Unbelievable! Air Force Academy Removes Bible Verse from Cadet’s Whiteboard

Todd Starnes has a pretty shocking and maddening article:

The Air Force Academy removed a Bible verse posted on a cadet’s whiteboard after it determined the posting had offended other cadets, a spokesman for the academy said.

The cadet wrote the passage on the whiteboard posted outside his room. “I have been crucified with Christ therefore I no longer live, but Christ lives in me,” the verse from Galatians read.

Mikey Weinstein, director of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, told me 29 cadets and four faculty and staff members contacted his organization to complain about the Christian passage.

“Had it been in his room – not a problem,” Weinstein told me. “It’s not about the belief. It’s about the time, the place and the manner.”

He said the Bible verse on the cadet’s personal whiteboard created a hostile environment at the academy.

“It clearly elevated one religious faith (fundamentalist Christianity) over all others at an already virulently hyper-fundamentalist Christian institution,” he said. “It massively poured fundamentalist Christian gasoline on an already raging out-of-control conflagration of fundamentalist Christian tyranny, exceptionalism and supremacy at USAFA.”

Who knew that a Bible verse posted on a whiteboard could generate such outrage?

Read the rest here.

This is so sad and stupid.  So, I guess Weinstein believes there’s a time, place, and manner to exercise Constitutional rights?

Well, I guess I agree — the time is now, the place is everywhere, and the manner is “without backing down.”

We have to stand up for free speech!

(By the way, Mikey Weinstein calls Christians in the military “monsters who terrorize.”  With friends like this…. who needs enemies?)

You can see from the photo that the Scripture was erased, but that cadet can rest knowing the Academy can’t really erase the truth.

 [Sign a petition to keep public displays of faith safe!]

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  • Tred

    Would you feel the same way about a non-Christian religious message written in the whiteboard?

    Personally, I don’t see a problem with having the bible verse removed. This is the Air Force afterall, a public institution and one where everyone of all religions and of none should feel welcome, with none being better that the other.

    • Debra Blakley Weasner

      Excuse me but you said it. This is the Air Force. Are there not other prayers or quotes that has God’s name in it? Our nation was founded on the belief in God and the Air Force is part of OUR nation. I am so tired of the non christians and atheists that want to destroy our nation from within. If you don’t like it then write on your whiteboard whatever. Leave the Christians alone.

      • Tred

        Debra, this is not a ” Christian nation”. It was founded on the idea that people should be allowed to practice their own religion or no religion. Air Force members should not have to share your religious beliefs or fear facing discrimination if they do not. Leave Christiians alone? Sure! Just stop acting like your religion holds a place of privledge

        • Debra Blakley Weasner

          This is a Christian nation !! (Unlike what Obama says). Our Pledge of Allegiance ?? Our money ?? Good grief–get a life and catch up on our history !!!

          • Tred

            No it’s not. And your belief that it is sure explains a lot. Just because the founding fathers were predominantly Christian does not mean that this country is a Christian nation.

          • Tim

            The Pledge and our money didn’t originally have the word god on them, Deb. Research some history, they were put there in the 50’s during the red scare.

          • James H Watschke

            Debra, are you joking? I’m a conservative Christian. And I’m also a history student. I would not call this a Christian country, especially not now! It was founded on slavery and the slaughter of the natural inhabitants. This is not Christian in name or practice.

          • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LTQ1hoxrOw Imam Khalid al-Basra

            With America hating kuffr like you us taking over will be easy. Then you will ALL know what it means to be ‘persecuted’, mofos.

            Convert or face the sarif!

  • Steve Z

    Rules are rules. No special treatment for Christians. Would you be equally outraged if it was a quote from the Koran that was banned/erased?

    • ijustgottasay

      If I saw someone post scripture from the Koran, I would probably not think anything of it and figure it is there white board, they can put whatever they want. People are “offended” by the word of God because it calls them to turn from sin and live right. People want to live in sin. They don’t want to acknowledge a God of the universe who holds them accountable.

      • Tred

        There you go again, providing yet another example of why this Is offensive. Christians are not better people or live better lives than others.

    • SSJWZ

      The difference in that is if it was Koran, nobody would say Anything!

    • jasamc

      Yes, as a matter of fact, I would. If they don’t like it, don’t read it, whether it’s from the Quran, the Talmud, or the Bible.

  • LeadFooty

    Not everybody wants Bible verses in their face.

    • ijustgottasay

      How is a Bible verse “in your face” doing anything to hurt you, unless it is causing you to be conscience of the wrongdoings you have done in life. If you don’t believe in it, it should not offend you anymore than someone quoting from any piece of fiction, because to you it is just fiction.

      • LeadFooty

        I didn’t say it was fiction, but I still don’t want unsolicited preaching.

        • ijustgottasay

          Lol. Unsolicited preaching? Heaven forbid you ever drive by a church. They may have unsolicited preaching posted on their sign out front.

          • LeadFooty

            The church is not permitted to post their bulletins inside where I live, which is basically the case here. Nice try.

          • ijustgottasay

            I am not talking about the case here, I am taking about your dislike of “unsolicited preaching”.

          • LeadFooty

            The Constitution’s Establishment Clause prohibits the government from making any law “respecting an establishment of religion.” As this Cadet represents the U.S. and its government, the law applies directly.

          • ijustgottasay

            Again I say, I am not talking about the case. It was a stab at YOU and your silly notion about not wanting unsolicited preaching. Geez.

          • LeadFooty

            It was a stab at me? Is that what Jesus would do?

          • ijustgottasay

            I never said I was perfect. =)

          • LeadFooty

            I guess with round-the-clock instant forgiveness, you don’t have to try.

          • ijustgottasay

            Actually, forgiveness comes from a sincere, repentant heart. It’s not instant as you say. Jesus may have been the sacrifice, but we still have to repent of our sins. God is faithful to forgive us (and to forget the sin), but only if we are truly sorry.

            But nice try on the stab at me. It was clever of you to attempt to turn my own religion against me. =)

          • LeadFooty

            When you’re finished gloating, I’m sure you’ll get to work on creating that sincere, repentant heart.
            Typical.

          • Kris Langley

            Amazing how individuals such as yourself always seem to forget the second part about “or preventing the free exercise…”

            Doesn’t fit the narrative, I imagine.

          • Deanjay1961

            How is the cadet’s free exercise being prevented? He can pray, attend services, have religious parapherrnalia in his room, and talk religion with cadets who welcome it. What part of the requirements of his religion is he being prevented from fulfilling?

      • Tred

        Ijustgottasay, your comment about wrongdoings is sm example of how thus message could be seen as “in your face “. Many Christians think their religious beliefs give them better morals and make them better people than non-Christians. And that’s just silly.

        • ijustgottasay

          How is that silly? I am held accountable by a higher being. Non-believers are only held accountable by the people in the world. People can commit any sort of crime and, if they are careful enough, can get by with it, even with forensic science. Those who get caught barely serve a sentence anymore. Even those on death row will probably never be executed. There is no real deterrent for crime. A Christian on the other hand, or any person who believes in a higher power that holds them accountable, will be less likely to commit a crime because they know every action they do goes unnoticed. They will “slip up” from time to time, because no Christian is perfect, but those that strive to do good will work harder not to. Obviously morals is not limited to Christianity…anyone who has taken an ethics and morality course in college knows morality is not about religion.

          • Tred

            Im thinkng its a good thing that you are worried about a Godup there keeping score and the idea of spendng eternity in a firey hell if that is the only deterrent to crime you can see. That actually doesnt make you a better person by any stretch of the imagination.

          • ijustgottasay

            Well, that just shows how ignorant you are of what the Bible actually teaches. “For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten son, so that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” John 3:16.

            I am not afraid of hellfire. Jesus became sin and the wrath of God, the punishment for all sinners, was poured out on Him. Jesus became the ultimate sacrifice for the whole world. All it takes is sincerely believing in Him. That doesn’t mean you can live your live the way you want to. When you are a sincere Christian, you strive to do what is best because God IS always watching. As a child of God, you want to do good to the best of your ability, because you know he sees. Contrary to what you believe, Christians don’t think they are better. They feel they are called to a higher purpose and they should strive to BE better. We will never be perfect. Only Jesus was perfect.

          • LeadFooty

            According to you. And you can only speak for yourself.

          • LeadFooty

            You are not in charge of determining what constitutes a non-believer and/or how individuals are held accountable for their actions. You are not in charge. Your god is not in charge.

          • ijustgottasay

            Actually, God IS in charge. You just refuse to believe it.

          • Tred

            No, you believe he is in charge. From the bottom of your heart you believe it. It is your everything. We get that. And that’s okay. But not everyone shares your faith. I do not believe in God. I simply don’t. nd that should be okay too. That’s what this is all about.

          • Deanjay1961

            If that’s the case, things are as God wants them to be and we have the government God chose for us (as the Bible states). What’s your beef with God’s choices?

          • ijustgottasay

            I am well aware that nobody comes to power unless God wills it. What’s your point again?

          • Deanjay1961

            It’s silly because there’s no evidence that Christian Americans behave better on average than nonChristian Americans. They certainly don’t stay out of jail at a higher rate than atheists.

    • jasamc

      It wasn’t IN anyone’s face. It was posted flat against his door. He didn’t email it, he didn’t wear it on his shirt. Don’t like what he has to say, don’t read his whiteboard outside his room.

      • LeadFooty

        It was written and put on display for everyone to read.

        • jasamc

          And how is that in their face? There are a great many things written that ate NOT in my face. Further, unless I go to a person’s door, and take the time to read a message posted there, I’m not going to notice it. Just because something is available to be read doesn’t make it “in their face, pushy, or proselytizing. If he had put it on someone else’s door, yes. A poster in the middle of the hall, okay. Giving a speech with it, yup. But this? This is idiots complaining about nothing and even less intelligent mouth breathers agreeing with it.

    • James H Watschke

      In the Air Force we all had these little white boards on our dormitory doors. Some posted pictures, some wrote messages. There was a rule against profanity, but that was about it. If you wanted to read them fine, if not, walk by. Some people wrote religious messages and NOBODY really cared. They were the religious guys, that was their thing. Other guys had their ‘things’, be it sports, movies, hobbies, or just funny quotes. You learn to get along in an environment like that because you’re men and women working and living together. This PC crap was tired the minute it started.

      • Deanjay1961

        I was in the AF as well and that was also my experience. However, it was thirty years ago, and in that time the Academy has gained a reputation for being heavily evangelical Christian and a hostile environment for nonChristians. If the five or so evangelical organizations headquartered around the Academy hadn’t been so successful in converting future officers, something like this probably wouldn’t be an issue. That’s what the conditions on the ground are now.

  • Annie Jacobs

    It is his “personal” whiteboard. He has a right to write. If someone else wants to write “I’m an atheist” fine! If someone else wants to quote the Koran – fine! Point being it is HIS whiteboard. If you are offended – be man/woman enough to look the other way and respect each other – because it’s that respect that has your brother’s back when you need it.

    • LeadFooty

      He posted it in a public area. That’s not OK.

      • Tred

        Right.

      • Kris Langley

        5 gets you 10 that if he posted that he believed he was actually a woman born in the wrong body, in a public space, people such as yourself would be in ecstasy for her bravery.

        • Tred

          Actually that does happen and it’s a difficult thing you wouldn’t wish on anyone. But way to show your true colors with that comment

          • Kris Langley

            And I’m likely in a superior position to make that observation – at 20 years “post” – than you.

