San Francisco’s Dissident Catholics Just Won’t Give Up–Now Publish Open Letter to Pope Francis

San Francisco’s Dissident Catholics Just Won’t Give Up–Now Publish Open Letter to Pope Francis April 16, 2015

Archbishop Salvatore J. Cordileone - By Ffeeddee (Own work) [CC BY-SA 4.0 (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0)], via Wikimedia Commons
Archbishop Salvatore J. Cordileone
A group of more than 100 dissident Catholics in San Francisco have published an “open letter to Pope Francis” in today’s San Francisco Chronicle.

In a shocking display of bad etiquette, improper protocol, and ignorance of Catholic teaching, the full-page letter calls on Pope Francis to replace their archbishop, who dares to insist that Catholic schools consistently teach the Catholic faith.

The signers object to San Francisco Archbishop Salvatore Cordileone’s insistence upon a morality clause in teacher contracts. The clause calls for teachers to abide by the Catholic Church’s stance against things like sex outside of marriage and same-sex marriage.

The Archdiocese of San Francisco responded quickly to the ad.  According to CBS News, the statement reads:

“The advertisement is a misrepresentation of Catholic teaching, a misrepresentation of the nature of the teacher contract, and a misrepresentation of the spirit of the Archbishop. The greatest misrepresentation of all is that the signers presume to speak for ‘the Catholic Community of San Francisco.’ They do not.”

The Chronicle reports that among the signers’ objections to Archbishop Cordileone’s leadership, they complain that he:

  • Picked a pastor for Star of the Sea parish in the Richmond District “who marginalizes women’s participation in the church by banning girls from altar service” and who provided elementary-school children with a pamphlet about sexuality that asked whether they had masturbated, engaged in sodomy or undergone an abortion.*
  • Disregards the advice of his own priests and retired priests in favor of “a tiny group of advisers recruited from outside (the) diocese and estranged from their own religious orders.”
  • Threatens the long-term health of the archdiocese by adopting a “single-issue agenda” against same-sex marriage.

Archbishop Cordileone is chairman of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops’ Ad Hoc Committee for the Defense of Marriage. He is also a member of the USCCB Committee on Canonical Affairs and Church Governance. In addition to his extensive background in the area of the canonical understanding of marriage, he also brings experience in the work of preserving the definition of marriage as the union of one man and one woman in California.

He serves on the episcopal advisory board of the Institute for Religious Life, as well as the St. Gianna Physicians’ Guild. From 2006 through 2009, he served on the USCCB’s Committee on Catholic Education.

 

*Lest anyone believe that Archbishop Cordileone approves of teaching second-grade students about masturbation, let me remind you of SFGate’s February 18 report, explaining that the pastor at the parish where the pamphlet was distributed has since apologized.  The pamphlet was a routine Examination of Conscience, and it had escaped his attention that some of the sins mentioned might be beyond the comprehension level of a second-grade student.

 

Image:  Archbishop Salvatore J. Cordileone, By Ffeeddee (Own work) [CC BY-SA 4.0 (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0)], via Wikimedia Commons

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  • UAWildcatx2

    These people are not Catholics. If anything, they’re Episcopal. I never understand why people who are so opposed to what the Church remain *in* the Church.

    • Rob B.

      Because it’s far more fun throw stones at the cathedral’s windows from inside of it than from outside?

    • Perhaps they remain because, however wayward ALL of her children are at times, Holy Mother Church still loves them?

      I never understand why people who disagree about Church teachings think that their opponents should leave the Church and risk eternal damnation. At minimum, I’d think that Christian charity would demand that we pray that our wearisome siblings nevertheless stay in the family.

      • fredx2

        It’s hard to understand people who join the chess club so that they can protest playing chess.

        • I think the better analogy would people who join the chess club and then protest about the exact length of time allowed on the game clock.

          As far as I know, none of the signers of the newspaper ad have rejected their baptismal vows or the tenets of the Creed.

          To think that administrative matters of a school are equivalent to the essence of the Catholic faith–the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and his holy Resurrection, by which we are saved–is just absurd.

          • TerryC

            Living a moral life in conformance to the Magisterium of the Church is equivalent to the essence of the Catholic faith. The fact that people don’t seem to understand that is the problem.

          • The_Monk

            “… none of the signers of the newspaper ad have rejected their baptismal vows or the tenets of the Creed.You’re jesting, of course. The children have to be taught the truth or they will be lost. And teaching is more than just rote lecturing – it is also the example given by the people in authority….

          • Rob B.

            Indeed, great teachers teach more by example than by words… 🙂

        • cminca

          Chances are much higher that they didn’t “join” the chess club–they were born into it.

          Something tells me if a group of 100+ Catholics sent an open letter to the Pope about how “moderate” their Archbishop was you would all be singing a different tune.

          • Phil Steinacker

            Absurd! Your example will never occur.

            Your pathetic attempt to normalize this assault on this archbishop’s authority ignores that not one of the reasons for demanding his removal is consistent with a Catholic understanding of the Faith.

            These folks either are ignorant of the faith or they intentionally flout it in arrogance.

      • john

        If that is their train of thought, they will receive damnation, unless they confess and repent. Of course, charity demands we pray they come to their senses. In the meantime, however, they are the bad family members who have been locked out of the house until they reform. Anyone maintaining their agenda and actively pursuing it is an enemy of the Faith, even if they still choose to identify themselves as Catholic.

      • Rob B.

        I agree. At some level, they understand that Holy Mother Church is right. They rail against her, but they can’t get away from her.

      • Phil Steinacker

        That’s a legitimate pov, Nathaniel, but the folks under discussion not only challenge Church teaching but, far worse, cause scandal and confusion among many Catholics, with great potential top lead them into sin.

        I’d rather they stay and submit in humility, but I have great concern for those they lead into sharing their sinful dissent.

      • Howard

        They are risking eternal damnation no matter how often they go to church. The logic behind wanting them to leave is the logic behind excommunication, as mentioned by St. Paul: “By rejecting conscience, certain persons have made shipwreck of their faith, among them Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme” (1 Timothy 1:20, RSVCE)

        • And should their Bishop feel excommunication is warranted, his is the only competent authority to initiate that process. As far as I can tell, his Grace is not among the internet commenters who seem to want to make those declarations on his behalf.

          • Howard

            Which is why, if you looked ever so hard, you would notice that the claim is not being made here that they actually are excommunicated. The claim is that it would be better for everyone — including the dissidents — if they formally left the Church with which they disagree, and his Grace is not the only competent authority to have an opinion on such matters.

          • Howard

            Let me be a little more constructive.

            When I was an undergraduate, I knew a student who had some talent at math was on full scholarship. Unfortunately, he soon discovered that he also had a talent for drinking hard liquor all night and waking up without a headache, and this is the talent he put to greater use. His first semester he earned a D in calculus. All his other grades were F’s.

            As a result, the university placed him on academic probation. He came for his second semester, still on full scholarship, and this time made F’s in all his subjects. At that point he lost his scholarship and was thrown off campus for a minimum of 2 years.

            The goal of this expulsion was not to ruin his life. One goal was, however, to make him realize that he needed to be more serious and mature about his studies. Another goal was to prevent him from being a continuing bad influence on those around him.

