What The Bible Says About Caring For Animals

What The Bible Says About Caring For Animals May 17, 2019

If you love animals, I hope you’ll read what God thinks about animals and the care they should receive.

Laws for Animal Care

“In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth” (Gen 1:1), but later, “God created the great sea creatures and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good” (Gen 1:21). Since what God created was declared good, we should treat God’s creation in a good way, including the fact that we should “Know well the condition of your flocks, and give attention to your herds” (Prov 27:23). Scripture says a lot about loving God and loving our neighbor as ourselves, but we’re also commanded to show loving care to God’s creatures, and especially those who are under our care. Scripture declares that “Whoever is righteous has regard for the life of his beast, but the mercy of the wicked is cruel” (Prov 12:10). The Old Testament laws provided for humane care for animals. Laws like, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it is treading out the grain” (Deut 25:4), and “You shall not see your brother’s ox or his sheep going astray and ignore them. You shall take them back to your brother” (Duet 22:1). God even provided a Sabbath rest for man and animal, as it says in Exodus 23:12, “Six days you shall do your work, but on the seventh day you shall rest; that your ox and your donkey may have rest, and the son of your servant woman, and the alien, may be refreshed.” After being criticized for healing someone on the Sabbath, Jesus referred to the Old Testament laws that showed mercy and compassion toward animals, even on the Sabbath, so why not mankind as well. Jesus “said to them, Which of you, having a son or an ox that has fallen into a well on a Sabbath day, will not immediately pull him out” (Luke 14:5)? Probably none of them could answer that honestly.

God’s Compassion

God is concerned even with the minutest of creatures in nature. Deuteronomy 22:6-7 says that “If you come across a bird’s nest in any tree or on the ground, with young ones or eggs and the mother sitting on the young or on the eggs, you shall not take the mother with the young. You shall let the mother go, but the young you may take for yourself, that it may go well with you, and that you may live long.” The humane care of animals is so important that God commands, “If you see the donkey of one who hates you lying down under its burden, you shall refrain from leaving him with it; you shall rescue it with him” (Ex 23:5). It doesn’t matter if it’s your enemy or not…you cannot treat an animal cruelly, regardless of who owns it. The creatures of the earth are under our stewardship since the Scriptures say that “every beast of the forest is mine, the cattle on a thousand hills. I know all the birds of the hills, and all that moves in the field is mine. “If I were hungry, I would not tell you, for the world and its fullness are mine” (Psalm 50:10-12). The point is when God commands, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain” (Duet 25:4; 1 Tim 5:18), He shows His care and compassion for His creatures and He expects us to show the same kind of care, just as my wife shows stay cats wh0’ve been abandoned.

God Provides

Clearly, God cares for His creatures, both great and small. Jesus said, “Consider the ravens: they neither sow nor reap, they have neither storehouse nor barn, and yet God feeds them. Of how much more value are you than the birds” (Luke 12:24). Of course, God values us more since we’re created in the image of God (Gen 1:26-27), but this doesn’t mean He neglects the tiniest of creatures, like sparrows. The psalmist writes, “He gives to the beasts their food, and to the young ravens that cry” (Psalm 147:9). Not even a tine sparrow “will fall to the ground apart from your Father” (Matt 10:29b) knowing it. Jesus may have looked upward at the sky while He said, “Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they” (Matt 6:26)? Over and over again, we see God’s concern for His creation. We read that “The eyes of all look to you, and you give them their food in due season. You open your hand; you satisfy the desire of every living thing” (Psalm 145:15-16), and when “The young lions roar for their prey, seeking their food from God” (Psalm 104:21), He provides for them, and God causes “the grass to grow for the livestock and plants for man to cultivate, that he may bring forth food from the earth” (Psalm 104:14).

Change in Nature

Someday, perhaps soon, the nature of the creation will be changed. Not only will there be no more tears, sorrow, pain, or death (Rev 21:4), but even the nature of animals will be changed. Isaiah 65:25 prophesied that “The wolf and the lamb shall graze together; the lion shall eat straw like the ox, and dust shall be the serpent’s food. They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain,” says the Lord.” In the coming kingdom, “The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together; and a little child shall lead them. The cow and the bear shall graze; their young shall lie down together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. The nursing child shall play over the hole of the cobra, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder’s den. They shall not hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea” (Isaiah 11:6-9).


God does not miss anything, like “five sparrows sold for two pennies? And not one of them is forgotten before God” (Luke 12:6). If God keeps an account of even the sparrows, you know He doesn’t miss how we treat our animals. The way we treat animals reveals a lot about us, and it is undoubtedly true that “Whoever is righteous has regard for the life of his beast, but the mercy of the wicked is cruel” (Prov 12:10).

Article by Jack Wellman

Jack Wellman is a Pastor and Prison Minister in the State of Kansas. Jack is also a writer at Christian Quotes and Senior Writer at What Christians Want To Know whose mission is to equip, encourage, and energize Christians and to address questions about the believer’s daily walk with God and the Bible. You can follow Jack on Google Plus or check out his book Teaching Children the Gospel available on Amazon.

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  • pud

    Who cares what the buybull says about anything? Why should anyone care in the least what no name primitive barbaric religious lunatics said about anything thousands of years ago?

    The “buybull” is a STORY written by MEN. A fictional make believe story by and for gullible credulous ignorant people who are incapable of independent critical thought.

    Your STORY BOOK “god” killed every living thing in your FICTIONAL “flood”….that’s how much “he” cares about animals

    Your STORY BOOK “god” loved the smell of sacrificial animals BBQ’d by stupid superstitious savages

    Your STORY BOOK “god” watches non stop violence, death and suffering inflicted by men against animals, animals against animals and nature against animals. The world isn’t Disney Land janitor jack and your “god” watches passively all of the violence and death every minute of every day. Gee, I wonder why? I’m sure you can FABRICATE some apologetic right jack?

    “Whoever is righteous has regard for the life of his beast, but the mercy of the wicked is cruel” Therefore your invisible undetectable make believe “god” is CRUEL and unrighteous! …..can you do this simple arithmetic janitor jack?

    How can you be so selective, so irrational, so stupid for so long? You think like a child if you can actually think at all.

    • Susan Jane Elohim

      The people that think like children are the people saving the children of Haiti from malnutirition, disease, earthquake, hurricane, poverty, and lack of family, water, sanitation, education and clothing, etc.

      Watch the video of a great Christian mission in action. They gave these kids their lives back.

      Scroll down and meet Bobby and Sherri Burnette

      Then maybe you want to research into Covenant House. That group goes out into the street to find homeless and abused kids and take them in.

      • pud

        Has nothing to do with this article you raging lunatic. Explain all the death and cruelty towards animals as written in your book by your “god”…..nothing else…explain and stay on topic nut case

        • Susan Jane Elohim

          You’re not on topic.

          Goodbye. God bless.

        • Susan Jane Elohim

          You have an evil mind and keep projecting your evil speculations onto God. May God forgive your sinful, evil, blind soul.

          Prove God didn’t take the missing animals to heaven. Does the text say the other animals died or did you just assume it.

          I have a very dear Christian friend who loves animals more than people. She grew up in an abusive home and had a terribly hard life with many other complications.

          But for several years she owned a horse farm that eventually went broke because she got so attached to the horses that she refused to sell them and couldn’t trust the horses to anyone else. Eventually she lost the farm after a horse broke her foot by stepping on it.

          Now she is cat crazy and keeps adopting her neighbors cats’ babies so they won’t end up euthanized in the Animal Shelter. At the rate she is going she could end up broke again and might not be able to move to a new apartment with so many animals.

          pud you stop casting false negative speculations on God. God can resurrect everyone even the animals. I don’t even want to talk to you any more.

          Do you assume the worst about everyone like this all the time.

          If I thought like you do I wouldn’t even think atheists are conversion eligible but I did and do. But there’s no reason anyone should have to put up with non-stop negativity and people tearing them down. It’s toxic and abusive behavior.

          So you had better let God make a new person out of you asap or you could end up ostracized and abandoned to evil company.

          Stop thinking the worst about God all the time. God makes all things new.

          Beautiful Things

        • Susan Jane Elohim

          Read this and stop being a kill joy. My goodness, what is really bothering you?


          Stop interpreting everything too literally and learn Bible symbolism.

          Some people can interpret poetry and some people can’t.

          The Bible is the same and some people like you cannot interpret it. So get a good education on it from people with actual faith. You never received faith so your understanding of God and His perspective is strictly limited.

          That means you need a new attitude and to change your ways. I hope you repent.

          Evidence is not the issue. We have lots of evidence.

          The problem is your heart. It has grown callus’d and stony so ask God to break your stony heart and open your heart eyes so you can see.

          All this hard heartedness is affecting your interpretive ability.

          I hope this helps. You should have went to a private Christian counselor.

          Do you really want to get corrected and analyzed on a message board. The scriptures tell you what is wrong with you so stop being obtuse.

          Get your heart right with God and don’t try to teach them again until you do. Your false teaching is making you look bad because your heart problem causes you to misinterpret things.

          You start appealing to God. In humility. Or you will keep this hard heart thing going which is terrible for you.

          May the Lord be with you!

          • pud

            Are the dozens of verses I cited from your stupid book or not? Yes or No?

            Did your stupid invisible make believe “god” say them? Yes or No?

            Does it show your made up deity to be cruel, wicked and evil in the treatment of animals? Yes or No?

            Answer these 3 questions only or STFU…you babbling stupid totally fucked in the head lunatic psychotic.

          • pud

            You have exactly NO evidence for any “god” whatsoever. None. Only make believe and pretend.

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            If we don’t have evidence then why does Francis Collins call DNA the language of God.

            You have a serious heart problem that affects your spiritual comprehension.

            We call it spiritual blindness.

            I am not answering your interrogations. I am trying to spiritually coach you into the right meditative state so you can receive your faith.

            You argue one more time and I am done trying to coach you.

            Learn this song. Sing it a lot until understanding dawns and you receive your faith.

            God can send the Holy Spirit to convict you if you appeal to Him in the right manner.

            I am not reading arguments. I am coaching you. If you decline the coaching then we stop right now.

          • pud

            LOL…go block me for the 59th time you raging mental case

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            That’s a decline then. I turn you over to God now then and stop trying to correct your bad attitude.

            You can appeal to Him directly.

            Learn this song and sing it regularly until your mental fog lifts on spiritual topics.

            I am going into the real world and might start a faith healing clinic.

            Start singing and learn how to take direction from God or you stay in the dark, isolated, ostracized, socially unpopular and unliked.

            You were blessed that God sent me. Did anyone else display the patience with your arrogance that I did?

            Wellman turned you over to God immediately without working with you because you declared you are a hardcase.

            Well not too hard a nut for God to crack.

            So learn the appropriate approach to Him song.

            Open the Eyes of My Heart Lord, Paul Baloche

            You can appeal to God personally. You’ve been explained to enough times how things work in the spiritual realm. Starting with repentance.

            So it’s all up to God and you now.

            See if you can make Him listen and grant you the great mercy of faith.

            All you did was insult and persecute Him through His corporate body the church but great is His mercy as all Christians well know.

            Here is the song. Throw yourself on His mercy. I am done here.

            Open the Eyes of My Heart Lord

            Sing it round the clock if possible til some of your hardness of heart dislodges and you start to see the truth.

            May the Lord be with you!

  • Jack Wellman

    All I can respond to such trolls (Pud, etc.) is Matt 7:6. I will not waste my time.

    • pud

      A troll huh? Did your “god” say this? Yes or No?

      Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Sam 15:1‑3)

      So does this show your “gods” love of animals? Yes or No?

      You won’t respond because you are a coward and liar. You cherry pick what’s needed to promote your cult agenda and purposefully IGNORE the very same book you draw upon when it PROVES you WRONG!