          • Deanjay1961

            Still, command would probably have it taken down.

      • gwsjr425

        Finally, you admit the lefts game is to eliminate EVERY vestige of religion in public.

        • LeadFooty

          It’s not a game. It’s our constitution. And it’s a damn good idea. Religion is a private matter.

          • gwsjr425

            Where in that document does it state you cannot have religion in public? WHERE?

            Constitution? LOLOLOLOL you could care less about the constitution you fraud.

          • James H Watschke

            It doesn’t say that any where in the constitution. It only states that we have freedom of religion and the govt. will not establish a state religion. ‘Seperation of Church’ and State, nowhere to be found.

          • Deanjay1961

            Neither is ‘right to vote’ or ‘right to a fair trial’. The Constitution is the beginning of our law, not the end of it. You’ll be grateful it doesn’t favor the majority on religious matters when Christians are no longer in the majority.

          • Deanjay1961

            ‘Public’ is a word with multiple senses. It’s a synonym for ‘government’ for one thing. It is absolutely Constitutional for religion to be out in the open where anyone can see it. It is restricted in some ways that involve the government and especially military personnel.

      • Even If Ministries

        LeadFooty, so that you are not accused of a “double standard” or “hypocrisy,” I would imagine with your reasoning concerning “public areas” that you are also “NOT OK” with “other things” in public areas, right? I imagine that you are NOT OK with gay pride parades (they are in public areas), or with planned parenthood signs and promotions (they are in public areas) . . . In the interest of not being called a biased hypocrite, I assume that you are also NOT OK with “those people” that “post” anti-Christian diatribe on a “public” site such as patheos which has the tag line “Hosting the Conversation on Faith” – – – you surely would not be OK with that, right?!? Of course you wouldn’t . . . .

        • LeadFooty

          Gay pride is not a religious affiliation. Planned Parenthood is not a church.

          • James H Watschke

            No, but they could certainly be found offensive. And isn’t that the real issue? Someone is offended by something he/she doesn’t agree with and has a hissy fit. A grieving mother stakes a cross on the roadside to commemorate the death of a child from an accident. The ACLU steps in DEMANDING justice even though NOBODY has complained at all. REAL, TRUE CASE!

          • LeadFooty

            Whatever the ACLU and roadside crosses have to do with this … and I like Planned Parenthood. Gay pride is also A-OK with me. Sorry you can’t handle modern life.

          • James H Watschke

            The ACLU and roadside crosses are the same story! The ACLU sued to have the crosses removed because they were a public display of a particular religion. And I wasn’t arguing against gay pride or planned parenthood, I just meant that they could be found just as offensive as to some as a bible verse is to others. BUT, regardless of whether one had written something in support of them or scripture, don’t you think ANY of them could just be ignored by those who don’t agree, instead of having a childish fit over it?

          • Deanjay1961

            There is more than one roadside cross story, possibly. The one I’m aware of, the crosses were left on city property for two years, some local people complained, the city took them down, put them back up, promised to take them back down, never got around to it, and someone contacted the ACLU about it. I don’t know if a simple marker would be left up indefinitiely, but it being up or not wouldn’t be a church state issue.

          • Deanjay1961

            The real issue is whether Christians have to follow the same laws and regulations that apply to everyone else.

        • Deanjay1961

          I think he main mean ‘public’ as in ‘government’ rather than ‘public’ as in ‘out in the open’. At least, I hope so.

        • Deanjay1961

          Christians can have parades, too. And can certainly post diatribes on patheos. Even military members. Those situations are not very analogous to a government employee using government common areas to promote his or her religous views. Or irreligious views, for that matter.

    • Deanjay1961

      Yeah, that’ll end well. Good thing unit cohesion is not a concern in the Air Force…oh, wait.

  • JessieJones

    If that guy had the right to post his statements of faith outside of his room than so do Muslims, Buddhists and Satanists (to be clear, the last one repulses me!) We can’t pick which religions get to express their faith in public. It is either all of them or none of them!

  • Roger Edward Harris

    It is OK top offend a Christian because they turn the other cheek. Apply the same rule to just about any other faith, you have committed a hate crime.

    • James H Watschke

      Amen Brother!

    • LeadFooty

      Religious quotes do not belong in public areas.

      • James H Watschke

        Lead Footy, Really, here are a few (just a few) straight out of the Holy Bible, A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, A man after my own heart, Ashes to ashes dust to dust, By the skin of your teeth, Do as I say, not as I do, Either you’re with us or you’re against us, Feet of clay, How are the mighty fallen, Lamb to the slaughter, Like mother, like daughter, Out of the mouths of babes, Pride goeth before a fall, The writing is on the wall, Twinkling of an eye, Wolf in sheep’s clothing, Put your house in order, There’s a time and a place for everything, A drop in the bucket, All things must pass, As old as the hills, Going the extra mile, My cup runneth over, Nursing a grudge, Render unto Caesar, Sweat of your brow, One and the same, A house divided, Eat drink and be merry, Straight from the horse’s mouth, The apple of his eye, The powers that be, Strait and narrow, etc.

        So, Lead Footy, when you see or hear one of these phrases used EVERY DAY from the BIBLE (there are many, many more) you make sure you whine and cry your ACLU lovin’ heart out and tell them just how much they are violating YOUR precious civil rights. Go ahead, see how far you get, who knows, you might just get a medal from our current president.

        P.S. And NEVER forget to let the American citizens know just how much you REALLY love and support them. ALWAYS protest public/city sponsored Easter egg hunts, Christmas trees and Nativity scenes. Nothing helps to remind everyone about their civil rights better than ruining a fun holiday for the kids and old folks.

        • ijustgottasay

          Impressive argument! *claps*

          • James H Watschke

            Thanks, Love the JLA, my daughter’s a huge Wonder Woman fan!

          • ijustgottasay

            Awesome! My 3-year-old loves them all. =)

          • James H Watschke

            Happy St. Patty’s! And a blessed Easter to you and yours.

          • ijustgottasay

            You too! Thanks! =)

      • Deanjay1961

        ‘Public’ as in ‘government’ or ‘public’ as in ‘out where everyone can see’?

    • Michelle Erb

      They turn the other cheek? really? I thought they declared “war” just over people saying “Holiday” instead of Christmas. There is no one whinier than an evangelical Christian.

    • Deanjay1961

      I can’t remember the last time I saw a Christian turn the other cheek. Usually they strike back quick as a rattlesnake.

      • Roger Edward Harris

        May the way the liberal propaganda hate and lies are being thrown out. Maybe we need to. The latest article is how Muslims can wear their religious garb in the military, praise be the lying hypocrite liberals, while practicing Christianity is not allowed. But you should pick a country not founded on Christianity and move there. Practice what you speak. If you don’t, you are just a poor lying hypocrite liberal we need to be sorry for.

        • Michelle Erb

          So Christians are not allowed to wear crosses? There is a difference between what you wear on your person and what you post on government property.

          I am guessing you were for engraving psalms on everyone’s rifles (including non-Christians) while you resent what a Muslim wears on his/her body?

          You need to look in he mirror and realize that the person who hates what America stands for is you. You might want to try Russia, it is becoming the kind of country where you would be happy.

        • Michelle Erb

          What part of “practicing Christianity” requires you to post things in the hallways of government buildings? Please let me know when you cannot gather and pray amongst yourselves, or post what you wish in your own rooms, because I and every liberal I know will stand up for you (while you will continue to even begrudge us the right to wish each other “Happy Holidays”)

  • SSJWZ

    Everynody are whiney weenies. We don’t have grownups anymore.

    • SSJWZ

      Including ‘Mikey’ the supposed leader of supposed ‘military religious freedom’ we don’t have anymore.

    • Tred

      Poor, poor Christians being discriminated against again. It’s a travesty.

      • ijustgottasay

        Poor, poor Atheists being offended by words from a book they consider fiction.

        • Tred

          Atheists, agnostics and non-Christians are not offended by the words. They are offended by the idea that everyone should be Christian and that Christians are better people.

          • Roger Brock

            But they refuse to apply the same reasoning to Muslims who spew hatred at all non-believers (non Muslim) and demand all non-believers be killed in a barbarian manner. Yeah, that sounds reasonable……..NOT!!!

          • Tred

            Roger, do you know any Muslims personally? I’m thinking not.

          • Leslie Martin

            I do know Muslims personally. And it states in the Quran that non-believers are to be put to death.

            “Lo! Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the
            Fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for
            fresh skins that they may taste the torment. Lo! Allah is ever Mighty,
            Wise.” — Quran 4:56

            “Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever
            ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for
            them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the
            poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.”
            — 9:5

            “I [Allah] will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then
            smite the necks and smite of them each finger. That is because they
            opposed Allah and His messenger. Whoso opposeth Allah and His messenger,
            (for him) lo! Allah is severe in punishment.” — 8:12-13

            “Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah.” — 9:29

            “We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve.” — 3:151

            “Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks.” — 47:4

          • Tred

            And do you Muslim friends believe this literally?!!! Mine sure dont. Do they ever show you similar passages in the Old Testament that we roll our eyes at ?

          • LeadFooty

            It’s enough that enough people do believe it seriously and act upon it that national security has to get involved.

          • James H Watschke

            Big difference. Christ lifted the condemnation of the LAW with his death and resurrection. In the Koran this is the final and absolute the word of ‘The Prophet’. If a follower doesn’t believe or takes the scriptures lightly in the face of the modern world he/she is in reality a heretic, not a true Muslim. You can’t have it both ways in a religion of absolutes.
            The infidel, primarily Jews and Christians, MUST die. It’s a free ticket to Heaven if you die in the act of killing them so why not?

          • Tred

            Wow, I guess I better watch my back amongst Muslim friends then! Luckily I don’t think they know their religion still tells them to kill me. You do realize how silly you sound don’t you?

          • James H Watschke

            Actually I’m just telling you what their holy book tells them.
            Read John 8 in the Bible and Saheh Muslim 4206 in the Quran. It goes a little like this. In the New Testament (Christianity)Jesus disperses a crowd about to stone a woman to death for committing adultery on the Sabbath. He said he who is free of sin may throw the first stone. Faced with their own shortcomings they leave in shame and he turns to the woman and tells her to ‘Go forth and sin no more.’ He doesn’t say it was fine that she was messing around with married men but acknowledged her sin also and told her to stop. He showed mercy, love and honesty.

            In the Koran (Islam) Mohammed himself is brought a pregnant adulterer for judgement. He tells her to bear the child and return. She does. He tells her to ween the child, which takes about two years, and return, she does. He then takes her child and gives it to a Muslim family to be raised in the faith and has the woman buried to the neck and stoned to death for her crime.

            Ask your friends about that passage, because, in a nutshell, that’s a good indicator of the difference between Christianity and Islam.

          • Tred

            How about the old Testament James? And do you think Jews adhere to all that’s in there like you claim Muslims do in their ancient stories?

          • James H Watschke

            No, they don’t. After the Romans sacked Jerusalem and destroyed the Temple in 70 A.D. they declared an end to animal sacrifice as they had no temple any longer to preform such rituals in. Regardless, as Jews, who have not accepted the Christ as their savior, they would still be bound to Old Testament law and STILL be required to sacrifice blood and grain offerings to atone for sin and observe various celebrations. So technically the ENTIRE modern Jewish religion is a falsehood because it almost completely rejects the law of Moses. They waited since the time of Abraham for their savior and then rejected him. So God made sure they could no longer function as a true religion.
            P.S. If you read the Talmud they even brag about the crucifixion. Pretty hardcore, if you ask me.

