I Quit Church And I’m Happy About It

I Quit Church And I’m Happy About It July 4, 2019

QuitI Would Quit Again

I’m not going to church anymore, I quit. God told me I don’t have to go and I listened. If you think God told you to go, then I suggest you go. I’m pretty happy about the fact that God released me. My life has been a lot less complicated since I stopped going. What happened to me after I stopped going to church was part of my deconstruction. It has been a wild ride, but one that I would take again gladly if given the opportunity.

I Was Afraid

The first thing that happened to me when I quit church was fear. My heart was afraid that God would be mad at me. I was afraid of falling back into sin like those who stayed behind told me I would. There was a fear of losing community. My loneliness from not being in active church life cemented those fears. Part of me was terrified I had made a mistake. I had taken a bite out of the un-churched apple. I had left, and had sealed my fate.

Where The New Covenant Lead

I quit the church initially because my eyes were opened to the New Covenant. Picture a step like that of Indiana Jones in “The Last Crusade” move, when he took a “leap of faith” across a great chasm, to find his aim; the cup of Christ. He stood there overlooking a plunge to certain death and put his foot out, leg straight and true, Quitfully intending to take a step when he could not see where his foot would land. When his foot was stopped by a bridge he had not seen, he sighed with relief at finding his footing.

In the same way, leaving the church felt like that fearful step into the unknown. My family of forty years would not go with me. In fact, they would all turn their back on me with the “left foot of fellowship”. I was alone, but the spirit of God would show me that I could depend on our union.

I Tried To Find A Church

At first, after I quit my “home church”, I looked for a church that believed as I did. It’s no different than someone who chooses Baptist over non-denominational. When your eyes are open to the fact that tithing is complete bullshit, you can’t sit and listen as someone fleeces the sheep. There were other doctrinal issues that had pushed me out to try to find someone, anyone, who was walking in truth.

The further I went out, the more pillars began to crumble in the institutional church building. While hoping to find a body of believers that knew the truth and were walking in it, there were understandings breaking through my heart every day. Every church I tried to connect with was a complete disappointment. I couldn’t eat what they were serving anymore, my appetite had totally changed for the better. I felt like I had unplugged from the matrix and there was no turning back.

Church Came To Me

God was with me, and even though I had quit going to church, church started coming to me. I was living in an apartment and the smoke detector went off, leading me to call maintenance. A man showed up with Quithis son to take care of fixing the smoke detector and the son noticed my guitar. One thing led to another and the young man ended up weeping and crying as I witnessed the love of God to him. We had experienced marvelous encounters, and none of them were inside a building.

The Wind In My Sails

A week later after the smoke detector surprise, three gay men who did not live at our complex, came in late at night to use the swimming pool. We went down for an evening swim, and we started talking with them. The love of God poured out between us, and there were tears. Every time I looked for God outside of the confines of a church relationship, I was not let down.

When I would start missing the fellowship that I had become so accustomed to inside the building, there would be a beautiful spontaneous expression that would be like a wind catching my faith sails. Whenever I was weary, God moments breathed upon my soul and I kept going.

The Ties That Bound, Loosed

Every time I had another epiphany about God outside of the church, I would become stronger. At times, it felt like learning to walk all over again. I always felt God with me, in me and through me. No longer did I need a pastor to show me how to live, I was spirit led all by myself and thriving. I began to find others that had left the church and were doing fine. Some of them were like me, trying to find their footing after thirty years of service. My life lost its co-dependencies and I started really walking in a spirit led life. My life was evidence of a spirit led life outside of the church building.

Demanding God?quit

That’s what’s scary for people. When you go to church, it pacifies some guilt that is embedded systematically by religion. It’s those twisted scriptures that really don’t mean what they say they do that twist the proverbial guilt blade. The, “Don’t forsake the fellowship of the brethren” verse is a good one. Other verses are used by the modern church as tools to keep people coming. If you told people they didn’t have to go to church, would they stay home? Today, where we battle for every second of time we can get, who wouldn’t stay home if they realized God wasn’t demanding their attendance?

