Snowballs in You Know Where: Libby Anne Cooks Up a Pastoral Chicken and I Agree (Mostly) with Her

Snowballs in You Know Where: Libby Anne Cooks Up a Pastoral Chicken and I Agree (Mostly) with Her September 9, 2014

I believe that there must be snowballs in the infernal regions.

Today, I am going to applaud and link to a post on the Patheos Atheist Channel.

Libby Anne who blogs at Love, Joy Feminism is a wee bit put off because a “pastor” of some indeterminate denomination (or not) has managed to insult both men and women by reducing men to their most talked about appendage and women to … I can’t even say it.

Let’s just say that in my opinion (and evidently Libby Anne’s as well) this guy is one of those kinds of guys that people tend to refer to as actually being the appendage in question, as in “he’s a d—.” Or maybe, just for variety, they might say, “he’s a d——head.”


The point — at least to me — is that this nano brain is an embarrassment. I had to google him to figure out how he was, and when I did, I discovered that he’s a Really Big Deal in certain circles. His name, in case you’re wondering, is Marc Driscoll. Or, as he seems to be commonly referred to, “Pastor Marc Driscoll.”

I read a bit of his wit and wisdom about human sexuality, and I’m going to assume that he was trying to be … I dunno … cute? Maybe he was making an attempt to address adolescent males about sexuality and decided to get all clever about it. Add the fact that he’s clearly as tone deaf about women as a walking turnip, and you’ve got what we’ve got.

Or, at least that’s what I want to be believe. I want to think that he’s just another open-mouth-insert-both-feet dufus who doesn’t like women and tries to hide it, but who ends up letting it show because he’s unaware of how much he dislikes women. The world is full of these guys.

I said a moment ago that Marc Driscoll is an embarrassment. But I am not exactly sure who he’s an embarrassment to. Twenty-one former pastors of his church (I don’t have a clue how they’re organized, but the story says they have 21 former pastors) have made formal complaints against him for his bullying, intimidating behavior. I suppose they might read this little thingy he wrote and feel embarrassed. But those same pastors also claim that Pastor Marc (as he evidently likes to be called) taught them “sound doctrine.”

So, maybe not. Maybe they think that men are their appendages, and women are the … there it is again, and I still can say it.


Pastor Marc ended up getting ousted from what is said to be a mega church (maybe that’s why the 21 former pastors) from his own organization that he had founded because of his abusive behavior towards these other pastors. Based on my extensive experience with various men like him that I have known in politics, I would guess that if he’s uncontrollably abusive and exhibiting “ungodly and disqualifying behavior” toward other men who are almost his equals in his church, he must be a real treat for the women and girls to be around.

I’ve never known a jerk who wasn’t at least partly an equal opportunity jerk. If he was abusive with the guys, he was almost certainly worse with the women.

Which brings us back around to his absolutely bizarre whatever that he wrote about women, men, appendages and (I kid you not) what God was thinking when He created all of us. It appears that Pastor Driscoll not only knows the purpose for women, which is, it seems, to get laid, but he knows what God was thinking when He created women.

You see, Pastor Marc tells us, God made the male half of the human race with a particular appendage that had nothing much to do. After mulling this over, God decided to make the female half of the human race to give that appendage a “home.” In Pastor Marc’s homiletic,  men are an appendage and women are a purpose for that appendage.

Libby Anne goes on about this in depth and speaks to all sorts of female concerns, including our life-bearing, nurturing selves. She evidently was taught as a child that she was some man’s future wife. If I had been taught that, I’d be mad about it, too.

But I got lucky. I was taught from the get-go by my Christian parents that I could do anything I wanted to do. This wasn’t some pre feminist rap. It was about them, loving me.

I remember when I was a kid, reading a story in The Ladies Home Journal in which the author said that women’s bodies were made so that they could have babies, that having babies was the purpose of the female body. The underlying assumption was that the male body had no purpose except to be a home for men, whereas women … well, you get it. Looking back on it, the article was a dressed-up-go-to-town version of Pastor Marc’s sex ed thingy.

“That’s not true,” my Mama told me. “Your body was made for you to live in it. It’s yours.”

I got my dose of anti-Pastor-Marc early, and it stuck. Which I guess was my good luck.

One benefit of my raising is that when I read idiot commentary like Pastor Marc Driscoll’s, I know right off that it is commentary from an idiot. I also know, due to a lifetime of experience out there butting heads and competing in the open marketplace of full-speed, grown-up politics, that sexism knows no faith or philosophy.