          • Tred

            ” god made sure they could function as a non religion”

            I’m sorry but you guys crack me up with statements like that. It’s both sad and amusing to see religions fight each other .

          • ijustgottasay

            If you actually read the whole Bible, you would realize the Old Testament is there to show us just how much we needed Jesus. The law was impossible for man to follow completely. Jesus was the only one to follow it completely. He became the ultimate sacrifice so it was no longer required of man to make animal and grain sacrifices. Animals were required to be without defect for a sacrifice. Jesus was without defect (sin). He took everyone’s sin to the cross and God’s wrath was poured out on Him. Those who believe in Him sincerely and live to the best of their ability will go to Heaven. Those who choose not to believe will not go to Heaven. That’s a fact. Jesus is your ticket into Heaven. I know yah’ll refuse to believe that because you have hardened your hearts. Christians know that one day every knee shall bow and every mouth confess that Jesus is Lord. By then it will be too late. God will not allow you to repent then. Just like people refused to turn to God in the day of Noah, it was too late once the floods came. People were living normal lives like we do now. People were getting married and having children, but then God flooded the Earth. Jesus is the arc. He is your refuge from God’s wrath.

          • Tred

            I appreciate that you believe these bible stories from the bottom of your heart but I don’t share your faith. And that’s okay.

          • Michael Cummings

            We know Jesus is not a ticket, Jesus is God as he says in John 8:24.

          • ijustgottasay

            Yeah, but no man comes to the Father except through Him. You can’t get into Heaven without Jesus, so He is your ticket in, so to speak. It’s a figure of speech.

          • Tred

            According to your faith. According to others’, Jesus was not God. And some people don’t believe in God at all. We all don’t share your religious beliefs and why would we? And furthermore, that’s okay.

          • ijustgottasay

            Jesus is the very nature of God. He is the word of God made flesh. The Angel of The Lord that is spoken of in Old Testament is in fact Jesus before He is made human. If you read the Old Testament, you will see how the Angel of The Lord does things according to God’s will and nature. Jesus is God in the flesh.

            I know I am wasting my time writing this, but just wanted to clarify. =)

          • Tred

            Sure, and all according to your faith. But not everyone shares that faith. And that’s okay.

          • Deanjay1961

            All that granted, the Muslims can do the same as the Jews did. Many do.

          • Deanjay1961

            He didn’t lift it for the Jews, and they managed to stop stoning people. Funny how third generation American Muslims never stone anyone or saw their heads off. It’s almost like living in a 3rd World barbaric country has more to to with barbarism than the particular religion they follow. That would certainly explain things like the Lord’s Resistance Army.

          • Deanjay1961

            It also say in the Qu’ran that there is to be no compulsion in religion. The OT says to stone apostates and disobedient children yet somehow Jews manager to reconcile with modernity. Muslims can, too. Scriptual cherry-picking is for all boys and girls! Islam has no pope to enforce conformity of interpretation. Islam is in the early stages of reformation. There are many Islams, and outsiders insisting that only the fundamentalists are ‘real’ Muslims serve the interests of the fundamentalists.

          • James H Watschke

            Political Correctness doesn’t apply to Muslims. This was pounded home when George W. Bush, after 911, sat with Muhammad Ali and declared ‘Islam is about love.’

          • LeadFooty

            Muslims are held to the absolute same standard.

          • Deanjay1961

            It’s a fantasy that an atheist cadet or a Muslim cadet would be able to put whatever they want on their whiteboard because they’re not Christian.

          • jasamc

            And how did that phrase accomplish that? If writing something on a white board makes you feel that badly about yourself, when the writing doesn’t even address you, then you have serious issues.

          • ijustgottasay

            It’s just like people posting something offensive on Facebook and someone automatically assuming it was about them because even though it wasn’t they know deep down it applies to them.

          • Tred

            Your religious messages don’t apply to me. I don’t share your faith. But it’s your idea that they should apply to me that’s offensive. And silly

          • James H Watschke

            Psalm 14

          • Tred

            All you have to do is read some of the comments here to see just how Christians feel their faith makes them better people. This is how the message offends. It’s the idea they all should share a personal belief that is offensive …. And potentially discriminatory

          • ijustgottasay

            Give me a break. If you think you are a good person, it shouldn’t matter to you what Christians think or believe. That’s a cop out for your own apparent insecurities. If we were all playing football on two separate teams and you thought your team was good, but we thought our team was better, should that be offensive to you? Sounds like you need to grow up a little and stop worrying about what other people think.

          • Tred

            Says the woman who tried to say Christians are better people

          • ijustgottasay

            I believe those were your words. Lol.

          • Tred

            Nope, yours. You showed your hand throughout this post.

          • ijustgottasay

            I showed my hand? Please. You started it with the whole, “It’s offensive to Atheists because Christians think they are better.” So juvenile.

          • Tred

            And you have given multiple examples in your own writing that you feel this way.

          • LeadFooty

            It’s not up to you to say what should and should not matter. Take your privilege somewhere else.

          • jasamc

            You’re not answering the question. The responses on this thread are directed to someone – the white board message wasn’t. So how does a message on a white board, not directed at anyone, offend anyone other than those perpetually offended by everything?

          • Tred

            The Biblical message was directed to others living in the residence. And not everyone share’s the cadets religious beliefs, nor should they fear discrimination of they don’t.

            All you have to do is read the comments here fir examples of a widely held belief smongst Christians that this is a Christian nation and that non-Chrustians need to be converted to see why the message was offensive to some.

          • jasamc

            Let’s take this apart. First, did you read the biblical quote? It did not contain the word “you”, it contained “I”. He was talking about something important to him, he didn’t say anyone should do anything at all. No command, no hint, nothing. The only person who could take offense at this is someone who was already easily offended by everything and everyone.

            Second, discrimination??? He’s a cadet. He can’t discriminate against anyone, he’s the lowest level person there.

            Third, you are yet again conflating two issues. He wrote this on a board, describing himself. The posts on here are aimed at someone. His board was directed at no one.

          • Tred

            He was expressing his religious belief with the message. Given that Christians feel that they need to lead others to Christianity you should be able to see the problem here. Couple that with the fact that many think this country is a Christian nation and you can see where fear of discrimination comes from in those that are not Christian. What better place to start than at the cadet level to make it clear that ones religious beliefs are one’s own and nothing more.

            What says the most about your own beliefs jasamc us your assumption that people were offended because seeing the verse made them feel bad about themselves

          • jasamc

            No, still not seeing the problem. Are you implying that anyone that identifies themselves as Christians will attempt to convert you? How self centered are you? The world does not revolve around you. The simple existence of Christians does not mean that they are all beating down your door.

            And considering how often you have used the term offensive, then, yes, the assumption has been proven correct. There is nothing else about it.

          • Tred

            Seriously jasamc? Are you actually denying that Christians believe it is their mission to lead others to their faith?

          • jasamc

            Completely agree with you. Lead, not push. Set an example, be open to talk about it, but don’t force the issue. I am a very devout Catholic, and if my students(yes, I am a teacher) ask me about my faith (like when they see the ashes from Ash Wednesday service on my forehead), I tell them. But I’ve also had the benediction and invocation at one of our school functions performed by a Muslim student. If you believe that a Christian putting a quote on a door is offensive because you believe that all Christians want to force you to become one…well, you have bigger issues than can be solved here.

          • Tred

            Ha! You can’t seem to decide whether you are attempting to convert others to your faith or not jasamc!

          • jasamc

            ??? Did your meds wear off?

          • Deanjay1961

            Cadets are not all equal in authority. He was senior and had junior cadets who reported to him.

          • Deanjay1961

            The message wasn’t offensive in itself. The cadet who posted it was in a position of authority and it was in a common area. In the military, officers are supposed to be completely impartial towards their subordinates. Would this cadet be impartial to nonChristians who report to him? Maybe, but the choice to post Bible verses in the common area gives some reason to think not, and a professional officer avoids even the appearance of not being impartial, particularly in matters of race or religion.

          • James H Watschke

            The last thing written by Martin Luther(about Christians),”We are beggars: this is true.”
            Christians aren’t better, they just recognize that we are ALL sinners and everything belongs to God.

        • Kris Langley

          And inspired by someone/thing they call, at best, an “imaginary sky friend”.

        • yepper12

          Do you talk to hear yourself talk? I keep reading your comments and they make about as much sense as obamacare……….NONE!

        • Deanjay1961

          Funny how we don’t seem to be offended by the same words when the government isn’t involved.

  • just a hall call

    Bristol Palin has grown to a beautful soul , Gods grace is at play, your mother
    must have found peace in your maturity. Love of life and its magic is Gods gift to the believers

  • conservativemama

    Control. Always control with the left. Freedom encompasses more than your sex life: abortion, same sex marriage.

    We are living in the Matrix, with an illusion of freedom. For me, the government paying for birth control is not freedom. It’s a payoff for female silence and obedience and acquiescence to all powerful government.

    • Tred

      No one is taking away the cadets freedom to practice his religion. He is not living in fear if discrimination because of his religion.

      Free birth control buys woman’s silence and obedience????? Wow! That’s a pretty cheap deal for the government then given my former $5 monthly copayment! Or even at $30 without insurance. Too funny:)

      • James H Watschke

        Well, according to the article he was only forced to remove it when other cadets and faculty complained. This probably means that if it was not noticed it wouldn’t have been taken down. In the academies there are EXTREME standards to live up to/by. So if public messages contain any profanity or suggestive innuendo they are removed immediately, it’s all about honor and integrity. Pride in oneself, the service, and the nation.
        What I find so INOFFENSIVE about this passage is it’s that it’s so personal. “I have been crucified…. I no longer live… lives in me,” etc. This verse is about one’s personal relationship with God, it’s not saying, “…YOU ALL better sign up with Jesus or YOU’RE going to Hell!”
        But you know how it goes in The World, once the Devil is your master, you can never be satisfied.

        • Deanjay1961

          So the command should allow verses, but then judge their appropriateness?

          • James H Watschke

            I’m just saying that most people I know who have a fit over public religious verse usually don’t take the time to read it or think about what it may mean. They just know it’s religious and want it down NOW because they somehow feel offended. Sadly most of these people seem to have no problem with public, profanity, pornography, violence, etc. But Jesus, GET OUT!

      • conservativemama

        There is no group of women more obedient today than the women of the Left. It’s not so much “put a ring on it” for them, as “give me my abortion.”

        They will even make excuses for the men who leave women to drown in cars, men who are publicly accused of rape, men who use women for little more than a quick hookup, but oh boy, as long as he promises access to abortion, he’s the one.

        Oh, and they’ll wail about the government on their ovaries, but they’ll just as quickly turn over their entire body for “free” healthcare.

        • Tred

          That’s full of nonsense mama. Tell me, did your husband tell you to think all that?

          • conservativemama

            Before I say goodbye and leave you to your comforting thoughts about me, regardless of how boilerplate and tedious they are, you made me laugh. The thought of anyone, even my husband — a very good man — telling me what to think is unheard of and has been for generations of women in my family.

            Ciao!

          • Tred

            Now that’s funny mama! Run along now and make dinner.

        • Deanjay1961

          Care to compare abortion rates of Christians and nonChristians in America?

  • Mark Oden

    as usual, a sad and silly jew pissed off at Jesus.

    • ijustgottasay

      You Atheists have a complex all your own.

