures for Him.

          We also have prophecy authenticating it but unfortunately you have to be a believer to understand prophecy. So I never share it with unbelievers any more.

          Also it’s the only multilevel book ever written. Wiki PaRDeS on it.

        • Monty

          “Nothing separates christian writings from other holy books and beliefs.” That is simply not true. No religion is anything but a set of rules to follow and a higher being that to the followers is “God”. The Bible reveals the God who saves humanity from their worst enemy – themselves. We are not saved by following the rulebook and trying to appease an angry god. God sent His only Son to die in our place. Accepting what Jesus did for us requires nothing but repentance and trust.

        • Flint8ball

          I misspoke. I’ve watched many of Lee Stroebel’s lectures, but not debates. As far as I’ve found, he doesn’t debate. I was thinking of Frank Turek participating in debates, which is commendable and appreciated.

    • Andres Desaya

      You have good points..but I would say, “the experience of becoming human and suffer” (although not permanently)..to Him it still counted as sacrifice.

  • Myles

    If there was any truth in this fairy tale, you might actually get to meet a zombie that can walk on water.

    • Andres Desaya

      And the Zombie I met is you grasping for air underwater in the future.

      • Myles

        Senseless comment from ……………..

        • Andres Desaya

          Believe it or not, you are the Zombie to me. Make sure you don’t smoke because this will really make sense to me.

  • Eileen

    Thank you, Pastor Jack! And a blessed Resurrection Sunday to you. He is risen, indeed!!!

    • Jack Wellman

      Amen. Thank you Eileen.

  • Susan Jane Elohim

    Resurrecting/Live/Elevation Worship

  • Christiane Smith

    Pastor Jack,
    Thank you for your service to prison inmates. That is a work of mercy that stands honored in the Holy Gospel of St. Matthew to visit those in prison. May God bless your efforts to help them.

    • Jack Wellman

      Nothing is all I could do without Him (John 15:5), and the last time I checked, nothing is not a little something. Thank you for the encouragement though.

      • Susan Jane Elohim

        Thanks for writing on this blog, Pastor. I know you came to tell the truth as you understand it not to argue.

        I am glad you block all the trolls who came to argue.

        And old astute uncle of mine told me once it takes 2 to argue and if arguing started he would just disappear so as not to be involved in it.

        Why do obstinate unbelievers argue against Christians when they say God is unknowable? There could only be two reasons. Either they want to deconvert you or they are testing you. So if a mind is made up why argue? Do you need to validate your ego by proving something at someone else’s expense?

        Now if they are testing you that is a sign that they really don’t know and in spite of the label atheist their mind is not made up.

        The insecure like to test the secure. It doesn’t seem to occur to them that they have no right to try and shake another person or subject them to their own mindless aggravation….they are insecure so they will have to shake the secure person’s tree and see if it will stand or get uprooted.

        I know all this because I have spoken to more than 400 atheists and none of them ever shook me one bit. None ever came close to uprooting my belief in Jesus either so for me he exists and that is an unshakeable fact.

        Why don’t people let facts like that register instead of playing sly trolling games on the internet?

        I am a contrarian and a freethinker and all these unbelievers ever did was confirm to me that God exists because their actions substantiate God’s account.

        Thanks for playing atheists but from my side you lose.

        Why you thought man made explanations were more truthful than God’s to rule Him out….I can only know some what….perhaps, you are playing a mind game with yourself so you can be irresponsible and procratinate….but just realize nobody controls everything except God. Sooner or later everybody’s time runs out.

        Thanks again for blocking the trolls, Pastor. It helped clarify things for me. Why allow people that you are trying to help take personal shots at you (ad hominem). At some point good judgment intervenes and you stop giving attention to precocious individuals who just want to throw tantrums and score ego points that only succeed in keeping them in the dark.

        If you really want to KNOW. Seek like God says to do. Do not argue. Seeking and obeying God is the most direct route to spiritual enlightenment.

        Arguments are just used to derail people.

        Blessings on you, Pastor and everyone reading!

        • Jack Wellman

          Rom 1:18-22 shows that they have no excuse, so pray for them, since we too were like they are now. We are not better than unbelievers…only better off (John 3:16).

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            Amen! He who is without sin can cast the first stone.

            I would say that disqualifies everyone but God from judging people.

            Blessings on you, Pastor!

        • Aren’t you an ultra-Fundamentalist troll? You write Fundamentalist nonsense on a public blog and expect no-one to question you. Why? Because you are so insecure in your beliefs!

        • Isn’t it you that wants to score ego points for your already inflated ego? You have an exaggerated opinion of yourself and your abilities.

        • A free thinker? You’re far from that. All you do is trumpet a book that was written by violent and ignorant savages.