            Now, I did not have the authority to impose that penalty on him, but even though he was my buddy, I understood the reason for it and approved. Meanwhile, the very prominent football program associated with my university has had recent trouble with some of the “student athletes” breaking the law. I would like to see those athletes treated the same way my buddy was treated, and for the same reasons. Again, this would not ruin their lives; if they aren’t in jail, they could find a school that would let them play, only they might not be on TV as often.

            As for my buddy? He eventually saved up enough money to come back to school on his own nickel … and he did the same thing all over again.

            I’m well within my rights to wish that law-breaking athletes would be sent packing, for everyone’s good. I’m also within my rights to wish my buddy had realized that if he’s not going to take school seriously but only wants to party, he should spend the tuition on a cruise instead. I don’t have the authority to make any of this happen, but it’s still not malice in either situation.

            The analogy between active participation in a university and active membership in the Church is, of course, obvious.

    • Romulus

      Because they belong to the devil and therefore serve his will.

      • I don’t feel I have the competence to judge the state of someone else’s soul based on a newspaper ad. But you are to be congratulated, sir, for your excellent discretio spiritum! Surely you must be a senior cleric in the CDF, where such keen spiritual insight is greatly to be valued! I bow before the awesome gifts that God has given you, to be able to know with such certainty, based entirely on a newspaper advertisement, that these Christians really “belong to the devil”!

        • Gui

          So much for self-awareness.

        • The snark levels! We’re off the charts! We’re getting into the Giga-snarks!

        • Phil Steinacker

          It does not take much to recognize demonic influence, especially since such devilry has been widespread and growing for some time.

          Your sarcasm only reveals your own obtuseness about this reality threatening the culture in general and the faith in particular.

    • Luket

      Jesus’ parable about weeds and wheat and preaching about love of enemies is very instructive here. I know it’s difficult but we need to let these people bring out the best in us -easier said than done…but possible with God’s help – and keep our sense of humor. These people behind this open letter will change nothing.

      • ThirstforTruth

        Valid and good point!

    • John Carlson

      They’ve already left the Church and they don’t know it.

    • Peter

      I think the key to understanding these people is to realize that they ask, “What is cool?” not “What is right or what does the Church teach? To them life is all about being cool and achieving human respect. For some reason in their circle being Catholic is cool but homosexual marriage is also cool. So either the make the Church accept homosexual marriage or they make homosexual marriage uncool. The latter isn’t going to happen so they want the Church to shut up so they can be Catholic and cool in front of their worldly yuppie friends. Remember we faithful Catholics are not cool.

      • If that’s what you believe then you do not know them at all.
        It isn’t about popularity. They feel the same passions and righteous fury that you do, sir, yet said passions are opposing yours. For them, they believe the church has erred, and love the church they grew up in or adopted later that they want to see her change, to be better than it is. So they keep striving for that change, because their faith, their passions direct them to do so.

        There is no one expression of Catholicism in the modern age. Yes we have core doctrines, and yes there are incorruptible points, but no one has the same mind and faith about each and every detail. Even practices of the faith can vary regionally, as prayer, the Mass, etc. adapts somewhat to the local flavor. (if nothing else, the local languages.)

        Just as there are differences between Benedictines, Franciscans, Jesuits, etc. in how they approach their values, their approaches, their pedagogy, so too within the layity.

        Kindly don’t dismiss everyone else, sir.

        • Rob B.

          This is naivete at its most destructive. These dissidents are calling for changes in “core doctrines,” most notably on human sexuality and morality. To compare what these people want to the different practices of the monastic orders you list is disingenuous at best.

        • AnneG

          The Catholic Church does not believe in the truth as you know it. There is one truth. Sometimes the train is so far off the track, it takes a long time to get it back on and working again. I think that is where San Francisco is. We do not get to pick our own doctrine. If you want to do that, go join the Episcopal Church where they vote on stuff.
          The Catholic Church is guided by the Holy Spirit in matters of faith and morals and doctrines do not change. What these folks are talking about are not matters of prudential judgment, so, no, they will not change, no matter how sincere the dissenters are.
          Sodomy and adultery have never been condoned. They are sins.

          • You make a lot of preconceptions about me, you know that?

            Did I say I agreed with them, or with you for that matter? All I said is that they’re being true to their own perception of their faith.

            But if you want to play at gatekeeper and slander other Catholics without understanding why they act the way they do, far be it from me to stop you.

          • Phil Steinacker

            That’s right! Go scurrying for cover when good folks read your “balanced” comments. Fact is, you outed yourself.

          • Iacomus

            The second Commandment is not greater than the first. You serve neither God nor neighbor by encouraging disobedience.

          • AnneG

            I did not slander you. I disagreed with you. I am not a gate keeper. Merely relaying what the CCC says. You slander and make false accusations about me.
            Also, it does not matter what you sincerely believe if you are sincerely and absolutely wrong. It is very serious if you are in moral error. There are certain sins that are always intrinsically evil, sodomy is one.
            The dissident Catholics are trying to bully the Church. She will not be bullied.

        • Deker71

          AnonCollie: I disagree. These people do not want to see the church better than it is. They are filled with pride, and despise authority. Brian Cahill has been championing the adoption of children by homosexual couples even though this deprives them of a mother or father. The homosexuals can’t even agree who is the better parent – men or women. How do you think these children in same-sex homes feel when they see other children playing with their mother and father. It’s in the child’s genes to want to know and be loved by their mother and father. That’s why sodomy is one of the four serious sins that cry to heaven for vengeance.

          From 2 Peter: “He knows, especially how to treat those who live for the flesh in their desire for whatever corrupts and who despise authority.”

        • Phil Steinacker

          Your apologia is pure bunk Not one of the complaints cited in their public demand is compatible with Church teaching – much of it on the level of unchangeable dogma and doctrine.

          It isn’t that the Church has erred – that, in fact, is IMPOSSIBLE. What has occurred instead is the errors which rend their own hearts. They conflate their personal desires with a watered down, ego-centric version of Catholicism which is heretical.

          Your attempt to dignify the garbage spewed from their mouths is pathetic and false. Your comment reads like a passionate endorsement of the falsehoods put forth by these faux catholycs, so you’ll forgive me if I call you out as totally in agreement with their positions and in sympathy with their arrogant disobedience against the legitimate authority of the SF archbishop.

      • cminca

        “I think the key to understanding these people is to realize that they ask, “What is cool?” not “What is right or what does the Church teach?”

        I’d say the key to understanding these people is to realize they believe that the Archbishop has spend the last two years being as “unchristian” as an Archbishop can be. That he is doing real harm to the church in SF and he likes to take his particular hate show on the road.

        This is the guy who set sprinklers up in order to wash away the homeless–THE HOMELESS–sleeping in the church door.

        Tell me–how do you think Jesus would react to that?

        And the signers of the letter–who tried, and failed, to go through established channels–are trying to notify the man in charge.

        Do you condemn whistleblowers for notifying the brass when their bosses are acting in ways that harm the company? Or do you listen to them and investigate.

        If a shepherd purposely drives sheep out of his flock–do you blame the shepherd or do you blame the neighbor who notifies the farmer?

        Again–if this was 100 people claiming he was too moderate I’m thinking that all of you would be singing from a different hymnal.

        • Korou

          And when the story about the sprinklers came out on this blog the general reaction was: “Quite right! Get those dirty druggies off our front porch!”