      • ijustgottasay

        Just because it doesn’t go on in the U.S.A doesn’t mean it doesn’t go on elsewhere. What’s your point again?

    • James H Watschke

      And as usual a bigot ready to point it out. We ALL crucified him on that mountain 2,000 yrs. ago. I know far more GENTILE atheists/agnostics (I used to be one) who get their panties in a wad over Judea-Christian free speech than I’ve ever heard from Jews.

      • Tred

        That might be because Jews are not discriminated against now whereas agnostics and atheists are. Christians, particularly fundamentalists, should take a page from the Jewish book and stop trying to push their faith on others.

        • James H Watschke

          Agnostics and atheists? That’s news to me. What do you consider discrimination, someone who speaks in disagreement?

          P.S. If you mean by ‘pushing’ a christian getting in your face and yelling that you are going to Hell, I tend to agree. If, on the other hand, you just mean someone just asking if you believe in/know Jesus or politely inviting you to Church, I’d have to differ.
          Matthew 28: 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

          You see, if we REALLY believe ‘that old book’, we don’t have much choice. Tact, on the other hand, is up to the individual. Happy St. Patty’s!

          • Tred

            By pushing I mean believing it is your mission to ” save ” me. I don’t need to be saved and I find this disrespectful.

            Yes, agnostics and atheists are discriminated against. Think not? Hmmm…. What do you think the chances are of an agnostic being President? ( I have no doubt it will happen eventually, but not yet ) Why not?

          • James H Watschke

            I’m sure you already know this, but Christians can’t save anyone, only God can. But as Matthew states, it’s our imperative, we’ve just got to spread the word. And as Christ said, the World will hate us for loving him So, just politely say no thanks, if they get belligerent, I sympathize, but it’s USUALLY just youthful idealism.
            P.S. If you look at the way our current president has misused scripture, trying to quote verses in order to get the rich to pay higher taxes, and outright LIED about the bible in order to appease certain leftist voting blocks, I can guarantee you the man is NOT a Christian. I don’t know what he is, but certainly not a Christian.
            Just because you claim to be something, doesn’t mean you really are.

          • Tred

            Well we all know how open the bible is to interpretation. If our President says he us a Christian, then I for one am not going to say hes not.

            But you still have not answered my question. What are the chances of an openly agnostic candidate becoming President in current times? No need to answer. It’s a rhetorical question meant to give you some food for thought as to how much agnostics and atheists are discriminated against in this country.

          • James H Watschke

            I honestly don’t know. But I would much rather vote for an agnostic/atheist I agree with politically than a politician who CLAIMS some brand of religious faith for the purpose of getting into office and acquiring votes. Only God truly knows a man’s heart, but I’d have to say that I can’t think of one president since I’ve been alive, 1969, who walked the walk along with the talk. Maybe Carter, he was honest to a fault.

          • Tred

            So you’d rather vote for an agnostic that claims he’s an agnostic than for an agnostic who pretends he’s not. That wasn’t my question.

          • James H Watschke

            I know. But not too long ago they claimed our country wasn’t ready for a minority or female president either. Things change. And Jesus loves you.

          • Tred

            And I agree with you that it is only a matter of time before most Americans don’t judge a person based on their religious beliefs or lack thereof. Just as most Americans no longer judge a person by the color if their skin, their gender or sexuality. But we’re not there yet. There is still discrimination.

            If it makes you feel good believing your god loves me that’s fine. Just know it means nothing to me. And that should be fine too.

          • James H Watschke

            Happy St’ Patty’s!

          • Tred

            Cheers!

          • Deanjay1961

            I’ve never met anyone who hates Christians for loving Jesus, and I’ve met hundreds of atheists. When people DO hate Christians, that’s not what for. Although I think it is a mistake to actually hate any large diverse group, they’re not all allike, It’s almost always a case of unfair overgeneralization.

        • Deanjay1961

          I know Weinstein is getting on, but him getting beat up at the Academy for being a Jew isn’t exactly ancient history.

  • Eleanor Bisick

    It is a personal statement that he is making, not a blanket statement that takes in the whole student body…so If your belief is different, or you do not believe, why does it create such animosity…This is America..there is a guarantee to religious freedom…accept that or kindly get the h out!

    • LeadFooty

      The handbook states that personal statements are personal – not written on a bulletin board in a public area.

  • All_American_American

    Where was P*ssy Weinberg when Maj Hasan was giving powerpoint presentations at staff meeting espousing muslim supremacy? Where was P*ssy Jewstein when Maj Hasan was telling his fellow military coworkers that islam was supreme and islamic soldiers had a duty to murder American soldiers?

    Where were you then you big fat P*ssy? Oh that’s right, muslims shoot you when you piss them off. Christians turn the other cheek.

    • LeadFooty

      I am sure he was fighting the good fight just as he is doing in this case.

      • James H Watschke

        Fight the Good fight. Hmmm. Apostle Paul. 2 Timothy 4:7 minus 10 points for paraphrasing scripture on a public forum.

        • LeadFooty

          That is purely your opinion.

          • James H Watschke

            Well I’m not sure of the actual point system, but 2 Timothy 4:7 reads as follows, ‘I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith’ It’s where we get the term ‘Fight the Good Fight’. Like it or not the Holy Bible is the most quoted and paraphrased book in Western civilization. Not to mention pluralized from. It’s the cornerstone of western literature, no matter what our liberal, Marx spouting, college professors might claim.

          • Deanjay1961

            So, you agree with Richard Dawkins on this subject.

          • James H Watschke

            What did he say about it? I find Dawkins to be an interesting character and in some ways ‘supportive’ of Christianity. For instance, a couple months ago on Bill Mahr’s current show both he and Mahr agreed that they are not afraid to poke fun at or even insult Christianity because there will be no violent reprisal. Sure, people will disagree, some with very un-educated, un-Christian comments, but for the most part there is little true antagonism. But they are both terrified to do the same with Islam for fear of their lives, even in America. When uber-leftist Michael Moore tried to disagree they shot him down pretty hard. Obviously, as an atheist, Dawkins doesn’t agree with any religion, but at least he’s somewhat honest about his encounters with the groups and their members.

    • All_American_American

      What’s wrong f@ggot? Truth hurt? Oh, and tea bagging is what you do for funsies in the Castro District on the weekends.

      • Michelle Erb

        So yesterday I was banned from responding to this comment. Love how this type of thing stays but a polite response can’t even post.

        • Michelle Erb

          Maybe because I used the word “moderator”?

          • Michelle Erb

            I tried to point out that she must really be a loving christian to leave things like this but delete anything liberal. I got a message that my post needed to “be approved by Bristol”

            Just lovely people here.

    • Michelle Erb

      You need to tell my great-grandfather how christians turn the other cheek. Oh no you can’t. He was murdered on Christmas day, in America, by some kind Christians who called him a “christ killer.”

      Of course those Christians no more represented the majority of Christians than Muslim terrorists represent the billions of Muslims in this world.

      • All_American_American

        Tell me, in the 90+ years since alleged Christians allegedly killed your alleged great-grandfather, have you had any positive interactions with Christians?

        You kooks take the cake. Not only is this post contradictory, but you don’t even understand that as a Christian, I don’t compare myself to other Christians. That’s where you kooky kook atheists make your biggest mistake.

        Anyway, tell me, looking at Christ and Mohammed as purely historical figures, compare their messages and then assess—if a Christian kills a non-Christian in the name of Christ, is he doing what Christ taught? If a muslim kills a non-muslim in the name of mohammed/allah, is he doing what mohammed/allah taught?

        Now, I know you’ll never say anything bad about islam cuz like I said, muslims will literally kill you for it. You atheists are not only kooks, you’re spineless cowards as well.

        • Michelle Erb

          I have had positive interactions with the majority of Christians and Muslims that have crossed my path. I am not afraid to state that all organized religions have brought evil into this world. Do you really want to battle over which has done more harm?. Christianity has been used to promote slavery, pogroms, inquisitions, the holocaust, crusades, child marriage, polygamy, and making rape victims marry their rapists. You claim to worship a god who is “jealous” who commits mass murder through floods, who teaches that one should destroy the children and even the animals of their enemy.

          Even in this modern time, Christianity has been used to support a “kill the gays” bill in Uganda. If you want to assert that Christianity does not actually support any of those things, I will back you all the way. Most Muslims say their teachings do not support killing non-believers.

          By the way I am not an atheist. I just believe that whatever created the universe was far greater than the petty jealous “god” of the Bible. Any being that could create all that would not reward someone who acts like a dick but claims to believe in him, over someone like my husband who does not belive in a god but is one of the kindest most caring people you will ever meet. In your eyes if Hitler accepted Christ before he died he would get salvation, but if someone does good all their life but was never even exposed to the Bible, they burn in hell. That is pretty childish.

          • All_American_American

            You say you’re not afraid to say all religions have brought evil into the world, then you rant for 3 paragraphs on the evils of Christianity. You certainly do like the contradictory posts.

            You have a warped view of Christianity. (You guys should really update the ol’ talking points). That and I think you have it confused with islam. Like I said, atheists are kooks.

            Anyway if you have a problem with God’s rules take it up with Him. You’ll get that chance one day, we all will. You can keep being angry about it, or accept it and be free. Good luck.

          • Michelle Erb

            Well I certainly do not have to tell you about the evils of other religions. Your problem is you only see the good in Christianity and the evils in other religions. There are billions of Muslims in the world. It must suck to have to hate every single one of them.

          • Michelle Erb

            Just pick and choose whichever things are convenient for you – then pretend that you live by what the bible says. That is the best way to make yourself feel superior to
            other people.

          • Deanjay1961

            Aboput 1.6 billion Muslims currently, to be precise.

        • Deanjay1961

          That reminds me, Weinstein was hospitalized the second time he was beaten up when he was a cadet at the Academy for being a ‘Christ-killer’. I wonder if that is where he got the impression that all is not well for nonChristians at the Academy?

    • Michelle Erb

      Bristol, Does this make you proud? These are the people you have been courting.

      I would love for patheos to explain to me why “P*ssy Jewstein” has been here for four days but anything questioning Bristol’s motives gets deleted?

      Don’t get me wrong, I think its important for Bristol’s “fans” to know with whom they are associating. But please don’t delete rational responses.

      • All_American_American

        :…(

    • Moviesforlife

      Go screw yourself, Teabagger.

  • $3838536

    Following Obama’s directive, Chuck Hagel has pushed a three-point agenda at Dept. of Defense: promote atheism, sodomy in the ranks, and women on the front line of combat. Protecting the country & the Constitution are at the bottom of his list.

    • Tred

      Really???? Ending discrimination based on sexuality and religion and you call than ” pushing” certain sex acts and a belief that God does not exist. Really??? Btw Stoneyjack, are you aware that heterosexuals engage in sodomy too?

      • James H Watschke

        Sorry, that wouldn’t qualify as a Christian girl in any form.

        • Tred

          James perhaps you’re unaware that just because someone’s religion disallows something, doesn’t mean they dont do it. Christian girls get abortions too.

          • James H Watschke

            We’re all sinners. Men who CLAIMED to be Christians justified racial slavery and slaughtering the natural inhabitants of this country. And yet it can’t be justified by scripture. Unless, of course, everything is really relative. Then it’s a free-for-all.

          • Tred

            Exactly my point. Christians engage in all kinds of behavior you claim is against scripture. And you still call them Christians …. Of some form

          • Deanjay1961

            Christian girls get most of them.