They Did “Church” Different

When we go back to the beginning, you know that place around the time when Jesus rounded up a bunch of misfits; there was no building. At that time, there were no pastor’s in pulpits or apostles claiming they were more important than the seated pastors. There were no congregations, no tithe demands backed up by promises that God blesses the cheerful giver. Believers came together, loving God and each other in simplicity. People were going “from house to house” in spontaneous fellowship. That was what Jesus asked them to do, wasn’t it? Today, we have complicated and mechanized that beautiful relationship that Jesus perpetuated while he walked the earth. Puppeteers tell parishioners that “their reasonable sacrifice” is to attend church, and they not only believe it, they promote it defiantly as well.

quitI Was A True Building Disciple(r)

I promoted the institutional church agenda for thirty years and I know how we convince ourselves that “it’s true”. We parrot the same verbiage that we have swallowed. When someone refuses to listen, it becomes pointless to try to convince them of anything other than their truth. My life in ministry demanded that I was hard-nosed and defiant to anything that “threatened MY truth”. Now that I am on the other side of having my ears washed out with the soap of reality beyond religion, I look at those I have left behind with sadness and a desire to ask them to listen. It is for my brother’s and sister’s still in captivity that I write about life outside of institutionalism. Those who want to quit but are afraid.

Ask Yourself

Ask yourself if you have ever wanted to sleep in. Have you ever heard the alarm go off on a Sunday morning and wished you could stay in bed another hour? Was there a time when you felt God nudge you in a direction, one that you excitedly shared with “leadership”, to find that they wouldn’t support you? Have you ever allowed yourself to question whether we are doing church right? Have you wanted to change church the way it is currently done? Did you want to quit? Questions lead to answers, if we allow ourselves to explore them. Religion is afraid of those who will ask questions, and are brave enough to discover the answers. My answer was to leave the institution and it was the right answer, for me. Can you be brave and admit that you have questions like I did?

Available publications by PK Langley

PK Langley
PK Langley

PK’s Fine Art Store where you can find many of the Frustrated Grace Prints.

KINDLE E-BOOKS

PK writes short stories about life. They are in the form of ebooks for $1.37 each. Get them here.

PAPERBACK BOOKS

Religious Deconstruction, The Frustrated Grace Series is now available, with over two hundred comic images on Amazon. You can get a preview of every single one here.

All Things Equal,  is an exposition for women and how God

sees them from a very “biblical” point of view. It was what I needed in my first push toward deconstruction. If you are still in a church, and a woman, this is a great book to start. Get it here.

 

Deconstruction tools

LangleyTown has a specific page for materials that will help you with your deconstruction. Find them here.

PK Langley’s most Popular Blog Posts!

I Quit Church And I’m Happy About It

 

 

 

God Made Me Gay

 

Straight Pride?

 

 

 

Check out, Paradigm shift to Spirit led living.

Read, “When the Good News Goes Bad” by clicking here.

Social Connections

You can find me on Facebook at “PK Langley

Thank you for stopping by, I’d love to hear your comments!

"Raised fundy Catholic in the 50's and 60's.Never fit in; gender non-conforming and demanding answers ..."

Celebrating a 20 year Lesbian Marriage ..."

Browse Our Archives

Follow Us!


TRENDING AT PATHEOS Progressive Christian
What Are Your Thoughts?leave a comment
  • Good article. After nearly 50 years in the institution, this is my story also. So good to know we are not alone in our deconstruction.

  • FrustratedGrace

    I am comforted by that, that when I reached out, I found others…such as yourself. Glad to know we are in the same boat rowing..All the best..PK

  • Brandon Roberts

    ok.

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    In today’s climate, where 81% of American Christians went over to the Dark Side back in 2016, when they aligned themselves

    with TЯ卐m₽ >–> the Beast … thereby turning the “Bride of Christ” into the “Harlot of Babylon”.

    When that happened, I too, severed ALL ties with the Apostate Church, as commanded by our Lord in Revelation 18:4.

    “Come out of her my people, lest ye partake in her sins and her plagues.” – Revelation 18:4

  • kcwookie

    In my case, the church left me. They stopped being relevant and the door got closer and closer. The best part about it that I’ve met better people outside. The people I’m talking about care about me and treat me with human respect, something I didn’t find on the inside.

    The best part of not going to church is that I’m no longer lost. I am found.

  • Carol Thomas

    I havent left. I totally get it though. I have mulled it over many times over the years. I decided to stay for many reasons.