          Also, your last comment is 100% right.

        • Phil Steinacker

          Those homeless had been defecating and urinating daily in that space for months. For most of them the sprinkler system was the only “shower” they ever got, although flushing out the excrement and the odor was the primary purpose and effect.

          • Korou

            Your Christian charity and kindliness shines through in every word.

        • HughieMc

          “I think the key to understanding these people is to realize that they ask, “What is cool?” not “What is right or what does the Church teach?”
          You are absolutely spot on. Which is precisely why it is a travesty that these people still call themselves Catholics. The first thing a Catholic does in any morally challenging position is ask: What does the Church teach? NOT “Hey, what’s cool?” It is called “informing one’s conscience”.

          • Korou

            False dichotomy. The first thing that anyone should ask is “what is the right thing to do?”
            It’s most disrespectful to these protesters to imply that they are not sincere in their objections to Archbishop Cordileone. “Hey, what’s cool?” indeed!

          • HughieMc

            I referred to a practising Catholic finding himself in “any morally challenging position”. I assumed that it would be obvious enough that this meant a situation where what was the right thing to do would not be immediately obvious. The easy thing to do might be self-evident but that, in any difficult situation, is not usually likely to be the right thing to do (although it just might). The Bad Boy of Baltimore comes to mind: “To every complex problem there is a solution which is simple, neat and wrong.” That is precisely when the genuinely devout and practising Catholic asks: “What does the Church teach?” Yeh, I know, how uncool is that!

          • Korou

            The only person who cares about being cool or not is you, Hughie. The protestors are concerned with doing the right thing, and with being good and decent humans. Which they feel the Archbishop is trying to stop them from being.

          • HughieMc

            Nonsense on all fronts. You cannot argue on the facts of the matter since you have no grasp of the principles at stake: so they are the good guys and the archbishop and people like me who support him are the bad guys. Goodbye.

          • Korou

            The sad thing is, with an attitude like that you’re not going to get a chance to learn how to be a good guy.
            But then cutting off arguments you’re losing is getting to be your signature move, Hughie.

          • HughieMc

            This has ceased to be a discussion. All you do is state you are right and I, and those who regard this matter as I do, am wrong. Where does that get us? I could state that I query your presumption that these people are “concerned with doing the right thing… being good and decent human beings”. That I would contend that all they are interested in is maintaining, indeed enhancing, their status as supporters of the Democratic Party willing, like Teddy Kennedy and Nancy Pelosi, to sell their souls for a mass of potage. I could ask you a simple factual question: In way precisely is Archbishop Cordileone stopping them being good and decent people by doing what he received episcopal consecration to do: In season and out, preach and teach the Catholic Faith and with diligence and prudence govern and lead those entrusted to his pastoral care? (All of them, not just the rich and powerful.)

            But what would be the point? At no point above have you dealt with any of the points I have made:

            (1) False dichotomy/disrespectful: doesn’t address let alone answer what I have said.

            (2) The only person who cares about being cool is me? Wrong. It was Peter (above) who introduced that term into the discussion not me. I only used it as a rhetorical device. It isn’t an expression much used amongst people my age n the West of Scotland except from some old friends who spent the late 1960s and all of the 1970s doped up on pot. And, moreover,you didn’t address the issue.

            So why should I waste my time with this? The famous Glasgow Celtic have an important game in 20 minutes, the Scottish Cup semi-final, so I am off to the pub to enjoy it (hopefully).

            I thank Elizabeth Argue for these details which others may tink relevant:

            Charles Geschke (chairman of Adobe Systems and previously head of the Board of Trustees at the University of San Francisco)

            – Donated over $200,000 to the Democratic Congressional campaign committee

            – $40,000 in support of the Democratic National Committee

            – $2,300 in support of Nancy Pelosi, who claims to be Catholic but openly supports abortion

            – $4,000 in support of John Kerry, another Catholic who supports abortion

            Clint Reilly (political consultant and businessman)

            – Contributed $25,000 to the Democratic Congressional Campaign in 2006

            – $28,500 to the Democratic Congressional Campaign in 2008.

            – $5,000 in support of Barack Obama, who has consistently opposed religious liberty

            – $4,600 to Nancy Pelosi

            – $5,000 to the Democratic National Committee in 2014

            Lou Giraudo (former city commissioner and business executive)

            -Contributed to over $24,000 to Nancy Pelosi

            – $6,000 to Dianne Feinstein

            – $4,300 to Barbara Boxer

          • Korou

            Congratulations on getting the last word. As you are obviously not going to read this, I shall not bother correcting you.
            In all seriousness: enjoy your game.

          • Iacomus

            Do you not think it disrespectful to imply the Archbishop is insincere in his fidelity to Christ and His Body? No, you cry ‘bigot’ and ‘hypocrite’. Yes, what’s the right thing to do? The answer is fidelity to Christ. This rejection of God’s Word on the part of these protestants is sincere because they have chosen darkness over Light. Have you not heard, ‘whoever loves the world makes himself an enemy of God’? Jesus says; “From within people, from their hearts, come evil thoughts, unchastity, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, licentiousness, envy, blasphemy, arrogance, folly. All these evils come from within and they defile.” (cf.Mk7:21-23) You might want to read Romans ch1 and Rev. 21 for a refresher. He calls us to Light but Love can’t be forced. He calls us Who is Truth Itself, the choice is ours but we don’t choose the terms. Why don’t you understand?

          • Korou

            Truthfully, I did have a little trouble understanding that comment. Quite a lot of it was unclear.
            The basic point, though, is this: yes, the Archbishop is a bigot and a hypocrite. I don’t think that this is disrespectful, it’s accurate. It would be insulting to imply that the Archbishop was doing this out of greed, for example, as there’s no evidence that he is. And although I’d disagree, I wouldn’t feel it was insulting to the protestors to characterise them as deceived and deceivers. But to imply that they’re insincere in their protests – yes, I think that is insulting.

          • Iacomus

            It’s always perplexing to see folk launch perjoratives which apply to themselves. You complain of insults while insulting, accuse hypocrisy and bigotry without seeing your own. You’re either not Christian or have no shame or sense of sin since I see below you profane the Name of our Sovereign Lord and accuse Him of sin. I pray your conversion and that you feel sorrow for your sin and be reconciled to God. You spoke of the protesters being good and decent… by what standard? No one has a right to a child. Every child has a right to Mother and Father. This is not bigotry but fact. But those who are ‘devoid of the Spirit’ (cf.Jd), who ‘walk by their own light’ (cf.Is50) will never understand.

          • Korou

            You’re living in a fantasy land. Come back to reality. Join us in the world where people protest being discriminated against and being forced to discriminate against others. Look at what the protesters -these good catholic people – say they’re angry about. Try going beyond thinking that the protesters are wrong because any protest is wrong. The church can make mistakes and people’s objections deserve better than being hand waved away.

  • MillerJM

    I love the projection that is going on here. This issue is probably 1 of a 1000 different things that the Bishop deals with on a daily basis. Yet these folks claim he has a single issue agenda. They are obviously the ones obsessed. Get over it people.

    • Pete the Greek

      It is a lot like the crowd on the NCR, where they claim that the Catholic Church’s teaching is obsessed with sex, but that’s only because that’s pretty much all THEY (the ncr crowd) post articles on or comment about.