    • Michelle Erb

      ..

  • Doug Livermore

    I’m going to respectfully disagree with the theme of this article. I actually believe that USAFA did the right thing by forcing this cadet to remove biblical references from a common area (the barracks hallway). As a future officer and leader, this cadet should understand that such displays constitute undue command influence and could make future subordinates (non-Christians and atheists alike) quite uncomfortable. As servicemembers, we surrender certain constitutional rights in order to better serve the Republic. Would you feel the same way if a cadet were displaying passages from the Koran or atheist ideology in a common area? Had the cadet chosen to display these passages in the privacy of his own room, then no problem. Doing so in a public area (the barracks hallway) came dangerously close to proselytizing. The military has chaplains to see to the religious and spiritual needs of servicemembers. Officers and other leaders must always be mindful of what impact or unintended influence their actions could have on those placed under their charge. If the cadet wants to display biblical passages in his own room, that’s completely within his rights. Just my $0.02 as a ten-year Army veteran and Special Forces officer (and a West Point graduate).

    • LeadFooty

      Bravo!

    • 1MiddleRoader

      Well put, and thank you for your service.

  • geo

    Let us set aside for a moment the fact that Mikey Weinstein is a hideous excuse for a human being, and focus on the phrase “cadet’s personal whiteboard”.

    If it is, indeed, a “personal whiteboard”, then what kind of mewling d/ouc/he/bag registers complaints about an innocuous Bible verse which motivates the cadet whose board it is?

    So, what are we supposed to see on these boards? “Have A Nice Day”? With hearts and smiley faces?

    What is frightening here, aside from the obvious freedom of expression issues, is that these overly sensitive little candyasses are destined to be officers in the United States military.

    God, save us all.

    • LeadFooty

      Anybody who cares about being lectured-to by religious bigots can and should complain about it. It’s anti-American.

      • geo

        “Lectured to”?
        lol
        Poor things!
        Forced! Forced! To read the passage on the cadet’s whiteboard.
        No way! Incapable! Of averting their offended, crying eyes.

        These will be some EXEPTIONAL officers.
        Leadership qualities! To be certain.

        Our future! Is assured.

        • Deanjay1961

          How would learning to turn a blind eye to possible violations of AF regulations make them better officers?

    • Deanjay1961

      Funny, when I was in service, I had a whiteboard, and never had the impression I could put anything I wanted on it, because I was in the freakin’ military, for pity’s sake!
      Let them put what ever religious crap they want up and watch the inevitable consequences follow: the hallways of the academy turned into a verbal battleground of religious confrontations that will destroy unit cohesion. The worst thing that could happen to Christianists in the long run is for them to get what they want. There’s no separation of church and state in most of the post-religious European countries, that worked out great for Christianity.

      • geo

        The clear impression given was that if the cadet had written “Go Team Blue!” or “It’s a Grrrrreat Day to Be a CADET!” on his board, then the complainers would not have ratted on him.
        If a cadet is free to write personal messages on their boards, then the only rationale for complaining about this particular one is intolerance and anti religious bigotry.

        And no, I would not want bigots as officers in the U.S. military.

        • Michelle Erb

          Pretty much the same standard that we have in all of our other public schools. You will see a lot of signs in school hallways supporting the school team and saying it is a “great day,” but none praising Allah or saying “god is dead.”

          Separation of church and state is for the protection of both the church and the state. If the state ever did pick a religion you might not like the one they choose.

          • geo

            “Separation of church and state…”

            Well, my mistake then.
            I was not aware that a cadet’s personal viewpoint was tantamount to state imposed religion.

  • Palin ECoalition

    It seems to me that the name of Weinstein’s organization is a misnomer. His goal is to squash religious freedom of Christians.

    • LeadFooty

      Seems to me that Christians think they can control everybody around them. This is America, not Rome.

      • jasamc

        Yes, as evidenced by his keeping his message on the board…oh wait.

        • Tred

          No, as evidenced by people here crying its unfair that he couldn’t keep it on the whiteboard.

          • jasamc

            And they are controlling, or attempting to control, whom? We are simply pointing out that wimpy people kvetch about idiotic crap.

          • Michelle Erb

            You mean like someone wishing them “Happy Holidays”? I hear there is a fortune to be made off that kind of whining.

          • Michelle Erb

            Muslim community center managers and Holocaust survivors simply can’t understand what poor Christians go through when they see a Christmas tree being called a “holiday tree.”

    • Michelle Erb

      Jews and atheists will fight for your right to worship Christ in your
      homes, churches and private businesses. While you begrudge us the
      simple right to say “happy holidays”. All we ask is that when we are
      fighting for our country please don’t engrave your psalms in our weapons
      or post your beliefs in our public halls. Not asking much.

      Keep in mind that a messsage about the crucifixion does not seem so benign to everyone. Millions of people have been imprisoned, tortured and murdered under the accusation “christ killer,” or for refusing to convert to
      Christianity. Keep that in mind when you choose to hold billions of Muslims responsible for acts of a small percentage.

    • Deanjay1961

      The religious freedom of Christians in America may not exceed the religious freedom of nonChristians. An atheist cadet writing that ‘God is not real’ would rightfully be required to remove that message as well. It’s not discrimination to have to play by the same rules as everyone else.

  • colint

    I am not religious. I see nothing wrong with this board. No one is FORCED to read it.
    This is a government school. If cadets were FORCED to read a religious message that would be unconstitutional.

    • Tred

      How about engraving Scripture on gun sights used by US Marines? Do you see something wrong with that?

    • Deanjay1961

      It’s a military school. Personal messages are taken off whiteboards by command all the time, and the only justification they need is that it might disrupt unit cohesion.

  • http://yahoo.com john norton

    *****

    • http://yahoo.com john norton

      **__** The Governor Posted this herself a while back,… !

    • Michelle Erb

      So we can stop drilling for oil then.

  • 1MiddleRoader

    Actually, when you join the Air Force Academy, you voluntarily do give up the “time, place and manner to exercise Constitutional rights.” You give up some of your free speech right, for example, by not being able to bash the President (at least while in uniform). I think the Air Force handled it correctly, by having the cadet remove the verse, but not punishing the cadet (as Wienstein wanted). I think Gen. Mark Welsh, the Air Force’s chief of staff, says it best: “We remove hundreds of quotes from those boards, because they’re not in their room, they’re in the hallway. They’re used for both personal and professional messaging, just to make sure we all understand that context…You have to get the facts right on every one of these cases. And try and stay unemotional until you know what happened, I would not believe an article by Mr. Starnes, for starters.… I know there are cases when he has not had his facts right in articles. I would be happy to explain them to you, with him in the room.” http://www.nationaljournal.com/defense/is-air-force-losing-its-religion-20140314

  • 1MiddleRoader

    Off-topic, but isn’t it funny that there’s no war on St. Patty’s Day? Guess we can all come together over green beer! Cheers!

  • Brent Cassolino

    Enough how can we stand up for him

    • Deanjay1961

      Stand for for whom? The cadet in question apparently agreed it was inappropriate for him to post a Bible verse like that, given his position of authority over cadets who might not be Christians themselves. It’s important for an officer to not even give the appearance of discrimination.

      • Brent Cassolino

        And what would have happened to his carrier if he said” no sir you are wrong and I won’t take it down”. If he thought it was wrong “and why would he” it is not logical that he would have put it up in the fist place.
        From my HTC Amaze 4G on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network

        —– Reply message —–

      • Brent Cassolino

        So what your saying is you can’t have an opinion about anything someone else might not agree with.
        From my HTC Amaze 4G on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network

        —– Reply message —–

      • Brent Cassolino

        Talk about intimidation.

        From my HTC Amaze 4G on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network

        —– Reply message —–

      • Brent Cassolino

        If anyone was worried about discrimination this is it. Who else had there rights violated. Knowone
        From my HTC Amaze 4G on T-Mobile. The first nationwide 4G network

        —– Reply message —–

  • Betsy

    Lt. Col. Denise Cooper used to be my CO. I am disappointed by where she stands on this, but it definitely is a ‘teachable moment’. Just not in the way she means!

  • James H Watschke

    Were they Christians or Jehovah’s Witnesses? Mormons? Big difference.

    • Tred

      Oh no! Did you just say there is a big difference between Christians and Mormons??!!!

      • James H Watschke

        Well, yes, we believe in completely different gods and forms of salvation. Look it up. You may as well say a Buddhist is a Hindu. Now I’m not saying they aren’t valid religions from the stand point of the U.S. constitution/govt. but they are certainly not the same deal.

        • Tred

          Would a Christian have any issues with a Mormons faith?

          • James H Watschke

            We don’t agree with it, if that is what you mean? According to scripture salvation can ONLY be found through faith in Jesus Christ. They preach a different Christ that the bible does not. They also preach a different Father and Holy Ghost. Even their Satan, being Jesus’ brother, is a completely different character than scripture teaches.

  • David Chappell

    I don’t want to sound like a liberal but freedom of religion is ok but one does not attract people to the cause of Yeshua by pissing people off. Lets learn to share the good news in a way that may attract those we love and friends and all people by following Yeshua’s way of living a righteous live and setting an example. That doesn’t mean shut up and feel free to speech up but be respectful and diligent with sharing the message. Humble your self’s before man and watch what happens just by living your faith. You do that and they will see god in you. God Bless You All Oh and Yeshua is Jesus’s Hebrew name. I prefer to use that name. Thank You.

    • Duane D.

      So what about Galations 2:20 is offensive to anyone who does not have a chip on his shoulder? Paul uses a first person personal pronoun. There is not even a “thou shalt” to be found.
      Co-dependent much?

      • Michelle Erb

        But millions of people do have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to the crucifixion for good reason. When millions of your ancestors (including some still living) were imprisoned, tortured and murdered under the accusation “christ killer,” or for refusing to convert to christianity, people get a little sensitive.

        Jews and athiests will fight for your right to worship Christ in your homes, churches and private businesses (while you begrudge us the simple right to say “happy holidays”). All we ask is that when we are fighting for our country please don’t engrave your psalms in our weapons or post your beliefs in our public halls. Not asking much.

        • Duane D.

          Dear Michelle, our businesses are not our own. We have to serve everyone the government says we have to serve, according to their demands, not according to our sincerely held convictions.

          • Deanjay1961

            First you had to serve Jews, then blacks, now you even have to serve gays. It’s government oppression, I tell ya!

      • 1MiddleRoader

        But allowing the innocuous Scripture opens the gate to allowing the “thou shalt”s. You’ll notice that Bristol is not defending the specific quote; she’s defending “free speech” and exercising “Constitutional rights”.

        • Tred

          When it comes right down to it what the blog writer really is complaining about is how Christianity is holding less and less of a privileged position in our society

  • Grant A Dodrill

    The Christian Religion is a Parody on the worship of the Sun, in which they put a man called Christ in the place of the Sun, and pay him the Adoration Originally payed to the actual Sun. Baaaaa you foolish little sheep .

    • JoeB

      Really??? Please explain your thoughts on Islam too… if you have the testicular fortitude.

      • Duane D.

        No, Christians intentionally go into harm’s way to share the gospel of love and peace, to the peril of their own life and safety. Atheists go to the government to demand redress of hurt feelings.

        • pasta65

          So stupidity is a virtue?

          • thinkingabovemypaygrade

            You’re applying eisegesis here…Pouring in the implication you believe into Duane’s comments. Research the Bible for yourself!