    We are a one stop place where I live for all needs in our community from debt support, pregnancy advisory, ancillary groups for various programs, elderly groups, mom and baby, youth discos and much more. I was led there as I facilitate an ancillary group in the church.

    I know Jesus wants me there as I help bridge a gap needed in our church.

    I dont believe as main stream christianity belief system. I have learnt how to discern what I share about my beliefs without compromising myself

    I am a big fan of The Franscisan monk, Fr Richard Rohr. You will find alot of his teachings on You Tube.

    He is trained in the original tradition of mysticism and what the church was supposed to be about which is the inner life. He is a what Jesus meant faith to be.

    Without his guidance over the last few years I would have left the church and done what you have done.

    Fortunately my church is an independent and whilst we have the “party” line it does do an awful lot of good in the community.

    There is quite a few of us in the church who listen to Fr Richard Rohr which they know.

    Perhaps if you dont know of him you would enjoy listening to him

  • Tammy Mills Hanley

    I am really pleased to know that this deconstruction isn’t just me. Everything you say rings true.

  • Jamie Stidham Kochert

    Haven’t been for more than a year now. And, I am quite confident that God and I are fine. We talk, we argue and we love one another…NO MATTER MY LOCATION!

  • JesusFreak57

    Very good article! Been deconstructing and reconstructing my faith for about 3 – 4 years now. We left our denominational church 4 years ago. Tried others. None worked. Starting manning the Salvation Army Christmas Kettle 2 years ago. Had many disagreements with their local pastors; some heated exchanges. But in the end, LOVE won the debate and my husband and I are seeking membership in the fall. My eyes were opened to the reality of Christian service in community thru the Salvation Army. No more throwing money at “issues”. Time to get down and dirty, loving my community with the love of Christ. Thank you for writing! ✌

  • Bill

    Just an add for her books. Not a real search for truth.

  • Rudy Schellekens

    The problem? We are called to a community.
    We are added to a Body.
    We have a common fellowship.
    We share a loaf and a cup.
    We share laughter and tears.
    We are called to be a Body, where each part has a responsibility, and where all parts share in the strengthening of that Body.
    We are called to a unity of mind, purpose, learning.

    We are not intended to live this life as a child of God alone…

  • TarHeel70

    Your progressive god sounds like an awfully accomodating chap.

  • Sean Dattoli

    I’m curious to understand what that means. 81%? That’s very specific #. What did they do? Thx

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    For crying out loud, back in 2016, when polled, Evangelicals were asked whom they voted for,
    81% responded that they voted for TЯ卐m₽. Not hard to do a a bit of research.

    • TЯ卐m₽ is the Lawless One as described in: 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12.
    • TЯ卐m₽ is the Abomination of Desolation. – Matthew 24:15-31, Daniel 12:9-13
    • TЯ卐m₽ is the Beast! – Revelation 13:1-9, Daniel 7:25

  • J Inverso

    The Church is NOT a building, it is the community of believers. I go to church because I am a sinner and need healing. I know that confessing with, loving and supporting others like me brings me joy and joy brings us closer to God. Besides, I believe humans need community. “For where two or three gather together as my followers, I am there among them.” Not a bad reason to go.

  • Sean Dattoli

    You’re way off. Your hermeneutics are so bad you’ve created a new religion. Many evangelicals didn’t endorse Trump as much as they couldn’t sign off on abortion etc. But your reading things into biblical text is heresy my friend.

    Since Trump supports Israel, your use of the Swastikas presents a lack of reasoning I’ve never seen. Are you ANTIFA? Branch Dividian? Cult?

  • Julian Holdsworth

    I run a podcast for those on the fringes of church life or for those who still love Jesus, but can’t cope with church at the moment for whatever reason. If you are interested, here’s our latest podcast on how to leave a church well … http://dchurched.libsyn.com/dechurched-how-to-leave-a-church-part-1

  • Julian Holdsworth

    I run a podcast for those on the fringes of church life or for those who still love Jesus, but can’t cope with church at the moment for whatever reason. If you are interested, here’s our latest podcast on how to leave a church well … http://dchurched.libsyn.com/dechurched-how-to-leave-a-church-part-1

  • Chari McCauley

    Exactly, when it’s time,, you go to the streets. The community is there.