      • MillerJM

        There is a great joke about this with the old Rorschach Inkblot Test. A psychologist is given the test to a patient, holds up an inkblot, asks the patient what he sees, and the patient says “I see a woman’s privates.” He then holds up another inkblot, again asks the patient what he sees, and the patient again says “I see a woman’s privates.” One last time, he holds up an inkblot and the patient says the same thing. The psychologist says, “I think you are obsessed with sex.” The patient responds “You’re the one who keeps holding up all the dirty pictures.” My guess is that patient works for the NCR 🙂

      • Phil Steinacker

        Two of the commenters immediately above hail from the community of left-wing jokers hanging at the NCR. Even if their pseudonyms weren’t recognizable, you could tell by their use of the same foolish rhetoric found there.

  • HughieMc

    “The pamphlet was a routine Examination of Conscience, and it had escaped his attention that some of the sins mentioned might be beyond the comprehension level of a second-grade student.” Would it be unChristian to add that doubtless the pamphlet would also have been “beyond the comprehension” of many of the signers of the ad? Examination of conscience? What’s all that about? What has my conscience got to do with anyone, especially a priest or archbishop?

    • Phil Steinacker

      You nailed it, and that thought occurred to me as well. These folks haven’t given much thought to such things in years – if they were taught in SF anytime in the last 50 years.

  • Vigilant2

    Where are the hungry lions when you need them … ?

  • Korou

    How interesting. Well, first of all, hooray for these concerned citizens who have decided that being a Catholic is no reason to ignore bigotry and intolerance when it’s poisoning your community.
    It’s just another example of what’s been plain for years. The official policy of the Roman Catholic Church is set against basic human morality and decency, and most Catholics simply disagree with it. Most Catholics understand perfectly well what constitutes decent and moral behaviour, and recognise that Cordileone is working against it.
    The letter says that Cordileone has “fostered an attitude of division and intolerance”? Well yes, that’s exactly what he’s done and they are quite right to ask the Pope to take this bigot out of their lives.

    • Dominick

      The Archbishop is in good company:
      Do you think that I have come to establish peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division. From now on a household of five will be divided, three against two and two against three; a father will be divided against his son and a son against his father, a mother against her daughter and a daughter against her mother, a mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.

      • Korou

        What was it Jesus also said? “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, hypocrites.” If Jesus were to come back today he would certainly not be an Archbishop, nor have kind words for their stony-heartedness.

        • MillerJM

          There are many things wrong with what little you said here. First, the scripture you quote was regarding the Pharisees who professed to have virtues, morals, principles, etc. that their actions did not demonstrate. The Archbishop is not condemning ANYONE with his actions or professing to have any moral superiority. All he is saying is if you want to teach in a Catholic school, you can’t go out and publicly oppose the teaching of the Church. I pay for my kids to go to Catholic school – if I found out one of the teachers was publicly undermining the schools mission and did nothing about it, I’d wonder why the heck I was spending so much money for my kids to go to that school. So your choice of scripture is completely not applicable. Similarly, the Archbishop is not behaving stone hearted – he is a merciful and kind man who would welcome any good willed individual to worship in the diocese he oversees, loves sinners, and would be willing to forgive anyone. Again, all he is is saying if you want to teach in a Catholic school, you can’t go out and publicly oppose the teaching of the Church.

          I think you need to have a gander at the Mass readings for this Sunday.
          “Those who say, “I know him,” but do not keep his commandments are liars, and the truth is not in them. But whoever keeps his word, the love of God is truly perfected in him.”
          So let me ask you, is John “the Beloved Disciple” being a hypocrite or stony-hearted in your opinion? No, rather those who condemn the Archbishop and the Truth of the Church are the liars that do not know Christ. They love to claim the Archbishop is acting unchristian, when their understanding of Christianity is limp sentimentality and faux tolerance (for they only tolerate those who confirm their own ideas). Sentimentality is not love and tolerance is not a virtue – unless you want to lecture Jesus about not being tolerant of the Pharisees and money changers?

          • Korou

            Wow, the Archbishop sounds like a really nice guy. I wonder what he could have done to make the whole city turn against him and describe him as an anti-Christian troublemaker?
            Also, good for Jesus not being tolerant of the money changers and Pharisees. If he were to come back today no doubt he would have similar harsh things to say about their modern day equivelants. Who do you think those would be? Corrupt bankers and hypocritical church leaders.

          • Dominick

            Here’s an incident that was never recorded in the Gospels:
            “Jesus chuckled warmly, ‘Don’t change a bit, brother, I love you just the way you are.’
            He had pretty hard words for everybody. He was not a very nice Man.

          • Korou

            Well, Jesus was probably secretly gay anyway. It would explain why he hung around with so many men and never got married.

        • Phil Steinacker

          So easy to spew foolishness.

          • Korou

            Looking through this thread, I am inclined to agree. But don’t take it up with me; take it up with the majority of practicing Catholics who reject the Church’s teaching as cruel and inhumane.

        • Dominick

          He had a lot worse things to say about them, but He prefaced His most abusive tirade with, “The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses. Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you,but do not follow their example.”

          Jesus is an authoritarian. Always has been at least since the time of Noah. He has always related to the human race through an established chain of human authority.
          In that regard he saves a more troubling critique of those people who refuse to accept the teaching of those to whom he has granted authority. Upon granting the Apostles authority to work in His Name, they were sent to the “lost sheep of Israel” to preach His kingdom to those who would listed. But “[w]hoever will not . . .listen to your words — go outside that house or town and shake the dust from your feet. Amen I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgement than for that town.”

          That last part is Jesus-speak for “then to hell with them.” He is an extremely judgmental Man.

          • Korou

            I guess you can find whatever you like if you search through the Bible long enough. Feel free to believe that Christ was teaching you to fear, judge and hate others if you must.

          • Dominick

            No it really doesn’t take very long. What said above is pretty much a recurring theme of every chapter of every book Genesis through Revelation. Everything you posit here about ‘what Jesus would do if He was here today’ directly contradicts the actual image of Christ provided in the Gospels.
            As for the fear and hate – I have not advocated either.
            Judgment on he other hand is a looming certainty for all of us and giving witness to that fact is a Christian’s foremost responsibility. He will judge us all one day.

        • Dominick

          And Jesus would not be an Archbishop because he outranks Archbishops. You might say that his authoritarianism gets in the way.
          Those with teaching authority below that of a bishop (i.e. the vast bulk of humanity) are expected to obey the words of the their divinely granted authority.

          • Korou

            Well,that’s certainly what the bishops would like. As usual, the argument from the hierarchy and its defenders: don’t think for yourself, do as we say.

    • Mark J. Quinn

      Why is it that defenders of the Catholic faith are always called “bigots”?

      • Rob B.

        Because name-calling is always fun, especially when, deep down, you know that you are wrong…

        • Korou

          Because they’re bigoted.

          • Phil Steinacker

            That’s why we know homosexual activists and their straight allies as fascists – because they are.

          • Korou

            Some advice: avoid history. You might have a nasty shock when you encounter some real fascists and find that they felt much the same about homosexuals as you do.

          • Rob B.

            Here’s the key difference: they rounded them up and killed them, whereas we want them to recognize their sin and repent, just like the rest of us.