          • pasta65

            I’ve read it. It hasn’t aged well.

        • Michelle Erb

          If you think no one who has refused to convert to Christianity has been tortured and killed for it you need to study up on the Inquisition. It is an important part of your history, and it explains part of the reason why our forefathers though it was so important to keep church and state separate. They also wanted to protect the church from government interference. Those are the principles we are standing up for. So quit your whining.

        • Deanjay1961

          Atheists expect Christians to follow the same rules that apply to everyone else and Christianists expect to be able to flout them without repercussion because Jesus told them not to render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s. That must be what he said, right?

      • Grant A Dodrill

        My thoughts on all organized religion are, that they are as real as the phrase “testicular fortitude” and are actually a form of slavery.

        • JoeB

          So, you don’t have the “balls” to put your vial thoughts down on paper. You can attack the Christain religion but when it comes to criticizing the “religion of peace,” you are gutless. Perhaps you fear the retribution of Islam. Or, perhaps you feel the it is easier to assault those that turn the other cheek. Either way, you are a small minded, insignificant, speck and you opinion holds no merit.

          • Deanjay1961

            Christianity isn’t a ‘religion of peace’ either. Islam needs to be muzzled by being deprived of secular power the way Christianity was, the sooner the better.
            I’d like to meet a Christian who turns the other cheek. You’d think Jesus taught them to ‘hit first, and often’ and ‘be quarrelsome with the non-believers’.

        • thinkingabovemypaygrade

          Grant, suggesting you investigate and read the Bible for yourself. Whether “organized” or “informal” we all have some kind of view of reality, the universe, etc. It’s key to determine what is true… The Bible claims…that Jesus’ death and resurrection opened the door to God for us…and that rejection of Jesus’ dying for our sins is a permanent death…now and when we die.

          Start by reading the Gospel of John…you could probably type it in the computer and find it.

    • ijustgottasay

      Sure it is. Funny how in the Old Testament, God isn’t too fond of the Israelites when they abandon Him to go worship things like the stars.

      • thinkingabovemypaygrade

        You need to read the whole story – He calls back the Israelites…and when they repent, God does restore them…(As God still does with all who follow Him today) One of the many reasons I see the Bible as God’s word is…it contains such embarrassing situations in both the old and new Testaments (Unlike, for instance, ancient Egyptian history…apparently the Pharaohs wrote most of their own history…which was like a Hollywood press release). Good resource…Read the Bible at biblegateway.com

        • Michael Cummings

          But Acts 11:18 clearly says repentance is granted (if we have repentance). As, clearly, we are saved by “the faith of Christ” (if we are saved) Gal 2:16.

      • Malcolm Alexander

        The Old Testament is the book of the law. (Read the OT book-Ruth 4 v6.) And the kinsman said, I cannot redeem it for myself, lest I mar mine own inheritance: redeem thou my right to thyself; for I cannot redeem it. (Italics added) Under the LAW, it is an unbending life. That’s why Jesus came into the world, to redeem us by the shedding of his blood. In doing so, by believing on His name, we are dead to the law of sin and death alive through His Grace. Everyone likes to accuse under the law but in Christianity, we are dead to the law and yet, we obey the law and even if we sin, we are already forgiven. Christ’s shed blood covers our sin and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. The sacrifice has already been made that is full and sufficient for us. Just remember that the LAW is the schoolmaster that brings us to realise that we can never fulfil the law as given by God. When we come to that place that we realise that, we realise that it is only GOD’S grace that we shall be saved and by none of our efforts or works. And it is ALL of God. I am who I have become and are becoming because of God’s work in me. David defied and sinned against God. He arranged so another man would die in battle so he could marry that man’s wife. But David knew the secret- genuinely seek forgiveness and God will forgive. David was one of God’s greatest servants.

    • Renie Laster Keen Roseberry

      How do you explain that everything that has been Mentioned in the BIBLE Up To This MINUTE Has HAPPENED (and will happen in the FUTURE}. Care to EXPLAIN?

      • Michelle Erb

        You mean how all there is just one flat planet with heavens above? WTF are you talking about? The Bible does not contain one piece of “knowledge” that the people of that time did not believe to be true.

        Fortunately we have evolved beyond supporting slavery, killing the children and animals of our enemies, having multiple wives and concubines, and making rape victims marry their rapists. Too bad the “morality” of the Bible is still allowed to hold us back in so many other ways.

    • thinkingabovemypaygrade

      No…the English word for Sun sounds like the English word for Son (as in Jesus, Son of God). The other connection was when people decided to replace the pagan sun celebration (held in December) with celebrating the birth of Christ (The Light of the World). This is a principle called “dynamic equivalence” by some.

      • thinkingabovemypaygrade

        Also, Christianity (including the Jew…Jesus) comes out of historic Judaism. Which is quite different from paganism.

  • Exodus2011

    GOOD JOB on the Fight Back Airforce Cadets!

    #BeClingers ————–> #AmericaRISING

    • Renie Laster Keen Roseberry

      Stand Up For GOD and AMERICA. PEOPLE WAKE UP.

      • John Gallagher

        Your god can’t stand up for itself???? Must be a puny god.

    • James H Watschke

      What fight back? They whine like little girls about a white board they could have just ignored. Pathetic. If these are the officers our military is producing, I’m glad to be out of the service.

  • Sistersun

    Stay true to your beliefs!

    • Renie Laster Keen Roseberry

      What the heck is the Muslim/Islam belief {In OUR AMERICA} where they Butcher Rape Burn and KILL People for just about any and everything. YES – this OFFENDS ME! Don’t like our beliefs – go Back where You Came From. If we disagreed with your beliefs in your Countries we would be KILLED after being tortured. again go home. STOP TRYING TO CHANGE AMERICA. obama you should be IMPEACHED.

      • Tred

        Renie, you know America doesn’t belong to Christians right? And not all Muslims are extremists.

      • Michelle Erb

        Kareem Rashad Sultan Khan was awarded the Purple Heart and Bronze Star. He was 20 years old when he died in Iraq. He was fourteen years old at the time of 9/11, and he waited until he could serve his country and he gave his life.

        How about we keep people like him here, and those of you who want a theocracy find a christian country were you can impose your views.

        • Duane D.

          Michelle, You do have a chip on your shoulder don’t you?
          I’m sorry someone has hurt you!
          I wish they had not rejected you.
          There are many who claim to be Christians, who have a very bad idea of how to present their Christ, and so deeply hurt those who do not know my Jesus. For example the Westboro Baptists.
          Jesus was there for you when you were hurt, but you did not see Him there. He was there on the cross 2,000 years ago seeing all of the abuse and pain and saw you get hurt. He wants you to know that He loves you; not just in an affectionate way, but in a committed way that will not allow anything touch you that will keep you from Him, nor will He protect you from words that might draw you into Him. He loves you in a committed way that made Him walk his life here, not turning his path from accusations, from spitting and striking and shame: shame brought upon Him from every people, race, religion, and background, from every single person.
          And He will embrace you now, if only you will allow Him.
          Peace

          • Deanjay1961

            Nothing like a Christian telling you why you hold your opinions to make you feel like they really understand you.

      • Moviesforlife

        You’re a bigot like the Palins.

  • bbnnmm

    Isn’t it sad that religion is supposed to be about the fostering of LOVE for one another in human beings and yet so much hatred and intolerance is brought to the forefront when someone tries to present that message of LOVE?? Amazing!
    Matthew 10:
    34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

    “‘a man against his father,
    a daughter against her mother,
    a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
    36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’
    Go figure! GHU!

    • James H Watschke

      You always have to weigh scripture against other scripture. Christ was talking about the division that would be caused by the truth being revealed. Most people can’t handle the message of Christ, not because it’s ‘too deep’ or complicated, but because they are comfortable in their lives of sin and indifference. Relativism is the Devil’s playground.

      Matt 24:“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake.

      Read that verse, think about it. Then read ALL of the comments against this cadet. Read about the legal actions against him. Jesus always know what he’s talking about.

      P.S. 1 John 4:8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

      • Tred

        And some people simply don’t believe in God. Or they dont believe that Jesus was the son of god. Your religious beliefs aren’t everyone’s. And that’s okay

        • James H Watschke

          True, which is the beauty of the 1st Amendment. We can believe as we wish in America. And I still stand by God’s and my words above. Once again, first amendment.

    • Michelle Erb

      The crucifixion has not always been used as a message of love. While it is mostly about love these days, many are still sensitive that the crucifixion and accusations of “Christ killer” have been used to torture, imprison and kill millions of people.

      People should be able to serve their country without having Christianity imposed upon them. While a lone message on a whiteboard is benign, it could be seen as part of what is a massive campaign to impose evangelism within the military. Someone has to make sure that while all soldiers are given every opportunity to practice their religion, boundaries are maintained to protect everyone.

      It is not too much to ask that he move the message to inside his dorm room, and share the “good word” with those who CHOOSE to gather with him to study or pray.

    • Deanjay1961

      I bet Weinstein felt the love when he was hospitalized the second time he was beaten up at the Academy for being a Jew when he was a cadet.

  • http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJBG9zqKlqSMeoGWk8Sabog iizthatiiz

    Thank you Bristol for focusing attention on this issue. Important stuff, more folks should be aware of.

  • Stephen Johnson

    The verse is still there. Something below it was erased. Fake story.

  • thinkingabovemypaygrade

    So much for a mild freedom of expression. Didn’t insult women, wasn’t racist…but Mr. Weinstein apparently sees any christian expression as an intense evil. (wonder what he thinks about the christians who support Israel against those who want to overrun Israel or decimate it???)

    • LeadFooty

      Christian expression should be kept private.

      • Deanjay1961

        I agree only in the sense of ‘not public’ as in ‘not using government resources or seeking government endorsement’. Christians who are private citizens have every right to express themselves’ in public’, out where people can see and hear them,

    • Michelle Erb

      You think American jews are supposed to be grateful to the evangelicals who have decided to embrace an extreme party in Israel to the detriment of American foreign policy as well as Israel itself? Don’t think you are fooling anyone into thinking you are doing it because you love jews. We know about your end of the world vision and the role you think Israel plays in it.

      • Duane D.

        So it’s ok for Palestinians to fire rockets at buses and Condos in Israel?

    • Michelle Erb

      It is not the Christian expression that makes it an evil, it is the constitutional violation. When it violates the separation of church and state it needs to be relocated to protect all of us.

    • Deanjay1961

      As a graduate of the Academy, former AF JAG and former legal counsel to the Reagan administration; Weinstein knows the applicable laws and regs backwards and forwards. His attitude towards Christianity is irrelevant if those don’t back him up.

  • Malcolm Alexander

    When Martin Luther posted his protests on the church door it created outrage that shook the world as well as the established church. Under Questioning at Worms, he refused to deny what was truth and said: “Here I stand, I can do no more, so help me God.” Well, here we stand.

    • James H Watschke

      He also challenged the Catholic church to debate based on scripture alone. They refused.
      Atheists/agnostics (The World, as Christ called them) hide behind legalities that also don’t exist. Like the basis to defend this action in the Constitution.

      • Deanjay1961

        Luther also wrote; “Therefore be on your guard against the Jews, knowing that wherever they have their synagogues, nothing is found but a den of devils in which sheer self­glory, conceit, lies, blasphemy, and defaming of God and men are practiced most maliciously and veheming his eyes on them.”
        Perhaps it’s no coincidence that Lutheranism was the largest religious sect in Germany, circa the 1940s.
        The Air Force’s own policies forbid this sort of foolishness. It’s a danger to unit cohesion. Keep watching and see.