  • The best place I’ve found to look outside the ‘church’. . . http://www.energon.org.uk

  • FrustratedGrace

    Thank you Chari for stopping by. I have been far more active in the community since I left the building. 🙂

  • FrustratedGrace

    Julian, thank you for stopping by and sharing a resource. Appreciate you SO much!

  • FrustratedGrace

    J., thank you for stopping by. I’m so sorry you consider yourself a sinner. The whole point of what Jesus preached was letting us know we didn’t have to hang onto sin consciousness any more. I don’t advocate for everyone to leave the church. If you are happy there, wonderful. Myself, I just can’t..and won’t. I’m too happy out here with Jesus..and the body..there’s room for both of us.

  • FrustratedGrace

    TarHeel70, I believe that God is far more loving than we give him credit for. I also believe he’s just as disinterested in politics as Jesus was. All the best..PK

  • FrustratedGrace

    Oh Rudy, you have so many problems. Perhaps Jesus can solve them for you and you can stop being such a grumpy man. I have fellowship with believers outside of church but your obtuse nature is not going to hear that. I share with believers outside of the building all the time. I hope you never are forced outside the building, you may have to change your mind and that appears to be a hard thing for you. Thanks Rudy..tell me about your life some time. Do you have kids? A wife? Are you happy? Rudy, fellowship with me!

  • FrustratedGrace

    Oh Bill, really…I have given away far more books than I ever sold. I only offer resources for those who need them. If I was in it for profit, I wouldn’t have to suffer these judgmental comments..lol All the best, dear Bill..

  • FrustratedGrace

    JesusFreak! I’m so happy you’ve found a place of function. I believe that there is room for all of us, whether it is inside a church or outside of one, as long as you are flowing so wonderfully…all the best, PK

  • FrustratedGrace

    Oh Jamie, that is SO very good to hear. I believe your voice is important to educate others that God is capable of existing outside of a building. So many have been conditioned to fear…yet they deny it wholeheartedly. I’m thankful for you! All the best, PK

  • FrustratedGrace

    Tammy, thank you so very much! Hop on over to Langleytown, all the cartoons I did while deconstructing are there to enjoy. There’s over two hundred of them so it will take some time investment..lol All the best sister, PK

  • FrustratedGrace

    Carol, thank you for commenting. I am very familiar with Rohr, thank you. Many of my friends are big fans. I appreciate your stance and know that there are those of you who stand in the gap. All the best, PK

  • FrustratedGrace

    kcwookie, are you a Star Wars fan? Yessss! I appreciate your comment and sharing with others is important. When we educate others it changes people. I remember speaking to a group of pastors in Uganda and I told them, “You don’t have to go to church”. One man, a dear friend of mine, pulled me aside after and said, “Pastor, if you tell people they don’t have to go to church, they won’t”. I said, “Precisely”. When it isn’t a law, people are free. All the best, PK

  • FrustratedGrace

    Hello Brandon..

  • soter phile

    And, as was his custom, Jesus went to the synagogue on the Sabbath… (Lk.4:16)

    Your last paragraph is the most telling.
    All of your questions – all of them! – are all about “me” & my desires/experiences.
    Where is Christ in your thinking?

    No, you can’t say “Jesus, you can come visit… but I want nothing to do with your Bride!”

    Never mind that he was rather clear that the Church IS his game plan (Mt.16:18).

  • soter phile

    you said: “I’m so sorry you consider yourself a sinner.”

    If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (1 Jn.1:8)

  • soter phile

    Accommodation admits there is a standard one might fail & still be forgiven.
    The author seems to want a self-projected robot who rubber stamps whatever one wants to think.

    Ironically, you can’t have a personal relationship with someone who always only agrees with you.

  • soter phile

    He gave you a litany of biblical references & commands.
    You dismissed him as if he was just a curmudgeon concerned with ‘physical facilities’.

    When you can make your ‘god’ say whatever you want, who is the real god?

  • Rudy Schellekens

    O, frustrated grace, I am a very happy person! So happy, in fact, that I don’t feel the need to use “frustrated…” in my id! Of course there is fellowship outside the building – but you don’t have to leave the church for that. When you say church, I see PEOPLE, not walls. When you say church, I see Body, not walls.
    And when I look what I wrote,EACH of the statements is people-related, and nowhere is there a reference to a building.