    • pud

      You mean “swine” like the kind gentle jesus meek and mild killed?

    • Susan Jane Elohim

      Bad company corrupts good character. Thank God we have Jesus to hang onto.

    • Susan Jane Elohim

      I hope you do a bible study on abortion, Pastor regarding the care of the young life of human beings.

      Look at this letter I received from Focus on the Family with the info on Option Ultrasound. Maybe more will contribute to saving babies.

      Hi Susan,

      I’m humbled and overwhelmed by how God is using His people to soften hearts and help moms choose life for their babies through our Option Ultrasound program.

      If you’re not familiar, Option Ultrasound is a 100% donor-funded program that equips pregnancy resource centers with ultrasound machines, nurses’ sonography training, and other important resources. Together, we are providing high-abortion communities with 3D/4D ultrasound machines to help mothers considering abortion see their preborn children even more clearly and choose life.

      Remarkably, more than 54 percent of abortion-minded women who have counseling and an ultrasound choose life.

      One of the things I enjoy most is hearing from moms that benefit from the program. These stories remind me not only of the work that God has called us to do, but of the thousands of individuals, like you, who make it all possible.

      Tesonia was going through a difficult season of life, dealing with her father’s terminal illness. His death came during the early weeks of her pregnancy, and she describes her feelings as “sad” … sad to lose a father that she was very close to, sad to face a pregnancy that was unplanned, and sad to think about having a child that would never know this man she had dearly loved and lost. She was facing the pressure of feeling inadequate to even take care of herself, much less a baby. She felt a sense of anger as a result of her loss. She felt utterly alone. She had not told her boyfriend about her pregnancy. When she came to the pregnancy resource center, she was trying to decide how and when to tell him. During her first ultrasound, she “met” her 9-week-old baby on the screen and gasped, “This is a miracle!” From that moment on, her decision was to carry the baby to term.

      Susan, this kind of decision for life is only possible because of friends like you. It is through your support of Focus on the Family that women facing unplanned pregnancies are experiencing God’s grace and hope.

      Thank you for being such a vital part of our ministry. It’s encouraging to know that there are so many caring, God-fearing people who believe in the sanctity of life.

      I appreciate you, Susan.

      May God bless and strengthen you today,

      Jim Daly

      Focus on the Family
      8605 Explorer Dr., Colorado Springs, CO 80920
      1-800-A-FAMILY (232-6459)

      • Maltnothops

        I hope you sent them hundreds of dollars.

        • Susan Jane Elohim

          I wish I had sent them that much but there are multiple pro-life organizations fighting to end abortion and exposing Planned Parenthood and it’s hard to try and support them all. Some of the organizations are trying to pass new laws, one infilitrated Planned Parenthood, one is on college campuses (called Students for Life), one is called Concerned Women for America and there are others like the 40 Days To Life organization that holds prayer vigils to end abortion, etc.

          So many you cannot keep them all straight.

          • Maltnothops

            I donate $50 a month to Planned Parenthood to help end abortion.

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            That’s excellent. There’s a video showing fetuses are alive. Some people want to assume the fetus is just an inanimate clump of cells but how could it grow if it didn’t contain life?

            That 54 percent number isn’t good enough. The only consolation in the whole mess is that perhaps those people refusing to have children are the selfish people that would not make good parents.

            A woman may have the right to her own body but doesn’t that right end at someone else’s personhood.

            Well people are interpersonal boundary violators and like to dominate and control others and take things way too far. They moved boundary stones in the Old Testament and they still like to do that today as well as gossip, slander and character assassinate.

            I don’t try to argue with people on the Gospel too much any more. You just deliver it. How can you control another person’s response to the truth.

            Some people don’t like the truth like pathological liars. It would kill them to tell the truth. I think I met one of these pathological liars once. Briilliant young man. But he said something one day so revealing about his willingness to cheat other people that I realized he was not a Christian and his whole internal value system was corrupt. But that is how some people get ahead in life. By cheating others. I also know an old cheat who’s quite the people pleaser. He knows how to make himself quite agreeable. But he’s selfish. He told me a long story about himself once where he admitted that he learned to cheat on a test to beat an eye exam. He did not have 20/20 vision but was determined to become a professional pilot. So he stole the test and managed to memorize it and beat the physical test for years. It didn’t even seem to occur to him that he was putting other people at risk by getting his way.

            Pay attention to what people are doing and saying while they themselves haven’t obeyed God. Quite revealing that.

            Everyone else is the problem. They’re always right and that gives them the right to dominate and control you. But you have your own mind to reason with don’t you?

            Why does someone who’s mind you can’t read get to dominate and control your’s.

            Be an independent thinker and learn to compare and contrast things.

            I have the right to do what is right for my own soul without anyone else’s interference don’t I?

            And the only Person not biased in this world and capable of being totally impartial in His judgments is God. Whatever letters someone has before or after his name.

          • Maltnothops

            “That’s excellent.“

            Thank you. Perhaps you’d like to donate to PP as well to help end abortion.

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            $50 a month to kill babies. That’s terrible. What if you helped kill Bach or Einstein.

          • Maltnothops

            What if you saved Stalin or Hitler?

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            That’s not my problem.

            Everyone belongs to God. They will face the judgment some day for murdering people.

            “My people perish for lack of knowledge.”

            God builds judgment and wisdom in His people.

            I forget the exact number of assassination attempts on Hitler that failed. I read 33 then 42 in another place.

            If Hitler was the devil then only God can take him out.

            The Auschwitz Jews used to call Josef Mengele the Angel of Death.

            It’s better to have a fear of God than a fear of man.

            God can make something out of you and send all the help you need.

            Read Deut. 28. Blessings for obedience. Curses for disobedience. On God’s people.

            The rest already live a cursed existence under the devil. He’s called the god of this world and the prince of the power of the air.

            Jesus translates you into the kingdom of God.

            Yes, there is going to be a reckoning some day and best to have Jesus advocate for you. The devil has no standing in God. He crawls on his belly like a serpent.

            Jesus died to give you the right to be born again.

            Think about it. I doubt I will be back. Too many atheists play bait and switch. Ask a reasonable question then turn nasty on the next round. I know because I’ve talked mainly to anti theists online. They say they are atheists but they aren’t. It almost always turns nasty like they are anti theist and they try to control people. Like pud trying to deprogram people without their permission.

            Be an independent thinker/seeker. Ask God for discernment then take all your questions to God then take His answers and compare them with the world’s.

            His answers are always better, more accurate and encouraging than anything the world is serving up.

            Hope this helps. I am on to another detail in this life. This 16 years on the internet I learned a lot about just how nasty this world can be. But some people take a page out of God’s book and try to bring good out of evil.

            Look at the Love A Child mission in Haiti. That’s an amazing long term act of compassion.

            Love is something you do.

          • Maltnothops

            If everyone belongs to your god, then your god can take care of the Bachs and the Einsteins without my help. Why the double standard?

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            Pro life allows everyone a chance to be born.

            After that everyone has the right to be born again if they can come to understand exactly what that means.

            Why would anyone want to play God over life and death without getting his own life and house in order first?

            How many of those people who were helped to get an abortion were told it could affect their future ability to reproduce?

            “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.”

            It is impossible to always ask the right question or always know the right answer. Many answers and results depend on something else.

            That’s why you have to learn to trust God. There is no way anybody can control everything. That is why Christians depend on Him.

          • Maltnothops

            Pro choice allows everyone to choose if they want to have a child.

            If you want to end abortion — as I do — there is only one way: Eliminate unwanted pregnancies.

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            No. You can teach God’s morals to children early. If they have the fruit of the spirit of self control then they control their own behavior and outside people don’t have to control things or meddle with them.

          • Maltnothops

            So you aren’t interested in making abortion less common? You presented as someone who cared about it. I guess you just strike to complain.

          • You seem to be saying that the foetus is a child and therefore abortion is morally wrong. Why did Yahweh command the slaughter of the Amalekites, which command included not only killing combatants, but also non-combatants including defenceless women, little children, babies and animals? Included in his command was to kill all the women, some of whom would have been pregnant. Doesn’t this make Yahweh out to be an abortionist?

            And what about the story of the Great Flood. Weren’t pregnant women drowned? Doesn’t this make God the greatest abortionist of all time?

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            Sorry done with reading troll anti theists.

            And done with online discussions.

            It’s better to work with people in person where you can identify the genuine people who take getting their hearts right with God seriously and don’t consult tainted sources to reinforce their personal rebellion to God.

            Back on block.

          • So what you are saying to me is that you cannot answer the questions put to you. In other words, your bible is useless in providing answers. You need to get your heart right with “God”. Stop reading “tainted sources to reinforce (your) personal rebellion against God”, the abortionist.

          • Maltnothops

            I wonder if you are one of those people who think Christians always opposed abortion, always thought that life began at conception, and think abortion is some recent liberal invention.

            “In 1968, Christianity Today published a special issue on contraception and abortion, encapsulating the consensus among evangelical thinkers at the time. In the leading article, professor Bruce Waltke, of the famously conservative Dallas Theological Seminary, explained the Bible plainly teaches that life begins at birth:

            “God does not regard the fetus as a soul, no matter how far gestation has progressed. The Law plainly exacts: ‘If a man kills any human life he will be put to death’ (Lev. 24:17). But according to Exodus 21:22–24, the destruction of the fetus is not a capital offense… Clearly, then, in contrast to the mother, the fetus is not reckoned as a soul.”

            The magazine Christian Life agreed, insisting, “The Bible definitely pinpoints a difference in the value of a fetus and an adult.” And the Southern Baptist Convention passed a 1971 resolution affirming abortion should be legal not only to protect the life of the mother, but to protect her emotional health as well.”

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            I already answered.

            God owns everything on the Earth and all the people by right of creation.

            The soul is in the blood.

            Leviticus 17:11
            English Standard Version
            For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life.

            Have a nice day. I am not doing a long drawn out debate on abortion.

            You can research the Bible on it for your answers but there’s no way around God’s ownership rights.

            He created everything on Earth and therefore has ownership rights to everything on Earth.

          • Maltnothops

            None of your comment has anything to do with what I wrote.

            Hey, if your god owns everything, then he is responsible for abortions. They happen on his property and he doesn’t do anything about it.

          • Maltnothops

            “I am not doing a long drawn out debate on abortion.”

            Why would we debate that? You’re on my side. What’s to debate?

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            Planned Parenthood’s new president Dr. Leana Wen’s statement after PP laid low on it’s abortion business for 12 years.

            She changed PP strategies and came out militantly pro-abortion and said:

            “Our core mission,” she tweeted, “is providing, protecting, and expanding access to abortion and reproductive health care. We will never back down from that fight,” she vowed. “It’s a fundamental human right, and women’s lives are at stake.”

            She must not be a Christian and cares nothing for the baby’s right to life.

            Just because someone has not made it’s way out of utero doesn’t mean they are not alive.

            She favors the sinners over the innocent.

            Here are some stats on it:
            Planned Parenthood is Pro-Abortion, Not Pro-Choice

            I am going to stop and put a block up here in case you are anti theist.

            I limit all my dialogs with people who are obstinately against God now. That way I don’t waste my time. There are a lot of people who like God who need the info I give them.

            Why waste it and the time on people determined to trash it.

            People are responsible for getting their own hearts right with God.

            No theist owes a sinner an argument and no theist has burden of proof.

            On block now.

            God Bless!

          • Maltnothops

            I’m not anti-theist so you can rest easy. I don’t maintain that Zeus or Yahweh or Jhol don’t exist. I’m a humble atheist.

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            Well since you are a genuine atheist and not an anti theist I will take you off block.

            More importantly I wanted to suggest that you switch your $50 a month contribution to Focus on the Family. It’s a better investment at stopping abortion than Planned Parenthood is because PP tacitly encourages sex out of wedlock where there isn’t a strong enough support system to raise kids.