I am telling you the absolute truth when I say that the meanest and most vicious sexists I’ve ever known were liberal men. I say that as someone who self-identifies as a liberal. As for running away from the Church to avoid sexism, you might as well stay home and fight it out. Because atheist men can be vicious sexists, as well.

You’ll find this kind of garbage — and much, much worse — anywhere you go.

I’m not chiding Libby Anne for her opinions. She has every right to them. In fact, I rather imagine that if we could put aside the shibboleths of label, she and I might sit down over lunch and find out that we have a lot of belief in common. I say that after looking down the list of her blog posts and seeing a whole chicken and a pot of things I disagree with.

I just know that women who think that God hates women have often been taught that by people in the church; the kind of people who would tell a little girl that she is not a full person in herself; she is nothing more than someone’s future wife.

I’ve been a wife for over thirty years and I like it a lot, but nobody ever told me my whole purpose for existing was to be a wife. Even now, after decades of sharing my life with my adorable and adored husband, I am not a wife only. Or only a mother. Or only a daughter. I am first of all myself, as is every other human being. You cannot give — to your spouse, your children, your friends or your God — what you do not have. You must first be wholly yourself before you can truly be with and for another.

But that’s getting all philosophical/theological and thoughtful. Which is moving a long, long way from Pastor Marc Driscoll and his bizarro thinking about men and women.

He is, as I said, an embarrassment.

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13 responses to “Snowballs in You Know Where: Libby Anne Cooks Up a Pastoral Chicken and I Agree (Mostly) with Her”

  1. Thanks. This was very good. (No snowballs, because I have actually agreed with several of your posts.)

    While I disagree with you on some points, I always respect the fact that you are honest in your assessment of major figures, agreeing with them or disagreeing based on your internal compass and not based on what “people who are X” are supposed to think (example – Gov Perry and Rs and Ds).

    Read some of Libby Anne’s posts on patriarchy – something tells me you will have the same opinion of it as she does.

      • At the risk of bringing an ice age to celestial weather patterns, the Friendly Atheist has a post today you might be interested in, defending a Canadian catholic family at risk of deportation to Africa. Mother and daughters face genital mutilation if that happens.

        There are some things all decent people can unite against.

        (I would give you a link, but my phone doesn’t cooperate.)

  2. Can we at least agree that growing up thinking I was going to be somebody’s wife and somebody’s mother didn’t have to carry the self-negating connotation you place on it?

    • Of course. How I interpreted Libby Anne’s comment was that she had been taught that this was that she had no choice and no intrinsic value as a her own self. I think most healthy people of both sexes grow up with the idea that they will one day have a family and children of their own and that they look forward to it. That’s a good thing, not a bad one.

  3. I have read many of Libby Anne’s posts and sometimes I agree with her and sometimes I don’t,but I agree with her and you on this subject! Men like Driscoll give all men a bad reputation. i expect we have all met men who have the opinion of just what women are here for, and the fact that this man claims to be a “man of God” makes it even worse, IMO.

  4. Marc Driscoll is very respected in some quarters, so I looked him up a while ago to understand where these people I know we’re coming from. He teaches complimentarity, a woman is an adjunct to her husband and meant to assist him. What I read seems very close to Mormon doctrine.
    Our doctrine teaches that each of us is made in God’s image. Where did he miss that? It just gets worse from there. I hadn’t followed his “fall from favor.” Sounds like people got fed up with it. Thank God but not near soon enough.
    I feel badly for Libby Anne. Apparently she was raised with this and some other abusive heresies.
    Btw, Rebecca, I’m pretty sure you would agree that being a wife and mother are both wonderful vocations and blessing, but we can only fulfill those and all our other callings to the degree we fulfill our transformation and conformed into the Image and Likeness of God.

  5. ((( Because atheist men can be vicious sexists, as well. )))
    I don’t know about you folks but i get so tired of listening to so called professional use cars salesmen who think that they and/or not working for GOD (Good Old Dad) and claiming that the dark is truly the light of GOD… Of course they know “IT” is so because sinner vic told them…
    I hear YA! Who’s sinner vic?
    Please don’t wake sinner vic UP from his hypnotic circle!…
    God Bless

  6. ((( He is, as I said, an embarrassment.)))


    For if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do the same.

    God Bless Peace

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