          • Korou

            Right now, the Catholic Church has more or less no temporal power. So if you did want to round up and kill gays you wouldn’t be able to anyway. But when we look back in time to when the Catholic Church actually did have the power to persecute, torture and execute we see it’s a different story.
            Catholics today are all different, of course, as you say.

            Or are they? I’ve been reading these comments for a while. Gays are referred to as perverts, filthy sodomites, a cancerous blight on society that is dragging us down to hell. If we were to take, say, a Nazi tract about the Jews and swap a few words around I’m not sure we’d be able to tell the difference. I’m serious – the hatred on these comment threads is disturbing.

          • Dominick

            Where? The words “perverts”, “filthy”, “sodomite”, “cancer[ous]”, and “blight” appear only in this one post.

          • Korou

            Oh, they’ve been used plenty of times on this blog in the last few weeks.
            Are you admitting that if that was the way commenters talked about gay people it would be a bad thing?

          • Dominick

            Reducing the totality of a person’s humanity to a single variable is always a bad thing. The adjective “homosexual” as referring to a person or class of persons should therefore be considered just as demeaning.

          • Korou

            What? Like “I’m a Catholic”?
            It’s perfectly appropriate to describe people as homosexuals, depending on the context. It would be wonderful to live in a world – and hopefully one day we will – in which nobody needs to refer to their sexuality because nobody cares. But we don’t. We live in a world in which the reaction to the statement “I’m gay and I’m happy about that” by far too many people is “You are a sinner, a bad person, a follower of Satan and the cause of our country’s problems.”
            People identifying as gay is wonderful – in this context of discrimination – because it has the effect of making people realise that there’s nothing wrong with gays. Of course you’d like them to stop.

          • Dominick

            “I’m Catholic” identifies the speaker as an adherent to a specific discipline of a specific God; in this case, the One God Who created all things, the promotion of Whose glory is the sole purpose of the Catholic’s existence. The Catholic God is the sole reason for the Catholic’s existence.
            So the expressions “I’m Catholic” and “I’m Homosexual” are apples and oranges, unless one views Homosexuality as the god whose glory is the sole purpose of the one’s existence.

          • Korou

            Statements like “I’m a Catholic,” “I’m gay,” “I’m married,” “I’m a shopkeeper,” and “I’m a housewife” are all perfectly useful labels which we need in order to function optimally. when you say that gay people reduce the totality of a person’s humanity to a single variable, I’m starting to think you don’t know many gay people.
            Yes, “I’m Catholic” does indeed identify the speaker as an adherent to a specific discipline of a specific God.” “I’m a happily married man” identifies the speaker as not available for extra-marital relations. “I’m a teacher” identifies the person as someone who knows about education.
            And “I’m gay” identifies a person who is attracted to the same sex. It’s a useful thing to be able to say in a number of situations related to romance, love and discrimination. But who makes it the totality of their humanity? Nobody I know.
            Truthfully, I’m not sure what your point is, and I have a feeling you’re not either.

          • Dominick

            Very well.

          • Dominick

            And they felt much the same about the teaching authority of the Church as you do. At least the German ones did. William Shirer posited that homosexuality was rampant within the Party hierarchy.

          • Korou

            I’m sure he did.
            Isn’t it interesting that the first thing that both Mussolini and Hitler did on coming to power was to sign an agreement with the Catholic Church, which was happy to give up it’s opposition to fascism in return for privileges.

          • Dominick

            I don’t know that is an accurate description of the time, but let’s pretend that it is. You apparently find it improper that church leaders would assuage and pander to brokers of worldly power.

          • Korou

            Well, we aren’t just talking about any world power leaders. We’re talking about fascists, who have a rather worse reputation that, say, 1920’s Britain or 1960’s France. Don’t you think the idea of cooperating with two of the most evil regimes ever is a bit of a black mark on the Church’s record?
            And by the way: yes, it’s quite true that both Hitler and Mussolini began their rise to power by officially allying themselves with the Catholic Church.
            Back to the main point, though: it’s ridiculous to call homosexuals and advocates of gay rights “fascists” when the fascists were the very ones who wanted to exterminate them.

          • Dominick

            So when these movements were simply annoying outspoken self-promoters, the Church should have condemned them and used whatever means was necessary to keep them suppressed?
            At any rate Church or no Church these men rose to power by the will of the people.
            In what way did the Church assist Maoist China or Soviet Russia? Each of these regimes accomplished body counts beyond the facists’ wildest dreams.

          • Korou

            Dominick, you don’t know your history. Because that is exactly what the Church tried to do. Until the fascists came to power political parties serving the Catholic Church were extremely active in working against them. Then, when they did come to power, the Church saw that it could get even more influence by striking a deal with the Fascists and the Nazis, which it promptly did.
            Again: Catholics shouldn’t label gays fascists. Catholics were allied with them, and it was gay people who were persecuted by them.
            As for Maoist China and Soviet Russia? Apples and oranges. Not sure why you mentioned them.

          • Dominick

            What do you mean by “exactly what the Church did”? Condemn fascist ideology before it gained ascendency?
            If so, then how do you understand that fascist ideologues gain power in these countries?
            I suspect that a men starving to death in gulags, farm collectives, and concentration camps find it hard to distinguish the taste of apples and oranges.

          • Korou

            There’s no real need for us to discuss it here. Read a history book and you’ll find out plenty about the political climate in 1920s and 1930s Italy and Germany, the ways in which Catholic parties were active, the rise of fascist and Nazi groups, and the ways in which they brokered deals with the Catholic Church after they came to power.

          • Dominick

            Which history book do you recommend?

          • Korou

            Any good text on the rise of fascism will cover it.

          • Dominick

            Which one?

          • Korou

            Any one. Who cares? It’s established history. Look it up.

    • Hart Ponder

      “Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ” (CCC 133)
      2 Timiothy 3:16,17 shows part of our duties as Christians is to reprove, exhort and correct. This is called a “good work”.

      We must not use God’s love and Grace as an excuse to sin, or publicly promote our sinful inclinations, it is a distraction to our true work at hand (Matthew 28:19,20).

      “For admission has been secretly gained by some who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly persons who pervert the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.” (Jude 4).

    • Josh

      Korou, you are either misguided, uninformed or simply naive to state, “Most Catholics understand perfectly well what constitutes decent and moral behavior.” That’s a fat generalization or stereotype – like saying most African Americans are Southern Baptists or most Asians are religious.
      Also, Catholic bashing like, “The official policy of the Roman Catholic Church is set against basic human morality and decency” only reveals your anti-Catholicism bigotry – which is hatred at its root – like all bigotry. Who made you judge?

      • Korou

        Sorry, Josh – what I say is simply based on surveys of Catholics worldwide, which show that they disagree with most of the Vatican’s positions, including on divorce, contraception and even abortion. It’s not hatred, nor bigotry; it’s an objective fact that more Catholics agree with me than you.
        And by the way, don’t you have a low opinion of your fellow Catholics when you disagree with me saying they are moral people!

        • Josh

          No, I don’t know who you are exactly talking about – when you refer to “your fellow Catholics”. If they stand for the Truth, I commend and encourage them, if they oppose the Truth – I pray for them. The Truth has no survey or poll. It stands on its own merits, Korou. In fact, Truth exists in nature through Natural Law ( which by the way – stands in opposition to homosexuality and promotion thereof).