            $600 a year means you helped the good Lord save ten babies lives a year because Focus on the Family estimates it takes $60 to save a baby from abortion.

            Now that will really be storing some treasure in heaven with the good Lord Jesus. Saving ten lives for him and those all innocent babies.

            What a great spiritual success that would be.

          • Maltnothops

            If the number of unwanted pregnancies was reduced to zero, how many non-medically necessary abortions would there be? I’m guessing something close to zero. As you’ve pointed out, PP is committed to providing reproductive services. In case you don’t know, that mostly means contraceptives and education. Which means rendering abortions unnecessary. Wouldn’t that be nice?

            I hope you understand that making abortion illegal doesn’t mean getting rid of abortion. It is estimated that about 25% of pregnancies in pre-Roe American were terminated via illicit abortions. About 200,000 women died annually from abortion in pre-Roe America. Wouldn’t you rather have almost no abortions and almost no women’s deaths from illicit abortion?

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            The best thing I can tell you is ask for faith. God will give it to you when you ask but you will have to maintain it as if your new spirit was a new baby.

            Tend to it by feeding it the Word of God and listen to the Word every chance you get. Ask for discernment then take all your questions to God in the Bible. Be patient. It takes time to mature and grow in a knowledge of God and don’t trade opinions with people who don’t know God. At least not for a while. You will need to let your spirit grow to full grown maturity.

            Read the Parable of the Sower.

            People are careless and do not know to protect their hearts from the world and bad counsel so you be careful.

            You may be more concerned about women than most men are but just never thought about it from God’s perspective. It can be hard to imagine a baby before he is born.

            Have a blessed day and make sure you know the full armor of God passage in the Book of Ephesians.

          • Maltnothops

            If Mary had aborted the embryo or the fetus that eventually became (as some people believe) Jesus, would he still have been the Messiah?

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            That’s speculation. Christians don’t speculate usually. We try not to add to the Word.

            See what this arguing has done.

            It is causing you to make up things.

          • Maltnothops

            Don’t you know what ‘if” means?

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            If you study people everyone seems to have his personal charity.

            I have several I like. Even though some are a lot better run than others. It could be the better run ones have either more experience, better management or less start up troubles so I usually look at the purpose when donating. Though Charity Navigator tells you some things like which charities share your name with others and which don’t.

            DaySpring Int’l is a good charity. For ten cents a person can see a movie on the life of Christ in India. Many of those people are converted and report personal miracles.

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            That’s God laying those babies on the altar of your heart.

            Some people have erected idols to themselves on their hearts and don’t do good deeds like that.

            The Gentiles were called dogs by the disobedient Jews but dogs are the most loving and loyal. God teaches His dogs obedience.

            The world will try to corrupt your heart, thoughts and emotions til you cease to be obedient and return God’s love but the more obedient ones they know it’s better to be a divine love junkie than to let the world feed them it’s junk. That’s the kind of discernment that comes with mature divine love.

            Don’t trust the world.

            Trust God and He will supply all your needs including increasing your level of obedience so Satan will have to flee. Satan can’t stay in a sanctified, obedient Christian can he?

            Of course, he will try to return sometimes and stir up trouble with temptation but an obedient Christian can usually say no and you can get better and better at saying no to evil as the Holy Spirit continues to build godly willpower in you.

            There are many good charities in this world and some companies have donated medical supplies but still need help in shipping the items to Third World countries.

            When you make a donation to the charities they come back with a thank you receipt and some of them ask for your prayer requests.

            American Leprosy Missions, Food For The Hungry, the Mercy Ships, Doctors without Borders are some of them just to name a few.

          • Maltnothops

            “That’s God laying those babies on the altar of your heart.”

            Huh? That makes no sense. Why is God stealing babies?

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            Why are you allowing PP to mislead people so their babies are stolen?

          • Maltnothops

            It is flattering that you think I’m as powerful as your god is said to be. Thank you.

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            I thought you were pro-life. My mistake for reading too fast.

            Leaving the blog now.

            I haven’t got anything in common with people who think it’s ok to dismember live babies in utero then sell them like car parts.

            They use the euphemism “fetus” so you will deny the baby’s right to it’s life being respected as any person’s would.

            A baby is not the chattel of the mother. Half the DNA’s is the father’s.

            All people belong to God by right of creation.

            People used to know that but the people that know that for a fact are few and far between in this and the last few generations.

            I hope you see the light.

            The good news is Jesus will be here soon. He has to be if this world is so stupidly evil that it thinks it can get away with selling babies like car parts to the highest bidder.

          • Maltnothops

            I imagine you are deeply opposed to the Georgia and Alabama “heartbeat” bills since they imply that embryos aren’t even babies the first 6 weeks.

          • Maltnothops

            Fetus: An unborn offspring, from the embryo stage (the end of the eighth week after conception, when the major structures have formed) until birth.

            That’s the medical definition. It isn’t a euphemism. It is the word that adults use when they aren’t trying to make arguments based on emotion.

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            Planned Parenthood wikiquote:

            Planned Parenthood Federation of America, Inc. (PPFA),is the largest single provider of reproductive health services, including abortion, in the U.S.

            People are suppose to be emotional about their children. They are suppose to be attached to them. In fact, dependent children fare best when they receive love and affection from their parents.

            This is real life. This isn’t some crass philosophical argument that calls for learned scientific detachment.

            This is about children.

            Only a callous person attempts to take emotions and human life and devalue them so in the heat of confusion people don’t know right from wrong.

            Pro-choice is erratic. Overly emotional defending their own insensitivity towards babies.

            Don’t tell me I am overly emotional when someone conned you into not caring about babies.

            The Pro-choice movement wants to manipulate public opinion by marginalizing a newborn dependent baby’s life by switching to a technical medical term.

            Ask any pregnant mother what she is carrying. She won’t say a fetus. She will say a baby.

          • Myles

            If you are “pro-life” as you claim then you should back sex-education courses for every student and parent from Pre-K up. Abstinence and ignorance only lead to death. Knowledge protects. If children know how to avoid pregnancies, the rates of abortions will drop like a rock. Paedophiles will have fewer victims. Fewer gay children will kill themselves. Fewer STD’s will be permitted as well.
            To top it all, misogynists will lose all interest in controlling women and will think more about their own health. Win,win, I venture.

          • Myles

            Ignorance and acceptance of lies from pro-life is all right?

          • “Satan can’t stay in a sanctified, obedient Christian can he?”

            Well he seems to be doing quite well in you. As a deranged, deluded writer of nonsense you are evidence that Satan is alive, if he exists. Of course, he doesn’t exist but you are still deluded and deranged. Come out of your make-believe, fantasy world and live in the real world.

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            I misread you. Sorry. I thought you said you were prolife.

            Planned Parenthood has been exposed.

            I’m evangelical because God is love and pro-life.

          • Maltnothops

            I’m pro-choice and I’d like for there to be no abortions. That’s why I donate to Planned Parenthoid. PP has prevented more abortions than any organization I know of.

          • Myles

            Your god told people how much easier it was to murder unborn children by ripping open their mother’s bellies. It also praised slaves that obeyed their masters.

          • So your God is “love and pro-life”. If this is true, then Yahweh cannot be your God because he commanded the slaughter of the Amalekite children and babies and all the defenceless women (which included the pregnant ones). Nor can Jesus be your God because Jihadi Jesus is going to slaughter people (including pregnant women) during the so-called “great Tribulation” where rivers of blood will flow.

      • Jack Wellman

        Amen. Rock Solid Christian group that has saved many lives. What the Bible says about life supports life: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/christiancrier/2014/04/21/what-does-the-bible-say-about-abortion-a-christian-study/

        • pud

          No it isn’t…it’s a deranged political indoctrination center spreading lies and falsehoods just like you do.

        • Myles

          Rock solid christian group that gained a listing on the S.P.L.C. hate list. They have a lot of innocent blood on their hands. Now they are trying to export their hate to other countries.
          Are you wilfully ignorant ?

        • Susan Jane Elohim

          Pastor, did you know the Pro-Choice lobby made a false case for abortion in someone else’s name without their consent. When the lady became aware of the false companion case filed by her attorney for the Pro-Choice lobby she filed a motion to let the Supreme Court know she wasn’t aware that she had filed a case but the Supreme Court declined to hear her.

          This was a very important companion case to Roe v. Wade.

          Mary Doe who was really Sandra Cano never actually wanted, sought or received an abortion. A small group of pro-abortion lawyers in Georgia looking for a plaintiff just used her under an alias when she approached them on another family issue. They told her they were working on another equal rights case and needed a woman plaintiff although she had told them she was most definitely pro-life so she wasn’t consenting to be an abortion case plaintiff.

          Cano was shocked later when she found out what the lawyers had done in using her without her consent and they tried to stop her from unsealing the identity of Mary Doe.

          Because the case was filed under false pretenses Cano tried to get it overturned but was unable to.

          A Short Legal Analysis of Doe v. Bolton here:

        • Susan Jane Elohim

          Dear Pastor,

          I am trying to put together a prayer network for my friend Dan who has been misled into deism by Thomas Paine.. While I assemble a scriptural correction for him could you pray and have your church pray that Dan receives divine revelation from God on the scriptures. He has been struggling for quite some time because he doesn’t seem to consult the right sources and get good counsel on things. Please pray a blanket prayer for him on everything and ask God to lift this spirit of confusion that the world has brought against him.

          Thanks for your help. I just reached out for some prayer help from some other believers in Christ because Dan needs all the help he can get and time is particularly short in his case.

          God bless!

    • Susan Jane Elohim

      You ought to give pud your testimony about how God favored you, Pastor.

      Give him some evidence that he cannot deny because that’s your life’s testimony and now you use it and your life to honor God.

      I know you posted your testimony. I wonder why pud et al neglected to read it and understand that God changed you and worked in your life because you actually returned God’s personal love for you then showed him respect by trusting and obeying Him and His wise counsel.

      That is bound to produce spiritual success but you’re not suppose to brag about it because actually God did it all but you can testify.

      Too bad these mocking atheists never bothered to locate your public testimony before attempting to assasinate your character. You are God’s servant and these wicked people wouldn’t show God or you respect. They just let sin control them and keep them blind.

      But I know God favored you because He favored me.

      God Favored Me

      So give God the glory and all thanks and praise for doing that. It personally changes things for a person when God changes them.

      But how would a sinner who refused to get to know God know all that.

      So what gives them the right to control a believer when their disbelief makes them continue in disobedient ignorance.

      Everyone has the ability to seek to know unless they let that ability get compromised or taken away from them.

      • JudeG.

        Please don’t respond to trolls/swine/scum. Response or reference to anything they post, spurs them on, they will continue as long as you give them any attention either negative or positive. They are a waste of your time.

        • Susan Jane Elohim

          Exactly. Thanks for the reminder.

          Why argue religion. I have no burden of proof to carry.

          We’re Christians and the mature ones only tell the Gospel, praise God and pick up crosses.

          You cannot give people your own experiential knowledge through arguing.

          They have to enter the experience themselves and seek to know God to really know anything that a Christian knows.

          We’re a peculiar people and treasure of God.

          God doesn’t really want the world tearing and rending His treasure cf. Matt. 7:6.

          Have a blessed day!

          Beacon, Jimi Cravity

    • Myles

      Arguing against truth is a waste of time?

      • Andres Desaya

        (Pastor correct me if I am wrong) but what Pastor Wellman means is with ‘trolls like PUD whose motive is just to literally troll is not worth giving a time. A verse like Matthew 7:6 is good enough to answer his long hatred to Pastor and to God.

        Now, Myles, you mean arguing with US BELUEVERS is not wasting your time? Truthfully yours! This is a believers site…we don’t come to argue with you, you come to argue with us.

        Why don’t you trolls like You, PUD, Maltnothops and etc. create your own unbelievers site…I can guarantee no one of US BELIEVERS here will come to your site and waste our time to argue with you.