    My mind is changeable, thank you very much. But not so changeable that I make changes in the Bible to fit my needs. Through the years, I have changed my mind on a thing or two, three. But not because of changes in society. That influence is going the wrong way. The church should influence society! But unfortunately, it is going the wrong direction. Reminds me of an official visit of a French naval vessel in the town where I lived before moving here. They emptied their bilge storage into the drinking water system, and caused a large number of people to get seriously ill.

    I have a wife, I have kids – 2 sons, and grandchildren. Seven of them, three of which are adopted. Seeing my sons as husbands and fathers is a joyful experience, even when they are all here together – that adds a lot of noise to the joy. One of my three granddaughters (the youngest) has an health issue that will keep her needing surgery for the next 10-15 years, so that keeps us on our toes a bit.

    Feel better now, knowing that I am not a grumpy person?? And for what it’s worth, I do appreciate your interaction with people who respond, whether they agree with you or not.

  • Brandon Roberts

    hi.

  • Happy Noodle Boy

    81% of White American Evangelicals went over to the Dark Side. Be sure to place the blame where it truly belongs.

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    You are quite right. Just didn’t want to bring the subject of race into a spiritual discussion. Thank you for your input though. 🙂

  • FrustratedGrace

    Thanks for your comments paganmegan…it made me smile…All the best, PK

  • Julian Holdsworth

    I run a podcast and Facebook community for the dechurched. Called dchurched.com (no ‘e’ after the d).. You can find it at http://dchurched.libsyn.com/ Feel free to join us.

  • Rafi Simonton

    Your argument is based on several hidden assumptions. An argument by authority– paradoxically not by quoting any well-known theologian or church official, but by implying you know exactly what constitutes community. Is it your immediate neighbors? Likely not. Is it those different people on the other side of town? Hardly ever. It’s also argument by assertion– that you know what God intends for every person.

    If you’re Protestant (including evangelical,) your “community” assembles at one building with people who look and act like you. If Catholic, you go to the same church as different ethnicities, but probably go to the service where they’re like you. If you’re Orthodox, you are part of a church that was built around national identities. And none of these think much of the others.

    The quarreling among church goers, theological disagreements over biblical passages or doctrine, and constant compromise with ruling authorities early on resulted in the monastic movement, those alone. Now known as the Desert Fathers and Mothers, whose wisdom is widely respected.

    As is not rare in the Pacific NW, I wasn’t raised with religion at all. Much to my great surprise, in my 40s a series of mystical encounters led me to take Christianity seriously. So much so I went to grad school in theology in my 50s. I respect the scholars and even love some of those who have dedicated their lives to some tradition. But ultimately, I could not go with their Procrustean bargain. I, too, left.

    You who have all the answers may see this as prideful disobedience. No. I listened to a calling you do not understand. One that sees so many ready-made answers as deficient. Were they not, the fastest growing demographic, especially among the young, would not be “spiritual not religious.” Who have been criticized for not wanting to do the hard work of religion. Yet it is being given the simple and certain answers by organizational authority that is easy. Never having to do the hard work of figuring out the details of faith, of having to live with ambiguity and uncertainty. But we who have wrestled with doubt, gone through darkness, found light, also find common cause with one another. Just because it is outside of a physical building does not mean it is not real, not community, not Christian. We are part of a Body; maybe the pineal gland, the right cerebellum, the left foot. Parts that are vital, but seldom recognized for what they contribute.

  • Everett Kier Jr

    you amuse me, the logic of self-centered individualism projected on to your “god” that is.

  • Rudy Schellekens

    Why would I quote a well know theologian or church official? All I have to do is read the text of the Bible. And yes, I do know what God intends for every person – because He told us such! If YOUR authority is based on “a calling…” we do not understand, then you re all by yourself, my friend, because none of us would be able to understand. Sounds a bit like Gnosticism to me: You have to be part of the club to really understand the Bible…

  • Steve

    I think if we are to follow holy scripture’s description of THE Antichrist, and the prophecies about him in the Book of Revelation, we should acknowledge that Trump is most likely NOT the Antichrist. He just doesn’t fit the profile and the eschatological timeline found in Revelation and Paul’s 2 Thessalonians epistle (as fuzzy and indistinct as that can be in terms of how people interpret it). I don’t believe that true followers of Christ will be here on earth during the reign of the Antichrist, as they will have been caught up with Christ and ascended to heaven at the rapture of His church. (Exception would be those who confess Christ after the rapture, and during the great Tribulation period.)