  • S Davis

    Get up and print that verse on the wall again….

  • 1MiddleRoader

    While I personally found nothing the least bit inappropriate about the Bible verse, allowing it on the public hallway sets a precedent for a whole slew of inappropriate quotes from the Bible, Quran, etc. Would Bristol defend a quote from the Quran about killing infidels? Suppose Bristol gets an Air Force boy friend and they’re walking down the hallway and a whiteboard on a door has the Bible quote about stoning adulterers or illegitimate children not going to heaven. Do you think Bristol would defend that? Suppose the whiteboard across the hall from a cadet who just got divorced displays the quote about what God has put together let no man put asunder? Who decides which religious quotes should be allowed and which shouldn’t? This particular issue seems relatively easy, compared to others involving religious expression in public areas. There apparently were some 30 complaints,(mostly from Christians); the solution is to post the quote on the other side of the door.
    Bristol says, “We have to stand up for free speech!” but when you live in an Air Force Academy building, you abide by their rules. It’s free speech to post a “No Fat Chicks” on the door of a private residence, but you can bet if that were posted on the whiteboard it would be taken down immediately and the cadet would be reprimanded. And rightly so.

  • Michelle Erb

    I am sick and tired of some Christians claiming to be victims when they are the ones demanding special privileges. This cadet had the same right as anyone else to post whatever he wanted in his own room but not on public property. I realize that many of you have never lived in a dorm, but the purpose of those whiteboards is to leave messages for each other when someone is out not to make religious or political statements. We all know that none of you would be complaining if it had been a positive statement about Mohammed, or an atheist claiming that there is no god or a Jew claiming that Jesus was a false Messiah and worshiping him is a violation of the first of the ten commandments. You would be screaming that they should be taken down and you would be right because it is a government area and would not promote camaraderie. If it were a Muslim you would probably also be clamoring for them to be thrown out of school and maybe even the country.

    This is just like when a private company had the gall to engrave a psalm about Jesus in the rifles that all soldiers used. It would be anathema for a Jew to have to carry a rifle that declared Jesus to be lord. Yet when the psalms were removed you cried victim. Likewise it is not enough for you that you have the right to say “Merry Christmas” wherever you want and put up religious decorations on your homes and churches and shopping malls. You need to bring them in the public land, and force non-Christians to wish other non-Christians “Merry Christmas” because somehow saying “Happy Holidays” is an attack on you.

    You call yourselves patriots but you hate all the things that make America so special. Might I suggest that Russia is quickly becoming the kind of country where you would feel comfortable.

    • Tred

      Sarah Palin was appalled when those bible verses had to be removed from the marine rifles too Michelle.

    • Michelle Erb

      ..

      • Duane D.

        You are wrong! Anti-Christian messages are everywhere, and Christians tolerate all speech. This is a private message board, if you don’t like the message, don’t read it!

  • tonya

    Once they run all the Christians out of voluntary service, they will have to institute a draft to get enough people to serve.

    • Michelle Erb

      You do realize that most of the people who complained are Christian. Camaraderie and respect for the brotherhood just mean more to some than others.

    • Michelle Erb

      We will definitely need a draft if we let some evangelicals bully everyone who does not believe exactly what they do. That is why we have to keep vigilant. This cadet probably did not mean any harm. But, when some get an inch they take a mile. One day it is posting scripture in the public halls the next they are engraving psalms on non-Christian’s rifles and bullying or refusing to promote anyone who wont pray with them.

      Most non-Christians will fight for your right to worship Christ in your
      homes, churches and private businesses. While you begrudge us the
      right to say “happy holidays,” or to even build a house of worship. All we ask is that when we are fighting for our country please don’t engrave your psalms in our weapons or post your beliefs in our public halls.

    • Deanjay1961

      Christians will have no problem at all, and the military can do without the Christianists.

    • James H Watschke

      If I remember right, and it wasn’t THAT long ago, MAYBE 1 in 10 that I served with were ACTUAL Christians. I’m not talking about the people who say, ‘Yup, sure, I believe in god’ and then go out drinking, screwing, and partying and can’t finish one sentence with at least one f-bomb either. No that was the OTHER 90% of the military that I belonged to (although not many of us even ‘believed’ that much in god, I was an atheist). The Christians, the real ones, who lived by the Word, were very few and far between, like in the civilian world.

  • qtdb7

    Freedom is never more than one generation away from
    extinction. We didn’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It
    must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do
    the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children
    and our children’s children what it was once like in the United States
    where men were free.
    Ronald Reagan

    • Michelle Erb

      Yes we need to continue to fight for our freedom of and from religion. Some are forgetting the lessons of the past and the vision of our forefathers and ignorantly claim that this was established as a “christian nation”. How soon we forget what happens when the church has too much influence over the government- The inquisition, crusades, pogroms, dark ages etc..

      • Michelle Erb

        Separation of church and state protects the church as well:

        • Tred

          So true Michelle. This country was not and is not a Christian nation. It is nation where people are free to practice their own religion or not.

          • Duane D.

            Right! So someone can write on a board outside of their room, and no-one gets injured, no-one dies, no-one is forced to go to church.

          • Deanjay1961

            Outside their room, which belongs to the government, possibly in violation of regulations, and certainly sending a message that cadets who report to this person and are not Christian may not get treated the same. This ‘revolt’ is an example of the danger to unit cohesion which is the reason to keep religion disputes out of cadet hallways in the first place.

  • Tred
    • 1MiddleRoader

      Awaiting Todd Starnes’ article on this…. :)

      • Tred

        Yeh, right……

        All this blogwriter’s whining us about how Christianity is not being given privileged status in this country.

    • Deanjay1961

      Applying the First Amendment to military personnel is a bit tricky. They are under orders and are one of the enforcement arms of the government. Their Constitutional rights are curtailed in some ways…but even private citizens don’t have the right to use government property to send religious or anti-religious messages. That is something they may be allowed to do, but there are rules that apply.

  • danfromtx

    Fake – ass Christian Bristol Palin trying to hustle a buck, always.

  • BlackJack Charles

    Shut the fuck up.

  • Tred

    An extremely timely article on the subject of do-called persecution of Christians.

    http://www.salon.com/2014/03/16/the_ultimate_guide_to_debunking_right_wingers_insane_persecution_fantasies/

  • Tred

    OT, but

  • Deanjay1961

    Maybe Weinstein’s attitude toward the AF Academy has been colored by his hospitalization the second time he was beaten for being a ‘Christ-killer’ when he was a cadet there. Perhaps he got the impression that nonChristians weren’t treated even-handedly there…a leap, I know.

    • Michelle Erb

      But… But… It is American Christians who are under attack because sometimes people say “Happy Holidays” and do not make all the public school children sing about Jesus.

      • James H Watschke

        I’m a conservative Christian and I don’t really want my kids singing about Jesus or praying in school. We do that in church and at home. My church, Lutheran Church Missouri Synod came to America to escape the state run, and favored, churches in Europe in the 1850’s. The state is too ignorant and arrogant to teach the three ‘R’s’ let alone try and include religion. I really don’t want my kids reciting some watered down PC prayer written by a D.C. bureaucrat that is supposed to offend nobody and pleases just as many. I don’t mind Christmas pageants and such, but not serious religion.

        • Michelle Erb

          You make sense, and I think most people agree with you. I do not understand the Palin type attitude that they want that stuff in the schools and the shopping malls. They must assume that their specific beliefs would be taught. Recently Bristol posted a complaint that one public school did not have “enough”” religious music in their pageant. Her fans pulled out their victim cards and agreed.

          What is bewildering to me is that anyone who professes to be a religious person would be encouraging Christmas to become even more commercialized. I am pretty sure the original message was not about shopping malls and car commercials, regardless of whether they use the word “Christmas” or “Holiday.”

          • James H Watschke

            I do have one question though. First I really don’t care if store employees are forced to say ‘holidays’ over Christmas. Most I’ve talked to would prefer to say Christmas but hey, you got to pay the bills right?
            Anyway, don’t you think it’s just a LITTLE hypocritical for department stores and others to be decked out from top to bottom in nothing but CHRISTMAS decorations and promotions from October through December, wall-to-wall glitter, stars and reindeer, but then their employees CAN’T say Christmas?
            We’ll advertise Christmas. We’ll sell you Christmas. We’ll bash you over the head (figuratively) with a mass of lights and tinsel. But we wouldn’t want to offend any nice people who DON’T celebrate the Christmas, so we’ll just say ‘Holiday’.
            Hypocrites, one and all.

          • Michelle Erb

            But very few of them “only” sell Christmas stuff, and those that do have always said Christmas. There are so many other holidays during that time, including New Years. I am not aware of any stores that forbid the word Christmas, rather it used to be that they encouraged employees to say holidays to make all of their customers feel welcome. By your logic would it not also be hypocritical to only recognize Christmas and not the other holidays they sell products for?

            However thanks to the Christian bullying (including a declaration of “war”) most actually say Christmas now. So you even have non-Christian owned stores, with non-Christian employees wishing merry Christmas to non-Christians . Seems like it dilutes the message of Christ to me.

            You do realize that when someone wishes you “Happy Holidays” they are wishing you well and including Christmas as well as New Years? How can anyone possibly resent that?

            I always appreciate when someone sincerely wishes me a Merry Christmas, even though I celebrate Yule. I recognize the kind thoughts, and I always return the exact sentiment, since I now know what they celebrate. However, I have had people actually say to me, “I know you do not celebrate Christmas, but this is America so Merry Christmas” That is not kind. See the difference?

          • James H Watschke

            Although it’s rarely happened, when it does as you mentioned,’…but this is America so Merry Christmas’ I kindly point out the first Amendment I served to defend. Then I usually mention that Jesus loves them, because he does. Love that First Amendment.

          • Michelle Erb

            No one said they do not have a Constitutional right to be jerks.

            My point is that some so called Christians choose to be offended when others wish them well but fail to use their preferred language. On the other hand just because someone says “Merry Christmas” does not mean they mean it,

            I would love to see Christians start to focus on what should matter.. Because the few of you that are jerks are really making the others look bad.. Fortunately some of us still know better.

            Anyone who sincerely wanted to spread the “good word” would not do so by purposely offending people. Some people are just pathetic narcissistic bullies with victimization complexes (Sarah Palin).

          • James H Watschke

            Right, like Sarah Palin, and the Rev. Phelps. The ones the media parades in front of the world and screams ‘this is Christianity!’ Or maybe the Mormon church funding measure 8 in California?
            Get on the internet and look up disaster relief or foreign aid given to the poor and hungry by American churches, you find hundreds of examples. Paid for by Christian donations and NOT tax dollars. Is that what the media shows, even FOX? Nope? They all just want the big headlines and ugly stories of priests raping little boys. I’m not saying these stories shouldn’t be told, they should, but let’s be a little fair. Sorry if I sound like a VICTIM.

          • Michelle Erb

            Of course you are right about the media. But most of us still make judgments based on the people we encounter in our every day lives. Since FOX news became so popular I am afraid that I seem to be encountering far more of the type who walk around with a chip on their shoulder and seem to want to pick a fight.

            But when it comes to charity, I often work with Christian organizations, because I know who can get things done. Were I susceptible to adopting organized religion you can be sure it would happen because of the people who have shown me an example of their faith through their actions, not those who have condescendingly or angrily told me what I must believe.