        Get the difference! In other words, simple…go away trolls! Go to sites of the likes of Madalyn O’hair. We are not looking to argue with you here in this site. Just GO!!

        The main motive of this site is to share and strengthen our faiths and not to argue with Trolls and unbelievers like you! Bye bye now!

        *** If you choose to…go look for Madalyn O’hair and Evil..***

      • Andres Desaya

        Myles you interpretation is wrong again. Pastor Wellman is right..he does not waste time arguing with PUD, a FOOL and “A LIE” a jobless Troll.

        Myles, it seems PUD the jobless troll, the FOOL and the LIE is your IDOL..

  • pud

    “god” really cares eh jack?

    How many animals did God drown in the flood? How many were sacrificed to him just so he could smell the sweet savor of their burning flesh?

    Not even God knows that. He lost count long ago.

    So I’ll just list the times that God killed or commanded others to kill animals. (I wonder how many of these passages are marked green in the world’s most dishonest book: The Green Bible*.)

    Abel’s offering: The first God-approved animal sacrifice
    And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering. (Genesis 4:4)
    The flood of Noah: God kills every animal except those in the ark (because “The earth was filled with violence.”)
    And all flesh died that moved upon the earth … All in whose nostrils was the breath of life … they were destroyed from the earth. (Genesis 7:21-23)
    After God drowns all the animals except for those in the ark, Noah killed and sacrificed to God one of every surviving “clean” animal species. “And the Lord smelled a sweet savour.” (This shows God’s concern for endangered species.)
    And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar. And the LORD smelled a sweet savour. (Genesis 8:20-21)
    God has Abram kill some animals for him: A cow, goat, ram, dove, and pigeon.
    Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon. And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst. (Genesis 15:9)
    God told Abraham to kill his son, but at the last moment, he changed his mind and told Abe to kill a ram for him instead.
    Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. (Genesis 22:10-13)
    To impress the Pharaoh, God turns the Nile into blood, killing all the fish. (It didn’t work. The magicians of Egypt knew this trick, too.)
    And the fish that is in the river shall die, and the river shall stink; and the Egyptians shall lothe to drink of the water of the river … And the fish that was in the river died. (Exodus 7:18-21)
    God kills all the cattle, horses, asses, camels, oxen, and sheep in Egypt.
    the hand of the LORD is upon thy cattle which is in the field, upon the horses, upon the asses, upon the camels, upon the oxen, and upon the sheep: there shall be a very grievous murrain … And the LORD did that thing on the morrow, and all the cattle of Egypt died. (Exodus 9:3-6)
    God kills the (already dead) beasts of Egypt by smashing them with hail.
    And the hail smote throughout all the land of Egypt all that was in the field, both man and beast. (Exodus 9:25)
    God kills all the firstborn (twice-dead) Egyptian cattle. (I don’t know how God figured out which were firstborn, but, hey, that’s why he’s God, right?)
    at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle. (Exodus 12:29)
    God drowns more than 600 horses.
    And he took six hundred chosen chariots, and all the chariots of Egypt … For the horse of Pharaoh went in with his chariots and with his horsemen into the sea, and the LORD brought again the waters of the sea upon them. (Exodus 14:7; 15:1, 19)
    “And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people.”
    [Moses] offered burnt offerings, and sacrificed peace offerings of oxen unto the LORD. And Moses took half of the blood, and put it in basons; and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar … And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people. (Exodus 24:5)
    Moses kills a bullock for God
    Aaron and his sons laid their hands upon the head of the bullock for the sin offering. And he slew it; and Moses took the blood, and put it upon the horns of the altar round about with his finger. (Leviticus 8:14-15)
    Aaron kills a ram “and Moses sprinkled the blood upon the altar round about.”
    Aaron and his sons laid their hands upon the head of the ram. And he killed it; and Moses sprinkled the blood upon the altar round about. And he cut the ram into pieces; and Moses burnt the head, and the pieces, and the fat. (Leviticus 8:18-21)
    Aaron kills another ram and “Moses took of the blood of it, and put it upon the tip of Aaron’s right ear, and upon the thumb of his right hand, and upon the great toe of his right foot.”
    Aaron and his sons laid their hands upon the head of the ram. And he slew it,; and Moses took of the blood of it, and put it upon the tip of Aaron’s right ear, and upon the thumb of his right hand, and upon the great toe of his right foot. And he brought Aaron’s sons, and Moses put of the blood upon the tip of their right ear, and upon the thumbs of their right hands, and upon the great toes of their right feet: and Moses sprinkled the blood upon the altar round about. (Leviticus 8:22-24)
    Aaron kills a calf for a sin offering “and he dipped his finger in the blood.”
    Aaron … slew the calf of the sin offering … And the sons of Aaron brought the blood unto him: and he dipped his finger in the blood, and put it upon the horns of the altar, and poured out the blood at the bottom of the altar: (Leviticus 9:8-9)
    Aaron kills the burnt offering “and Aaron’s sons presented unto him the blood, which he sprinkled round about upon the altar.”
    And he slew the burnt offering; and Aaron’s sons presented unto him the blood, which he sprinkled round about upon the altar. (Leviticus 9:12-14)
    Aaron kills a bullock for a wave offering. “And the breasts and the right shoulder Aaron waved for a wave offering before the LORD.”
    He slew also the bullock and the ram for a sacrifice of peace offerings, which was for the people: and Aaron’s sons presented unto him the blood, which he sprinkled upon the altar round about … And the breasts and the right shoulder Aaron waved for a wave offering before the LORD; as Moses commanded. (Leviticus 9:18-21)
    Killing more animals to satisfy a blood-thirsty god.
    He shall bring two turtles, or two young pigeons, to the priest … and the priest shall offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering. (Numbers 6:10-20)
    When Moses set up the tabernacle, each of the twelve tribes kills a bullock, lamb, ram, and a kid, two oxen, and five rams, goats, and lambs for God, for a grand total of 240 animal sacrifices. (Numbers 7:15-88)
    The Levites shall lay their hands upon the heads of the bullocks: and thou shalt offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering.” (Numbers 8:8-12)
    God commands Joshua to kill every animal in Jericho (because they are “accursed” to the Lord.)
    And the city shall be accursed, even it, and all that are therein, to the LORD. … And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword. (Joshua 6:17-21)
    God tells the Israelites to stone and burn to death Achan’s animals (along with Achan and his family, of course).
    And Joshua, and all Israel with him, took Achan … and his sons, and his daughters, and his oxen, and his asses, and his sheep … And Joshua said, Why hast thou troubled us? the LORD shall trouble thee this day. And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones. (Joshua 7:24-25)
    More burned offerings to the Lord.
    As Moses the servant of the LORD commanded … they offered thereon burnt offerings unto the LORD, and sacrificed peace offerings. (Joshua 8:31)
    The spitit of the Lord came on Samson (and he killed a lion).
    Then went Samson down … and, behold, a young lion roared against him. And the Spirit of the LORD came mightily upon him, and he rent him as he would have rent a kid. (Judges14:5-8)
    The Spirit of God comes on Saul (and he hacks a yoke of oxen to death and sends the pieces throughout Israel).
    And the Spirit of God came upon Saul … And he took a yoke of oxen, and hewed them in pieces, and sent them throughout all the coasts of Israel by the hands of messengers.(1 Samuel 11:6-7)
    God was angry at Saul for not killing all the Amalekite animals. Saul killed all the people (except Agag), but he kept some of their animals. Because he didn’t kill everything, God repented of choosing him for king. (So he made David king instead. David liked to kill things.)
    Thus saith the LORD of hosts … Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. … And Saul smote the Amalekites … Andand utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword … But Saul and the people spared Agag, and the best of the sheep, and of the oxen, and of the fatlings, and the lambs … but every thing that was vile and refuse, that they destroyed utterly. … Then came the word of the LORD unto Samuel, saying, It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. (1 Samuel 15:2-19)
    When dedicating the temple, Solomon killed so many animals that it was impossible to number them. (Not even God knows how many animals were killed.)
    King Solomon, and all the congregation of Israel, that were assembled unto him, were with him before the ark, sacrificing sheep and oxen, that could not be told nor numbered for multitude.(1 Kings 8:5)
    Just kidding — God knows. It was 22,000 oxen and 120,000 sheep.
    And Solomon offered a sacrifice of peace offerings, which he offered unto the LORD, two and twenty thousand oxen, and an hundred and twenty thousand sheep. (1 Kings 8:63, 2 Chronicles 7:5)
    To make God happy, the Israelites killed 700 oxen and 7,000 sheep (and all the non-believers).
    And they offered unto the LORD the same time, of the spoil which they had brought, seven hundred oxen and seven thousand sheep. … That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.(2 Chronicles 15:11-13)
    Seven bullocks, seven rams, seven lambs, and seven he-goats were killed, and their blood sprinkled around. Then the carcasses were burned and they sang “the song of the Lord.”
    And they brought seven bullocks, and seven rams, and seven lambs, and seven he goats, for a sin offering … So they killed the bullocks, and the priests received the blood, and sprinkled it on the altar: likewise, when they had killed the rams, they sprinkled the blood upon the altar: they killed also the lambs, and they sprinkled the blood upon the altar. And they brought forth the he goats for the sin offering … And the priests killed them, and they made reconciliation with their blood upon the altar, to make an atonement for all Israel: for the king commanded that the burnt offering and the sin offering should be made for all Israel. … And when the burnt offering began, the song of the LORD began.(2 Chronicles 29:21-27)
    God and Satan not only killed Job’s 10 children, they also killed his servants (I need to revise their kill numbers!) and burned to death his sheep.
    While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them (Job 1:16)
    Jesus drowns a herd of devil-possessed pigs.
    And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs … And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? … And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding. So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine. And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters. (Matthew 8:28-32)
    Jesus drowns 2000 pigs, after driving them out of a possessed man. (Notice that the other story says there were 2 men. So I guess Jesus must have done this nasty trick twice — or maybe the stories were just made up.)
    And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit … And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? … And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine … And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea. (Mark 5:2-13)
    * I went back to the library to check on this. It turns out that 5 of the passages on the list are marked green in the Green Bible. Here they are, along with their comment for each.
    Green Bible: “The stability of creation”
    (God drowned his creation and Noah sacrificed some of the few animals that survived; this shows how much God values the stability of his creation?)

    And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar. And the LORD smelled a sweet savour. (Genesis 8:20-21)
    Green Bible: “Polluted river was a plague of Egypt.”
    (Yes, but who sent the plague? This should be marked red, not green.)

    And the fish that is in the river shall die, and the river shall stink; and the Egyptians shall lothe to drink of the water of the river … And the fish that was in the river died. (Exodus 7:18-21)
    Green Bible: “The fifth plague: livestock diseased”
    (God killed all the horses, asses, camels, oxen, and sheep. What excuse could there be for marking this green?)

    the hand of the LORD is upon thy cattle which is in the field, upon the horses, upon the asses, upon the camels, upon the oxen, and upon the sheep: there shall be a very grievous murrain … And the LORD did that thing on the morrow, and all the cattle of Egypt died. (Exodus 9:3-6)
    Green Bible: “The seventh plague: thunder and lightening”
    (God smashes animals and people with hail. This shows his concern for the environment?)

    And the hail smote throughout all the land of Egypt all that was in the field, both man and beast. (Exodus 9:25)
    Green Bible: “Jesus sends demons into a herd of swine.”
    (Yes he did. Kind of nasty, don’t you think? I guess it was marked green because it had pigs and water in it.)

    And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs … And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? … And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding. So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine. And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters. (Matthew 8:28-32)

    • pud

      Even gentle jesus meek and mild murdered animals….What say ye jack? Why can’t you admit how insane and fraudulent you are?