    HOWEVER, I think Trump clearly does fit the profile of the “many antichrists” and “many deceivers” that the apostle John spoke about (1 John 2:18, 1 John 4:3, 2 John 1:7, etc.), and Jesus’ own warning about “false prophets” (Matthew 24:24). Trump professes to follow Christ, yet has asserted that he has never done anything that he feels he needs to be forgiven for. (See video of Frank Luntz’s pre-election interview with Trump: “I don’t bring God into that picture. I don’t.”… Also the CNN pre-election interviews: “I don’t like to have to ask for forgiveness. And I am good. I don’t do a lot of things that are bad. I try to do nothing that is bad.” and “Why do I have to repent or ask for forgiveness, if I am not making mistakes?”) Therefore denying Christ while hypocritically, deceptively professing Him.

    So, I believe that Trump is very clearly a type of the Antichrist, one of the “many” that we have been warned about… perhaps one of the last highly influential forerunners of the Antichrist himself, an evil man who is (tragically) proving himself able to easily deceive and lead astray “even the elect.” Thus, the reason why I am such a frustrated Christian myself. There seems to be little I can do to cut through all the deception… Trumpian Christian believers seem to be held firmly in thrall by this evil deceiver. So… SAAAAAD!

  • Rafi Simonton

    So then you read Greek and Hebrew, know the historical and cultural context of the passages, and realize that neither OT nor NT fell fully formed out of the sky. Otherwise, it’s like reading a maintenance manual without understanding how the parts it refers to actually work. What became canon was the product of the decisions of authorities. Perhaps divinely inspired, but not entirely, given the huge fights. The NT took almost 800 years before it was finalized. I presume you’re some form of Protestant because of the emphasis on Bible. It’s called sola scriptura; the only thing the breakaways had in the 16th C since they couldn’t very well rely on Roman Catholic traditions and they knew nothing of the Eastern Orthodox, independent and equally as old.

    Do you recite the Nicene creed? You do know that most of it, including the Trinity as three co-equal persons and the dual nature of Christ as both divine and human, are not biblical at all. Note also that practices of the ecclesia, such as table fellowship, obviously pre-date the NT because they are mentioned in it.

    “Gnosticism” was never monolithic. There were “Gnosticisms;” for 300 years among the other perfectly acceptable variations of Christianity. Because what was or wasn’t “heresy” hadn’t been determined. Since it was those rejected Catholics and Orthodox who decided what was or wasn’t in the Bible, logically, Protestants should have been interested in non-canonical gospels. But again, Luther and Calvin didn’t know about them.

    Accusing someone of being a Gnostic because you don’t like what they said is an ad hominem argument. It was used for centuries, along with the charge of Manichaeism, as a theological way of dismissing a point without actually having to respond to it. That tactic hasn’t been used for over 50 years now among theologians.

    As for callings you do not understand, how about to Roman Catholic ordination or religious orders? How about as one of the eastern Orthodox monks on Mt. Athos? How about as LGBT clergy in the Episcopal church or United Church of Christ? Or do you only mean the limited version of one narrow sect?

  • Rudy Schellekens

    WOW! Not sure what the plan is with all of the above.
    Yes, I read Greek.
    No, I do not read Hebrew, but have a few friends who do.
    Yes, I am very familiar with the history/culture of both Old and New Testament.
    No, the NT was already formalized by the 5th century at the latest, it did not take 800 years.
    Yes, I am well aware of the meaning of Sola Scripture, Some days I feel so old that I could have been friends with Martin.
    No, I do not recite creeds.
    Yes, heresy was well determined in the writings of the New Testament.
    Yes, Paul and John both have references to Gnostic thinking.
    Yes, I read the Gnostic gospels, thanks to Dr. Elaine Pagels.
    No, I referred to your THINKING as Gnostic since you claim to have a calling no one understands.
    No, I did not ACCUSE you of being a Gnostic
    Yes, I do understand the Catholic ordination/orders. Grew up Catholic, you see.
    Yes, I am aware of orthodox monks, as well.
    And yes, I am aware of the LGBTQ+ clergy…

    So, if you have anything to add to the actual conversation???