          • Korou

            When you say that the truth stands on its own merits, I agree with you. And the truth is that there is nothing intrinsically sinful or wrong about homosexuality or contraception. I’ve debated these with Catholics before, and have never found any convincing arguments against them that are not based on personal distate or baseless religious dogma.

            You are free to believe what you like, of course, but the fact is: most of your fellow Catholics disagree with you. They have heard the arguments of the Catholic Church and rejected them. And they’re right to do so; the arguments are demonstrably false. You can say they are an objective truth based in Natural Law, but more and more people are realising that they’re not and they aren’t.

  • Ralph E. Stone

    I am not a Roman Catholic. It is well-known that the Catholic Church is against, among other things, same-sex marriage, abortion, homosexuality, and treats women abominably. Archbishop Cordileone is merely enforcing well-estasblished church doctrine albeit in a mean-spirited manner. Pope Francis espouses the same tenets but in a nice, friendly way. As a result, every one loves Pope Francis but too many loath Archbishop Cordileone. Perhaps the Archbishop needs some lessons in niceness. If members of the Roman Catholic Church do not agree with the tenets of Catholicism and find relevance in an organized religion, perhaps they should look elsewhere for spiritual guidance until the Roman Catholic church changes. But you and I know this is unlikely.

    • Korou

      There’s nothing intrinsically Catholic about these doctrines. There’s no particular reason why homosexuality has to be considered a sin. The Church could simply decide to change its mind about this and other doctrines, as it has about other issues in the past. Until it does, though, it will continue to bleed members as more and more people realise that the Catholic Church does not represent the values of goodness and kindness that they do.

      • TerryC

        I’m sorry but in kindness your knowledge of both history and theology are nonexistent.
        The duality of the human race in male and female, its marital relationship, by which the two become one in marriage, and the reflection of that marital relationship with the relationship between Christ and his Church are deeply built within the DNA of the Catholic Church. It would literally be impossible to change.
        Homosexuality will always be a sin, because any sexual interaction outside the sacrament of marriage is a sin and by its nature marriage requires the presence of a man and a woman.
        The Church has never changed one of its doctrines. If you think it has you either don’t understand what a doctrine is, or you are mistaken about what you think the position of the Church has been on that doctrine.
        As for goodness and kindness. It is not kind to lie to someone and tell them their immoral behavior is acceptable. It is certainly not kind to tell them their ultimate fate will be good, when their decisions are fated to make it anything but good.
        Finally the Church does not teach the truth so that it will be popular, or increase its membership, like a club or political organization. It teaches the same truth now as it did 2000 years ago. For most of that time it has been unpopular (at least with the political leadership and social elite) and has been persecuted and its members martyred. That has been the constant. So if you believe that the Church that saw Stephen stoned in the first century, Thomas More beheaded in the fifteenth century, and

        José Dionisio Luis Padilla Gómez shot in the twentieth century, will change its doctrine because it is unpopular you obviously don’t have an understanding of reality.

        • Korou

          The Church has never changed its mind? Does it then still teach that Limbo exists or that it is right to burn heretics alive? Are books still on a Prohibited list? When the Pope made his famous apologies for the Catholic mistakes, do you mean that they were not in fact mistakes?
          Your rationalisation for the Church’s stance on homophobia is nothing more than that, I’m afraid. basically identical to that of many other religions, many of which have changed their views on homosexuality? How? All they had to do was say “Sorry, we were wrong before and we now recognise that there’s nothing intrinsically sinful about being gay.”
          Of course, in practice this might be difficult for the Catholic Church, which has made a career out of not changing. But is has in the past, and we can hope that it will again in the future.
          The fact is, it’s the majority of Catholics who disagree with you. Have you seen the recent survey of Catholic worldwide? It makes interesting reading. 60% of US Catholics think divorce should be allowed; 79% think contraceptives should be allowed; 54% think gay marriage should be allowed.
          Now of course you can say that it doesn’t matter what people think, truth is truth and the hierachy determines what is true. But that’s just not so. The Catholic Church is the Catholic people. And these people are realising more and more that the Catholic policies are simply not right.

          • merengue

            People’s opinions have no bearing on the Truth, which is immutable. The Church is in the business of the Truth. As people become less and less versed in basic philosophical principles they will tend to fall more and more in line with the materialism, hedonism, and meretriciousness of the world. All your examples above of the Church changing its doctrines are poor and do not apply, and I exhort you to study them seriously.
            Forget it if you think the Church will ever change regarding its beliefs on the teleology of sexuality. Its teachings are profound, beautiful and true.
            My prayers are with the dissenters and the Archbishop.

          • Korou

            I’m sorry you feel that way. You’re in a minority. Materialism, hedonism and meretriciousness have nothing to do with Catholic objections to the hierachy’s heartless and insensitive rules. They spring from human decency, compassion and common sense.

          • Phil Steinacker

            Authentic Catholic Christians have ALWAYS been the minority. At the height of the Arian Heresy, over 80% of the bishops (including the Bishop of Rome – Pope Liberius) were open heretics supporting Arianism.

            Authentic Catholicism prevailed over them and will do so now. We do not care what polls and surveys say.

          • Korou

            But you do. It’s a growing worry to the Catholic Church that people are simply drifting away from it. We see it all the time. Blog posts, articles, announcements…what can we do to reverse the trend of shrinking masses?
            The answer is obvious, of course, but it would mean the Catholic Church doing something it is extremely reluctant to do: admit that it is wrong.

          • Phil Steinacker

            Running your mouth as you do continues to reveal your ignorance. Unfortunately, you packed too many falsehoods and irrelevancies in your rant for me to waste my valuable time to parse, explain, and refute. It’s a waste because previous combox experience has proven that when a commenter tosses around irrelevant or erroneous claims, it does no good to take such time because all work is dismissed airily with a wave of the hand.

            Besides, folks at this site – being far more knowledgeable than you – will easily recognize the fullness of your ignorance.
            Imagine believing that the percentage of Catholics who hold erroneous secular views contradicting the Church matters one whit! If you don’t like Church teaching, no one is keeping you here. However, don’t expect the Church to cave into your nonsense.

            Better people than you and your ilk have thought they would defeat the Church, and everyone of them and their governments are dead and gone, and the Church remains.

          • Korou

            Oh, but it’s not people like me. It’s people like you. It’s the majority of Catholics who reject the Church’s teachings. And that majority is growing. How long will it be before you don’t have a Church left?
            Do feel free to tell me that the Church has survived the worst that Satan can throw at it for the last two thousand years. I’ll just be off rereading some of those Catholic Patheos articles on what we can do to reverse the alarming trend of shrinking attendance at masses.

          • Dominick

            If you really believed that, then you wouldn’t care enough about the Archbishop’s actions to be commenting.

          • Josh

            Do you have any idea of the 1st Century Christians (from whom the believing Catholic Church descends) were nearly brought to extinction by being HOUNDED, PERSECUTED, TAKEN, TORTURED, AND SUMMARILY PUT TO DEATH. There WERE FEW remaining (relatively speaking) when Christians emerged from the waves of persecutions. Many also renounced Jesus Christ under pressure. Have you heard of the term – “faithful remnant”? What does that even mean to you? It is predicted that there will be FEW who believe as the ages unfold. We are now 2000+ years after Christ. We are still here, but the faithful remnant are indeed dwindling! Lord, save us from this wicked generation!