    • pud

      Is this all in the bible jack? Is it? Is this the word of “god”? Yes or No? Answer the question

    • Susan Jane Elohim

      Since you don’t have the Holy Spirit to help you understand scripture would you stop acting like a false teacher on this blog. Take your grudge elsewhere and go see a psychiatrist.

      What Really Happened In The Garden Of Eden?

      Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. Gen. 1:29 (God gave ALL the plants and trees for food. So we will see that the “tree” of knowledge and “tree” of life are not literal trees, but Satan and Jesus. The tree of knowledge can’t be a literal tree because God already said ALL the trees were given to them for food.)

      You don’t know symbology and I am not teaching it to you. This is not the place to learn the whole Bible and you don’t know it so why don’t you stop acting out on here?

      Just admit you do not have the gift of faith, understand nothing about religion and get on with your life.

      You don’t want to learn. You just want to tear down what you don’t know when you should have gotten a bible teacher to tutor you away from this blog.

      • pud

        Ok…explain all the above and how it shows “gods” great love of animals…

        • Susan Jane Elohim

          I wasn’t answering your post. I am showing you that there are problems with your overly literal interpretation.

          You do not have faith yet. You are going to need the help of people who do have it to fill in the gaps in your understanding until faith arises.

          That is why you need to ask God for love, faith and humility.

          What if you had an early childhood trauma on top of an insecure infant attachment and developed a personality disorder then developed a hyper critical skeptical attitude on top of it. Then you would be so naturally biased that it would become almost impossible for you to assess evidence that does not agree with your foregone conclusion.

          You cannot control the things in your past but you may try to attempt to control them by burying them but they don’t stay buried in your psyche. Instead they keep you upset and rebelling.

          So trust God enough to ask Him if you can turn these hidden childhood issues over to Him. Let Him handle these unresolved issues bothering you. He is waiting to help you.

          If you receive the whole new attitude then you will be receptive enough to be able to receive your faith. Then you will actually start to progress in your biblical and spiritual understanding.

          God is in control. Humans never control all circumstances. We can’t even count on insurance to be there and not deny a claim. So we need faith so He can pull us through in situations that we cannot control. For example, death. We need Him to resurrect us. No amount of planning on our part can do that. So we just trust that He will based on what He has told us and what the world saw Jesus do. The Apostles are the faithful witnesses that recorded their witness for future generations.

          Only some type of insecure fears make people want to distrust God but those fears should be gone. They are purely imaginary. But the devil likes to use vain imaginations and fear to turn you away from seeing God’s perspective.

          You start to meditate on it pud. Slowly and deliberatively and you’ll see God is your friend and the devil is aggravating your spiritual blindness to keep you separated from Him in the dark.

          Don’t worry. When you’re ready to trust God is waiting for you to give you faith.

          Don’t worry about the devil. God can stomp the devil for you any time He wants.

          Have a great day.

          • pud

            Explain all the animal death and cruelty as written in your book. You can’t can you which is why you babble nonsense all the time.

          • Susan Jane Elohim

            Matthew 7:6.

    • Andres Desaya

      PUD pls. go look for a job..

      But before you go…clarify yourself..do you believe God does not exist or God exist but He is not a good God? or whatever He is you just hate Him or are you hating God because He failed to satisfy you or just because you hate Pastor Wellman you hate God too?

      Answer these questions to yourself honestly, and God might help you look for a job!

  • pud

    There were 5 mass extinction events in the history of the planet jack….5 times where nearly ALL life was wiped out. In fact jack 99.99% of ALL species that ever lived are extinct…..why jack why….would your “god” allow comets, asteroids, volcanic eruptions etc to destroy nearly everything seeing how much he cares about animals? Think of the suffering and death your deity allowed long before humans were ever around…think of the total waste of life….tell me jack….explain this in light of your latest ridiculous infantile essay….waiting…waiting….

  • Maltnothops

    Has the author ever killed a mosquito?

    • pud

      Everything on this planet kills something either willfully or unintentionally but no one killed as many living things as the make believe “god” of the bible. Something delusional cult members like jack conveniently omit when they quote their BOOK of mythology and ignorance

    • Susan Jane Elohim

      Here’s a recorded miracle. Look at the Spirit overflowing from Donnie McClurkin when he starts to bust out in tongues. He has to stop himself though so he can deliver the praise song in English for the people who came to worship God.

      Great Is Your Mercy

      McClurkin shows the tongues spiritual gift again in his Stand song with Marvin Winans.

      The Holy Spirit is still fully operational in some people but other people don’t understand it. There’s been too much cessasionism taught in some churches. It probably goes back to the pope trying to lord it over everyone but God can still give the Spirit to whomever He wills with or without the pope’s permission. The popes don’t boss God around though in the Dark Ages a few of them acted like they controlled Him.

      The Holy Spirit cured McClurkin of leukemia and homosexuality. Read his wiki bio on it. That’s his testimony and you and I and nobody else can erase or over rule his testimony though a lot of people try to deny it. That’s his life with God experience. If you’re so ignorant that you can’t tell a genuine witness apart from a fake one then that is your problem. Ask God for the discernment.

      Google Prayer and Healing School at Faith Life Church in Tampa for all the healing verses.

      Everyone needs to experience healing and restoration in his own life and don’t let the sacrilegious know it alls stop you from discovering the truth and getting your own personal revelation.

      The Restoration of All Things

      Where does it say in the Bible that God stopped creating? It doesn’t He’s recreating and restoring His people to new life all around the world even as we speak.

      If people would slow down, shut up and listen and be still and get their hearts right with God then they might find out for themselves.

      Paul got up in the Spirit and preached. Preachers still do that today. McClurkin is doing it in the video singing God’s praises and that is a witnessable phenomena. I don’t care what a scientist without the spirit tells you or some unbelieving atheist who refused to get his heart right with God.

      You can turn on the tv. Locate the good preachers and the bad ones and tune in to the one telling God’s truth if you know the Bible and have God given discernment.

      Have a great day!

      • Maltnothops

        Have the author ever killed a mosquito?

        • Andres Desaya

          You are a good tandem and partner with your great friend…jobless PUD; same thoughts with him, you are in one with him, congratulations!

      • Myles

        Mental illness requires treatment; victims of scams even more so.

        • Susan Jane Elohim

          Sorry back on block for being a troll anti theist.

          I don’t read anti theists who refuse to get their hearts right with God and act like they think they are gods themselves dismissing Him.

          I correct them for God. I don’t associate with them. Not after the insanity that I have seen some of these anti theists spout.

          It’s your responsibility to get your heart right with God. Not mine.

          So. I hope you repent, reject all the evil insane counsel you are listening to and start seeking God.

          Otherwise that relationship a good Christian has with God you never attain and really have no business commenting on since you are not in the know.

          If you were an ignorant virgin and some person came back and said they’d had sex and it was great what comment could you make except maybe “I will find out some day.”. You wouldn’t have the experience to make an authoritative comment.

          Same with Christianity. You don’t know. You don’t even believe but consulted all the worst people on it.

          That’s a sinner. An evil person with no relationship with God because his sin keeps him from attaining it.

          Best to seek Jesus and stop being weak willed and be done with sin.

          Back on block now. I don’t exchange thoughts of a religious nature with diehard sinners.

          I am an evangelist. I counsel sinners for God and keep my garments clean enough to do that by staying exclusively dedicated and consecrated to him.

          Don’t ever make the mistake of thinking you can turn someone with indestructible faith into you.

          Look at William Lane Craig. Quite the gentleman he is and no high minded rebellion loving philosophical atheist has turned him into a turncoat yet.

          Some Christians are a lot smarter and strong minded than atheists. That comes from the Spirit and knowing they have standing in God.

          So they can study things in this life without any fear at all.

          Why be afraid if the Holy Spirit has your back.

          God beat Goliath with one boy. He beat the Midianites with 300 men and he beat you with a sick old lady.

          So I hope you come to your senses and be done with the liars of this world.

          • Myles

            So your god is so powerful it needs the mentally ill to intercede so insults and truth never burden its ears.It has ears?I have already found over one million gods. Every time something disturbed man, he created a god to intercede for him. When science pointed out what exactly was the problem, that god was no longer needed. The garbage heap came next. Yours will be the next.
            For your information, sin is an imaginary disease, requiring an imaginary cure. Some religious creep will sell it to you, if you have enough money.
            Nothing about religion is moral or ethical or even basically honest. Leeches, like William Lane Craig, are in it for the money. Which death-cult is padding your pockets?
            Check out godchecker.com Perhaps you could find a god that is more intune with your manias.

        • Andres Desaya

          It is obvious that you are implying believers have mental illness, take note that all american presidents have great faith and majority if not all of all senators, and a lot of medical doctors are firm believers…a lot of them are successful businessman, many are philantrophist, many believers are poor but they have good hearts…

          My question to you is…where are you if you compare them to yourself..answer my question honestly to yourself quietly and honestly.

          Where do you belong in the community? if all these people who are doing positive and worthwhile has mental illness to you…where are you if you level yourself to them?

          I hope you are above and beyond all of these people to to describe them as mentally ill.

          Can you tell me who you are? What do you do? Are you a psychiatrist, a professor in university, a doctor, an engineer, a scientist? You seem to have a nice description of yourself if all of these people are mentally ill…

    • Susan Jane Elohim

      Remember this. Everyone has a witness. A life testimony. Whether good or bad whether believer or unbeliever.

      Why throw out all the good believers’ testimomies and God’s testimony? But that’s what the perverse spirit makes some atheists do. Though some atheists are just extraordinarily weak willed and refuse to listen to reason and let Jesus break the sinful cycle of weakness in them. Or spiritually unobsevant.

      Every person is a role model. Some good role models with good life stories. Some bad role models with bad life stories. Some who went from good to bad and some who went from bad to good.

      So pick the witnesses you focus on carefully. Because we tend to emulate the people we esteem or hold in high regard. Jesus provided the best role model so the disciples pattern themselves on him.

      Those that were too weak to learn to focus on God’s lessons scream and shout down the people who do manage to learn from God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

      Change isn’t always immediate. Change can be gradual. Up or down though some people seem to stay static.

      Really why throw out the testimony of Jesus’ life and all the other good Christian role models. There is some really great weakness and irrational fears behind that and certain people with the greatest fears and irrationalities are too narcissistic to submit to good counseling. Most narcissists won’t go to counseling. Their egos are too fragile to admit they are wrong though some are just too proud. They fail to get the counseling then proceed to take their issues out on others and try to force them to walk on eggshells.

      Why should a normal sane holy person walk on eggshells for some weak person who can’t free himself of the devil.

      No one can. Not without Jesus.

      I hope this helps. Discernment is a huge spiritual gift. People get into all sorts of trouble when their moral judgment is not clear enough to tell good and evil apart. That’s how you fall into the hands of evil people and get stranded in dens of iniquity.

      Remember. Bad company corrupts good character. It always has. Holiness has to be maintained like cleanliness. Thank goodness for Jesus though and the 1,000 year reign that should commence soon.

      • Maltnothops

        Ok. But has the author ever killed a mosquito?

        • Susan Jane Elohim

          I don’t follow your question.

          • Maltnothops

            I didn’t follow your previous answer to the same question. So I asked it again.

        • Andres Desaya

          Yes, I would say so..to mosquitos or any pests for that matter.
          Does that concern you?
          In your mind when Pastor Wellman was writing this article…he is equating animal to pests like mosquitos, or do you have a shallow mind equating animals to pests like mosquitos that is why you are asking?

          • Maltnothops

            OP: “God is concerned even with the minutest of creatures in nature.”

            Don’t waste your time telling me he is wrong. Tell him.

          • Andres Desaya

            No, I don’t have no authority to tell Him He is wrong because it is Him who has authority over everything.

            Yes, you are right, I will not waste my time telling you He is wrong.