            Do keep in mind though that many successful charities are not Christian at all. There are tremendous secular charities. Jewish charities also do tremendous things for people of all faiths, even though Jews are only a small percentage of the population. Moreover, these days many huge charitable success stories are entirely secular, because of the power of the internet and social media.

          • Michelle Erb

            Here is a rant from Dan Savage after he read Palin’s “Christmas” book:

            I was never a “happy holidays” guy. Christmas was a big deal in my home growing up, and it’s a big deal in the home I share with Terry. December is Christmas. I’ve always wished people “merry Christmas” without really giving it a thought. Ho-ho-ho.

            But that’s over now.

            Sarah Palin and Bill O’Reilly and Fox News and the Family Research Council and the woman who allegedly punched another woman outside Walmart earlier this week for saying “happy holidays” instead of “merry Christmas” managed to break me of the “merry Christmas” habit. I suspectI’m not alone. This constant bitching from the right about “happy holidays”—a perfectly lovely expression that embraces Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, Boxing Day, Pancha Ganapati, New Year’s Eve, New Year’s
            Day, Hanukkah, the Epiphany, Saint Nicholas’s Day, Hogmanay, Twelfth Night, and Kwanzaa—has made one thing clear. Not that there is now, or ever was, a war on Christmas. But that saying “merry Christmas” is an
            asshole move. Just as conservatives made patriotism toxic during the Vietnam War by conflating it with blind obedience to authority (“My country, right or wrong!”), modern conservatives have made “merry
            Christmas” toxic by associating it with Christian fundamentalism, religious intolerance, and the politics of imagined persecution.

            Unfortunately, the war on Christmas is a game Palin and O’Reilly and Fox News and the Family Research Council can’t lose. The more they complain about people saying “happy holidays” instead of “merry Christmas,” the fewer people will say “merry Christmas.” This will be held up as proof that the war on Christmas is real. But people like me
            aren’t replacing “merry Christmas” with “happy holidays” to be “politically correct,” as Palin insists in the introduction to her stupid book, we’re doing it because we don’t want people to think we’re assholes.

            So happy fng holidays to you, Sarah. I hope you choke on a cinnamon bun.

            Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to run some of these Christmas cookies over to the Jews across the street.

          • James H Watschke

            ‘…so called Christians choose to be offended when others wish them…’ kind of like those cadets who chose to be offended when they could have just walked by. I know I used to live in military dorms.

          • Michelle Erb

            I do not completely disagree with you. Knowing no other facts, I would have ignored it. However, there has been a worrisome trend in the military of Christianists really taking hold, forcefully evangelizing, engraving psalms in everyone’s weapons, pressuring all to join prayer groups etc. So I suspect they were trying to hold a constitutional line.

            The difference from the Happy Holidays thing is that there is a constitutional issue. If he had written it on a government board, in a class room, no question constitutional violation. If he had put it inside his own room, no question free speech, free exercise of religion etc.

            So knowing nothing else about the atmosphere I would have let it go. But I do find it interesting that so many cadets did complain, including Christians. Which suggests that there is more going on there than we are aware of.

            If it is true that this cadet had authority over others and they needed to leave notes on his whiteboard to conduct dorm business, I do think the message was inappropriate, and he should have known better. If not before he wrote it, then certainly after he was informed by his superiors that it was inappropriate and not conducive to unit cohesiveness.

            The cadet was also a jerk to go public about it. Having to move the quotation to the other side of the door, hardly makes him a victim, or affects his free exercise of religion. He well knew that the right wing would turn this into a cause celebre in their phony Christian victimization propaganda.

          • Guest

            So it is not enough that Christmas is included in “Happy Holidays” you will call people hypocrites unless they exclusively acknowledge Christmas and snub everyone else?

          • James H Watschke

            Zoom! That went right over your head! Mind if I just assume you’re an atheist who feels ‘victimized’ by my Christian oppression?
            What I thought was clear was that the stores OVER emphasize Christmas for TOO long, and it seems longer every decade, in order to make more MONEY. But then, don’t allow their employees to say the word because they might offed someone!? Would you decorate your house from top to bottom with ghosts, pumpkins, and monsters on October 31st for the whole town to see, but then forbid your kids from saying Halloween because it might offed some fundamentalists?
            if they REALLY cared about offending their customers they’d tone down the decorations and X-Mas promotions a bit too, don’t you think?

          • Michelle Erb

            But few people are offended by the term “Merry Christmas” though it seems out of place to wish it to someone when you are selling them a menorah. The stores originally started saying Happy Holidays to be more inclusive, even FOX news used to sell “Holiday” items on their website. Who would imagine that Christians would be offended by an all inclusive term that included them, but, failed to omit others.

            Then propaganda mongers such as FOX news and Sarah Palin saw a money making opportunity and decided to recast a gesture of inclusiveness as a “War on Christmas.” Lemming like, there are now “Christian” groups that actually count and compare the amount of times that the words “Holiday” and “Christmas” are used in catalogs.

            Please try to keep track of who has been claiming to be the victim here.

            p.s. if people stopped buying all that junk they would stop stocking so much of it.

          • James H Watschke

            Michelle, I wasn’t calling you, but ‘guest’ the ‘victim’. And yes, both Palin and FOX stir up this mess to get the process going, it’s painfully obvious. But you also have to admit, if Palin(and Rush, and Hannity, and Beck, etc.) and Fox are doing it from their end, ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, etc. Oprah, Obama, Hillary and the left are just doing the same from a different angle on their end. Anyone who actually believes in any of these political parties
            (left or right) or news outlets or celebrities is a fool. I vote independent, I go to a church which REFUSES to talk politics from the pulpit.
            P.S. People have ALWAYS said Happy Holidays, at least as long as I can remember. It was a matter of choice. My problem is forcing people to say whatever out of the sake of the almighty PC. We should know as decent, law abiding citizens NOT to swear in public or use racist/sexist comments. We shouldn’t need some do-gooder Hollywood/Washington phonies telling us what and who not to offend.

          • Michelle Erb

            Actually since this “war on Christmas” thing started, Democrats like Obama have gone out of their way to say “Merry Christmas” as often as possible. I have not heard one leader stick up for “Happy Holidays” in the last few years. Democrats always wimp out in the face of fake right-wing outrage. Yet the right-wingers still bitch if they think the white house Christmas card does not use enough religious imagery, even when it is uses the same type of traditional symbols as the cards sent out by previous Presidents (or the cover of Sarah Palin’s “Christmas” book).

            I suspect we can all agree that no one should be forced to say Happy Holidays in general. However, do you really have a problem with a commercial enterprise deciding what face they want to present to the public? Initially they trained employees to say Holidays since you can not trust every random checkout person to decide which greeting is appropriate in every individual circumstance. They chose inclusiveness not to be “politically correct” but because it was good business. Keep in mind that just about every word a store clerk or someone who answers a phone for a business is supposed to say is pre-scripted. Telling them to say “happy holidays” during some parts of the year is the same as telling them to say “good morning thank you for…” at other times.

            However, since the whole “war on Christmas” spiraled out of control, retail establishments do not seem to give the same advice anymore, out of fear that an employee will complain to the press and stir up a boycott.

            When I ran one business I had an employee who would proselytize to my customers. Since I want all my customers to feel comfortable, I told him that was not appropriate. When he started whining about free speech, I pointed out that he was welcome to go out on the curb and talk about whatever he wanted, but while you represent my business I have the right to tell you what is and is not appropriate within the four walls (or while you wear the uniform etc).

            I would also have told employees to stop talking about politics or even sports if I thought it would make my customers uncomfortable, even if I agreed with every word that employee was saying. Do you not think business owners have such a right?

          • UnemployedMusicTeacher

            You make some good points here.

          • James H Watschke

            Yes I think they do have such a right. I recently replaced an employee who was so confrontational, especially considering religion, he had the entire office want to hang him. The problem was that the job requires special licencing and clearances and qualified people are hard to find . So you tend to get stuck with these types for a long while. Luckily we don’t deal with customers, that’s a different section, and we could park him on grave shift.

            Take a look at this, it comes across as a little nutty, but the message is right on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCKMm7cETZ8 Jesus Loves You!

          • Michelle Erb

            Loooveed It! This should go viral next “war on Christmas” season!

            (As an aside, not sure the post office thing was true. I got cards with Jesus stamps this year. Did a quick web search and saw there was a “holy family forever stamp” the year before and did not see anything about this past year at all.)

          • James H Watschke

            Glad you liked it Fisk has about a hundred of those on various Christian/Lutheran subjects. He’s a minister and author in my (overall) church and quite popular. Happy Easter!

          • ijustgottasay

            I guess we should all stop buying batteries at Christmas then. Walmart always has a Christmas themed display case for their batteries.

          • UnemployedMusicTeacher

            I am not offended by the word “Holiday.” Christmas is a holiday, so is Hanukkah or Ramadan. Depending on my knowledge of your beliefs I will wish you a “Happy (insert holiday) as appropriate, but do not ask me to stop also wishing you a “Merry Christmas” if I so choose.

          • Michelle Erb

            Who is asking you not to say “Merry Christmas?”

          • UnemployedMusicTeacher

            The hypocritical aspect comes from marketing and “selling Christmas,” (because it makes financial sense) but then being afraid to say “Christmas.” No one is asking to “snub everyone else.” But I do think the owner of a business no matter what
            RELIGION, they should have the right to greet their customers with whatever greeting they chose. And their customers can choose (or not choose) to continue shopping there.

          • ijustgottasay

            You’re so right. I worked at Walmart for four years and they deck those halls like crazy, but want you to say Happy Holidays instead. It’s crazy. One year though, they wouldn’t allow Christmas music to be played because they did some marketing survey and people didn’t respond favorably for having loud distractions, like music and announcements, being made over the intercom, so they didn’t play music that year and limited announcements. I guess they changed their minds the next Christmas because they were playing music. It’s probably because the economy isn’t great and they knew it was in their best interest financially to get people in the Christmas spirit.

          • James H Watschke

            Amen! It’s all about the free market and the (un)holy $$$$.
            Jesus must be spinning in his everywhere. Omnipresence, you know.

          • UnemployedMusicTeacher

            I don’t think anyone “wants Christmas to be MORE commercial.”

          • Michelle Erb

            SARAH PALIN: “Well, I hope you read the book because I`m not saying it’s way too commercialized. I love the commercialization of Christmas because it spreads the Christmas cheers, the most jolly holiday obviously on our calendar. It`s wonderful.”

    • James H Watschke

      I was an atheist when I was in the military. For the most part, this was not the academy but the enlisted ranks back in the Reagan era 80’s, the Christians (about 10% of the workforce or less) kept to themselves at work regarding their beliefs unless they were asked. And even though they would try and ‘missionize’ friends and others off duty, most were not pushy as they understood they knew rules and regs regarding sex, race, religion, etc. Sure, one or two would be a bit belligerent, but not taken seriously.
      If this occurrence did happen to Weinstein it was at the hands of very un-educated ‘Christians’ who understand nothing of the faith, most likely on purpose. It’s tragic that such people tarnish the belief, Rev. Phelps of the Westboro Baptist church comes to mind.

  • Jeremiah Johnson

    The further wussification of America. God help us.

  • Kristy Patullo

    So much for religious liberty. Ridiculously stupid.

    • Jog

      Actually that what this IS about. The freedom to practice whatever religion you believe in, or not practie one at all. Religion is a personal matter. Not everyone shares the same beliefs. And no religion should be given a privledged position.


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