  • Rafi Simonton

    By “you,” I actually mean you plural. The argument is with anyone and everyone who does not understand why those of us who have left church have done so. I never said “a calling no one understands.” Those callings I listed above are mutually exclusive to one another. Point is that “understanding” one means rejecting the others because they are for someone else’s church (or none)– the people who are wrong. We who are called outside of structures consider the insiders right in some sense, but wrong in their exclusivity.

    I gave evidence, presented a coherent argument, which has been mostly ignored. Where personal, it doesn’t matter. If those safe in dogma want to stay there, then we outside are nothing but noisome bothers who need not be acknowledged. But go check the Pew center polls on religion. As I said above, the “spiritual not religious” demographic is the fastest growing. It might be important to know why.

    PS– I did misspeak (or mistype) 800 years re: biblical canon. Approx. 500 is right, but remember the eastern and western churches do not use the exact same ones. Plus the Orthodox retained use of the Septuagint, actually older than the Masoretic Jewish Scriptures. So “settled” isn’t quite right. Then during the Reformation, the list changed again. What I meant to type was that doctrine (dogma) took about 800 years, the last ecumenical council being in 787.

  • Bill

    What then, are you ‘in it’ for?

  • Ocelot Aardvark

    While I appreciate your attempt to point me to some future “Rapture” … may I point you to this verse:

    Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” – Matthew 16:28:

    This passage of Scripture, leads one to believe that the Rapture already happened, before everyone in that multitude had time to die of natural causes.

    Some time around the end of the First Century; between Pentecost … and the end of the original Apostles’ ministries and lives … around the time of the Destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem … but before the original Christian Church, the “Bride of Christ” became the corrupted, apostate church, the “Harlot of Babylon” she has become down through the centuries.

    We are descended from those “Left Behind”. We ARE the Tribulation Saints.

  • FrustratedGrace

    Bill, it certainly isn’t sales, but if you need to tell yourself or others that, you are not reading. Perhaps if we get to be better acquainted, I will tell you. I think the way you started this conversation doesn’t warrant a quick answer. 🙂 like the photo of the family Bill! PK

  • Bill

    That was us thirty some years ago.
    What would you like to know about me. My profile is open.

  • Rudy Schellekens

    In your last response, you wrote, “By “you,” I actually mean you plural. ” So, below some quotes from your writings:

    “Your argument is based on several hidden assumptions….”
    “…by implying you know exactly what constitutes community…”
    “…that you know what God intends for every person…”
    “You who have all the answers…”
    “So then you read Greek and Hebrew…”
    “I presume you’re some form of Protestant…”
    “Do you recite the Nicene creed?”
    “…because you don’t like what they said is an ad hominem argument…”
    “Or do you only mean the limited version of one narrow sect?”

    Well, that all sounds like a singular you, addressed to me!

    And I quote once more…
    “I listened to a calling you do not understand.”
    So yes, you did claim to have a calling I do not understand.

  • FrustratedGrace

    Bill, why would you assume that someone is blogging just to make money? I still have a pastor’s heart and want to help people, that’s why I speak. It wouldn’t be worth it otherwise. The first book I wrote was exciting to me, lol. I thought EVERYONE would want it so I bought seven hundred copies myself and gave them away. That was about it for that book. I hope to encourage you in the future to hold your assumption and simply ask. Talking about me without talking to me doesn’t exactly engender trust. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and hoping that you aren’t the mud slinger you first appeared to be. 🙂 That’s why I wrote back. All the best Bill! PK

  • FrustratedGrace

    I love your heart Rafi, keep speaking..and making a difference. All the best! PK

  • Bill

    I do not believe I have ever “slung mud”. And I don’t begrudge an author compensation for their work.
    Do you think it matters to God how we worship?

  • Bill, if you don’t begrudge, why the initial comment that all I was writing for was to make money? You seem to be a contradiction. As far as worship and God, I will leave that between God and the individual who worships God. I believe that it is as intimate and personal a relationship as one could have.