          • Maltnothops

            Him, in this case, is Wellman.

          • Andres Desaya

            Remember that even God who claims He is good will annihilate and punish the devil and evil ways..

            Anybody will, and Wellman as well will annihilate any pest that pesters for that matter.

            Try not show shallow mindedness for the sake of argument..

          • Maltnothops

            Someone who indiscriminately kills the fetuses of pregnant women isn’t all that good no matter how much he claims to be.

          • Andres Desaya

            **I agree. Personally, I don’t agree with abortion (without no medical reasons) if that is what you are pertaining to**

            But if you are pointing at God because of His instructions to the Israelites in the old testament in war…

            Remember that God has two characters. God only not proclaim His Goodnes and Love….He is not secretive of His viciousness by His reasons and still claims He is still good, no matter of what you think about Him.

            (sorry, negative to you ,quoting verse..try to make it positive)

            He claims, “I form the light, I create darkness, I make peace, I create evil, I the Lord create all this things” Isaiah 45:7. We are in the times of war…evil and good, this is the era we are currently in.

            But after this era, His Love will prevail forever, “Prince of Peace is His name…

            “And the former things pass away, no more death, pain and tears, no more evil..the former things have passed away..” Rev. 21:7.

            Malthonops, now Choose! whether to believe that He does not exist, or He exist but is bad, or He exist and good…Choose, choose! Valley of decisions, your decision will have an eternal impact in your future.

            TIP of who He is…good, bad, evil or non existent,…Study and believe the meaning of the CROSS…

            Valley of decisons..come on Mathonops! It your own decision, not mine! Choose Wisely of what to believe and follow….

          • Maltnothops

            I think someone who indiscriminately kills the fetuses of pregnant women isn’t all that good no matter what his or her name is. I can’t see how the name is relevant.

          • Andres Desaya

            Absolutely wrong! who and reasons are relevant. Also, improper description of an instance makes human judgment err.

            But yet, again, if you are pointing at God because of an instance in the Old Testament and believes that He is a bad God because of this instance, and that you rejected that He is a good Loving God even for His blood sacrifce in the cross for human redemption then yet again…

            The Chioce is yours…..To believe He exists or not, to believe He is good or bad if ever He exist….Choose Malthonops…no one is forcing you.

            Two entities are waiting the Good God or the Evil God of this fallen world…choose Malthnops! Yes, God gave us freedom to choose! and Choose Wisely, no one can decide for you!

            You have more than enough information already, time to decide, you might die today or tomorrow.
            “I don’t know” is not valid, it is a pretentious, chidish and cowardly answer! ….Man Up and be courageous to answer “to believe or not to believe, to accept God’s love or to reject it”…..Amen!… May God guide you and bless you..

            Valley of Decisions…Crossroads…. Crossroads…Malthonops!

          • Maltnothops

            Okay, I’ll bite. What is a valid reason for indiscriminately killing fetuses?

          • Andres Desaya

            A Divine curse derived from the evilness of their ancestors towards God… just as the opposite of Divine Mercy of honoring and worshiping God.

            Same reason as to what will happen to people who ridicules and taunts the offer of eternal life…and just the opposite reason of those who humbles themselves and accepts the offer of Salavation through the cross.

            Lot’s of Warning…. Curse or Life. Choose Malthonops! Valley of Decisions.

            You show your smartness and ridicules God and believers here in this site…Don’t tell me “I don’t know”.

            CHOOSE no one is going to do it for you!

            **Actually, obviously you made your choice already by the things you right here!

          • Maltnothops

            Ah, subjective morality. Very good! I knew you were just like me.

          • Andres Desaya

            No, we sure don’t. I respect what God does because He is the Almighty with higher level of reasoning, and I believe He is a good God because He says so, and Loving God by Jesus action portrayed in the cross. And I accept Him as my Lord and Saviour.

            No, we are not alike, actually we seem to be totally the opposite.

            *Again, I say you go to Atheists site where you can find people who are just like you, pls. take PUD with you…bye bye.***

            But rest assured, you can come back and enjoy Jesus Christ love if you accept Him instead of rejecting Him.

    • Andres Desaya

      I see that PUD and you has the same clusters of way of thinking…

      • Maltnothops

        What’s a PUD?

        • Andres Desaya

          I see that you are a pretentious person pretending you don’t know Him. PUD is a person who is a troll here, a jobless person who compliments your sentiments here, he has the same cluster of thoughts like you.

          You asked a question, you have an honest answer. Now, you know.

          • Maltnothops

            Thank you. I wonder if that is the repetitive ass I blocked a couple years ago.

          • Andres Desaya

            Just to remind you in the right perspective, you may not be aware but you can’t really block him because his way of thinking is inside you.

            Don’t follow his thoughts, he is a fool! and don’t be guided by human arrogance and unbelief!, rather be meek, understand, seek and accept the Love of God portrayed in the cross.

            Accepting Love is a Great Feeling! this gift is eternal.

          • Maltnothops

            If this is the commenter I think it might be, I didn’t block him because he was wrong. He was generally correct. I blocked him because he was tediously repetitive and boorish.

            Rest easy, I’m guided by humility and not arrogance. My absence of faith is based on my humbleness. I don’t pretend to know things that are not known.

          • Andres Desaya

            If PUD is repetitive and boorish, he is not far from you as you have the same cluster of thoughts. I see HIM like YOU that it is not “lack of understanding” but rather rejecting and taunting what you already know and understood is your character.

            Your comments here about our founded faith does not show your humility, actually it could be your arrogance that make you pretend not to know what you actually have already known.

            Personally, it is more acceptable if you say…”I don’t believe what I already know or what has shown to me, I rejected it by choice”.

            **Remember who you are, what you already know and make it straight with God and humble yourself to Him instead..

            Again, God gave us the freedom to choose…

            Malthonops choose wisely!! for your own sake. If you rejected His Love….you might want to reconsider and He will teach, guide and bless you…CHOOSE WISELY!

            And lastly but very important, we believers believe that the devil is also waiting for your DECISION….(believe or not)!

          • Maltnothops

            “it is more acceptable if you say…”I don’t believe what I already know or what has shown to me, I rejected it by choice”.”

            That would be a lie. I don’t reject that which I know. I choose not to believe that which I don’t know.

          • Andres Desaya

            How do you not know when you heard it, read it, chastised it, asked questions and you have been answered, argued about it, ridiculed Pastor Wellman’s writings, implied that God is not a good God…are you kidding me?!

            You act like a smart man when you write here but then suddenly a very childish claim to say “I don’t know”.

            The truth of the matter is you rejected it! you are just a coward to admit it even to yourself! because you heard and know so much about the gospel and maybe even you know it is the truth.

            Man up, stand up for where you decide to join…and wait for consenquences or rewards of where you chose to belong!

            Follow my advice, be quiet and remember what goodness your minister father taught you about the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, kneel and pray to God and asked for forgiveness.

            And He will restore your soul.

            **Or harden you heart and be a coward to admit what you know and lie to yourself “I don’t know”***


          • Maltnothops

            I reject faith. I don’t reject facts. People have faith because they don’t have facts. If they had knowledge, they wouldn’t need faith.

            If there are facts for the existence of your god, why do you suppose the overwhelming majority of people aren’t persuaded? And why aren’t you were persuaded by all the putative facts about other gods?

          • Lance Sharpe

            Overwhelming majority? 80% of the world’s population believe in God or a higher power. You need to do some reading since you are so committed to the ‘facts’. You also need to do some study on philosophy and epistemology before you make yourself look even more daft.

          • Maltnothops

            You moved the goalpost from “your god” to any god, thereby reinforcing my point.

            And your Courtier’s Reply is duly noted.

          • Andres Desaya

            Just GO!!….To the same feathers you have…Enjoy your unbelief as much as we enjoy our Faiths!

            JUST GO….! GO GO..quick GO, bye…

          • Maltnothops

            So tell what persuades you of the existence of the goddess Pele.

          • Andres Desaya

            Just go Malthonops! to atheist sites, you are not wanted here. You don’t need to persuade us on your unbelief. God does not force you..He gave humans the right to choose!

            You already chose…GO TO ATHEIST sites! Go!!! why waste your time and our time. We respect your decision. GO GO GO, no one will hinder you.

            All of humanity was given to excercise their choice…We chose to believe…You chose not to believe. Go! go! go! go! there you went!

            BYE BYE, take JOBLESS PUD with you!

          • Andres Desaya

            Now you are telling the truth “You rejected it”, you did not believe, and you stated the reasons why you decided against believing in Jesus Christ. For you it is not a “fact”. For Us believers it is a fact.

            And the fact of the matter is you excercised your right to choose! You lied when you said “I don’t know”, Now, it is clear you made your decision.

            The reason of this site is for believers is to study, share, encourage and build relationship with God Our Lord Jesus Christ.

            Malthonops, so what are you doing here? You are in the wrong site. You don’t need to be here, I would say, no one has invited you here, you are a troll like PUD here…BYE bye bye..

            Go to sites like Madalynohara.com, Atheistofamerica.com, Jesusishoax.com, Crazychristians.com or the like….

            Stick and work it out with your factual decision..(just make sure, make sure, make sure your choice is not a Curse!)

            You seem to be confused already..correct your wrong data…There are only 7% of you in the worlds population as atheist and agnostics, thus 93% are God believers.

            **My last parting words to you is we believe that Our God and Saviour Jesus Christ SAVES, and He waits!**

          • Maltnothops

            If you think 93% of the world believes in Jesus, you are deluded.

          • Andres Desaya

            No, I am not deluded. I did not say I think 93% believes in Jesus, I said 93% are God believers.

            You rejected your faith. God loves you but respects your choice. Don’t come here and force your unbelief, you are not welcome here.

            But if in the future, you find yourself empty as ever, Jesus is waiting… He touched billions of lives, so He can also to you.

            **For now, bye bye, take jobless PUD with you.**

          • Maltnothops

            And I said the overwhelming majority of people don’t accept “your” god. I don’t why you changed that to any god but it was either sloppy reading, sloppy thinking, or lying.

          • Andres Desaya

            Read again what you wrote” If you think 93% of the world believes in Jesus, you are deluded”. That is not what I think or wrote.

            Again, why are you still here? we respect your decision of rejecting your faith. Go in peace with your decision..bye bye, take jobless PUD with you.

            You can come back if you accept Jesus Love. But since you rejected it.. bye bye for now….bye you are not wanted here. bye bye…

          • Maltnothops

            Read again what I wrote: “If there are facts for the existence of your god, why do you suppose the overwhelming majority of people aren’t persuaded?”

            You then responded that 93% of people believe in some god. So what? The overwhelming majority don’t believe in YOUR god.

          • Andres Desaya

            Remember we are not talking about other religions, the context of our discussion is about you making a decision, did you know, did you believe, did you accept? Your final answer is you REJECTED it. Simple discussion…

            What you seem to insert here is your justification or your reasoning why you rejected it.

            My advice to you is take those justifications and reasons to yourself…make it personal, that is you and between God (if to you he Exist, bad or a good God).

            No one can answer that for you, maybe they can answer some of your questions but you are liable to anyone to explain why you rejected Him, you are only liable to your own self and what made you decide that way..

            If Believers are right that God is a just God…Malthonops you are the only one answerable and accountable in God’s judgment.

            Bye bye, enjoy your decision as much as we enjoy our faiths in a Loving God.

            Come on bye now, don’t have second thoughts. Discussion is just a waste of time when you already made a Decision. Bye bye..

          • Maltnothops

            So was your 93% statistic the result of sloppy reading, sloppy thinking, or were you being dishonest?

          • Andres Desaya

            You guess!