          • Korou

            The problem is that the majority of Catholics who disagree with you are good people. They’re not a wicked generation. They have simply followed their instinct for goodness and determined, among other things, that:

            – there’s nothing intrinsically evil about contraception

            – there’s nothing wrong with getting divorced
            – there’s nothing wrong with two people who love each other getting married.

            I’m sorry, but you’re not living in Sodom and Gomorrah. Nobody is going to HOUND, PERSECUTE, TAKE, TORTURE AND EXECUTE YOU. Your enemies aren’t demons, they’re normal humans, and the Church would be better for accepting that.

      • AnneG

        Marriage is between one man and one woman. That is Catholic doctrine and will never change, no matter what.
        Abortion is an intrinsic evil and human life has intrinsic value from conception to natural death. That’s another.
        Btw, Did Arius or Pelagius sign that letter? They would feel really comfortable with it, as would Mani.

        • Korou

          Sorry, can’t answer the last question. As to the others…
          Marriage can only ever be between one man and one woman? Well, we’ll see. the millenium is young yet.
          Also, human life has intrinsic value from conception? Tell me, have you ever heard the story about the man in a burning hospital?

          • Phil Steinacker

            You make lousy arguments, but the best part of your answer is your revelation that you have no clue about the names mentioned by AnneG. You are no more than an empty modernist with no argument of substance to advance in this exchange.

          • Korou

            Fascinating that you think the dwindling numbers of Catholics is not an interesting point to make. More and more Catholics are turning against you. The number of Catholics who agree with you is shrinking day by day. But do please continue to insist that you are right and that they are wrong.
            The majority of Catholics are on my side, not yours, and the numbers are steadily growing. This protest about this bigoted Archbishop is just another example of the trend.

          • Rob B.

            As I said above, truth is not subject to democratic vote. Regarding your obvious glee about the dwindling number of Catholics, the Church has weathered such storms before (indeed, some greater than this) and has come through OK.

            “But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD” (Joshua 24:15).

          • Korou

            Well, of course I am happy if the Roman Catholic Church’s influence is dwindling, as it is a very bad thing for society. But rather than having its bad influence decreased I would be so much happier if the Catholic Church could become a force for good in society. It is possible. Priests come from the laity and the laity’s views are steadily becoming more tolerant, rejecting Catholic dogma. With time, perhaps the Church can be transformed from the bottom up?

            Also, is it really true to say that the Church has weathered its storms? It used to the the most powerful force in the world. Now, who listens to the Church on anything that matters?

          • Dominick

            Perhaps the millennium will also see the abolishment of the law of gravity.

          • AnneG

            Sodomy is one of the four and only four sins that cry out to heaven. It is always an intrinsic evil. I do not know if you are Catholic, but some things never, ever change.
            I don’t know what you are talking about the man in the burning hospital. Another false dilemma, I’m sure.
            Life begins at conception and ends with natural death, marriage is between one man and one woman, sodomy is a sin and God exists. Come, Lord Jesus!

      • Phil Steinacker

        You obviously are a complete ignoramus about Catholic teaching. You pretend to be such an authority so you should be able to cite precisely what doctrines and dogmas the Church has changed over the centuries.

        However, YOU WILL FAIL. Any changes made applied only to what are called common teachings, far lower than dogma and doctrine.

        Your comments are foolishness at its worst.

        • Korou

          Ah. So it’s still Church policy to burn heretics?
          I mean, that sounds like a pretty important teaching to me.
          Tell me, do you believe that people who disagree with the Church’s teachings should be burned at the stake? If not, why not? Because it’s against the law? Why should that matter when it comes to doing what’s right?

    • AnneG

      Treats women abominable? Seems like the only place you find protection for the integrity of women is the Catholic Church right now. Outside, there are a lot of people who try to convince everyone that all kinds of perversions are good for women.

  • Grn724

    Outside influences are driving these actions, we know that. 100 people? Really? My thought is that this is a progressive trial balloon that would only be attempted in the two most leftist cities in the U.S. San Francisco and New York. Expect more of this rebellion against the Church for Christianity will not be tolerated by progressive leftist who also happen to be Catholic. Why? For Christ stands firmly in the way of the progressive agenda.

    • Korou

      Christ was a progressive. If he was alive today he would be doing what he always did – siding with goodness and speaking truth to power-hungry religious hypocrites.

      • Phil Steinacker

        Why don’t you cite someone you know?

        Jesus was no progressive, friend. You’ve been lied to or you have just blasphemed by deliberately appropriating His good Name in service to gross mortal sin.

      • AnneG

        Could you say clearly who the side of goodness is, and who the power hungry bigost are?

  • TheColdHeartQueen

    There are just no words…

    • Rob B.

      Oh, there are, Your Majesty. They just shouldn’t be uttered in public by decent men and women… 🙂

  • ThirstforTruth

    Some of the problem is that people in the Church ( the extreme dissidents) no longer believe in the demand of obedience to the faith. When lay persons were given more responsibility in the Church ( following VII) they seemed to assume more authority came with if. We still need to follow Jesus’ obedience to the Father as perfectly as grace allows.

  • Catharine

    Since these people dissent from just about every single Catholic teaching, and have made peace with the spirit of this world, and with the master of this world, which is to say Satan, they have self-excommunicated themselves. I believe it is long past time that they and other dissenters stopped pretending to be Catholic–they need to formally break with Rome and start their own pseudo-Christian church.

    • Korou

      That would leave an extremely small catholic church. You do realise that most Catholics are on our side not yours, don’t you?

      • Rob B.

        Sadly true. Luckily for all of us, truth is not determined by a show of hands…

  • Sarx Discuss

    You know who else didn’t fit in comfortably with the ambient culture where he was assigned to minister? Jesus.

    • Dominick

      Along with all of His prophets, whose most scathing criticism was often directed towards the priesthood and false prophets for pandering to the people.

      When anguish comes, they will seek peace, but there is none. Disaster after disaster, rumor upon rumor. They keep seeking a vision from the prophet; instruction from the priest is missing, and counsel from the elders. . .I will deal with them according to their ways, and according to their judgments I will judge them. They shall know that I am the LORD.

      My hand is against the prophets who see false visions and who make lying divinations. They shall not belong to the community of my people. . . Thus you shall know that I am the LORD.
      Because they led my people astray, saying, “Peace!” when there is no peace, and when a wall is built, they cover it with whitewash

      The word of the LORD came to me: Son of man, say to her: You are an unclean land receiving no rain at the time of my fury. . . Her priests violate my law and desecrate what I consider holy; they do not distinguish between holy and common, nor teach the difference between unclean and clean; they pay no attention to my sabbaths, so that I have been desecrated in their midst. Within her, her officials are like wolves tearing prey, shedding blood and destroying lives to extort profit. And her prophets cover them with whitewash, seeing false visions and performing lying divinations, saying, “Thus says the Lord GOD,” although the LORD has not spoken.

  • AnneG

    Looks like there has been a lack of clear teaching in the Archdiocese of San Francisco for a long, long time and now, Archbishop Cordileone has an uphill battle. That’s what bishops do. God Bless, Protect and Uphold Him.

  • Hart Ponder

    Stay Strong Dear Bishop!

    Moral relativism is now rampant even in the Church, where God’s standards are ignored for one’s own desires, using God’s grace as an excuse to break his requirements. (CCC 1790-1793). It has been termed as “Loss of the Sense of Sin” (CCC1865).
    Holy Mother, Pray for us!

  • Dan13

    I don’t necessarily agree with the archbishop’s decisions regarding the teachers’ contracts* but these people do know that there is no way the Pope is going to remove him? It actually makes them seem kind of childish, like if you don’t this then we won’t give money to the church. It’s no different than that wealthy person in NYC who told Cardinal Dolan that if the Pope kept talking about economic inequalities then he’d (the donor) would stop giving.

    *If I was teacher in that diocese I’d sign it, but I’d be upset that I was asked to sign it. And to be frank, I don’t care if the French teacher is living with her boyfriend or if the Math teacher is living with his civilly married husband.

  • cminca

    For those of you supporting the Archbishop–these are the instructions, from the USCCB, on the Pastoral Care for people with SS attraction.
    Read this, think about Cordileone’s actions, and tell me if he is practicing what the USCCB teaches:

    “Essential to the success of ministry to persons with a homosexual inclination will be the support and leadership of the bishop and other pastoral leaders. A welcoming stance of Christian love by the leadership and the community as a whole is essential for this important work. This is particularly important because more than a few persons with a homosexual inclination feel themselves to be unwelcome and rejected.

    Sad to say, there are many persons with a homosexual inclination who feel alienated from the Church. Outreach programs and evangelization efforts ought to be mindful of such persons. In areas where there are larger concentrations of homosexual persons, individuals may profitably be dedicated solely to outreach ministry to them; in other areas, ministry to persons with a homosexual inclination should be included as part of overall evangelization efforts.

    Church policies should explicitly reject unjust discrimination and harassment of any persons, including those with a homosexual inclination. Procedures should be in place to handle complaints.”

    (USCCB website)

    The signers attempted to complain according to procedures–those complaints fell on deaf ears.

    • Phil Steinacker

      As long as homosexuals persist in identifying themselves by their sexuality rather than as children of God, they will confuse the above statement. Their straight allies who support that false identity will also read that statement in confused manner.

      “Welcoming” does not mean endorsement and approval of sin. Welcoming can only mean that all sinners are welcome, regardless of the sin, but with the expectation that one remains in mortal sin until sins are confessed, absolution received, penance performed, and repentance genuinely intended.

      Christ said after healing, over and again, “Go and sin no more.” THAT is required.

      But homosexuals – like many straight Catholics engaging in extra-marital sex – do not intend to cease their sin. They demand “welcoming” to mean approval.

      THAT WILL NOT HAPPEN.

      The same applies to all the other buzz words: rejection, unjust discrimination, harassment, etc. These words do not mean what you and your homosexual friends would like to believe they mean. For a guideline you can count on, just remember that Church dogma and doctrine can and will NEVER be changed.

      Remember, too, that Archbishop Cordileone’s first responsibility is to shepherd the faithful by protecting them from sinful influences, and often that means he must protect them from attacks on authentic Church teachings.

      As far as your question is concerned, the good archbishop is doing EXACTLY what he is charged to do, in keeping with both his primary responsibilities as well as those you cite above.

      You won’t see it because you buy into the distorted and twisted meanings to words advanced by the homosexual agenda to destroy the Church.

    • Dominick

      First of all, the USCCB has no teaching authority whatsoever. It’s a working group that can assist bishops administer their own teaching authority. The bishops retain authority over their diocese, and Christ holds the faithful in a diocese accountable to the bishop.
      At any rate, “welcoming” should never be construed to mean “granting license to sin”. No one who approaches Christ from a position of self-affirmation will be saved. The Gospel makes it clear. It is one of the ominous consequences that all mankind holds equal worth before God – the poor and downtrodden are nevertheless judged on the by the same standard as the mighty and proud.

  • David Brandt

    This is not a grass roots movement, it is the result of a small group who are paying a PR firm.

    • Dominick

      And even if it was, consider where grassroots movements vis a vis magisterium lead: golden calves and crucifixions.

      • David Brandt

        Could you flush out the details of your thoughts a little? I am not sure I understand what you mean.

        • Dominick

          As for the golden calf read Exodus 32 (its not long, but would be pretty lengthy in a combox). Notice two things:
          – The people implored Aaron to build the calf
          – God was ready to wipe everyone out.
          – Moses was angry that Aaron had “let the people run wild”
          Pontius Pilate fear a riot if he did not crucify Jesus. It was the priests and the Pharisees that threatened to rile them up, but notice they were using the will of the people as a weapon.
          Also notice that after the exile, God stripped most of the Levites of most of their priestly functions because they had pandered to the people during thetime of the Kings and helped them build idols and high places throuought the land. The lone exception was the Zadokites, who alone retained the priveleges of ministering to the Lord after the reestablishment of the temple.

          • Guest

            OK, so you are saying that even if it was a Grass a roots movement, these types of movements do not necisarily lead to good things.

          • David Brandt

            OK, so you are saying that even if it WAS a “grass roots” movement, that these types of movements do not necisarily lead to good things.

          • Dominick

            That was the idea – at least as far as the “grass roots” dictating things to the clergy goes. Good things can and do originate from the mas body of faithful every day.

  • Nancy

    If they don’t like what the Catholic Church teaches or stands for…go join the Anglican or Episcopal church. They certainly will have all the precepts you think a religion should have.

    • Rob B.

      Plus, they have plenty of empty seats… 🙁

  • Elleblue Jones

    Ah, poor them. The big, bad Cardinal won’t give them what they want! This is an adult version of a temper tantrum. Maybe we’ll get lucky and they will leave the Church to those of us who know and accept Church teachings.

  • AnneG

    Watching Pope Francis I can see that he is very Latino. One thing that he does not like is to be pressured by wealthy people seeking special privilege because of their wealth and influence and threatening him, the Church, priests and bishops to get their way. Even less when it concerns a moral issue.
    This will backfire, severely.

  • eddie too

    satan often comes across as a human being’s best friend. satan loves to put on a friendly face while stabbing you in the back. the same is true of people who confirm homosexuals in their sins. they are doing homosexuals no favors. they are not loving homosexuals. many of them simply do not want to accept the RCC’s teachings on human sexuality wherein not only homosexual perversions, but also fornication, adultery, pornography and masturbation are identified as grievously immoral, socially damaging and psychologically disordered.
    correcting the sinner is a work of mercy.

  • wendyjoseph

    I notice that most of the comments here are from men. Most parishes are fine with having girls as altar servers, and women helping distribute Communion. Do you believe that is wrong? Women played an active role in the early Church, as we do today. We are all equal in the eyes of God, and need to work together. I find the viewpoints here scornful and judgmental. As Christians, we all need to be more charitable. Have any of you contacted any of the signers of the letter and tried to discuss your disagreements with the aim of affirming God’s love for us all? It is much easier to rant online than actively and constructively deal with those with whom you disagree, listen to each other, and try to work things out. You all owe your lives to the women who bore you in their wombs. Ridiculing, scorning, or dismissing the issue is not the answer. Stand up and be men.