            Don’t force yourself where you are not wanted. Leave, go! Go to atheist sites…where you have the same thinking. Go, go, go don’t force yourself here…

          • Maltnothops

            Guess? You mean believe something I don’t know? Like you and Hindus and Muslims and Satanists do? I’ve already said I don’t rely on faith. I get why you don’t want to answer the question. Every answer is embarrassing for you. But I have no need to invoke faith; I’ll just wait for your honest answer (you wouldn’t bear false witness, would you? Even with your get out of jail free card?) or, as I usually do, live with ambiguity.

            I’m curious if you speak for anyone else when you tell me I’m not wanted here. You are the only one to say that.

          • Andres Desaya

            That is what you are now in this particular discussion…Guessing who you are.

            at times you connotes atheism,
            then you are someone confused about the “mechanism” of the blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ,
            then you seem to denote you are smart,
            then you become “I don’t know”,
            then you become someone who denotes that God is a bad god,
            then you say “you rejected faith”,
            then you shift to world religions..etc..your list could be unending..

            You dance like a whore in a pedestal looking for an audience..you are like a cameleon changing colors all the time…..you may not realize but you make yourself a joker!

            So that you would not look like a real “FOOL” here (like your idol PUD), MAN UP, be COURAGEOUS to follow what you believe or not to believe.

            Choose and decide whom and what to believe firmly. **May God almighty be with you in making these life crucial decisions.**

            At this point in juncture, you don’t need discussions, What you need is DECISION.

            **Rest assured, Jesus saves, loves and patient in all things, much more to you..my advice just accept Him and you will be alright.** Bye or welcome! Valley of decisons!

          • Maltnothops

            So was your 93% statistic the result of sloppy reading, sloppy thinking, or were you being dishonest?

          • Andres Desaya

            (Sory, I corect my mistek, it is 92.9%, oops, my speling is also rong. I hope that will make you more decisive and smarter in making a life changing Decisions)

            Look at this way instead, the most important question you need to make a distinction is… Is Madalyn O’Hair speaking the truth or Jesus Christ is the Truth and the Life and the Way?

            Whom are you going to Believe or follow?

            Choose Malthonops! You are given the freedom to choose by God Himself.

            *Don’t pay so much on attentions about statistics, unnecessary arguments and playing with words or looking to be smart…pay attention to know the TRUTH, by your writings here, you are already so Much Informed…

            It’s time to DECIDE…Bye now, God bless on your decision.

          • Maltnothops

            Ah, the usual. Sloppy thinking and dishonesty.

          • Andres Desaya

            My apology again, correct my sloppyness and dishonesty of .1%.of a statistics.

            Very alert of you to decipher a minute difference of a statistic but unable to tell who is truth…Madalyn O’hair or Jesus Christ!

            How smart of you to Decide to reject your faith….wherein Jesus Christ is the author.

            Bye for now and Stop being a TROLL in a believers site.

            **Again Our Great God Jesus Christ who claims He is truth and the life, waits for you in case you change your decision..We believers decides to Praise and Worship Him**

          • Maltnothops

            Since you’ve indicated that 92.9% of humans believe in “your god” and you’ve further indicated that most of those people don’t believe in Jesus, it would seem that you’ve been lying about Jesus being your god.

          • Andres Desaya

            I Never indicated that 93% of humans believe in my God or Christ, I wrote 93% are “God believers”.

            Now, you are puttings things I did not write, now you are creating interpretations out of these things I did not write, now you are accusing me of lying because of these interpretations I did not make.

            You are Joker! You want to drift away from original meaningful topic, you are typical TROLL just in a site like this for the sake of discussion, no intent to learn.

            BYE for now TROLL!

            *My parting words, get Right with God, align yourself with Him and Stop to become a TROLL, a senseless being who Can’t distinguish WHO is telling the Truth…

            Now CHOOSE whom you want to BELIEVE..the words of Madalyn O’Hair or Jesus Christ!

            Only ONE of them is telling the TRUTH. Valley of decisions! Choose wisely! No one is going to decide for you….

            WARNING! from Our Lord Jesus Christ..”I set you this day to choose between Good and Evil, LIFE or DEATH; therefore choose LIFE….”

            Malthonops, God Loves you and He will guide you with the right decision…! Bye bye bye!

          • Maltnothops

            Yes, you wrote 93% are “God believers” (note the uppercase G) in response to my observation that the overwhelming majority of people don’t accept “your” god. Surely you understand the difference between the Christian god(s) and all gods?

          • Andres Desaya

            Yes, when I wrote ‘93% God believers’, I meant anyone who believes in a higher power, some kind of a Deity..etc, NOT only who believes in the christian way of knowing God.

            *The relation of the christian God and of the gods of the other great religions of the world is another topic.

            This is an interesting topic though and maybe in the future when you make your decision whether Jesus is real and the Way the Truth, then His being God will make a direct connection to all these other “god believers”.

            By itself, God is not secluded in His Holiness but He is also an interesting, wise and not boring but a creative and artistic God.*

          • Maltnothops

            So I wearily return to my question: If the “facts” about your god are so obvious, why does the overwhelming majority of the earth’s population find them unpersuasive?

            I sure hope you don’t repeat your earlier moronic reply that 93% of people believe in some god.

          • Andres Desaya

            You know what you know, you believe what you believe, you know what you don’t believe…

            It’s time to Make Your Own Decision! You have given Freedom to Choose!

            Bye Now.

          • Maltnothops

            Your “fact” that I have been “given” free choice is unevidenced and hence unpersuasive.

          • Andres Desaya

            Then don’t choose…that is a choice too, no one needs to persuade you, no one is asking you to Troll in a site like this. This site is for people who want to CHOOSE and chosed to Believe.

            What are you doing here if you do not want to choose?

            Go, Go, go.. no one is persuading you to CHOOSE, stay away from here Go! Bye for real.

            **In reality though, you have already Chosen! not to believe, to reject your faith.*** BYE, bye.

          • Maltnothops

            “What are you doing here …?”

            I’m doing two things. First, I’m reviewing my opinions (what you refer to as “facts”). I find it useful to challenge my thinking from time to time by engaging with someone such as you. You present arguments for why I should have the same opinions as you and I see if they are persuasive.

            Second, I’m giving you the opportunity to improve your sales pitch (what Covey called “sharpening the saw”). You get to see what works as you fulfill your obligation to the Great Commission. To me, it seems like a reasonable quid pro quo. I get something and I give something.

          • Andres Desaya

            Just Go! and realize that you already excercised your freedom to choose and made a decision. You are just scared to admit it, man up! Savor your arrogance and unbelief!

            You chosed not to believe, you get something in consequence!

            You are not wanted here.

            Also admit that you are just a TROLL, don’t force yourself here!

            What a tragedy in going in the wrong crossroads……..what a tragedy in not believing in a Saviour! Jesus Christ, what a waste of blood sacrifice!

            *Madalyn O’hair welcomes you…

            Jesus Christ can’t force His Love and Himself to you….He can only wait*

            BYE Maltnothops! Bye bye…

          • Maltnothops

            “Savor your arrogance and unbelief!”

            I regard faith as arrogant and skepticism as humility.

            “You are not wanted here.”.

            By whom?

            “Jesus Christ can’t force His Love and Himself to you”

            Why do you worship such a weak god?

          • Andres Desaya

            You are not wanted by me, by believers here..as you are a nuisance, you don’t belong in this site. You are just a TROLL.

            Go to atheist sites where you share the same sentiments. “Skepticism is humilty” and believing in a higher power is “arrogance”…”good is evil, and evil is good”. You described yourself well.

            Who told you I worship a weak God? I don’t.

            I worship a Powerful Almighty God who does not force Himself and gives Free Will.

            Wrong notion you have.. that ‘not forcing’ your Will does mean weakness.

            Don’t force yourself here. Be embarrassed! Go…

          • Maltnothops

            It seems you are using ‘troll” as an ad hominem. In which case your argument is logically invalid.

            “Skepticism is humilty” and believing in a higher power is “arrogance”. You described yourself well.”

            Thank you. One of us is absolutely certain that his beliefs are correct. Even though the overwhelming majority of people on earth disagree with him. That is arrogance. As for me, I make no claims beyond the available evidence. Are there gods? Heck if I know.

            “Who told you I worship a weak God?”

            You did. You wrote that Jesus “can’t” do something or other. “Can’t.” Not “won’t”. Can’t. Can not. Is unable to. Does not have the capacity. Is helpless to. Is powerless to. A god that cannot make a human do something is indeed a weak god. You moved the goalpost later, of course, when you wrote that your god does not force itself upon you. But I think your first statement is more likely to be what you really believe. Your later backtracking was a matter of backfilling your Kinsley gaffe.

            “… gives free will.” Evidence needed.

          • Andres Desaya

            Correction noted, wrong word I used. You are more accurate, God “can but He won’t”. Thank you for pointing that difference. Now, He is not a weak God but a God who gives free will.

            Now you see, now you understand, you re-worded it accurately…That is an evidence of God giving free will but not meaning weakness…in your own accurate words. Well said.

            With us believers, acknowledging that we are just a creation and bowing and acknowledging a creator and higher power is “humility”.

            That for you is “arrogance” and “skepticism is humility”. That’s the big difference. An evidence of free will to choose..to believe or not to believe, to acknowlegde or not to, to worship or not to worship.

            You chose not to BELIEVE, you excercised that, and that makes you TROLL here in a believers site.

          • Andres Desaya

            If you are not forced when you rejected your faith, then you are one of the evidence. But if someone forced you then you can not be an evidence….you know yourself if you were forced.

            I myself is not forced to believe, then you can consider me as an evidence of free will.

            Believing to a higher Power, keelng and bowing unto Him is humility.

            Looking for evidence although a Higher Power claims He exist, (even became human and died in the cross as christians believes), looks more of arrogance than humility.

          • Maltnothops

            While I think “free will” is questionable*, my point about it was on the “gift” or “given”. Possession of something is not evidence of how it was acquired. For example, both I and my daughter possess cars. One was a gift and one wasn’t.

            *There are interesting studies about pre-cognition. It seems people “choose” before knowing what they are even choosing about. Short version: people think they chose when they did not.

          • Andres Desaya

            Can we make ourselves example for simplicity?

            With you and me making our decisions the opposite way, and no one of us is claiming that we are coerced, threatened, manipulated, etc, .

            And we even strongly express, explain, discuss, argue and justify and exerted our knowledge, wisdom and wits to rationalize our decision then we ‘not only have free will but we are fighting for what we have chosen to believe…’

            What may have influence our way of thinking or thought process to what we believe is another story.

            Does children of ministers or religious people will always be a believer? Does children of atheist always tend not to be a believer? Maybe this is what you are pointing out.

            But again as indivuals and at the end of the day pertaining to our actions and decisions, without someone coercing or threatening us, we did things by our free will, whether we see it as spiritual or just doing our daily chores.

            If this is true, (as christian believers understands how we end up in a cursed state) then in heaven when Satan started questioning God and ultimately rebelled instead of worshiping and honoring Him, and this transpired because God gave him Freewill…then as humans we are also given the freewill to believe or not to believe, to follow God or not to follow.

            God claims He is a Good God although in the Bible there are instances wherein He was merciless even brutal being an Authority. But also claims He is Love and a rewarder of those who are faithful to Him.

            We are to,choose…, God does not force Himself to be worshipped, but of course we have to understand that there a clear warning of consequences.

            But rest assured, if we Trust and Believe His wisdom, faithfulness and good character, no matter what challenges in this earthly life, we are in His side and in good hands.

            And that is the edge for those who Believes.

          • Andres Desaya

            I am speaking here as a layman and not in a medical aspect but this could be accurate too…that of course everyone who makes a choice in perfect mental health unless in a duress or coercion have of course ‘cognition’ is automatically utilized as means to choose, pre-cognition is just a step ahead in making that decision and it does not mean “freewill” was waived.

            Influenced or biased might be the right term but as humans (as believers) in a lower level than God or the devil (good or evil)…I would rather asked to be influenced by God (goodness) rather than influenced by the devil (evilness).

            For us believers, in a spiritual aspect, a choice between believing God exist, that this God is good or that God does not exist at all or if ever He exist he not good etc, etc..

            For us believers it is counted a Joy that we choose what we believe and we believe what we choose, and that what we believe is the right choice.

            This Joy and derived from our faith in God gives us perfect peace even in a world of turmoil. Thank God, for some mysterious reason, He exists…and is Good, and as believers we have proof that we can see and feel… hidden in our hearts..

          • Maltnothops


            You keep using that word. I don’t think it means what you think.

          • Andres Desaya

            (BYE..to end this conversation that has been drifting away from it’s essence.)

            And ask God to guide you in making your decision.

            And if you make the right decison in believing Jesus Christ and make Him as your God, Personal Saviour and Friend rather than believing in Madalyn O’hair…

            God says “Welcome”. Jesus is a real my friend, the story real, a mystery of love expressed.

            Bye for now, It is time to CHOOSE and Make the Right Decision, you will feel secure in Jesus arms. Believe!

          • Maltnothops

            Believe in O’Hair? No worries — I don’t. I’m not even sure what would mean. Unless you mean if I believe she actually existed. Yes, I do believe there is sufficient evidence to establish that she was a pen actual person.

          • Andres Desaya

            You read and is familiar about God, Jesus, Christianity, blood sacrifice, good and evil, and also other gods, other religions, fairy tales….and now know and learn more about Madalyn O’Hair then…CHOOSE, simple as that!

            Do your assignment well and pass the test!

            You don’t need to tell me your answer, it is with You and God alone of these things at this stage…

            BYE BYE bye now. ( you don’t need to tell me or clarify anything to me anymore, BYE for real, BYE!) God bless if you believe, goodluck if you don’t..it is your choice! BYE! bye bye..

          • Maltnothops

            I said that I don’t “believe in” O’Hair (whatever that means). I didn’t say I was unfamiliar with her opinions (what you refer to as “facts”). I can’t see any benefit to learning more about her views but if you really think it is worthwhile, I’m open to persuasion.

          • Andres Desaya

            Choose…believe it or not you have free will. Actually, you already excercised free will BY REJECTING YOUR FAITH as claimed by you! No one has persuaded you to throw away your faith, it was your choice not to believe!

            *Madalyn O’hair share the same sentiments like you. You chose the same path.*

            Free will is the name of the Game of Life and Death, willing to SAVED or to be UNSAVED.

            Bye now. Goodluck with what you chose. GO Now, STOP TROLLING in this site.

            BYE, bye…TROLL. We are glad the TROLL is gone! and Madalyn O’hair is gone.

          • Maltnothops

            “No one has persuaded you to throw away your faith, it was your choice not to believe!”

            Was it? How can one demonstrate that I had the capacity to choose. Can you choose to believe in the Hindu gods and to disbelieve in your Christian gods? Go ahead, do it. Choose to believe that Jesus was a fraud. You can always choose to change your beliefs again later, right?

          • Andres Desaya

            Jesus Christ my God, my Saviour, my Friend says invited me to believe, have faith and follow Him, but made me aware that, “He who is not with me is against me”.

            You rejected your faith, you rejected Jesus Christ! Admit it, don’t be SCARED!

            Say, hello to Madalyn O’hair,….Be strong and stand by your decision…BYE TROLL!!!

            **JESUS CHRIST can’t force you to believe in Him but if you change your mind, He claims He forgives*

            BYE TROLL!

          • Maltnothops

            So, were you able to choose that Jesus was a fraud?

            “You rejected your faith”. To be accurate, I rejected faith as a method of ascertaining truth.

            “you rejected Jesus Christ!” I did no such thing. Jesus may indeed be the Christ; I haven’t seen any evidence to support that hypothesis. I’m open to the idea that the bible is wrong and that Jesus actually is a god.

            “Say hello to … O’Hair”.

            How could I? She is dead. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, yadda, yadda.

          • Andres Desaya

            Yes, God respects your decison…! Madalyn O’hair rejected faith as you did.

            BYE bye now!

          • Maltnothops

            How is it possible to say hello to someone who is dead?

          • Andres Desaya

            Actually, it may be unecessary to say hello to her as you already embraced her ideals, but if you want to say hello in her grave, you need to look for her unmarked grave in an Austin Cemetary. (or maybe you can ask the curators there)

            But it seems you are hesitant to do these so You May want to follow my example…

            As for me, I embraced the ideals of a crucified but Risen Savior. I say pray to Him everyday, acknowledge Him as my God and Saviour and Friend.

            CHOOSE what to believe…an ideals of dead Madalyn O’hair in an unmarked grave, or believe in a resurrected Saviour, alive in heaven and coming back to earth with Great Power and Glory to save those who have Faith..

            Again it is choice…We have Free Will on what to believe…

            A Vice for You and a reality to billions of humans..You might want to CHOOSE again, Maltnothops.

            No need to tell me or posts your decision here and your reasons of why and why not…

            It is a matter of Personal issue between yourself and God if you CHOSE to BELIEVE..

            *yes, english is my second language so thank you for pointing my word errors for better and accurate understanding, see…you can see what I see, know and acknowledge that the Lord is Good.

            FREE To CHOOSE, God given freewill, Yahoooo!, Thank You Lord For Saving My Soul, Yahoooo! There is a Life Everlasting waiting. Yahoooo!.

            A BELIEVER or Troll to believers? Choooooose!

          • Andres Desaya

            Oh, yes, at a point of my life, I though Jesus was just like a crazy guy. Then He showed me who He really was. No one can force me to believe Him if I don’t as much as I am forced not to believe Him if I do.

            I am Much like you… The only difference is I believed and you don’t. Both of us excercised our Free Will.

            Let me point out that how you see things is how you see things, you have a free will to make a decision on how you see and evaluate things. That is your right as a human being…no question about that.

            And God will respect our individual decisions…

            The cards are open… Choose the answer you want with the corresponding rewards or evil consequences.

            Believe or not to believe. God is waiting, the devil is also waiting for your Decision.

            Maltnothops…time to decide. We agree to disagree? Bye bye…

            As for me, God exist and He is the same person in the cross.

            How about you? You only can answer the question and be accountable yourself of your answer whatever you reasoning is. Bye now! God bless you in your decision if it is a good one.

          • Maltnothops

            I’ll let you know if I ever sense your god guiding me in some way. Not in the last 10 hours. Maybe you should ask it more nicely or more fervently or less transactionally.

            Not sure what decision you think I need to make.

          • Andres Desaya

            Absolutely you are right! knowing if God is real or knowing who He is, is not supposed to be a transaction. And obviously not arguing or discussion in a site like this..

            RATHER, if you are SINCERE, it is acknowledging that He exist, that we are just humans, a part of His creation and that we should believe that He is Loving and Wise creator.

            The mystery is yours to discover…kneel and asked Him to reveal Himself to you…Is He really the One who died in the cross..is He God, a Saviour and a Friend?

            or He is fake like what Madalyn O’hair tells?

          • Maltnothops

            Since you’ve already asked your god to do something for me, I can’t see how my asking the same thing would have any effect.

          • Andres Desaya

            Maybe because you rejected Him. You exercised your free will to reject the faith you learned since you are young, you did not believe. He loves you but if you throw Him away, an evil entity will claim you!

            Madalyn O’hair is already dead, murdered and claimed by evil forces.

            When you reject Him, He can say to you too, “I never knew you..depart from me..” Jesus Christ.

            I don’t want to do anything with you either. BYE NOW!! bye now….

            Don’t answer me anymore. BYE, goodluck with your choice, try not to think a lot.

            Don’t worry, you just excercised your Right To Choose! Freedom Malthonops! Freedom
            to CHOOSE! God given Freedom!

            BYE TROLL!

          • Maltnothops

            “Maybe because you rejected Him.”

            Another instance of poor reading or lying. I did not reject your god. I rejected faith believing in its existence on the basis of faith. Big difference. To say that I rejected your god is akin to saying that I rejected the existence of calico swans. I’ve never seen a calico swan or a photo of one but that doesn’t mean I reject calico swans. I reserve judgment, pending evidence.

            ‘Don’t answer me anymore”

            I don’t take direction from you. You could choose to not respond to me but you keep choosing otherwise. (Maybe that is a gift from me! I’m unaware of any evidence that I’ve given you free will but I’m also unaware of any evidence that I haven’t. It’s a mystery.)

            “try not to think a lot.”

            Why not?

          • Andres Desaya

            Man up! Scared to admit your choice? You are just playing with words..hiding.

            Try not to think a lot about the consequence of your choice, be a man!

            Check on Madalyn O’hair instead, she thinks a lot you! She made a decision, she is waiting for you… She’s also dead, murdered by her employee in an atheist organization.

            BYE TROLL, go where you are appreciated, Madalyn O’hair would like you on her side…

            **but Jesus Christ is also waiting if you believe He is real….** But BYE for Now!

          • Maltnothops

            “Scared to admit your choice?”

            What an odd statement. I already said I rejected faith. That is hardly an admission; I regard faith as a vice. It is as if you are saying I “admit” that I don’t cheat on my taxes.

            “Try not to think a lot about the consequence of your choice, be a man!”

            Could you explain how manliness is related to not thinking very much? Why do you hate men so much?

          • Andres Desaya

            Well, if Faith is like a Vice for you. I just hope that you will not end up in a Smoke! You got to accept your fate, that’s manly! Don’t think too much of that.

            God forbid! that He rejects you too, and instead His love and forgiveness prevails.

            Bye bye for now…!

          • Maltnothops

            As for leaving this site. I will honor Mr. Wiley’s wishes on that point.

          • Andres Desaya

            It is apparent that you did not learn anything from this site…so why come and stay in a place like this if all your thoughts are against the believer authors.

            Maybe Mr. Wiley is wise in giving you advice to go away. Rest assured, you can come back if you change your mind, I’m sure you will blessed by The Divine.

            “Fight a good fight of faith…and finish the race.” 2Tim. 4:7

          • Maltnothops

            “Maybe Mr. Wiley is wise in giving you advice to go away.”

            He hasn’t said anything to me so far. Maybe he is wise in not asking me to leave.

          • Andres Desaya

            Just go to where your same feather flicks together. YOU ARE NOT LIKED HERE!!!

            Come back when you are willing to accept Jesus Christ as your personal saviour.

            Bye now, don’t force yourself where you don’t belong, be embarrassed!

  • Andres Desaya

    Pastor, good biblical input and reference about proper view of animals…it is our mandate to take care of them as companion, a worker or ‘beast of burden’ or respect them even as part of human substenance.

    • Jack Wellman

      Thank you friend.

      • Andres Desaya

        ***Welcome. It is nice of you to remind us of these issues because although they are created lower than humans, God gave animals feelings, they can give love as much as they deserve our care, respect and love too.

  • JudeG.

    This entire “conversation” is a CF. There’s more than one troll in this. I don’t have the time. Bye.

    • Andres Desaya

      Unfortunately you are right, I hope we are in the same page (I’m a believer who likes to learn and share) but sometimes we are sucked in a seemingly intelligent conversation that ends up unnecessary discussing with a troll.

  • Jack Wellman

    As for Maltnothops non-relevant question, “But has the author ever killed a mosquito?” this is about animals and human care for them. A little effort to do some research on the worth of mosquitos who know that, although it appears mosquitoes seem to serve no purpose other to annoy us, from the point of view of birds, fishes, frogs and other animals that eat them, their purpose is to provide a source of food. The article is about animals and not insects, so your question only reveals your nature as that of being a troll. Matt 7:6 is my repsonse, and my last response since I will no longer read or respond to this particular troll.

  • Richard Treptow

    The moderator of this blog needs to consider civility when determining which comments are to be published.